/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Here's the Ordodox perspective fwiw:

https://oca.org/reflections/fr.-lawrence-farley/what-is-the-unforgivable-sin

>So then, why was one sin declared unforgivable? And what is this sin? The context of Christ’s declaration reveals it: the sin against the Holy Spirit is the sin of rejecting Christ as a blaspheming deceiver. The Pharisees saw Christ’s miracles and His spectacular exorcisms. They could not deny the reality of the exorcisms; they just said that He could only do such things because He was in league with Satan. “It is only by Beel-zebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons” (Matthew 12:24). (Note in passing their malevolence and hatred of Jesus: they cannot even bring themselves to say His Name. He is “this man”.) This is not just slander against Jesus, but against the Spirit of God Himself, for it declares the Holy Spirit through which Jesus cast out demons (Matthew 12:28) was an unclean spirit. Our Lord’s foes were in fact setting themselves against all that God was doing, rejecting His coming Kingdom as a deception and a fraud. That Kingdom was the only place where grace and forgiveness flowed into the world, so that by continuing to reject the Kingdom, they rejected with it the only source of forgiveness. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was not unforgiveable in the sense that God refused to forgive those who repented of it, but because in persisting in this sin they cut themselves off from the possibility of forgiveness. Jesus was not simply another Jewish teacher. He was the everlasting Son of the Father, so that to see Him was to see the Father (John 14:9), and to reject Him was to reject the Father. That what why rejecting Jesus as demonic cut one off from forgiveness, for it involved rejecting God Himself.

>The pastoral irony of all this, of course, is that any Christian who asks a priest with trembling whether or not he has committed the unforgivable sin cannot possibly have committed it, for the question proves that the one asking it loves Jesus and fears being separate from Him. Let such devout souls fear nothing. They have clearly been caught in the fishermen’s net, along with other fish. Let them persevere in their devotion, and rest assured of final forgiveness.

tl;dr if you're asking the question, then you didn't commit it

The Shepherd loves his sheep, don't worry. God bless.

>>579125

I am in kind of the same water. When I was young and really stupid, when I got myself in a really tight bind I would often say in my head stuffs like "Oh God, oh satan, anyone save me please."

Then it got fully blown into casual devil worship. No, I would not get on my knees, candles, and stuffs. I would ask the devil in my mind for something and what I will pay for it (more often than not, performance in other field for another for example worsened relationship with others for work performance or study). Classic faustian stuff.

Now. I get really scared when I think back about it. Even without the mark, I can still feel those grievous sins on my conscious. I hope the Lord would absolve me of my trespass and forgive this stupid soul.

>>579129

>because in persisting in this sin they cut themselves off from the possibility of forgiveness.

So is it possible for one to be forgiven if he repents from a state of cutting himself off from God? Or is it simply that when a man enters such a state there is no way out? Of course this is a hypothetical question

>any Christian who asks a priest with trembling whether or not he has committed the unforgivable sin cannot possibly have committed it, for the question proves that the one asking it loves Jesus and fears being separate from Him.

I was much heartened to read this, as I have some fears about avoiding this particular sin as well. Thank you very much for your post!

>>579125

>Nothing frightens me more than this

Don't let it do so. If you believe in Christ, I guarantee you have not committed the unpardonable sin.

>Nothing scares me more than that I may have committed the unpardonable sin in the past and no matter how close I try to get to God, it will all be in vain and I will suffer eternal damnation in Hell

You truly deserve hell, but for all your sins, no matter the sins, the promise is sure, 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved'.

>>579144

It's possible that any sin to be forgiven through repentance, but when one puts oneself in a state of complete rejection of God it's not possible for that person to accept God's forgiveness. Therefore they're damned by their own hardness of heart, not because God wont forgive them.

And you're very welcome!

>>579129

spot on.

my question is; can a person even commit this sin today now that Jesus has ascended?

>>579138

sins that dont involve harming other people god will forgive you especially since you were young and immature.

whats the mark?

>>579125

The Holy Spirit is the instrument by which God saves humans. To blaspheme the Holy Spirit is thus to actively reject the means by which God grants salvation. The sin is unpardonable because we cannot simultaneously expect salvation and reject the only means by which we can be saved. We have free will, and God respects that autonomy.

>>579156

I think it's possible.

Like if a person witnesses the work of the Spirit (a miracle, for example), then rejects it's from God and attributes it to evil, then I think he commits the sin.

