/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>talking to God

>for over an hour

What makes you think it will affect the romans 8:8? Meaning of words > matthew 23:14

>>546730

Not sure what you mean. True prayer is not of the flesh, but of the spirit and heart. Paul says we should pray without ceasing.

>>546734

Yea, don't ever quit talking to God permenentelly. Not don't stop talking to God incessently against what matthew 23:14 says.

>>546736

Let's set aside Paul for a moment since prayer of the heart might be foreign to you.

In response to Jesus suggesting the apostles pray for an hour you respond with Romans 8:8 and Matthew 23:14. Comparing Christs' request to the pharisees praying vainly out of pride and comparing prayer to the activity of the flesh that can't please God.

>>546729

All my prayer sessions are at least 1 hour long, so of course. Plus there's the Jesus Prayer thoughout the day, although I've lost the will to do it unfortunately.

>What was it like? Did you notice any spiritual/psychological differences afterwards?

You can see things with the "organ" of the Spirit, so to speak, after you learn to know what humility is. Things are more clear, you can more easily distinguish between what is of God and what is of the devil, and your love for both God and His creation increases. To be a Christian is not an exercise in gaining anything… It's an exercise in losing everything, even our own faith, and replace them with that which is of God. We cannot let our senses be completely aimed toward God without "putting on" God, so to speak (which we do most clearly with the Eucharist).

>How did you do it?

This is my prayer rule:

- Following the morning/evening prayers in my prayer book

- Confess my sins if it's the evening prayers

- Add my own intercessions for others

- At least 100 Jesus Prayers

- Read out loud a chapter of the Scriptures (I got a new Bible so I've been re-reading them from the beginning) and meditate on them until the next prayer session

>>546730

Psalm 51… What God wants as an offering is not the flesh, but the spirit. A contrite and broken heart. How do you keep a contrite and broken heart at all times, except by worshipping God in all humility constantly?

>>546745

Oh yeah, and I do Jesus Prayers for others too… I usually use the morning prayer session's Jesus Prayers for myself, and the evening prayer session's Jesus Prayers for others. Instead of saying "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me," I say, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on [name]" then say "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on him/her" to avoid focusing too much on their name. But the demons struggle harder to lead me to destruction when I'm not prepared enough, so if I've been being lazy with my prayers, I avoid praying for others like that.

>>546745

Thanks for the tips, I think I need to get a prayer book soon.

>>546744

Well romans 14:23 applies here. You said

>I'm gonna try it. I think an hour at night or in the morning would be beneficial.

Heavily implying you don't beleive what 1 timothy 6:5 says especially about romans 8:8 in application to matthew 23:14 because of 1 timothy 6:10.

>>546750

>you find prayer beneficial and that's wrong

Be that as it may the issue you have is with Christ, not me, He suggested 1 hour prayers, which you are averse too comparing them to the pharisees' vanity…

>>546753

>He suggested 1 hour prayers

Where is it said in the Bible?

>>546756

> “So, could you not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

Matthew 26:36-46, he tells Peter and the two sons of Zebedee to sit and wait for him while he prays. He returns to find the disciples asleep and says "Could you not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation." So he's disappointed that instead of praying and being vigilant for only an hour they fell asleep. He goes off to pray some more, returns and finds them sleeping. Upon returning he repeats the same message. "So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words again"…this happens 3 times. So He went off to pray for about three hours, while his disciples kept falling asleep, and he rebuked them several times to "watch and pray for an hour"….

>>546758

>and he rebuked them several times

Oops, not sure if it was several or only once. But he did recommend it atleast once.

>>546758

Well yea, Jesus gave them a direct order to stand watch for an hour. After the first hour he also ordered them to pray while they watched. The suggestion was to obey Him. It is not said how long Jesus was gone for after the first time which was said to be an hour long. So the second and third times could have been ten minutes for all we know.

>>546760

>the first time which was said to be an hour long. So the second and third times could have been ten minutes for all we know.

if Jesus himself prayed for over an hour why would you liken it to the pharisees blabbering in vain?, or romans 8:8?

You think if he came back and saw the disciples awake and praying for an hour he'd tell them to knock it off?

>>546730

>>talking to God

>>for over an hour

Why is an hour so long for you?

>>546761

>if Jesus himself prayed for over an hour why would you liken it to the pharisees blabbering in vain?

I didn't compare Jesus to said verse. I compared you to said verse because you were supposing it was "beneficial" or supposing that godlyness is gain against 1 timothy 6:5

>Why is an hour so long for you?

