/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>564893

New covenant, so only Jews still hold to that. Why are you being so antisemitic?

>>564893

Christianity accepts Ex-gays (who repented of their sin) in their congregation.

>and Having Sex Slaves

>What is 1 Corinthians and Philemon.

>>564895

That's your best excuse? How could a loving God command these things in the first place?

>>564898

One of your pastors thinks gays should be killed by the state. He admits he hates gays,

>>564893

so does wikipedia

>>564898

>No, Christians are not permitted to genocide gays or have sex slaves.

The moral law does not change. Sure the dietary/ceremonial laws have passed away.

But.

If homosexuality is still immoral (which it is) why wouldn't the just consequences follow?

I don't think it would be immoral for a just tribunal to ask gays to repent and change their ways, and if they continuously decline perhaps death would be a better option.

>>564899

>I don't know what justice is

God commanded those who were guilty to be punished

<Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised (Job 1:21)

>>564903

>posts heretic meme pastor as a representation of true Christianity

>>564914

Because killing people is fucked up. It's called common sense.

>>564893

The old covenant has been revoked; the new testament says we can't have any of those things. Also note that Jews still following the old testament are basically an affront to God and will never have our interests in mind, and as such should be removed from our countries forever.

>>564903

Hi Jesuits.

>>564903

>your pastor

>Catholic flag

Anderson is as much "our pastor" as an Ahmadi preacher is to a Sunni. He naturally doesn’t belong to our faith, and for someone who deludes himself about not being a Prot he can’t go 2 minutes in any "sermon" without attacking the Church. He’s a complete heretic who habitually contradicts scripture often in very fundamental ways (gays can’t repent is one, fuck repentance is another) and who is too prideful to see his deficient grasp on theology is why nobody takes him seriously outside of this board or the podunk strip mall his church is in.

>>564923

>>564898

>>564895

So why isn't the Old Testament even included in the Bible?

>>564918

>Because killing people is fucked up. It's called common sense.

So "muh feels" then.

>>564933

I disagree with the posters totally dismissing the Old Testament. It is "given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness". We no longer have to do the ceremonial law stuff but the things the Bible prohibited for moral reasons didn't stop being immoral with the New Covenant. Besides that, the Bible is useful for historical reasons, and because the New Testament constantly refers to and builds upon/unveils things from the Old Testament.

>>564933

OT basically gives us context, and as the poster above mentioned, the NT builds upon the OT.

>>564938

Yeah, I really agree with the gist of your post. I don't think any of us are completely dismissing the OT, but rather saying that we have to look at its books and laws contained within those books with a certain context and how those OT laws were addressed in the NT.

We get atheists and other forms of fedoras here all the time where they smugly claim that we eat shellfish, so thus we are hypocrites and should accept homosexuality as normal. We know these are silly arguments, as the eating of shellfish was banned in the OT, but those specific dietary laws were addressed in the NT.

Similarly we have other laws from the OT reiterated in the NT, such as the Ten Commandments, traditional marriage (Christ refers back to Genesis), etc.

I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to just pick and choose which laws we want to follow from the OT, such as applying Leviticus laws to sodomites. I don't like them as much as anyone else, but we really shouldn't do that.

>>564921

>The punishment for sinners in the hands of God, not ours. Humans have no right to take the lives of other humans. God gives us the right to life and He is the one that takes our lives.

This is retarded. And anti-Christian. And undermines the function of kings, guards, soldiers, police and the legal system as a whole.

Genesis 9:6 "Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind."

Byzantine Emperor, [and Saint], Justinian in 529 issued a legal edict where homosexuals were to be punished severely lest they repent. His advisor, another saint I can't recall his name, recommended they be burned alive .

Capital punishment is appropriate for murderers, rapists, and homosexuals.

>>564893

>I thought the Bible was different from the Qur'an and suppose to be about love.

It is, but not in the sense that American conservatives and weak Western Christians keep positing. God is love, but He is also a just God and wrathful towards all sin, with degrees more for abominable sins and less for others. The Bible also tell the truth, while the Qu'ran does not.

>The Bible Promotes Genocide

You need to understand something about the Canaanites. Ethnically, they are not different from the ancient Israelites, but only by tribal identity. This isn't Genocide de facto.

Second, why are you implying the Canaanites and Amalekites were innocent people? They were not, in fact, they were worse the Egyptians and Babylonians in that period. Such a people were like the ancient version of ISIS, perhaps worse.

Third, do you not understand that by not obey God with this commandment, the Israelites became desperately wicked, certainly worse than whatever evil you think God is performing here?

