/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>I don't truly believe that the Catholic Church is the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church founded by Christ.

Take that flag off.

>Understanding Orthodox "theology"

Good luck, they don't even understand their own theology.

They're also heretics so don't listen to what they have to say. In one ear and out the other, just like with the Prots.

>>576383

I believe. That doesn't mean my faith is perfect. That's why I'm begging anons for prayers.

>>576383

Vatican 2

Daipers

Catholicism is the final answer. We can learn a lot from the east, but flirting with actual "conversion" is the classic newfag mistake.

"cucked Pope.. cursed V2.. god-tier eastern aesthetics.. muh snowflake mysticism.. thomism & filioque = modernity.. etc. "

..these are the half-thoughts of the big brained ordodox.

>>576428

I'm not even a "muh Vatican 2" person, the difference between what was proposed and what was done is significant.

>>576372

I would go to whichever church you can worship the most 'in spirit and truth' and in the meantime seeking the closer truth.

>>576438

I'm still convinced it's the Catholic Church. I think I get easily impressed by people who know more about things I don't know well.

>>576372

>some of their arguments and philosophical/theological points

Care to share?

>>576439

"..to understand the Catholic Faith you have to understand that it is not primarily about intellect, or even morals: it is about Christ received through the sacraments, because He commanded it, and because those who love Him will do as He commands because they love Him. And He commands as He does because He loves us. Understanding may follow practice, to a greater or lesser degree. But the Catholic faith is a loving response to our King and Redeemer, not an intellectual response to a text…We aren’t saved (or damned) because we have adopted the right (or wrong) sets of propositions. We are saved because God has adopted us – if we choose to cooperate with His love and grace. And the ordinary means that He uses to impart His love, to gift us with His grace is – because He has chosen for it to be – the Sacraments."

>>576392

V2 ain't ecumenical , new friend.

>>576372

You sound like you have other problems too, and are not living the life you would like to live, am I right?

>I feel like part of it is because I keep feeling overwhelmed by all of the sins of my past and since some Orthodox don't consider Catholic Baptisms valid, being Baptized by the Orthodox would mean I'd be truly starting over.

In confession ALL your sins are forgiven, erased, destroyed, you truly start over.

>>576372

I'm Catholic, I stay in the RCC not for the pope or any of the hierarchy. I stay here because, for how much of a whore the Church can be, it is God who wished it, who married it. I am sorry to hear you want to leave, but it's a battle we cannot fight for you…you have free will, you can leave any time, make mistakes and then assess where you want to go.

I lived a wasteful life until I'd say a year or so ago; now I want to become a better Christian and a better son of God and the Church. As for yourself, I'll pray for you, but there's nothing else I can or anyone else can do.

…and if you convert: don't become one of those smug converts who keep shouting how incredibly stupid (in their opinion) we are for not having converted yet: alas I lost a few friends over this, and it's kinda painful seeing them quoting saints about being gentle and humble and then pretty much act like bullies (even if many others are nice people who disagree with us and can have good debates without hatred, a few rotten apples on both sides only make them harder to bear).

>>576482

>and if you convert: don't become one of those smug converts who keep shouting how incredibly stupid (in their opinion) we are for not having converted yet: alas I lost a few friends over this, and it's kinda painful seeing them quoting saints about being gentle and humble and then pretty much act like bullies (even if many others are nice people who disagree with us and can have good debates without hatred, a few rotten apples on both sides only make them harder to bear).

yeah, I don't know how it flies completely over their heads how God cares more about you being humble than having the theology exactly right, catholics do this also

>>576486

We all do irrational things…I was a furry and I believed as long as it was not a sexual thing it was fine. Then it dawned on me how stupid I was when I heard of gay (not homosexuals, those who bear their sexual problem and fight against it, I'm talking those who practice sodomy and are proud and boastful about their damning and degenerate behavior) "Christians", and I told myself "How can they live in sin and say they love God?"…and then I realized my own hypocrisy. We are but sinners, we are always in need to better ourselves through God and the Holy Spirit gifts.

>>576486

>God cares more about you being humble than having the theology exactly right

Having imperfect knowledge is common to man, but Christians must strive nonetheless to be perfect. It's the effort that counts.

