/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>579245

I don't know how to deal with it. When I look at people around me, everyone's doing it. Even my church going friends, people who are active in young Christians groups and so on. And later in life they're just gonna repent and go to Heaven, just like a nun will. Or if protestants are right, they'll be saved just because they nominally believe in Christ, even though they did not live by His rules.

These things bother me, I feel I'm being made a fool of while everyone's having a blast. The only thing keeping me from indulging in degeneracy is that it's simply so repulsive to me, drinking makes me physically sick, casual sex is not attractive to me at all, I hate crowds and loud music. Frankly, the prospect of going to Heaven does not comfort me.

>>579398

This is exactly how I feel. If they do all these acts, having fun and all that, and then they repent before they die or something like that, then everything works out. I don't know, I think there's more to it than just saying you're sorry.

>Frankly, the prospect of going to Heaven does not comfort me

Would you care to elaborate more?

>The world is dying the only thing left to do is ride the tiger.

I guess so.

>>579399

>Would you care to elaborate more?

As I said, it doesn't comfort me. When I see degeneracy I feel like I said I do, and when I think to myself 'well at least there's more probability I'll go to Heaven' , it doesn't make me feel any better. I still feel I'm missing out on something and that I'm being made a fool of.

The fact that bothers me the most is that those people will never suffer the consequences of their actions, they'll turn 35 one day and 'settle down' and their lives will go on like they never did anything bad and will not affect their salvation. And what's the Church doing? Talking about global warming and letting in refugees. Not a word about morality and sexual morality in particular.

I also think that people do not regret their behavior. They indulged in it willingly and deliberately. Will you ever or did you ever hear someone say 'oh man I'm so sorry I was with 20 women during college'. Or 'I'm so sorry I used to get drunk with my friends and have fun'.

>>579245

That much change in only 2 years? Just you wait, kid. I graduated high school in 1990. 27 years brings changes upon changes within more and more changes.

Just shrug, go to college, and move on.

>>579397

If you /thread your own post, you're being prideful.

>>579399

>>579398

>>579401

for a person that does bad things habitually dont you think it would be much more difficult for them to TRULY change then someone like you and me. Of course. In fact most will not change and will probably burn in hell. Do not be mistaken; only the people who deserve to be with God, will be with God.

>Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

>>579403

No im not being prideful. Now put your flag on boi

>>579404

Well most people spend at least 15 years partying it up until they 'settle down'. If they go to confession, if they start living a religious life afterwards, there will be no consequences. So they had fun, they felt good, I did not, I missed out on it, but when everything is summed up before our death, we're in completely same position when it comes to salvation.

>>579401

I see, thanks for the input.

>Will you ever or did you ever hear someone say 'oh man I'm so sorry I was with 20 women during college'. Or 'I'm so sorry I used to get drunk with my friends and have fun'.

Nope, that sums it all up I guess. When I told them that I made a commitment that I will stay a virgin until marriage, they just asked me why. When I told them about morality and degeneracy, they just shrugged it off. I believe we will be rewarded more I guess especially since it is happening all around us, and there are so many outlets we can take to relieve ourselves, if you will.

>>579402

There's no doubt that I will experience many different things, and that is what I am doing.

>>579404

But how will I know that what I am doing is pleasing to Him?

>for a person that does bad things habitually dont you think it would be much more difficult for them to TRULY change then someone like you and me.

I don't think they will change, as you pointed out. I just want to understand how they can claim to be Christian, or are Christian, and then go on to perform all these acts when they have been told and taught in school and in church that these acts are deplorable. Don't they feel any remorse? Is this what society has come to? I understand I am very young, 18 to be exact, and I will see much worse things which society and people within a society do.

>>579406

I think it is more complicated than that.

>>579407

Rewarded how? There are levels of Heaven. But in Heaven there's no negative emotion, so why is it even relevant whether you're on the lowest level or the highest? They'll get to Heaven and feel fine.

>>579409

Hmm, I honestly don't know how to answer this. You mentioned that there are levels in Heaven, would you mind telling me more about this? I thought there was Heaven, and that's it.

>>579407

>is this what society has come to?