More generally though, I think this passage is really referring to spiritual pride. When you have such hardness of heart that you call a good thing evil.

>>579158

I think to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, is to deny the workings of the sacraments. How can you be baptized, if you say nothing baptized you? How can your sins be forgiven, if you believe there are no sins to be forgiven, or if you do not believe they can be forgiven?

How can you be saved if you reject Christ?

That's what I think.

>>579176

Our greatest purpose for remaining on 8ch is to bring others trapped in the degeneracy back home.

Our board, I imagine works as a sort of beacon.

People stumble apon it and we can try to bring them back.

>>579176

In his Jesse Lee Peterson interview, he says he does draw a distinction between people who are sodomites and people he thinks are just confused because of either a troubled past or all the weird sexual stuff available now. I don’t have the timestamp tho

Thoughts?

>>579212

David Wood is a cool dude imho. Very insightful.

>>579157

The Mark of the Beast, comes in the Number of the Beast in triforce style. Once you got it, you are utterly screwed. More often than not it will be on your hand, probably left, so you have the option of cutting it off.

>>579249

how can you get it? So that I would be able to avoid it.

>>579125

>Nothing frightens me more than this.

It's a pretty serious condition, i was also thinking about this the other day.

Here is a decent read on it.

http://robertwells.tripod.com/unforgivable.html

>LUKE 12:10, "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven

.

>MARK 3:29, "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."

MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

I think an important part of this is…

>The definition of Blasphemy is expressing a lack of reverence. It is the showing of disrespect toward something sacred. Blaspheming the Holy Spirit occurs when a person who knows better rejects the Word of God which the Holy Spirit is attempting to bring into the heart of that person.

So i guess my question to everyone is, if it's done while in uncertainty does that mean it's not committed? Like if someone is Christian and becomes agnostic does that mean hes blasphemous against the holy spirit, it could have been that he really didn't know enough?

>>579249

>Revelation 13:1-18 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads

Some say the mark of the beast is a metaphor for your thoughts and your actions.

31 *Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven.

Of Spirit or against the Spirit and the Holy Ghost. St. Augustine takes notice, that this is one of the most difficult places in the Scriptures. According to the common exposition, here is not meant a sin committed by speaking against the third person of the blessed Trinity, the Holy Ghost, but that sin by which the obstinate Jews wilfully opposed Christ, and attributed those miracles to Beelzebub, which he performed by the Spirit of God, of which they could not be ignorant, but by a wilful blindness.

The sin here spoken of is that blasphemy, by which the Pharisees attributed the miracles of Christ, wrought by the Spirit of God, to Beelzebub, the prince of devils. Now this kind of sin is usually accompanied with so much obstinacy, and such wilful opposing the Spirit of God, and the known truth, that men who are guilty of it are seldom or ever converted; and therefore are never forgiven, because they will not repent. Otherwise there is no sin which God cannot, or will not forgive to such as sincerely repent, and have recourse to the keys of the Church.

Whosoever he be, says St. Augustine, that believeth not man's sins to be remitted in the Church of God, and therefore despiseth the bounteous mercies of God, in so mighty a work, if he continue in his obstinate mind till death, he is guilty of sin against the Holy Ghost. (Enchir. lxxxiii. ep. 50. in fine.)

32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

It was their duty to have a knowledge of the Holy Ghost, and they obstinately refused to admit what was clear and manifest. Though they were ignorant of the divinity of Jesus Christ, and might take him to be merely the son of a poor artizan, they could not be ignorant that the expelling of demons, and miraculous healing of all diseases, were the works of the Holy Ghost. If, therefore, they refused to do penance for the insult offered to the Spirit of God, in the person of Christ, they could not hope to escape condign punishment. (St. Chrysostom, hom. xlii).