>>576492

indeed…still, we need to always be careful not to turn away from our humbleness. I had a few cold showers for being smug myself…and this put me back in place (I honestly deserved that reality check punch).

>>576451

In terms of what? I don't like my life, but I've also got a lot of my sins under control. Since June probably over 90% of the content my confessions is old stuff that keeps being dredged up from my memory - I've confessed things from as young as 6 years old (I'm 29).

>>576481

I know, but almost every time I feel like I make a mistake or don't explain in enough detail, and I remember old sins (given that we're on an image board you know exactly what kind of sins I'm speaking about) that make me feel like I'll never confess everything in full.

>>576482

I'm not converting. EENS.

>>576498

It seems to me that you're restless, seeing as you keep questioning your past actions and even confessions, because your intellectual needs aren't being satisfied to your liking. Have you thought about being more active in community life?

May God grant you peace and mercy.

>>576519

I don't really know my community very well and how I'd even get to know it.

>>576558

Thanks, Orthobro. Still, submit to the Roman pontiff.

>>576372

First, any baptism administered while saying 'I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghos' is a valid baptism, even if administered by a Zulu animist in Africa. It's just that baptism outside of the Church is illicit ie it's illegal, let's say.

Secondly, read Catholic theology before 1955. Modern theology has little to do what the Church taught for 1900 years. Also, read Feser's book on Aquinas, st Thomas Aquinas is the pillar of the Church. Christ Himself appeared to him and told him he was his good servant so you can be sure those words are blessed by God. His Summa was on the altar alongside the Bible during the Council of Trent. Stay faithful to the doctrine, even if our shepherds stray, we have our tradition to lean on. It's what your ancestors believed and what we believe.

I honestly have yet to find anything in official Orthodox theology that goes directly against Catholic teaching so you should be fine if you find yourself agreeing with them in some ways. Some Catholic theologians might say the exact same thing. The main thing the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are split over is the papacy.

>>576605

Yeah, my thinking was that I need to really buckle down and Aquinas it up at some point.

>>576619

Don't jump into Summa, you'll just get overwhelmed.Buy this book, it's just 8 bucks:

https://www.amazon.com/Aquinas-Beginners-Guide-Guides-ebook/dp/B00O0G3BEW/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1513885552&sr=1-1&keywords=edward+feser+aquinas

It'll help you see the world through, let's say, Aquinas' glasses, you'll learn to think a certain way. As for specific theological problems, just try googling it. For example, when it comes to the Filioque:

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1036.htm

Or here's his book called 'On the errors of the Greeks', there's a nice list of contents here:

http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraErrGraecorum.htm

>>576621

Thanks for the suggestions!

>>576586

>I don't really know my community very well and how I'd even get to know it.

Do you go to church? Usually there's a board with upcoming event somewhere near the entrance.

>>576668

You do realize that the name of the new theology is literally The new theology?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouvelle_Théologie

Ecumenism, freedom of religion, rites of sacraments, rite of mass, all changed. The head of the Angelicum at the time, one of the greatest Thomists ever, formally and explicitly wrote against the new theology:

https://archive.org/stream/Garrigou-LagrangeEnglish/_Where%20is%20the%20New%20Theology%20Leading%20Us__%20-%20Garrigou-Lagrange%2C%20Reginald%2C%20O.P_#page/n0/mode/2up

The new theology replaced Thomism, which went explicitly against what numerous popes said about Thomism.

Go read Pius IX's Syllabus of errors. Vatican 2 explicitly went against it and cardinal Ratzinger said they were fully aware of it and that it was the time to modernize. Or Leo XIII's encyclicals on religious liberty, Pius XI on ecumenism, Gregory XVI on ecumenism, etc.

I'll just give you an example of something formally condemned in Pius IX's Syllabus of errors:

>15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. — Allocution “Maxima quidem,” June 9, 1862; Damnatio “Multiplices inter,” June 10, 1851.

>77. In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship. — Allocution “Nemo vestrum,” July 26, 1855.

>78. Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship. — Allocution “Acerbissimum,” Sept. 27, 1852.

>80. The Roman Pontiff can, and ought to, reconcile himself, and come to terms with progress, liberalism and modern civilization.- -Allocution “Jamdudum cernimus,” March 18, 1861.

Now you explain to me how is that not different from Vatican 2's teaching.

