/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Also, general lutheranism vs catholicism thread.

>the traditional religion of my people

>cool, mysterious and A E S T H E T I C

I hope these are not your reasons for converting.

>>570530

Obviously not.

>>570532

Well, what is the main difference between lutheranism and catholicism that you struggle the most?

>>570526

>lutheranism (the traditional religion of my people)

Where you from?

if catholisism didnt look bad before, now is even lower then usual with the embarrassing pope and all that

>>570526

Last time I checked, the Lutherans do have icons and coloured windows in their churches, but they don't "venerate" them.

>>570545

The numbers don't matter. That being said, The rest of your comment is true.

>Emperor picks patriarchs

Disgusting.

>>570542

>lutheranism cuts out some of the ugly heresies of catholicism, and has better biblical exegesis/theology. The problem is a lot of lutheran churches (vast majority) are subverted by liberalism. And as time goes on this subversion will only get worse and worse, with very few exceptions to be found. The higher, trad lutheran churches are becoming more and more rare and their attendances are dying.

What this anon said, however, there still are large "confessional" lutheran church bodies. Confessional meaning they subscribe entirely to the Book of Concord and reject liberalism. If you are in America the largest of these bodies is the LCMS (which Im a part of) and the second is WELS which is also good. In Europe they are harder to find but they do exist.

>>570526

If your people were lutheran it means they converted to it and were Catholic before that, so by begoming Catholic you would not go against them at all, only correct the errors of some of your ancestors

>>570542

Everyday I see the orthoprot meme becoming truer and truer. A protestant will accept everything Orthodoxy believes and that was their reason to become protestants in the first if it means still not accepting the authority of the Pope. Protestantism is not fueled by faith, but by hate, and a rejection of Christ's will. Just like the pharisees rejected Christ for what he wanted to do, not in line with their personal thirsts, you reject the Catholic Church because "muh Pope".

>>570526

I won't quote the Bible to nudge you towards Catholicism but think about this:

All Churches founded by the Apostles (Rome ie Catholic, Antioch/Constaninople ie Orthodox, Alexandria ie Copts and Syrians) have 99% the same theology and sacraments. Is that a coincidence do you think?

>>570570

Cute

I will quote some Augustinian monk from Germany, in the eve of protestant rebelion, maybe heard of him, was named Luther.

Letter of said monk to Leo X, May 30, 1518:

Therefore, most holy father, I prostrate myself at your feet, placing myself and all I am and have at your disposal, to be dealt with as you see fit. My cause hangs on the will of your Holiness, by whose verdict I shall either save or lose my life. Come what may, I shall recognise the voice of your Holiness to be that of Christ, speaking through you. If I merit death, I do not refuse to die, for ” the earth is the Lord’s,” and all that is therein, to whom be praise to all eternity ! Amen. May He preserve your Holiness to life eternal.

>>570573

Which Apostolic Churches have protestant Mariology? None. I don't need men from the 21st century to explain to me what 'authentic' Christian doctrine is. It is absolutely clear, it is the same as it always was.

I am not interested in debates and literary analysis, unless you can prove to me there was a conspiracy of massive proportions during the 1st century where all Apostolic Churches adopted heresies and that before adopting them they held protestant views on everything, you have no reason to talk to me.

>>570577

Aaaand this why pseudo-isidorian decretals exist when people start asking the real questions.

>>570597

Aaaaaand it's a protestant claiming the evil Church fabricated the entire history of Christianity.

https://suscopts.org/resources/literature/orthodox-faith/mariology/

>From early times, the Church has called her Mother of God (Gr. Theotokos), a title that

implies that her Son is both fully man and fully God.

Here's what's Copts say.

http://syrianorthodoxchurch.org/2010/02/the-holy-virgin-mary-in-the-syrian-orthodox-church/

>Ever since its existence our Syrian Orthodox Church has incessantly extolled the Virgin Mary’s virtues and canonized her as a patron saint of the church, repeating her Holy name in church prayers day and night.

Here's what the Syrian Orthodox say.

Either they're all lying or you're wrong.

