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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: 6ce699054acb46e⋯.jpg (1.14 MB, 2065x1452, 2065:1452, iStock-467003308.jpg)

575ef2 No.611381

>Someone who has been living a great worldly life where he could acquire whatever pleasure he wants and also torment weaker people than him can always just repent sincerely and be forgiven. There are many examples of this including saints, but is their suffering the same, they never really experienced hardships. Even though they might repent and live a really ascetic life of denial at old age is it really the same

>someone has been living a terrible life full of denial and humiliation might seek God sincerely from young age but can have hard time following through because his past and present is always tormenting him and he is just a broken person. Most of the "great" degenerates,serial killers, dictators and other evil people have lived such lives. They had absolutely no control of their body just like their superiors, but unlike them they are way more likely to go to hell.

How can one rationalise God's fairness when He Himself confirms it in. Physicalism doesn't help as well.

575ef2 No.611383

>confirms it in.

Confirms it in Matthew 20 I meant


5b4072 No.611511

>>611381

Excuse me if I am wrong, but do you mean to say He is unfair in this? This is entirely fair. A sincere devotion and faith is equal to Him, no matter what else is done, or for how long. It is the same to Him. "Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart."


3a3eec No.611516

Rephrase your post in a coherent way.


575ef2 No.611522

>>611511

How would someone who has lived a great life be equal to someone who suffered all his life? You're not honest if you think they had the same obstacles in their faith.

>>611516

Of course


5b4072 No.611526

>>611522

Of course as a human who lacks virtues think that it's not fair, instinctively. But intellectually, and in the soul, I fully know that it is.

God is not bound as I said earlier by outward appearances of things, and is not deceived by false images and animal morality. We are, and so we alone in that part of us think it's not fair. But looking at it (or trying to) from His view, dedicated faith and true repentance, a virtuous soul, even after a short while, or an easy time, is the same.

Also, hard life or easy life, the obstacles are the same. If you are rich you have the temptation to greed, poor the desire for riches. If you are well you have the aversion to sickness, sickly then the desire for things that are not. On and on you can go, these are all equally sins.


575ef2 No.611630

>>611526

>intellectually

Then why are you not explaining it you fucking pseud. It can't be fair when one of them was suffering his whole life.

>If you are rich you have the temptation to greed

And they do, they live their live to the "fullest" and in the end still repent and are forgiven. You're either retarded or pretending to not understand my question.

(USER WAS WARNED FOR INSULTS)

51de81 No.611637

>>611381

Well, that's my problem exactly. Someone fornicates for 20 years, enjoys every moment of it and suddenly he regrets it? Or he says how hard it was on him? I think people regret it only when they're directly face with the negative consequences of their behavior, such as being close to death and maybe going to hell.

One Bible verse says man will reap what he sows, but how when you can just say I'm sorry.


f26e75 No.611638

>>611381

>>611637

The journey of the soul doesn't end at death, there is still a lot of work to do and experience post-mortem and the purification process will be very intense for some, while softer for others.


27ebd8 No.611642

>>611638

Well, purgatory makes sense, it's just that only Catholics believe it exists.


575ef2 No.611658

>>611638

Have you ever read the Bible? I myself posted the exact part where its talked about this problem and yet you still talk.


f26e75 No.611660

>>611642

i dont know what purgatory is nor care what catholics believe but i know what i say is true.


76d487 No.611669

>>611658

Well, you are a braindead retard who thinks that salvation is bought with some kind of suffering coin and, usrprisingly, you are able to talk

(USER WAS WARNED FOR INSULTS)

575ef2 No.611678

>>611669

>he talks like is superior yet can't prove anything to save his life

>calls other retarded and braindead

Sure showing me there. Once again you're trying to change the topic because you're afraid.


44b63e No.611696

>>611630

>And they do, they live their live to the "fullest" and in the end still repent and are forgiven. You're either retarded or pretending to not understand my question.

Sure, but it is incredibly hard for someone who "lived their life to the fullest" as you say, or indulged in meaningless hedonism, as we say, to look upon their whole life with the regret necessary to obtain forgiveness. It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

You realize, of course, death-bed lip service doesn't work. You really have to recognize the depravity, and wish you hadn't engaged in it. You can't just think to yourself "well, now that I'm about to die, I'll repent" - if that thought is in your mind, your repentance is impossible. And how deeply in your mind it must be on your death bed! The sheer difficulty on a true, non self-serving repentance when the benefits of repentance are imminent staggers the mind. Because, if you're doing it for the reward- it doesn't count! You have to actually regret your life.

Basically, it's fair because almost no one can manage it. If you're living your life thinking you'll confess on your deathbed, you've complicated the issue even further because now it's a planned lie.


