/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Nope you are correct. They do err ignoring 2 peter 3:16 and going on about endless geneaologies. Professing to be wise they were made to be fools.

Torah was first translated. Then prophets. And writings. Original 70 was probably dead by time but it was finished in their name and spirit, just as Josue finished books of Moses.

But as you read Justin you will see that LXX was all of OT for he says jews removed some book from canon because Christians used them (i mean, how could they not remove Wisdom of Salomon? It's second chapter is basiclly passion account)

>Did I overlook somewhere?

No, you are correct. The rest of the OT like Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, etc. was likely translated into Greek around the time of Origen.

>>549993

So, what are you going to do with this new knowledge?

>>549996

>Torah was first translated. Then prophets. And writings

Do you have any references on that? All I found was Philo and Josephus agreeing that the Pentateuch was the only thing translated by the 70 elders.

>But as you read Justin you will see that LXX was all of OT for he says jews removed some book from canon because Christians used them

Maybe Justin made the same mistake thinking the Septuagint was the 51 books of the old testament, thus blamed the Jews for it. And if the jews did removed the books of the OT, wouldn't they remove parts of Isaiah since that was the most quoted book in the new testament?

>>550010

But didn't the apostles quote from the Septuagint?

>>550011

>But didn't the apostles quote from the Septuagint?

If it was written after the NT was, all Origen would have to do is take their paraphrase straight from the NT (which is already in Greek) and insert it into his translation of the OT.

>>550012

Do you think we can test that theory with new testament manuscripts?

>>550015

Yeah the falsification of that via manuscripts would be to find a full septuagint that predates Origen. So far, they've found the first five books.

Now I don't place my final trust in manuscripts, but I would at least agree there was a basis for that claim if they could find that. But for us, the mere fact that it's a translation already breaks the word of God, which is that his word will never change and that it will be available to all generations. See Isaiah 59:21 and Psalm 12:6-7 for instance. I mean there is no original language source for the Septuagint anymore, so that already disqualifies it. But in any case for all we know right now Origen was the source of the rest of the translation, so you can't even assume it existed before then.

>>550011

>Do you have any references on that? All I found was Philo and Josephus agreeing that the Pentateuch was the only thing translated by the 70 elders.

Philo comentaing on Greek version of Prophets and writings is the one. Justin telling Jews that they removed some books from Canon is next. Clement of Alexandria speaking about whole of Greek OT. Plus we have empirical evidence.

>Maybe Justin made the same mistake thinking the Septuagint was the 51 books of the old testament, thus blamed the Jews for it. And if the jews did removed the books of the OT, wouldn't they remove parts of Isaiah since that was the most quoted book in the new testament?

Ask him what he means here:

>Maybe Justin made the same mistake thinking the Septuagint was the 51 books of the old testament, thus blamed the Jews for it. And if the jews did removed the books of the OT, wouldn't they remove parts of Isaiah since that was the most quoted book in the new testament? Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, 71 (100-165 ad)

"But I am far from putting reliance in your teachers, who refuse to admit that the interpretation made by the seventy elders who were with Ptolemy [king] of the Egyptians is a correct one; and they attempt to frame another. And I wish you to observe, that they have altogether taken away many Scriptures from the translations effected by those seventy elders who were with Ptolemy, and by which this very man who was crucified is proved to have been set forth expressly as God, and man, and as being crucified, and as dying; but since I am aware that this is denied by all of your nation, I do not address myself to these points, but I proceed to carry on my discussions by means of those passages which are still admitted by you. For you assent to those which I have brought before your attention, except that you contradict the statement, `Behold, the virgin shall conceive, 'and say it ought to be read, `Behold, the young woman shall conceive.' ' And I promised to prove that the prophecy referred, not, as you were taught, to Hezekiah, but to this Christ of mine: and now I shall go to the proof."

“I do not proceed to have a mere verbal controversy with you, as I have not attempted to establish proof about Christ from the passages of Scripture which are not admitted by you which I quoted from the words of Jeremiah the prophet, and Esdras, and David; but from those which are even now admitted by you, which had your teachers comprehended, be well assured they would have deleted them, as they did those about the death of Isaiah, whom you sawed asunder with a wooden saw. And this was a mysterious type of Christ being about to cut your nation in two…" And as they kept silence, I went on: "[The Scripture], speaking by David …”

>>550010

>Let me say that 1000 times, maybe it will make it true

For fuck sake. Do you even understand that Orgien was first to say "Hey, LXX is not that good of translation?"