>>570603

The whole reason why Baptists reject the title "Mother of God" because it sounds like it predisposes that God is create and Mary part of the Godhead. Of course, traditionally, the title was to recognize Jesus as divine, but when they see you *ahem* "venerate" Mary then call her 'Theotokos' they assume you're elevating Mary to idolatrous levels.

>ver since its existence our Syrian Orthodox Church has incessantly extolled the Virgin Mary’s virtues and canonized her as a patron saint of the church, repeating her Holy name in church prayers day and night.

The video already discussed this.

>>570609

Oh sure, let Baptist explain what the Churches actually mean by that term, since the Churches who have always used it don't know the meaning of the term.

>The video already discussed this.

I'm not watching a 3 hour video about protestant conspiracy theories. As I said, if you're gonna attack Catholics, you automatically attack the entirety of Apostolic Christianity, most of which is not even in communion with Rome, but you always conveniently don't mention that.

Here's what the Copts, who are not in communion with Rome, say:

>Our Lord Jesus Christ did not write a book, He did not document His blessed teachings on paper, but He chose His disciples who accompanied Him day and night. They absorbed His teachings and learned directly from Him. He sent them to teach the whole world and to make disciples of all nations

>Christianity is, therefore, a religion that is Tradition-bound and is strongly committed to discipleship. No wonder, then, that the Apostles preferred verbal teaching to the written one

And they even believe in the Assumption of Mary. The Syrians claim that Apostle John ordered the faithful to celebrate a feast dedicated to Our Lady.

You can join the original 2000 year church, or you can join the 500 year old rebellion that is responsible for the collapse of traditional Christian morality.

you can be a Baptist, and join a 90 year old church made almost exclusively to attack the 2000 year old one too

>>570611

>I'm not watching a 3 hour video about protestant conspiracy theories. As I said, if you're gonna attack Catholics, you automatically attack the entirety of Apostolic Christianity, most of which is not even in communion with Rome, but you always conveniently don't mention that.

What a way to demonstrate ignorance.

The video a debate, a debate with a catholic in position of the argument.

>>570609

>because it sounds like it predisposes that God is create and Mary part of the Godhead

hello im catholic

what are you talking about? never heard of this.

>>570609

>because it sounds like it predisposes that God is create and Mary part of the Godhead.

I'm genuinely interested, please show your reasoning here.

>>570542

It's really the ELCA as a body that has committed to these secular ethics, often in direct violation of God's word. For Pete's sake, 66% of ELCA pastors say they support gay marriage.

Fortunately LCMS and WELS churches are growing while ELCA is bleeding members. I go to a WELS chapel with a lot of young families and good sermons. I'd recommend finding a confessional Lutheran church near you

Mary was a sinner and had children after Jesus

>>570735

Thus, too, they preached of the advent of God in the flesh to the world, His advent by the spotless and God-bearing Mary in the way of birth and growth, and the manner of His life and conversation with men, and His manifestation by baptism, and the new birth that was to be to all men, and the regeneration by the layer

-On the End of the World

St. Hippolytus would beg to differ in regards to her having ever sinned.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3007.htm

St. Jerome would beg to differ in regards to her having other children.

After reading through the thread and doing some thinking, I think I'm leaning catholic. Problem is, my family will probably disown me if I become a catholic. I'm not sure if I'm ready for that.

>>570567

>>570556

*cough*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Papacy

>>570756

Mary was a sinner saved by grace. How shameful that her name is used so blasphemously by your religion.

45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Romans 3

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

>>570651

>>570723

As far as I understand it, Mary can be called the Mother of God because she is the mother of Jesus, who is God. However, the term "Mother of God" could also be misconstrued to imply that Mary predates or created God as your mother predates or "created" you.

>>570759

No matter what choice you make, don't let worldly factors like the approval of men have any influence on you. Eternity is what matters, not the present.

That said, you really shouldn't let some anonymous sinposters on a deindexed Peruvian yodeling board make such huge decisions for you. Sure, listen to the points made by either side, but I'd look into more… serious arguments first.

