/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>540524

>he becomes his own father

Wrong

>>540524

>God created Adam and Eve, who sinned and God blames us all for that thousands of years later

wrong, God blamed A&E for not repenting.

>God kicked Adam and Eve out of Eden and ignored humanity for a few centuries

wrong, He always sent prophets to us, asides from consciousness of Man, that every human has and dictates right choices.

>nd then choose some tiny back water desert tribe as his 'chosen people' who then fail him repeatedly.

Wrong, Jews were quite developed in the region. And the theory of being chosen was that Saviour would be born in tribe.

>After that, he becomes his own father in order to sacrifice himself to himself to save us all from himself.

wrong, this is Unitarian garbage. Hypostasis of Father and Son are different. And He doesnt "save us" from himself, as He doesnt punish us, but you do this due to your hatred of God, which is hell. Not a boiling cauldron, not a big furnace, but you burn in your own hatred of God.

>>540530

Genesis 3:23

Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "– 23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.…

where is the opportunity to repent you were talking about?

and Hebrews were third rate as a power, they got pwned by the Egyptians, the Persians, The Romans,,, and probably half a dozen others.

>>540538

>where is the opportunity to repent you were talking about?

8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.

9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

Do you really believe that God didn't knew where Adam was? Or didnt knew what he had done? no, He was giving him chance to repent.

>Funny how your savior doesn't agree with you.

Read John Romanides and Alexandros Kalominos

http://www.orthodoxebooks.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/The%20River%20Of%20Fire%20-%20Doctor%20Alexandre%20Kalomiros.pdf

>Do you even read the Bible? Or do you just stick to the coloring books in the kiddie room.

Ill ignore your degenerate insults due to your ignorance.

>>540524

>God created Adam and Eve, who sinned and God blames us all for that thousands of years later.

www.newadvent.org/cathen/11312a.htm

>God kicked Adam and Eve out of Eden and ignored humanity for a few centuries

Wrong, read your Bible.

>and then choose some tiny back water desert tribe as his 'chosen people' who then fail him repeatedly.

Correct.

>After that, he becomes his own father

He isn't His own Father; God the Father is another person of the Trinity.

>in order to sacrifice himself to himself to save us all from himself.

www.calledtocommunion.com/2010/04/catholic-and-reformed-conceptions-of-the-atonement/

test

>>540530

>wrong, this is Unitarian garbage. Hypostasis of Father and Son are different. And He doesnt "save us" from himself, as He doesnt punish us, but you do this due to your hatred of God, which is hell. Not a boiling cauldron, not a big furnace, but you burn in your own hatred of God.

>when the "Orthodox" are actually heterodox

>Trying to believe

Based on your tone in this thread, hardly. If you're serious about wanting to become Christian, please eat some humble pie and change your tone. We're more than happy to help you but you have to cooperate to make that happen.

>>540524

>Did I miss anything?

The most important part is where God created Adam and Eve. And not only did God create all things living, he also sustains them every second of every day. If He wanted to, he would only have to stop giving his breath to someone and they would disintegrate instantly. And he is also the real source of everything truly good in this world, yet most people decide not to recognize any of this but want to think and act like they created themselves and have the right to demand things of God, instead of accepting the facts and listening. And caring about the truth.

>>540551

Who is John Romanidas and how does he manage to be a better authority on Christ then Jesus in the Gospels?

>>540673

>I am Jesus in the Gospels

What manner of pride has struck you?

>>540556

okay.. I have read the Bible, this is how I am using quotes from it to illustrate my questions. I would really appreciate it if you would quote scripture to support your responses so that I can better understand.

You hear a lot people saying a lot of things are in the bible and a lot of them are wrong.

>>540676

I never said that I was Jesus. I merely quoted him from the Gospels. How is that Pride? Aren't I supposed to study and ask questions.? I know my questions are difficult and awkward, that's why I am asking them here so I don't offend any of my church friends.

>>540524

>God created Adam and Eve, who sinned and God blames us

Wrong.

>then choose some tiny back water desert tribe as his 'chosen people' who then fail him repeatedly.

Misleading

>he becomes his own father

Category error

>sacrifice himself to himself to save us all from himself.

Misrepresentation and misleading.

>

>>540530

>God doesn't punish us

I see what you mean, but this is pretty wonky wording.

Punishment does come from God. And this punishment also does come down to burning in our own hatred of God (or rather, our own love of sin).

>>540556

Wait.. what…. How? This Trinity thing is really confusing. Why do they call this "person" who is God the Father if he is not the Father of the Son (who is Christ, right?) and where is this in Bible? Is it implied in Genesis because it says "We"?

>>540681

What I am saying is, "I read this literally and I'm 100% sure its meant to be read literally" is not a argument.

>Funny how your savior doesn't agree with you.

