/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Genuine question - why on earth do you want to convert if that's what you believe? That is basically an anti-Christian checklist. Some of them like transhumanism, eugenics and misanthropy are even directly contradictory. I suspect you are trolling us.

Protips:

1. You convert to the faith, not vice versa. You need to drop pretty much everything on that list if you want to follow Christ.

2. You convert because you love God, not because you fear Hell.

I will pray for your regardless.

i don't think you're beyond hope, you sound a lot like my edgy early 20's phase. (other than the veganism and weird sexual stuff)

obviously you hate God.

your love of death (Proverbs 8:35-36) and the last two meme arrows attest to this.

are you able to articulate why? why it is that you find the things you've mentioned you don't like in the old testament detestable?

are you able to lay out a solid foundation for what's wrong and what's wrong, what God should do and what God shouldn't do to compare and contrast the one that exists and the one that you think should exist based on anything other than emotion?

what's your relationship with your father like? are you projecting it onto your relationship with God?

Have you considered that your opinion on some of these things might change if you joined a denomination and learned more about Christian belief?

>>535627

>You convert because you love God, not because you fear Hell

But I don’t really want to stop any of these things.

>>535629

I find these actions horrendous because I have empathy towards people’s suffering. I don’t feel like I have to explain why widespread genocide is objectionable.

>>535616

>veganism

You're not required to eat meat but you definitely have to accept that killing animals for food is not inherently sinful

>mockery and detestation of Old Testament (can’t stand all of the killing, blood sacrifices, wars, sexist laws, racially discrimatory laws, body mutilation and dismemberment, etc)

God is just. Where does your morality to condemn these things come from?

>>535627

>Some of them like transhumanism, eugenics and misanthropy are even directly contradictory

Why? I suspect that you’re referring to the misanthropy statement. That term doesn’t always imply a hatred of humanity; mainly a dislike and distrust of most people.

>>535637

>But I don’t really want to stop any of these things.

Then you love sin. Stop.

>>535640

By your logic, god could do any harmful action that he pleases, and you would accept it as moral.

Suffering is bad, in and of itself.

Eating meat requires the killing of animals, and killing anything in any capacity is wicked, imo

>>535628

>Wouldn't it be enough to say, "I had gay sex"?

Because their heart convicts them until they admit everything they liked about it; partly a demonic desire to entice the priest into it, partly needing to be told that it can be made right.

>>535646

>646

Looks like you posted 20 spots too early, Satan.

>>535645

>By your logic, god could do any harmful action that he pleases, and you would accept it as moral.

God can't sin.

>Suffering is bad, in and of itself.

Nope. Suffering can help us improve in many ways. For example lifting heavy weights makes me suffer, but it also makes me stronger. Sometimes suffering helps us appreciate things in life more.

>Eating meat requires the killing of animals, and killing anything in any capacity is wicked, imo

On what basis can you say this? Many animals kill each other in the most painful ways imaginable, we are quite merciful in comparison. If God created both animals and human and said we can eat animals why would it be wrong?

>>535646

>Do what feels right

MODERNISTS

I do not see anything that'd keep you from The Episcopal Church

God is allowed to kill his own creations.

He does anyway, of course—natural death is part of God's plan just as much as violent death. In the end, God kills every living thing on earth.

If God really commanded the Israelites to kill certain people, that is not murder, because it was primarily God who killed those people, using the Israelites as his instrument.

A few years passed, and God killed every one of those Israelites, too.

So my first point is: Old Testament massacres are not any more of an argument against a good God than death in general is. If you can believe in a God who allows his creatures to die, you can believe in a God who commanded killings at certain specific times and places.

Next point: for humans, this life is not the end. It shouldn't need mentioning, but it does.

You hope for eternal life in this world because you don't believe in eternal life after death.

Well, guess what: God believes in eternal life after death.

To bring a beloved son out of this corrupt world and into a perfect one where he can reside happily with you for all eternity is an act of love, not evil.

The biggest problem with your worldview is a utilitarian emphasis on satisfying desires.

Desires do not contain any inherent moral imperative that they be satisfied. You can know that this is the case because desires are often contradictory. If contradictory desires both morally required you to satisfy them, then it would be impossible for you to behave morally well, which is a contradiction in terms.

Your desires are arranged in a hierarchy. The only desire that creates a demand upon your will is the single highest desire that you have. This is because it virtually contains every lower desire.

Suppose I could give you any one thing at all. Anything. What should you ask for?

An idiot would choose some finite good, like a harem full of virgins.

A slightly smarter person would ask for a reliable means of obtaining other goods, like a hundred billion dollars.