An hour is not too long for me. I stated such because meaning is greater than matthew 23:14. That's what I started out saying here >>546730

>>546762

>I didn't compare Jesus to said verse. I compared you to said verse because you were supposing it was "beneficial"

You started your response by green-texting the length of time,

>talking to God

>for over one hour

implying you had a problem with the duration, And so you referred to matthew 23:14 which is a verse that speaks about the long prayers of pharisees…

>supposing that godlyness is gain 1 timothy 6:5

Read the next verse, read the full context. "But godliness with contentment is great gain". Prayer for me facilitates contentment, repentance, and a peace that is not bound to the flesh. So yes prayer is beneficial, not in the worldly/financial/conceited sense 1 Timothy 6:5 warns against, but in the spiritual sense it approves of.

>Has anyone here prayed for an hour or more at a time?

Only in non christian contexts

>What was it like? Did you notice any spiritual/psychological differences afterwards?

Euphoria, and an intense feeling of peace and understanding

>How did you do it?

One was repeating a mantra continuously

One was being asked the same question repeatedly and answering it as best I could each time

Overall Im really distrustful of it, and I am fairly sure its got more to do with hypnosis and self hypnosis than experiencing God or Devils. Its often why its combined with other practices that place the body understress like fasting and staying still and un stimulated.

That said whilst cults do abuse this most users of it arent deceitful.

brother… brother

when you pray for five or fifteen minutes you will feel as if you have done something worthy of credit and blessings

when you pray for an hour you will realize that it was nothing and that you have not done anything worth a warm bucket of spit, that you have in fact only benefited yourself in a selfish manner

then you develop the thousand yard stare where you see past all things yet still feel yourself enticed by them

the utter and abject humiliation of the realization that you are not as holy as you thought is crushing

and you may try to find solace in video games or music or any number of things but it cannot last

and in the end you will be broken on the rock of Christ and you will truly submit in your heart for the first time (you will realize it is the first time)

but that day is a long, long way away.

>>546775

hey friend I find that I have been more active and productive if I have prayed for a longer time.

you do not need a set prayer that lasts an hour you can go to a sacred place and be alone with God for a while. if you do that you will likely not notice the time.

however, praying the full rosary (15 or 20 decades, going through joyful, [luminous], sorrowful, and glorious mysteries) can easily last an hour.

the benefit of saying formula prayers over personal heartfelt prayers is that you can develop discipline and it is also a personal sacrifice of your time and attention (the most valuable thing you have) directly to God. Whereas a heartfelt prayer may be more emotionally moving but it is something that you wanted to do anyway so it is not so much of a sacrifice.

>>546729

Pray for however the fuck you want, do it for 356 days, dont give a crap. The problem is you feel the need to tell the world about this for ulterior self congratulation, all you want to do is silently boast and think God's clapping solely for you. Fuck you asshat

>>546777

I see your point. Also checked.

>>546745

I wish I had the willpower to do this

>>546729

It's nice to do. I always ask for God and the saints' guidance when meditating. It helps me keep my thoughts actions and purpose ordered towards God and gives great inspiration.

In general though it is better to do short and frequent prayers according to St John of Chrysostom otherwise you get lost and forget what you're praying about

>>546729

Just follow a prayer book. If you feel like putting more effort in then organize some kind of routine for yourself (The Lord's Prayer, some Psalms, &c.). It's really not that hard.

>>546810

Yes

>>547085

It's a short interview of a Romanian priest on youtube. I don't have a link.

>>546730

stop hafizposting

>>546763

All protestants are brainlets. That's why it's thriving in Latin America.

>>547400

Sola scriptural + illiteracy + junk food diet, tbh

>>547400

it's less stupidity and has more to do with its emotional/individualist appeal

the rhetoric is a big draw for extroverts who like things yelled out for them, and the individuals do not need to submit themselves to the Church, just scripture which is easy to twist and subvert

see: masturbators

I was at a bible class and was told that these passages

matthew 23:14

matthew 6:5

don't mean what most christians think they mean.

You see the pharisees and pagans had a way of praying where they would be very verbose and ramble on in order not to "get caught" by some technicality. As if God or whatever deity would punish if you didn't get the prayer just right. Think of the story of King Midas or a story where there's a monkey's paw.

After learning this I have no qualms praying they rosary or for a long period of time. The Lords prayer is given to us by Jesus, so pray it.

>>547085

Here you go, anon.

>>547111

When i went to go look up "Romanian priest interveiw" i couldn't really find it, but was able to once i looked up "i have never enjoyed living in the world."

>>547431

Regardless thank you to both anons for the source and the video.

