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<BOARD RULES>
[ /agdg/ | Vidya Porn | Hentai Games | Retro Vidya | Contact ]

File: 9dc9c4a9ce594f9⋯.png (15.25 KB, 256x224, 8:7, Ganbare Goemon Kirakira Do….png)

File: 5431b59b2b758c5⋯.png (421.8 KB, 540x1226, 270:613, ClipboardImage.png)

c94372  No.16821353[Last 50 Posts]

With not only increasing incidents of tampering with translations in fan projects, but now harassing everyone who doesn't, it's time to tackle this situation heads on.

This thread's goals:

1- Produce Japanese scripts from as much games as possible. This task will require people fluent in Japanese who can write down 500+ kanji from a low res image, as text data.

2- Produce English scripts from those game's official translations, or unofficial translations.

3- COMPARE the two, and catalog as much flawed changes changes as possible.

What constitutes flawed changes:

> Mistranslations - Miss the point of the original by 70%. For the sake of efficiency, please don't nitpick on minor stuff like honorifics, SOV order, and stuff that can be reasonably attributed to language changes. There's a TON of games to parse, and little time. For missing cultural references or puns or a newly inserted English cultural reference, do make a note.

> Clear deviations / omissions motivated by political correctness or ideologies

> Translator self-inserts / breaking the fourth wall / political rants any way, that were not in the original

4- EVALUATE which games are high priority for a partial retranslation, or full retranslation.

5- RETRANSLATE the flawed lines. Text length limitations will have to be considered, but in case it can't be inserted back in the game, or even if it can, an unabridged transcript of the full translation, if made, will be kept for the next steps.

6- Get second opinions by other Japanese fluent speakers. Try not to exceed 10 posts about the same line. You're not an easily distracted goldfish. We need to get things done. REVISE the new translation. What doesn't constitute flaws, as Tom (RIP) and his work showed you could get a "non-dry" AND "100% accurate" translation:

> Puns - if they're trying to achieve a similar effect as the original

> Minor Flavor, as long as the whole of the Japanese sentence meaning is kept intact AND it doesn't become hard to parse or enjoy like modern Dragon Quest localizations

7- INSERT the translation into the games proper, using the English versions as a base. Catalog negative alterations to graphics and game balance, and revert those as well.

Alterations will be considered negative if they have financial motivations (make game longer) or to remove something out of ideological motivations. Edits to remove Japanese text to the point it's detrimental to the presentation are less important but can be handled later.

____________________________
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c94372  No.16821355

>>16821353

The situation so far:

You can't speak out anywhere about any game changes that butcher characterization, or miss the point of the scenes, or change stuff for the sake of changing it.

Most places online will actively discourage this:

- KotakuInAction is at this point controlled opposition. It chases away anyone but those who support a very specific brand of politics, which is now its main focus. Gaming, cataloging Kotaku shenanigans, and instances of game censorship are now left long behind. If they're ever covered, it's primarily for the drama, and only if they have had a news article written by an approved personality, and to provide SJWs with a convenient scarecrow that "only GG types care anymore about this stuff" - it's telling that Fire Emblem Fates submissions are now rejected en masse because it's no longer relevant.

- Mainstream forums are conditioned to reject any form of discussion about this, and dismiss it as irrelevant weaboo ravings. The only way this discussion is allowed is when it promotes leftist ideology, as seen with the Tomodachi Collection outrage that accused Nintendo of America of censoring LGBT content that WASN'T EVEN IN THE GAME, to force them to create and add it.

- halfchan is modded by tranny jannies who SUPPORT the censorship and will stifle any conversation about it.

- TCRF and HG101 are often cited as "authority sources" on the matter of regional changes. The former as "a wiki anyone can edit." The reality of the matter is that they ban any discussion of "nuances lost in translation" like Henry, the black mage in Fire Emblem Awakening, being completely rewritten, or the "…" changes. They have a few token articles from SNES games which document barely some changes, but they COMPLETELY DENY any of it took place in the modern era. Worse, they'll run detailed comparisons between the more censored American versions and the less censored Euro versions, and always conclude the Euro one is "literally translated", "dry", while the American one is "superior". Even if the game is European-made or Japanese-made, the American localization is treated as the original script that other translations deviated from. HG101 even went as far as launch the witchhunt against Tom over his correct localization of Ganbare Goemon 3.

tl;dr: There's no uncompromised source that details regional changes online. People who are mislead into contributing to TCRF thinking it's that, will see their documentation work edited out of existence weeks later.

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c94372  No.16821357

>>16821355

Romhacking.net (RHDN) was set to be the catalogue of all translation work done online. However a few incidents gradually eroded that, until the current situation:

- Some of the admins and mods have some pretty massive skeletons in their closets. They do some coverup, and give mod positions to some diversity hires and leftists as lip service. The latter end up disruptive and threaten to go public with some of the stuff, so they get gradually more and more control over the website.

A free speech absolutist makes "spoof" romhacks with swatsikas and highly offensive material.

Argues that the admin's own tinfoil mario romhack is still on the site.

If rules apply to his hacks, they do to the older, very first hacks on site.

His hacks stay.

Eventually, he spams too many offensive, 2kb low effort romhacks.

They change the rules.

"Low effort rule" is added to filter those out.

He says if this rule applies to his hacks, it applies to others.

His hacks are removed.

Other valuable hacks like FDS conversions, and mapper conversion, are removed.

Tries to go after valuable hacks like FDS translations, Cursor bug romhacks in FF3, SNES palette changes.

They stay, because other hacks "depend" on them, to the joy of almost everyone.

He founds baddesthacks (BHDN)

Spams a few hundred of his hacks there (nazi period blood islamic futanari princess peach with kkk hat, things like that…)

No traffic, gets bored

Gets some new friends, they make a technically high effort romhack.

They are allowed to submit those again to RHDN.

Meanwhile…

Some tumblristas brave out of their echochamber to the wider GAMURRR community

Contribute "retranslation patches" for the Zelda series that "undo NoA censorship"

RHDN mods are ectastic

Some on forums point out these are only gender neutral hacks, and that JP versions clearly have a male Link

REEEEEEE ensues, RHDN mods close blasphemous forum topics

Falseflagger (from BHDN?) posts LGBT Pacman, eventually found out, banned but they kept his hack (lmao)

"Zelda retranslator" notices some RPG translations by rightwingers (Wildbill sneaking Irak War references in FEDA & Daikaiju Monogatari 2) + BHDN hacks

Throw a massive fit and ask for their removal

When RHDN mods show they can't actually override submission teams, tumblrista runs out of patience

Tumblrista goes to Kotaku immediately for a story about RHDN and how it needs to be cancelled

Kotaku article of course "reaches to Nintendo for comment"

Admin bans Tumblrista personally, RHDN mods pissed but can't defend someone who just tried the nuclear option on them

Admin introduces "no politics" rule, both BHDN and Gender Neutral hacks go, but not LGBT Pacman nor JRPG translations.

Dynamic-Designs stops posting on RHDN due to hostility, but others submits their hacks

Tumblr refugees go back to Tumblr and TCRF (they have a forum) to continue their romhacks

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c94372  No.16821358

>>16821357

Two years later…

Undubs (primarily requested by those displeased with Atlus games) are successfully banned wholesale

Any hack for a game with scene drama won't be allowed

Unauthorized repro sellers who ask for a translation romhack to be purged to remove competition, is obeyed

A tumblr refugee submits an LGBT hack with some trans activism slogans

Submission member uses the "no politics" rule

Tumblr refugee sics Kotaku again on RHDN, some new woke translators leave for tumblr in protest

Submission guy is sacked by the admin to save face, rule undone

In a cruel twist of irony, it's the one who was doing the majority of playable Bowsette/Zelda/Roll/etc romhacks on the site

RHDN mods CELEBRATE and immediately submit those gender neutral romhacks, and contacting tumblr expats to come back

Game "relocalizations" start popping en masse.

They aren't even based on the original text.

They were called rewrites before (FuSoYa's Secret of Mana, Mother 3 rewrite) but they're pushed to replace retranslations

People behind older popular retranslations are made to "apologize" for making mistakes and producing dry scripts, like Sky Render's Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger

Some SNES ports of more accurate translations, like Tim Slattery's FF6/Chrono Trigger, were reported and taken down, while the other way ("with added jokes, so they stay") were allowed

Some restoration efforts of heavily censored games, like Working Designs games, were successfully sabotaged by bullying the creator onsite and offsite and trying to delete his contributions everywhere else and apologize for "tampering with a fan beloved localization". Ultimately, he never got around to fix the translation, but only the balance and graphical changes, and he got flamed for that much. To this day, they're never sumbitted formally on RHDN.

Prominent ResetEra members start asking to interfere not only with official localizations, but fan projects. They come and ask for the position of "localization editors". cj_iwakura eventually infiltrated some projects such as Sakura Taisen. They tried unsucessfully to infiltrate Great Ace Attorney translations to "tone down language and problematic content" but never got their way, for now.

Game fan "translations", not relocalizations, start getting infected. A Fire Emblem Fates retranslation project was infiltrated, and successfully cancelled, for promoting "GG" and various rifts about whether some content should be restored at all. Fortunately for that, an alternative partial patch eventually happened. Ni No Kuni DS has the entirety of the second town rewritten to remove "fat shaming" about the queen and "sexist remarks" about female NPCs. Lunar Magical School on Saturn has the lead translator brag how she is removing pedophilia from the game - this refers to different-than-modern age of consent (15) between two young lovers, and some major story beats.

Fast forward to 2020…

Tom translates the highly problematic Ganbare Goemon series, which is so full of offensive jokes that the mere "tranny" somewhere is the least of your troubles. Which HG101 knew, because the NPC is in the fourth chapter, and he certainly saw other offensive content but wants to save it for when the translator is beaten into submission to tell him "not enough!". A week-long milkshake duck festival for DiscoAlucard's personal enjoyment, if you want.

You may know how things turned out, but most translators are either silent, or horrified (even cj_iwakura thinks this crossed a line), and only the Saturn Lunar Magical School developer supports the witchhunt.

But what about RHDN?

One of the mods opened a topic asking for the translation to be PURGED, to force the team to create another one.

Over the accurate translation of the word "newhalf" to the equivalent in tone "tranny".

(anyone who says "shemale" and "newhalf" and "trans" is more correct, drop your charade. It's very clear from HG101's "corrections" the whole line is what's problematic, "should i tell my boyfriend?")

This means that mildly offensive games are off limits.

With most posters expressing disgust and defending the word choice, another mod intervened.

"We don't ban over ONE SLUR. He will eventually fix it, so this is uncalled for."

The topic was locked a few posts later as it was too unfavorable, not without translators expressing support.

What this means in practice: RHDN isn't safe anymore to host future patches, or older patches with similar "problems" in their games.

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c94372  No.16821384

>>16821358

Let's share here methods to modify games, extract and reinsert text, as well as text dumps for as much possible games, from retro to current.

The focus will be on normie console games. VNs and pornographic games have a mature translation / decensoring scene. Please let us have our own vidya retranslated too. Please. Please.

Suggested priority games:

A- FIXING OFFICIAL LOCALIZATIONS

Working Designs - entire library, Lunar 1+2 as they're more well known

Zelda series - the most hard hit are Breath of the Wild (removed Link's personal agency) and A Link To The Past (heavy rewrites)

Jaleco localizations - all of them are heavily tampered with. The Ignition Factor has the ending rewritten to insults to the developer team and accusing them of ripping off a movie that came after the game's JP version, Rising Beat Shura is infamous, Totally Rad is more well known and fixed already

B- FIXING FAN TRANSLATIONS

Dynamic Designs - Anything edited by Wildbill is systematically tampered with for the lulz or dumb self inserts.

Aeon Genesis - first out of incompetence then out of political leanings, many of his scripts have dubious edits. Needs a deep dive into both scripts.

C- MAKING NEW FAN TRANSLATIONS FOR GAMES NO ONE WILL TOUCH

It's obvious some games are too risky now for known translators to handle, because of their "problematic content". Some suggestions:

Otaku no Seiza

Far East of Eden: Manjimaru / Kabuki / The Fourth Apocalypse

Ganbare Goemon 4 / Uchuu Kaizoku / Shinsedai / DS / PS2

Tokimeki Memorial

Other games are welcome too, even if they're not problematic in nature.

Suggestions welcome.

Once we have enough of these, let's move on to the technical specifics.

I'll document my process for everyone to try out on their own eventually.

Talents needed:

Webhosting to host game scripts

Alternative place to gather and coordinate

Ideas about which platform to contribute on (anything vulnerable, risky, or subject to pozz like the Covenant's Code of Conduct, like github, is out of the question - we're not doing piracy, but our enemies can use a mere 1Kb text file copied from the game to claim we're doing copyright infringement)

People who know Japanese

People who aren't afraid to learn new talents like asm and minor romhacking

Let's make this something grand, /v/.

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9bec88  No.16821388

>8/v/ translation group

Good luck with that.

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610f94  No.16821395

>>16821384

From my experience with romhacking metroid, HxD is the best hex editor out there. As far as knowing which memory addresses? I guess you could run a file diff on EN vs JP versions and patches.

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c94372  No.16821400

>>16821395

Does HxD include table support?

Most games have custom encodings.

My process relies on Bongo's WindHex32 for Japanese text extraction, but a more modern alternative will be welcome.

> guess you could run a file diff on EN vs JP versions and patches.

Useful only to know where the text and font and changed graphics are stored, and not so useful when the project uses a disassembly or moves data around heavily (these aren't as frequent in fan projects, but the majority in localized releases)

As for how to compare JP and EN text?

You'll need to extract two times, as the encoding is often redone completely.

If you use the pointer table to do so, you can get a neatly organized csv with each JP line and its equivalent EN line.

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e75e3d  No.16821411

I wholeheartedly support this. I'd really love to do anything I could to support this project, but with minuscule knowledge of the Japanese language and even less experience with the technical side of things, I'm stuck doing the same thing as most other people here, and that's wishing you the best of luck while I pray for your success.

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578cd5  No.16821417

IIRC retroarch has a translate option for mostly snes games tried PSX and it doesn't work as for other games theres a thing called ztranslate but the translation quality can be quite shoddy at times

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441154  No.16821421

>>16821355

>- KotakuInAction is at this point controlled opposition.

That's gonna be a nah dawg.

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28368a  No.16821423

>>16821421

KiA was compromised over a year where the mods basically trashed the board, and caused most of the users to leave and create a second KiA board.

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a2d0e6  No.16821430

>>16821411

I appreciate your sentiment. That minuscule knowledge can help. Any help is good for this, and anyone can help in some way or another, even pointing out cases of censorship.

>>16821417

I know about that, but it's unreliable for the following reasons:

- Google machine translation from JP: Google struggles with kana only text, parsing sentences to individual grammatical particles, relies too much on AI. If you change punctuation or line breaks, the translation is completely different

- Retroarch's OCR implementation: Not trained on low res Japanese fonts, not told where the text usually shows onscreen so it tries to interpret background art for fences as zeroes.

- Always online, fails eventually when too much requests to Google API are sent

- Choosing Google translation over Jisho's dictionary definitions

There are saner approaches but they were all dropped or not retained, like

- Intercepting text calls (Wunderbar)

- Detecting Shift-JIS text and Windows API for fonts (only applicable to Windows 95 Visual Novels, not console ports)

- Comparing the screen against an internal database of game fonts, to immediately recognize the fonts. Much less processor intensive than passing the whole screenshot through OpenCV and can run all the time (FCBR, dropped because author became an indie dev)

Because it's machine translated alone, it's worthless as a substitute.

If it eventually includes dictionary definitions, it will be at best a language learning tool, or accessibility assistant.

Too early to call it a victory already.

>>16821421 >>16821423

They won't solve game translation censorship for us.

I should better begin with something to show how it's done, as the thread is so far masturbatory in nature. I'll look for a smaller scope game to explain the process. In the meanwhile, feel free to suggest titles for us to study together.

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b71c7d  No.16821442

So who here can read and speak jap?

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061448  No.16821478

>>16821442

"Not I", said the anon.

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cf48cb  No.16821497

File: 367f870e0ec453b⋯.jpg (17.18 KB, 272x153, 16:9, Guts thumbs up.jpg)

Excellent thread

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578cd5  No.16821516

>>16821478

the anons in that japanese general?

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b878be  No.16821519

>>16821424

oh fuck off newfag, this shit is useful

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00edc5  No.16821522

>>16821516

So nice of those anons to agree to look over translations and use their spare time crosschecking others.

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b895ec  No.16821530

File: 7cf9d4876c73e2c⋯.png (332.85 KB, 800x800, 1:1, jhkhkkjkj.png)

I'd really love to help with this but sadly I only have extremely rudimentary knowledge of Japanese (slightly more than the average animu watching faggot but still not enough to be useful). I am a writer though so I could at least attempt to parse translations into proper sensible English that still conveys the meaning of what is being said.

Would you be interested in localizing game dialogue or not?

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47e725  No.16821532

>>16821519

Move your ass to 4um's /vg/.

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ccd85e  No.16821582

File: 6c2f849755a8034⋯.png (163.51 KB, 429x372, 143:124, youcantlearn.png)

>>16821530

Mark, please.

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9bec88  No.16821584

>>16821530

I don't even want to read your posts, Lipfag, let alone a game script you had control over.

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22510c  No.16821586

>been wanting an english patch of the original Baroque since I found out about it

If we can get a significant enough group that's serious about this I would be willing to go all-in on learning the actual hex editing side of things provided I have a non-cucked japanese reader translating. The fucking cool as fuck sprite work and the overall concept of the game is enough motivation for me to be able to want to play it and understand it enough to complete it.

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c689b1  No.16821638

>>16821355

>- halfchan is modded by tranny jannies who SUPPORT the censorship and will stifle any conversation about it.

I want to interject for a moment, the two last threads about the Tom issue on half /v/ weren't deleted and lasted both until they reached bump limit.

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b895ec  No.16821644

>>16821584

Think you got me confused for someone else.

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07a987  No.16821791

File: 84468c15e16d39a⋯.jpg (7.28 KB, 241x255, 241:255, check em swastika.jpg)

>>16821388

>ID & digits

fucking heiled

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b87e71  No.16821917

File: 3dd280ff6ff1b4c⋯.jpg (765.81 KB, 1920x1200, 8:5, KanjiHell.jpg)

>>16821353

I'm a fairly 出来る anon. Been studying on my own for several years and I routinely play games in nip. I have zero experience romahcking and I think I've hex edited something once. This is the kind of thing I would like to build a career out of eventually but in the meantime I wouldn't mind contributing to this project for the experience and to build up a portfolio.

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e75e3d  No.16821929

>>16821917

>build a career out of eventually

This is the problem I've been thinking of, even if I did learn Japanese properly. Any game translations would be limited to romhacks and fan translations only. I mean think about it, what good would it even do to get on board with a western publisher? It doesn't matter how faithfully you want to do things, you'll be ordered to censor and change.

The professional route is closed to us, the only viable option is working in the shadows, for free, with nothing more than the table scraps of appreciation that fans give while SJWs screech and kvetch to get you shut down no matter what it takes.

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b87e71  No.16821935

File: f05e97325c19e01⋯.jpg (316.11 KB, 1000x991, 1000:991, Translation.jpg)

>>16821929

I don't disagree as far as working for any of the existing translation companies. That said, didn't that translator who came under attack have his own patreon for doing fan translations? I figure that at least is attainable. I also imagine it would be theoretically possible to start one's own translation studio and work with smaller devs; probably a bit optimistic, but as a NEET at least it gives me something to work toward.

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52b93c  No.16821938

>>16821638

You have to go back.

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e75e3d  No.16821939

>>16821935

>have his own patreon for doing fan translations? I figure that at least is attainable

And how long do YOU think you'll be allowed to keep your patreon after you accurately and unapologetically translate something like "tranny"? The enemy controls the flow of funds, and makes it very difficult to attain any support in terms of payment, hosting, and communication. I'm not saying it's impossible, but being realistic about a project that involves being a bunch of naughty, misbehaving goyim.

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8c5ca8  No.16821944

>>16821939

>And how long do YOU think you'll be allowed to keep your patreon after you accurately and unapologetically translate something like "tranny"? The enemy controls the flow of funds

You never know until you try. Kvetching mob is one thing, and "reasonable" business owners is another thing, it will be questionable practice to cut someone off for an accurate translation. And even if that happens, you can sue and I bet the chances of winning would be pretty good.

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dda0cd  No.16821946

>>16821939

Dick Masterson made his own patreon. https://newproject2.com/

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b87e71  No.16821948

>>16821939

I get what you're saying. I realize that companies like that are already on the "right side of history" and all that, but they lag behind the even crazier parts of their faction. I don't think Patreon itself or similar are quite at the point where you would get removed for accurately translating an unPC word, but I could be wrong. There are also several alternatives that exist even now, so I think it's still possible. Heck, even 8kun still exists, and I don't think an accurate translation project would be nearly as controversial.

In the long run, I fully expect to be forced out of society entirely for my views or outright killed, but even now I think I have some time before then and Japanese happens to be one of my only skills, so I might as well try and put it to use.

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02bfd0  No.16821952

A good starting point would probably be to not just find anons with moon knowledge to translate, but also to find/create dumps of Japanese game scripts for people to work with (as well as English ones for the the sake of comparison). Not every game stores its text scripts the same though. 46 Okumen have an article how they wound up having to get to the script for E.V.O. (on the PC-98), but their site's still down due to lack of bandwidth, and no one did an archive.ph of it. Wayback machine has it, but it's missing the article specific images for some fucking reason. If the site comes back up, I'll archive and screencap it.

>>16821929

It's not only that. The translator themselves can do a perfectly adequate job, only for the script editor to decide what's acceptable, what memes to insert, how to make it "theirs" and leave their mark, etc.

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b87e71  No.16821967

>>16821957

Oh lol, I'm actually just arguing with niggerpill, aren't I. Get fucked.

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dda0cd  No.16821990

File: c627c156975ce6d⋯.png (563.64 KB, 2100x1026, 350:171, anon_checkmate_intellectua….png)

>>16821967

> We may ad well just accept death.

Livestream it fuck.

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f0df0e  No.16822103

>platform issues

Gitgud seems to have pretty much everything covered functionally. For a pretty frontend, check out Neocities (their TOS says it's your own fault if you're offended and they don't care). For money, use NewProject2 (don't expect to get any money).

>talent issues

I might pass JLPT5, and know a basic bitch amount of programming theory from game jam attempts. I'm really interested in learning ASM or C but it seems that every internet tutorial for ASM is based around already being good at higher level languages.

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60da85  No.16822195

You know, sometimes English translations are so off-base from the original that I wish that either:

-The US had gone ahead and enacted "Operation Downfall" so that most Japanese would speak English as a second language to begin with; or

-The timeline in which Japan invaded the western US in "The Man in the High Castle" actually happened

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9a5ae5  No.16822216

File: f463f53b76fc11a⋯.png (84.11 KB, 1055x638, 1055:638, Screenshot_2020-01-29_00-0….png)

>>16822103

>Gitgud

I'll go one further and say any project should be using VCS to do it. e.g.

https://github.com/wchristian/kc-vita-translation

Putting the CoC garbage aside, this gives a way to track the entire history of the project. Ideally it also automates the "patching" side in a way that not only can it be done by anyone, but can be improved and contributed by anyone.

This is meaningless however unless there is ample technical capability for a given game to mod it, and also the translators are needed. Games usually require a ton more work than a typical manga for example.

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ba6504  No.16822218

File: 1237d0f3ca5e543⋯.jpg (151.44 KB, 1366x768, 683:384, Lolo.jpg)

I fucking love your idea anon.

There are a fuckton of untranslated games that I'd love to play like the Sakura Taisen series,or Grandia's Saturn version without all the Working Design bullshit.

I want to help but I have 0 knowledge of both Jap and romhacking,but I'm ready to learn.

The problem is,where the fuck do I even start with the second?

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633e77  No.16822243

Considering that my favorite series got a pretty bad localization for the two first games that were released in the US, I wouldn't mind wanting to start a project for it. Unfortunately it's taking a backseat to another project I'm working with a friend. If you guys are familiar with the King's Field series, the translations/localizations of those games were of questionable quality at certain points, and not just names, but also with some characters having their lines completely rewritten.

