/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>601751

>Why was magic so common in the olden days compared to now?

<He think that magic is not even more common right now

>I mean you had Simon the magician who was flying around a town until Paul stoked him with God's wrath.

Like I said, there is a lot of magic in those sad days of ours. But of other kind. Remember, demonic mind is hyperintelligent. And they know very well that if they would stop being subtle they would lead many unto belief of supernatural. And as Saint Faustine teaches, the most numeros in Hell are those who did not belived in Hell in the first place.

It was Peter BTW.

>Also, do you consider miracles as magic? What exactly is the difference between the two?

Miracles, properly speaking are all supernatural signs and events or to translate properly, wonders. There are good and bad miracles, from good and bad supernatural sources (or rather supernatual for us. For it's completly in nature of demon or angel to, for exmple, cause storm out of thin air)

There is no good magic though. It's always occult. Always demonic. Always evil.

Read those two articles

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11197b.htm http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10338a.htm

This all being said, even the second most powerful wizard, magicians, witch or warlock or even whole sabath of them is nothing compared to one humble and faithful exorcist.

Sancte Michael ora pro nobis

I dont know if this is too off topic but do you guys know how to do diy exorcism and curse removal?

>>601778

You call a priest who is a legitimate exorcist.

>>601802

out of the question obv

if diy baptism is possible then why not

>Why was magic so common in the olden days compared to now?

Satan uses other weapons now, since they are more effective today.

Namely: atheism, which was basically unheared of in the old world (since it goes clearly against the foundation of human reason)

And now with people honestly thinking that everything came from nothing and regarding that as some sort of intellectual revolution, Satan has no need for magic and illusions.

>>601816

Baptism has very minimal requirements

>be done by somebody baptized

>use water

>use trinitarian formula

>have proper intent

Exorcism is much trickier. I feel like trying to exorcise someone on your own with no expertise is a good way for the demons to just attack you

>Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

>And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

>And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

>And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

>And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified

>>601816

>if diy baptism is possible then why not

DIY baptism is not possible though.

Visiting occultist here. Most magic isn't anything flashy like flying. It's main purpose is to alter perception (hacking the source code of mind and soul, if you will). The changing of perception is what makes things happen, because it causes people to behave differently and think differently.

If you're talking about this kind of magic, then it's everywhere. Advertising, politics, (((Hollywood))), television, business, fraternities, you name it.

>>602195

This will be much more obvious to you guys than /fringe/, but Christianity is pretty much the best defense against malicious magic.

>>601778

>DIY Exorcism

Also known DIY demonic possession. Exorcisms are extremely tricky. I've posted this excerpt from Words of St. Paisios before, but it's a good account, and it illustrates how much virtue you need to preform an exorcism.

>A demon-possessed person was taken to a monastery, and the abbot there instructed the fathers to go to the chapel and pray for him with their prayer-ropes. In that monastery, they also had as a holy relic the head of Saint Parthenios, bishop of Lampsacus; this had the demon "cornered" quite a bit.

>At the same time, the abbot assigned the reading of exorcisms to a certain priest-monk. This monk was pious outwardly, but inside he was secretly arrogant. He was a fighter and a stickler in everything he did. He used to counsel the others, because he was also scholarly. He himself however would not receive help from anyone, because out of respect, they would hesitate to tell him whenever they saw him doing something incorrectly. He had created illusions inside himself that he was the most virtuous one in the monastery and so on, so the evil one grabbed the opportunity that day to harm him.

>The demon implemented its wickedness and made him think that he was driving it out of the demon-possessed person. So, as soon as he began to read the exorcisms, the demon began to cry out "You're burning me! Why are you sending me away, you cruel one?" – which made him believe that the demon was being burnt by his exorcisms – when it was the praying by the other brethren that was pressuring the demon! So, he replied to the demon "Come to me."