>>570759

>Problem is, my family will probably disown me if I become a catholic.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

>>570769

>However, the term "Mother of God" could also be misconstrued to imply that Mary predates or created God as your mother predates or "created" you.

I suppose it could, technically speaking, be understood like this, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone actually interpreting the title in this way.

>>570526

I find myself in a similar debacle sometimes. I find Lutherans, as >>570542 states, have generally better theology, especially regarding justification and soteriology. As long as one stays with a confessional body (such as the LCMS), there isn't too much of a danger of liberalization. However, I think the Roman Church has a more sound ecclesiology. I also appreciate the wealth of resources they have, especially for praying the Breviary. Discern what weight each of those has. Pray much. Visit both kinds of churches. I've heard TLM gives you the best of the Roman Church, though I haven't been to one yet. Lutheran Mass is pretty comfy as well, and I've heard some very good homilies in my time.

>>570577

>Protestand Mariology

Lutherans (since that's what the thread is about) affirm both Theotokos and perpetual viriginity:

>24] On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed Virgin, bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother's womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin. (FC VIII.24)

In fact, I'm fairly certain that both the Assumption and Immaculate Conception are acceptable views for Lutherans, and so is praying the rosary with the pre-Trent Hail Mary.

>>570788

>In fact, I'm fairly certain that both the Assumption and Immaculate Conception are acceptable views for Lutherans, and so is praying the rosary with the pre-Trent Hail Mary.

The immaculate Conception is not held by Lutherans because of Romans 3:23, but the perpetual virginity and the assumption of Mary are adiaphora and are held by many lutherans.

>>570568

>Protestantism is not fueled by faith, but by hate

This is not that I see at all. In fact, reading through this board, more often than not, what I see is Catholics attacking Protestants and screeching "Extra ecclesiam nulla salus" while whining about "anti-Catholic bigotry" and how "Protestantism is fueled by hate." Maybe it's just the content that is allowed to survive here biased moderation is fairly obvious, but is this perhaps a case of the papist crying out as he strikes you?

To put it another way, one of the reasons that I decided to become a Lutheran and did not even consider Catholicism a couple years back when I realized zionist Christianity is awful is because of the behavior of Catholics on this board. "You shall know them by their fruit."

>>570826

Ah, thank you for the correction. I figured perpetual virginity was affirmed because of the "and nevertheless remained a virgin" portion of the quote.

>>570759

Do it anon! As a person with close family who are "reformed" baptists I can attest that while it may be hard at first, fully immersing yourself in God's grace is well worth the worldly discomfort.

>>570765

It seems to be awfully reading into the text to say that "low estate" necessarily implies having sinned in the past. It seems more logical to understand it in the sense of her humility and reliance on God. The Greek word being "tapinosin" seems to allude to this. Denying the Immaculate Conception seems to nullify the second part that "all generations shall call [her] blessed."

Considering the fact that St. Paul was addressing the Romans and not Mary herself, I think it's safe to say that he was using a rhetorical device, and not inculcating the fact the Mary had sinned.

The Catholic Church's very dogmatization of the Immaculate Conception points out how, even though Mary had not sinned, she still required the grace of God to have lived in such a state.

We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which asserts that the Blessed Virgin Mary, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God, and in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, was preserved free from every stain of original sin is a doctrine revealed by God and, for this reason, must be firmly and constantly believed by all the faithful.

-Ineffabilis Deus

I would ask you to consider that when the Angel Gabriel addressed Mary why did St. Luke record the word "kecharitomene", a word that is used nowhere else in Scripture.

>>570526

Jew not smelly enough

>>570526

>(the traditional religion of my people)

>(cool, mysterious and A E S T H E T I C)

Shoo shoo LARPer

>>570735

Vade retro Satana

>>570851

> In fact, reading through this board, more often than not, what I see is Catholics attacking Protestants and screeching "Extra ecclesiam nulla salus"

That is not scheeching, that is just a fact

>perhaps a case of the papist crying out as he strikes you?

it seems obvious to me you feel emotional and threatened by people disagreeing with you. Nowhere in my post did I make an emotional appeal, I simply gave facts. Protestantism was born out of a rejection of sound doctrine, and therefore can never have sound doctrine because if it did, it would stop being protestantism. Sorry if that hurts your feelings, facts usually do.

