>>552151
>We understand the original sin to be the sin of Adam that put a curse upon him, turning the world against us and introducing death. The grace that Adam lost is restored to us in Christ, and the curse is lifted.
And you do know that this is Catholic definition of original sin?
>But we do not tolerate Augustine's idea of original sin, which is that the guilt of Adam's sin was "genetically" transmitted to his descendants, thus affecting all of humanity. The original sin did not destroy our nature, it only sullied it, and furthermore, it was not a huge dramatic mistake that the adult Adam made, dooming him (and us) to death so that only God Himself can save us, but it was rather a stupid mistake made by the childish Adam, that cursed him but that God promised to deliver him (and us) from.
Augustine teached fallowing:
>Sin of Adam was his personal sin
>Fall of Adam caused whole of human race to be in fallen state
>Because no one is of himself in state of Grace, all need savior who gives grace
The "Genetic" view on spiritual matter is Tertullian one, after his departure from faith iirc
Canons of Council of Orange summarises it in this way:
Canon 1. If anyone denies that it is the whole man, that is, both body and soul, that was "changed for the worse" through the offense of Adam's sin, but believes that the freedom of the soul remains unimpaired and that only the body is subject to corruption, he is deceived by the error of Pelagius and contradicts the scripture which says, "The soul that sins shall die" (Ezek. 18:20); and, "Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey?" (Rom. 6:126); and, "For whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved" (2 Pet. 2:19).
Canon 2. If anyone asserts that Adam's sin affected him alone and not his descendants also, or at least if he declares that it is only the death of the body which is the punishment for sin, and not also that sin, which is the death of the soul, passed through one man to the whole human race, he does injustice to God and contradicts the Apostle, who says, "Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned" (Rom. 5:12).
>According to the Augistinian teaching, newborns who die go to Hell, because of the guilt of Adam. According to the greater Orthodox teaching, we simply cannot know the fate of newborns, not because they have guilt from Adam (they are born without guilt) but because they did not have the occasion to grow in holiness.
You do know that Limbo of Children is a thing in Augustinian theology, right? You know, basically heaven-without-seeing-God for no one without grace can see God.
His so-called denial of it is only denial of Pelagian version of it. He believed in "mild punishment" i.e. not seeing God.
>Similarly, the Mother of God must necessarily be born without original sin in Catholic theology if she was always sinless, but not in Orthodoxy - she could be born with the stain of original sin, including being attracted to sin, but she could also have fought against this attraction to sin, with the grace of God. The Fathers don't agree exactly on when she became and remained without sin either - some say it's at her conception, some say it's at her birth, some say it's when the Archangel Gabriel visited her. God chose a stainless and favored vessel, but in Orthodoxy she could be stainless and favored without being free of original sin - what original sin means is not that we have fallen from grace, as much as that our growth toward deification is blocked and rather we grow toward death.
And that's the shame, for the whole immaculate conception biz got so much grounding in west because we looked at our Eastern Brothers, who always believed it, and had fest for it in Syria.
I don't even mention that catholic theology outgrowth Augustine. We are more into St. Anselm really.