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f0df0e  No.16822250

>>16822218

Hacking generally means learning ASM, which is a simple-but-difficult-but-powerful low level language that changes for different chip families. The Z80 chip seems to be the best starting point for learning ASM because it's pretty basic and straightforward, but also because the entire x86 series is derived from it.

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02bfd0  No.16822274

>>16822243

>Considering that my favorite series got a pretty bad localization for the two first games that were released in the US

Wild Arms?

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633e77  No.16822276

>>16822274

King's Field, read the rest of the post.

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02bfd0  No.16822283

>>16822276

I thought King's Field was the project you were working on with a friend. My bad.

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633e77  No.16822291

>>16822283

Understandable, the other project is an MMO project that's been long running in Japan, ended a few years ago.

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21932c  No.16822343

>>16821355

>KotakuInAction is at this point controlled opposition

There's kotakuinaction2.

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bf23ef  No.16822447

File: 3e99f0c90784a5d⋯.png (51.74 KB, 470x368, 235:184, ClipboardImage.png)

>>16821353

First of all I'd like to thank everyone for the outpour of interest.

Typing down that wall of text was draining (even though it was a cathartic sort of rant, after all what transpired, you know what happened to Tom hits harder when you actually had a chance to speak to the guy, he's an angel and deserves none of this… and yes in case you were wondering, other people in the translation community ARE scared shitless of touching problem games.)

Apologies for taking my sweet time.

I'm not a native English speaker, so you'll have to excuse the wonky syntax (this disqualifies me of any script editing duties)

Alright. So without further ado, let us begin.

First of all, game consoles use graphics primarily. Backgrounds and sprites for older ones, then textures for newer ones. Fancy words that all mean "images". The difference is as follows:

- Backgrounds use a rigid grid for each image ("tile") position, say D6 (column D, line 6) on a map. Such a map is called a tilemap, and describes a whole screen and how it's filled.

- Sprites can appear everywhere on screen, say put this image on pixel 220 horizontally, 130 vertically. They're not bound by grids. However, they are limited in number.

- Textures are "clothing" for 3D models. Of course, some 3D models can be a flat rectangle (like in Castlevania Symphony of the Night)

Often, there's no dedicated API for text (at least not until very recent consoles). So game text uses graphics.

There's a huge graphic (we call that the font) with all possible usable characters (letters, kana, kanji, digits, symbols) in the game.

When it tries to display text, the game reads a byte from that text.

If it's a valid value for a text character, it cuts a small rectangle from that huge graphic that contains only that letter.

Then, using one of those three methods (backgrounds, sprites, textures), it pastes that character onscreen.

When the screen next updates (after a timing called V-blank that happens between frames, usually) the letter will be shown.

Then rinse and repeat with the next letter…

Sometimes there are bytes that aren't associated with characters. We call those control codes. For example:

- Pause text until player presses A

- Pauses text until specific timing elapses (usually counted in frames)

- Brings up a multiple choice (Yes/No, Buy/Sell, etc)

- Calls a numerical variable (nb of Gold you own, etc)

- Calls a variable string (Player Name)

- Call a constant string elsewhere from the game (for example, "Long Ass Name Island"), when done to save space this is called Dictionnary Compression, MTE, DTE (when it's only two letters) and other fancy names. Used heavily in SNES JRPGs.

- Changes the color of the next characters

- Changes music

- Displays an icon

- May even call an animation or event scripting (this is used in Castlevania Symphony of the Night, when Dracula throws the wine glass)

- Changes the speed of the text

Sometimes they are in the beginning of the text, for:

- Change font used, or effect used (the starry effect in Paper Mario)

- Change portrait and name of speaker

- Position and Size of the message box

You can make a backup of your ROM and change those at your leisure with a hex editor, trying out all possible values until it clicks. You may even find unused content this way.

The most important, however, are the following. You're free not to study a game's control code in full, but you must at least get those, because you actually need them for TEXT EXTRACTION.

- Line break

- Next section (message box contents is cleared, then filled again) or Next message box (message box disappears, a new one appears)

- END character (when the game reaches this, it stops parsing the text. Usually goes back to gameplay here, or the next event.)

Now, for the example.

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fce19e  No.16822456

File: f9748670ce58a99⋯.jpg (568.17 KB, 320x240, 4:3, skele erection 2.jpg)

>>16822447

I don't remember April's tits being that big.

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4a128e  No.16822459

>>16821355

KiA2 (KotakuinAction2) is the new hub for anyone who cares. People got tired of the censorship, bullshit and "moderator curation" there.

KiA1 has been taken over by the mods and barely anyone visits it anymore compared to KiA2.

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bf23ef  No.16822469

>>16822216

>>16822103

Knew about Gitlab but not this. Thanks a lot.

This project's scope wouldn't have anything offensive by normie standards, but you never know. Mere guilt by association is enough to shut things down.

>>16821952

That would be an excellent plan. What I would love to see is a library of script dumps of both Japanese and English versions, plus the tables (those are the custom encoding specific to each game), and ideally downloadable copies of those scripts that are extractor/insertor friendly.

Game scripts would be reviewed quickly and each line given a mark

>Okay/Mostly okay (identical mostly, mild localization flavor is okay)

>Okay with self inserts (memes, politics, overacted DQ accents, appended political rants, etc)

> Okay but bloated with self rants (same as previous but if the added crap is longer than the actual equivalent for the Japanese text + mild flavor)

>Mostly wrong with self inserts (think Valis cameo in Exile that replaced "I'm Yuko, I'm tired of fighting" to "Remember to buy the next Working Designs game!", or rants about git gud culture and toxic masculinity in Monster Hunter on 3DS that replace legitimate tutorial text, key word REPLACE)

>Mostly wrong with ideological motives (

>Inaccessible ingame in english version

>Inaccessible ingame in all versions

>Missing altogether (justified if text is a grammatical fragment, tied to a mechanic changed in localization programming like the game over in Wonder Boy V, but do note the reason)

>Missing altogether with no justification (Quintet puzzle in Terranigma completely removed, for example)

>Added in localization

>Uncategorized

Then, you run a percentage statistic of all lines. You can then evaluate, numerically, if that game's translation is good enough or not from a purist standpoint, and avoid any personal bias (if you're a SJW, you won't forgive a line that mocks gamers and whites; nor would you if you're on the other side forgive WildBill for turning a 1 box message about being a prisoner in an alien jail to 5 boxes of rants about welfare checks and the Irak War)

That part is what really requires the initial help of Japanese fluent anons (but even if you know Chinese, it will help) for identifying hanzi/kanji symbols from graphics to text. OCR techniques are still lagging far behind on this.

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633e77  No.16822527

>>16822469

That would be a cool idea, that way we can get the scripts ready so people can see the text. It gives them something to see and may motivate them to translate.

You do make a point in the previous post in regards to text in these games requiring different methods to gather this data. For King's Field, the only current 'text' extraction method was to actually take the 'text' layer and extract it as a screenshot. It was a bizarre method. I need to find that file when I get back from work and see if that file is around.

Outside of KF, I would also love to see the Breath of Fire series given the retranslation effort that BoFII was given (even if I hear that some of the stuff may not be as good.)

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52b93c  No.16822552

>>16822469

If you post some images I can transcribe them, but I am not going to bother translating anything.

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239a67  No.16822572

Persona II Innocent Sin Fan translation has mutiple shemales in it- there's one chocolatte brown ladyboy fortune teller and a girl who swapped her vag with a penis due to meme magic

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f7a324  No.16822609

>>16822469

>>Missing altogether with no justification (Quintet puzzle in Terranigma completely removed, for example)

It's because they reference games that didn't come out in europe, though for some reason they did try to translate and even localize it before just abandoning it. Shit like that happens all the time(Rhythm Haven fever outside Japan has the credits stage cut in half because the first part references the Japan only GBA game)

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bf23ef  No.16822638

>>16822552

That's good enough anon. It's useful, crucial even I'd say. Without your kind of help, we can't even generate a full script to give to translators to begin with.

>>16822609

Only Robotrek didn't come out in Europe out of the referenced games. The English text cut it completely but the French and German versions translated everything but the Robotrek references, which were replaced. It's so illogical.

>>16822527

>For King's Field, the only current 'text' extraction method was to actually take the 'text' layer and extract it as a screenshot.

Mind you, some games use methods that make a screenshot of the text the only viable method. Generated from extracted assets of course, not requiring to play through it (which will never catch all possible text efficiently unless it's a shooter or something)

For example:

- Games with individual encodings for each text file (Tomba, Lifesigns 1 DS, Ninku-Kun on GameGear)

- Games that store each message box prerendered, as a graphic (Bangai-O, Ace Combat 3, Sin and Punishment N64 etc)

- Games that store text on videos as hardcoded subtitles (ouch)

Alright. For now I wish everyone interested could look into the following:

- Get the actual games: I recommend downloading full No-Intro sets of platforms you enjoy. They are giant compressed files with every single known game released on the platform. (Will be missing revisions or new games, but No-Intro are sometimes faggots who omit important games because of vague criteria, like recent homebrew or virtual console games)

If you stick to retro consoles, you can comfortably have 1GB-3GB sets for each console. Starting with the N64/GBA, it skyrockets to 12GB each, then NDS is 198GB, and disc based consoles are even bigger. Computer games (PC-98, MSX, W95) have gigantic sets as well (12GB at the least)

Check the emulation general wiki, or the r/Roms subreddit (will be nuked very soon) for this. For now, I will try to provide the games we look at.

Our game will be Fatal Labyrinth for the Sega Genesis, because it's so small it's useful for our purposes.

This game is a remake of a downloadable game released in 1990. They're not the same thing, as the original lacks any semblance of a story. The remake was never released in Japan officially, however if you set the language of the console (emulator setting) to Japanese, it will reveal a full working Japanese version of the game.

…………….

(How can i include a zip file in the post ?)

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bf23ef  No.16822639

- Emulators : There are general use emulators, and then there are emulators with good debuggers. The latter will help us far more.

For the Sega Genesis, I recommend this one, a fork of Gens : https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/1123/

<but anon, Gens is a shitty emulator! I read elsewhere that Genesis Plus GX is more accurate, and can run more games!

Sure, but you'll need to live with it.

A good emulator for playing games is

- fast

- as compatible as possible (more than moderate accuracy isn't needed, unless you wanna run it on real hardware. do avoid obvious buggy emulators like ZSNES)

- has a fast forward option

- has savestates

- has cheat support (yes, how would you rush through it to test an end game sequence otherwise - developers use cheats like this as "debug menus" just fine, but do have someone else playtest it normally before releasing it in case you don't wanna do like NISA missing a crash bug in the unavoidable final boss after three turns, of one of their localizations)

A good debugger emulator has

- a very good cheat engine

- doesn't reset your saves (some versions of mednafen) or refuse to allow you to boot the game (MAME without external UI workarounds) if the game's checksum doesn't match the copy you started your playthrough with (it will obviously change, genius, you're changing the game)

- TAS features: besides save states, you NEED frame advance and pause binded to a hotkey each. Other features are less essential.

- Viewers: mainly a tile viewer (for the graphical memory, unorganized), then a background/sprite viewer (for how the tile viewer contents are assembled and displayed onscreen), and a feature to make individual background layers visible/hidden.

- debugger features: in the order of importance: disassembler, breakpoint, hex viewer with good dumper (pukes the game's working memory to an external file if you need to study it further), trace logger, assembler (last because usually it's an external tool, but FCEUX includes it.)

On that note, since you're using Gens, make sure to enable Options/General/Auto Fix Checksum.

The Sega Genesis has a built-in protection, any game that was tampered with will show a red screen and crash there (game knows this if its checksum is incorrect, it's a value stored in the ROM at the very top to check against the current contents of the ROM) the permanent solution is to run a checksum fix utility for sega games, but this makes things faster for testing.

The romhacking tools:

We use these to figure out the custom encoding used by the game, and generate a table file (TBL) that describes it. We'll still need to complete it manually with control codes (it can be modified with Notepad++ to add new entries)

- Relative Search tool: https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/513/ (I think this one is superior https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/998/ but it's less user friendly for a first tutorial)

- Oriton: http://magicteam.net/index.php?page=programs&show=Oriton

We use these to show the text in the ROM, and do manual edits for texts and study how the rom is laid out…

- Hex editor with table support: https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/291/ (if anyone knows better alternatives, please share)

We use these to show the graphics in the ROM.

(NOTE: Not all graphics will be visible. This is because of compression that crunches their data to be more compact, to fit smaller sizes. We'll see about that later, but for now we won't need this for a simple text study.)

- Tile editors: YY-CHR, Tilemolester, Crystaltile2…

For now, I recommend Crystaltile2: https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/818/

This is what you need for now.

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bf23ef  No.16822688

File: 2fa059d54c0d0a1⋯.png (200.7 KB, 930x767, 930:767, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 21d73d443ae12ba⋯.png (334.08 KB, 482x335, 482:335, ClipboardImage.png)

File: fab7d23ff448020⋯.png (34.35 KB, 670x581, 670:581, ClipboardImage.png)

File: b28187d04ce6984⋯.png (149.72 KB, 793x631, 793:631, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 434432b6eeec8c9⋯.png (208.65 KB, 1115x344, 1115:344, ClipboardImage.png)

English text extraction

<STEP 1

Take a quick look with the tile editor (Crystaltile2) and look for the FONT.

The font is a graphic with all possible usable characters in-game. We can notice the English letters A-Z are stored continuously in order, and that there's no lower case letters.

This is the easiest case.

Note: Quick tips on using CT2:

F5-F8/View: Change editor (Tile Viewer, Hex Editor, ASM Viewer (GBA-only), Tile Editor), we want the "Tile Viewer"

UDLR Arrows: scroll view

UDLR + Shift: expand view (more tiles horizontally/vertically)

UDLR + Alt: change tile width (keep it 8x8 for most cases, most useful with PS1/GBA games)

LR + Ctrl: move by 1 byte (usually shifts the image, or its color for PS1/2/3 games)

UD + Ctrl / Tile Form: change tile mode. Usually each console has a few recommended tile modes. A partial list:

All: solid 1bpp / NDS 1bpp

NES: NES 2BPP

Genesis: MD/N64 4BPP

SNES: GB 2BPP, SNES 4BPP (buggy on CT2, use another tool), SNES 8BPP (not in CT2, ditto), GBA 8BPP (Mode7)

GBA: VB 2BPP, GBA 4BPP, GBA 8BPP

WonderSwan: GB 2BPP, SNES 4BPP, SMS 4BPP

PS1: GBA 4BPP, GBA 8BPP, RGB 16bpp (etc) + tile height/width for the whole canvas (usually like 128, 256, instead of 8x8)

<STEP 2

Play the game. You didn't see that coming, huh.

Screenshot a line that uses this font. Remember that line. Memorize it.

(Some text is obviously not using a font, like the title screen "Fatal Labyrinth". In case you want to make sure, Gens has a graphical tile viewer for you to make sure if there's a loaded font or not (Called VDP Viewer here, because the graphical processor memory for the Genesis is the VPU. Other consoles may call that memory PPU (SNES/NES), or VRAM…)

<STEP 3

Create the table

Get Monkeymoore. Open the ROM.

Look for a word in the text and write it in that field.

It must only contain the characters A-Z or a-z

Moreover, the font must be ordered. You checked for it in step 1.

If you want to include spaces, you can use a wildcard character (it replaces ONE byte. Most English games use 1 byte per character, but any Japanese game with kanji may use 2 bytes sometimes or always.)

Start a search. Here I'll try DESTROYED

If it autocompletes the rest of the sentence, that means I got it correctly.

I note down the offset where it found it ( 0x2D1F ) click that option, and save the TBL file as EnglishFatalLabyrinth.tbl

<STEP 4

Correct the table

Open the Table file (TBL) With Oritron.

You can notice it's similar to the font we extracted…

We can then manually fix it to remove wrong characters (like a-z, which don't actually exist in the game but were auto-generated by Monkeymoore), and add punctuation in the very beginning.

The Fill Cells option in particular will be very useful if you want to write multiple characters in succession to their correct spots.

Make sure to save the table.

<STEP 5

View the text

Open WindHex32.

File>Open File For editing = Choose the ROM for the game

File>Open Table File>Table 1 = Choose the TBL file

Search>Goto offset = paste 0x2D1F (which I found earlier with monkeymoore) to go to where the text is.

(you can also use Search>Text Search as well)

You can see the text but… there's so many points!

Those are unknown character values. If you click on one of the periods on the right, the equivalent byte is highlighted on the left…

Just right off the bat, you can notice byte 20 is a space.

Go back to Oritron, change the byte 20 (third line "2", first column "0") to a space, and save the table.

Reload the table (File>Swap Table File> EnglishFatalLabyrinth.tbl )

The spaces are showing!

Rinse and repeat for other unknown characters.

But the most important values are the control codes for:

- line breaks

- section ends (new box)

- end

Make sure to know which values are used for those, as well.

Try this out with your favorite games, everyone.

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b33fb5  No.16822699

>>16822552

Save yourself some heartache and look up Capture2Text or similar, if you weren't already going to do that.

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bf23ef  No.16822781

File: 81d0ef5e65671eb⋯.png (30.67 KB, 221x620, 221:620, ClipboardImage.png)

File: c8c6893971bd31d⋯.png (24.08 KB, 599x238, 599:238, ClipboardImage.png)

File: d757a0bd5e6c5b2⋯.png (33.54 KB, 680x585, 136:117, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 02b1e78d57d5994⋯.png (129.6 KB, 786x601, 786:601, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 7640d9291e0e74e⋯.png (145.84 KB, 780x605, 156:121, ClipboardImage.png)

>>16822699

Not useful for low resolution characters and fonts. OCR services rely on context, and the nip equivalent of ABCDEF… occasionally out of order, isn't very useful.

>>16822708

I don't get how what you're saying is called for here, lol.

The fan translation scene is full of really talented normal people, who really aren't on board with this.

They're just not loudly signaling their personal politics or vying moderator positions.

They're the one who do the actual work after all.

Even many lefties into this are sensible and (reluctantly) stand with Tom because their common sense is stronger.

https://archive.vn/SFTHH

https://twitter.com/REBehindtheMask/status/1222210834815967232

When you see the projects ResetEra tried to infiltrate, they often offered to be translators (at best) or "localization editors", or idea men. They had a mod with a slime avatar that did romhacks of her own (bigger text in Chrono Trigger DS) but never shared them, instead more interested in consuming other's works, research or controlling how it releases, often with unsollicited concern trolling.

Your best shot is to really enjoy what you're doing regardless of what others do (and only spare them any thought for when you think how you want to get your work out without obstructions, really), love what you do, love yourself (you're doing something great, and learning new things about your favorite games), and love your audience (that deserves nothing short of excellence, not the latest indoctrination manual to achieve political quotas for the party this year)

But enough about that.

Let's try again, but with the Japanese text.

There's no "standard" Japanese encoding on most retro consoles.

Standard encodings for Japanese are:

- ANSI + JP encodings (katakana only, rarely used)

- Shift-JIS : Most common encoding, uses 2 bytes

- EUC-JP : Used occasionally until the mid-nineties

- UTF-8 / Unicode : Used after the 2000s

All of these but the first are 2-bytes per character, whereas ROM space is a precious commodity.

So most Japanese games in retro consoles use CUSTOM, ARBITRARY encodings. Which is a bitch ass move.

Monkeymore expects a "standard latin encoding" that has ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ, in upper case and lower case. Because that's how English works. There's no such safe expectation for Japanese games. So you need to provide it one yourself.

Well, I said "safe expectation", but there are some rough safe assumptions…

(Note that you need some basic knowledge about Japanese writing system to make the best of the following…)

Gojūon (fifty sounds): This order is used for kana. Hiragana first, then katakana.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goj%C5%ABon

90% of games will always have あいうえお (aiueo) in this order, then somewhere else なにぬねの (na ni nu ne no) …

It will be a-i-u-e-o, for vowels only then K S T N H M … then it gets murky how Y R W N are ordered.

Besides this, what about the dakuten / handakuten / small variants of kana?

Sometimes you have ka ki ku ke ko … followed after n by ga gi gu ge go

But other times you have ka ga ki gi ku gu ke ge ko go … (in all cases dakuten always go before handakuten)

How do you even begin to know?

The answer is the font. Which I extracted earlier.

That's an image that's almost surely reflecting the actual logical order for the characters.

In our example, Fatal Labyrinth, the order is:

>あいうえおかきくけこさしすせそたちつてとなにぬねのはひふへほまみむめもやゆよらりるれろわをんぁぃぅぇぉっゃゅょアイウエオカキクケコサシスセソタチツテトナニヌネノハヒフヘホマミムメモヤユヨラリルレロワヲンァィゥェォッャュョ

I got this by writing this down by hand.

(do note I omitted the dakuten and handakuten symbols. I'll try and avoid any words that use them in monkeymoore too.)

Let's try the same previous steps, but with some twists.

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bf23ef  No.16822802

File: 9bbc022ec6e29e4⋯.png (240.07 KB, 1115x404, 1115:404, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 08ec115ec2176ad⋯.png (601.78 KB, 1593x400, 1593:400, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 19bf5a71d94babb⋯.png (153.62 KB, 787x601, 787:601, ClipboardImage.png)

<STEP 2

Play game, now forced to Japanese (CPU > Country > Japanese (NTSC), Hard Reset)

<STEP 3

Use monkeymoore with the order found before:

Enable "define character set" and paste

>あいうえおかきくけこさしすせそたちつてとなにぬねのはひふへほまみむめもやゆよらりるれろわをんぁぃぅぇぉっゃゅょアイウエオカキクケコサシスセソタチツテトナニヌネノハヒフヘホマミムメモヤユヨラリルレロワヲンァィゥェォッャュョ

We'll now look for the word せかいに (in this world) and… we already got some results, that autocomplete correctly :)

The dakuten characters did cause some problems (が is erronously displayed as ア … this means "ga" is in this game's logic directly after "a" despite what the font implies, and that the katakana are actually further down.

No issue. This process is a trial and error. We change our "define character set" to just

>あいうえおかきくけこさしすせそたちつてとなにぬねのはひふへほまみむめもやゆよらりるれろわをんぁぃぅぇぉっゃゅょ

Do our search again, and select the option, after making sure to note down the offset 0x28EE where it found it

We save our new table as FatalLabyrinthJapan.tbl

It will be in UTF-8.

Now we'll do a quick fix in order to make life easier on us.

We'll create a copy of this file, open it with Notepad++, convert it to Shift-JIS encoding, save, paste the original contents, and finally save.

We need the table in Shift-JIS format to prevent incompatibilities with Oritron and Shift-JIS.

<STEP 4

Fix table with Oritron.

Open Oritron.

Change Code Page to "932 Japan Shift-JIS"

Open the table.

Let's keep it open for now.

Since it's the same font as earlier, it SHOULD also have English characters A-Z in the same location as the previous attempt.

We copy

>ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ

and paste under "Characters to fill the cells". We click on the cell 41 (fifth line, second column), then we click "Fill Cells".

We may save the table, but leave Oritron open.

Now we check with Windhex32.

We go to 0x28EE, and enable "Option>View Text As Unicode"

Our goal for now: figure out the rest of the font

We can notice already that

> が is 97

> ドラゴン is F5 D6 EB DD

> 。 is 12 (despite being in the bottom of the font, go figure)

What I would do here is to try and change the text in this line to something like 97 98 99 9A 9B 9D 9E 9F then A0 A1 … AF, then B0 … and so on. And every time, I would check the game in the emulator to see how it changed.

But before that, I can at least deduce that the Japanese font is laid out like this:

> punctuation

= unknown, before 20

> ascii punctuation and digits

= from 20 to 3F

> A-Z

(A)

= from 41 to 5F

> hiragana

(あ)

= from 60 to 96

> hiragana + dakuten

(が)

= from 97 to ??

> katakana

(ア)

= from ?? to ??

> katakana + dakuten

(ガ)

= from ?? to F?

What now? I replay the game some more, and sure enough there is some mention of "dragoniA".