An even smarter person would ask for a means of obtaining the reliable means of obtaining other goods, say, to become able to learn and memorize any subject of study with ease, or to become irresistably charismatic.

Notice how we've moved here: the low physical good at first, then the high physical "means" to low physical goods, then higher mental/personality/spiritual qualities which allow you to make gobs of money at will.

But beyond that, you could ask for the wisdom to know what goodness IS. To know what exactly it is, that all of these lesser "goods" have in common, so that they are all accurately termed "goods".

And even beyond THAT…

You could ask to possess GOODNESS ITSELF, and contemplate it face to face.

I assert that this is, in fact, your REAL highest desire: to possess goodness itself.

In other words, this is the ONE desire you have which actually creates a moral imperative for you. It is the one desire you can never change, and it is the one desire which can never contradict any of the others.

I am here to tell you that GOD IS GOODNESS ITSELF, and that the promise of HEAVEN is precisely the promise of obtaining this, the highest object of desire in every human heart, which contains and subordinates every lower object of desire.

And this God has loved men so much that he has come down from heaven to earth, in flesh and blood, and showed us the Way to come into eternal life with him. His name is Jesus Christ.

He proved that what he said was true by rising from the dead.

Set down your pride already. It's a heavier burden than you think. Throw it out, and you'll feel light in a way you've probably forgotten that it was possible to feel.

Quiz:

Jesus said (Matthew 11:29), "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am…" (fill in the blank)

What's the answer?

1. …wise as a serpent, yet gentle as a dove.

2. …the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last.

3. …the Way, the Truth and the Life.

4. …meek and humble of heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

So. Why should we learn from Jesus? What's the reasoning that Jesus gives? I'll leave it to you.

>>535708

Also this. If you're being serious than you really contradict yourself.

>>535616

you are in a good path toward the truth, don't give up because you feel the need to join some bigger group of individuals

>>535856

>you’re contradicting yourself

Not really. I don’t believe that animation takes place immediately after conception. Once the fetuses nervous system starts to develop, I stop at that point.

There’s nothing wrong with eugenics; some people shouldn’t be allowed to reproduce

>>535839

I’m not a nihilist; im just an anti-materialist. I only promote trans humanism for people who can’t escape the material realm; technology makes life on earth a bit more tolerable

>>536155

>life is either sacred or its not

Souls are sacred. Once a soul is born into this realm, they now have a mind-body connection. Making a soul suffer is wicked. It’s not as simple as you think

>why?

Because some people are just not responsible/capable of raising children. That should have been a no brained.

>no it doesn’t

I guess you miss the days without cars, computers, air conditioning, sewer systems, roads, water sanitation, indoor plumbing, housing, etc. I never implied that technology is the solution to all of our woes, but to claim that it doesn’t improve our lives is absurd.

>>536155

Here’s a prime example of why some people shouldn’t reproduce: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3011407/Winfreys-network-series-dad-34-children.html

Is that what you want? A bunch of idiots pumping out babies like vending machines? Vascetomies should be subsidized.

>>536151

>Once the fetuses nervous system starts to develop, I stop at that point.

What makes you think it's wrong after that?

>>536160

>Souls are sacred. Once a soul is born into this realm, they now have a mind-body connection. Making a soul suffer is wicked. It’s not as simple as you think

How can a soul be sacred? Based upon what? Life is worthless so what makes a soul special?

>Because some people are just not responsible/capable of raising children. That should have been a no brained.

Then teach them to. Or give the kids away. Don't sterilise them.

>cars, air con, computers

Oh no, how will we survive!

Everything else lited there is nothing like the transhumanism that you propose, making this one of the falsest equivalences that I have ever seen.

>>536164

So what? They are misguided and without direction. Are we supposed to feel anything for him other than pity? If you are that concerned, volunteer, adopt, teach, reach out to these people and help them.

If you are an anti-materialist, why do you care about it?

>Vascetomies should be subsidized.

>but this guy pumping out 34 kids is a drain on our taxes!

(you)

>>536171

>Everything else lited there is nothing like the transhumanism that you propos

It’s still a form of technology. Trans humanism simply applies technology to overcome human limitations.

By the way, I live in Missouri. Try living there in the winter with no air conditioning.

>If you are that concerned, volunteer, adopt, teach, reach out to these people and help them

I don’t have the time or money to adopt any children. Plus, I don’t even like being around children, so why would I adopt?

I don’t want to teach. I’ve done tutoring work at my university, though.

I believe the soul originates from the realm of the Divine source. You can have your beliefs, but you’re strawmanning like a motherfucker. Stop that.

>but this guy pumping out 34 kids is a drain on our taxes!