>your savior

<your savior

>>540681

>my church friends

>>540681

>Wait.. what….

>Wait.. what…. How? This Trinity thing is really confusing.

Ok, I suspect you're being disingenuous. You already posted the fidget spinner at the beginning of this thread, so why are you still acting this confused? Are you some sort of pagan cube worshipper?

Is this whole thread taqiyya?

>>540686

Perhaps the wording was confusing, I meant that God the Father isn't God the Son.

>>540679

I'm talking about the first chapters of Genesis for your specific claim.

Also read about the concept of Divine Providence, God absolutely doesn't ignore what is happening in the world.

>>540751

Providence is also a tough concept. If everything is Gods will are we destined to sin and if we are destined to sin how do we have free will

>>540719

Not everything is a conspiracy

>>540796

I had to ask anyway, because it just seems too off and I've seen the "innocent" anti-Trinitarian thread before.

>>540799

Where is the Trinty described in the bible. Did Moses believe I'm it

>>540803

Thank you for sharing.

>>540802

1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Matthew 28:19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Colossians 2:8-9

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

>>540611

The holy Spirit was considered as a cloud in the old testament, and I've heard before of the phrase 'ashes to ashes, dust to dust' when people die. If we're made of the ashes of fallen Eden, being kept alive because of this cloud or Holy Spirit, then we are living in the labrynthine area outside Eden (which I have a feeling that Lazarus in the Bible was attributed to), and when we die we find our way to heaven, or Eden remade as promised. Ghosts are spirits in purgatory finding their way out of this labrynth, where they are trapped by time. I've also heard that Lucifer's original sin–besides defying God and causing war–was messing with time. And with time comes death, so Lucifer is also known as the Angel of Death.

>>540814

Anyways, I don't feel I have the wisdom to continue down this path of contemplation, especially if I haven't fully read the Bible, so I'm going to take some rest before I try to figure other things out.

>>540814

What's your point?

The Holy Spirit was not considered a cloud in the actual Old Testament. Nowhere is anything remotely like that said. Some Talmudic teaching might ascribe this to people living then, but that is neither right nor does it mean they were right even if they had. The Israelites had many errant beliefs throughout their history. Good thing they didn't author the Old Testament.

>>540524

You missed what the bible actually says. Don't worry, I was at this stage of pretending to have read it while spitting acid at the faithful. You grow out of it.

>>540820

Well if the Holy Spirit is a breath of life, then humans are like ragdolls manifested of matter–or 'clay'–whose true being is Divine–from God. But you're right on authorship of the old testament. What mattered most got passed down to us in the Bible, the details of the tribal judaic faith are less important.

Adam and Eve sinned, and were kicked from paradise unto a fallen world. They had children, who populated the Earth. Later, God made a pact with a man named Abraham, to make his seed populate all of the earth and bring salvation to the world, I'm return Abraham was to keep a few rules, one of which is circumcision. Later, Abraham's descendents were enslaved by Egypt, and God called unto a man named Moses to free them, which he did, and then give them sovereignty over a nation-state, with a specific legal code that we call the Mosaic Law, which included things such as not eating shellfish and stoning homosexuals. From Moses on, there were many prophets that God sent saying that a Messiah would come and would write the law unto the hearts of Israel and put His spirit upon them. These include prophets like Isaiah, his prophecy being one of the most explicit and direct (see Isaiah 53). Eventually, this Messiah was born in the form of Jesus, who we call the Christ, which means Messiah. He came because we as fallen peoples living in a fallen world cannot ourselves follow the laws that God gave us to the degree that warrants us paradise. God Himself, in the person of Jesus who is a person of the triune God, then fulfilled the law and gave Himself up to be a sacrificial lamb, a "passover" lamb in the frame of the lambs that were slaughtered in order for God's angel to "pass over" His wrath upon a home to the Egyptians during the time of Exodus. Christ took the punishment that we deserved and fulfilled the law that we did not, in order to give us a way to return to paradise. In having our faith in Christ and taking on the Holy Spirit, He becomes our representative and substitute on judgment day. By His grace, we are saved.

>>541137

Thank you for the summary. Is it to not eat shellfish, or to not eat selfishly?

>>541417

The former for the Old Testament, and latter for the New Testament. Actually I think the latter apply for both testaments, but whatever.

>>541423

Yeah it makes sense. Why else is gluttony known as a harsh sin? But I guess doing anything selfishly is a recipe for disaster. Lucifer was very selfish in the war for heaven, hoarding trinkets of beauty until they turned into coal or black substance, the same as his heart.

>>541756

>Am I the only one with doubts?

Nope!

>Is it a sin to voice these doubts

Nope!

>>541756

No and Note the example of Thomas: He was a skeptic, but rational and normal skeptic, so when presented with evidence, he acknowledged the truth, unlike modern """skeptics""" that will reject any evidence to defend their position