/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>585567

>>585571

>>585580

Translated from memetic language

>St Paul does not contradict Jesus.

>I wish people would stop discussing this topic.

If only there were some traditional authority to refer to to address these "issues" then they might be to resolve these "contradictions". Oh wait!

The only thing worse than trying to separate Christ from His Church is trying to separate Christ from his own apostles.

This is the kind of thing you find when people decided that Sola Scriptura just wasn't misleading enough. Now it's Sola Iesus. How much longer before they further amputate it and start fighing over which single Gospel is the most authentic?

>>585583

Because it has been discussed thousand times

Imagen being such a thread for Heretics and Heathens that even 2000 years after death, you cause massive butthurt amongst them.

>>585563

>Jesus says Nations Of The World Are Under Satan, But Paul Says Their Rulers Are Agents of God

fucking kek.

>>585583

Yeah because it's a dead horse topic that's been memed on a thousand times by idiots with completely terrible hermeneutic who intentionally misinterpret verses to prove their "point"

>>585589

St Paul

1 Corinthians 8

4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.

Jesus

Three times Jesus in the Book of Revelation condemns eating meat sacrificed to idols, even saying this is the doctrine of a false prophet. (Rev. 2:6, 14 (Ephesus); Rev. 2:14-15 (Pergamum); Revelation 2:20 (Thyatira).)

14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality

20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.

>>585588

St Paul

Romans 13

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

Jesus

John 12:31

…Satan, the ruler of this world…

Compare Lk 4:5-8 (Satan offers his authority to Jesus to rule the kingdoms of the world), Jn 18:36 ("my kingdom is not of this world") 19:18 ("they crucified him"), Ac 4:26 ("rulers of the world rise up against the Annointed One") (Ps 2:2) versus Paul in Rom 13:1-5.

>>585595

>>585599

These aren't contradictions if you think a little more critically about them.

>>585563

this is strange.

In addition, Paul did not know Christ together with other cares.

>>585599

>…Satan, the ruler of this world…

He isnt. Its a title denoting his influence upon fallen world and fallen mankind through corruption, but he is not ruler in any way.

>Satan offers his authority to Jesus to rule the kingdoms of the world

He is a liar and has no authority to do such thing, but he says it anyways, because hello, hello, "father of lies".

>my kingdom is not of this world

Denoting that Prime concern for Christian is spiritual and not material. That faith saves and not sacrifices, fleshly works or eternal Jihads versus heathens.

>they crucified him

And what does this have to do with anything? Those romans that crucified him became bastion of Christianity.

>rulers of the world rise up against the Annointed One

Nice try using poetic verse of psalm for literal uses.

>>585595

>Careful with nicolaites

>What Paul said about them in Corinthians.

So demostrative

>>585571

>Muh Saul

>>585599

the ruler through "rulers of nations". But we have to give tribute to Caesar. I'm sure you are not twisting words with me, right??

>• Jesus Says Salvation Initiates And Continues By Repentance From Sin and Obedience Besides Faith; Paul Says This is Heresy

It's not like Jesus was the one that said "He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." or anything.

>>585606

ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου - seems pretty clear.

>>585601

In Corinthians, Paul says we are no worse if we eat food sacrificed to idols. In Revelations, Jesus is completely opposed. In Romans, it says we are to be subject, but Jesus would never want us to be subject to Satan even if he has power.

>>585609

Paying taxes is different to being subject. Jesus says give Caesar's coins back to him, not be subject to him.

>>585612

>ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου - seems pretty clear.

And I told you its meaning. Its about influence on fallen mankind, but not literal ownership, rulership, dominance or so on. Only absolute sovereign of the entire existence is God and hence every power is appointed by Him, as Paul says. And only beings that also have claim on rulership of creation are us, humans, for whom which God made everything as per 2 Ezra 8:44, not to mention Genesis itself. Or are you trying to imply that d*vil is some kind of demigod and demiurge? Perhaps this is one of the prime points of this garbage thread, yet another gn*stic propaganda trash.

>>585621

Translated from memetic language

>OP is a troll.

I'm not. All of my posts have been pretty clear and non trollery.

>>585617

The rulers in Romans 13 do not have literal ownership, but they are still rulers in an earthly sense. Ditto, Satan. He is the archon of the world, but his reign ends when he is …

Revelations 20

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

>>585619

See

>>585626

>>585612

Give back the coins so you dont become a subject? This is now your hidden knowledge? Please stop using the denarius of your parents and live in the forest.

>>585633

Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's.

Jesus said the coins of Caesar have his face on them. So give them back to their owner - Caesar. He was not saying be subject to the governing authorities like Paul says.

Paying Taxes to Caesar

(Matthew 22:15-22; Luke 20:19-26)

13Later, they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to catch Jesus in His words. 14“Teacher,” they said, “we know that You are honest and are swayed by no one. Indeed, You are impartial and teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Now then, is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar or not? Should we pay them or not?”

15But Jesus saw through their hypocrisy and said, “Why are you testing Me? Bring Me a denariusb to inspect.” 16So they brought it, and He asked them, “Whose likeness is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they answered.

17Then Jesus told them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

And they marveled at Him.

>>585636

Since the things of God are outwordly you must renounce to the evil material WiFi. Surely payed by submitting your time and efforts to an evil ruler.

Luke 9:50

<50> And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Luke 11:23

<23> He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

Christ confirmed anti-Christ wtf

>>585626

Since Satan rules by politicians you must refuse to vote

>>585640

Wifi technology is man made, although the archon tou kosmou sure knows how to use it for evil. I'm not a gnostic so I don't believe material, such as routers, is inherently evil. God made all things good, but original sin has corrupted them, and the archon rules over this broken world until he burns in the lake of fire for ever and ever. Amen.

>>585643

Already ahead of you.

>>585642

No contradiction. He was not against Jesus and so was with him.

Bloody hell this is a new type lunacy horrid interpretation. Compared to you, that hafizposter is a paragon of virtue.

[-] the thread

>>585645

Archon tou kosmou?

B A Z I N G A

>>585636

So you pay taxes but you are actually not submitting to temporal powers, right? Fine man. No prob

>>585650

>d-delet this!

>>585656

Yes, just returning property back to its owner.

Peter

15Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother PAUL also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are HARD TO UNDERSTAND, which ignorant and unstable people DISTORT, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

2 Peter 3

Even Peter said Paul was δυσνόητά - dysnoeta.

dysnóētos (an adjective deriving from /dys-, "difficult" and noētos, "understanding,").

Regardless, Peter still supported Paul.