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File: 0543afcb3f1a5e6⋯.jpg (40.52 KB, 639x599, 639:599, 1509264980658.jpg)

73580a No.548512

Ive been swayed to begome gadlic, when im trying to begome borthdog, convince me which one is the right 1

Inb4:

"Your church shall never fail is catholic" meme

73580a No.548513

>>548512

Borthodog*


0ad262 No.548515

>Convince me

BEGOME


345c96 No.548516

Are you slav?


aa1986 No.548524

>>548516

A-meri-coont


abb140 No.548544

go to both churches and see where God is calling you

if you’re doing this for memes fuck off. you should not meme about these kinds of things

these are Holy matters of your salvation. Take it seriously


c7d89e No.548548

>>548544

this, also:

BEGOM ORDODOGS


4aed91 No.548557

What's the Orthodox explanation for why they don't see the pope as supreme? I tend to agree with the Orthodox about the pope, but I'm not very knowledgeable about the specifics of it


0ad262 No.548561

>>548557

Well the very short version is "We're supposed to elect elders instead of a centralized command according to the bible" and "we've always done it like this"


a4be16 No.548562

The Church has but one ruler and one governor, the invisible one, Christ, whom the eternal Father hath made head over all the Church, which is his body; the visible one, the Pope, who, as legitimate successor of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, fills the Apostolic chair.

It is the unanimous teaching of the Fathers that this visible head is necessary to establish and preserve unity in the Church. This St. Jerome clearly perceived and as clearly expressed when, in his work against Jovinian, he wrote: One is elected that, by the appointment of a head, all occasion of schism may be removed. In his letter to Pope Damasus the same holy Doctor writes: Away with envy, let the ambition of Roman grandeur cease! I speak to the successor of the fisherman, and to the disciple of the cross. Following no chief but Christ, I am united in communion with your Holiness, that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that on that rock is built the Church. Whoever will eat the lamb outside this house is profane; whoever is not in the ark of Noah shall perish in the .flood.

The same doctrine was long before established by Saints Irenaeus and Cyprian. The latter, speaking of the unity of the Church observes: The Lord said to Peter, I say to thee, Peter! thou art Peter: and upon this rock I will build my Church. He builds His Church on one. And although after His Resurrection He gave equal power to all His Apostles, saying: As the Father hath sent me, I also send you, receive ye the Holy Ghost; yet to make unity more manifest, He decided by His own authority that it should be derived from one alone, etc.

Again, Optatus of Milevi says: You cannot be excused on the score of ignorance, knowing as you do that in the city of Rome the episcopal chair was first conferred on Peter, who occupied it as head of the Apostles; in order that in that one chair the unity of the Church might be preserved by all, and that the other Apostles might not claim each a chair for himself; so that now he who erects another in opposition to this single chair is a schismatic and a prevaricator.

Later on St. Basil wrote: Peter is made the foundation, because he says: Thou art Christ, the Son of the Living God; and hears in reply that he is a rock. But although a rock, he is not such a rock as Christ; for Christ is truly an immovable rock, but Peter, only by virtue of that rock. For Jesus bestows His dignities on others; He is a priest, and He makes priests; a rock, and He makes a rock; what belongs to Himself, He bestows on His servants.

Lastly, St. Ambrose says: Because he alone of all of them professed (Christ) he was placed above all.

Should anyone object that the Church is content with one Head and one Spouse, Jesus Christ, and requires no other, the answer is obvious. For as we deem Christ not only the author of all the Sacraments, but also their invisible minister ュュ He it is who baptises, He it is who absolves, although men are appointed by Him the external ministers of the Sacraments ュュ so has He placed over His Church, which He governs by His invisible Spirit, a man to be His vicar and the minister of His power. A visible Church requires a visible head; therefore the Saviour appointed Peter head and pastor of all the faithful, when He committed to his care the feeding of all His sheep, in such ample terms that He willed the very same power of ruling and governing the entire Church to descend to Peter's successors.

Catechism of Trent.


10d79b No.548563

>>548557

Foremost among equals, following the traditions of the early Church


4aed91 No.548568

>>548561

>>548563

So when did the idea of papal supremacy come around?


ed7c41 No.548621

>>548512

I'm a Catholic and honestly at this point I'm happy when one converts to Orthodoxy unless they started out as a Catholic in full communion with Rome.

I know some LARPers and rad trads will give me flak for this, but I think Orthodoxy is more than "good enough" as it is the second best church.