Yes. As evola pointed out we are men standing among the ruins and the only thing left to do is ride the tiger. I recommend you get thicker skin and learn to ignore the bad parts of society(which is almost all of it). Get some new friends who share the same ideology as you. People like us shoudnt hang around with filth.

>Pearls before swine

>>579412

>Get some new friends who share the same ideology as you

That is a very rare occurrence my friend.

>>579413

What country do you live in?

>>579410

I thought that levels of Heaven are a protestant theory, but I looked into it and the Church teaches the same thing.

>The . . . Council of Florence (1439) declared the souls of the perfectly just clearly behold the Triune and One God as he is, but corresponding to the difference of their merits, the one more perfectly than the other. The Council of Trent defined that the justified person merits an increase of the heavenly glory by good works. (Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, 479)

I was arguing with a protestant regarding faith alone salvation. I said that if you believe, it doesn't matter how much you sin, you'll still be saved. Then he said well sins matter in the sense that you end up in a lower level of Heaven. But the, it occurred to me that Heaven is Heaven and bliss is in Heaven so really who cares about levels.

>>579415

Lebanon. Most of the individuals within the newer and my generations are more and more "progressive" on some ideals. Most are against homosexuality. When it comes to sex and intercourse, they wouldn't mind doing it I guess.

>But the, it occurred to me that Heaven is Heaven and bliss is in Heaven so really who cares about levels.

If that's the case, then what's the point of having different levels?

>>579418

Second paragraph was meant for >>579416

>>579418

>If that's the case, then what's the point of having different levels?

Beats me, dude. What's the difference between seeing God clearly and unclearly? In my mind, it's a moot question, you're in Heaven anyway.

>>579420

Possibly.

>>579416

>>579418

>>579420

While all levels are bliss, the levels vary in intensity. To those who have much, more will be given. The highest order of angels are literally "the burning ones" who are ignited with the love of their close proximity to God.

A bad math example would be that while there are many equations approach infinity, some approach infinity quicker than others. You can get to infinity by adding one an infinite number of times, but you will get there far quicker by exponential increase.

>>579423

But I thought that all are judged equally in death. So people who are saved, enter Heaven equally in a sense.

>>579406

Assuming they truly repent, that's just how it is. The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard (Matthew 20: 1-16) deals with just this. Our reward is eternal life–we have no place to judge our Master on how He distributes that reward to others who repent late in life.

I'm going to sound sort of cliche here, but I don't think the partying and degeneracy is really worth it, even in a solely material sense. There's a reason why so many people today are broken. Hedonism is empty–it can never truly satisfy you. Go read Ecclesiastes. Look at the conclusions drawn by Solomon, who had essentially everything he ever wanted in life, but ended realizing that such pleasures are meaningless. But perhaps I'm just a hypocrite; I'm guilty of enjoying my amusements way too much.

>>579416

>so really who cares about levels

I would imagine the difference in pleasure between the "lowest" and "highest" levels of Heaven is tremendous. It would be quite a loss to miss out on a higher level.

>>579425

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that I can go indulge in whoring and adultery, and if at the end of the day I repent and ask God for forgiveness, I'm saved?

>>579425

>but I don't think the partying and degeneracy is really worth it, even in a solely material sense.

Well it's certainly more worth it than living with minimal physical contact for your entire youth, if not even your whole life. I don't get the impression people are broken, they do mundane stuff just like everyone does, it's just that they get to relieve their stress in an arms of a woman, I get to sift at home alone. Or furthermore, while they're waiting for 'the one' they have people to kill time with until that happens while I suffer in frustration and emotional discomfort.

>Look at the conclusions drawn by Solomon, who had essentially everything he ever wanted in life

I know of this. Anyway, it's easy for Solomon to act wise about it because he experienced it all, he had his fill and got bored with it. It's like the 1st glass of Coke, it's amazing, but the 5th one makes you sick. He said well Coke's not worth it, but only after he drank a dozen glasses of it, he thoroughly enjoyed it while it lasted. See what I mean?

>>579429

I know for a fact that if I do have sex or have a one night stand or whatever, I'll immediately regret it afterwards.

>>579430

But you still had a good time, didn't you? At least that psychological need that every man has to prove himself he can be with women is satisfied. And if I were a betting man, I would bet that regretting casual sex is still better than enduring involuntary celibacy.