> is because of the behavior of Catholics on this board. "You shall know them by their fruit."

What a prima donna. If you were really rational and not motivated by the hatred you feel for the Church (that you hide so poorly) you would be able to see the awful fruits of protestantism. Any fruit of Catholicism will always be bad for you because it comes from Catholicism, period. It is a sad state of affairs, again I repeat, protestants like jews have a veil over your eyes, it is up to divine mercy to lift it up, but it's not going to happen as long as you see the Catholic Church as evil and wrong by principle and you base your beliefs off that.

>>570759

Don't tell them yet. Wait until the time is right. Also, talk to a priest, go to your local parish and tell the priest about your worries. Also, pray and ask God for guidance.

>>571173

what's the story presented in this painting? As in who is the guy with the hat and who/what is Christ gesturing to?

>>571147

>That is not screeching, that is just a fact

Even if it were true, it is not spoken in charity but in malice.

>Protestantism was born out of a rejection of sound doctrine

Sound doctrine like an abuse of indulgences? Cool.

>hatred I feel for the Church

I feel no such thing. I lament the fact that I cannot in good conscience be Catholic. I WISH I could be Catholic, but it is not reconcilable with the truth. This hatred for you is something you are creating, painting yourself as a victim. Perceived Victimhood creates power in modernity (see minorities and LGBTQWTFBBQSODOM). Understand I have no hatred for you or for the Roman Church. Disagreement != hatred.

>hurr durr facts hurting feelings

wow so edgy

>>571258

>Sound doctrine like an abuse of indulgences? Cool.

It's called "abuse of indulgences" precisely because it's not doctrine.

>>571258

>Sound doctrine like an abuse of indulgences

Good God it's been how many hundred years? No one is defending it, it was horrible, but it's not the reason to live without the sacraments and die in mortal sin. For God's sake at least join the Orthodox and have a valid confession before you die if a few corrupt popes selling indulgences bothers you so much. Besides, protestant televangelists conned infinitely more people out of their money than indulgences did.

>>571213

The rich young ruler

>>571275

nice thanks

>>571267

It was an example. I have other issues (Treasury of Merit, Communion under one species, etc). It was just an obvious choice.

>>570760

People also forget the times when the Arian tribe called the Ostrogoths formally approved each Pope when he was chosen

>>570542

/thread

>>571258

>Even if it were true, it is not spoken in charity but in malice.

again, there is no malice. Facts are facts. Charity means telling people the truth, which is what I did. You are just projecting your hurt feelings because out of pride you don't want to convert.

>Sound doctrine like an abuse of indulgences? Cool.

Is that all you could come up with? lmao

>I WISH I could be Catholic, but it is not reconcilable with the truth

You are right, we don't have the truth, we have the Truth, much different.

> This hatred for you is something you are creating, painting yourself as a victim

lol what? I never painted ourselves as a victim. I only pointed out your hate for the Church. Seems to me like you are projecting one again. The only victim here is your soul, that is put in danger by your rebellion against the Deposit of the Faith. There is no victimhood for those who follow the Church in the fullness of the Truth she preserves, at best there is martyrdom, but I would never complain about that.

>Understand I have no hatred for you or for the Roman Church. Disagreement != hatred.

Nah, you do have hatred, your whole sect was born out of hatred for the Catholic Church, it is part and parcel of every doctrine you came up with. Feel free to pretend otherwise though, I won't try to stop you.

>>570526

>and catholicism (cool, mysterious and A E S T H E T I C)

im laughing. bro you know you have to be 18 to post here

>>571705

Oh that means St. Luke lied about St. John the baptist's parents being blameless. That also means 2 month old babies sin?

Romans 3 9-12 means Christ sinned? Thanks for clarifying that bro.

>>571705

All you Baptists ever do is quote Romans while ignoring the Gospel. Baptists confirmed for Paulites and not Christian.

