/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>549477

>>549480

For real though, it's because debating in general is a very western thing. Catholicism and Protestantism are both very western religions, and they debate a lot. Atheism is also prevalent in the west, and they debate a lot. Islam is eastern, and Muslims don't debate other faiths as much (though that has changed recently), Buddhists never debate, Hindus never debate, no eastern faith debates that much. If Orthodoxy had become popular in England or France, they would debate much more

>>549480

>it just, intelligent discourse isn't their main focus and they're blissful for it.

I assume that you havent read church fathers enough. Or debates f Gregory Palamas against Balaam.

Anywho, its not that we dont dogmatize anything, but we dont dogmatize everything, unlike Caths.

>>549497

>church fathers

>Eastern Orthodox

lmao

>>549477

I used to debate here a lot with Catholics but it always gets bogged down in Church Father prooftexting and if you go off-script and actually try debating the theological basis of problems people just say "LMAO but X says Y, checkmate"

Waste of time

>>549477

Orthos are just butthurt about politics and too proud and smug to just let it go. 'Member, the schism was about to be settled fully in the 1450s, but because "orthodoxy" is always about politics, they gave in to the turks and now [see my first sentence]. (ciclejerk complete!)

In reality there aren't "Catholics, orthos and protestants", because orthos are just protestants in denial, "because they in principle are just heterodox" - for obvious reasons. The amount of strawmen they bring up to cover their power-political motives certainly don't help the process.

>>549497

No, you let the laity "decide democratically", and you can't assemble a single ecumenical council, because your leaders can't decide where to sit, to begin with. Don't come at me with that orthowiki quote of "ecumenical" councils, local councils and letters are not ecumenical and you know that very well.

>>549525

Just as you throw the same 3-4 quotes all the time and get blasted about them.

>>549528

are you that butthurt Prot that posted that "Orthodox hate west like muslims, but instead of guns the have anime" on twitter?

>>549530

>using twitter at all

wth man ?

>>549497

It's not that you don't dogmatise anything, it's that you can't dogmatize anything. You guys are literally unable to hold an ecumenical council because that requires the Pope's consent for it to be valid.

>>549523

>>549528

Nah, Catholic mental gymnastics trying to anachronistically impose papal infallibility into history is only funny for a short time.

>>549525

>Just as you throw the same 3-4 quotes all the time and get blasted about them.

It doesn't matter as all bishops are equally icons of Christ. It isn't mediated through the primus inter pares as Christ is the Head of the Body and is present in all sacramental centres in the person of the Bishop (see St Ignatius of Antioch's ecclesiology).

>>549563

>as all bishops are equally icons of Christ

Don't you mean all priests?

>>549477

What do we need to argue about?

Bread and beards?

Filio vs. filioque (though that one has been settled)?

You want another war or something?

It's the anniversary of the Reformation. Catholics are angry and Protestants are trigger-happy.

Catholics and Orthodox fight on here all the time. Lurk more.

>>549494

>>549480

Not really, no. Debate with heretics, and debate among one another, is a major part of the Patristic writings, and I mean Patristic in the Orthodox sense - so it extends even up to now. Gregory Palamas's theology mostly rose out of his own debates with Barlaam and with Patriarch Gregory II of Cyprus…

>>549574

All bishops are successors of the apostles, rooted upon the one rock on which the episcopacy is built, Peter. Presbyters are the "proxy" of the bishop so to speak, because the bishop can obviously not be everywhere at the same time.

>>549555

Just because you call your fiction "alternative facts" it doesn't make them actual facts.

>>549587

this has to be the most unintelligible retort I read all year

>>549593

>knows I'm right

>resorts back to grammar nazism

your brain on """orthodoxy"""

>>549597

>they share the exact same foundations on Salvation and Justification/Sanctification

lolnope

Nothing like "merits" in Orthodoxy and RC anthropology since Blessed Augustine has not included the nous so our sanctification stuff isn't the same.

Beatific vision is Platonism for the masses

>>549595

>Hurr durr the things you consider facts differ from mine ergo I'm right by the sole virtue of holding my position without proving I'm factually right

>I'll just accuse you of subjectivism xD

your brain on scholasticism

>>549555

>muh Hicks-tier frank conspiracy

>muh primus inter pares (never ever seen anywhere in tradition until AFTER the schism)

>calls others anachronistically trying to impose stuff

stop projecting your own flaws on to others ortho-kun

>>549599

>Orthodox does not believe in Grace throught Faith and Works

Ortholarper pls.

>>549597

>they share the exact same foundations on Salvation and Justification/Sanctification

wew lad

"He whose contending will and desire in conversation is to establish his own opinion, even though what he says is true, should recognize that he is sick with the devil's disease.*”

Saint John Klimakos

* This is one of the main reasons why the Orthodox Christians must avoid argumentative conferences and “academic” debates. The same principle applies to blogs, online forums or any conversation, whether in person or online.

>>549574

both of them are actually

>>549950

We see good works as "symptoms" of faith. Thats all.

Also

>5. Regarding the way in which salvation is appropriated by the believers, Lutherans, by teaching that justification and salvation are by grace alone through faith (sola gratia, sola fide), stress the absolute priority of divine grace in salvation. When they speak about saving faith they do not think of the dead faith which even the demons have (cf. James 2:19), but the faith which Abraham showed and which was reckoned to him as righteousness (cf. Gen. 15:6, Rom. 4:3,9). The Orthodox also affirm the absolute priority of divine grace. They underline that it is God's grace which enables our human will to conform to the divine will (cf. Phil 2:13) in the steps of Jesus praying, "not as I will but as You will" (Matthew 26:39), so that we may work out our salvation in fear and trembling (cf. Phil. 2:12). This is what the Orthodox mean by "synergy" (working together) of divine grace and the human will of the believer in the appropriation of the divine life in Christ. The understanding of synergy in salvation is helped by the fact that the human will in the one person of Christ was not abolished when the human nature was united in Him with the divine nature, according to the Christological decisions of the Ecumenical Councils. While Lutherans do not use the concept of synergy, they recognize the personal responsibility of the human being in the acceptance or refusal of divine grace through faith, and in the growth of faith and obedience to God. Lutherans and Orthodox both understand good works as the fruits and manifestations of the believer's faith and not as a means of salvation.

>implying half of the people here aren't LARPers

>>550103

First off the Orthodox church rejected Lutherans wholeheartedly on many other issues and denied to join them. Secondly, Latin Catholic church does not think that Good works are anything but symptoms of a live faith, just like james 2 directly instructs.

CCC 2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

>>549963

/thread

>>550103

*symptoms of grace