Against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; i.e. they who for want of sufficient instruction, were invincibly ignorant that Christ was God, might more easily be brought to the true knowledge and faith of Christ, and so receive forgiveness of their sins: but if he shall speak against the Holy Ghost, i.e. against the Spirit of God in Christ, and shall oppose the known truth, by attributing to the devil that doctrine, and those miracles, which evidently were from the Spirit and the hand of God, that sin shall never be forgiven him. But how is this consistent with the Catholic doctrine and belief, that there is no sin any man commits of which he may not obtain pardon in this life? To this I answer, that in what manner soever we expound this place, it is an undoubted point of Christian faith, that there is no sin which our merciful God is not ready to pardon; no sin, for the remission of which, God hath not left a power in his Church, as it is clearly proved by those words, Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them, &c. St. Chrysostom therefore expounds these words, shall not be forgiven them, to imply no more, than shall scarcely, or seldom be forgiven; that is, it is very hard for such sinners to return to God, by a true and sincere repentance and conversion; so that this sentence is like to that (Matthew xix. 26.) where Christ seems to call it an impossible thing for a rich man to be saved. In the same place St. Chrysostom tells us, that some of those who had blasphemed against the Holy Ghost, repented, and had their sins forgiven them. St. Augustine, by this blasphemy against the Spirit, understands the sin of final impenitence, by which an obstinate sinner refuseth to be converted, and therefore lives and dies hardened in his sins.

>>579239

His apologetics are of course enlightening, but I have massive reservations about his character after hearing his life story. I know this might be uncharitable, but even taking him at his word as an honest, god-fearing man who truly repented of his evil ways, I can’t help but feel extremely distrustful and uneasy about someone who very nearly murdered his own father in cold blood. You have to have a very black soul to carry something like that out, and by the way he recounted it he didn’t exactly seem consumed by remorse over it.

>>579289

To be fair, I’m not God, and while His mercy, forgiveness and love is infinite, I am nothing compared to Him. I’m not and would never speculate on his standing with God.

>>579176

And people take Anderson seriously because why again? I always assume the "he preaches hard against sin" types have their own weird sins they commit on a daily basis, and that they wouldn't want anybody to know about. Anderson probably does as well.

>>579210

That's because Anderson is "just confused"

>>579315

People like him on this board because his sermons are edgy sperg rants, he’s not really taken seriously by mainstream Christians. On top of his semi-Calvinist soteriology (he believes in predestination, reprobation and perseverance of the saints so halfway there but he’s too prideful to accept an ideology with another man attached to it) he preaches that repentance is works salvation so I wouldn’t call him extremely tough on sin.

>>579125

I had a massive bout of scruples with this about a month or two ago. I always took care not to speak against the Spirit, even in my lapsed years, but recently I remembered an old sin whereby I used the sign of benediction as a joke. I couldn't remember whether or not I said the trinitarian formula in vain, and the paranoia over whether or not I just casually threw away my soul weighed on me like a lead cross, even though I also vaguely remembered punctuating each syllable of whatever I said with a hand movement. At the end of the day, if we trust that the Holy Spirit guides us to the truth, we should trust that the interpretation of everyone teacher from Augustine to Billy Graham, that one commits blasphemy against the spirit when one ultimately, indefensibly chooses to reject the power of God, is true. I prayed that God would take my scruples away, and I tell you that I have never tasted mercy that sweet.

>>579125

Matthew 12:30-32

>>Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy. But the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 3:28-30

>>Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, ‘He has an evil spirit’."

Luke 12:8-10

>>I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

The 6 types of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit are:::

>1. Despair (believing that one's evil is beyond God's forgiveness); 2. Presumption (glory without merit, that is, hope of salvation without keeping the Commandments, or expectation of pardon for sin without repentance); 3. Envying the goodness of another (sadness or repining at another's growth in virtue and perfection); 4. Obstinacy in sin (willful persisting in wickedness, and running on from sin to sin, after sufficient instructions and admonition); 5. Final impenitence (to die without either confession or contrition for our sins), and 6. Impugning the known truth (to argue against known points of faith, and this includes misrepresenting parts or all of the Christian faith to make it seem undesirable).

>>580306

>What is blaspheming the spirit

>ONLY believing you can't be forgiven

>Okay, but is THIS horrible sin blasphemy?

>No, its not

>Okay, what about THIS one

>Only the one I mentioned

>Okay good job but what about…

>>579288

> I can’t help but feel extremely distrustful and uneasy about someone who very nearly murdered his own father in cold blood. You have to have a very black soul to carry something like that out

And Paul was determined to wipe out Christians before his conversion after which he became one of the paragons of virtue and wrote half of the new testament.

Repentance is one of the greatest strengths of man.

>>579365

i don't think you're gay, you just have given up on women. work on improving yourself so you're more confident with women. always remember that if you decide to turn gay, you are doing it because you're settling. you will feel much happier and more fulfilled being hetero.

>>579125

>The Unpardonable Sin

Not accepting Christ's forgiveness would be one