/vr/ - Retro Games

>>3417

>get some outside opinions besides my own, that sort of thing

If you post something other than one for ants, I'm sure /vr/ would be happy to give you feedback.

>>3425

I will once I have that one mostly finished. Big thing is that I don't want an unfinished one making the rounds before I have a completed one. I'm also pretty sure I'll need to make a second one at this point for the rest of the stuff I want to cover, but I'm not sure if I should make an entirely separate image (which would require posting both of them together in threads), or if I should just extend the canvas size and combine both into one (IE: the other one I'd be making would fit below the first, but still be on the same image).

>>3426

>Big thing is that I don't want an unfinished one making the rounds before I have a completed one

Hadn't considered that.

Carry on.

>>3437

My pleasure anon. I like sharing. I'll also make another music recommendation if you liked the game: A Melancholy Tribute to Ocarina of Time

>>3438

>A Melancholy Tribute to Ocarina of Time

That doesn't sound like a barrel of fun, but I'll give it a spin when I get a chance, anon.

>>3429

I think I got the first one done now (or at least managed to fit all seven game entries, the manga, and anime in with descriptions), but I'm running into a few issues with the second chart (for tips, tricks, information, and advice). I'm trying to keep it more to things that I wish I had known about when I was first playing the games (especially since in the case of 1 and 2, I didn't have a manual), and of note the series has had a lot of different stats and status effects over the years. While the status effect stuff isn't too annoying to make a section fore (most come and go but have the same names and cures), the actual stats for the characters have varied a good amount in both function and name over the years to the point I'm not real certain how to handle them without it seeming like a big clusterfuck of information. Even just trying to stick to the ones that are harder to know exactly what they are called or do at first glance, it still strikes me that it would come off as confusing to a new player, at least before they have actual experience with the games. To use a few examples:

>Response (RES) was essentially the agility or speed stat in the first game, used to govern both turn order and dodge chances, but was later split into Reflex (RFX) and Evasion (EVA) when RES was repurposed for Resilience; RFX was further renamed to Reaction (REA) in some games, and in 4 and 5 changes from being turn order to frequency of turns.

>Vitality (VIT) used to be the name for the physical defense stat, but was later renamed to Defense (DEF) when Vitality became its own entire meter in Wild Arms 2, 3, and ACF.

I'm also having an issue with trying to decide what to do to help break it up some so it's not just walls of text. With the first one I at least had cover art I could use for images, and while ideally I would have some screenshots of what I'm discussing in the text, I don't have the ability to take my own (my computer's a bit of a toaster when it comes to games, so I played 1 and 2 on my PSP and have physical copies of the PS2 games), and just trying to find some existing images online for use as examples, like the status screen for Wild Arms 2, is proving rather difficult.

Any ideas?

>>3458

>I'd want to know what it was re-purposed for

The Vitality meter is a restorative gauge in 2, 3, and ACF that holds a maximum of 100 points in it. Each point restores 1% health after battle (and it will try to fill to the top if possible, so if a character has 30% health left after a battle, the Vitality gauge would kick in and try to restore as much as possible, resulting in a maximum of 70 VIT points being consumed; if you don't have the required VIT, it consumes as much as it can and leaves the gauge at 0) and is refilled by resting at an inn or collecting crystals found in dungeons. Even with that meter one would still needs to play carefully since it can run out easily, and healing berries are not entirely easy to restock on, especially the better ones. 4 and 5 would make health restore to full after each and every battle (removing the need for a Vitality gauge), though due to the added aspect of positioning chances are the party is going to take more damage each fight if you're not careful, and MP does not restore at the end of battle nor through items.

>And while I don't find it too much information at the moment, I'm wondering how much more you could possibly trim it, because I'm conscious that I'm not seeing it on the infographic itself, along with everything else.

I'd like to have a number of smallish sections on it. Some of this I already have written up already, it's just that I'm having a few issues trying to figure out how to explain some of the stuff for a few sections without it coming off as confusing (especially since this is meant to help people understand stuff and not make it seem even more baffling).

>Tried searching with moonrunes?