Subsidizing sterilization (vascetomies and tubal ligations) would be a lot cheaper than allowing a multitude of idiots to reproduce. Don’t underestimate how costly children really are

>>536171

but this guy pumping out 34 kids is a drain on our taxes!

Vascetomies and tubal ligations are much cheaper than a child. Jokes on you

>>535616

>Abortion is find because they aren't sentient

>killing vegetables isn't fine

>killing people with mental disabilities that make them not sentient isn't fine

>>536222

>killing people with mental disabilities that make them not sentient

They still have a soul. Plus, the family members would suffer tremendously if we killed them.

>>535637

>widespread genocide

what

You don't mold yourself into a good Christian then convert, you convert first and then reform yourself through God, the church, your community, and through good works. You have a lifetime to do it, don't put it off for even a day but don't expect to 180 your entire life perspective with just the snap of a finger either. Have patience.

"And hearing this, Jesus said to them, ""It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."" Mark 2:17

>>536151

>Once the fetuses nervous system starts to develop, I stop at that point.

The nervous system starts developing in week 4. Most abortions are done in the first 13 weeks. I think you mean when the fetus can feel pain?

Take that to it's logical conclusion: If the death is painless, then it's alright to kill.

Would you eat meat if the animal did not feel pain when it died?

>>536223

>They still have a soul

Yeah and so do unborn children

>>535637

>But I don't really want to stop any of these things

When Elija called Elisha for the first time, he threw him his cloak. Elisha knew what this meant and asked to kiss his mother goodbye before he left.

Elija knew that this meant he was really going to ask his mother for permission to go, so he said he could either come right then or not come at all.

In the book "Pilgrim's Progress", John Bunyan describes Christian as having a massive burden weighing him down, a burden nobody else saw except other Christians. He layed it on the ground byt the cross and he was freed from it.

If you wish to follow God, you must give up the burden of sin. It's a blessing to even recognize it as a burden and you must give it up if you wish to follow God.

"I don't really want to stop" is bullshit, this is horribly self destructive behavior - all sin is.

You're going to have to choose, eternal life and peace or your sin.

>>536264

The issue isn’t necessarily about fetus pain. Rather, I’m more concerned about when animation takes place (i.e. when does the soul become fused with a body). I’m fine with eating plants for the same reason that you guys are fine with eating animals: they don’t have a soul. But I do believe that animals possess a soul. I believe that animation takes place after the nervous system develops.

>>536248

Have you ever read the Old Testament? There are direct commands from Yahweh to wipe out entire populations. In Samuel 15, Yahweh orders the extirpation of innocent people. You may say that the Amalekites committed wicked acts, but what about the woman and children? Why kill the livestock as well? I’m not trying to be rude, but stories like this are why I despise OT.

>>536336

The wages of sin are death. Some just die sooner.

>>535637

>I have empathy towards people’s suffering

>misanthropy

>eugenics

>>536328

You have given a completely arbitrary definition. What you call "nervous system" is an arbitrary group of cells that is not special in any way. The arbitrary group of cells you label "nervous system" does not contain any soul, nor does it have a little sign that says "soul inside". The nervous system is a bunch of wires, no different from a computer or any other machine.

You could as well say that there is no soul until the person in question lfits a table while wearing a shirt.

>>536678

Try looking up the definition of misanthropy for once. It doesn’t merely imply a hatred for humanity; it can also mean a general dislike or distrust of humanity. It’s kind of like how xenophobic people aren’t actually afraid of foreigners.

>>536336

I'd rather take the command to wipe out a population from Yahweh than AIPAC.

Abortion is mass murder. Just for convenience rather than God's command. You're a hypocrite. You don't hate death you hate God.

>>536732

Try actually using words instead of just parroting them, you idiotic hypocrite.

>>536772

Fucking retarded double nigger. Just google the word misanthropy. I’ll even post a definition for your lobotimized ass: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/misanthropy

You know, there is nothing that pisses me off more than an ignorant fuck who thinks he knows what he’s talking about.

FUCK YOU AND GO CRAWL BACK UNDER YOUR BRIDGE

>>536747

Wow, check out this fucking idiot. Abortion would do wonders to stabilize the world’s population. It’s not just for mere convenient. Besides, my biggest concern in regards to reproductive rights is widespread access to birth control/sterilization. If more men just got the snip and if more woman had their tubes tied, then babies wouldn’t have to get aborted as much. I see abortion more as a last resort if the birth control doesn’t work for some reason. But a lot of you backwards fucks wouldn’t even allow birth control. So quit bitching about abortions, dumb fuck. People like you are one of the reasons why I’m a misanthrope. Enjoy supporting genocide, dick 😒

>>536721

>The arbitrary group of cells you label "nervous system" does not contain any soul, nor does it have a little sign that says "soul inside"

No. YOU don’t believe that animation takes place after the nervous system develops. There is clearly a mind/body connection, and when the nervous system is damaged, the person’s personality changes. What does that tell you?

