/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>620920

Slavery of Jesus time and the abuse of africans as slave of the 16th to 19th century have little in common. Study history my friend. It was more akin to minimum wage job of today where all you can afford is to live by. They provided the slave with food and housing and he was free to move about, he wasn't chained. Sure it is a low status position, just as it is now with minimum wages. Most often the slaves were paying back debts with work

>>620926

god wants us to suck it up and obey?

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would show to Christ. 6And do this not only to please them while they are watching, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart}.…Ephesians 6:5

>>620927

Yes, like Christ, who was the most powerful, richest, had everything, literally God, did not consider it robbery to let it all go, become the lowest of all, poor, a slave, spat upon and crucified. The servant is not greater than the master. So if the master submitted and humbled himself even to a cross, how much more are we to submit

>>620937

Only God is in charge.

>>620937

What is convenient about having power in a godless age?

>>620937

Whether or not something is convenient to someone and whether or not it is true are completely independent questions and to mix the two is an act of willful ignorance caused by concupiscence.

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's. Be good to the people who serve you and depend on you. If others aren't and they call themselves Christians, point it out to them and, if they refuse to change, leave them. That is all. God will judge the remaining people.

>>620937

Pick up your cross.

>>620920

Slavery is different when practiced by different people at different times

>but couldn't be bothered to give an opinion about slavery, even when confronted directly by it.

<Who, thinkest thou, is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath appointed over his family, to give them meat in season. Blessed is that servant, whom when his lord shall come he shall find so doing. Amen I say to you, he shall place him over all his goods. But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord is long a coming: And shall begin to strike his fellow servants, and shall eat and drink with drunkards: The lord of that servant shall come in a day that he hopeth not, and at an hour that he knoweth not: And shall separate him, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Mt 24:45-51)

<But which of you having a servant ploughing, or feeding cattle, will say to him, when he is come from the field: Immediately go, sit down to meat: And will not rather say to him: Make ready my supper, and gird thyself, and serve me, whilst I eat and drink, and afterwards thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant, for doing the things which he commanded him? I think not. So you also, when you shall have done all these things that are commanded you, say: We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which we ought to do. (Lk 17:7-10)

The Lord here and elsewhere lays great emphasis on being a good servant. So yes, He does say " a word" about it. He just doesn't say anyhting that agrees with your rational and logical postmodern sociopolitical opinions.

>>620927

>god wants us to suck it up and obey?

Yes, because ultimately it is obedience to Him. The point is that it teaches obedience to God. If you can't even submit to righteous (although abusive) authority, how can you submit to God?

Why do you deserve not to suffer, and to do so for Him, when He suffered for you?

>>620937

>isn't that convenient for those in power?

Convenient how? It might be convenient if the kind of submission desired by wordly powers were that offered by Christians, but it's not. If it were, Christians wouldn't be constantly attacked and chastised for it. Christians are indeed supposed to respect worldly authority, up until the point where you are asked to do something contrary to the Faith, at which point you can defer to God's authority alone, and as such, especially these days, there is much to object to.

Slaves were usually criminals or prisoners of war back then. Even so, in the slave states of the US, you would have been better off obeying your master than defying him as the latter would only get you killed.

>>621099

>righteous

>abusive

pick one

Muslim conquerors are righteous authorities if they don't force you to disobey God blatantly, but would many be willing to submit to them today if the implementation of their rule suddenly came about? Is so then you got a point.

>>621138

>>righteous

>>abusive

>pick one

Both

<And he entered into the hall again, and he said to Jesus: Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer. Pilate therefore saith to him: Speakest thou not to me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and I have power to release thee? Jesus answered: Thou shouldst not have any power against me, unless it were given thee from above. Therefore, he that hath delivered me to thee, hath the greater sin. (Jn 19:9-11)

I concede that "lawful" should have been the word to use, but the point stands.

>Muslim conquerors are righteous authorities if they don't force you to disobey God blatantly, but would many be willing to submit to them today if the implementation of their rule suddenly came about?