>>579431

>But you still had a good time, didn't you?

Maybe a typo, but I haven't done it yet, nor will I, I hope. Seeing this thread however is making me question myself and how people can be saved. If I engage in promiscuity my whole life before I settle down, and I repent afterwards, then I could say I lived a fulfilling life, since I had fun on Earth and I will be granted a place in Heaven.

>>579432

Well, according to protestants, faith will save you no matter what you do.

When it comes to the Church though, things get tricky. Church says 'faith that works by charity', which is very close to what protestants say. But on the other had, the Church says if you die in mortal sin you're toast. Mortal sin is contraception, premarital sex, and all the other stuff. So it seems very messy to me, if not contradictory. Does it mean if I am charitable and believe I get to sin as much as I want to and I will still be saved?

The main problem is that if faith is the main part of salvation, the concept of sin is completely invalidated, it's meaningless, you can 'sin' but it has no effect on your salvation.

>>579438

Now I don't know what to do. I'm a Maronite Catholic/Eastern Catholic, so I have to adhere's to the Church's teachings. In this case, which makes more sense to me, is that salvation is attained through faith and through works. What if you rape babies and murder but still believe in God, are you saved? Doesn't seem right with me. Seeing as premarital sex is seen as a mortal sin, with contraception and the other ones, I believe I am making the right choice in not partaking in any of these self indulging pleasures, or so God help me.

>>579432

Here's the deal, Satan constantly whispers in your ear about the hedonistic pleasures you should sample.

He never tells you about the joys and peace of leading a righteous life without addiction and desire for a million appetites.

Addicts often wish they'd never touched the stuff of their addiction - what would their life be like if they hadn't fallen for the "you can't know unless you try it" bullshit.

I can know that shit is bad for me without doing it. It's called being able to learn from others and it comes from wisdom.

I made mistakes with many sins but the one right choice I made, which has blessed me many times over, was waiting until I was married to have sex. I was a virgin until I was 30 and, for the one thing I was able to do right (I fucked up in so many other ways) God gave me a Christian, virgin wife. We're true to each other and have beautiful children together. Our relationship has helped me give up a lot of the other sins I picked up from "just try it once" crap the world spews out.

>>579441

Thank you my man. I needed that. I was adamant in remaining celibate until marriage. One thing still sticks with me however, and that is the idea of repentance after committing many bad deeds. These "hedonists", if you will, can always repent and be saved at the end of the day, so what's the point?

>>579440

Well here are the crucial points:

1. If faith and charity saves me, how can mortal sin 'unsave' me?

2. If the only role of sin in life, provided that you believe in Christ, is putting you in different levels of Heaven, then why not sin? There are no negative emotions in Heaven, right? So even if I'm on the lowest level, I won't regret that I'm not in the higher one, nor will I long to be on a higher one because those are negative emotions, right?

>>579441

>I picked up from "just try it once" crap the world spews out.

You did try it though, right? You tried it for a reason, you tried it because you would regret it if you didn't try it. As I said, it's easy to be sorry about something after you've tried it and I argue that is less gruesome than your frustrations choking you. Also, you're one in a million when it comes to staying a virgin and finding a virgin wife at that age.

>>579445

I see your point.

>>579441

I can only hope and pray that I remain a virgin until marriage and I meet a qt3.14 virgin wife at the same time.

>>579445

>You did try it though, right? You tried it for a reason, you tried it because you would regret it if you didn't try it.

This is the bullcrap of Satan. You don't try it because you -will- regret it, you try it because you -think- you will regret it.

My point, was that I didn't try premarital sex and I absolutely don't regret it, although there was a time when I thought differently, luckily, there wasn't an opportunity until after God showed me why.

It's not even one-in-a-million, there's lots of older virgin girls, but you know what they don't want - a man who's whored himself out to others. If a man can stay celibate til' marriage, he probably won't cheat.

Why are you trying to tempt people?

Desiring things or thinking you'll regret indulging your appetites has a name: lust. It's a sin for a reason because, in actuality, the regret comes from partaking, not avoiding.

>>579447

I'll be honest, she's not a 10/10 by the world's

standards. But, she is super cute, innocent, loyal, and everything I want- she's my 10/10.