>These words had been uttered by Saint Parthenios to a demon, but he was a saint: once, when a demon was crying out "I'm burning, I'm burning, where should I go?" the Saint replied "Come to me." But during that incident, the demon replied to the Saint: "Your name alone burns me, Parthenios!" and immediately departed from the possessed person.

>Well, that monk attempted to act like Saint Parthenios, but became possessed himself. From that moment on, the demon controlled him for years on end, and he couldn't find rest anywhere. He was constantly on the move - sometimes outside, in the world, and other times on the Holy Mountain [Athos]. How that poor soul was tormented! That terrible state had caused weariness to his soul, as well as physical fatigue accompanied by tremors. And you know, even though he used to be a good priest, he could no longer minister. See what the devil can do?

>Elder, when one prays for a demon-possessed person, what should one say?

>First of all, one should glorify God: "Thank You my God," he should say, "for helping me so that I am in this state when I could have been in this person's situation, with not only five or six demons, but thousands. I beg You, please help Your servant who is in so much suffering." In other words, one should first say a prayer from the heart and then continue with the prayer "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on Your servant."

>Sometimes, we who pray can become the cause for the demon to not depart from the possessed person, because we pray with arrogance. For instance, even if we make the slightest arrogant thought: "Ah, my prayer will help to drive out the demon," divine assistance is immediately hindered and we instead help the demon to remain in place. We should always pray for the demon-possessed with humility, with heartache and with love.

Tbh I think most magic was fraudulent. Some may have been assisted by demonic powers, but I feel most was fake.

>>601751

>Also, do you consider miracles as magic? What exactly is the difference between the two?

You're probably referring to supernatural acts. I agree with this Christanon of the distinction between the two >>601775

>Why was magic so common in the olden days compared to now?

Supernatural acts aren't any less common today as they were then. It's just that most of us were brainwashed with the Darwinian paradigm of natural (macro) evolution which makes us think we all came from nothing and self-replicating bits, and that any supernatural acts (NDEs, magick, etc.) are just people imagining things. In short, people back then were less ignorant than people today, ironically speaking. All of this stuff is real, and if you simply look around and stop dismissing things you'd be surprised what you come across.

>>601776

>It was Peter BTW

Referring to who stoked Simon Magus to God's wrath.

>>602195

Ex-occultist here. You're talking about something like NLP but 'traditional' magic on the other hand has a preternatural basis. Now a lot of modern occultists will say that it's just psychology and/or drugs but the fact is magicians in the past clearly didn't think so

>>611933

>Ex-occultist here.

Same

Psychology and pharma are just different languages/mindsets with which to describe a very tangible phenomenon. It's a bit of a veil against it's effects, but not nearly as effective as the Christian faith. Further, it's impossible to manipulate those powers through that lens though really- no one should want to.

The falsity is people thinking the words control the reality rather than describe the reality

Possession and schizophrenia describe the same tangible condition. Which describes it better? Well, possession has a lot of instances of being cured; psychology claims schizophrenia is incurable. Unless all the exorcists and successfully exorcised individuals are lying, possession is a more accurate description of the condition- and also more useful to those under the conditions effects.

Likewise, a thought-paradigm is only as useful as the good it can produce. Psychology can affect the evil; those that don't want to be affected. That's a power. Psychology cannot produce nearly the same restorative powers that the Christian faith can, that one of its weaknesses. If your goal is eternal life and salvation, it becomes clear that the Christian language paradigm is the one you need to live within.

>>611970

Wow, thanks for this very helpful diagram. I have a St. Benedict medal but i'm freaking lazy so haven't bothered to look up what anything means.

A true miracle must reveal the Divine nature of God

>>602202

>>601778

>>601802

I think the Roman Catholic church beleives that demons are driven out by the authority of the Apostles, granted by Jesus, and passed down through the church. Therefore Catholic Exorcist’s must seek with the permission of their bishop for every single exorcism. It is the authority of the bishop that the demons are forced to respect.