/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>614469

Paul's just saying there's lots of 'gods' who are really just imaginary or are demons, not that there actually are any other gods.

Re: the psalm…

If man in his unadulterated form—being a creature in the image and likeness of God to whom God has given dominion over all of creation—does not qualify as a little-g god, I don't know what could possibly.

The word god can sometimes refer to authorities other than the one true God. Usually this is indicated in translation with a lower case g. In the case of the last verse you quoted it is referencing Satan. If you look around you you'll notice that Satan has dominion over a lot of worldly things: politicians, banks, corporations, etc.

>>614469

Psalm 82 is about unjust judges who make themselves out to have the power of gods. It's an imprecatory (cursing) psalm. The psalmist is cursing the unjust judges of Israel. I hate to do this, but this one you actually should read the NIV, as it puts quotes around "gods."

1 Cor 8:5 is about meat sacrificed to idols. Apparently in a lot of old market butcheries, the animals were sacrificed to something. Then the question comes up, is it licit for a Christian to eat that meat? Paul's saying, look, the world says there are a lot of God, but we know the one true God, so sure, you CAN eat it, but you SHOULDN'T, because it could look like you worship that idol. See 1 Cor 8:6-7

2 Cor 4:4 is a reference back to the radianceof Moses, whose face literally glowed so much he had to wear a veil to avoid freaking people out (Exod 34). 2 Cor 4 is asking if Christ died and rose again, why can't people see what we have? Paul answers that that satan has blinded them in sin. Cornith was a port city with all associated vices therewith, the Church in Corinth had some issue starting out - Paul pretty much hollers at them all through 1 Cor.

These aren't polytheistic verses - the answer to all polytheists is Isaiah 43:10, always, and forever.

Quote Todd Friel, "How do I know? For the CONTEXT tells me so."

>>614469

Psalm 82: God, in the heavenly court, is chastising the demons who try to rule over the Earth to corrupt it.

1 Cor. 8:5: Paul is refuting the foolishness of the so-called "strong brothers" who think idols aren't attached to real spiritual forces. Paul probably has Ps. 82 in mind as well as other verses. 1 Cor. is all to often mis-interpreted since people forget that Paul quotes things from a letter from Corinth and proceeds to respond, mostly with criticism.

2 Cor. 4:4: "The god of this world" is the devil, continuing the Bible's use of the generic "god", but Christ is the spittin' image of the true, almighty God. There are many reasons unbelievers do not readily accept the Gospel, and the devil's work is one of them.

>>614504

Nope, wrong. The word in Psalm 82 is e*lo*him (אֱלֹהִ֣ים), which is a special generic (an oxymoron, I know) for "lord" or "lords". That e*lo*him is slightly different from the Elo*him referring to THE Lord (אֱ‍ֽלֹהִ֗ים) in the same passage. Corrupt human judges can be viewed here only because they are influenced all too easily by these evil, spiritual judges. Asaph uses the typical prophetic double entendre, but the primary meaning is demons.

Not only that, but the phrase "sons of the Most High" or "sons of God" in the OT 99% of the time refers to angels, or in this case and some others, demons.

>>614469

OP, I suggest you read the Book of Job and Book of Kings. In it are mentioned some type of councils God presides over with various Spirits presenting themselves (including the devil). The prophet Isaiah mentioned being in God's Throne Room and there being various creatures like cherubim and seraphim encircling God's Throne. Point being, Heaven isn't going to be a boring place but is full of life beyond what you or I can imagine. Lastly, in The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, the Apostle Paul mentions we (the saved) are to judge angels one day giving us a higher position than even the angels themselves.

tl;dr Read the Bible in its entirety

>>614469

I forgot to mention this, but Christ deals with this point: "Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in yyour Law, z‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be abroken— 36 do you say of him whom bthe Father consecrated and csent into the world" (John 10:34-36)

The point isn't that Jesus has become a polytheist, but that the religious leaders misinterpret both the Tanakh and the ministry of Christ. At the very least, Christ should be considered a "god", or better read judge, according to that use of the word because of His works and words are good. The leaders won't even admit that. Guess what? Jesus quotes Ps. 82.

>>614512

>so sure, you CAN eat it

You are pitting Paul against Christ (Rev. 2:14,20) and the members of the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15:20 and Paul agreed to that!). See the part here >>614513 about 1 Corinthians.

>>614517

Yeah, please forgive CAN here, COULD would have been better.

>>614517

And yet nothing that enters a man from outside can defile him. The sticking point of eating meat from a sacrificial offering is not the meat but participation in the sacrificial rite.

>>614513

>generic for lords

Close, but it's a generic for gods, not lords. El means god, not lord. Doesn't imply demons. John 10:34-35 makes clear who Psalm 82:6 is talking to.

>>614541

Which is why God doesn't punish those who mess up the Lord's Tab….oh: 1 Corinthians 11:17-34

>The sticking point of eating meat from a sacrificial offering is not the meat

So it's okay to use vaccines made from butchered babies who were simple, unprotected cells as long as I'm not the Moloch scientists? It's okay to accept a tithe from a man who charges interest from the poor or who got the money from extreme gambling or graft as long as I'm not the money teller? Why Thanks for clearing my conscience anon! :) I guess God doesn't care about the little things like our eating habits, which is why He….well sh–! There's 1 Corinthians 11:17-34 ruining everything again!

>And yet nothing that enters a man from outside can defile him.

If you have to use a verse out of context to get a quick shot at my arguments, you are probably reading you Bible wrong. We know, we Protestants have been dealing with this for loooonnnnggg time with the issue of Justification.

>>614543

>>614532

>Yeah, please forgive CAN here, COULD would have been better.