That's the katakana "a" I needed. We check it in the hex editor.

ア is B0.

We can then copy

>アイウエオカキクケコサシスセソタチツテトナニヌネノハヒフヘホマミムメモヤユヨラリルレロワヲンァィゥェォッャュョ

and fill Oritron with it, starting with B0.

The Japanese table is getting more and more complete.

Our goal will be to complete it in full, eventually.

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bf23ef  No.16822829

File: 17b7e228053cd87⋯.png (11.9 KB, 128x512, 1:4, makeruna jp.PNG)

File: d5598a448e9995c⋯.png (16.17 KB, 128x512, 1:4, shit lord jp.PNG)

File: 24c957b350ad588⋯.png (25.95 KB, 616x317, 616:317, ClipboardImage.png)

I'll finish the tutorial with the script extraction process later, and with that everyone should have a basic method they can apply on as many games as possible, short of some extra programming quirks that complicate things. It's a perpetual learning experience.

This is where I need to explain why we need all the help we can get, after this massive technical bore. You see in the above part, everything is relatively easy and doable…

Except for this part.

Image 1 is from our previous example.

Pretty straightforward stuff.

It's all variations of the gojuon you'll need to fix manually so that it suits your situation…

>あいうえおかきくけこさしすせそたちつてとなにぬねのはひふへほまみむめもやゆよらりるれろわをんがぎぐげござじずぜぞだぢづでどばびぶべぼぱぴぷぺぽゃゅょぁぃぅぇぉっ

>アイウエオカキクケコサシスセソタチツテトナニヌネノハヒフヘホマミムメモヤユヨラリルレロワヲンガギグゲゴザジズゼゾダヂヅデドバビブベボパピプペポャュョァィゥェォッ

>あいうえおかがきぎくぐけげこごさざしじすずせぜそぞただちぢつづてでとどなにぬねのはばぱひびぴふぶぷへべぺほぼぽまみむめもやゆよらりるれろわをんゃゅょぁぃぅぇぉっ

Alas it's not that simple in most games.

For instance, any game that uses kanji.

There are three major ways the Japanese programmers dealt with these.

< 1 - INCLUDE FULL KANA SET, THEN READ THE JOYOU KANJI SET IN ORDER AND IF THAT KANJI IS USED BY THE GAME, INCLUDE IT

This is used by most retro games with kanji, including some high profile cases such as Final Fantasy on the Super Famicom. The order may be following joyo or shift-jis tables or whatever…

The major problem however is that it skips tons of kanji, so there's no standard reference to copy from…

You'll need to read this and transcribe by hand as text, no matter what, as a prerequisite to dump that game's text.

Example included: Image 2, Brain Lord, Japanese version

(It's a very badly translated game, lots of concepts translated as "Dark Zone" and mistranslated gameplay hints, so a worthwhile case study for later… like many Enix translations)

< 2 - READ THE GAME SCRIPT, ADD NEW LETTERS TO THE ENCODING AS THEY OCCUR IN THE GAME SCRIPT

So if the very first sentence in the game is

>"Good Morning, Chrono!"

The very first letters in the encoding will be

>"God Mrnig,Chn!

For games that mix kanji with kana and use this method, it's a nightmare.

Example included: Makeruna Makendo! / Kendo Rage JP version

(Beyond Oasis uses this too, but it got a decent enough fan retranslation from before the pozz period, so I'll save it for later)

< 3 - IMPLEMENT SHIFT-JIS ENCODING IN SOFTWARE

Some 16-bit games do this whether they include the whole font for Shift-JIS characters or not. This includes later Intelligent System games on SNES (Fire Emblem Thracia 766, Super Famicom Wars, etc), or the Lunar series.

Very common in CD based games.

Modern games have enough memory so they include the font in full anyways.

No example or transcription needed, the shift-jis encoding is well known enough that tables exist for it, and some mainstream hex editors support it natively. It's the best case scenario.

If anyone wants to give those two example images a try, be my guest.

That's the sort of thing we need to get the ball rolling for this project.

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52b93c  No.16822855

>>16822829

>If anyone wants to give those two example images a try, be my guest.

You mean transcribe? I did the first one, except I don't know how to write that sweat drop character so I put an emoji as a placeholder.

 剣野舞(つるぎ

のまい)水準に満

たな学力もはねけ

程道腕を買われ、

名門私立学校美我

破波羅うくしがら

園入。喜びか間そ

こ大き誤算あっ彼

女家とんで~山奥

だて片5時及ぶ「

通旅行」生活始…

!目ぁーす父お熊

気?16才む普人

違何感じぞ使えム

ッ殺や妖ハさご先

祖様調べせリ豪よ

誰怪刑事愛称ドロ

配づ用実逃げ出逮

捕手伝頂ゃワケ関

係身勝達考方今日

乱開発ブみひ土地

封印覚めアンタョ

ょ数多ど戦心廃像

ば持主パ無限退治

奇ゾ化辺永久冗談

💦以上伸ろ危仕本

当所ず単位中泳知

ネ燃書載来後朝前

ぜ君派決モ言ァズ

ィー応セフ超遅刻

的完全留年定也灰

ゆ変努泡次頼回9

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c72230  No.16822858

File: abb939806cbc506⋯.jpg (129.66 KB, 500x354, 250:177, Dom approves.jpg)

This is some 2014-era /v/ stuff.

I approve, I miss threads like these.

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b287c2  No.16822890

So, how do we get around the "english letters in full-width unicode" problem? I suppose it isn't a dealbreaker but if its possible to hack in half-width characters it'd make the text in boxes and menus look much better.

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f0df0e  No.16822895

>>16822890

If the game has a full kanji table one could edit the full width kanji to be combinations of two ASCII characters. I believe a couple of translations did this because it was easier than hacking in VWF.

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ccb944  No.16823184

>>16822858

Same, wish I could help but I don't know Japanese or any programing language.

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7abebc  No.16823189

File: 511f1fbbcfe58ec⋯.jpg (173.97 KB, 1074x1068, 179:178, d36769d9962c818026fb75ddf1….jpg)

I thought this thread was about fan translation in 8kun and supporting others, but retranslation sounds like a retarded idea.

That being said, if there's a game that needs a much better script, to the point of being a total rewrite, that's totally Timespinners. No need to know japanese, you are not translating, you are just rewritting, and I guess the only requirement to fix this game would be finishing it, if you can stomach it, and thinking about a better plot that would fit the game better than the fucking trash that's already in, because otherwise the game is pretty solid.

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b434a6  No.16823206

File: 0b17d1571e5a201⋯.jpg (18.33 KB, 640x615, 128:123, 0b17d1571e5a2017ff87da00e0….jpg)

>>16823189

You do realize the reason this thread exists is because cunts take shit they have no business changing and REWRITE entire characters and stories for no reason other than their own political agenda right?

You do realize thats what youre asking for, right?

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7abebc  No.16823216

>>16823206

Here's the difference: I'm asking if someone is willing to do this, it should be done to make what can be a good game actually enjoyable, whereas these faggots harass either the original creator, or even fan translations, or they just poz the games for no reason like NISA

I'm not doing that, am I, faggot? In either case, this thread is shit anyway, so it might as well can have something good, like a rewrite, and in this case, the original creator of the game had nothing to do with the writing, it was commissioned to those faggots who always poz games.

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bf4174  No.16823245

File: 7b4075c664ba0c8⋯.gif (46.94 KB, 429x410, 429:410, 1368821857967.gif)

>>16823189

>Women would take multiple partners to grow the clan

That's not how any of that works. Christ if you're going to force your dumbass politics into your game at least fucking understand basic human biology. If that was supposed to work the men would take multiple partners not the women.

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52b93c  No.16823246

File: 474e173fdb471f8⋯.gif (132.97 KB, 311x366, 311:366, 474.gif)

>>16823245

>the men would take multiple partners not the women

But that would be misogynist.

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9a5ae5  No.16823256

>>16823189

You're thinking of rewrites and nobody is asking for those. Translation should be about conveying the original story as best as possible, warts and all.

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6f3b57  No.16823257

File: 774e40c6dc62407⋯.jpg (27.77 KB, 552x331, 552:331, WaaaaaahllahuAkbar.jpg)

>>16823246

Your statement is islamophobic.

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c94372  No.16823280

>>16822855

Thanks a lot anon. This is exactly what's needed. I'll work on a text dump for both Kendo Rush and Makeruna Makendo, to compare between both versions.

>>16822890

There's the method that >>16822895 proposed (if the game font is big enough to have more than 1500 characters). Another anon earlier mentioned Okumen46's website which has the actual proper method to fix these games, which is:

> Original game code reads from the text "2 bytes" and interprets from it 1 letter

New code reads from the text 1 byte, converts it to the expected 2 bytes read, then passes it over to the original programming

> Original game code prints a letter, then shifts to the right 20 pixels (ps1/2, it's 16/12 in older consoles) then prints the next letter

New code is a change so that it shifts to the right half that distance.

Some would implement a variable width font here, or unlock an unused variable width font from the JP version.

Sometimes for games that use sprites (there's a hard limit on how many sprites you could have horizontally), they keep the same programming, but change how the sprite's graphics are drawn so that it polls two letter graphics instead of one.

There's many ways…

On top of that, they may add some light compression (MTE) to fit in more text. This added programming hijacks the original for reading 2 bytes of text and interpreting them. They also have to fix any 2-byte control codes broken by this new programming.

>>16823189

For better or worse, that's Timespinners' original developer vision, which is sacrosanct. You won't find me of all people excusing rewrites motivated by ideological and personal preferences, because that would be validating the very thing this topic is against, and which is robbing the world of the right to even experience entire kinds of series with Japanese humour or anti-feminist ideals.

I can live with the thought you or SJWs will use what I share in this thread to make EVEN MORE REWRITES, but I am still finding some worth in this idea. There are people who compare translations for other media, but for gaming the game scripts are hidden behind a layer of technical hurdles that prevents most from accessing that. I want here to eliminate that entry barrier.

Even then, translating new games from scratch, problematic or not, that wouldn't be translated otherwise, is a possible goal.

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f6e755  No.16823281

File: 1267a2e04e65746⋯.jpg (29.84 KB, 480x470, 48:47, 16410d72eb20131986bbdd6029….jpg)

>>16823189

Let's not make retranslations that might end with people buying games made by faggots, thank you very much.

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52b93c  No.16823303

>>16823280

Alright here's the other image then. Again I had to use a placeholder, I put ⇧ in place of that solid ^ that I can't type. Also there is no way to differentiate between ー and 一 and whatever the third character that looks exactly like that.

01234567

89HPM GL

)ろ、わォっー・

▷/゜゛⇧VE 

アイウエオカキク

ケコサシスセソタ

チツテトナニヌネ

ノハヒフヘホマミ

ムメモヤユヨラリ

ルレロワをンァィ

ゃェんッャュョあ

いうえおかきくけ

こさしすせそたち

つてとなにぬねの

はひふへほまみむ

めもやゆよらりる

れ。”ヲ?!ゅょ

北南町城東西神悪

長妖精魔法女王国

飛空泉大古地下都

火旅人水村子供話

屋年科学兵器者日

間武山海道前文明

塔時代攻撃力御戦

士様支配気私防具

自分目見物酒行手

入争方向洞窟語中

生一仲死来闘隊男

立強思部口名何足

世界番使ー邪底研

究室場動体剣金上

宿ぁ宝石所家技今

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724cb3  No.16823306

>>16823303

>in place of that solid ^ that I can't type

Fucking newfags, can't even triforce

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52b93c  No.16823307

>>16823306

Thanks, I was trying to find a way to type it using the Japanese IME and it didn't show up. Also I am pretty sure this isn't jouyou order, since a lot of the kanji form normal words that show up often in games. It's probably the same case as the other image, where the kanji are added as they occur.

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8a787d  No.16823396

File: 5bdf6e7400aa5ea⋯.jpg (170.85 KB, 372x525, 124:175, you can't learn russian.jpg)

>>16821353

This looks like an absolutely fantastic thread.

If you need to, I have a bunker board over at https://anon.cafe/lang/ and one over here on 8kun at https://8kun.top/subs/index.html

I would gladly give you a mod position, OP, especially if you used that as a repository to help people translate and scanlate stuff.

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7abebc  No.16823403

>>16823280

>For better or worse, that's Timespinners' original developer vision

It isn't. The dev didn't give a shit about plot or lore because he can't write, the main dev, the guy who started the Kickstarter, said that he commissioned the writing.

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c50bc6  No.16823428

>>16822829

For the kanji part of Brain Lord.

北南町城東西神悪

長妖精魔法女王国

飛空泉大古地下都

火旅人水村子供話

屋年科学兵器者日

間武山海道前文明

塔時代攻撃力御戦

士様支配気私防具

自分目見物酒行手

入争方向洞窟語中

生一仲死来闘隊男

立強思部口名何足

世界番使ー邪底研

究室場動体剣金上

宿ぁ宝石所家技今

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a78c33  No.16823670

File: 49fb3c5dc4f4d32⋯.png (174.2 KB, 789x598, 789:598, ClipboardImage.png)

>>16823396

>>>16823428

>>>16823307

>>>16823303

>Thank you, everyone.

>I will make sure to put that to good use.

>About emojis and symbols, that's alright, I'm restricted by what Shift-JIS (the format I saved the tbl file to, because WindHex32 is shit and requires it that way, and no one else made a competent hex editor with table support yet *winking twice for programmer help* so we're stuck with it)

>You don't have to bother or change anything about it, as long as it's a single character it suits me fine for Oritron's "Fill Cells" feature. I'll replace characters that don't convert well on my own later (with <sweat> instead of 💦 for example.

>>>16823396

>I'm flattered by the offer. I'm sure even as a learning tool, this could be useful to others.

>How would this even work on an anonymous imageboard though?

>I'm a normie who can't even upload a file here (guess I'll use anonfiles, but i'm pretty sure i saw some upload zip files directly here before) let alone arrange any needed communications.

>You guys have an IRC?

>And now, back to our scheduled programming for the final part of the tutorial.

>I finished the table for Fatal Labyrinth with the methods mentioned above.

>You can download it from here: https://anonfile.com/t2AbHaR2nf/FatalLabyrinthJapan_tbl

>As we said earlier, this table file can be edited with Oritron, or Notepad++.

>It will be later useful for hex editors with table support, such as WindHex32 (which I'm ready to drop like a bad habit should a better alternative arise)

>Let's look at it with Oritron.

>You'll notice those two oddities there:

>FF=<l>

>00=<e>

>Those are CONTROL CODES.

>This game is pretty straightforward, so it only has the two essential control codes you actually need for text extraction and reinsertion.

><l> is the line break.

><e> is what signals this current message ended.

>As I said earlier, you MUST figure out the hex equivalents for those (FF and 00 here, respectively) to get anything done.

>Remember the Earthbound tent glitch?

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPCFmr3Itog

>This is caused by the game ignoring the <e> / END control code, so it starts to read garbage data after the valid text data. That END control code tells the game (and our text extractor) to stop parsing text data.

>Moving on…

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021afa  No.16823688

File: 4740f1f1b868389⋯.png (184.76 KB, 1111x418, 101:38, ClipboardImage.png)

>>16823428

>>16823307

>>16823303

>>16823396

Messed up the tags in my previous reply because the site was having some problems.

Please refer to it.

Continuing…

Let's now use the almost complete table on our ROM, with WindHex32.

The game doubles as an English version and a Japanese version.

Let's focus on English text for now, a block of English text that starts from 59AC (look at the status bar, in front of "Offset", if you struggle to count)

JUST THEN,<l>

A BLINDING LIGHT<l>

ISSUES FORTH<l>

FROM THE HOLY GOBLET<l>

AND COVERS THE<l>

WORLD WITH ITS<l>

BRILLIANCE.<l>

<l>

<l><e>

According to online video playthroughs this message shows once, then disappears. A cutscene happens after it. The text after it "LOOK! …" is part of a different message box that appears after the cutscene.

The first message "JUST THEN (…)" begins from 59AC

The second message "LOOK! (…)" begins from 5A16

But if you look at the garbage just before the text, in the hex area on the left, rather than the text area on the right, you'll see 59 AC 5A 16 …

Yes, you guessed it, that data tells the game where each line begins in the ROM.

>59AC

>5A16

>5A50

>5AB8

>5CB4

and then, the first letter of "JUST THEN", which we established is valid text data, not part of that.

This hex array has enough information to describe the locations of 5 sentences.

Its format XX XX is two bytes long, so if we want to use it to move text elsewhere in the ROM (say, to fit a longer translation), we are restricted by locations between 0000 and FFFF in the ROM, never beyond.

This is called a POINTER TABLE, that contains 5 POINTERS.

Finding pointer tables is an incredible boon for any serious attempt to extract game text, because you will then extract it in the LOGICAL order intended by the developers, which may be different from how they appear in the ROM.

<Note: This example is easy mode.

The Sega Genesis is a BIG ENDIAN system. So is the Wii U and the N64. However most other consoles, as well as PC architectures, are LOW ENDIAN.

This means that the pointer to 59AC will be stored AC 59 instead. Its bytes were written in reverse order.

This particular game uses the direct value of the address as the pointer. This may not be the case in other games.

We will now try and document the Fatal Labyrinth ROM.

Where it text occurs. Where associated pointer tables to said text occurs.

When we finish our research, we will give it to a tool that will dump the ENTIRE GAME SCRIPT in one click. And reinsert it for good measure.

(To be Continued Later.)

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6c3d1d  No.16823756

You know, I've wanted to play Card Hero for the longest goddamn time and nobody else seemed to care enough to translate a Nintendo title of all things, even if obscure. Maybe I should use this as the excuse to go at it myself. How hard can an all-kana game aimed at elementary level students be to translate, I ask ensuring my eventual doom.

I'll read through the notes here when I'm more awake, but if there's any GB specific notes out there for dumping scripts I'd like to know. I could always use some Japanese practice and have given up on just about every other joy in life. Why not translate games?

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d576ca  No.16823763

File: 541f54ed98d1e2a⋯.jpg (271.28 KB, 575x800, 23:32, Midna in the forest.jpg)

Something that's bothered me for quite some time has been that one anon who claimed to have been a nintendo "translator" and Twilight Princess' story got fucked hard in the western release, but never made any specifics other than "it ruined the story".

Can someone, anyone, tell me if he had any truth to what he said or if he was just being a fuckwit?

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3f7b79  No.16823768

>>16823756

>only enjoys practicing Japanese and has no other hobbies

私の黒人だ

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e32ca6  No.16823773

Good luck bros. Ask other weeb boards for help if necessary.

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021afa  No.16823853

File: cd33bf182aec379⋯.png (488.49 KB, 634x315, 634:315, ClipboardImage.png)

>>16823763

His story wasn't implausible. He notably said that NoA inflates their budget by making the localization changes list bigger and bigger.

We know that the overseas release of Fatal Frame IV, despite NoE finishing it and running promos, was cancelled because NoA didn't get paid for "required localization changes" by Tecmo. That was never a problem with the Europe-exclusive version of Fatal Frame 2 Wii.

We also know a Japanese higherup was fed up with the constant inflations to Tokyo Mirage Sessions (including paying the A list Japanese seiyuus TWICE to record censored lines) so they told them to wrap it up and release a partially censored version that still has exposed boobs in battle models but not cutscene models, something that would never fly with rating boards if they required it, so they didn't require it.

We also know Fire Emblem Fates is among the best selling SRPGs of all time, yet its localization somehow went OVERBUDGET so they never localized all of its DLCs, and they didn't have sexy content as a fallback excuse to cut.

About the translation itself, it wouldn't be out of character. The Fire Emblem translations from 2003-2007 were disastrous. Made up character deaths, arbitrarily changed characterization, etc… There IS one way to find out, fortunately. Since Zelda Twilight Princess is a more modern game, it uses UTF-8, so text extraction should be easy.

I'll look later at the US GameCube version, and figure out which file has the text (it had a bmg extension, you can extract it with the Dolphin emulator from Proprieties for that game) Anyone with a Japanese copy will be really welcome to contribute the Japanese equivalent for that file.

>>16823756

>How hard can an all-kana game aimed at elementary level students be to translate

Technically? Simple enough. There might be length limitations for things like items and monster names…

>any GB specific notes out there for dumping scripts

The concept of pointers mentioned above still applies.

However valid values for GB pointers are low endian, and always from 4000-7FFF.

Do nothing, or Add/substract 4000 or 8000 once until it fits in that interval.

(Only exception is 000000-003FFF, which are 0000-3FFF without modification)

What this means: Say you have the address 072010. Your pointer will use 2010. To fit in the 4000-7FFF interval, you'll add 4000 once. So you get 6010. Which fits in the interval. As the GB is low endian, your pointer will be something like 1060.

This concept of intervals exist in other consoles:

NES: 8000-FFFF

SNES (LoRom games only): 8000-FFFF

Again, there are exceptions to the rule everywhere.

>Why not translate games?

It can be a more rewarding experience than you'd think at first.

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0b87b7  No.16823870

>>16821358

wait, there is a good translation for ff fates?

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578cd5  No.16823875

>>16823870

if i recall there was a translation project for it buts in development hell on serenes forest

http://archive.is/kEt9Y

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947ff6  No.16823894

Would love to have the GBA port of Shin Megami Tensei 1 and 2 translated since it includes extra content and QoL improvements but Atlus games aren't easy to work with compared to other games, not sure how many will browse the thread but hope someone more skilled try and take a crack at it since I couldn't figure out what to do with it.

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578cd5  No.16823896

>>16823894

why not the playstation versions?

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947ff6  No.16823900

>>16823896

I could be wrong but I remember the PS1 ports of SMT1, 2 and if were straight ports with QoL improvements like crab-walking but no additional content, the GBA ports of SMT1 and 2, included the visionary items, they weren't much but they did add some more context to scenes such as the protagonist's mom being eaten by a demon. It's just me wanting the latest, slightly improved version of the games.

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578cd5  No.16823906

>>16823900

if i remember most of the visionary stuff had been translatable but the gba versions mostly have slighlty dumbed down graphics and a terrible sound quality. The Playstation version have save data related stuff that can help with if… and if… itself speeds up the world of sloth cycles. Theirs the Sega CD version with the cut scenes and semi graphical improvements and the TGFX version which i assume is like the CD edition. If atlus actually updated it we'd still have the ios port but so far theirs no ios emulator and then again the ios version has the translated gba rom which someone tried extracting but no word of it since last year

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947ff6  No.16823915

>>16823906

Yeah, all the visionary items have been translated although it's a bit, pardon the autism, out of place to read a text file without anything to link it with, guess it's possible to find a Japanese playthrough and sub that which I have done before, I "helped" with an undub by subbing and encoding the videos but you're right though, the GBA versions look awful compared to the PS1 and the sound is simply terrible. Wasn't there a project to translate the PS1 version of if? Not sure what became of that because the SNES version released and everyone went quiet. I'm not skilled with PS1 games so I'm unsure how to dump the script, videos and audio I can do but that's about it.

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578cd5  No.16823921

>>16823915

if i recall the person who claimed they would translate if was the guy who got harassed off twitter because another translator had been doing the snes version but hadn't released it for years despite being 80%-90% done eventually the fag got fed up and finished it but as to what happened with the PSX if was probably just cancelled or left on the side. As for the ios port the extracted files are out but its a FUCKING SOURCE PORT meaning that a hex editor for the gba and ios show a 0% overlap and that porting/translating it means comparing the text in the translation file line by line. Although the good thing is that the file has text stored in plain. Archive is being a bitch so i'll just drop these links

http://masterjorn.wixsite.com/mjtat/single-post/2019/06/10/Project-Extracting-the-English-GBA-ROM-from-the-SMT-1-iOS-App-Store-Release

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M-4B3ZI_XKAb6SM__9Jspj-2AteEB4mb/view

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947ff6  No.16823930

>>16823921

Not sure how much hand holding I'm going to need but I'm open to looking at the PS1 games since they are better than the SNES ones just for letting me crab walk. I saw that when I searched years ago and I recently "attempted" to find a way to port it with no success, GBA and other formats with no filesystem is a pain to work with. Not related but I tried undubbing the GBA Boktai games and it always turned out non-functional.

