/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Theology 101: Homoousis

God didn't suddenly stop being God when He took on flesh

>>567716

You're just restating the issue, not actually explaining it.

How can the infinite become something contrary to itself?

>>567720

ever considered that infinite might mean every possibility including the finite ones? Why cant an infinite being have multiple minds and manifestations? your being rather ridged

>>567728

>Why cant an infinite being have multiple minds and manifestations?

Manifestation is a tricky word because its more like a reflection making an appearance, the being isn't actually taking on a nature/essence of a different type. Instead he's presenting himself or his energy, to others in some observable way.

With Jesus we don't say he was simply a manifestation of God but actually God himself, taking on a finite human nature.

>have multiple minds?

Multiple finite minds?The infinite being has infinite mind.

The question is how could we ever ascribe ANY finite property/nature to the infinite one?

bump

>>567735

>Manifestation is a tricky word

No its not, and it does mean in scripture as "taking on" a nature.

>With Jesus we don't say he was simply a manifestation of God

Of course we don't, Jesus didn't become God, he was always God.

However he did become flesh, as in "take on" human nature.

<And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (John 1.14)

>taking on a finite human nature

Yes exactly.

> The question is how could we ever ascribe ANY finite property/nature to the infinite one?

We arent ascribing Jesus' divine nature to his human nature.

Your confusion is that youre combining both natures, leading you to think of a logical impossibility.

its not a combination but a union.

The hypostatic union of Christ is like a marriage of both natures.

>>567720

If God has infinite power, that includes the power to limit himself. Here’s a straightforward analogy: if a weightlifter has a one rep max of 400 lbs, they can also lift 300 or 200 lbs. To use another example of God doing this: God limits his power every day by not showing us his face and letting us be destroyed. God could use only a tiny bit of his power and destroy the world, but he chooses to be unseen and only be manifest on Earth right now by the Holy Spirit. To use math to illustrate this, if God is an infinite set containing everything, then finite things are a subset of it. To use a famous riddle, can God make a stone do big he can’t lift it? God is omnipotent and infinite, so he can make giant unliftable stones, but he can also lift stones so big he can’t lift them. There are no limits to the almighty Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

>>567820

The infinite became flesh. Thus it became finite (while also being infinite).

Huh?

>>567824

This isn't about God doing X. But about God becoming X itself. X being contrary to infinite nature

>>567962

Nothing is contrary to infinite nature, because the infinite nature contains all things

>>567961

Things true of the Son in His humanity are true of the Son as a person even if they are not true of the Son in His divinity. Thus in His humanity the Son, being God, is finite, while in His divinity the Son, being God, is infinite. I think you are assuming that personage and nature are the same which is causing a problem.

>>567961

>The infinite became flesh. Thus it became finite (while also being infinite)

Yes exactly. Let's clear up these terms first.

Again, "became" or "revealed" or "manifested" in scripture means to "take on"

<He who was revealed in the flesh, 1 timothy 3.16

and

<2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us. 1 John 1.2

To restate what you said:

The Divine took on Human nature. Thus The person of Christ is truly man and truly God.

These natures are in union with one another, not combining.

However, for the infinite to take on finite, the immortal to take on mortality, is a mystery.

<6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 

<7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men

If being infinite is better or above being finite, then it seems to me that being finite is not out of bounds. If you have 10 of one thing, then you do have 1 of that thing. Also, Christ became a servant to others even though he is God. It really buzzes the neurons to think about it that way.

>>568091

The argument isn't that a finite thing was subsumed into the infinite, like a drop in the ocean. But that the infinite ocean became a finite single drop, 100% a single drop of water, yet also remained the infinite ocean within that single drop of finite water….

A became not-A and A.

Not-A was raised to A, yet remained also not-A.

>>567965

This.