God gave me what I should've been looking for all along, not what I thought I wanted.

If you're looking for a blonde model, she's probably already been corrupted by a million men or got taken in marriage at 18. Either get crazy rich and propose to 18 year old's or set your sights on god-fearing and cute but allow for some faults.

Everyone wants a perfect spouse without being perfect themselves. That's a lot of the problem right there. But hoping for a virgin isn't impossible, just don't demand something of your spouse that you yourself couldn't accomplish.

>>579449

That's similar to what I said earlier. If I do partake in these activities, I know I will regret them, same as how I had the period of daily masturbation before I stopped doing it. I would immediately feel regret when I'm 'done' with a session.

>>579449

>This is the bullcrap of Satan.

You say that now, you didn't feel like that when you decided to try those things.

>there's lots of older virgin girls

Not really. You say you don't regret waiting, but if you never married you'd be singing a different tune. Honestly, the main reason why I don't do it because I'm so anti social that I simply don't meet girls anywhere.

>the regret comes from partaking, not avoiding.

I don't think so, people wouldn't do it then. They do it because it makes them feel better than avoidance.

>>579451

Of course, no man is perfect. We can only strive for perfection. Each person has his/her own respective tastes.

>>579453

>You say that now, you didn't feel like that when you decided to try those things.

Annnndd…. your point? I was foolish and young and raised by atheist liberals that taught me to try everything. I ended up in a lot of pain from it and regret it. How was me being dumb in the past an argument for others to act stupidly now?

>Not really. You say you don't regret waiting, but if you never married you'd be singing a different tune. Honestly, the main reason why I don't do it because I'm so anti social that I simply don't meet girls anywhere.

Not at all. I'd become completely satisfied in my celibacy before I met my current wife. I don't think God would've brought me my wife unless I had been. I didn't even pray for a wife; I just prayed for the girl to be a no-show at our arranged date unless God wanted us to be married because I was done with dead-end relationships.

>I don't think so, people wouldn't do it then. They do it because it makes them feel better than avoidance.

Not true at all. People often make unwise decision they regret. That's why we have the word "regret." Your position isn't Christian- are you a Christian or are you just a snake trying to deceive my brethren? If you're a Christian, please support your ideas with scripture.

>>579401

>I still feel I'm missing out on something and that I'm being made a fool of.

You're not. Please stay chaste and maintain your discipline toward God for the glory of God is more important. I'm serious. Not just playing games here, it will be good for you, because our purpose is without exception to glorify God.

>The fact that bothers me the most is that those people will never suffer the consequences of their actions

There is nothing that God doesn't see. There is nothing that is outside of God's plan. You have to have faith that the time of His return is coming and know that God, who designed and created all of the things you want to have right now, rewards his faithful servants. And also that He is perfectly just, and worthy of absolute trust.

>when everything is summed up before our death, we're in completely same position when it comes to salvation.

Luk 19:11-27

>The main problem is that if faith is the main part of salvation, the concept of sin is completely invalidated, it's meaningless, you can 'sin' but it has no effect on your salvation.

Well if you delight in the law of God after the inward man (Romans 7:22) then you want to do whatever brings more glory to God as that is truly fulfilling our purpose. It no longer becomes only about self-fulfillment but also about giving back to God whatsoever he deserves. Knowing that he has made us kings and priests, his representative, and that we will reign on the earth. And therefore each one ought to walk worthy of the vocation where they are called.

>As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children,

>That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

>He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

>Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

>>579635

>lost without God

>>579627

>>579635

Thank you anons, truly. I can only hope and pray that I am able to stand fast against these temptations.

>>579717

>Learn from my mistake.

Thank you anon. If you are not married yet, pray that you find a virgin wife. It seems that you are genuinely regretful for your act of fornication, and I believe that God does acknowledge your sincerity.

>>579398

>they will just repent and go to heaven

t. A child who doesnt understand how sin works and should really read and pray St Alphonsus Ligouri's Preparation for Death.

>>579751

You don't even have to repent since your faith and charity will save you anyway.

>>579524

I know about that 'do well because it pleases God' , but you'll be saved anyway so why bother?

>>579755

>You don't even have to repent since your faith and charity will save you anyway.