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66b975  No.16823955

Might I suggest something?

Considering that we're working on both fan translations and official translations, should we compile a list of games that you think are the worst offenders? Not even just for poz, but obvious re-writes in general. I have a couple games I want to add to this list:

Fan translation check: Daikaijuu Monogatari (Great Tale of Shell Beasts) (Already in the first several lines the translator re-writes rather than translates.)

Official translation check: Breath of Fire 1 (rumor has it Woosley axed out alot of stuff, maybe because of higher ups)

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578cd5  No.16823958

>>16823955

Fire Emblem Fates undoubtedly, woolseys translations can either make a game cheesy or slightly improve it ff4s spoony bard comment wasn't in the original Japanese version and ff6s so n of a submariner and some kefka lines were also not in the japanese version

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52b93c  No.16823968

>>16823955

>games that you think are the worst offenders

Anything by Working Designs.

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2271f4  No.16823977

>>16823955

I do have a few suggestions in mind:

<Official translation check:

♦ Working Designs: All games, but the most affected to my knowledge, and priority games, should be:

Lunar 1+2 (most of it is rewritten beyond recognition)

Popful Mail

Silhouette Mirage (but that deserves a translation of the Saturn version)

Alundra (bragged about a PlayStation Magazine editor "writing 40% of the game")

Magical Knight Rayearth (sexual jokes in kids games)

Albert Odyssey Gaiden

Dragon Force

♦ Jaleco USA: All of their games have basically made up text. Infamous for Totally Rad, but they handled other games even worse

Rushing Beat (beatem up trilogy on SNES)

Ignition Factor

♦ SETA USA: Most of their games were filled with self inserts and localization that replaces existing text.

Kendo Rush / Makeruna Makendo

Nosefurato (text is a bitch to extract, crap)

♦ Atlus USA: Evolved from gross incompetence and made up text (Soleil, Osman, Jack Bros) to overlocalized drivel very fast (Rhapsody, and then more modern examples). Suggestions are accepted.

♦ Enix USA: Bad grasp on Japanese + overlocalized editing. Their DQ efforts were censored, but LESS than recent DQ translations, and kino otherwise.

Illusion of Gaia (Prototype edit, Nintendo edit)

Brain Lord

Terranigma (technically NoA)

Soul Blazer (someone wanted to retranslate it, and got someone to redo the entire script. but didn't know item names so he made them up. This was used to discredit the entire effort. Maybe give that retranslation a review and salvage it too.)

♦ Square / Square Enix

Secret of Mana

Final Fantasy 7 / 8 / 9 (a LOT was changed in localizations, you know how Squall is an asshole, Barret's way of speaking, etc. but lesser details too. If possible we want to preserve the existing research made for Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger as well, and compare Woolsey and Slattery's scripts. The latter are still flawed because "Published by Nintendo" doesn't allow alcohol references, and Slattery put some memes to please Woolsey fans or attack fan translations, let's identify those flaws)

Super Mario RPG (VERY interesting case where he translates too literally (for established American Mario naming lore he sometimes respects and other times completely ignores) and sometimes the other extreme with entire scenes made up.)

Breath of Fire 1 + Breath of Fire 2 (including the fan translation, which got the "localization" treatment.)

♦ Castlevania series (metroidvanias, for the inconsistent monster naming. Fortunately uses standard encodings.)

♦ Nintendo series

Zelda : Alttp, Oracle, Twilight, ALBW (at least fix it to be uncensored like EUR languages), Breath of the Wild (at least the first person Link journal completely written out of the localization, as a starting point)

Fire Emblem : Blazing Sword, GameCube duology (both got way more edits than they should), and… might as well do a script dump of Awakening and Fates since most of it is pozzed. Echoes too just to check.

Advance Wars: All 4 GBA and DS games. Heavy rewrites.

Golden Sun: Very suspect rewrites.

♦ Sega: Not a lot of stuff changed overall, Bare Knuckle 3 aside.

All Shining Force games by Camelot.

Crusader of Centy (already have it)

Landstalker

Phantasy Star 4 (lots of changes)

♦ Hudson Soft:

Super Adventure Island 2 - the most insufferable localization I ever read. English text is longer by a factor of 5:1, this is excessive.

Super Bonk

♦ Jeremy Blaustein games (Konami, Valkyrie Profile 2, Star Ocean 2, Dragon Quest 7)

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2271f4  No.16823978

<Fan translation check:

Any fan translator outspoken about his political beliefs online should have his work double checked.

♦ Dynamic Designs: Any game edited by Wildbill in general. Daikaiju Monogatari 1 and 2, FEDA, and possibly other games.

♦ Aeon Genesis: Overall not as disastrous as the rest, but Tom parted ways with them because they edit too much + even I could tell some of their early efforts were dubiously translated, but maybe merely out of incompetence. The lead whined to Kotaku and ResetEra about the "toxic" SMT fanbase. Take your own conclusions. I have mostly figured out Live-A-Live and other games.

♦ J2E : I would rather not even bother extracting their English text, they're infamous for making up crap. But they make for a perfect example.

♦ DeJap : Tales of Phantasia ("fucks like a tiger" was the least of that translation's worries) , maybe other things as suggested.

♦ Project Naga : Fire Emblem 4 and 5. Localized naming lore was something, but most dialogue was affected too by the "editor".

♦ Saturn translations: Sakura Taisen, Lunar Magical School (won't bother with Utena, knowing that series they probably made sure to translate it as accurately as they could. if evidence to the contrary appears, i would still add it, of course.)

>>16823958

>woolseys translations can either make a game cheesy or slightly improve it

I dunno about personal preferences, but the "beloved Woolsey localization" is the same one HE admits he got many things wrong with it, and multiple scenes don't make sense anymore (Celes, Shadow's flashback)

Sure sure.. The guy worked under awful conditions, and does have some questionable opinions about localization (must hide the fact it's a foreign work by rewriting the hell out of it) but he didn't nearly overdo it to the same scale of current day localizers and in the end got the right idea he should rather develop his OWN game, which he did on the cancelled 64DD then joined Microsoft Studios… But I bet you if he commented objectively, anonymously, online, about his previous work, he'd be torn to shreds in some circles.

This is a research project to objectively assess if the source material was conveyed in full in localizations, something Final Fantasy scripts and Working Designs localizations fall far short of, but rabid elements of that fanbase intimidated previous research attempts "because it's a beloved localization and it's understandable people will feel heated when you attack their childhood memories"… Who the fuck cares about Resetranny Karens of the internet telling us what we are allowed to do? No one is robbing anyone their NoA approved localizations with millions of copies in circulation.

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2271f4  No.16823981

>>16823921

Just downloaded that, and… wow.

That megaten file is just over the size of a standard GBA rom, and has about everything needed for the English localization included as GBA assets. Tried to cut it to size in the hope it could load on a standard GBA emulator, but it doesn't seem the header is even in the correct place. Text uses ASCII and already visible in hex editors without any table shenanigans.

It's very useful for sure.

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52b93c  No.16823983

>>16823977

>All Shining Force games by Camelot.

I've played Shining Force 1 and 2 in both Japanese and English. I don't think 2 was that bad, though it did attribute dialog to Bowie while in the Japanese script he is strictly a silent protagonist. 1 had a terrible translation that removed a lot of story context though, like Max's backstory and Kain and Max being brothers.

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2271f4  No.16823989

>>16823921

>if i recall the person who claimed they would translate if was the guy who got harassed off twitter because another translator had been doing the snes version but hadn't released it for years despite being 80%-90% done eventually the fag got fed up and finished it but as to what happened with the PSX if was probably just cancelled or left on the side.

There was a mainstream sentiment for a while that every game that got translated twice was wasted effort, and that second translator is an asshole because he should translate instead <not so subtle stealth title request>. They'd pester those secondary translators and flame them so much they would drop the project because of all the hate. That secondary translator would then never honor those aggressive requests, because any basic common sense and 101 human psychology would have make that obvious.

That sentiment was so entrenched they would create forum rules to ban "zero day translations" (if you're working on a game that MIGHT be localized one day in the future, no matter how unlikely. claimed a lot of DS and PSP translations…) or "undubs" or "hacks that reuse other hacks or alter them against the original developer's wishes" (with very selective enforcement, as Goemon 3 showed) and. so. on. to ENFORCE that.

Want to translate Zero no Kiseki and Ao no Kiseki? Fuck you, Xseed is doing that. Wait someone is doing that but slowly? Damn. Wait, not a SECOND project? Stop you can't do that because that someone might do it after this one, and I'm pretending to care about him here. You know well how that turned out.

But after the glorious trashfire that was the cancellation of EVERY SINGLE TALES OF PROJECT (except Rebirth, still in development hell) because they were all claimed by a single centralized party, and that drama queen episode for Shin Megami Tensei: If, withheld 8 months to "punish the SMT fanbase" … every single shitstain who used to enforce this "rule" and gag more translators, now shut up forever.

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2271f4  No.16823992

>>16823983

Shining Force 2 had one of the few notable instances of religious censorship by Sega, though. They changed some books and removed a spell that inspects tiles (not sure..)

But it's still very serviceable, and nowhere near as bad as 1.

I still think the class names are atrociously translated.

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66b975  No.16823994

>>16823977

I'm curious what was changed in Brain Lord, I know the main character's hair color changed, and the name translations are wonky, but what else?

As for 7, there was a re-translated effort, look for the reunion patch or something similar, you can add that to the list too if desired. 8 needs a re-translation so damn bad, I would be willing to replay the game despite its bad mechanics.

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52b93c  No.16823995

>>16823992

>Shining Force 2 had one of the few notable instances of religious censorship by Sega

Oh I didn't even notice that. It's not like I compared the scripts or anything, I just use my memory of the English version to note anything that stands out to me while playing the Japanese version.

>removed a spell that inspects tiles

Not a spell, they removed the ability to open treasure chests during battles. There's only like one treasure chest that you can only get during battle though.

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2271f4  No.16824000

>>16823994

>Brain Lord

Mistranslated hints (go 5 steps instead of 3 steps) and obscured religious references (dark darkness of the dark) at least.

Other changes are the hair color, a pentagram somewhere, and the usual Enix USA difficulty tax.

>7

Reunion, yeah. Will be a useful addition.

>8 and 9

When Euro translations that change names randomly to be more "familiar" somehow read better, you know you screwed up. Those games deserve better.

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02bfd0  No.16824033

>>16823977

>Jeremy Blaustein games (Konami, Valkyrie Profile 2, Star Ocean 2, Dragon Quest 7)

I know a few changes by him in regards to the Shadow Hearts series, though I'm speaking more of what I've heard than having looked through the Japanese scripts myself.

>Renaming Urmnaf/Uru to Yuri

Shows a bit of research into calling to Yuri's mixed Russian/Japanese heritage to give people a name that calls to both while being more familiar, but a change nonetheless, and one that stuck for later games. Does have the effect of the making undub patch for the second game have an audio/text disconnect though (I don't recall SH1 having one). Ironically, Chaos Wars actually went with "Uru" here, but that just shows O3 Entertainment didn't even bother to do research (which kind of has to be done when handling a crossover game).

>Renaming Jinpachiro Hyuga to "Ben".

Less understandable than Yuri. Maybe the name was too long for the display in English? If so, why not call him "Jin" for short? It got reverted when Covenant came over, and a fair amount of western fans seem to regard "Ben" as a nickname in response.

>Halley Branckett

Mistranslated party member. Last name should have been Plunkett, being that he's Edward's kid, so clearly he didn't play Koudelka first (but then again, not a lot of people did, and Nautilus wanted to make the game feel mostly standalone despite being a sequel in light of its reception). Hard to say if his first name got mistranslated as well, as I'd assume Halley and Harry would probably both be written the same way phonetically in Japanese.

>Changes to the Currymen naming themes in Covenant.

For some reason he went with gosht (mutton, goat) instead of pork, and chingri (prawns) instead of beef. Murgh is at least equivalent of chicken. Maybe the other two weren't kosher?

>Screen text in Covenant's cutscenes not syncing with audio lines.

But that's probably less on him than whoever was responsible for insertion.

I'd also say one of the lines in Covenant along the lines of "Surely not in a safe, family friendly RPG like this…" is suspect due to breaking the fourth wall. But at the same time, it's also quite at home with the vibe of the series, and with Sacnoth/Nautilus being the sort of company that liked fourth wall leaning and even biting the hand that fed them (Aruze), I wouldn't put it past them having it in the original script as well. Other than those, nothing especially stood out to me as being clearly overly "localized", but certainly worth someone interested who knows Japanese looking into on the whole. Even From the New World, which still had Blaustein as the main translator despite the change in western publisher from Midway to XSEED. I get the feeling he was maybe only on the main script though (for the sake of continuity in a series with chronology), as there were quite a few monsters that I know of that didn't get their namesake caught (the most infamous being Shub Niggurath being called Jeb Niglas), and FtNW was XSEED's second game.

Kind of impressive they came over as well as they did though, at least my my knowledge of them. Some of the content in them certainly wouldn't fly these days, especially with them being Sony exclusive.

Speaking of Sony, I'd feel their older self-published games would certainly be worth investigating, so it seems a bit odd they're not on that list with Nintendo and Sega. Or, assuming that post didn't simply run out of space, is it just a well established fact, the way NISA isn't listed?

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52b93c  No.16824035

>>16824033

>Speaking of Sony, I'd feel their older self-published games would certainly be worth investigating

Legend of Legaia had a pointless difficulty bump for the western version, but I don't recall any major localization changes.

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02bfd0  No.16824038

>>16823978

Woolsey's an interesting case due to constraints of the time, and in some instances there's things he (and others) couldn't especially be faulted on, like lack of variable width fonts leading to trimming, or content standards of the system holders. But other stuff like character rewrites I'd assume him to indeed be to blame for. Did he technically just do translation, or did he also serve as script editor back then (assuming they even made the distinction)?

Possible resource here, at least for helping compare on the English end. There's a bunch of links to English transcripts for various games here. Not entire sure how thorough they are, (whether they're just main plot all players sit through, or include optional events, NPC text, etc), but might be of some use.

https://game-scripts.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:GAim4A/List_of_existing_Game_Scripts

Still, I suppose if people want to be really thorough, it might be best on learn how to extract displayed text from the games themselves on the researcher end, to make sure nothing's missed.

>>16823989

Rebirth team could really stand to post a "still alive" update to their altervista. Especially since when Absolute Zero went full faggot mode, they took down the forums they were mooching off of, making it harder to reach them. Kajitani's also apparently still picking at a few games, but they're not main series entries. Supposedly he found a translator recently named "Mr. Peese" to work on ND2. No clue if they're going to be any good or not.

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02bfd0  No.16824053

File: 389f56a30a0f4fa⋯.png (31.55 KB, 504x179, 504:179, horseshit you did.png)

>>16824033

>Screen text in Covenant's cutscenes not syncing with audio lines.

And by that I mean the screen text was often abridged from the actual voiced lines, not that it didn't lip sync or something.

>>16823977

Another company: 8-4. Granted, 8-4 can be forced into doing adequate work, but that's if the hiring company cares to put a leash on what they can do (XSEED used them for Wild Arms 5, for instance; don't recall complaints about how they did XF either). 8-4's gone on record as saying their favorite jobs have been ones where they're given near or total freedom as to how to handle the game, Baten Kaitos Origins (hired by NoA) being the one they had the most liking for at the time. Used to hear people many years back on /jrpgg/ call it the best work they ever did, but by 8-4's own sentiment, I now find whether it's actually accurate suspect. Especially after someone discovered the Japanese version had a female option for the player's spirit that wasn't present in the English version. As I'd assume it would just be the difference of having a he/she toggle set at the start of the game for when the player is referred to, it seems like cutting it would just be asinine.

>>16824035

Wild Arms 1 and 2 certainly don't have the best English scripts around (neither does ACF for that matter; Agetec broke about as much as they fixed, making the quality of both versions about an equal not great, and pic related from an interview being blatant lies). 2's an odd case though where in it feeling like the editor was asleep at the wheel, it got away with a LOT of stuff that wouldn't have even flown on the PS1 at the time, and under an "E" rating no less. Including but not limited to fade to black sex, incest (not the same occasion), and what amounted a double homicide of the siblings and abortion of the (possessed) fetus. I recall seeing something on a forum, not sure if it was gbatemp or rhdn at this point, of some people there wanting to retranslate WA2 and wanting the Japanese script as a starting point, but between the game content and modern fan translation climate, I honestly wouldn't trust anyone but anons here to both do a good translation and keep the content intact. Makes me wish I knew Japanese, or could help with insertion, as that's a series I really love, but what skills I do have wouldn't be of much use on either front at present.

Also recall hearing Legend of Dragoon had a pretty iffy English script, but I could be wrong. Don't know that much about it myself.

>>16821353

Another category to consider would also be content restoration and censorship removal. Some of which being just visual hacks, but there's others that would need some partial translation work. Not "full game script" tier in some cases, but some would need more than just a couple lines fixed. Like re-implementing and translating the skits in Tales of Eternia (which have the added issue of being textless in the Japanese versions, just like Phantasia), as that's something no one's either seen feasible, or just seen fit, to do.

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668a93  No.16824266

>>16823900

>>16823906

the sega cd version contains exclusive demons and a cathedral that isn't a horrible headache

the gba version is everything from the scd version in terms of content,plus visionary items and the compendium

the tgfx version is the snes version with 4 exclusive demons,some tokyo destinyland npcs and cutscenes,it's completely terrible in every regard

the psx version has no changes from the original snes version

>and if… itself speeds up the world of sloth cycles

only in easy mode

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52b93c  No.16824292

>>16824266

>the psx version has no changes from the original snes version

It has 3D dungeon graphics.

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578cd5  No.16824485

>>16824266

the psx version has a smoother dungeon crawling experience and has the fiend theme that was later in nocturne from what i remember. Most graphics are updated to match playstation standards. Basically as i see it a way to get the Game boy version translateable while retaining the playstation soundtrack would be great

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947ff6  No.16824601

>>16824266

Thanks for the explanation, I doubt we could port the translation to the GBA version though, methods posted in this thread work well with other games, not Atlus ones cause of their weird programming.

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947ff6  No.16825019

File: 5622b23d9b95e90⋯.png (125.54 KB, 846x835, 846:835, smt1.png)

Thought I share what I know so skilled anons can see what they can do with it and maybe, hopefully, we can finally play SMT1 and 2 with QoL improvements and extra content.

The text in SMT1 on GBA are formatted in a weird way so relative searching doesn't yield normal results, I have the rom open in YY-CHR and the font starts at 24D000, this should be the same in crystaltile2. There are smaller letters at 233000, I don't know where this appears but if I have to guess, it's for names, so your character, allies and demons. Now you think you can make a table by using the name creation screen and just cycle through each letter, this doesn't work, names are stored differently than the text you see in dialogue.

This might be helpful but I'm unsure how much the iOS game linked here >>16823921 has leftover source code that has pointers to where some things are placed in the GBA game, it's a source port afterall, from what I gathered when I asked for help, it's sort of helpful and might aid in helping find the dialogue font.

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ebc102  No.16825032

File: e58afd04b2bc667⋯.png (30.32 KB, 117x128, 117:128, e.png)

I did some more research on Fatal Labyrinth using the methods outlined above.

Here are the results. I put the addresses where each data structure (pointer table, or text data) begins and ends in the ROM. Use the "Offset" counter in the status bar of WindHex32 if you have trouble knowing where it starts and ends.

Fatal Labyrinth

286C-2895 #1 JP - POINTER

2896-2C69 #1 JP - TEXT

2C6A-2C93 #1 EN - POINTER

2C94-3281 #1 EN - TEXT

57CC-57D5 #2 JP - POINTER

57D6-59A1 #2 JP - TEXT

59A2-59AB #2 EN - POINTER

59AC-5CF3 #2 EN - TEXT

CA35-CC4B #3 JP - Text

CD5E-D13D #4 JP - Text

D186-D5DF #3 EN - Text

D62D-DD27 #4 EN - Text

EC82-EDCC #5 EN - Text

#1 : NPC lines

#2 : Last Floor cutscenes

#3 : Weapon, Monster names

#4 : Game messages

#5 : Credits

The pointer system for the NPC messages is straightforward to figure out, but that's not the case for item names, which use a different pointer system.

To figure that other system, the way to go would be to put a "surveillance bug" on the text, called a BREAKPOINT, that triggers whenever the game tries to access that text, and shows us which parts of the programming (in assembly) messed with it. Using debugger features in emulators (BREAKPOINT & DISASSEMBLE to check the present situation, TRACE / SAVE STAES for the past situation, and STEP for future situation) we can figure out that pointer system. Or anything in games, such as, but not limited to:

- Which game code checks for button combinations

- Which game code checks for good ending cutscenes, easy mode early game overs

- How and when the game calls graphics or text or enemy stats from the ROM

The game could be also not even using pointers. The text entries could be fixed width (SaGa Frontier, Super Mario Bros 3), or part of a scripting language (Ys V, Seiken Densetsu/Mana series), or the game could even calculate its pointers on its own (Nintendo R&D action adventure games on SNES)…

But enough about that.

Since we just want to extract the text and compare both versions, we'll try a lazier approach, and bother with these problems should we want to retranslate this game. I'll show you two different methods:

1- Proper method (for text blocks with pointers, so #1 and #2 ) - makes both clean extraction and reinsertion possible.

2- Crude method (for those without pointers, #3, #4, #5 ) - extraction only

Let's get started.

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ebc102  No.16825041

File: 8380b682a226abd⋯.png (33.98 KB, 256x720, 16:45, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 6f40d3139f5b20d⋯.png (56.47 KB, 256x720, 16:45, ClipboardImage.png)

File: e3a0c5d04ab759b⋯.png (5.88 KB, 256x256, 1:1, ClipboardImage.png)

>>16825019

>dat spanish scene name

lol

Anon, use CT2, 32 tiles per row, following offsets:

SMT1 JP GBA: 24CEEC, 263DEC

SMT1 EN IOS (megaten) has a similar font, but with this (third pic) in the end after the original font, exclusive to the English copy.

Relies a lot on Nintendo's stock LZ77 GBA compression, but only for graphics.

Text would be Shift-JIS (judging from the font) but it's not visible at first glance.

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947ff6  No.16825059

>>16825041

I'm really shit at this. Not sure if you still have everything there but is it possible to port the iOS translation to the GBA rom?

Not related but I found it funny you were able to get this quickly when namefags at romhacking couldn't do it.

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263032  No.16825078

>>16822103

>assembly

if you know how to hear paella, you should check this

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/DEZ80

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02bfd0  No.16825092

>>16824906

Wouldn't shock me, but it depends on the developer. Like, Shadow Hearts: Covenant pulls a chain double entendre about Kurando's Jutendouji form's sword and how his mom was quite impressed at catching him practicing with it (“He was swinging that big, hard thing around so roughly! I was just amazed to see what a man he’d become!”), but as Sacnoth had out-and-out dong monsters in the game prior to it, I'm much more apt to buy that having been in the original script despite the difference in ratings, than a WD-tier localization joke. Especially when, after realizing how what she'd just told the girl with a crush on him sounds, she quickly tries to shut her up with some fancy new clothes. But I can't say for certain myself, as I don't know Japanese.

Question for Baten Kaitos Origins though, is does it seem out of place for a Monolith Soft game? Certainly worth being combed over regardless if you ask me, due to 8-4's preferences and favoritism of it.

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008bbc  No.16825101

File: 1dc883d59285659⋯.png (113.48 KB, 920x789, 920:789, 191-1917870_a-very-hungry-….png)

I'm in a beginner stage of Japanese currently, but all of this is too much. I plan on helping you guys out once I get better. Butchered translations are not okay.

It's getting to the point where I just want to pirate translated games and just import the japanese ones if I want to support developers. This has happened forever, but when even fan translators start doing this, it's a sad situation.

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ebc102  No.16825118

>>16825059

>iOS translation

Good news is the pointers for the main story are in plain sight (4-byte pointers 1B194-1D2E3 followed by text, lower down there's misc english graphics and menu text) so extracting it is possible, should you finish researching its control codes.

>porting it to GBA rom (jp)

Not until we find the Japanese text to actually replace.

