Why the Reformation Should Make You More catholic

Email
Comment *
File	Select/drop/paste files here
* = required field	[▶ Show post options & limits] Confused? See the FAQ.

Flag
Embed	(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options	Do not bump (you can also write sage in the email field) Spoiler images (this replaces the thumbnails of your images with question marks)
Password	(For file and post deletion.)
Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf Max filesize is 16 MB. Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000. You may upload 5 per post.

File: 22ec64789720a7f⋯.png (274.23 KB, 1200x1600, 3:4, free-5-solas.png)

Why the Reformation Should Make You More catholic Christanon 10/30/17 (Mon) 23:38:22 72ad02 No.547229

>Five hundred years have changed the timescale somewhat (Protestantism no longer feels new or young from the inside), but not the basic truth claim. Reformation theological and liturgical reform is about being biblical and ancient. What Calvin asserted with brevity here in his letter to Sadoleto is what he developed at greater length in his Institutes, and also what a phalanx of reformers insisted on for year after year: The whole point of reform is to be more catholic than Rome will permit, by being more patristic than Rome will permit, by being more biblical than Rome will permit.

>Sadoleto’s charge was: You are novel; you have rejected the ancient church. Calvin’s response was: No, we are Protestant specifically so we can have the ancient church, and you are in our way. The Reformation doesn’t vault back over all of Christian history to stand alone and by itself on the Bible. It climbs over recent rubble (“contemplate the ruins of the church, as now surviving among yourselves,” Calvin admonishes Sadoleto; “It was not so long ago since those monsters of impiety with which we war were born, or at least, grew to such a size”) to reconnect with the great, vast heritage of ancient Christian confession of the truths of the Bible. We are Protestant specifically to be more catholic, to avoid the constriction and reduction that Rome requires.

Christanon 10/30/17 (Mon) 23:38:52 72ad02 No.547231

forgot the link

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/why-the-reformation-should-make-you-more-catholic

Christanon 10/30/17 (Mon) 23:42:36 199c37 No.547236

File: ed09e7dcf24b112⋯.jpg (12.04 KB, 176x255, 176:255, 8b1702bd0347dd3e3a80dece09….jpg)

>bamboozling us papists with these titles

absolutely sinful :DDD

>>547229

>The Reformation doesn’t vault back over all of Christian history to stand alone and by itself on the Bible.

I don't know if this is supposed to be a satire article, but that's exactly what Protestantism does. It throw out the doctrines and teachings of the apostles, Church Fathers and essentially many things that Christ himself taught (notably the Sacraments, which many Protestants ignore).

Christanon 10/30/17 (Mon) 23:44:28 199c37 No.547238

>>547236

>The Reformation doesn’t vault back over all of Christian history to stand alone and by itself on the Bible.

One more thing:

Also, even when it relies on Scripture alone, it still doesn't get everything right. I'm mainly getting rustled about the literalism of Protestantism, but they ignore the Real Presence (one of the most central things of our faith). Come on back home, guys.

Christanon 10/30/17 (Mon) 23:48:52 44e359 No.547241

>>547236

>medieval Roman innovation is "the doctrines and teachings of the apostles, Church Fathers and essentially many things that Christ himself taught"

>>547238

We want nothing to do with the mass. The abolition of the mass was the whole of the Reformation.

Christanon 10/30/17 (Mon) 23:50:07 1ab0f5 No.547244

>>547238

You got any resources to learn about Catholicism from someone who was raised in a Protestant environment? Everything about it seems pretty bizarre, from worshiping the saints to vainly repeating prayers dozens of times with a rosary. Other things about the religion intrigue me though.

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 00:12:00 5bcef6 No.547257

>>547238

As a Lutheran, we accept the Real Presence. Probably most Protestants do, but I don't know the exact percentages.

>>547241

>The abolition of the mass was the whole of the Reformation.

What? No. That's totally wrong. The Reformation's central focus was soteriology along with other things like the power of the Pope and getting the Bible in the vernacular. Luther never abolished the mass.

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 00:12:22 199c37 No.547259

File: 86fc2a317698727⋯.jpg (147.68 KB, 960x719, 960:719, 12143232_10154070819709204….jpg)

>>547241

<We want nothing to do with the mass. The abolition of the mass was the whole of the Reformation.

This makes my heart hurt, actually. I don't mean that in any negative or funny way. I try to pray for the reformers and current Protestants every day.

There is such a beauty in being in the presence of our Lord during the Sacrifice of the Mass, even more so during Eucharistic Adoration.. The Eucharist should be central to our faith, as it was established by Christ. The earliest Christians believed in the Real Presence. No offense to you, friend, but what does Protestantism replace the Eucharist (Christ) with? A man. What's the point of going to church just to listen to some pastor speak? The central point of the mass/church/service should be Christ.

>"‘Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’ So Jesus said to them, ‘Truly truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed’" (John 6:47-55).

>"For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, ‘This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’ In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant of my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.’ For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes" (1 Cor. 11:23-26).

<medieval Roman innovation

What doctrines do you think are medieval Roman innovation?