I'm thoroughly ecumenical as long as the "Christians" aren't totally pozzed or teach and believe things contrary to the Nicene creed, even if young earth creationism, complete determinism, etc and several issues do bother me.


af4a53 No.548649

>>548568

Around the time when the Latins decided they didn't like Constantinople and tried to start their own Roman Empire in Germany.

And then, the Latins codified Papal Infallibility at Vatican I. At that point, they delved into pure heresy. The only being that's truly infallible is God so codifying Papal Infallibility is the same as putting the Pope on the same level as God, which is utterly heretical. I know a lot of people greatly dislike Vatican II for stripping the Church of its tradition and discipline and Protestantizing it, but Vatican I is so much worse in the grand scheme of things.


dcdfd6 No.548652

File: 6ba973ea954ddf0⋯.jpg (487.76 KB, 800x1200, 2:3, 706090.jpg)

Hi, what are some things you would like to find out about Catholicism?

Also, feel free to join us on the /christian/ Discord server. We've actually had a few members of the Eastern Orthodox Church and Eastern Orthodox catechumens who have converted to Roman Catholicism. Maybe you can also ask for their input. :D

https://discord.gg/xwKZS4K

God bless, anon.

>>548563

Don't go down this road, friend. The Bishop of Rome (successor of Saint Pope Peter and the Vicar of Christ) has always held primacy.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm

>>548568

Also please take a peek at the above link. :)


86b170 No.548668

File: 25ece2fb253fc4e⋯.webm (11.95 MB, 711x400, 711:400, 25ece2fb253fc4e6cdd3ac4ed….webm)

>>548652

>discord


abb140 No.548671

>>548668

they don’t care, gotta have muh catholic IDF irc cabal


def7c7 No.548735

>>548652

That discord is a trap, they pressure Orthodox Catechumens with dishonest tactics. i've talked with these Catechumens and none of the arguments which swayed them have any effect on someone who is in the Orthodox faith and isn't being pressured by a server with 50 Catholics telling them to submit to Rome.


4aed91 No.548744

>>548652

I've read Catholic arguments for papal supremacy already but I'm trying to find Orthodox ones. It seems like the only Church that has changed is the Catholic one with their clown masses so the Orthodox must be doing something right.


2fb10c No.548783

https://orthodoxethos.com/post/the-role-of-the-bishop-of-rome-in-the-communion-of-the-churches-in-the-first-millenium

http://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780190245252.001.0001/acprof-9780190245252

The Catholic positions are -technically- correct, but a look at history shows that the common understanding of the Papacy in most of the 1st millenium Church was much closer to the current Orthodox doctrine than to the current Catholic doctrine, and that Latin Catholic views on the Papacy only increasingly grew toward supremacy and then infallibility when faced with positions of weak influence: the Pope is in a situation in which he's practically useless, and so he reminds everybody that he's still technically the one in charge, going increasingly toward a more "ultramontanist" view with each proclamation. The current papal doctrines are a Frankenstein monster made out of everything the Fathers said about Peter, about the Keys of Heaven, about the primacy of Rome, and about the Pope in relation to Peter.

Now, that's just my own conclusion. You don't need to agree… I am not a bishop, or a historian, or a scholar. It's their job to agree on a common view of history. And this mess is so difficult to untangle that I can't get mad at someone for converting to Catholicism over Orthodoxy. Besides, the first step toward reunification would be to cease to see each other as godless heretics, and in certain countries (like France), the Catholics and the Orthodox get along very, very well.

Practice wins over theory, so frankly, the best you can do is attend both Mass and Divine Liturgy until you figure something out.


37188b No.548805

>>548668

Is there any alternative that doesn't cost money. Call me cheap, but what'll suck is that if your information is still sold and Your paying for it to be stolen on top of that…..


dcdfd6 No.548814

File: 574b3403842a622⋯.jpg (138.1 KB, 962x962, 1:1, 1411840715116_wps_17_A_pri….jpg)

>>548744

> It seems like the only Church that has changed is the Catholic one with their clown masses

Now that's just a lie.

>Orthodox must be doing something right.

Don't say we didn't warn you.

>>548735

Apokalypsis is that you? If so, then your entire argument for Orthodoxy rests on a personal experience you had rather than any theological foundation, as pointed out by everyone.