Once you find it, you have many possible routes. Either the dual letter per kanji solution, or hacking in a proper 1 byte routine in the game.

>this quickly

It's alright, i'm a scene oldfag, but a script kiddie nonetheless. Anyone could do it given enough experience.

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799fa4  No.16825142

>>16825092

>Question for Baten Kaitos Origins though, is does it seem out of place for a Monolith Soft game?

Based on first hand experience, for Monolith Soft as a whole no, but it's always worth double checking. If it was always a dick joke, but a different one based on Japanese puns, that shit's probably impossible to accurately translate and if it seems forced that would be why. It's a fucking miracle the one in Xenoblade 2 turned out as well as it did, thank god Zeke both is obsessed with a turtle and wears an eyepatch.

>>16825118

I'll just let you know that if you go forward with the GBA version somebody's going to bitch about it because it sounds or looks different to the original or whatever port they like best. I know that was a big problem with the GBA ports of the Final Fantasy games (this was years before the mobile versions which are just bafflingly bad). I know there were hacks to fix some sound and graphical problems, but that's probably beyond the scope of this project.

Although bringing up Final Fantasy also brings up the fact that Final Fantasy 5 has never really gotten a good translation. Like, FF4 has the DS version where, at least according to Clyde "Tomato" Mandelin's incredibly cursory look at it, seems to at least translate the story cut-scenes accurately enough. But FF5 is stuck somewhere between bad early (fan) translations and what's practically a giant joke translation for all the different translations it has. I wouldn't put it high on the list but it's definitely something to consider in the future.

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ebc102  No.16825201

>>16825142

>I'll just let you know that if you go forward with the GBA version somebody's going to bitch about it because it sounds or looks different to the original or whatever port they like best. I know that was a big problem with the GBA ports of the Final Fantasy games (this was years before the mobile versions which are just bafflingly bad). I know there were hacks to fix some sound and graphical problems, but that's probably beyond the scope of this project.

I'm not a SMT fan (more of a casual nu-Personafag), so my interest isn't high enough for that right now.

Even if I were to port this official localization script (I don't have any such intentions for now), I could care less about other's opinions about the port's quality. The translation is meant for the GBA codebase. If someone wants to fix its sprites to be like the version of their choice, or to port the Destinyland demons, they can – it's all compressed in Nintendo's stock LZ77 compression for which many user friendly tools exist.

>FF5 GBA is a joke translation

I kinda feared as much. You hear so many localizers go "It's a quirky, weird, funny foreign game, so that's free license to turn it into a 'self-aware' Z-rate comedy and write out all 'dull' story elements that stand in the way of my grand vision", latest such case is Heroland, but it would be disheartening if FF5 was treated that way too. Initially I thought its problem with the GBA translation was the memes on top of a competent translation by Slattery, but I never actually checked.

(will continue tutorial later, real life happened)

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947ff6  No.16825215

>>16825201

No problems.

If you do happen to port the script over then I'm sure many will be very grateful, no one wants to touch GBA SMT, no one wants to touch SMT in general. That P2EP translation sure is taking a while.

FF definitely needs to be looked at since SE's "localizations" tend to change a lot of things, the tumblr pronouns in Type-0 is a good example of this. I stay clear of the GBA versions simply because of the localization and censorship. This isn't helpful but if you guys ever need videos subbed for an undub or something then I'll lend a hand, I'm much better at modern formats, must be a while now but I ported the Neptunia retranslations to Vita.

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799fa4  No.16825226

>>16825201

Yeah, I was mostly talking about what you would consider to be memes, as far as the story goes they got the important emotional beats, but then there's also references to TMNT and Power Rangers in some semi-lighter story sequences. Tom Slattery is also the guy who did FF4 DS's translation so it's probably more or less the same shit if I had to guess. Mostly accurate except when it isn't.

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bb4a7b  No.16825228

>>16825101

Albeit there are capable people out there, as you improve you'll become disenchanted and any naive, idealized image you held of fan translation will likely be shattered. Lots of low-quality shit out there, official or otherwise. More bad than good in my own experience. Unfortunately a lot of people don't hold the same sentiment about butchered translations not being okay. Some seem to just be too stupid to even realize they're butchering it. It's been a sad situation the whole time.

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ebc102  No.16825237

>>16825215

At the very least I could extract the English script out of the iOS version for now. That way it wouldn't be lost, and could be useful to someone who is more "committed" to that. Tales of Phantasia has an English iOS version too, besides the GBA version, both need to be archived to a user friendly format.

Sorry if I sounded like a jerk above, but I'm not competent enough to figure out how SMT1 JP GBA's text is compressed (as you looked it up with relative search and found nothing, it likely is, but it's not the stock LZ compression) and far from the best fit to give it justice. But surely someone else can once that hurdle is overcome, using what we found so far in this thread and hopefully script dumps.

I do know of a (loosely) SMT game that's easily translatable, Puzzle De Call for GBA. It's a sequel to a puzzler on Game Boy and it's kino.

>P2EP translation

>sure is taking a while

cj_iwakura of ResetEra fame. Better temper your expectations.

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799fa4  No.16825242

>>16825233

Let me expand on the Xenoblade 2 example I mentioned in passing. From what I recall, in Japanese, one character insults another using the term "turtle head", a Japanese coloquialism meaning "dick head. The localization tackled it by calling him a "one eyed monster", an English coloqualism for dick. Tell me, if you saw somebody call somebody else turtle head in that video, would you have known it was a dick joke? Depending on how bad the localization was, they either unsubtly translated a dick joke at best, and made up a dick joke at worst. Not great either way.

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b33fb5  No.16825243

>>16825228

No, there are plenty of people–even anons–who just aren't all that put off by a bad translation. Some people just want the game to be playable, coherent, and not hijacked for anyone's political agenda. It's good, though, to see a group of people who feel strongly enough about something to take reasonable action about it.

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02bfd0  No.16825248

>>16825215

>That P2EP translation sure is taking a while.

At least there's one of his three projects finished, but I'm not sure what sort of quality the Sakura Wars patch has wound up being. Haven't seen anyone talking about having played it yet, at least from anons here or on the bunker, since it came out.

>This isn't helpful but if you guys ever need videos subbed for an undub or something then I'll lend a hand, I'm much better at modern formats, must be a while now but I ported the Neptunia retranslations to Vita.

Onimusha 2 still doesn't have an undub patch (whereas 1 and Dawn have native dual audio, and I want to say 3 had a patch for the PS2). Haven't played it, if I had to guess why, it might have to to do there not being any screen text during gifting and thus English players getting no verbal feedback if it were to be played in Japanese. Not exactly cutscene FMV subbing (it uses game graphics for them, at the very least), but perhaps something to consider depending on how they're actually stored.

>Neptunia

Did the retranslation for the DLC to 3 ever get done?

>>16825228

There's certainly a lot of people that place more value on "fun" than accuracy who enable rewrites. Also those that prefer overly Japanese elements be purged, as if afraid of what their friends or family will think of them playing something lewd or that just has anime visuals/writing. Sadly, I recall seeing a fair amount of those sorts many years back, before cuckchan had earned its moniker, even in what you'd consider story/potentially lewd favoring threads, like /jrpgg/. They didn't get called out much either. Wouldn't shock me if that's since become the majority there.

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02bfd0  No.16825250

>>16825248

>Haven't played it,

Having played it, I mean.

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947ff6  No.16825253

>>16825237

Agreed and thanks so much for the progress made so far.

It's fine, you've contributed a lot so far and much more than whatever romhacking.net provided. That's the hurdle for GBA SMT, wouldn't be an issue if it was another company but it's Atlus so it's needlessly difficult.

>Puzzle De Call

It looks pretty good, this makes me wish more of the Devil Children spinoff was translated, I heard the PS1 games were really good.

>ResetEra

Don't worry, it's already tempered, I don't have high hopes for that or Fate/EXTRA CCC. It's a shame because I really like the games.

>>16825248

>Sakura Wars

I've yet to play it, ran like ass on Yaba Sanshiro though.

>Onimusha 2 still doesn't have an undub patch (whereas 1 and Dawn have native dual audio, and I want to say 3 had a patch for the PS2). Haven't played it, if I had to guess why, it might have to to do there not being any screen text during gifting and thus English players getting no verbal feedback if it were to be played in Japanese. Not exactly cutscene FMV subbing (it uses game graphics for them, at the very least), but perhaps something to consider depending on how they're actually stored.

That's strange, I thought it had one. I'm slowly going through 3 mainly because I want the cutscenes to have subtitles, no ETAs though. I can take a look but no promises.

>Did the retranslation for the DLC to 3 ever get done?

No, unforunately I don't read or speak moon to help wth that but if it ever get's retranslated then I'll be happy to port it over if anyone still wants it.

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02bfd0  No.16825257

>>16825253

Yeah, for some reason it just doesn't. Also of note that 3's PS2 undub had to come from the PC version having dual audio, so maybe there's some sort of region check attempts to just go from the Japanese version might have failed or something? I know Tales of Eternia PS1 also doesn't have an undub either for some reason, meaning anyone that wants to play it English text/JP audio has to go for a patched PSP ISO (which has the effect of preventing co-op).

There's a wiki that lists stuff like dual audio and undub patches, as well as games that people would think have one or the other but don't. And I don't know how up to date/precise it is. Might still be of interest though.

https://japdualaudio-in-videogames.fandom.com/wiki/Frequently_asked_games_that_do_NOT_have_a_Japanese_audio_track_%28all_platforms%29

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947ff6  No.16825266

>>16825262

Fame and ego.

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f7a324  No.16825271

>>16825262

Fan translators do not like working on something already claimed by another translator, or a game that was already translated(unless it was extremely mangled, far beyond the level of working designs.) even if they're doing jack shit with it. It's a kind of hidden agreement, of sorts.

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f7a324  No.16825281

>>16825279

>https://e-hentai.org/g/1489013/30076873fa/

This applies to game translators, really. Mostly because nobody wants to put the time and effort involved in translating a game just for people to not give a shit, or somebody else stole their thunder.

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40bb12  No.16825282

>>16825279

>that dub

I don't think that one is even officially supported anymore, the main dub Amuro is Brad Swaile from the TV version.

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52b93c  No.16825303

>>16825242

>From what I recall, in Japanese, one character insults another using the term "turtle head", a Japanese coloquialism meaning "dick head

She calls him kame atama which is the same kanji as dick head (亀頭), but dick head is actually pronounced kitou. So she didn't actually use the word for dick head, but she said something similar without realizing.

They did a pretty good job of translating all that context.

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02bfd0  No.16825304

>>16825279

Anime/manga could make for a valid off-branch, and one that could make use of those with different technical skills than are useful for working with games (IE: typesetting, subtitle timing/creation) if it comes to providing retranslated episodes/chapters as an end goal.

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263032  No.16825387

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e16e9a  No.16825392

I have to disagree with >>16821929, the professional route is still open but it takes a lot more effort.

I'd join into this project as an EN←JP translator, but I'm a wageslave that uses all his weekdays to work and his weekends to rest. However I could work on weekends in some conditions.

It's kinda tough to be working directly for multiple Japanese 取締役 IRL, that's all I can say about my job for now.

By the way, I've translated a few doujins at Sadpanda since 2018 and just got a JLPT N2 certificate.

Unless the workload isn't anything heavy (like something that can be done 2 hours/week) someone in my position wouldn't probably even consider doing this. We have had some volunteer translators from /a/ and /animu/ that might join in, so anons might able to split the workload to small manageable tasks and attract other professionals to join.

Another way is to just set up a very long deadline, probably within scope of years.

The last one would be to get a fundraising for the translator that only accept participation from anons, but that would offend many people in some imageboards.

That's my $0.02.

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52b93c  No.16825397

File: 22d0565d2a6eb19⋯.jpg (122.7 KB, 996x720, 83:60, 22d0565d2a6eb196139cccf795….jpg)

>>16825392

>being a wageslave in japan

But why? Don't tell me you fell for the 3DPD meme.

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e16e9a  No.16825401

>>16825397

>being a wageslave in japan

>implying I work in Japan

The Japs work in my country. They set up branch offices where I live.

And no, it's nowhere in Europe or America.

>Don't tell me you fell for the 3DPD meme.

Shame on you for not doing it. The women are still relatively pure-hearted here.

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ff612f  No.16825433

File: 51dc2fdd351a0fd⋯.jpg (669.93 KB, 2556x1862, 1278:931, Osamu Tezuka.jpg)

>>16825401

>Japs work in my country

Brazil?

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134ba2  No.16825435

>>16825401

Huehuehuehuehue

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e16e9a  No.16825441

Just to clarify, I'm willing to help you guys, but I simply don't want to get 過労死'd.

Better make a good plan immediately, I'm available to work on this around 19 hours from now.

>>16825433

Nope.

By America I meant the whole continent, not just the US of A.

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ff612f  No.16825442

File: a763243ee3f9032⋯.png (652.13 KB, 960x960, 1:1, kiwi.png)

File: 56c6020aca2d189⋯.png (478.89 KB, 807x715, 807:715, the-violence-has-escalated.png)

>>16825441

NZ? AU?

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02bfd0  No.16825448

>>16825433

>Tezuka

Reminds me that someone on /animu/ mentioned some shit he wrote about a guy that gets turned into a dog by an STD he caught.

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e16e9a  No.16825460

By the way, what game should we start from?

If I can get a working copy of the target game before working on it I might be able to prepare myself better.

Also, is it any fun?

>>16825442

Sorry, can't give you any more hints about that. It's for my own safety.

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bb4a7b  No.16825804

>>16825248

There's a lot of different types of bad translators, I think that's the type I've seen least personally. Most often what I see is beginners who've just read their first manga or what have you and have been so embolstered by the experience they think they can suddenly translate. Some don't even wait that long, it's the first thing they try to do with the language. To sub-categorize, some of them are aware of and outright excuse their inability. It's okay that there's a few errors, I'm just a beginner. It's to be expected, they say, when you point out there's a translation error in every other line, if not every line. They might fuck up the first couple hundred projects they work on, but it's okay, because they're slowly improving. You might be surprised how often people fuck up simple things like the tense of a sentence, or even identifying the speaker. The next most common type I've seen are people who take machine translations and just fix up the English. Little to no actual Japanese knowledge. In conjunction with all the different types of flaws many fan translators have, a good chunk of them are also ESLs who need to work on their English.

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52b93c  No.16825824

>>16825804

>The next most common type I've seen are people who take machine translations and just fix up the English. Little to no actual Japanese knowledge. In conjunction with all the different types of flaws many fan translators have, a good chunk of them are also ESLs who need to work on their English.

It doesn't help that EOPs have no standards, which is why companies like SakuraGame who just machine translate games still make money.

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c72230  No.16825828

How long until Kotaku et al publish an article about us doing this?

Any bets on what they'll title it?

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633e77  No.16825838

>>16825460

You could check out Brain Lord for the SNES. There are roms out, not a whole lot of text, but it is a nice standard exploring game with some neat puzzles and hidden areas. It's not a large game either. The dungeons are better in this game than Zelda: LttP.

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766f99  No.16825877

>>16825460

OP here.

Fatal Labyrinth is a test for the sake of an easy text extraction tutorial.

We have enough materials here in this thread for new dumps of

>Makeruna Makendou - SNES (both versions)

>Brain Lord - SNES (both versions)

>Shin Megami Tensei - GBA (English port)

and a website with partial game transcripts from Japanese playthroughs.

The first game we start from is still undecided, but what about TLoZ Breath of the Wild and its Link's Journal that was written out of the localization? That one is a short part of the game, and sure to be interesting.

>opsec

really good reflex, anon.

>workload

Your average 25 hour 16-bit RPG has 3k+ lines.

A modern RPG will be in the 20k+ region.

To put things into perspective, this research project wouldn't necessarily retranslate all lines from scratch (unless the localization is particularly shitty, or just doesn't get it.)

Going over the entire script in both Japanese and English as a cursory read, and identifying if the line is

>okay

>mostly okay with some bull

>mostly okay but bull is too long

>incomplete out of technical limitations

>incomplete/different out of linguistic limitations (puns that required a major rewrite)

>incomplete because mistranslated

>incomplete because bull reasons

>REPLACED

>MISSING

>DUMMIED

, really goes a long way.

We would also need a way to get multiple opinions on a specific script, like an account system (wouldn't want a resetera drone to spam okay on every single dick joke in Rayearth)

The end result is useful for:

- a percentage of all of these categories. This number quantifies if the English script reflects the Japanese script in full or not. We can then assess which games are the worst affected and should be worked on first.

- priority for individual lines to know which ones need to be retranslated. From bottom of the list (dummied/missing) to up (mostly okay). "Okay" lines may be corrected if they can read better (inconsistent tone, wonky grammar, typos, etc…)

That translation status for each line gives the most priority to lines that aren't okay or mostly okay. Then it's lines that are "mostly okay", then if need be, lines that are "okay" but could read better

That, in my opinion, should make it manageable.

But there's also the games that need to be translated from scratch because they never would be otherwise, like the ultra-problematic Far East of Eden IV. We'll agree on them whenever we get the chance.

(note I intended in the above but derailed what i went for a bit, so i saved it for here:

This isn't a project to take SOUL out of game localizations or to validate SJW fantasies about accurate translations and why they need to die, like "honorific galore", "machine translation", "NES translation" …

Minor details ("Cloud-san", "tomboy boku", "authority tone yo") may be written in notes. Masterful wordplay that doesn't get in the way of a completely authentic translation, Frog's accent or its absence in Chrono Trigger, things like "Cosarnit!" instead of translating "Chikucho" to "May you have a flawed reincarnation in your next life", doesn't invalidate an "okay" rating as long as no kernel of meaning from each word in the original was left behind, or an attempt made to convey it.

That said, fuck Nintendo of America and their "rewrites" and "injected humor". They make me rage to no end. You know it's bad when in interviews about Drill Dozer's localization they say "I like Jill's character. We looked for ways to adapt her character in the English translation and she didn't need as much changes." … the mindset that localization has to ACTIVELY LOOK FOR THINGS TO CHANGE is precisely what poisoned vidya in recent years and what al of this is against.

)

For now, I have been mostly an idea man, but I'll produce sample scripts for what we're going for.

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bb4a7b  No.16825897

>>16825824

Agreed. I really don't understand the mindset that thinks a literal machine translation is acceptable because it's "better than nothing at all." I understand being worried about less translations or that one work they like not being translated, but at that point you might as well be reading something completely different; you're not enjoying the original work the way the author created it. Not to mention there's a chance they're getting shut out of an actual good translation by the type who doesn't want to work on it because of the existing translation but that otherwise might have.

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f7a324  No.16826564

>>16825937

>How and why it ended up as a dub track in the torrent I pulled them from is anyone's guess.

Typically the encoders will add those kinds of things in if they exist and aren't Sonic X levels of butchered..

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321ea5  No.16827527

File: 68382e7d8562512⋯.png (275.26 KB, 1120x794, 560:397, ClipboardImage.png)

Continued from >>16825032

Sorry everyone for being late. Let's get this last part of the tutorial done and dump Fatal Labyrinth's script.

First of all, let's go over dedicated tools to extract the text.

Clean method - extraction/reinsertion

Kruptar (has english): http://www.magicteam.net/download.php?id=1&file=programs/kruptar7/Kruptar.v7.1.1.17.rar

Pointer Tables: https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/502/

(command line: these can be a bit intimidating at first, but it's a matter of preparing a settings file and a bat file. You double click the bat, it generates the script dump or reinserts it. Ideal for bigger games with multiple text files.)

Cartographer (extraction): https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/647/

Atlas (reinsertion): https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/224/

abcde (both, new and didn't try it, supposedly even better): https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/1392/

Crude method - All of the above, plus WindHex32 (edit>dump text to file).

For now, I will be using Kruptar.

So what we will need today is the following (the above will be useful for OTHER cases)

Kruptar tool:

Game rom: http://www.magicteam.net/download.php?id=1&file=programs/kruptar7/Kruptar.v7.1.1.17.rarhttp://www.gametronik.com/site/fiche/nimd/Fatal%20Labyrinth%20(USA,%20Europe)/

Table file: https://anonfile.com/t2AbHaR2nf/FatalLabyrinthJapan_tbl

Our own research on pointers in this game: >>16825032

Will make this quick.

New Project

Project1

kpSourceROM = original rom to extract text from

kpDestinationROM = new rom to insert text to

(you insert with the green "play" icon, after you fill in the right text field with the new text, but that's for later)

kpCodePage = 932 Shift-JIS, we use a shift jis table.

Tables

New Table

Table 1 > Load from File > we load our tbl file

String Terminators > 00 (our end control code)

CLRF Codes > FF (our line break code)

Characters: just check if everything is there

You'll need to define a separate table for English roms, Japanese roms, and if you're doing your own translation romhack, your new encoding.

For now we only need one, since it has both EN and JP characters.

Now, please refer to our research. We'll be using it right now.

2C6A-2C93 #1 EN - POINTER

2C94-3281 #1 EN - TEXT

Groups

New Group

Text Insert Range > Add Item > 2C94-3281

(why we're doing this? for an eventual reinsertion we need to insert only in the valid text areas otherwise we'll overwrite other game data and corrupt the game. btw if you found an area of free empty rom space, add it here, so that you can insert text there as well).

List of Pointers > Add item

Use the values in the screenshot. Explained:

ptSrcTable / ptDestTable = TBL files used for extraction and insertion

ptReference = the pointers start counting from address 00, so we leave that h00 (note the h before the hexadecimal address, for everything in Kruptar (except Text Insert Range) we need to add that h)

ptBIG_ENDIAN = YES for megadrive, n64, and some rare cases.

We'll now try the clean method. That means we'll use pointers.

set ptPointerSize to 2

Right Click List 1 = Add pointers

StartOffset: h2C6A

FinishOffset: h2C93

If we wanted the crude method, we wouldn't be able to reinsert as well as we wanted, but if the goal is to extract that's good enough

set ptPointerSize to 0

Right Click List 1 = Add pointers

StartOffset: h2C94

FinishOffset: h3281

That's it.

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d30c14  No.16827571

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>16821358

>>16821384

>>16822218

>>16822469

>>16823968

>>16823977

>>16823978

>>16825271

Working Design were the best translators you pathetic incels. They actually made the games funny, cool, and hip with the American cultural references that were inserted. Instead of that neat stuff along with releasing games with cool stuff added and making things actually challenging, you incels want to have easy games with boring, old, racist, and homophobic translations. You're just set out on trying to ruin the memories of the real fans and collectors who were there when those games came out and don't care about fun.

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321ea5  No.16827582

File: 72c57f493eb874d⋯.png (128.18 KB, 812x298, 406:149, ClipboardImage.png)

File: c7b5859070bda3d⋯.png (17.3 KB, 270x520, 27:52, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 7da155b78872799⋯.png (30.25 KB, 443x722, 443:722, ClipboardImage.png)

Let's now convert this to a csv file.

Select all entries extracted (21 NPC messages)

Save to file (Ctrl+F2) icon.

Result is a text file like in image 2.

(cp932 is code page for shift jis, not somethin' illegal)

To convert that to csv, I'll open it in Notepad++ and do a couple of search+replace operations. (If any anon knows how to do regex with a bat file, that will make it really faster)

Notepad++

Search>Replace

Search mode: Extended mode

Match whole word only: disabled

" > ""

{END}\r\n\r\n > "\n"

and remove cp932 and the \r\n (linebreak) after it, and replace with "

Save as csv.

And here it is: https://anonfile.com/16ReM2S5na/List1_csv

I'm trying do the same with the corresponding Japanese text block, and merge the two in Excel or LibreOffice. But JP text becomes mojibake in the process.

Any suggestions are welcome.

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321ea5  No.16827606

For reference:

https://anonfile.com/7ckdN6S2nb/List1_JP_csv

>>16827571

It's probably a falseflag, but I'll bite.

I was there when the Japanese publisher entrusted them with Daisenryaku and they, Working Designs, talked to american newspapers how the game is nazi bait and how they're gonna donate to holocaust museums a few dollars from each copy to make up for that. To no one's surprise, the game bombed and not a single game was localized after that, except for one set in the middle east with a playable Israel years later.

