/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>590294

There was an episode of Ancient Faith Radio on that topic, I can't look for it right now, maybe I will be able to later.

The TL;DL is that a deaconess is not a female deacon, their office served a different role. They would assist the priest with the baptism and application of sacraments to grown-up women back in the days when adult baptism was still common and underwear and swimsuits had not yet been invented. Over time the need for their office vanished, and so there are no deaconesses any longer.

>>590298

I think this is the episode in question. It has a transcript when you scroll down if you don't feel like listening to it.

http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/svsvoices/deaconesses

>>590298

Patriarchate of Alexandria has deaconesses.

I've only heard the argument that deaconesses aren't like deacons from people who support it. I mean, I have never heard somebody who is against it claim that deaconesses are just like deacons except female.

>>590294

Pointless if it's not in a culture that creates a strong divide between the male and female sexes. So, we Western nations have no need for the office of deaconess (although it's good to keep in mind that it does exist and is apostolic). The situation in African countries is different though.

>>590307

>Half of the human race should get as little rights as possible instead of being loved as neighbors.

I'm sorry for whatever shitty upbringing you got but I hope you don't kiss the eucharest with that mouth.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c2a3.htm

>>590294

A very ambivalent topic. On the one hand the main care of deacons is pastoral, i.e. soul care and managing charities etc., but they cannot do things that require them to act in persona Christi, i.e. consecrate the Eucharist or utter absolution etc.. The problem comes in when you consider that there is no - and it is forbidden - ordination of women. That goes for monastic as well as other clerical orders. Therefore even nuns are neither clerical nor laity. They consecrate their life to Christ.

So, it's actually clear as of right now. No ordination -> no deaconess. And there's no way around it, because if you enable women to be ordinated to become deaconesses, there would be no reason not to ordinate women as priests and bishops - which is categorically and eternally impossible and ruled out, latest Pope Francis. I don't know for the Eastern Churches, but no Church Father I can imagine knew or spoke of female deacons. Neither Latin, nor Byzantine nor Egyptian.

What some people here mean when they say female deaconess is not the office of an ordinated deacon but "assistants" - similar to altar boys and girls in the Latin Church (I don't know if there's such thing in the Eastern churches) - that handle for example women that are baptized (y'know putting on the Christening robe etc.). Because if these are "actual deaconesses" as in ordinated to the office, then they simply aren't valid and the church that has them is heretical.

So I guess there's your answer. No, not possible.

priest is an icon of christ. how can a woman do that? not good idea

>>590338

From what I've read even male deacons weren't like they are now until after Vatican II. I think before they were solely for people in the process of becoming a priest where as now they're often permanently there.

>>590355

Deacons have always been like they are now, what changed is that V2 enabled "fulltime" deacons.

>>590372

Because the catechism says you're an unrepentant sinner.

>>590381

What are you talking about? I said female deacons are a bad idea.

>>590382

And also said that half of the human race should have as little rights as possible, and according to the Church and it's catechism:

>Respect for the human person entails respect for the rights that flow from his dignity as a creature. These rights are prior to society and must be recognized by it. They are the basis of the moral legitimacy of every authority: by flouting them, or refusing to recognize them in its positive legislation, a society undermines its own moral legitimacy. If it does not respect them, authority can rely only on force or violence to obtain obedience from its subjects. It is the Church's role to remind men of good will of these rights and to distinguish them from unwarranted or false claims. Respect for the human person proceeds by way of respect for the principle that "everyone should look upon his neighbor (without any exception) as 'another self,' above all bearing in mind his life and the means necessary for living it with dignity." No legislation could by itself do away with the fears, prejudices, and attitudes of pride and selfishness which obstruct the establishment of truly fraternal societies. Such behavior will cease only through the charity that finds in every man a "neighbor," a brother.

>>590372

>haha lmao you truly btfo the misogynist xdddd

>>590390

>Kurdish cannon fodder

If you consider a woman, a real knight, who is giving her life for the Church as nothing but cannon fodder while you sit on your ass playing YuGiOh, then you had better not even dare touch the man who gave his life for all of us this Sunday. You've clearly shown that you think women are inherently greedy by saying "you give them a finger and they take the whole hand." Whatever your full opinion is you can keep it to yourself, just make sure that it isn't offensive to the catechism or the Gospel because taking the Eucharist in mortal sin is a mortal sin and you don't deserve to reap whatever you're sowing right now.

>>590393

>gave his life for all of us this Sunday.

Do you people actually believe that Jesus dies again every Sunday?

>>590409

Begone, my context-deaf heathen friend.

>>590410

I'm just asking. Calling me a heathen is pretty harsh.

>>590393

I apologize for my previous trolling, I'm just having a really bad day.

I should've thought about what I was posting.

>>590412

I say so in jest, forgive me if other Baptists have hardened my heart a bit to you guys but when I see a question like that I register it as trolling.

No we don't believe he dies again every Sunday, but we do believe in the real body and blood in the Eucharist.

Truly, truly, I tell you, he who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven so that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And this bread, which I will give for the life of the world, is My flesh.”

At this, the Jews began to argue among themselves, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”

So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is real food, and My blood is real drink.

Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.”

Jesus said these things while He was teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. On hearing this, many of His disciples said, “This is a difficult teaching. Who can accept it?”

Aware that His disciples were grumbling about this teaching, Jesus asked them, “Does this offend you? Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?

The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.) John 6:53-63

Why is it that I can only imagine deaconesses being short haired heterodox hippies?

>>590421

>taking the Eucharist in mortal sin is a mortal sin

How can I absolve myself of this mortal sin? Confession? Prayer?

>>590420

John 6:63. Whole passage is about his words being his flesh that he spoke of. Lord's supper is many chapters later. If you don't think spiritual things are real that's a great concern