/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Friendo, these responses are just memes

I honestly don't know how to help, people who believe these things are usually just retarded

It is the same kind of thing they do with the anti-gay verse. Make up some context that allows you to ignore the clear statements in the book. With the gay thing they say Paul was only talking about homosexual ritual prostitution in pagan temples or something. It's ridiculous. Just notice that everything they say is speculation. They don't let scripture speak for itself. They make up stories which give them loopholes.

>>564712

>Paul _could_ be pointing out that he is currently not allowing women to teach in Ephesus

>By “remain quiet,” Paul _might_ not be saying that they need to be silent forever.

>First, Paul _might_ be commenting on the prophecy of Genesis 3:15

>Second, Paul _might_ be saying that women will be saved from the Curse.

>Third, Paul _might_ still be fighting Gnostic thought in this passage.

That link is pretty much saying that he knows better than how native Koine Greek speakers interpreted 1 Tim. 2:12 back in the early days because of assumptions.

He forgot that Paul could be trolling, or that this might be a joke from Paul.

>>564783

>>564719

>>564734

I know its retarded but I love these guys and I want to show them how they are wrong.

How do I refute the Gnostic stuff? I have 1 Corinthians 14:34 to refute the claim that it was just the church in Ephesians.

>>564727

Thank you for this video. It is very helpful.

>>564838

>How do I refute the Gnostic stuff?

Fortunately, you don't need to! Saint Irenaeus already wrote Adversus Haereses.

By sharing in the ways of the Apostles, / you became a successor to their throne. / Through the practice of virtue, you found the way to divine contemplation, O inspired one of God; / by teaching the word of truth without error, you defended the Faith, even to the shedding of your blood. / Hieromartyr Irenaeus, entreat Christ God to save our souls.

>>564783

>Paul could be trolling, or that this might be a joke from Paul

Those are "better" explanations for this nonsense than what was written.

>>564838

Ask your friends what they think about Gnosticism.

>>564846

>>565042

I don't mean Gnosticism itself but the argument that Timothy 1 2:12 is just forbidding women in that church because of Gnosticism.

>>565198

Consider how much gnosticism has influenced New Age, which has become the en vogue spirituality of the modern world. Consider how many of these 'new age spiritualists' have simultaneously called for reforms within the Church, and that almost everyone that was a part of the theological culture from the 60s onward has at the very least read about this new cult-like following. Ironically, the very argument that they use to twist Paul's words dramatically proclaims that these new modern gnostics are attempting to infiltrate the Church and subvert it's practices.

>>565198

Test your friends to see if they actually sympathize with Gnosticism.

>>565251

>>565324

I'm pretty sure they don't. We are in a church together and although there is a lot wrong with the church, Gnosticism isn't one.

But how would I test someone for gnostic ideas? All I know it that the Archons want to keep us from being God or something.

>>565198

As far as I know the time of Paul writing these letters was too early for gnosticism getting any decent form in terms of adherence.

Besides that the main Gnostic centres were Egypt (mainly Alexandria) and the rest of North-Africa.

I'd say this and the fact that that whole article is based on more assumptions than the Church celebrates in a decade.

>>565342

Ask them if they think the Holy Spirit is the feminine side of God. Ask them if they think that the original sin gave humanity the faculty of reason. Ask them if they think the Old Testament God and the New Testament God seem like different gods. Not all at once. Space out the questions. These are Gnostic ideas that have wide currency in contemporary culture. I doubt that any are actual avowed Gnostics because it's a dead religion that required the transmission of secret oral teachings from master to student, and they all got wiped out over a thousand years ago. Anyone who claims to be an actual Gnostic today is a LARPer. But it remains a heretical tendency.

>>565359

>Ask them if they think the Holy Spirit is the feminine side of God.

I actually fell for this meme, until I got schooled by a priest on why it's wrong. The Apocrypha has a lot of useful information but it's a minefield of heresy too. It's better to read it with guidance than to solo it.

>>565482

>The Apocrypha has a lot of useful information but it's a minefield of heresy too

is this what pastor jim tells you?

>>565494

I'm sorry. I was stupid.