That series never recovered overseas from that massive sabotage. You would expect that bullshit from yellow journalism, not the game's OWN WESTERN PUBLISHER, and for a milquetoast war sim not unlike other western developed markets at the time.

Speaking of incels, who actually sees a game (Magical Knight Rayearth) with little clearly underage girls, whose main draw is a GOOD, beautiful first-party Zelda clone by Reiko Kodama with bonus female protagonists, and goes "hmmm, what this game definitively need is JOKES HOW BADLY THIS CHILD WANTS TO GET NAILED IN THE ASS, EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY INSPECT RANDOM ITEMS IN A ROOM" ?

That singlehandedly ruined the game for me. To think that Working Designs are playing virtue signaling with Hardcore Gaming interviews why they didn't pick up Lunar Magical School (which a HG101 editor now edits the fantranslation of, to be "less problematic" than the older direct fan translations made by -surprise surprise- Tom, who they attacked earlier this week)

As the saying goes, the best disinfectant is light.

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52b93c  No.16827614

>>16827606

>a game (Magical Knight Rayearth) with little clearly underage girls, whose main draw is a GOOD, beautiful first-party Zelda clone by Reiko Kodama with bonus female protagonists

You sold me on this game, maybe I should try it.

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f24223  No.16827622

>>16821358

>Guy fixing Working Designs' trash got bullied onsite and offsite

Do you have any examples of the kind of shit they pulled? I want to know how far they went to prevent someone from touching their shit localizations.

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f7a324  No.16827638

File: 833d1251c27ec7d⋯.jpg (30.22 KB, 480x360, 4:3, well are you.jpg)

>>16827606

>I was there when the Japanese publisher entrusted them with Daisenryaku and they, Working Designs, talked to american newspapers how the game is nazi bait and how they're gonna donate to holocaust museums a few dollars from each copy to make up for that.

>>16827622

>Do you have any examples of the kind of shit they pulled?

Well it's not fan trasnlation, but they bullied Xseed into using the original SSSC WD script for that Lunar remake.

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321ea5  No.16827646

>>16827622

Gaijinworks (Working Designs revival) had forums where the existence of the restoration project was pointed out. NeoGaf soon had a similar topic. Vic Ireland (also on neogaf) raged, and so did his fanbase, that someone would even begin this project.

So they spammed the RHDN thread, stalked the romhacker (who never did anything more than research the changes, translations included, and fix only programming or capitalization sabotage - and promise to help anyone who wants to get a retranslation started) on site and offsite, reverted his TCRF submissions, went to him in RHDN and demanded he removes the same information from his personal website because "it's disrespectful to WD fans and their childhood memories".

In the end, he had enough and just stopped, making it clear it was because it wasn't worth the bullshit but that he still stands by his opinions. The romhacks were never uploaded formally on RHDN, and may be one day purged from their file hosting services conveniently. He's helping with Madou Monogatari translations right now.

You know things like

"paying for the save option in Lunar 2"

"stat scaling in Exile 2 is so ramped up it's mathematically impossible to finish the game if you grind too much to survive the overpowered small fry enemies"

"that health meter in Popful Mail doesn't mean anything, you die in one hit in a game not balanced for that"

"Silhouette Mirage now has mandatory grinding and backtracking or otherwise bosses are impossible" (plus completely different plot. He intended to fix non-plot related crap but they "convinced" him to drop it all long before then)

That's just gameplay sabotage, none of the other horrible localization changes with the text (i love my incest jokes in Lunar and 40% rewritten alundra script, hmmm) and it still was too much for them to tolerate someone online fixing it.

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321ea5  No.16827657

>>16827638

>Well it's not fan trasnlation, but they bullied Xseed into using the original SSSC WD script for that Lunar remake.

Not exactly. Xseed only used the original voice actress for the songs, and followed WD's naming conventions for the main cast, but they translated the PSP remake more or less true to form.

Vic Ireland was enraged that "nobody actress from a church choir" double crossed him in a work he didn't oversee from text editing to voice directing, and amplified fan disappointment with the port's quality (similar to Ubisoft and the GBA version) mudding the waters between which criticism is about the localization and which is about the remake's quality.

Ultimately, when GameArts used the Xseed remake script for their own remake on iOS, they were convinced by "fans", as well as Vic Ireland donating his script out of license fees, to use a less accurate, more politically incorrect script made for a version that had plot changes from this remake. Not that Vic cares much, Lunar 2 on PS1 was a copy-paste of the Sega CD script even though many scenes were updated in Japanese. He even pointed that out, but only to throw an ex-employee under the bus for it.

Honestly the more I looked into their history, the more I despised him.

Who the hell goes for "problematic" games like Far East of Eden IV and Idolmasters thinking about all the ways he can rewrite the hell out of them, instead of a legitimate sale pitch and marketing plan? Or "if we do Class of Heroes and more Summon Night games they will have more Clinton jokes just in time #ForHer in 2016? That's just cancer.

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c817c2  No.16827661

File: b838daad946a8a9⋯.png (166.26 KB, 479x1379, 479:1379, Silhouette_Mirage_–_Hardco….png)

>>16827622

How abut Hg101 themselves complaining about the shit they pulled on a game.

http://archive.ph/bjJvU

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321ea5  No.16827673

>>16827661

They're friends.

Silhouette Mirage and Exile 2 are soft targets, because they admitted fault with those. Everything else is perfection incarnate.

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f7a324  No.16827674

>>16827646

>Gaijinworks (Working Designs revival) had forums where the existence of the restoration project was pointed out. NeoGaf soon had a similar topic. Vic Ireland (also on neogaf) raged, and so did his fanbase, that someone would even begin this project.

They still exist if you want to look all this up yourselves. Though the company appears to be more or less dead, their last release never materialized(and the publisher's website hasn't been updated in god knows how long) and the man himself hasn't been heard from in years, it's only known he vaguely exists because the website shitted itself once and they bugged his kid on Facebook into bringing it back.

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321ea5  No.16827681

>>16827674

Rumor is his health failed him these last few years. Best of wishes for recovery, of course, but no respect for the bullshit he pulled off.

Everyone will want to grab these asap so we have a set of uncensored base game copies suitable for text reinsertion, in the case we ever do a restoration. Those are patches, but applying them is a pain in some cases.

https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=23436.0

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c817c2  No.16827686

>>16827673

Soft or not, it's still clear and admitted evidence of WD meddling with a game outside of translation.

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321ea5  No.16827859

File: 77f31ee44c427ac⋯.jpg (544.79 KB, 738x736, 369:368, 1557967851068.jpg)

Back on topic, anyone has ideas how to convert the Japanese csv file to a more Excel friendly format without messing up the line breaks?

This one here: https://anonfile.com/7ckdN6S2nb/List1_JP_csv

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321ea5  No.16827862

File: 31e11e3d3511d48⋯.png (46.21 KB, 734x717, 734:717, ClipboardImage.png)

Current status for Fatal Labyrinth.

Other than the mojibake situation, it's as good as done.

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321ea5  No.16827910

File: 2aeaa22bd0961f2⋯.png (66.44 KB, 785x681, 785:681, ClipboardImage.png)

This really sucks.

I found a way to do this using Google Drive, but I'd rather not rely on Google services for something as essential.

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321ea5  No.16827918

File: 272fa3e2c6656a9⋯.png (89.88 KB, 828x567, 92:63, ClipboardImage.png)

When saving from Google Sheets to Microsoft Excel (xls), all the line breaks are destroyed for some reason no matter what.

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fce19e  No.16827922

>>16827862

Man, I liked Fatal Labyrinth. Why was this chosen for the project?

Also I should start learning Japanese.

How long does it take, roughly, to be able to play read and write simple sentences that might be present in early games?

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321ea5  No.16827929

>>16827922

>Why was this chosen for the project?

It wasn't censored or anything to my knowledge.

Used purely for didactic reasons as it was good to illustrate concepts needed for later to extract other games, and because its script is short and worthwhile.

Nice to see someone who likes it, haha.

>How long does it take, roughly, to be able to play read and write simple sentences that might be present in early games?

Not fun and not worth the effort, unless the game text is graphical or needs to be transcribed.

Extracting the data from the game files is far more efficient and covers everything, including rare situations even paid playtesters would struggle to find its text.

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b33fb5  No.16828175

>>16827582

>>16827859

Have you folks considered OmegaT or some other software for managing the translation files? It'll have a lot of features you don't want, but it might be able to handle the raw text without butchering line breaks and whatever. Or it might do a much worse job. I've only used it superficially.

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52b93c  No.16828196

>>16827922

It takes a few years to learn enough to play games, but it's worth it.

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52b93c  No.16828234

On the topic of Working Designs, how badly did they butcher Growlanser 2 and 3? I'm playing through Growlanser 3 at the moment, and it's a great game, but strangely I never hear any discussion about it on sites like this.

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2a1739  No.16828325

Nvm, LibreOffice seems to fix the problem with csv files for JP scripts. Expect more updates soon.

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c50bc6  No.16829109

>>16825041

I tried to get most of the kanji in that image, but wasn't able to get them all, the ones I didn't get are probably rare. Seeing these in context can help disambiguate because they are really squished, also, if we can get part of the word, we can look up the words that contain those characters and determine which it is.

No. KK Tel 檜棍霆偃蟲痺*****

・ ・ ・ ・ ・ ・ ・・・・亜唖娃阿哀哀愛

挨姶逢葵茜穐悪握渥旭葦芦鯵梓圧斡

扱宛姐虻飴絢綾鮎或粟袷安庵按暗案

闇鞍杏以伊位依偉囲夷委威尉惟意慰

易椅為畏異移維緯委胃衣謂違遺医井

亥域育郁磯一壱溢逸稲茨芋鰯允印咽

員因姻引飲淫胤蔭院陰隠韻吋右宇烏

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947ff6  No.16829257

Not to pile on more work but any anon experienced with sappy (GBA audio) ripping?

Been looking to undub Boktai for years now and in my latest attempt I figured out that sappy was ripping the song weirdly so it sounds wrong as a midi so whenever I reinsert it, it sounds wrong in game. I'm not even sure if Boktai uses sappy or an alternative sound format, I can play the sounds fine but can't rip it without having the midi sound wrong. I can upload the tools I found if any anons need it.

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bb4a7b  No.16829263

>>16829109

蜈髑髏㍽?

?劃

Maybe 竃? Closest I can manage.

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f96241  No.16829272

>>16829109

OP here, please stop while you still can.

That image was a partial font dump, and using a known encoding (Shift-JIS). There's no need to transcribe it to produce the Japanese SMT GBA script dump.

I posted it to help the other anon with his font question.

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f96241  No.16829274

>>16829257

Would undubs be worthwhile to include in the scope of this project?

No website wants to carry them on nowadays thanks to dub fags.

Not a single company even complained or caused this.

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947ff6  No.16829311

>>16829274

I would like it to simply because dubfags always throws a tantrum whenever someone, quite rightly say they want their Japanese games to include the original Japanese voice track.

It's somewhat low effort so someone with limited skills like me can work on with few issues but the more programming it requires the more hand-holding I'll need, I'm very much a script and tool kiddie.

I've yet to see a single company send a C&D, DMCA or anything for undub projects, the only complaints are from dubfags.

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02bfd0  No.16829357

>>16829274

>No website wants to carry them on nowadays thanks to dub fags.

Is that why you can't usually find straight up audio patches? I mean, I know places that have prepatched game files, but it's usually very tough to actually find the undub itself.

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b6aa8b  No.16829359

>>16829274

wasn't there a place for undubs called nicos blog or something? whatever happened?

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02bfd0  No.16829364

>>16829359

They still have them. Some weeks back they finally reuploaded the one for Wild Arms 5.

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f96241  No.16829386

>>16829359

Undubs used to be on sites like gbatemp, ps3 modding sites and the like. Small modification patches with just the needed audio data.

Now you have to download the entire game again from piracy blogs which may get shut down at any moment, with no unified place.

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52b93c  No.16829395

>>16829386

It makes sense that they wouldn't want to host the audio files though, since that's copyrighted material.

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f0df0e  No.16830207

>>16829395

A multi-step "transplant" patch format could resolve the issue.

>first step extracts the audio

>second step builds a .bps patch from the audio using an index of the dubbed game

>third step patches the dubbed game using the .bps patch from step 2

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947ff6  No.16830222

Just a thought but it would be great if we have a site/page to host the patches, undubs etc, our efforts are for those that prefers a faithful translation, Japanese voices, anti-censorship etc afterall.

And to show I'm not just talk but I have actually have some releases under my belt, here is an undub for the USA PSP ISO of Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions, it includes the slowdown fix, I tested it just at the beginning in PPSSPP and it runs normally as far as I can tell.

https://www115.zippyshare.com/v/Z46gn8Pg/file.html

An explanation before someone is confused at what's happening, the Japanese videos have no voice acting, probably out of respect of the original devleopers so the original was just text and sound, I just muxed the Japanese audio with the English videos and here you go, it's similar to Persona on PSP where some of the cutscenes have no voice acting. Enjoy.

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f0df0e  No.16830449

>>16830222

I don't suppose you could hack in an aspect ratio fix as well? Pillarboxed 4:3 is fine, but native 16:9 would be awesome.

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39ee5c  No.16830476

OP here.

>>16830222

Neato, anon. That would be something so lovely to have.

I did one for a few obscure regional releases on DS and PS1 before (like Captain Tsubasa DS, mute in the european version, but who cares about that now lol)

The most ideal way to release those would be like >>16830207 said is a way to extract the files (ndstool for DS, but are there command line equivalents for other systems?) and repack them.

If we had talented people like the one who did Growlanser 4's undub, we could even do things like adding Tactics Ogre's Saturn voice acting to the PSP version.

A website that compiles all things of interest to weebs interested in information and accessibility to Japan only content (even cut preorder content, exclusive items, cheats to unlock them, etc) would be cool to have, as now the drive to limit what's allowed is mostly successful.

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947ff6  No.16830656

Here's a newer version of the undub with fixes, there was some freezing that would happen after a cutscene, this has been fixed and as per >>16830449 request, restoring the original aspect ratio but maintain the full screen space instead of what the previous patch by Archaemic which made it 340x240 with huge letterboxes, mine makes it 385x272 which only has pillarboxes. Apply to the US ISO you can get from the-eye, check PSP ISO by number and you'll find it.

https://www82.zippyshare.com/v/IyhWeBzp/file.html

Some notes, the aspect ratio is 99.99% accurate, it's larger by 1 pixel therefore not fully centered, you'll only notice it if you're really autistic though, it's impossible to be 100% accurate, the hex values are either short 1 pixel or larger by 1 pixel. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with this release so enjoy Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions how it was meant to be played.

>>16830476

That's how the undub/uncensor for Xenoblade Chronicles X was handled, you have to get copies of both the Japanese and US release and the program patches it, it's not ideal as the games were 20GB each but it's all "legal" per se.

Speaking of PSP games, I would love to restore Summon Night 5's voices as, of course, fucking Gaijinworks ripped them out for their localization. Not sure if Class of Heroes 2 had any issues but SM5 was reported to be filled with memes and shit.

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02bfd0  No.16830670

>>16830476

>A website that compiles all things of interest to weebs interested in information and accessibility to Japan only content (even cut preorder content, exclusive items, cheats to unlock them, etc) would be cool to have, as now the drive to limit what's allowed is mostly successful.

If I had money for hosting/domain/costs, I'd consider making something like that since I've got some html and css skills (albeit more what was "in" between 2007 and 2013 or so than what's pushed as current, for better or worse), and it would let me do something to contribute. But I wouldn't want to ask for donations from anons to get something up, especially after the whole "never preorder an imageboard" fiasco that Infinity Next proved to be. Very much a valid lesson there.

>>16830656

>I would love to restore Summon Night 5's voices as, of course, fucking Gaijinworks ripped them out for their localization.

Would be nice, but wouldn't it make for a disconnect with what's on screen text? Which isn't to say Gaijinworks did a remotely good job with the script, just that I know when I played the likes of Tales of Hearts R (the last Tales game 8-4 handled, with probably zero oversight from Bamco because they didn't care to bring it west to begin with), things like English name changes became all he more irksome due to Japanese audio. On the other hand, maybe that would be a good first step towards getting someone that cares enough to retranslate it. I seem to recall hearing it was the effort to give Ar Tonelico II a full undub (because the dual audio NISA gave had shit cut out to save space because they were too cheap to go DVD-9 or multidisc as a format, the way Sega later forced them to for Sakura Wars V) that helping lead to the Project Metafalica retranslation.

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f0df0e  No.16830673

>>16830656

Pretty sexy. Thanks!

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947ff6  No.16830674

>>16830670

A full retranslation would better, it's Gaijinworks, everything they and their predessor Working Designs did needs to be fixed, it's just something to add to the todo list. If more skilled anons are willing to help with script and tools, we can also get undubs for the difficult platforms like Sega CD and Saturn.

Something to note but we should archive documentation for all our projects, file formats and whatnot so it doesn't get lost either, there are so many useful tools that aren't updated anymore.

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8a083b  No.16830712

File: d560368ab715003⋯.png (378.56 KB, 652x2556, 163:639, 1580149723757.png)

File: 6bd97e8bf7ad4b4⋯.png (1.58 MB, 987x1907, 987:1907, TRAN5.PNG)

File: 1663321d221e495⋯.png (202.02 KB, 574x687, 574:687, tran4.PNG)

File: bccdb2e46c030f3⋯.png (197.21 KB, 512x540, 128:135, tran3.PNG)

File: e8731c3bd436a7b⋯.png (422.85 KB, 518x808, 259:404, tran2.PNG)

For future reference. hg101

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9512a8  No.16830721

File: 4a77b56f1f8b8be⋯.png (13.51 KB, 355x85, 71:17, dds crime.png)

>>16830712

this too

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ff612f  No.16830723

>>16830712

"Games have nearly always been tied to politics". What is it with faggots pulling this shit constantly?

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9512a8  No.16830725

>>16830723

Or "translations always have been changing stuff because nipponese is impossible to convey without massive content cuts and memes and changing authorial intent and tropes, and it's an outrage when this doesn't happen"

The conservative argument brought to you by the censorious not-conservative not-soccer moms of the year of our lord 2020.

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27a23a  No.16830743

File: d8fe15c0baad6a0⋯.png (39.87 KB, 508x314, 254:157, f2e.png)

>>16830723

I notice people of the progressive persuasion say this a lot. It falls in line with the general "the personal is political" philosophy.

I live in a ghetto, man. I'm not some privileged urbanite with a degree their parents paid for who lives in a studio apartment in a 95% white neighborhood.

I play games to relax, not get reminded of how fucked everything is, I live that reality everyday.

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9512a8  No.16830750

>>16830689

There was one such website I used to use, but for pixel bitmap fonts as low res as what's here, I found it actually FASTER to identify the radicals on my own selecting them one by one on jisho then copy pasting.

I tried with multiple zoom factors, black on white, adding many spaces between the kanji, isolating them one by one (utterly failed that one), and in the best cases I got a failure ratio of 30%, and it would be mixed in a wall of kanji and hard to spot that way and you'd start to find out when the jisho dictionary queries are totally wacky. With a human, that failure ratio is something like 1,4% in a +1100 kanji sample.

There's no OCR yet trained on low resolution Japanese fonts. Retroarch's results are disastrous for this very reason.

For higher resolution fonts, it's likely the game uses more modern practices such as a standard font, so you don't need an identification the first place.

You also raise a good point that kanji identification OUT OF CONTEXT is a tedious task but...

Presentation is key. A wall of kanji is intimidating for sure, but displaying them one by one and requesting user input to complete the table becomes a lot more like a kanji quiz.

That still doesn't make the contributor immune from gestalt crisis because of too many kanjis in succession so the brain shuts down completely, which is the case for people conditioned by the Japanese language. However the Chinese hanzi use the exact same unicode values on computers for Japanese kanji, which would also make chinese learners definitively useful for this step (at least for common hanzi/kanji).

If we want to help making it kanji identification FROM CONTEXT, that's not an entirely lost battle either...

There's three approaches that can alleviate the problem a tiny little bit.

Let's take this shitty sentence as an example: 私はペンです。本当に。

1/ With a partially identified encoding (for just the kana), we can use placeholders like [kXXXX] for kanji instead of their actual ideograms in the TBL file, and ultimately we get something like this in the textual script dump:

[k0200]はペンです。[k0235][k024F]に。

2/ This one is a bigger pain in the ass to actually implement on a dynamic website.

As you could have deduced on your own by now from my previous posts, the font graphic + the raw hex data for the text, are enough to produce a GRAPHICAL representation of the sentences.

It would appear like 私はペンです。本当に。

but it would be a low resolution graphic, using the exact same font as the original game (japanese game fonts are grids, so they're easy to cut and assemble, unlike western fonts assembled in bmfont that are jumbled messes of letters stuffed in a small texture) and more importantly, the text wouldn't be selectable or searchable. It's not even text.

3/ Typing sentences as they appear ingame.

The context, voice acting, things like that, would help clarify which kanji are there.

That context is completely lost in script dumps or other approaches.

However the fatal flaw of this, is that gaming is an interactive medium with a shitload of variables, and you simply won't get the full set of possible events with a single playthrough. It helps, but it's impractical and even more tedious than other options.

Let's go over those.

Number one produces a complete script dump, but with gaps.

Number two produces a visualization of the text as it would appear ingame, but how useful it is is very limited.

So... something like (1) with an option for updating the table with missing kanji, and a visualization (2) offered as reference, could help.

>romhacking experience

That can mean a lot of things.

In this thread, I outlined the few steps needed for basic text extraction (and reinsertion, but without bothering about other factors), which should be enough to democratize at least the initial sub-goal of producing comparisons.

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d6cdc8  No.16830766

>>16830750

Usually, the way it's done is to find the font. The game's special encoding almost always matches the font. And the font will usually be either close to the JIS X 0208 order (possibly with cuts and additions) or will introduce kanji in order of use (forming some real words). So kanji recognition is generally not that much of a showstopper if you really can do a script dump. Someone who knows this can often produce the table in an evening or two with only a decent (not bad, but not great) grasp of the kanji.

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9512a8  No.16830776

File: 0b5940c3931e085⋯.png (263.52 KB, 411x467, 411:467, 1568260094004.png)

>>16830766

I mostly agree with you, save for some points I feel the need to comment on.

>The game's special encoding almost always matches the font.

The font helps, yes, but i should clarify it's not always safe to assume it will be a direct match with the encoding.

>So kanji recognition is generally not that much of a showstopper if you really can do a script dump.

It's a chicken-and-eggs situation there.

If the text encoding is custom, then you NEED the kanji recognition so that making a complete script dump is possible, to begin with. Sure you CAN do one with lots of placeholder characters, but that's not very… useful in kanji heavy games where you end up with only a few particles visible.

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9512a8  No.16830817

File: 6b8d9cf7210f3cf⋯.png (32.2 KB, 233x575, 233:575, ClipboardImage.png)

>>16830785

>I was about to post a wall of text, but then I realized that it hinged around the idea that you had to have a way to deal with games where extracting the text is impossible, which also implies insertion is impossible which means it's probably pointless to even bother until you have a way to do both.

For now, I have a way to deal with some games (not all, but quite a lot) for extraction, reference, cross checking with official English versions, then fixing those easier-to-edit English versions. The purpose of this thread is to get in touch with like-minded anons who care about this sort of stuff and can't do it elsewhere because moderation elsewhere successfully stifled the mere possibility of some romhacks (and i mean purging topics out of existence within hours if they merely complain about other romhacks or suggest fixing them for gameplay reasons, let alone evil weaboo reasons)

I'm confident what we'll get done here might be of some use to other romhackers, the discoveries entertaining enough for the general public (and there will be discoveries for sure, this topic is blacklisted almost everywhere meaning it wasn't researched nearly enough) and may even rekindle trust in localizations that aren't as bad as initially thought, besides fixing others that had flaws that would newly come to light.