That's a good idea, but I'd need to know what exactly they call their status screen in Japan. I suppose it could always be like Tales where even in Japan, they still tend to use the English names for the names of menus (Artes, Skills, etc), but it could also use the actual Japanese kanji or whatever.

>>3459

>dat wall of Vitality text

Fuck me - I can see why you shortened it to just "Vitality".

>runes

Not sure what they use in WA, but many games use 状態 or just ステータス.

Good hunting.

>>3461

>Fuck me - I can see why you shortened it to just "Vitality".

Thankfully WA2 and especially the games after it got a bit better about explaining certain in-game mechanics, and 4 and 5 actually have a cheap set of ingame books that you can buy and read whenever you want that explain things pretty adequately. And from what I recall the actual Vitality Gauge is given an ingame explanation when you first come across one of the crystals to restore in, or something like that. Main reason I was even bringing it up there is that the name for it was repurposed from the old Vitality physical defense stat. Not sure if it's just some form of inconsistency with the English translations (some stuff does carry over reasonably well between games, but it really depends on who did the localization and how much care they put in; Squaresoft and XSEED did a decent job with the games they handled, but then there's Agetec having handled ACF here, and I don't even know who exactly handled WA1 and 2 here apart from maybe Sony itself) or if the Japanese versions are also prone to changing their stat names around too. Unfortunately the wiki for the series isn't nearly as indepth as, say, Aselia wiki is for Tales.

>Not sure what they use in WA, but many games use 状態 or just ステータス.

Managed to find a Japanese screenshot of the status menu for WA2; that game uses the latter of those.

>Good hunting.

Thanks. I might just wind up having to put some concept art in for images, or something if I can't find what I'm looking for. Was also thinking about having a small section just comparing how the graphics of the series have evolved which I think might be of interest to some (for instance, Wild Arms 1 admittedly uses some pretty early 3D for combat, which might make it really ugly for some, or just add to the charm for others). Big thing though is that I need to finish with getting the text written up first. Just finished with Status Afflictions; series has about fifteen different one (not counting renamings), though thankfully not all of them are in every game.

>>3463

Concept art is nice. Maybe add some stuff from the manga, too.

I personally like the idea of the graphical timeline, as well.

>>3572

After playing it for a bit longer, and watching the vid of the second game, I'm still kind of blown away that this was situated where it was in the 32-bit era. I guess it's just a case of a dev knowing what they're doing and packing in as much as they possibly can.

It really stands in contrast to the hideous, jagged messes with slapped-on textures that makes up the bulk of the 3DS library that I can't stomach at all nearly twenty years on.

>>3737

Was always scared of giving this one a bash, to be honest. I love Kikuta as a composer, and was always worried as to whether or not he'd have directing skills to match.

At least tell me the soundtrack is amazing.

>>3738

Haven't heard a huge amount of actual music thus far, but what's there has been pretty decent, at least to me. Not a lot of actual "on-the-field" music (so to speak; the game doesn't exactly have an overworld) so far, but I think the silence works well for the nature of the game being set in a creepy monastery infested with horrible monsters. There's some rather long combat themes too, and with the slower nature of combat (between having to choose positioning to get in range of enemies and how exactly you want to even handle attacking, since weapons can break and even spells and items take time to execute) I think it works pretty well compared to simply having the track repeat every 45 seconds or so like some PS1 RPGs do for their battle themes.

Big issue I've seen people bring up for the game is the actual gameplay execution being somewhat flawed. Something about Sacnoth having wanted to make a survival horror game, only to be told it needed to be an RPG partway through development, and as such has elements of both, but suffers some from lack of polish (I've heard Shadow Hearts has a more polished blend of dark story/atmosphere and more solid JRPG combat, the latter being even further refined in the sequels; haven't played that yet though, but it's what I plan to play after Koudelka). Could have heard wrong though, I suppose. I have also heard in the past that the actual writing for the story and characters are pretty good, but again, I'm still pretty early in the game.

So far I'm liking it, but that might be prone to change the further I get.

>>3740

Okay, I am really loving just how creepy this game is. Managed to get through up to what I assume is the main boss in the dungeon section (or at least the one where beating it unlocks a full-healing save point). That scene in the bedroom or whatever down there where Koudelka allows herself to be possessed by the spirits so they can speak through her and be able to know what happened was actually pretty disturbing thanks to the voice acting actually being pretty good; otherwise it might have just come off as hammy.

