/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>567688

Weren't we already having this conversation in the libertarian thread? Did we really need a new one?

Anyway, define your terms. What is capitalism? What system do you propose to replace it?

>>567698

>define your terms

lol good one

>>567704

>The Church proclaimed that he is a saint, meaning he's heaven

>anon says he is heretic and in hell

>I'm catholic, but disagree with the Church on x, y, z

> I know better than the Church

> Thinking you know better than the Church is precisely what's heresy is all about

dudes stahp

>>567704

what do you think is wrong with the third picture, exactly? Can't you recognize the Cross of St.Peter? False-flagging should be a bannable offense.

Calitalism is Christian dumbass

>>567688

Go back to >>>/leftypol/ and stop trying to recruit on here. It not our fault your board split up because of your autistic tranny BO.

>>567704

WOKE

>>567704

>Communism is the greatest evil and persecutor of Christians ever conceived.

<Posts pictures of a saint who defeated the communists, single-handedly. Then says he's in Hell.

Really activates the almonds. I'd agree the second picture is offensive to God, but every man makes mistakes

>>567704

Isn't the third pic just a representation of St. Peter being crucified upside down? The pope sits in the throne of St. Peter, though not the actual one.

>>567688

go away /leftypol/

>>567727

there is 1 argument for a welfare state - it's just cheaper and helps people in a multidirectional approach like in the EU where the govt help you find a job, a place to live and fix your problems. Giving money away willy-nilly to poor people is first of all demeaning to them and second it rarely fixes their problems.

>>567704

>It means the opposite you cuck! haha! It actualy means kill the poor and suck off the rich, Deus Vault

fuck off

>>567729

>>567746

>it's a /pol/ pretends to be christian episode part 2137

>>567704

>Communism is the greatest evil and persecutor of Christians ever conceived.

>if you aren't a capitacuck bootlicker you are a commie

I stated in the OP - I prefer EU style social democracy that let's people enjoy their life and have safety nets

>>567832

Why do you hate white people?

>>567704

We really need a sedememer flag to separate the wheat from the chaff.

>>567840

why do you hate yourself, /pol/tard?

>>567845

>>567832

watch your language

>>567847

I have no other way to respond when getting strawmaned by brainlets, but you are right I will watch my language

Capitalism: wherein the economic unit of a nation is the individual.

Socialism: wherein the economic unit of a nation is the collective.

That's the definition of these. Socialism is antithetical to Christianity if any individual that make up the collective is forced to give of his wealth, which is bound to happen in a socialist country given the volume of people. Capitalism does not, by definition, break this rule because ownership over wealth and property belongs to the individual.

2 Colossians 9:7:

>Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

>>567866

Social democracy european style =/= marxism, stop strawmaning please

>>567885

Where did I mention social democracy or Marxism? I am speaking in relation to the definitions of the words Capitalism and its opposite Socialism.

>>567888

There is a lot of systems in between those to choose from

Yes, capitalism exploits people and is sinful. No one is calling for Marxist communism, just a better alternative and to stop saying it's the most just and perfect economic system (mostly from American protties)

>>567891

Like? And they're defined as?

Capitalism merely describes a mode of production and ownership in a swociety. Fundamentally any society where people are allowed to own property and invest in whatever means they see fit to increase that property is capitalist.

Did Jesus not said that the servant that multiplied his master's talents was praised the most and the one who hid the money was to be punished? Even though it is a spiritual allegory, it also serves to show that Christians should not be totally averse to money and that good life is a productive one, for wealth created to improve life can be a good, as opposed to wealth accumulation for it's own sake.

It boils down to money as a resource and a social element - if you hoard money, you deny other people their chance to participate in the economy, but if you trade, you give everyone chance to trade as well, increasing wealth. Money must be a social thing as much as it is an economic force and its use must enhance society as a whole as opposed to being a source of divide and strife between people.

Capitalism encourages participation in the marketplace and inspires productivity, and through good nature of people, it inspires philanthropy and giving. Taxation, socialism, central planning and greed are akin to burying the money and fearing that you might lose it and you get naught in the end, as you squandered the potential that you were gifted.

As men we are not made to live on bread alone, but to share that bread by worthwhile economic participation is what makes money virtuous.

>>567948

>Capitalism encourages participation in the marketplace and inspires productivity

what about billions stashed away in offshore accounts? 1% of the population has as much money as the bottom 50%

>if you hoard money, you deny other people their chance to participate

this is exactly the problem with todays economy

>Taxation, socialism, central planning and greed are akin to burying the money

no, taxing the rich is literaly digging the money from under the ground and giving it to the poor so they can live

How is this ethical to have as much money as a small country anyway? Most people who made those money never did it by honest work, it's mostly stock machinations or selling new-era dildos and/or apps for those dildos. People who work their whole life fairly most of the time never achieve anything.