5c4e00 No.549025


ee045f No.549557

>>548621

I'm happy too because orthos are still catholics and part of the one catholic apostolic church thus can achieve salvation through the sacraments. However when they choose eastern Christianity out of protest of Rome and without the spirit of unit I believe they commit the sin of schism which condemns.


ee045f No.549560

>>548649

>doesn't realise that the church is God and thus is infallible

>seat of peter is rock and font of divine outpouring of holy spirit

Why do you guys accept ecumenical council as dogma if you don't think God makes proclamations through the church? Do you accept them just because they make theological sense? That way lies heresy my friend


a03fb8 No.549603

File: 61e74e936b65768⋯.png (39.92 KB, 467x400, 467:400, 61e74e936b657680aaea489eb9….png)

Stop typing like a tard.


945138 No.549612

s


6e782f No.551146

>>549560

>the Church is God

enough shitposting Baptard


656c1f No.552784

>>548512

Roman Catholics believe the Popes inherited the right to define dogma and forgive sin from Peter. Do you believe that? If the answer is 'no', become Orthodox.


0425f7 No.552795

>>552784

>Roman Catholics believe the Popes inherited the right to define dogma and forgive sin from Peter.

That's not how a pope works.


5dede4 No.552796

File: ed09e7dcf24b112⋯.jpg (12.04 KB, 176x255, 176:255, 8b1702bd0347dd3e3a80dece09….jpg)

>>552784

>lying this much just to get someone to join you

You realize that (eventually) he'll find out all the Orthos in this thread are throwing sprinkles of lies into their posts? What dishonest people in here, honestly.


656c1f No.552826

>>552795

>>552796

>not even challenging my claim

It's pretty obvious who's the liar here.


0425f7 No.552842

>>552826

There's nothing to challenge here.

You say a pope works like x, and I say it doesn't work that way which one can see for themselves by just looking it up.


57a2f3 No.552846

>>552826

Because it is retarded. But for you:

>Roman Catholics believe the Popes inherited the right to define dogma and forgive sin from Peter.

Roman Catholics (and Orthodox, and Orientals and Easterners) believe the both Popes (from Rome and Alexandria), patriarchs, bishops and each presbyter "inherited" (i.e. they were given by) the power to forgive sin from Peter, and Andrew and John, and James, and Paul - from apostles.

Roman Catholics belive that Peter succesor, Pope, have authority to define Dogma as Peter had. But the same power whole collage of bishops have if they are united with Pope.

But this exordinar power particuar to Pope was expressed rarely. Last time when Assumption of Mary was declared a dogma.

For more, see here http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p4.htm


89c810 No.553406

>>548814

Tutor is that you? if so then your entire strategy is to pretend to be nice to people as a form of false ecumenicism to push for conversion. taking a lesson from the Jesuits i see the ends sanctify the means am i right lads?


9bc85c No.553681

>>553406

you can tell by the pride, the author of the post is used to having people suck his dick, most likely in a irc or chat program of some sort


7ebeae No.553684

>>552784

>bumping a literal (2) Jesuit thread

Learn their tricks pls.


5dede4 No.553688

File: 2fb90a29bafa5ae⋯.jpg (128.1 KB, 434x434, 1:1, 1509799755561.jpg)

>>553406

Why did you turn your flag off for this post, my Persian friend? :^)

No, I'm not tutor. You might know me as Saddam Hussbolek.


65c721 No.553738

>borthbog

rekt by satanic communism and literally owned by Stalin at multiple points in history. last 100 years disastrous for Orthodox with only a recent resurgence because the State has decided to embrace it. Communion still valid because the RCC allows it, what else needs to be said?

>cathdig

2000 years of apostolic succession, even the worst times of the Church has not led to hell prevailing over it. Even until the end of days, it alone will have the right of valid communion.

be

gome

CAT DIGS


5469d0 No.554705

File: 1c6519b46ffb47f⋯.jpg (22.77 KB, 400x300, 4:3, 183074.x.jpg)

>>552842

>>552846

I wanted to respond to these Catholic lies immediately, but of course the Catholic mod had banned me for several days. So:

>Roman Catholics (and Orthodox, and Orientals and Easterners) believe the both Popes (from Rome and Alexandria), patriarchs, bishops and each presbyter "inherited" (i.e. they were given by) the power to forgive sin from Peter

WRONG! Only the Catholics believe priests can forgive sins, Orthodox priests are just listeners and stand-ins for the community (James 5:16): "We do not confess “to” the priest; rather, we confess to God “in the presence of” the priest who, as the prayer before Confession clearly states, is God’s “witness” …"

https://oca.org/questions/sacramentconfession/confessing-in-the-presence-of-a-priest

>Roman Catholics belive that Peter succesor, Pope, have authority to define Dogma as Peter had.

