/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Both sound great. I wish I could shoot lightning.

Jesus is omniscient and always has been including when He was a fetus and a baby. He never suddenly realized that He's God. He always knew.

>>563564

>Not 100% Man with some God sprinkled on him so he didn't know who he was at some point.

100% man means he didn't know at some point, because human consciousness becomes self-aware, grows and learns what it is overtime.

>>563559

>Jesus is omniscient

somethings are kept hidden from him, like the 'time/day' of the judgment.

> he knew all, including when He was a fetus and a baby.

this would totally deny his human nature/mind.

>>563575

He knew his mission when he was found in the temple as a kid.

>>563592

Either he realized his Godhood as a kid or as an adult. Both would still be shocking and wonderous experiences for his human mind to come to terms with.

>>563576

>>563547

I don't think it would have been strange for Him to discover something about His own ontology. Perhaps "discover" is even a bad word for it. Think about it this way: at some point in your infancy, you consciously register the fact that you have hands, eyes, a nose, etc. and you also recognize your own name. There is no moment of epiphany for those things. You do not suddenly think, "Aha! I am 'Adam!' What an astounding revelation this is!" Or, "Goodness! I have two hands which I can use to manipulate objects! How incredible!" You simply slip into a moment of perfect knowledge about these things which were already fully integrated into your character. Maybe you don't have perfect motor control, but you definitely aren't surprised or overwhelmed by your ability to control your own body. You aren't surprised by your hands when you become self-aware because you possessed the use of your hands long before self-awareness came upon you.

Likewise, I'm sure, Christ's human nature just gradually came into a knowledge of His own ontology. Just as you learn your name long before you can express individuality, so Christ likely had an awareness of His 'Name' before His human consciousness materialized. When His human self-awareness did kick in, He probably had an immediate knowledge of who He was, and it wasn't a revelation to Him. Furthermore, He probably had a natural acceptance of His divine abilities as Creator of the Universe in the same way that any infant has a natural acceptance of their abilities to move, see, smell, grab, and whatever else is simply an attribute of their being.

>>563616

>babies have consciousness

>>563624

That begs the question of when consciousness begins; at worst infant consciousness is just disorganized and fluid since your brain is still developing.

>>563628

>at worst

more like what a normal consciousness on infants

>>563547

>How could the human mind cope with that knowledge and not fall into total pride and shock and paralyzing amazement??

If we assume the first theory to be true, we must remember that Christ was free of any kind of sin, including pride.

On the contrary, It is written (Psalm 64:5): "Blessed is he whom Thou hast chosen, end taken to Thee"; which words, according to the gloss, refer to Christ's human nature, which "was taken by the Word of God unto the unity of Person." But human nature was taken by the Word of God in the first instant of His conception. Therefore, in the first instant of His conception, Christ, as man, was in the state of beatitude; which is to be a comprehensor.

I answer that, As appears from what was said above (Article 3), it was unbecoming that in His conception Christ should receive merely habitual grace without the act. Now, He received grace "not by measure" (John 3:34), as stated above (III:7:11). But the grace of the "wayfarer," being short of that of the "comprehensor," is in less measure than that of the comprehensor. Wherefore it is manifest that in the first instant of His conception Christ received not only as much grace as comprehensors have, but also greater than that which they all have. And because that grace was not without its act, it follows that He was a comprehensor in act, seeing God in His Essence more clearly than other creatures.

Personal Epiphany is cryptoarian heresy.

>>563624

Consciousness. Maybe not sapience or higher-level consciousness, but definitely consciousness.

>>563751

I don't even consider 12 years old to be sapient.

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

And the Child grew and became strong. He was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon Him.

>>563754

I'm 21 and sometimes I don't even feel sentient tfw not even joking :'(

-t. denthead

Does anyone know what the Church Fathers say about this aspect of the incarnation? Was he actually aware that he was God the entire time like >>563559 says or did he learn that later on?

>>563820

>Was he actually aware that he was God the entire time like >>563559 says or did he learn that later on?

Doubt it, he was never fully omniscient even as an adult, somethings only the Father knew and kept hidden from him.

There was that short, snappy hypothesis that summarised how Jesus's conciousness as a man related to his Godhood set out in a pic by WLC some one posted somewhere the otherday, would post it if I had saved it, probs related to topic, someone help a brutha out