>You don't even have to repent since your faith and charity will save you anyway.

>You don't even have to repent since your faith and charity will save you anyway.

Is it just the time of the day or something? Stop this, will you.

>>579772

Thanks for the input anon.

>>579759

Just asking a question.

>>579772

Joyful? For what? For them supposedly repenting only after they've done something so much they've become bored or sick of it? While at the same time a person struggled to keep his mental sanity because he hasn't had physical intimacy with a woman all his life? Sounds like absolute baloney to me. I have friends who have different girls around every week. Sure, they're just as miserable as I am because we don't have a meaningful relationship with a girl, but at least they get to numb the pain.

>Nice subtle shitpost

Again, just an observation. And no one has given a coherent answer so far.

Faith=salvation, so what exactly can 'unsave' you if you have faith?

>>579779

>supposedly repenting

Good thing you're not the judge of true repentance.

>but at least they get to numb the pain.

If you think numbing the pain is better then you don't understand Christianity.

>While at the same time a person struggled to keep his mental sanity because he hasn't had physical intimacy with a woman all his life?

If not having sex threatens your mental sanity then you should stop consuming the Freudian pop psychology that inundates our culture.

I don't mean to be combative, brother, but your perspective is seriously toxic. If you don't feel anything but disdain for sinners then you should probably spend more time praying and reading the bible than posting on 8chan.

>>57977

Also,

>Faith=salvation, so what exactly can 'unsave' you if you have faith?

Depends on what protestant you ask, but we all agree that true saving faith yields works as James 2 among other passages teaches.

>>579789

There's a difference. If you do something once and feel it's wrong and you never do it again. Then there's someone who's been doing something and enjoying it for 20 years. Especially for Christians, your parents and priests tell you your whole life that something is wrong and you still choose to not just do it once, but turn doing those things into a lifestyle. Again, I think it's baloney. Where's the concept of justice here? They are simply happier people.

>If you don't feel anything but disdain for sinners

Where's the concept of justice here? They are simply happier people. They spend their prime years having fun and then after they're done, they just say 'I repent' and what? Baloney.

>If you think numbing the pain is better then you don't understand Christianity.

I refuse to suffer needlessly just like anyone else does.

>If not having sex threatens your mental sanity

I'm doing fine, some people I know are not. You can't say to me with a straight face that a man can go 30 or 40 years without sex and mastrubation and not feel seriously mentally strained.

>true saving faith yields works as James 2 among other passages teaches

I'll rephrase it. You believe and you give to the poor and you help your old neighbor up the stairs. But every weekend you have another girl in your bed.

>>579800

>every weekend you have another girl in your bed.

That's pretty presumptuous

>>579800

>If you do something once and feel it's wrong and you never do it again.

Romans 7:15

>Where's the concept of justice here?

A lust for justice at the expense of charity and mercy is not Christianity. Maybe Islam is more your speed. Seriously, prayerfully re-read the parable of the prodigal son and the parable of the vineyard workers.

>They are simply happier people

>>>>>implying

They're as broken and troubled as you are. They just are better at hiding it but have no real way to deal with it, unlike Christians.

>I refuse to suffer needlessly just like anyone else does.

Christianity doesn't offer a happy carefree life free of suffering. What it does offer is meaning and salvation in and by your suffering.

>You can't say to me with a straight face that a man can go 30 or 40 years without sex and mastrubation and not feel seriously mentally strained.

Don't take it from me, take it from the inspired words of Saint Paul and Our Lord Himself.

>>579971

sola fide and sola scriptura do not lead to an united protestant Church, never has, never will

>>579412

That is not the attitude Christ had towards sinners anon. I confess I have succumbed to degenracy on several occassions. I'm blessed to have a God who loves and forgives me when I come repentent, no matter how long it takes me to come around sometimes. Your post reeks of pride and expresses an animosity towards sinners Christ would not approve of

>>579779

It doesn't matter at what hour the workers are called, even those called at the eleventh hour receive the same wages.

IDK what the "good thief" actually did, probably much worse than mere theft, b/c he was being crucified on the right hand of Jesus. I do know that he was actively mocking Christ while on the cross himself, but he repented earnestly and asked Christ to remember him in His kingdom, and Christ himself said he would be the first in heaven.