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 00:13:44 199c37 No.547262

File: 2bfe7bf42c97c35⋯.jpg (93.68 KB, 768x960, 4:5, 17523203_10155241339749204….jpg)

>>547244

Hi! I'd definitely recommend watching some videos from Bishop Barron, as he addresses a lot of concerns that Protestants have with Catholicism: https://www.youtube.com/user/wordonfirevideo/videos

I'd also recommend the resources his website: https://www.wordonfire.org/

For the most in-depth information, I'd recommend the CatholicAnswers website: https://www.catholic.com/tract

Just type in phrases to the search bar for what you want to read, such as 'praying to sainst' and you'll get great articles that clear up the belief and misconceptions that some people have, such as:

(1) https://www.catholic.com/tract/praying-to-the-saints

(2) https://www.catholic.com/tract/saint-worship

(3) https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-intercession-of-the-saints

Or about the rosary:

(1) https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-rosary

Also, if you have the time, you should read the testmony from Dr. Scott Hahn in his book Rome Sweet Home. He was a Presbyterian minister and used to be militantly ex-Catholic until he converted along with his wife.

May God bless you and I will be praying for you right now! Please feel free to ask us for any clarifications here in this thread or by making a thread with questions, we're eager to help.

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 00:20:34 38ce5b No.547266

>>547238

I think a lot of people think Anglicans and Lutherans here are nondenoms and Baptists - no offense intended.

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 00:21:05 1ab0f5 No.547267

>>547262

Thanks for all the links man, and the prayer.

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 00:24:11 311749 No.547271

>>547238

Outside of fringe groups, I think only Baptists deny the Real Presence, and they technically aren't Protestants anyway. The rest of the mainline Protestant denominations just don't believe in Transubstantiation.

I would love to come home, so to speak, but I just can't handle the veneration of the saints and icons, especially considering neither seems to have been present (at least in a definitive and recognizable form) for something like the first 200 years of the Church.

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 00:25:52 44e359 No.547274

>>547257

>What? No. That's totally wrong. The Reformation's central focus was soteriology along with other things like the power of the Pope and getting the Bible in the vernacular. Luther never abolished the mass.

The mass is taught to be a real and propitiatory sacrifice. It is incredibly soteriological. The main focus of the Reformation was soteriological and liturgical reform, all of which are summarized in the abolition of the mass.

>>547259

>I try to pray for the reformers and current Protestants every day.

Thank you for the thought. We pray for you as well.

>The earliest Christians believed in the Real Presence

We believe in real presence too, we simply reject transubstantiation.

>what does Protestantism replace the Eucharist (Christ) with? A man. What's the point of going to church just to listen to some pastor speak

I see your point, and in a sense I agree. Before the Reformation, men came to church to worship bread. After the Reformation, men come to church to worship God in spirit and truth.

>What doctrines do you think are medieval Roman innovation?

Transubstantiation

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 00:28:23 38ce5b No.547276

>>547271

That's absolutely fine - it's a question of dulia vs latria. I agree with one and done though. I'd love to see a return to full mutual communion across Christendom.

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 00:34:36 5bcef6 No.547283

>>547266

Genuine Lutheran here.

>>547274

Not considering the mass a sacrifice is very different from abolishing the mass. I went to Lutheran mass last Sunday, which would be impossible if the mass had been abolished.

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 00:36:08 44e359 No.547287

>>547283

Did you put bread up in a monstrance and fall down before it to give it the worship of latria?

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 00:42:13 38ce5b No.547292

>>547287

no and neither do the vast majority of Roman churches

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 02:16:48 c4aa9e No.547367

File: 0fa2fa0fbd68ae1⋯.png (1.32 MB, 902x1064, 451:532, Jean_Calvin.png)

>>547229

>Man those Early christians are dumb with their too literal interpretation of the Bible I'm gonna go be a real Church father and put my lawyer education into practice.

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 05:45:21 994111 No.547433

>>547292

UCLA catholic center has benediction of the blessed sacrament every week and is VERY liberal

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 06:11:39 dd78e2 No.547437

>>547257

What? No. The reformation's central focus was allowing Henry VIII to divorce

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 06:37:17 dd78e2 No.547440

>>547257

What? No, the central focus of the reformation was to be able to sin boldly because trying not to sin is too hard.

(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST)

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 06:38:58 dd78e2 No.547442

>>547440

What? No. The central focus of the reformation was to deny free will

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 06:41:48 dd78e2 No.547445

>>547442

What? No. The reformation's central focus was to reestablish the independent baptist churches crushed in the catholic trail of blood and to reestablish our lord and saviour KJV

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 06:44:57 dd78e2 No.547447

>>547276

Recommune with the seat of peter then if you would love to

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 06:46:21 dd78e2 No.547448

>>547292

Ummm yeah we do. Whenever I pass the blessed sacrament I genuflect (not bow) in latria for the one true God.

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 08:52:39 a8340d No.547465

File: ccc3082a77fcb77⋯.gif (324.68 KB, 500x280, 25:14, ccc3082a77fcb77480d02d611b….gif)

Six posts in a row. Amazing.

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 15:12:51 6d4f27 No.547590

>>547448

Genuflection is a form of bowing

Christanon 10/31/17 (Tue) 16:36:34 45d52f No.547623

>>547276

I love you and this thread. I also desire for ecumenism but I think the fact that protestants and Roman Catholics having to realign themselves towards Orthodoxy will be the biggest hurdle. I can't even have a conversation with a protestant about church history because it's all blank for them pre-reformation. I have been having some struggles as to explaining what I know now as latria/dulia thanks to you and others. Cheers!