It's written nowhere in the Bibe.

If it wasn't for the Catholic mods banning non-Catholics, Catholics would be swiftly refuted and driven off this board. The only reason large parts of Europe are Catholic at all is because wars and murder.


e15173 No.554723

>>554705

>God needs witnesses

This is the state of your ethno nationalist clubs you call churches


5469d0 No.554724

>>554723

Read the Bible fucking moron.


e15173 No.554736

>>554724

>the omnipotent, all-knowing and omnipresent Lord of the universe needs witnesses

>I'm the moron

I'm not even a little mad, just sad


5469d0 No.554739

>>554736

You're clearly a fedora autist who hasn't even read the Bible, or a Catholic, that's the same thing. You're so wrong, so stupid, and so lazy you're not worth an honest response.


a03fb8 No.554740

File: 2aea3f50d339bd4⋯.jpg (26.13 KB, 274x321, 274:321, durdurr.jpg)

>>554705

>Only the Catholics believe priests can forgive sins

>It's another ortholarper spouting nonsense

CCC 1448 Beneath the changes in discipline and celebration that this sacrament has undergone over the centuries, the same fundamental structure is to be discerned. It comprises two equally essential elements: on the one hand, the acts of the man who undergoes conversion through the action of the Holy Spirit: namely, contrition, confession, and satisfaction; on the other, God's action through the intervention of the Church. The Church, who through the bishop and his priests forgives sins in the name of Jesus Christ and determines the manner of satisfaction, also prays for the sinner and does penance with him. Thus the sinner is healed and re-established in ecclesial communion.


5469d0 No.554741

>>554740

>CCC 1448

???? You realize the CATHOLIC Catechism does not apply to the Orthodox Church?


e95a7a No.554753

>>554705

>Orthodox priests are just listeners and stand-ins for the community (James 5:16): "We do not confess “to” the priest; rather, we confess to God “in the presence of” the priest who, as the prayer before Confession clearly states, is God’s “witness” …"

The priest "forgives" sin in the sense that Christ forgives us through him. That is, the priest announces the sacrament of absolution, but Christ gives it. That is true for any sacrament, and that is true in Catholicism too.

>>554739

>>554724

>whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

Stop acting like insulting others will defend God.

>>554741

They are pointing out that the way you described the Orthodox understanding of sacramental absolution is the same in Catholicism.


5469d0 No.554761

File: 36711965da02107⋯.png (187.73 KB, 216x300, 18:25, remove_papist.png)

>>554753

>That is, the priest announces the sacrament of absolution, but Christ gives it.

You got it wrong bro. While the Orthodox priest announces the forgiveness to complete the sacrament, it is not actually forgiven, but left to God. Only you can ask God, and only God can forgive, NEVER the Church, the Church only does the formality of forgiving sin.

The best example I can give you is that the Orthodox Church cannot forgive sins after death, but the Catholic Church can, which is the theological basis for indulgence and has always been in place regardless of whether indulgences were sold or not. If the Orthodox Church was truly forgiving sin, then it would be possible to forgive sin after death as well.

So yeah, Orthodox Church = Biblical teaching, Catholic Church = pedophilia and lies.


71d063 No.554764

>>554761

>the Catholic Church can [forgive sins after death], which is the theological basis for indulgence

How_to_spot_a_LARPer_101.webm


e95a7a No.554770

>>554761

>While the Orthodox priest announces the forgiveness to complete the sacrament, it is not actually forgiven, but left to God. Only you can ask God, and only God can forgive, NEVER the Church, the Church only does the formality of forgiving sin.

The Church has received the power to bind and loose… The apostles have received the power to forgive or retain sin, and the bishops fulfill the same position as that of the apostles, and the priests are the proxies of the bishops… The Church absolutely does confirm that a sacrament is given and that sin is forgiven, even if the work itself is done by Christ.

>The best example I can give you is that the Orthodox Church cannot forgive sins after death

Wait, are you saying that sins cannot be forgiven after death, or even that the holy works of the Church cannot help the forgiveness of the sins of the deceased?


edccfd No.554979

>>554761

>when a protestant sniffs too much incense


e76cf3 No.555051

>>548563

> early Church

>primus inter pares

does not matter how many times I point out this expression did not exist until after the schism, you orthodox keep repeating it. Should I believe then that you are willfully bearing false witness?




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