>>537548

>Our population isn't the one that's exploding. The rest of the world is

And you think that’s not a problem!? When our resources are nearly depleted because you want people to have as many children as possible (muh fruitful and multiply), I’d love to hear you tell rational folks “we warned you.” But Jesus is coming back soon, so let’s not worry about this problem, right guys??

I’m not even going to waste my time on the rest of your comment; it reaches Duggar levels of stupidity, speaking on matters you know nothing about.

>>537604

>I’m not even going to waste my time on the rest of your comment; it reaches Duggar levels of stupidity, speaking on matters you know nothing about.

Of course, but you do I take it? The transhumanist misanthrope (code for I think that sounds better than "I have crushing social anxiety") who's going to export abortion to people who don't want it and save us all from the brown hordes with muh enlightened escapist edgelording.

Overpopulation isn't a western problem, we're going extinct. It's going to be the third worlders who overrun us that inherit resource shortage. You can't refute it so you just double down on your love of whores and baby murder.

We're fucked brah, the difference between you and I is I've admitted we have ourselves to blame for it and I've repented. You're too proud for that because without God all there is left to worship is yourself, and deep down you know you make a terrible God.

>>535616

>that pic

>showing legs

>that tattoo on hand

>that haircut

>laying on the floor next to a dog (equating yourself with a beast)

>treating the dog like it's your child

filthy moderns man

>>538249

To be honest, I just love a good debate

>>538412

She’s just showing affection towards her dog. What’s wrong with that? Can’t really comment on the rest of what you said; not really my concern

>>538484

>She’s just showing affection towards her dog

The problem is that she doesn't see the dog as an animal. Placing yourself on the level of the dog by laying down and playing with it in a seemingly innocent manner is wrong. You have to recognize your place as the dog's master. There are certain acceptable actions such as petting the dog. But laying down and hugging the dog like it's a child? Only in [current year], lad. Moderns don't know the difference between themselves and animals. Have some respect for yourself.

>>538506

>Placing yourself on the level of the dog by laying down and playing with it in a seemingly innocent manner is wrong

Who made you the arbiter of how people can show affection to their pets? There is nothing wrong with hugging your dog on the floor. Take your legalistic bullshit and

FUCK OFF

>>538514

Nobody made me the arbiter, it's just common sense to anyone without a fried brain. But go ahead and hump your dog for all I care.

>>538517

>Nobody made me the arbiter, it's just common sense

In other words, you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, and you have to appeal to a social norm that is subject to change. Good job.

>to anyone who doesn’t have a fried brain

You’re the one with a fried brain if you think that an appeal to the people is convincing. Please fuck off and keep your ignorant bullshit to yourself

>>536621

>If you're so into it, why don't you start with yourself?

Well, I abort my kids each time I masturbate by eating them 😂

On second thought, I’m beginning to think I have issues

>>538519

Why are you upset? Have you been engaging in some tongue action with your dogger? It was a social norm that stuck for a pretty long time, before society started seeing animals as equals to humans. Just because it changed doesn't mean it's a worthless social norm, lol.

>muh appeal to the people

Listen, if you don't want to discuss the point like a gentleman and actually engage, then don't bother. The fact remains that treating dogs like your own children goes hand-in-hand with moderns disliking children and having a misanthropic attitude towards life. But hey, keep on thinking it's a harmless little act without realizing the greater context.

>>535753

The funny this is that I can’t tell if you’re joking or now. I went to an episcopal church in the KC area, and the parish priest basically told me that there were no requirements to join. No catechisms, no classes, nothing. They have a catechism in the Common Book of Prayer, but they don’t require the parishioners to believe it. Not even the apostles creed was required, and they recite that every Sunday. Even though I liked the people, I stopped going because I saw no point in being an Episcopalian.

>>538523

>Why are you upset?

Because you’re bothering me with your unwanted, idiotic opinion. I’m the op, so I clearly don’t care about social norms. Why even bother raising that argument to me?

>The fact remains that treating dogs like your own children goes hand-in-hand with moderns disliking children and having a misanthropic attitude towards life

I’m sure it’s possible to view your pets like children, while simultaneously liking children

as well. You’re clearly raising a false dichotomy.

>you should be a gentleman about it, anon

Well, I’m not a fucking gentlemen. I’m a rabid pervert, so piss off.

>>538531

The whole point is that pets can NOT be and are NOT children, so they should not be treated the same way. Anyways, have a good night.