575ef2 No.611701

>>611696

>Sure, but it is incredibly hard for someone who "lived their life to the fullest" as you say, or indulged in meaningless hedonism, as we say, to look upon their whole life with the regret necessary to obtain forgiveness

Is this some kind of I joke that I simply don't get? This is usually the easiest way people turn to God. Its why jails are full of christians and a lot of reach people starting to preach and donating tons of money. Is it hard or they are simply bored or tired of it. I really don't understand your mental gymnastics.


575ef2 No.611702

>>611696

>You realize, of course, death-bed lip service doesn't work. You really have to recognize the depravity, and wish you hadn't engaged in it. You can't just think to yourself "well, now that I'm about to die, I'll repent" - if that thought is in your mind, your repentance is impossible. And how deeply in your mind it must be on your death bed! The sheer difficulty on a true, non self-serving repentance when the benefits of repentance are imminent staggers the mind. Because, if you're doing it for the reward- it doesn't count! You have to actually regret your life.

I never said that, I explicitly said when one is absolutely sincere, not on a dead bead but actually stopping the carnal pleasures and living an ascetic life. Another thing that I have to mention every post is the verse Matthew 20 since nobody talks about it.


69bcda No.611704

>>611381

> but unlike them they are way more likely to go to hell.

You mean more likely to go to HEAVEN?

Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”


44b63e No.611705

>>611701

>Is this some kind of I joke that I simply don't get? This is usually the easiest way people turn to God. Its why jails are full of christians and a lot of reach people starting to preach and donating tons of money. Is it hard or they are simply bored or tired of it. I really don't understand your mental gymnastics.

People in jail aren't turning to God because of their good life. They're turning to God because of their suffering. You were arguing how people would be happy hedonists until death- people in jail do not get the happy hedonistic lifestyle so it doesn't mesh with your current argument.

>I never said that, I explicitly said when one is absolutely sincere, not on a dead bead but actually stopping the carnal pleasures and living an ascetic life. Another thing that I have to mention every post is the verse Matthew 20 since nobody talks about it.

What's your problem with Matthew 20? The parable is really clear. If everyone gets what they need why are you jealous of the guy who started work late? That's a problem of jealousy in your heart, not of God's justice. I don't begrudge them entering into the Kingdom of God because they did stupid, unfulfilling stuff first.

I don't live an ascetic lifestyle because I fear judgment. I live an ascetic lifestyle because it is more fulfilling and I like pleasing God. I feel pity for those who seek fulfillment in sensual pleasures.

It seems to me, you are forcing asceticism when you really want to indulge and that is causing bitterness in you towards others who live in ignorance. Pray to God for a better relationship with him, if you were more in tune with God you would pity the hedonists, not be jealous of them - like the earlier workers in the parable of Matthew 20


575ef2 No.611707

>>611704

Did you read the whole verse though, if he gives his possessions, like a some do it counts. And why again do you always think rich equals having life full of worldly pleasures and destroying other people lives?


69bcda No.611708

>>611707

Rich was just a way he was talking about how you had pleasure. If you're off culling people and stuff you probably have a high position.

>if he gives his possessions, like a some do it counts

>like a some do it counts

???


575ef2 No.611709

>>611705

>People in jail aren't turning to God because of their good life.

They are turning to God usually became their fun ended, if they were not caught they would have continued doing so.

>people in jail do not get the happy hedonistic lifestyle so it doesn't mesh with your current argument.

Actually a lot do, its those who get the short stick that don't like it. Some even don't want to leave it.

>That's a problem of jealousy in your heart

Because it is not fair. Like I said already, someone might ruin your life, make you do sins that will surely throw you in hell while he can just repent and be it.

>Pray to God for a better relationship with him, if you were more in tune with God you would pity the hedonists, not be jealous of them - like the earlier workers in the parable of Matthew 20

I do pray to Him for the truth so I can actually understand and actually have a reason to obey him.

>God you would pity the hedonists, not be jealous of them - like the

I never envied the hedonists, its why I think its unfair for them to still get the SAME treatment or better.


aa02ee No.611721

>>611630

Really all this is solved if you would stop trying to use your finite human mind to judge the Infinite Mind of the Living Father.


575ef2 No.611725

>>611721

What if my finite mind simply can't comprehend holiness though, how can it be my fault.


dd2b4a No.611727

>>611725

It is called faith for a reason. One believes even though one does not fully comprehend it.


575ef2 No.611730

>>611727

But what if my physical mind is constructed in a way that prevents me from believing. How is it my fault.


aa02ee No.611731

>>611730

That is not of you, that is of the devil. Joy, Peace, and Love are the things of the Father, anything else is of the god of this world. The doubt is not of you, it's just an empty trap to death, faith is what your spirit wills for, but doubt (which you and your soul sees as something not empty and to death, not seeing the nature of it and where it leads) is what the flesh does.

It is not your fault, you just need to realize that it's not you at all. And when you fully understand that, even in one area, the whole kingdom of darkness falls down, and you'll no longer be under it.