>>576667

My church's congregations is mostly older people, with a smattering of early-middle-age moms with young kids. There's not much in my age range (mid-twenties to mid-thirties) so I feel somewhat isolated.

>>576673

Maybe try to organize something yourself

>>576674

Difficult but possible.

I will pray for you anon.

Haven't read through the rest of the thread, but perhaps make sure to take some time to just enter the Church and pray quietly in front of adoration or something to help you out?

I'd imagine if you feel the presence of Christ in a moment like that you'll feel a bit stronger in your faith. Best wishes to you anon and I'll keep my prayers on you.

>>576685

Also OP reading up a bit I see you're having issues with confession and past sins.

Have you heard the term Scrupulosity? If not maybe look it up, it may apply to you and is an issue.

One of the important things about the sacrament of reconciliation is that you are forgiven of all sins. God knows why you were there, God knows you were contrite and truly want forgiveness, and God knows all the sins that you've done in the past that you didn't remember to confess. The thing is God knows your heart, and would know if you did remember these sins you would be seeking forgiveness. I guess i'm just trying to hammer this in, but the important thing is being sincere in seeking absolution. God knows you, God loves you, and he forgives you. Do not doubt this.

One little thing I always do in confession is once I finish listing all the sins I can think of, I also include something along the lines of "I also confess any other sins that I have committed that do not come to mind, and have no intention of avoiding confessing them."

Phrased poorly, but you get the gist. It may help you out. God bless you Brother.

>>576672

"Nouvelle Théologie" doesn't refer to the modern theology as a whole, rather to a certain current in it.

>Ecumenism

Provided it's guided by the proper, Catholic doctrine, which it usually is when it's done by the Church, what's wrong with it?

>freedom of religion

Again, read pre-modern sources to see what the Church really taught and meant the time the condemnations like the ones you posted were given:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14763a.htm

>rites of sacraments, rite of mass

This isn't a new thing at all. Relevant authorities have the power to do such things.

>>576445

this

>>576685

>>576687

Scrupulosity is absolutely an issue. I've known that without doubt. My problem is that I'm not the more familiar worries-about-everything-being-a-sin type of scrupulous, I'm the always-thinking-that-I've-done-confessed-wrong type of scrupulous which is less discussed. My problem is that something almost ALWAYS comes to mind and I'm afraid of sacrilege. Thanks for your prayers.

>>576672

>Vatican 2 explicitly went against it and cardinal Ratzinger said they were fully aware of it and that it was the time to modernize. Or Leo XIII's encyclicals on religious liberty, Pius XI on ecumenism, Gregory XVI on ecumenism, etc.

Excuse me that's not true.

Are you telling me that the Gates of Hell won with their "modernity" doctrine? Read the bible, Jesus explicitly says "The gates of hell shall not win against it" when talking about Peter's church.

Whatever you've read is fake.

>>576725

>>576445

The one that really struck close to me and made me wonder has to do with the essence-energy distinction and the knowability of God. The argument, apparently coming from Palamas's writings against Barlaam, was that using analogy of created things as the foundation of our ability to know God (as per the Thomistic-Aristotelian analogia entis) is the road to atheism. What makes this seem plausible to me, and something that warrants argument, is that, as one article I read said, atheistic/materialistic ideologies originated in the West before being (((imported))) to Russia and other Eastern countries. Some of the soteriology also was extremely tempting to me on aesthetic grounds, which is a dangerous path to take. Another big problem is my own lack of knowledge of theology, especially Aquinas, which I may need to mend. Also, I just don't really know the Patristic writings that the Easterners esteem so highly - in Catholic high school classes that touch on theology and Church history you basically go from the Bible to Augustine to Aquinas in terms of key theological figures, and there's a lot of gaps in there (I'm pretty sure I never heard of Arius and Nestorius until the last three years or less.)

>>576759

If you're worried about SSPX schismatics, go to an FSSP mass instead. Similar in form, but in full communion with the Church.

>>576759

>schismatics

wrong

>>576885

>I'm going to consecrate bishops without papal approval

>Don't do that

>I did it

>That means you're all automatically excommunicated

>Nuh uh

>>576885

You don't get to be a part of something if that something says you're not part of it. Until full communion with Rome is established, SSPX is not valid and encouraging people to attend SSPX mass is leading them away from the Catholic Church.