Loving the monster designs down there too. Admittedly I could be wrong with these descriptions, since the graphics aren't exactly the best, but still.

>Armless decapitated zombies.

>Crawling severed arms.

>Winged heads.

>Giant rat… thing, with what appears to be the lower torso of a person.

>One armed zombies that I assume the arms were sliced off of.

>Skeletons that were apparently kneecapped and walk on the broken knee, dragging their lower legs behind them.

>Zombies with all swords of blades embedded in them; no apparent head, missing the upper part of one arm, with the wrist and hand still bound to the other, as one might expect of what was once a prisoner.

Some bad shit went down there.

Also got about as far as I can with those Wild Arms charts if that one guy's still interested in giving them a look. Unfortunately I don't think I can get the second one to not look like a wall of text without cutting information I find important. If he's still around, I can post them later today.

>>3746

I'd love to take a look at the progress you've made on WA. Granted, I haven't played them, so I'd just be advising you on what looks good; as opposed to what you'd need to cut or not.

>>3752

Crest Sorceress is the term WA1, 2, and ACF use for their mages (who in those games are always female; Tim in WA2 uses Guardian Lores as a similar but different magic system), since their magic is derived from a particular crest inscribed to a particular item called a Crest Graph. They can set any spell they want to them when in towns (meaning that barring hi-magic which is only learned about midgame in WA1 and 2, you don't have a required level to learn anything), but can only learn as many spells as the crest graphs they carry. Crest Sorceresses also aren't exactly religious, though Cecilia is studying how to better use her magic at an abbey and has a connection to the Guardians of Filgaia.

The other games don't use that term since they don't use crests. Wild Arms 3 and 5 allow all characters to cast spells, and Arnaud, the main spellcaster in WA4, neither uses crests to store magic, nor is a sorceress since he isn't female (XSEED localized his class type as Formula User).

Anyhow, I'll give those suggestions a bit more thought later. Heading to bed right now. Thanks for giving that a look over though, maybe you could provide some advice on the second when you have time.

I recently bought Chessmaster and Tetris DX for the Gameboy Color, but now I'm digging around for my GBA/GBC so I can actually play them.

>>3753

Given that I'm not knee-deep in any of the games, I can't really make any comments on the usefulness or otherwise of much of the second page.

One thing I would like to know, though, is how the combat plays out. I rarely put any time into JRPGs any more because I can no longer stand turns-based combat. Reasonably quick loading times and random battles that don't occur every three steps are something that can convince me to give a game a go: how does the series hold up in that respect? Or to put it another way: if you don't really like JRPGs, is it distinct enough (in play and aesthetics) to make it worth your time?

(Maybe you could bone the FAQ section on Alter Code f for an answer on this one?)

Actually really coming to love Koudelka. While the combat itself is certainly not where the game shines, the way the cast and story is handling, aided by some really good voicing and what seems to be a very solid translation is making for a very neat, dark, and strange game to experience. The atmosphere is also great. Shame it apparently got panned pretty hard from what I've heard, and Kikuta left Sacnoth afterward (according to wikipedia, the next game he actually worked on was the soundtrack for "Sora no Iro, Mizu no Iro," an eroge).

>>3760

That's actually a really good point. I'll make a note to see what I can do about adding a bit to the FAQ covering that, and nixing the WA1 vs ACF section of the FAQ.

>>3761

Okay, only real complaint thus far has to be the limited inventory, especially since there's plot items that need to be picked up, and some of them (like the stained glass shards) can take up a lot of room. Would have been nice if key items were handled separately from the main inventory being limited. At least letters and such are stored separately.

Also surprised at how fast I've been leveling up the characters, at least at this point in the game. The game started out almost rather slow with the experience enemies give being rather low, but now it's great leveling up maybe every 5-6 battles or so. Especially since leveling up fully restores the party.