Probably, though it's not so much a case of "they're good if they don't make you disobey God". It's more like they are good if they help to increase or strengthen your faith, since all human authority, whether used for good or ill, comes from Him alone.

In Europe it seems like only a matter of time if things carry on as they are, and regarding the "convenience of submission" that you mentioned in another post, I think that the unthinking, apathetic freeman of today who values nothing is actually a greater service to the powers that be than a Christian slave could ever be.

>>620937

That is becuase those in power are burdened with the weight of responsability, in theory, they shoudln't be abusing their power and should be leading the people in a just and righgeous way. The more you are give, the more God expects from you and your judgement will be harsher.

>>620937

If Christian theology of submission to worldly powers was convenient why were the romans so angry about it?

>>621176

Christians are only bound to submission of wordly powers if the Government does what he is supposed to do.

"Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to the king as the supreme authority, or to governors as those sent by him to punish evildoers and praise well-doers." 1 Peter 2:14

Bow down to the Emperor and acknowledge his supposed godlike nature is idolatry and shall not be tolerated by any Christian.

>>621176

Because we recognize only one King, and Judge, and Law-Giver, and will never bow down to a pathetic mortal filled with sin who is an offense to God, and a created animal. (what creates and animates is infinitely better than the created or animated).

>>620920

Slavery is ownership (of person and rights) by someone else. It describes the relationship between people, not abuse or pain and misery inflicted upon someone else.

>>620920

>but couldn't be bothered to give an opinion about slavery, even when confronted directly by it.

Slave and Servant at the time were colloquial. Asides this old times slavery were different from slavery of later era.

>>621189

>and will never bow down to a pathetic mortal filled with sin who is an offense to God, and a created animal.

Please educate yourself about Christianity

>>621202

I have. We do not worship human mortals, and sinners are an offense to God, and we are created animals (I purposefully drop "rational" from that at times).

>>621211

>We do not worship human mortals

Humans are not mortal, we have immortal soul, but corruptible body.

>and sinners are an offense to God

And yet, you are ordered to obey the government, even though it was made by sinners. Your first post doesnt emphasizes this, rather saying retarded "bow down" that has double meaning.

>we are created animals

No, we are created living icons of God, made in His image and likeness, who "God created to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity.". We are not animals, but supreme creation.

>(I purposefully drop "rational" from that at times).

Nobody cares. Calling humans "animals" in Christian theology is enough to sound retarded already.

>>621173

>Now The New Covenant forbids slavery

Where?

>>620926

> They provided the slave with food and housing and he was free to move about, he wasn't chained.

Sounds exactly like slavery in the US, for the most part.

>>620927

>god wants us to suck it up and obey?

ecclesiastes was pretty clear on this.

It is the will of God to be enslaved sometimes (see Joseph in Egypt).

Sin is not the will of God.

>>621545

I guess killing isn't a sin either, huh?

>>621376

bump

>>621816

No, but murder is.

>>621385

t. somebody who has no idea how US slavery worked

>>621376

Not him, but I do know of a passage in revelations that looks like it prohibits slavery to me.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-13-10/

>>628441

Doesn't look like it to me

>>621173

>the new testament condemns polygamy

hate to be that guy but show me where that is? And know, Jesus talking about Adam and Eve being the first isn't the same thing as saying that any other form of marriage is wrong.

>>628674

no***

>>621376

"No longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord."

Philemon 1:16.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Galatians 3:28.

Would you advocate the slavery of your fellow brother in Christ?

Read your Bible, brother.

>>628674

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” Matthew 19:4-6.

This is marriage in the New Covenant and this was marriage in the beginning. God permited poligamy because of the hardness of heart of men. But now, Jesus came and gave us a heart of flesh. Fufilling the prophecy of Ezekiel.

"And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh" Ezekiel 11:19.

"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh." Ezekiel 36:26.

>>628674

>polygamous marriage is ok because Jesus didn't mean what He said

>sodomite marriage is ok because Jesus didn't mean what He said

>beastial marriage is ok because Jesus didn't mean what He said

Because slavery isn't actually morally wrong, unlike adultery