>>567954

You ignored my first paragraph. Capitalism not a doctrine, it is a description. I do not deny that greed is a sin and it is counter-productive.

>no, taxing the rich is literaly digging the money from under the ground and giving it to the poor so they can live

The poor? In what sense? did they not live prior to the existence of rich people? and if there are no rich people, is everyone magically better off? Wealth accumulation is a result of successful investments and good management - what you do with that wealth is another matter entirely. To assign inherent moral value to people who achieve money and are more wealthy than others demonizes effort and industriousness by lumping it in with those who achieved wealth through sinful means.

Blind, unlimited charity is what causes dependence and results in poverty. Learned helplessness is a thing and it is a growing phenomenon in those countries that practice excessive welfare (sponsored by heavily taxing the middle class and not the rich), especially in the West.

>>567957

>Learned helplessness is a thing and it is a growing phenomenon

This an american meme procreated by the "pull yourselves by the bootstraps" brainwashed temporaily embarassed millionaires. In the EU the most prosperous countries offer people safety nets and solidarity, while the US prides itself in its freedom and equality while hundreds off people go bankrupt from medical expenses.

>>567960

>This an american meme

I've seen it in Britain, I've seen it in Germany, I've seen it in Poland. Social net ought to be just that, not a means to live without working. Benefit budgets and welfare state as they exist now are being continuously abused and defrauded, all the while all western countries are running budget deficits to keep up their current level of spending.

What happens in effect is that future prosperity of your children is burned for sake of providing bread and circuses today. You cannot build prosperity by wealth redistribution when the number of poor will always overwhelm the resources of the rich.

>>567968

Germany has record budget surplus, while in poland there is pretty much no safety nets.

Yes you can build pfosperity and germany is the best example also strong labour unions keep the workers strong against the management creating a fair economy.

>>567970

Except where it is being crashed by migrants and safety nets were inherently designed to prevent shameful poverty, not enable baseline living. You keep confusing "emergency net" with "necessity of life," and the growing dissolution is causing continuously growing problems. Britain has large sections of native population that hasn't worked in 3 generations, half of Americans are receiving some form of state support and Germany rots culturally from within and from without as it is invaded.

German economy is built on explitation of trade imbalances within EU, impoverishing places like Poland and Greece, it has little to do with "unions", but rather with trade surplus that is ran with use of shady banking to finance bubbles in lesser European economies. So it was in Greece in 2008 and so it is now, except the good times have ended with Muhammad.

everyone knows Georgism is the best system

DPRK is the sole Christian nation in the world.

NazCathBol is the truth of God

>>567978

>crashed by migrants

what does that even mean? 12 bn Euro of surplus, how are they crushed?

>safety nets were inherently designed to prevent shameful poverty, not enable baseline living

automatization is coming, it will kill millions of jobs, no matter how you slice it, so safety nets will have to provide basic living. UBI is a thing, you know?

>Britain has large sections of native population that hasn't worked in 3 generations

this sounds implausible, post source or stop posting such outright lies

>Germany rots culturally from within

they extend hospitality to people in need since their economy is strong enough to sustain them

>as it is invaded

Pope said that the refugees are "warriors of hope", he even washed their feet for the "Washing of the Feet" before Easter. Those people deserve help, because when you think of them most are victims of European or American imperialism creeping into Africa and Asia once again.

>Poland

they refuse to run their economy properly, so it's their fault

>Greece

they were bankrupt the moment they went for massive defense shopping spree from the French who knew that could break them

>except the good times have ended with Muhammad

why are you so hateful?

>>568008

>social democracy is a code word for socialism

come to Europe, Cletus and see how "socialist" we are

>you're a cuck

reported - BYE!

>>568016

>anime girl

>omg you rely on the govt? lol!

another american temporarily embarassed millionaire who tries to justify that his grave position is somehow good

>>568293

Is it so hard to imagine that supporters of capitalism are content with the system they're in? Money doesn't make you happier once you've got enough to support yourself without anxiety.

>For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

>Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you

It seems to me that modern leftism cannot possibly be reconciled with Christianity because Christianity maintains a clear distinction between the deserving and the undeserving poor. This doesn't mean you shouldn't have a welfare state whatsoever, but that its power must be quite limited.