There are many people interested in regional differences who would replay a 20 hour JRPG twice and go through a laundry list of obscure text to check out with multiple savestates in both regions, and eventually feel burnt out. This isn't even my idea. Chrono Trigger had something like this by Sky Render. Who was now made to apologize for doing it because "it insulted the great work done by professional localizers" and "the retranslations should be removed from the site, but they may remain there as a monument of failure of this approach" or something. I was like, hey, I loved reading those. There's spoken lines by Chrono that aren't even in the localization, all sorts of neat trivia and small details, like a reference to a Japan-only sample demo and a broken bridge event exclusive to it. Others obviously like this sort of thing so why not establish a process that makes it easier for everyone to join in the fun?

Even localization lovers who chased us away might find complete English script dumps extracted from the files rather than typed from a partial playthrough, hella interesting, right? Inserting partial retranslations for those scripts in the game files is a neat bonus.

In other news, making use of the kanji identification that generous anons earlier in this thread provided, for a script dump of Kendo Rage in both its English and Japanese versions. The English version says the heroine is an American exchange student in Japan, yet Hardcore Gaming 101 is trying to propagate the idea that this is an "accurate localization" and the game needs no retranslation. Tremendous. This first serious project (Fatal Labyrinth was a tutorial quest) is dedicated to his hypocritical ass.

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52b93c  No.16830825

File: 0410486a598fcae⋯.png (14.78 KB, 791x152, 791:152, 2020-02-04 08_46_50-負けるな!魔….png)

>>16830817

>The English version says the heroine is an American exchange student in Japan, yet Hardcore Gaming 101 is trying to propagate the idea that this is an "accurate localization" and the game needs no retranslation.

Even a just quick glance at wikipedia proves that is bullshit.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%B2%A0%E3%81%91%E3%82%8B%E3%81%AA!%E9%AD%94%E5%89%A3%E9%81%93

<第一作の北米版。キャラクターの名前とストーリーが大きく変更されている。

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9512a8  No.16830908

Haha, Kendo Rage / Makeruna Makendo uses 回 and 次 (next) as invisible control codes near where the game scrolls the text. Kind of cute…

>>16830825

Holy lmao, japanese wikipedia lists the NA version as a different game because of all the differences

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c3cd3d  No.16831831

File: 3094de354440c33⋯.png (65.4 KB, 824x575, 824:575, ClipboardImage.png)

I'm done with the main text for Makeruna Makendo / Kendo Rage. 25 messages overall, plus a few more (8?) to be extracted later as they use a different (kana only) encoding.

For some reason, the localization has an extra message?

There's a lot of control codes in the way, so it's not quite as clean as I wanted.

Do take a look and give a ratio of how many lines are properly conveyed in English (from 0/25 to 25/25), as I finish extracting the rest of the game's text (just the boss lines, maybe stage names but they're graphics so not sure if comparing playthroughs wouldn't do it)

https://anonfile.com/beY4J8V4n2/makeruna_story_jp_ods

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02bfd0  No.16831974

>>16821952

46 Okumen came back up, so I've made archives of their "FolkuLore" articles talking about some of the things they've had to deal with on the technical end for fan translation. These include the images too, unlike Wayback Machine's previous ones.

>Text encoding in E.V.O.

http://archive.ph/7lRP9

>.GDT images in E.V.O.

http://archive.ph/fG9VH

>Compression in Rusty

http://archive.ph/CWrfj

>Modifying Test Display ASM in Rusty.

http://archive.ph/TC1qp

>>16825248

>>16825215

Another possible idea in relation video subbing: most games, when they retain the original Japanese lyrical opening theme for the western release, if they even had an opening to begin with, almost never get the song translated (Fragile Dreams being the main exception I know of). Same for credits themes. I'm really not sure why either; makes me wonder if there's an extra licensing fee to not only have the audio, but make it legible in another language, that companies don't want to pay. And even in fan-translation, it seems spotty as to if those get subbed or not.

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2bafc6  No.16832809

>>16831974

>>16831974

>. I'm really not sure why either; makes me wonder if there's an extra licensing fee to not only have the audio, but make it legible in another language, that companies don't want to pay.

Additional licensing for lyrics translations is why Crunchyroll omits subbing openings or credits for many shows, so yes.

Also great job on the archives. They're a really useful read for anyone translating from Japanese versions.

I located the title screen of Kendo Rage. Restoring the English version should be mostly possible (except for voice acting, as that's a major unknown). What they did change was:

- added subtitles for 一本 (match set) which appears after you clear each stage, which I found neat

- changed the translation completely for the main text, the NPC lines (dumping those atm), and stage names

- removed voice lines / made them inaccessible?

- changed the title screen

- added orange leggings for the main character sprites, but i suspect it's just a color change. But I didn't check if they changed other sprites…

- changed the text system to read 1 byte at a time instead of 2, and to follow ASCII. That makes it easier to fix than the JP version.

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02bfd0  No.16833057

>>16832809

>Additional licensing for lyrics translations is why Crunchyroll omits subbing openings or credits for many shows, so yes.

Kind of odd when plenty of western anime publishers prior would subtitle them, at least for DVD releases. Granted, it wasn't exactly perfect (alternating romanized and English per episode doesn't feel as good as having both present at once like fansubs tend towards), but they still went that distance. Then again, it's not like Crunchyroll is known for good quality.

>Also great job on the archives.

No problem. Hope they might be helpful to someone.

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dbbc38  No.16835108

File: dcac76205f653bd⋯.png (48.16 KB, 474x664, 237:332, ClipboardImage.png)

With this, Kendo Rage should be complete.

The localization really did a number on it.

https://anonfile.com/B57bK6W9n0/makeruna_story_jp_ods

Moving on to Brain Lord, then the SMT1 English script.

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0df34c  No.16836321

I don't know if I should be angry or just disappointed at this point since nothing is sacred enough for the likes of resetera. This dropped when 8kun was offline.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200209053310/https://nichegamer.com/2020/02/08/goemon-3-english-fan-translation-now-only-includes-slur-free-patch/

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786162  No.16836331

>>16836321

It's an empty gesture, as the "slur-free patch" replaced it with "newhalf" and cut nothing else, which is the untranslated version of the "slur". The translator's request to do the "alternate" patch came optional, and didn't actually change the original meaning as they demanded (it was a tranny trap deceiving a heterosexual male into having a relationship without disclosure, which is the "problematic trope" they want completely removed)

What's horrible is that resetera harassed a translator, and were rewarded for it (even if it's that translator), and that other games with far more heavy subject matter than japanese comedy about trannies are now off-limits even for fan translators.

Remember this whenever resetera and their peons whine about an "official localization for Mother 3".

An official localization = the current 1.04 fan translation patch will be removed off the internet.

Before you say "why couldn't they do their own alternate rewrites?", they did exactly that, twice. The fan translator steers clear of any drama (even avoiding doing a complete let's play for Time Twist on the Famicom BECAUSE of its contents) so when they asked him to rewrite the game, he… gave them all needed ressources, then released that as a "rewrite by [tumblrista_extraordinaire_NPC754]" NOT an update to the original fan translation patch as those hoped for.

Almost no one plays or pirates the rewrite.

Since this is really about control of what others should be allowed to consume, this won't do, hence the need to control the translation via translators (too much effort, won't last in a nerd community they despise too long) or external editors who "localize" the translation (this was initially because translations were too long to fit, so were edited for concision, but then you got cases like Final Fantasy IV where the editors took a correct script and imported back memes and mistranslations and head canons and made it inferior to the OFFICIAL censored localization) or romhacking.net's submission commisars.

Speaking of romhacking.net's submission commisars, they blacklisted not only Goemon 3, but 2 by the same team which DIDN'T have a controversy, from appearances in automated bot listings of new translations, or news articles, or new threads.

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0df34c  No.16836350

>>16836331

Hopefully we could organise something so those games can have fan translations while being untouchable to resetera, their whining has no bearing on what anons here can do, all I want is a faithful translation and perhaps some bug fixes.

I did bring up earlier in the thread about looking for a way to host our patches so they don't get lost otherwise we have a situation like this were the old version is just deleted and replaced with an inferior replacement, I rather the translator stand firm and not offer the newhalf patch because tranny was an appropriate translation, who gives a fuck what resetera thinks, they aren't the arbiters of what people can and can't do.

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65da65  No.16836373

>>16821516

Still learning, check back in 2-5 years.

No I'm dead serious and talking about myself.

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d6cdc8  No.16836380

>>16836350

The idiosyncratic wording "reverted to Japanese" probably means "guess you don't want translations, fuckers, taking my ball and going home" in DDS' cryptic way of speaking sometimes, but naturally I don't think this is how most of the world looks at things.

As for Tom, well, these bullies go cruising around actively looking for the weakest targets they can find. It seems clear to me that Internet people telling him to be stronger than that didn't work, the warmest words of encouragement from game translators (some active and some "pulled out of retirement") didn't work, people telling him to just take a break from Twitter till it blows over didn't get him to, people calling him a coward (!?) didn't work.

It can take a man without inner strength / emotional maturity many long years to find it, especially with societal pressure not to, resources on the topic being hard to discover, and nobody close enough to open up to. I hope it does not take him nearly that long.

I observed that the bullies usually told him he "lacks empathy"; this is a fine-tuned way to exploit a common secret fear for "highly sensitive people" (among other possible conditions), who actually have so much of it they rarely know how to handle it and try to be tactful to an extreme to avoid being yelled at or whatever. Because it goes totally unexamined in most people who have this attribute, they tend to just assume the problem lies with them.

I want to be clear that this brand of bullies lays a false claim to "sensitivity", seeing as they're the ones who "lack empathy" and do borderline sociopathic shit by using a cultivated touchiness. Truly sensitive people (who have not yet mastered themselves) are pathologically running from conflict, not pathologically seeking it. Ironically, a lot of them are fooled into thinking they've found refuge in online communities that look nice to the careless observer, but turn out to be the most vicious and cliquey of all. Also, some of these are support groups for people with these problems.

>>16830817

>Even localization lovers who chased us away might find complete English script dumps extracted from the files rather than typed from a partial playthrough, hella interesting, right? Inserting partial retranslations for those scripts in the game files is a neat bonus.

Really, game text (any language, most games, even some really popular ones) being kind of hard to find in plaintext is a huge unmined treasure of digitized-yet-locked language corpus material. Can't remember how many great/horrible lines I've looked up only to find absolutely no discussion of it.

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0df34c  No.16836399

>>16836380

It isn't, that's why I thought it was some "compromise" so resetera stopped bitching, not that it stopped anyway, they hate him for some reason. Strange as his translations are good, much better than Dynamic-Designs.

No idea how old Tom is but he seems "new" to the internet, either he doesn't understand the difference between resetera and other communities or he really did let resetera bully him into stopping his translations.

Am I desensitized to it? I personally couldn't care less if someone told me "you lack empathy" since I know it's meant to exploit you so you capitulate to their demands no matter how unreasonable. Going to sound like a faggot but this is why I prefer 8kun over forum communities like resetera or neogaf as the mask of anonymity let's people tell you straight up if you're being a retard or not, there's also no hivemind mentality that results in purity tests.

Thought I share it anyway but I got the v3.0 of Goemon 3's patch that got deleted by romhacking.net.

https://www9.zippyshare.com/v/tGg0PJqn/file.html

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02bfd0  No.16836428

>>16836399

>Thought I share it anyway but I got the v3.0 of Goemon 3's patch that got deleted by romhacking.net.

I seem to have v1.0. What does v3.0 contain?

>No idea how old Tom is but he seems "new" to the internet, either he doesn't understand the difference between resetera and other communities or he really did let resetera bully him into stopping his translations.

I don't know. He didn't seem new to fan-translations though. His first was, what, five or more years back? Maybe he just hadn't been directly aware of all the shit SJW ilk have been giving everything for the slightest "offenses"? Though that would ask the question of "how?"

>Am I desensitized to it?

Imageboards will do that, at least to those that can be molded to fit in. A few years lurking, a few years of seeing everyone get called faggots, niggers, niggerfaggots, and other creative names (like "chromosome hoarder") normalizes that sort of language to the point it mostly rolls off you. But at the same time there's usually some truth within the same message when you move past the insult. You might not be an actual nigger or faggot, but maybe you did really fuck up. Maybe you are being a retard in some aspect. Maybe your taste is shit. It's the sort of setting that (ideally) allows people to say what they want, or even needs to be said, without having to worry about a ruleset that is specific about being "friendly" or "inclusive" or hurting people's feelings. And at the same time, the anonymous nature of things means even if you're the equivalent of the village retard in one thread, it doesn't stick with you as a standing reputation unless you make others aware of what you did over and over.

I too much prefer imageboards as a place to discuss things. Have for probably fourteen years now (though I'll admit it feels like the era I loved most is long gone). But not everyone is cut out for this sort of medium. And they have pretty much the entire rest of the internet if they want faces and names, and self-censoring so as to not get banned in the name of accountability. Even with the sort of reception Tom got from all the twittershitters and Restarea, I would assume given his reaction that he'd still likely take those sort of namefag places to here, where he's got some sympathy and people that prefer accuracy, even if it means having to "fix" his reputation or be driven to quit.

>>16836350

>their whining has no bearing on what anons here can do

Given that when whining doesn't cause change from outside, they try to infiltrate to be the change they want to see from within, I'd say there's some cause to at least be cautious of who might get involved with what. Just saying.

>>16836380

>Really, game text (any language, most games, even some really popular ones) being kind of hard to find in plaintext is a huge unmined treasure of digitized-yet-locked language corpus material.

Probably because without being able to dump from the game as plain text, it can be hard to record the entire script. Especially if there's stuff some players will just straight up never see in their own playthroughs (which even impacts QA for official releases, resulting in untranslated text not being caught). Also not real sure when, or if, display text became the sort of thing to easily rip straight from code (IE: the lines are easily findable as searchable text as opposed to code calls to symbols/images), but that could also well play a part in whole scripts being hard to capture for JRPGs and the like.

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0df34c  No.16836436

>>16836428

>I seem to have v1.0. What does v3.0 contain?

Mostly bugfixes.

>Version Three

>Updates some graphics to use solid black instead of transparent pixels.

>Fixes the Walker sprite when jumping north off of ledges.

>Moved some ledges in the Mechanical Tower to dissuade players accidentally getting stuck above them.

>Fixed typos and positioning of text.

>Version Two

>Fixes the Game Over screen.

>Fixes pink screen bug when playing on hardware.

Tom's been around for years but from what I seen, he travels in places that do have much stricter rules than here like romhacking.net where the banhammer is liberally used but they are also niche sites where talk of more broader culture doesn't really happen so either he simply doesn't know because no one brings it up or he keeps quiet so no one lynches him about his views or he really is one of those people that don't know about sjws or resetera, bit difficult to explain the latter as it's everywhere now. To be fair though, he does spend most of his time just translating games so I wouldn't fault him for not caring much about broader culture surrounding video games.

I've been lurking for a few years, occasionally posting something so I'm quite new to imageboards but I do understand the sentiment of a better time years ago, things have certainly changed for the worst and this is one if not the only place I feel is welcoming and fun whereas everywhere else is constantly purging users for wrongthink.

>Given that when whining doesn't cause change from outside, they try to infiltrate to be the change they want to see from within, I'd say there's some cause to at least be cautious of who might get involved with what. Just saying.

I know, I've seen many good projects, from fan works to fan translations to mods get derailed because of it.

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d58634  No.16836470

>>16836399

Hi, >>16836331 here. I changed my mind.

DDS and Tom intended the newhalf patch as an alternate patch, but the RHDN administration deleted the original 3.0 update and forced that alternate patch on EVERYONE as a 4.0 version, and no offensive game content warning in the readme. No other patch by DDS was approved anymore.

This kind of frames him quitting twitter alongside Tom in a whole new light.

You might want to backup existing translations on RHDN while there's still time. It's happening faster than we thought.

Get the Goemon 3 patch from here: >>16836399

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d58634  No.16836496

>>16836436

>I've been lurking for a few years, occasionally posting something so I'm quite new to imageboards but I do understand the sentiment of a better time years ago, things have certainly changed for the worst and this is one if not the only place I feel is welcoming and fun whereas everywhere else is constantly purging users for wrongthink.

Imageboards aren't good enough <<on their own>> for organizing though. Everything is too "open" and under surveillance by censorious busybodies worried about fullchan sabotaging their latest retard ops, lest need I remind you the topic to sink resetera over their op to cancel katsura hashino and force a censored localization on persona 5 ended out - their response time was 35 minutes. They knew about the THQ AMA from here too the same day Mark was gushing about it before it happened, not the twitter.

Shitposting about his ancestry aside, I applaud Mark's efforts not to allow compromising the boards with censorious jannies (beyond the bare minimum needed to keep the discussion ontopic and eliminate planters of illegal content that would be used to nuke the entire forum) but while discussion can happen here, which is marvelous, basic opsec isn't in place here which doesn't help in the long term.

They need to be complemented by another communication medium.

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02bfd0  No.16836529

>>16836496

>They need to be complemented by another communication medium.

That strikes me as an issue where there would have to be balance, and it would be one that would be hard to weigh. Just using an imageboard, that leaves progress open to critique by other people who care, while making it more private can drive distrust towards whether the people working on it will be as faithful to the game as possible when everything is happening behind closed doors.

If it did come down to it, it would probably have to be an anon created venue, or at least one Restarea isn't smart/saavy enough to access. Issue though is, how to ensure that people using it are still legit anons and not someone claiming to be (which could work both ways; IE: SJW trying to say an anon isn't who he says he is, or an anon saying that an SJW is squatting under whatever name/role he's trying to join).

A smaller name imageboard, one that isn't in the limelight (I don't mean the bunkers, or anywhere that have been shilled to try to bleed users from 8ch either), could be conducive towards keeping the anonymous vibe of it while not having so many eyes on what's going on. But that's assuming that the moderation and other users there could keep their mouths shut about projects going on there, and that "accurate to Japanese" patches wouldn't run afoul of "no politics/lewds" sort of rules (or be deemed a DDoS risk from those angered by it). Barring that, maybe a small site run by an anon with vested interest towards seeing this through, but once awareness is publicly made (if it weren't just to be privately emailed) of it, it's pretty much going to have a target on it, however small. Also the facet that there's going to be a cost on whoever takes it on themselves to get it running.

Other issue with an off-site location would be whether groups should be drawn from 8ch anons only, or if it ought to be open to any other disgruntled translator/hacker that feels they can't work on what they want to in the current climate. Certainly I'd say they need somewhere, but whether or not it should be the same place, I'm not sure. There's a difference in mindset between anons and namefags, and the latter may not want to work with people that they've been led to believe a many-years-long stream of slander towards, and regardless I'd say they should not be led back here.

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02bfd0  No.16836531

>>16836529

Then there's the issue of eventual promotion of finished work. If going with the same route as where work actually gets done on (IE: it becomes the "face" of the site), that's going to be another storm to weather. Obviously finished work done would hopefully not be wasted in getting it to those interested in using it, but people that abhor that it's even an option are likely to either want to keep traffic going where it's "safe", if not outright going "shut it down" mode to remove it. I doubt rhdn is the sort to take too kindly to someone offering similar repository services, at least if it proves able to successfully compete. And, if it's done as a separate site/server (might be better protection so if it goes down it doesn't take the communication part with it), if it's not the same anon paying yet again to keep it up, that's going to be another issue of finding someone that is also vested and will not compromise on intent under pressure.

And on the topic of a repository function, there's the factor of whether content should be entirely new, or patches excised from elsewhere rehosted as well. I'm not speaking about cases where rhdn has disallowed something (wherein the creator/s might be miffed about it), but rather when the original project staff either requested it removed, or removed it from their own site. Personally, I'd think finished, accurate work should be allowed to proliferate (so long as it's clearly credited as to who originally did it, and that the upload is just a rehost), but permissions are a thing, and if the people involved removed it themselves, or are the sort to bar off-site hosting, they're probably not going to give it, and it leaves a dilemma. Do you abide by that and not draw heat to the site, or go "fuck your feelings" and make sure their old patch remains/becomes more accessible?

One other thing: whoever might run such site(s) need to be fully aware that while they have an important role of their own, it is not about them. None of this "Gideon Zhi" shit where one guy is able to take far more credit than he should due to being hacker, host, promoter, and "project manager". Something I like about how Geofront has handled updates and such for Zero no Kiseki has been actually getting the various team members involved when it's come to progress reports, be it actually attributing who's been doing what since the last one, or letting them actually write their own parts. This leaves it very much to feel like a team effort, whereas with something like Aeon Genesis, Zhi doesn't even mention who's done/working on what on the actual project pages, only in occasional news articles and the eventual readme when/if the patch comes out, and does all the write ups himself. Maybe it sounds odd to bring up as an anon, when attaching a name to something on imageboards isn't exactly looked highly on, but I'm simply mentioning it because there's the risk that site traffic and confusion on the reader's end of who's actually responsible for the works being hosted may give whoever runs the infrastructure a similarly inflated ego.

Just some thoughts on the matter. Wouldn't be surprised if I'm giving this too much thought.

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edc11e  No.16836534

So are any of you actually translating anything or is it all ideasguy faggotry?

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c50bc6  No.16836722

>>16835108

There's no relation between the original text and the "localization" at all.

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0df34c  No.16836731

>>16836470

I checked the readme of Goemon 2 and I think something similar happened there as well, not sure if anyone grabbed the v2.0 patch but I can easily make a new one if no one downloaded it.

>Version Three

>Minor edit to a boss dialogue.

I was working on something new to release but I guess I have to spend time doing this now, it's just another undub so it wasn't that important.

>>16836529

>>16836531

No idea how we're going to manage it now but since romhacking.net are simply replacing patches with the version they approve of we're going to need to have something up even temporarily that's an alternative to theirs.

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02bfd0  No.16836894

>>16836731

It'll probably be an uphill battle to even raise awareness of such. Like, in this case, something like Goemon wiki (if that might be a thing) having a note that the alternative is being pushed as an "updated" version on grounds of "the game's rights end where our feelings begin" could be useful (especially if it provided a redump of v3.0 with it), but the moderation might want to push 4.0 as the "proper" version on their own accord to keep the site's reputation "safe" or whatever. The fact that the big name places like rhdn and hg101 can create and control context (because a lie told often enough by the right people might as well be the truth to most who don't know to question it) also means the general places people go looking for information likely can't be relied on, and if an honest alternative were to crop up for either, it would likely take a lot of doing to get properly noticed. Especially when jewgle is still the most popular search engine and have their own biases towards what people are going to see if they don't know where to look already (and many other search engines seem to base their own results off jewgle's algorithms).

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0df34c  No.16836917

>>16836894

I know, it's an unhill battle now trying to find a way to scrape the site to mirror it let alone inform others that what the patches they provide is the resetera approved version.

I'm just frustrated that this happened as quickly as it did, this is akin to vandalizing a painting because it had "offensive" content, imagine if other artforms are treated like video games where it's constantly censored and butchered simply because the people working on it found something icky and purged it from existence, there would be an uproar but it's okay because it's video games and that's for children. I don't see books, movies, tv or music go through what video games go through and it's even affected fan works and projects, nothing is sacred to resetera, everything must conform to their sociopathic ideology, it's sickening, I just want a faithful translation of Japanese games to English where everything is the same as it were in Japan, I don't think I'm asking for much.

Sorry, this really does frustrate me to no end, I used to think fan translations were better because there isn't corparate politics to bastardize it but apparently that's not true, even Japan isn't safe, it's not video games but the mangaka or MHA apologized and kowtowed to China and Korea for naming an antagonist Maruta.

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f7a324  No.16836937

>>16836399

>they hate him for some reason.

Well, assuming he wasn't, say, targeted because to make a point or because the HG101 cuck had beef with him; It's because he said tranny and compromise is unacceptable. Apparently releasing a censored/uncensored patch would be "seperate but equal", or segregation, and something along the lines of "we want a world free of bigotry".

Also a bit of an aside, but relevant, is one of the more 'notable' faggots i saw attacking the Goemon translator was a bitter taco furry who used to do fan translations. Bitch is infamously salty about repro carts, for seemingly no other reason than him not getting any money off the carts sold.

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000000  No.16836938

>>16836917

>I don't see books, movies, tv or music go through what video games go through and it's even affected fan works and projects

It has to all those hobbies and more. You just don't know about it since they're not your primary hobbies so you know less about them. But rest assured those hobbies have gone through similar bullshit and memory erasures as well.