>>547434

>>547434

Many of these romanian priests/hermits were persecuted under communist rule, and lived really hard and unpleasant lives.

So they aren't just expressing some generic dissatisfaction with life. Vid related.

>>548073

>So they aren't just expressing some generic dissatisfaction with life. Vid related.

Yes, despite being ignorant of his life, i figured he was living a difficult one due to probably being a monk in the wilderness. Thanks for the background info though.

>>547400

Haha

Fucking Dago

>>546777

if you are orthodox there is the eastern prayer rule

http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/files/rule.pdf

>>546729

I've never done that, but it sound like something I really should do.

>>546756

Dude. What.

>>546730

oh I missed this

HAAH WAAW

Luke 6:12

>>546730

once you people find out what heaven is really like, oh boy…

>>546745

What prayer book do you use?

I've been looking at the Jordanville book. I've heard very good things about it

Also, a follow up, do you use a psalter? I'm not exactly sure of their purpose in prayer

>>562362

I'm a frog person who uses a French prayer book. It is titled simply "Prayer Book" and is released by the Romanian Orthodox Church, under the Apostolia editions. It's very complete - common prayers, morning prayers, evening prayers, the Daily Office, the liturgical calendar, etc.

But I don't know about English-language prayer books, sorry.

I do have a psalter, but I don't use it yet - I've been re-reading the Bible, I'll use the psalter once I'm done, so not anytime soon. But at least I have it somewhere.

It's good to have in your prayer rule a couple of psalms that resonate with you. Also, the psalter is divided into 20 kathismas, and the calendar of the Daily Office demands to read certain kathismas on certain days - for instance, from the Exaltation of the Holy Cross to the eve of Christmas:

- Sunday: Matins - kathismas 2, 3, 17

- Monday: Matins - kathismas 4, 5, 6; Vespers: kathisma 18

- Tuesday: Matins - kathismas 7, 8, 9; Vespers: kathisma 18

- Wednesday: Matins - kathismas 10, 11, 12; Vespers: kathisma 18

- Thursdays: Matins - kathismas 13, 14, 15; Vespers: kathisma 18

- Friday: Matins - kathismas 19, 20; Vespers: kathisma 18

- Saturday: Matins - kathismas 16; 17; Vespers: kathisma 1

>tfw prayerlet

;_;

>>546745

do you have to fast and do penances for that organ to work?

I wish I could have that too.

>>562445

A life of prayer of course comes with a life of fasting and a life of penance… They are one and the same thing - humility toward God and a realization that without Him we are nothing and we can do nothing for our salvation.

But it's not like this is a mechanical system, where penance+fasting+prayer=salvation, and a certain dosage of penance, of fasting, and of prayer, give you a certain amount of points toward salvation. As St. Paul points out in 1 Corinthians, the Spirit gives something different to everyone. Allow me to point out that what matters is not how much you pray, or how much you abstain from food, or how strict your penances are, but with how much humility you do these things, which is synonymous with how much love for God you do these things.

You don't need to do something special to pray with intensity and to immerge yourself in God's Spirit - if you are a baptized Christian, I'm sure you can start now, although it might be a bumpy ride if you're not chrismated in the Orthodox Church (but I believe God is merciful nonetheless).

My situation since >>546745 has gotten much worse… While I do think about God constantly, even when I sin, I've been having a hard time gathering the motivation to actually pray, or to fast, and besides I've been doubting certain doctrines of the Orthodox Church - enough to temporarily remove the Orthodox flag, as you can see. I've just been feeling depressed overall.

If you want to learn more about the Orthodox approach to prayer, I suggest taking a look at these:

- Tales of a Russian Pilgrim (in 2 parts)

- The Ladder of Divine Ascent

- The Philokalia (in 4 parts in English, out of 5 - the last one isn't translated yet)

- Of course, the New Testament, but I think you've read it already

But don't try to apply these things to your life if you're not Orthodox - it's very dangerous, at least that's what we believe. We generally abstain from talking about Orthodox spirituality with the non-Orthodox, simply because an Orthodox prayer life must go along with a life within the Orthodox Church and its sacraments, our anchor to prevent us from slipping into pride and delusion. So, if you're not Orthodox, read these works, but with a spirit of curiosity, not with the intent to replicate its teachings without the direction of an Orthodox priest - although I'm sure there are things you can apply to your own prayer life without a problem.

>>562944

>But don't try to apply these things to your life if you're not Orthodox - it's very dangerous,

It might interest you but Tibetan Buddhists have the same system set up to protect people from the effects of contemplation

>>562944

>I've been lacking motivation

Do you know the difference between motivation and dedication?