>>568296

Yes I've red on /pol/ they aren't content, they want all govt and regulations gone, so people can die in the streets as darwinism intended

>>568297

>but that its power must be quite limited

but why?

>>568299

Simply put, because a powerful welfare state promotes sloth rather than personal industry, and encourages people to be reliant upon the state rather than God.

>>568302

the GDP and all trade and production stats say a different tale about Germany, stop repeating the libertarian lie of "muh self reliance and the ebil state"

>>568292

>Germany rots culturally from within

they extend hospitality to people in need since their economy is strong enough to sustain them

European countries can't even sustain our current homeless persons and poors, how can we accept millions of migrants ? We should help them with charity and money, but they can't come here because we already have to deal with so much poverty. If our home isn't in order, how can we invite strangers and treat them well ?

Also since migrants started coming here burglaries number have skyrocketed. For examples, my grandparents have been robbed 4 times in 5 years, and when asking elders about the matter, they all say that 30 years ago it wasn't like that at all. Sorry I failed to write something comprehensible, my English isn't very good

>>568305

if I failed*

>>568305

>Also since migrants started coming here burglaries number have skyrocketed

ten years ago racists were crying about big bad Polacks coming in and stealing their cars, now it's Africans and Syrians….

>we already have to deal with so much poverty

there are countries that are less fortunate than Germany, but it's a systemic problem and reliance on free-market memes and disproven mechanisms

>>568309

It is not "racist speculation", but obversation of factual occurrences. And many bulgaries are still done by easterners.

Even if my village there was problems with migrants taking middle schoolers buses illegally and annoying girls, we should help them. But by helping them fixing their countries, they're not suited for Western society and due to their great numbers we can't take appropriate mesures to assist them integrating. Just be realistic

>>568309

You must be blind to not accept objective reality of a cultural invasion occurring in Europe. There are limits to charity, if you give up last shreds of your liberty to take in another person who sees you as a fool for enabling his intended rape of both your people and your country, you are sinning against God and your fellow man, since you fail to distinguish what is evil and you fail to act against it.

The greatest charity would be to make the conditions overseas better so the people in need stay there, instead of crashing your own society for their sake. If you refuse to accept the facts, there can be no discussion, since in your opinion Europe is a land of unlimited charity and unlimited resources, while in reality it is a physical place with its own limits and its own problems.

>>568292

>UBI

It is a death knell of a functioning society - if a ever-smaller pool of people is supposed to support an ever growing mass of foreign uneployed, all at the exepnse of neighbouring countries who finance your surplus via trade, you are asking for political backlash both at home and abroad.

>sounds implausible

look up "benefits culture" in the UK and you will see with your own eyes.

>most are victims of European or American imperialism

That does not absolve them from following the same rules as everyone else about legal entry, request for stay and refugee status and most importantly, not acting like a barbarian horde that crosses the border and rapes and steals. There is nothing that marks them out as victims with such attitude. Real refugees would seek to stay in the country of first entry that is supposed and able to provide them with help, like Turkey, or Egypt, but they prefer to target Germany specifically, just to get free stuff. this is not help, this is enabling parasitism.

>Pope said

and God gave each man a brain to use. I refuse to bow down before those that treat my culture and my homeland like a trash pile to defile.

>they refuse to run their economy properly, so its their fault

Same can be said about all of africa and half of Asia. either we treat all cases equally or we drop the pretense that illegal migrants are victims deserving of help. dismissing the argument like that only shows your conceit and false thought.

>why are you so hateful

why are you so deceived? Mercy is a virtue, but solely on the deserving. If you can't tell evil and continue to enable it, you are sinning as well.

>>568292

>Victims of american or european colonialism

>Colonialism didn't leave backward third world countries with more advanced technology, access to advanced medical care, overall higher standard of living than when it arrived, only for most of the benefits and infrastructure to be pissed away during "decolonization"

>He fell for the "everywhere that there is few white people is shit because of white people" meme

also

>Why are you so hateful?

Why do you hate white people and want them to be dispossessed of their homelands? Why do you expend so much energy to defend a usurious jewish banking bubble dependant economic system that tramples the people of the world? Why do you spew hateful lies in order to mislead and harm credulous christians? Most importantly, how did someone with such unexamined, basic-bitch political views wander onto 8chan (and not end up on leftypol)?

If you're rich, look to become less so. Give generously, to the point of sacrifice.

>>567926

Austrofascism lasted what, 5 minutes?

>>568657

>Why do you expend so much energy to defend a usurious jewish banking bubble

Says the guy defending capitalism, wew