>>3772

Unfortunately Square-Enix hasn't seemed to know what to do with the Mana games. While I can't exactly fault them for wanting to experiment a bit, I do know most after Legend of Mana (and Sword of Mana, depending on who you ask) aren't considered nearly as good as the original real time-JRPG style games comprising the earlier part of the series. Unfortunately, I kind of think Kingdoms Hearts wound up stealing that real time combat JRPG niche from the Mana series, and thus Square-Enix has been at a bit of a loss as to how to handle the series, if they even want to keep it going (considering they're pretty much done with stuff like Chrono and Front Mission at this point; meanwhile SaGa's surprisingly getting new game for the Vita in Japan so it's still keeping on in a way, though I doubt the west will see it since we got neither the PSN versions of SaGa Frontier 1 and 2 or the DS remakes of SaGa 2 and 3). Just my take on it though.

>There's a reason /vr/ is my homeboard.

I've been stuck having to mostly use /v/ (especially since /svidya/ is pretty much dead), but I do make at least a few checks here a day, especially when it comes to discussion of older games that /v/'s not quite as inclined to bother with discussing. Wish the board had a bit more traffic though, but as far as I understand it, unlike /v/ and /pol/, half/vr/ hasn't had a huge reason to migrate over, or is too nervous about potentially fracturing their community, and so they put up with staying on halfchan. And I'm not even entirely sure that if they did come here, they wouldn't just make their on /vr/ type board with the same rules as they're used to, considering the board here officially allows discussion of early sixth gen.

Also wish /jrpg/ was more active here, but the board's dead to the point I'm not even sure if making a thread, let alone posts there would be worth it at this point if no one's going to respond for months.

>>3779

Have fun with Goemon. I really need to give that series a go sometime. How many games did the west get out here in it anyhow, three?

I know one of the SNES ones is on the VC on the Wii and I assume emulates well enough (though I suppose I could be wrong, but what about the N64 ones?

>>3780

From memory the ones released outside of Japan were the SNES one, the two N64 ones, and the GB one (which was probably the only middling Goemon game I've ever played).

Not sure how well they emulate on the VC, or if the N64 revs got released, but you really ought to play all three. The first N64 was very different from the rest of the series, but still a really solid 3D-platformer. It's quite bare, being a relatively early example of the genre, but it still maintains the element of exploration that's really necessary for an adventure; and I reckon it's quite a rarity in that it wasn't just a collect 'em up. It was also cozy as fug - embed related.

If you're going to emulate anyway, pick up the second SNES outing - definitely the highlight of the series.

>>3781

Cool. I'll see what I can do about getting around to them (though it's probably going to be easier for me to get to the SNES one first, since to my knowledge N64 emulation in general is still a bit iffy).

>If you're going to emulate anyway, pick up the second SNES outing - definitely the highlight of the series.

You mean that one Aeon Genesis has as an ongoing translation, Ganbare Goemon 2? Sounds like the need to translate various graphics has held that one up from being completely finished.

>>3782

You don't need a translation for Goemon games, anon. You're going to be missing out on a lot of amusing dialogue and a fucktonne of cultural asides, but it's still at its core a platform game.

The towns and the overhead bits that connect towns to platforming sections are neat, but the game really shines in the levels themselves. Everything else is window dressing. Great window dressing that creates a really unique world and it was surprising other platformers didn't adopt it, yes; but still window dressing.

>>3785

I'll give it a look over the weekend, brother.

>it sounds like there's a lot of enjoyable little touches that will be missed without that.

With Goemon, it's something that not even a translation can fix. Take the Tosa region from the first game: one of the enemies is modeled on their historical fighting dogs (which are still kind of a thing in modern day Kochi); there are statues of Ryoma Sakamoto in the background.

That's one region, one enemy and one background - and what I could think of off the top of my head. My weebfu is nowhere near good enough to spot everything, but I'd wager that you could fill an entire one of your stylish infographs with every stage in that game alone.

>Especially when the issue isn't necessarily translation or code related, but a graphical one.

From what I remember, they had translated most of it successfully. But, again, IIRC, it was a case of taking all that text and not just slotting it where it says "text goes here", but actually redoing a whole bunch of graphics that contained text and making them English; which seems like a hell of a lot of work.

I'm not going to comment on whether they're lazy cunts because, fuck it, I'm not putting my hand up for the job, either.