>>571747

This is pretty low on the tiers of arguments. Also are you saying some scripture disagrees with others?

>>571722

Nice straw man. Look up the occurrences of "blameless" and of "without sin" in the Bible to refute your own position. They aren't the same thing. Try making a good faith argument next time instead of attempting to misconstrue me to the greatest extent you can, otherwise this conversation can go nowhere. Which is perhaps your goal here, just to sow confusion and discord (and try to get the other side banned due to mods) instead of trying to ascertain or clarify the truth.

>>571755

>Why did St. Luke record the Angel Gabriel using the word "kecharitomene" to address Mary? A word that is used nowhere else in Scripture.

>>571731

The Church of Rome has never been brought as low as the Orthodox Church. The NO mass, or the Pope doing silly PR is nowhere near as bad as Having Stalin literally run the church

If you must choose, Catholic. In my opinion, Orthodox.

>>570542

lol the reason this post has so many replies is just because it's true

>>570568

Not every Orthodox convert is a Protestant who wants apostolicity without the pope. My family were nominal Catholics who stopped going to church when I was a child. When I wanted to return to Christianity, I initially thought Catholicism was where I needed to go. After studying, I realized the historical case for the papacy is actually a lot weaker than I initially thought.

While I'm not going to deny there is a lot of knee-jerk anti-Rome sentiment among some Protestant converts, and yes, they do tend to be the ones who are most uncharitable towards Catholics. But I'm fairly sure that most Orthodox converts end up here rather than Catholicism because they don't think the historical record justifies the current Catholic view of the pope.

>>571950

>Having Stalin literally run the church

Matthew 16:18 "The gates of hell shall not prevail"

nice heresy you spouted over here schismatic

>>570526

>Help me decide between the two. I'm really torn between lutheranism (the traditional religion of my people) and catholicism (cool, mysterious and A E S T H E T I C)

You speak of this as if it's a matter of vanity….

Step 1) Obtain a Bible of accurate translation, 1611 KJV for English language.

Step 2) Read the Bible.

Do not idolize the institutions of men.

Catholism is satanic in nature. It rose from the ashes of the fallen Roman empire, murdered thousands of Christians and attempted to outlaw the bible. It would then pervert the word of God by rewriting the Bible and changing scripture to suit their agenda, which was mostly political. To this day, the catholic church remains as a den of demons seeking to exploit well-meaning people by leading them away from God.

The Bible is all that you need, and speaking with other about scripture can help you form a closer relationship with God. All other so-called religions lead you down the same path, away from God and away from an eternal life in the kingdom of Jesus.

>>570735

>(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

catholic mods are fascist abusers of power

catholics will never stop persecuting innocent baptists

>>581889

Here's what Dr. Frank Logsdon, project member of the translation committee who made the NASB says about the NASB translation.

https://streamable.com/jj12y

>>581599

>implying the orthodoxy is the true church of peter

>>581949

>the jesuits were founded to corrupt the TR and the KJV

Just … lol

>>581928

They're not wrong, "blameless" and "without sin" are two different things. By attributing divine attributes to Mary, you are taking away from the distinct reason why the man Jesus Christ is the savior and the sole mediator between God and man.

Hebrews 4:14-15

Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Romans 4:13-16

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

1 Timothy 2:5-6

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Romans 6:17-18

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Louis de Montfort was a blasphemous heretic and right now he is burning in the depths of hell. Right along with whoever made up the "version" of Jesus Christ in Islam. Mary magnified God, but you did not.

>>582582

>you are taking away from the distinct reason why the man Jesus Christ is the savior and the sole mediator between God and man.

Explain how. Because without Christ, even Mary Herself, sinless as she was, would not have been saved, and would instead have passed on to the Bosom of Abraham with all the other pre-Christian saints.

>Louis de Montfort was a blasphemous heretic and right now he is burning in the depths of hell.

Lord have mercy on this anon, for he has no idea what he is talking about.

>>582628

I did read it. I wouldn't have asked if it were clear.

It also agrees with what I said that no one, not even Mary, Immaculate as she was, could be saved without Him.