575ef2 No.611736

>>611731

What if I can't realise that, what if my brain just registers it as untrue and simply can't accept it?


aa02ee No.611739

>>611736

Ask God for grace and understanding, but such a realization of sin/doubt (which really is rooted in one of 6 deceptions, wrongly desiring what leads to death and thinking it is good, pursuing things you judge to be good personally, avoiding things and thinking they are evil falsely, withdrawing from what you see as bad for you personally, being distracted from the truth of God and seeing something mildly interesting or "better" falsely, and finally being obsessed with false images) can take time. But your physical brain, one of the most easily deceived things ever, is no indicator of truth.


575ef2 No.611749

>>611739

That still doesn't explain it, if im predetermined its clear that there is no other way.


5ce004 No.611757

>>611739

Im asking him for over a year now but I still struggle like when I didnt. Why? I finally want some peace from my never ending doubts.


1a8b29 No.612814

>>611739

Where's this 6 deceptions thing from?

>>611757

Continue to pray and read a few introductory books like 'Reasons for God' by Tim Keller and 'Mere Christianity' by C.S Lewis.


5b4072 No.612833

>>612814

They come from my own attempt to figure out what happens when I sin, which seemingly fit into those 6 categories. Which is summed up as "seeing value/profit/worthiness where there is nothing but emptiness."


5c751d No.612834

>>611709

Wanna know how I know you're a homosexual?


5c751d No.612835

>>611381

Who are you quoting?


5c751d No.612836

>>611730

Pray incessantly for the Lord to give you faith, that's how it works


5b4072 No.612838

>>612834

They say it takes one to know one.


1a8b29 No.612840

>>612833

Oh fair, I thought assumed it came from a theologian or something that I could get a source on lol. I like the summary, but am a little curious about some of them:

>wrongly desiring what leads to death and thinking it is good

fine

>pursuing things you judge to be good personally

do you mean to say "pursuing things you judge to be good personally that in reality are not good?"

>avoiding things and thinking they are evil falsely

does this mean scrupulosity?

>withdrawing from what you see as bad for you personally

is it scrupulosity again?

>being distracted from the truth of God and seeing something mildly interesting or "better" falsely

fine

>and finally being obsessed with false images

does this mean idolotry?

>>612838

lol


5b4072 No.612846

>>612840

They are in 3 pairs (should've written it better).

Desire/pursuit: Wanting anything that isn't wanting to change the past, wanting what's evil, wanting anything but to get closer to God (these constitute desire), actually pursuing or trying to influence any of these things (this is pursuit).

The pursuit does mean that, because I only consider the things of God, and the virtues associated for humans to be good. Anything else is at best a preference (like a warm blanket in the winter, good health, long life, meat and seasonings, etc) but is ultimately indifferent. Those things should be enjoyed as a preference when they come, and not desired at any other time.

Avoidance (better said as aversion)/withdrawing: Having aversion to hardships, having aversion to people, things, situations, death, sickness, poverty (these constitute aversion), and actually attempting to control and "withdraw" from these things (this is withdrawal).

For aversion this relies on my belief that "good" shouldn't be seen as something that you go out and do from a neutral place, and that evil is going out and doing wrong from a neutral place. Instead I see good as the neutral place and the baseline, and evil is the only thing you can do away from it (so there is never celebration for getting over sin, you've just achieved normality for what you're meant to be doing, nothing special). So because of evil being an active deviation from normality, that means that you should never think of a thing that isn't evil, as evil, or negative. Death, sickness, poverty. These are just things that are, and have already been defeated (especially death, BTFO) in Christ. So we shouldn't have a worry about them. They are not a preference of ours, but are indifferent ultimately. And we especially shouldn't try and control situations that are not ours to control and withdraw from them.

That too, you shouldn't be scrupulous, this is falling into desire/aversion, pursuit/withdrawal, all at the same time. And thinking that somehow you can control these things, you should rely on God (we know it is His will for us to be saved) and endure your faults and "victories" (not a victory, you're achieving normality) under His mercy. Being scrupulous is an attempt to take into control what is not yours in the first place.

Distraction/obsession: Forgetting that God sees all, forgetting your faith, forgetting what you are meant to be doing in a moment, ever minding or dwelling on an evil thing (these constitute distraction), being totally absorbed into an evil "image" (which is just an appearance of a situation or thing in life that is nothing), repeatedly trying to get that image (this is obsession).

Distraction is something easily avoided with paying attention to where you are in life, and what you're meant to be doing. Obsession combines every one of the other 5, and is a constant sin. You have completely missed the mark then, and are entirely blinded and deceived in this area.

It is also idolatry, because you have made that thing a god and completely abandoned the true God.


1a8b29 No.612864

File: badbd527eb6b4ea⋯.jpg (7.39 KB, 330x190, 33:19, dc72290349cd40b6961c07ae62….jpg)

>>612846

Noice. Thanks for taking the time to reply. Ima screen cap it and file it away to chew on sometime.




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