>>3785

Decided to stop being a lazy fuck and checked it out: it sounds pretty solid, anon (grammatical mistakes aside).

I'm going to check out WA2 as soon as possible, because it sounds the most rad from your write-ups.

More Goemon music. Because. I'd actually recommend playing the SNES versions in order and skipping 3 unless you feel you absolutely have to play it: it's not a patch on 2 or even 4. But this track is what "Konami" sounds like in my head.

Boy, does Patrick's Diary add to the fucked up state of the monastery in Koudelka. As if the past there wasn't bad enough (and it was pretty damn horrific from 1672 up through 1716, according to a Guard's Diary found in a locked chest), he went and essentially put the finishing touches on what led to it being a monster-infested shithole.

>>3795

I'd still recommend starting with the first game. It's a real classic and helps ease you into the basics of the series some (and starting with one of the "no MP, only Force" entries like 2 or 3 might leave you disappointed that 1, 4, and 5 don't operate that same way). It's also not all that long either; think my first playthrough was maybe 30 hours or so. Wild Arms 2 and especially 3 were longer. I suppose you could always play the ACF version of it though (but you might be liable to get caught up on the ACF side of the "WA1 vs ACF" debate; I'm rather neutral on it since I really enjoyed both versions and consider them about equal, but some people are pretty adamant about the original being superior and vehemently dislike the remake). Just my thoughts though. Both Wild Arms 1 and 2 have US PSN versions which every so often get into flash sales at $1 each, but you could probably just emulate them (and both work fine as eboots on a PSP). Or hell, you could track down actual copies. Where I live neither game is rare (or if it is, desire for actual copies is generally low at this point, though Wild Arms hasn't been all that popular to begin with from what I've known of its history) and prices aren't too bad, especially for a pair of JRPGs that never secured a Greatest Hits print, but they're not exactly common either. Personally been looking around for a copy of WA2 that's actually in good condition, as most here are beat up.

Also, your embed isn't working, at least on my end.

>>3794

>I'm not going to comment on whether they're lazy cunts because, fuck it, I'm not putting my hand up for the job, either.

I'm not calling them lazy either. Fan translation is a lot of hard work and the most they likely see from it in terms of compensation is praise from people that play it when finally out and possibly donations. It's pretty amazing they have, what, over 70 finished ones now?

If I'm going to complain a bit about a fan-translator, it's probably Cless of Phantasian Productions. Granted, he does good work, but fan translating one game, from start to actual patch release, should NOT take you twelve years. Especially if another group managed to do their own translation in about five months time (and have it be pretty decent quality), and finish years before. I worry that his fan translation for Tales of Destiny 2 will take another decade like Phantasia.

>>3797

>I'd still recommend starting with the first game.

I'll take your advice first chance I get, WAbro.

>translating one game, from start to actual patch release, should NOT take you twelve years

Does he legit still post about it being an ongoing thing? After that long, it's just safer to assume they gave up. But I'm also a pessimistic fuck and usually bail if there's no update after six months.

>"this is what Konami sounds like in my mind"

>embed is broken

Modern Konami, then.

Hope this one works.

>>3799

He actually released his Phantasia PS1 patch on New Years Eve 2012. Big thing though is that he hasn't posted anything since posting a bug fix version for his Phantasia patch. I know Absolute Zero's been in contact with him though; while Absolute Zero's been working on fan translating Tales of Phantasia: Narikiri Dungeon X themselves, they've mentioned wanting to consult with Cless about the actual translation script to try to make the best translation they can (while their original PS1 translation script isn't bad, apparently Cless' feels more polished, the way a localization would) while still trying to get it released in a somewhat timely manner (to the point of it being maybe 2-3 years expected time; their Phantasia PS1 patch being an oddity that only took from August 2007 until December 2007).

Nice thing about Absolute Zero is that they have a decent track record of not taking too horribly long to fan translate, post updates on what they're working on every few months (NDX and Tales of Destiny: Director's Cut at the moment), sometimes with actual video clips of it in motion, and have a programmer that seems to know what he's doing in testing and creating the patches.

Yeah, that embed works.

let's bump this nigger up.