>Close, but it's a generic for gods

My bad, especially for that mis-translation.

>Doesn't imply demons.

<"sons of Most High" plus "gods" language, thus spiritual beings

<Being chastised in Ps. 82 and viewed negatively in 1 and 2 Cor.

<Clearly these spiritual beings are evil in nature

Hmmmm…if only there was a word for "evil spiritual being". Nah, must be a mistake.

>John 10:34-35 makes clear who Psalm 82:6 is talking to.

Who is talking what to whom?

Do you not understand the concept of the heavenly hosts?

A paraphrase: If God called gods to whom He gave the words of His judgement (His word), why do the Sanhedrin say of Jesus, who clearly does everything and more than what these "gods (sons of the Most High)" were neglecting to do in Psalm 82, "he's a blasphemer" just because Jesus is using a Biblical term for angels, and not just the messianic title (though He is calling Himself the Only Begotten Son of God)?

Also, look at verse 5 in Ps. 82: "They have neither knowledge nor understanding,

they walk about in darkness…" "they" being the either the wicked or those in the hands of the wicked. Either case, Paul references this as it's clearly the spiritual beings in Ps. 82 in general and Satan in 2 Cor. 4:4 particular that help cause this darkness.

>>614469

From Wesley's notes:

The God of this world - What a sublime and horrible description of Satan! He is indeed the god of all that believe not, and works in them with inconceivable energy. Hath blinded - Not only veiled, the eye of their understanding. Illumination - Is properly the reflection or propagation of light, from those who are already enlightened, to others. Who is the image of God - Hence also we may understand how great is the glory of Christ. He that sees the Son, sees the Father in the face of Christ. The Son exactly exhibits the Father to us.

>>614489

This is a problem for me. Then what about the Greek's gods? What about the Summerian's gods? Demons fooling humans? For what purpose? And why would God permit it for so long?

To my mind it makes more sense that these entities are, as you've said, completely fanciful, but become "real," and powerful, as humans invest energy and emotions into them. Tulpas. I don't completely rest my faith in that being the case, but it strikes me as a more plausible explanation.

>>614554

Ruining what? The drunkard of 1 Corinthians 11:21 is defiled by his neglect of a brother, not the booze. If this is your best attempt at context you'd be better off cultivating that snide tongue of yours.

>>614579

Why did the Devil ask Jesus, the eternal uncreated Son to kneel down and worship him? Overweening hubris is in the nature of demons.

>>614469

That Psalm is about humans. Jesus quotes this Psalm in john 10 confirming that it's about humans. Because humans are made in image and likeness of God and purpose of our life is Theosis/Divinization. It's not talking about pagan """"god's""""

>I said, You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. (Psalm 82:6)

V.1God rejected the Jews in the preceding psalm, and here the reason is assigned. Congregation, or church of the Jews, who were gathered together like cattle, and sought after temporal advantages (S. Aug. in Ps. lxxii. 23.) alone.

This is not exactly true of all, (Heb. xi. 14.) though it might be of the people in general, who seldom raised their thoughts to spiritual delights

Of gods. Heb. "of God," who presides in his own council, and gives authority to others.

Yet Syr. has, "the angels;" Chal. "the just;" Prot. "the mighty;" and Aquila, "the powerful ones."

Gods here are put for judges, who act in God's name. Deut. i. 17. Ex. xxii. 28. To decide affairs of consequence, the priests and other judges met in the temple; and the Romans did the like, each senator offering incense and wine to the god who was honoured in that place. Suet. in Aug. xxxv

All magistrates ought to be equally careful in what they determine, as if they heard God present giving them the following instructions

This bringeth on the reprobation of the Jews, v. 5. &c.

Ver. 6. Gods. The people look upon you as such, and treat you with respect. But entertain not sentiments of pride on that account.

If judges, even those whom God condemns, may be styled gods without blasphemy, how much more might Jesus Christ, who was holy and did the works of God? He uses this argument to make the fury of the people abate: but then he continues to prove that he was God in a very different and proper sense, insomuch that the Jews, clearly perceiving his meaning, which Socinians would now mistake, took up stones to throw at him. Jo. x. 34.

If he had not been God, He would surely have told them plainly, as S. Paul did when people would have offered sacrifice to him, and as S. John Baptist confessed that he was not the Christ. The sons of Seth, priests, the just, and all the Israelites, were styled sons of God, as well as the angels and judges. Gen. vi. 2. Ps. xxviii. 1. Wisd. v. 5. Job i. 6. But no individual is called the Son, except Jesus Christ the true God.

This passage may be understood of all the faithful, (S. Aug.) particularly of bishops: and Constantine the Great was hence deterred from judging them (S. Greg. i. dec. Grat. p. 2. c. 11. q. 1.) or the clergy; (S. Melchiades. c. 12. q. 1.) though this name seems inaccurate, as the died before (Glossa) the council of Nice. Amama restrains the text to men in power.

Their elevated station make their ignorance and misconduct less excusable.

>For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, (1 Corinthians 8:5)

Ver. 5. Many gods, &c. Reputed for such among the heathens.

>The god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4

Ver. 4. In whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers. Thus the words are placed, both in the Latin and Greek text, so that the true God seems to be called the God of this world, as he is elsewhere called the God of heaven, the God of Abraham. God, says S. Chrys. blinded, that is, permitted them to be blinded. Others translate, in whom God hat blinded the minds of the infidels of this world; so that this world may be joined with unbelievers, and not with God: and by the God of this world, some understand the devil, called sometimes the prince of this world, that is, of the wicked.

the other Gods are highly specialized demons who have blinded humans with imagination which is a lie, to the reality of God that is the truth.