>Killing Gays

You're right, there is almost no difference, well there shouldn't be, between Islam and Christianity regarding this if Christians today actually obeyed God's law. If done after due process, with two or three witnesses, which would include forensics, then what's the problem? Why are you accusing God of commanding evil? The state must punish certain sins and sodomy is one of them. If that's evil, by what standard are you judging God's justice on?

There are crucial differences, however, between the two. First, Christianity does demand more merciful ways of execution after the need for communal execution is considered. Islam makes no such demand. Second, there are verses in the Qu'ran that support some sodomy in certain circumstances like the Jihadist paradise, while Bible consistently anathematizes that behavior. Finally, the Qu'ran doesn't emphasize a strict process to seek justice to prevent abuses of the law, the Bible does.

>Having Sex Slaves

Point to me where God explicitly says "take sex slaves". All I see are laws demanding Israelite men to respect conquered women they take as wives. In fact, one explicitly says to not treat the woman as a slave (Deut. 21:14). Becoming a wife of an faithful Israelite was better than either dying by the sword or remaining a pagan and going to hell.

>>564895

>>564898

"For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

And don't be mistaken by the "until all is accomplished" language, which is merely a hyperbole. God doesn't change and His standard for humans will never change either, see Isaiah 40:8.

>B-b-but muh old v new covenant

Wrong, what changed between the old and new covenants was not the standards by which we live, but bringing forth Christ forefront and center as the perfect means to make all men spiritually clean and not just the Israelite. It also establishes Christ as the perfect high priest of all Christians, as He alone, as God and man, can fulfill such an office perfectly.

>B-b-but muh Jews only

"There shall be lone law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you.” (Exodus 12:49) By one standard alone God will judge all nations, see Amos 1-2.

Btw, if we are not to follow OT law, by what standard should the modern states use? Secular law? Look everywhere and see the spiritual wasteland caused by secular thinking. That standard can go to hell.

>>564921

>Humans have no right to take the lives of other humans

False and heretical. The state does have the right to put criminals to death. This could include sodomites.

>>564971

>kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

The thing I just don't understand is why a loving God would command that. I mean killing innocent people and even worse the children as well ….. really? Explain this please.

>>564993

I wonder about it too. I think brutal people in brutal times when life was short and death was everywhere. The Israelites wiping out people was in the plan. I think maybe they weren't God's favorites they were God's tool who later become the same pharisees that would kill Christ and fulfill the prophecy. I wonder sometimes what God's response would have been if the Israelites had plead for him to show mercy to their enemies. They didn't even try. Maybe the world wasn't ready for that yet.

>>564993

What part of "God is just and wrathful too" do you not understand? I forgot to add the other serious characteristic of God: His perfect holiness. He cannot tolerate a quark of sin if you could measure sin that way. You may as well through out the concept of hell since that is far worse than merely dying by sword. No one is good to deserve life, no not one. No one is truly innocent before the Lord and children are not born free of sin. See Romans 3:9-20 and Psalm 51:3-5.

But God has mercy on whom He'll have mercy. Have you ever stopped and considered that maybe dying by the sword allowed the children to escape, who otherwise they'd be sent to if they grew up normally in that corrupt Near Eastern society? Have you stopped and considered that the Amalekites were first doing to the Israelites and others what the Israelites soon did to them, and more without good reason too? Have you stopped and researched what the Babylonians and Assyrians did to captured cities during this time period, how much more merciful the Israelites were merely using the sword? Have you stopped and considered that this command of complete and utter destruction only applied to a small group in that region? The Israelites were not told to utterly destroy every city in their path, only the Canaanites and Amalekites.

Again, who are you to judge God and by what standard are you are you judging Him with?

>>564996

> I think maybe they weren't God's favorites they were God's tool who later become the same pharisees that would kill

Joshua and later David, Hezekiah, and the Simeonites (1 Chronicles 4:42–43) were righteous before God (imputed righteousness, not their own). How can you say that they're made of the same substance as Pharisees? When Saul failed to destroy to Amalekites, God promised to depose him of the Messianic promise, the same God who would come down to Earth as man. What's worse is that the Amalekites kept on their own slaughter and banditry after Saul' failure to perform his stately duties as God's wrath (1 Samuel 30, Romans 13).

> I wonder sometimes what God's response would have been if the Israelites had plead for him to show mercy to their enemies. They didn't even try.

"Mercy will be shown to those who give merciful." (Psalm 18:25-26, James 2:13) What part of "they were like an ancient ISIS" do you not understand?

>>564982

>could

*should

Sodomites are not at all merciful to God and His image within the male-female relationship with their practices, nor is there an Earthly victim who can plead for mercy. They prey on children. They willingly and joyfully spread disease. They persecute God's people. They cannot be shown any mercy by the state.

>Bible Promotes Genocide and Killing Gays and Having Sex Slaves

That's pretty metal.