So, try again: how does her being immaculate and full of grace, detract from Christ?

>Or, you can just die without understanding in blindness like Montfort did.

Such pride.

>>582633

>how does her being immaculate and full of grace, detract from Christ?

You're saying there are some that didn't need him. Yes, you absolutely are. For the reason Christ is the ransom for all is because only He fulfilled the law, and though we were servants of sin, he made us, all of us, free from sin. Due to His righteousness.

>immaculate

Now you're retreating into fancy words. Because the obvious contradiction must be masked.

>>582638

>You're saying there are some that didn't need him. Yes, you absolutely are.

Care to point out exactly where I said it?

Protip: you can't.

>Now you're retreating into fancy words. Because the obvious contradiction must be masked.

<Thems thar faynsee wurds.

I'll continue to use "sinless" if it makes you feel more comfortable, but since immaculate literally means "stainless" I will continue to use it.

>>582642

>Care to point out exactly where I said it?

When you subscribed to Montfort's damnable heresy. A man who lived his life in ignorance of the truth and died and is now in hell.

>>582646

For talking's sake, let's say I did subscribe to it (since my main concern was in fact your assertion that a certain person is in fact in Hell).

What part of it do you disagree with? Or did you just read some Baptist blurb about him which called him a pagan mariolator and decided not to investigate further? Do you even know what you are talking about?

>>582652

I believe that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, that Jesus the Son of God is our single mediator and is our high priest being without sin, and that that He gave himself a ransom for all. That's all you need to know.

>>582654

I didn't ask you that.

What specific verse/chapters/books etc. do you disagree with from de Montfort to say that he merits damnation? You have to provide something concrete that you object to because I'm not shadow boxing with you any more.

Or maybe you are just lying through your teeth and don't know what you are talking about.

>>582656

The part where he says Mary was sinless, so pretty much all of it. It's a bunch of idolatrous nonsense that none of the apostles or anyone else saved would tolerate, because it's nowhere to be found in and it contradicts the words of Scripture, and it's basically your little snowflake doctrine that you picked up and used to make your own little religion around despite it being an invention of the human mind, starting pretty much with the perverted non-priest Montfort. Which is an appalling doctrine of devils that subverts the core of the New Testament gospel: but since they've seared your conscience so completely already, it must not make a difference to you, or you wouldn't be here disputing any of this right now and denouncing the gospel and essentially calling the same a lie, which I take as a banworthy offense and violation of rule 2.

See Galatians 1 verse 9. You've corrupted the gospel of Christ.

>>582718

> perverted non-priest Montfort

>perverted

now you're spreading unsubstantiated calumny.

>>570542

papists on suicide watch

>>570545

to be fair we include alot of heretics under that 1 billion, shit tier lib caths and fucking voodoo are considered not only christian but catholic under the new church

>>570735

This was in no way worthy of a ban

Lutheranism is like Catholic-lite. A lot of the same culture but with none of the dogma. They're anything-goes and approve of gay marriage, women preaching, abortion, hormonal birth control, etc you name it. I know it's appealing for being traditional to your culture but is Lutheranism a faith that will challenge you to grow? Remember that God's kingdom is not of this world, anon. Your real home is in heaven.

>>570735

Which rule did this person break?

>>570542

>how to spot a nigga who dont know what the fuck he's talking about: the post

>>582638

>You're saying there are some that didn't need him.

""The immunity from original sin was given to Mary by a singular exemption from a universal law through the same merits of Christ, by which other men are cleansed from sin by baptism. Mary needed the redeeming Saviour to obtain this exemption, and to be delivered from the universal necessity and debt (debitum) of being subject to original sin. The person of Mary, in consequence of her origin from Adam, should have been subject to sin, but, being the new Eve who was to be the mother of the new Adam, she was, by the eternal counsel of God and by the merits of Christ, withdrawn from the general law of original sin. Her redemption was the very masterpiece of Christ's redeeming wisdom. He is a greater redeemer who pays the debt that it may not be incurred than he who pays after it has fallen on the debtor. "