>apologized and kowtowed to China and Korea for naming an antagonist Maruta.

>kowtowed

Ironic. Was using a Chinese word intentional?

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0df34c  No.16836941

>>16836938

>It has to all those hobbies and more. You just don't know about it since they're not your primary hobbies so you know less about them. But rest assured those hobbies have gone through similar bullshit and memory erasures as well.

That's even worse, I thought at least some artform is safe.

>Ironic. Was using a Chinese word intentional?

Yes.

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02bfd0  No.16836952

>>16836917

>find a way to scrape the site to mirror it

That's part of what I find would be a point of contention. Obviously, the less reason people have to go to rhdn for translation patches, the better, and in a number of cases (at least for translation), rhdn is just rehosting work that was originally released on a group's own website or location of choice (IE: gbatemp, etc) as a means of further promotion. But then there's instances where the work was original to rhdn's forums or whatever, and rhdn the first release point. Marvelous: Another Treasure Island, as an instance from what I recall. I mean, I'm pretty sure the staff would get pissed over a full mirror of patches regardless, but there's a difference in them just having permission to rehost and being the original host/owner.

>it's okay because it's video games

Video games, anime, and to an extent manga seem to certainly be held to lower standards in regards to the works therein being allowed to stand on their own merit (though other media may not be all that much better handled). Too many people involved, officially or not, that either want to add their own touch to it than be professional, or get offended by what they choose to bring into another language and decide they can "fix" it. And on the user end, far less care than they ought to, especially after decades of having the ideas pushed that "accuracy is boring and it needs to be punched up to be enjoyed" or that they need to play/watch/read as a social thing and that content that they'd be uncomfortable with enjoying in the presence of others needs to be purged (instead of, you know, hiding your power level and enjoying it on your own time). Used to see those sorts even pop up from time to time on cuck/vg/'s JRPG generals in the early/mid-early 2010's, espousing that Working Designs' spin on things was the only reason they were willing to put up with Lunar and that more games needed English scripts in their preferred style, or that replacing lyrical tracks from Wild Arms 2 and ACF and censoring lewds from Breath of Fire IV were good decisions from publishers because it made those games less "weeb" out here and more acceptable for them to be able to admit to others that they enjoyed. Granted, that was years after Hackers on Steroids and the like, so there was already a lot of normalfag pollution in the posterbase by that point, but still.

>it's not video games but the mangaka or MHA apologized and kowtowed to China and Korea for naming an antagonist Maruta.

JC Staff also seems to have replaced Gunha's trademark rising sun t-shirt in the new Railgun season with a plain red one, probably to avoid offending chinks and/or koreans.

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d2c75e  No.16836954

File: 93fc9030c37ff8b⋯.jpg (12.28 KB, 480x360, 4:3, 93fc9030c37ff8b726b78f0b7a….jpg)

>>16836534

For now, the Kendo Rage text dump was completed more or less, barring stage names (which are graphics, and can be obtained from let's play videos)

https://anonfile.com/B57bK6W9n0/makeruna_story_jp_ods

No anon has yet given their opinion (not retranslating the whole thing) on the translation accuracy for now. It might be that the project is for a too obscure, or uninteresting, but it's only 25 lines long.

Might be better to save obscure games for later and go for the more relevant confirmed cases (such as Link's diary in Breath of the Wild, rewritten as the Adventure Log with all hints of first-person or feelings removed because NoA wants to push character generators)

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d2c75e  No.16836985

>>16836952

Rehosting patches shouldn't be a problem considering RHDN itself is a mirror of older websites, and rehosted translation patches from Dynamic Designs even when they weren't in the best terms with them.

"Their work" is disseminated anyways in prepatched ROMs and piracy websites. Saying it's "their work" in the first place is erronous because their mods didn't do anything of worth ever since 2010 – in fact they fired their own Roll-chan romhacker-moderator because he held too long in the submission queue a political LGBT hack (because the hack was themed around a current trans rights legalistive change campain) as Kotaku and ResetEra complained and wanted to cancel the whole site, and the political busibodies took over immediately and tried to get their tumblr friends to come to change the dynamics of the site (it's always like that) and he now openly throws shades at them on twitter.

Proper credit should be done to all authors and their initial release page, but a mirror done for practical reasons (as patches require a specific rom base)

Requests to get translation comparisons pulled shall not be honored, as it's fair use.

>It'll probably be an uphill battle to even raise awareness of such.

The demand for this information is still there. Censored Gaming on youtube is doing their best to milk half a dozen graphical changes for a 10 minutes video (not that i don't appreciate the intent or think it isn't important)

>>16836531

>no personality cults and inflated egos

Amen to that.

Best case for operational needs is if this effort shouldn't depend on one person entirely. That way, it's able to go on, be mirrored elsewhere indefinitely, even if one chain is compromised.

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0df34c  No.16836990

>>16836952

>I mean, I'm pretty sure the staff would get pissed over a full mirror of patches regardless, but there's a difference in them just having permission to rehost and being the original host/owner.

Normalfags want a centralized place to download patches, it's lazy but what can you do, meaning none of our patches will be on rhdn because the mods see themselves as the arbitors of what should be "allowed" in romhacking/fan translations and that involves no undubs because dubfags will throw a tantrum and translations that offend resetera, we need an alternative that isn't biased and just hosts the patches.

>accuracy is boring and it needs to be punched up to be enjoyed

This sounds autistic but you have no idea how much I hate this attitude, I rather the script be "dry" and faithful then be "improved" and filled with the editor's rewrites and bastardizations, not here but on other sites I used to frequent, everyone believed in this shit. Can only speak for myself but what drew me to Japanese games is because it was different to Western games, from design to gameplay, it's was interesting to me which got me interested in Japanese culture, I can't understand why people who play these Japanese games complain and demand changes so they are less Japanese, if you wanted western games the just play western games, why westernize Japanese games just so you have something to talk about to your normalfag friends?

>JC Staff also seems to have replaced Gunha's trademark rising sun t-shirt in the new Railgun season with a plain red one, probably to avoid offending chinks and/or koreans.

Of course they did. Why even bother at this point? Chinks and gooks are eternally offended by everything Japanese yet hypocritically consume Japanese media and demand it change, just make your own "anime" at the point.

>>16836937

I have no issue of being "seperate but equal" with both patches existing but leave to rhdn to purge the faithful one for the resetera approved one.

It's always furries, resetera or trannies so I'm not surprised.

>>16836954

I'm not fluent in Japanese so I can't attest to it's accuracy but if it is unaccurate, I have the impression it is given it's on the SNES, it would be great to have a retranslation and a patch made, if an anon knows how to reinsert it back into the game. It would be better to save the obscure games for later but this would be good for a first patch from 8kun just to show we are willing to actually make something and not just throw ideas around.

Just my thoughts.

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02bfd0  No.16837003

>>16836954

>Might be better to save obscure games for later and go for the more relevant confirmed cases (such as Link's diary in Breath of the Wild, rewritten as the Adventure Log with all hints of first-person or feelings removed because NoA wants to push character generators)

Something with a larger existing interest base could probably get some more traction, yes. But even then, I'd say its dependent on what the content is. 8-4 cutting (I think it was) Fire Emblem Awakening's silent protagonist option for example probably still wouldn't have that much interest despite Fire Emblem having gotten more popular of the years out here, because it's sadly more a novelty when most modern fans are going to prefer explicit character interaction. And both likewise and in contrast, Link does kind of have that "unspeaking protagonist" thing a longstanding element of the series, so that still might also be somewhat tough to generate interest. But that depends on how many people consider Link his own character and Link to not just be an extension of themselves.

As I see it, it probably take something where something immediately relevant was removed/rewritten in a way no one can excuse. Like, what if Tales of Abyss had its synopsis menu removed out here on grounds of "no one reads this shit". The synopsis menu doubling as Luke's own diary, being given some minor plot relevance as possibly helping him if he ever loses his memories again, and not only summarizing current events but giving his own thoughts on things (which he doesn't always give voice to), cutting or rewriting it would actually have an impact on Luke as a character. Now, that wasn't something that was cut, but that's the sort of level of thing I'm thinking would really get attention.

Actually, on that note of Tales, depending on how much you or others are willing to invest, cross examining the English script for Tales of Hearts R with the Japanese one could be a real sparking point. Kajitani's already said it inaccurate for years, giving an estimate that 60% of the dialogue was rewritten to some degree (or rather that 40% of it, in his words, "[wasn't] a TOTAL trainwreck"), but as he never really gave a line by line analysis (http://archive.ph/2gbrw is mostly summary and very few line comparisons between screenshots and captions), a direct script comparison would likely have a good bit of draw. Especially since even for those that only know English, the game having only Japanese audio in the west at least makes the name changes incredibly noticeable as a starting point that "there's something wrong here".

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c50bc6  No.16837019

>>16836954

>>16836722

Did you somehow miss this? I said it seems to be a complete rewrite, based on that small sample you posted.

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c50bc6  No.16837022

>>16835108

Rough translation of Cell 1

You're a human, aren't you…

If you insist on proceeding past here,

then you must defeat me, Mapress!

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f7a324  No.16837027

>>16836954

I can't speak jap for shit, so take what i say with a grain of salt. i'm struggling to piece any of this together with the help of an online dictionary, but even romanized i can see it's NOTHING like the english script. For example, the line

>Jo:"OOH, it's SOO CUTE!

>where do the batteries go?"

Is apparently something about exterminating Yokai in the original:

>泡野 の舞[Character Name] 「わかったわ![I Understand!]

>妖怪[Yokai] 退治[extermination] でもなんでも<L>

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d2c75e  No.16837031

File: dc68f58a0097322⋯.png (13.03 KB, 256x224, 8:7, Kendo Rage (USA)006.png)

>>16836990

> it would be great to have a retranslation and a patch made, if an anon knows how to reinsert it back into the game.

The tools and steps mentioned in this thread aren't merely for extraction, they can import the text back as well. I can do that.

>>16837003

>Tales of Hearts R

I'm partial to a translation of the DS version using the 8-4 script and some translation guides floating around (yes, one exists). I hear the PSV JPN version reuses a lot of the DS script with hardly any changes.

But for the scope of this project, I'll just say this… there's a problem for accessing the text files. The game assets for the Vita version are encrypted, and not in a known format (CriPack like DS ToH) so in order to extract the text I'll need a way to somehow get it during runtime. Emulators are not an option, but I do have a Vita. Any ways to dump its RAM contents?

>name changes

ToH localization wasn't consistent when naming Artes with the rest of the series, that was what he complained the most about.

But what really discredits the translation is how different and obviously made up the translation is compared to the actual spoken lines, either in tone, length or recognizeable words (like character names, if you're not a dirty weeb).

8-4 reportedly wanted to convince Namco to do a dub or remove the audio entirely (like with Gunvolt in the same time frame, which they said was to "accomodate cultural dissonance between the spoken lines and the localized text"… coincidence coincidence) but that couldn't be done because of budget concerns.

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d2c75e  No.16837038

File: 5ec5e66eec4ad51⋯.png (9 KB, 226x368, 113:184, ClipboardImage.png)

Thanks a lot everyone for contributing. I really appreciate it.

I guess I'll add "convenient way to contribute translations online" to the todo list.

>>16837027

>i can see it's NOTHING like the english script.

That's so obvious to everyone with two brain cells I'm bewildered but still not surprised that the Hardcore Gaming 101 books pretend it's accurate.

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0df34c  No.16837039

>>16837031

>The tools and steps mentioned in this thread aren't merely for extraction, they can import the text back as well. I can do that.

Fantastic. Looked up the game and it looks pretty good, hopefully some anons can retranslate it and we got our first project done, second if you count my undub.

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bb4a7b  No.16837043

>>16836954

To add, I glanced over it too just now and there's a lot of addition and changes to the original. Mostly the addition of "jokes" where the original was more serious, but other things, for cultural reasons I would suppose like youkai detective into kendo master, and other changes for seemingly no reason. There's numerous things just left out. It's very bad, not an exaggeration to call it a rewrite. It was a little confusing with the format and because I think some of the lines might have been from somewhat separate sections of the game? Unless I'm just missing a good chunk of visual context from the game or something.

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d2c75e  No.16837059

>>16837043

Some of it is because I'm too incompetent to produce a proper dump, but sometimes localizations rearrange lines around.

For instance in the NPC lines, line 2 (where she talks about becoming the new "original" in japanese) happens for the first boss fight, which uses english line 1 ("that fool ozaki will never tell")… and some boss fight lines are out of order internally compared to where they appear ingame. That can happen when game development does levels out of order… and one of the flaws of this approach. You get everything in the game, but not its full context. (unless you luck out with a modern game with an obvious filename, or developer comments detailing the context)

The overall number of messages is different for sure (off by 1 for each)

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d2c75e  No.16837088

Some playthroughs for context reference:

JPN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGOOdUn03MM

ENG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiVidESN15A

According to some youtube comments, there's another overlooked regional change… the developers rebalanced the game to be EASIER in the English version. Usually when US marketing interferes it's to make the game harder to clear on a single rental session, so this might have been a legit fix. It's still something to try and restore optionally.

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02bfd0  No.16837098

>>16836990

>if you wanted western games the just play western games, why westernize Japanese games just so you have something to talk about to your normalfag friends?

I would expect it's that they want to have something more obscure to bring to the table of social interaction to get attention through, but at the same time feel there's a sense of standards for what's apt to make them to laughing stock of the group or lose said friends if they introduce them to something too weird/foreign. And that's assuming said person doesn't dislike that sort of thing themselves. Really though, you see these sort of types anywhere, whether it's setting up camp in a fanbase or even a general discussion community. They think everywhere should be open to and inclusive of them, and instead of lurking, learning, and adapting to what the existing people there consider alright (or leaving if it's not), they instead whine that it's not fully catering to them when they're effectively an outsider there. It's not about finding a place that they fit, but making everywhere fit them.

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b33fb5  No.16837112

>>16837098

The space of amateur Japanese video game translators isn't so wide that it can accommodate all these hypothetical people who're using deliberately translating video games inaccurately in order to wedge themselves into a group or to make Japanese video games more palatable to some circle of friends that they already have. Isn't it more likely that there's no overarching social context going on, and that these folks are motivated primarily by selfishness or some crusading agenda? Isn't it more likely that, at best, they're either genuinely uninterested in accurate translations due to the results being uninteresting to them, or they are too incompetent to translate anything complicated and are simply lying about it? In either case they should probably do something else, I agree. I suppose it's possible that the translators want to then go on to present their translated game to some youtube crowd so that they can pretend they're some kind of influencer bringing unknown Japanese games to an ignorant Western audience, but does that actually happen?

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02bfd0  No.16837122

>>16837031

Okay, I did some looking in a thread on gbatemp in relation to Tetsujin no Taiko, being that it's another bamco series. Someone there asked if the people that had made it knew a way to bypass L7c, and they did release their tools (the github dump now being dead and the download links not being archived). Looking elsewhere, apparently Hearts R on the Vita uses something different than the L7c iOS port.

>"The old version of the tool that I gave tiduscrying wouldn't have been able to do that without the special CRC32 code they had going on specifically for filesystem name entries (Why? I used a dictionary to get around this until I could calculate it myself), so I'm glad you pointed me to that Tales of Hearts R game on iOS. I managed to find the hashing code last night during class (because who pays attention in class?) after a a while. Much easier than trying to get the binaries to load for PS Vita games."

>[…]

>"Tales of Hearts R on the PS Vita seems to fail when decompressing. As far as I can tell, this is another compression and/or maybe encrypted. It also has a different value than Tales of R on the iOS and Taiko no Tatsujin V, which may be some kind of good marker for detecting unsupported formats. I added some support for detecting it (and better fallback code) but it's not in the current build downloadable."

https://gbatemp.net/threads/tool-bandai-namcos-l7c-archive-tool.442489/

Maybe as far as getting to the script for comparison/translation, it could be dumped from the mobileshit port? Though I suppose that wouldn't solve the issue of actually inserting a redone English script into the Vita version. And you'd probably have to find a way to contact someone involved about getting the tool at this point, as I can't find a straight up download of anything other than an L7c for Infinity Evolve (that minigame thing Tales of Hearts R had as a bonus), and only because it was stored on mediafire and not a now-dead github.

>>16837112

I wasn't speaking so much of translators there, and more the mindset from end-users that censoring or rewriting content is acceptable by them (and of course the lowest common denominator excuse, one I forgot, being "at least it's in English"). The people actually involved in the translation processes censoring and rewriting for their own reasons is a different issue and likely different sort of social circle, wherein there is a blatant agenda being pushed. Just that normalfag end-users help enable them in not wanting as 1:1 a version as Japan saw.

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a0c7e7  No.16837451

>>16837122

There IS a mobileshit port?

Also bummer they removed the github tools, any mirrors for the tools and this ios version if it has the translation?

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02bfd0  No.16837493

>>16837451

>There IS a mobileshit port?

Yeah, but only in Japan. It and Phantasia (TopX, I think), were the only mothership titles to get mobile ports, and I don't even know if it's still available or it there's a rip of it out there, especially if it's Japan only. Phantasia got dropped from it pretty fast, at least out here (every time Bamco brings Phantasia over, they give us a bad version), so if Hearts R's iPort out there had similarly garbage changes (like locking save points to microtransactions), it might have been pulled by now.

As to tools, I'm going to post the links I'd found when looking. Maybe one of the people involved (Nagato or onepiecefreak in that gbatemp thread would be places to start) can be tracked down and asked where it went, or maybe the individual L7c tool has since been bundled into this "kurimii2" tool set the latter was working on. Might be worth digging around for what the reply in https://github.com/FanTranslatorsInternational/Kuriimu2/issues/14 is referring to, as they both mention L7c. That post was from last year as opposed to 2016, so maybe whatever issue Hearts R Vita was having got worked out? Also, the mediafire link to the Hearts l7c file there still downloads, but again, that might be for the minigame it came with and not the main one, especially at that small a file size (unless the file is a key or something).

Other than those, maybe see if there's an archive somewhere of https://github.com/solaris573/taikotools/tree/master/psvita-l7ctool/psvita-l7ctool other than wayback machine's that actually captured the download data. Beyond that, it seems like everyone that once mentioned it always just linked back to the now dead github rather than mirror it.

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dc3df5  No.16837603

Just like every other successful anonymous project in history, make a wiki and collect information more permanently there. In particular, pool together the tutorial and tool download links, and make patch pages that have game context, background (why it sucked), comparison lines, and links to the patches.

Things will get moving from there.

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b33fb5  No.16837614

>>16837603

Make sure you encourage people to actually use and update the wiki, too, and not just let them get sidelined into some discord somewhere.

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ec6732  No.16837629

Huh, I suspected RHDN was full of fuckheads by how various things were handed in an obsessively anal manner (not allowed to use first person pronouns in readme files), and arbitrary rejection of bugfixes for multi-region games that use different addresses for their tiles and text locations. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle.

Alas, I read moon just a bit better than I read a plate of spaghetti, and my abilities are pretty much restricted to the dry well that is the NES/FC.

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a0c7e7  No.16837660

>>16837629

>my abilities are pretty much restricted to the dry well that is the NES/FC.

Have more confidence in yourself, anon.

Older consoles are more likely to have custom encodings, newer ones use more standard encodings and your skillset is still useful there as well (graphics aside, but it's a matter of changing 1-dimensional to 2-dimensional in tilemolester and experimenting from there)

>>16837603

>wiki

As mario would say, "just what i needed" So obvious yet …

What's the best way to host a wiki with a user friendly visual editor? Last time I tried that (parsoid) it would require a service to always run at hoster level, which was a more premium hosting fee… I'm a complete noob.

>>16837493

If it's Japan only, that won't help much.

That said I found a link to the English version of Phantasia IOS.

Found a fork of the L7C tools: https://github.com/mariodon/taikotools

another one rewritten in python: https://github.com/loljimmo12/taikotoolspy

It could be that Kuriimu included the existing L7C support too. Latest public build is ages ago, but the L7C inclusion is recent. It will need to be rebuilt from source to include that. Tales of Hearts R is mentioned, so if that works, this could fix the issue completely.

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f2ae11  No.16837764

>>16837660

A "private" ShoutWiki is an excellent option. You run the risk of being terminated when bombarded, but regular archival of a ShoutWiki is easy to do and does not require much space so long as large files are not hosted directly. I am not aware of any litigation regarding content released by ShoutWiki (not even Bad Webcomics Wiki which is on to this day despite being loaded with screencaps).

You can find the Wikiteam archival toolkit here:

https://github.com/WikiTeam/wikiteam

Just make a .bat to dump the wiki and set it to run at regular intervals (or do so manually whenever you please).

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33e60e  No.16840628

Thanks a lot everyone for the excellent suggestions. Preparing another bunker right now. I'm slow, but let's hope the wait will be worth it.

We know a bit more about the Goemon 3 situation.

Tom wished for an alternate patch (newhalf) to be released in addition to his original patch (tranny), not as a replacement. DDS reluctantly agreed. He worked on a few updates for Goemon 2 and Goemon 3 as well as a news article.

RHDN blocked ALL discussion of the translation on discord, and their submission team refused to allow everything DDS would push. They would then call DDS publicly on twitter "can we discuss this in DM?" Then Goemon 3 has the 0.3 update with the optional patch, and shortly after 0.4 which adds nothing but removes all options but the censored patch (newhalf). DDS quit Twitter.

Someone on halfchan /vr/ said they talked to the graphics guy in DMs and confirmed Goemon 4 wasn't cancelled but they are sick of people asking them about it. Buut… that might just be the moderator, or a resetera tranny with a vested interest in downplaying the situation.

A surprising twist is ResetEra assholes still stalking DDS. Pic related went to DDS and told him "good job on the deslur patch, but why didn't you change the whole sentence", and sure enough when he reported back to the home base we knew it was a ResetEra-tard.

The new narrative was for a while that DDS quit twitter because he's harassed by "both sides", including "translation purists", which is factually wrong. The strongest reaction seen on the anti-resetera side was baddesthacks saying "you bent the knee man? not cool" (which is hilarious, because he's usually angry), and One Angry Gamer calling Tom "what a coward" over his psychological breakdown, but that one is controlled opposition since forever.

But now, they (including cj_iwakura, a resetera plant into the fantranslation scene) want to propagate that Tom is actually still "cranking behind the scenes". We know that one is false, because the french romhacker is asking for help to finish translating Goemon 1's untranslated signs for his french translation, because… Tom is no longer willing to do that at the moment.

If you're interested in other games that might get the Goemon 3 treatment soon, preserve the following translations

>Time Warp (NES)

>Adventures of Tom Sawyer (NES)

>Front Mission Gun Hazard (SNES)

>Famicom Detective Vol. 2 (SNES)

>Bahamut Lagoon (SNES)

>Castlevania Symphony of the Night (PS1)

>Chuka Taisen (NES)

>Mother 3 (GBA)

RHDN mods are vindictive and hold grudges for a very long time, until they can exploit an event to do their purges or do it stealthily.

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ec6732  No.16840657

>>16837660

I've got zero experience with hacking anything other than NES games, and I burned myself out doing a bunch of hacks one summer, desperate to find distraction. I'm more comfortable in working with 4 bit color and the NES palette, and I can't think of any other games that I personally feel need to be fixed. I did that with Metal Gear and Crystalis.

Translation is totally outside of my wheelhouse. I'm more suited for grammar and graphics correction.

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f0df0e  No.16841652

>>16840657

The SNES CPU is backwards compatible with the 6502, so you might find it easy to switch over if you have any interest in 16-bit hacking.

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0df34c  No.16841733

So Snack World released and surprise, surprise, no Japanese voices, Level-5 seems to think think those interested in Japanese games want to hear some 40 year old chain-smoking American voice cute anime girls, seriously I didn't know it was dub only and was creating my character and the second female voice option sounded like that, I'm amazed dubfags are able to tolerate such low quality voice work but these are the same people that think script changes are needed because Japanese culture is to "foreign" for them. Not to mention that, as always Level-5 managed to include dubs for German, Spanish, French and Italan but refuse to give the option to listen to the original Japanese voice track.

https://www92.zippyshare.com/v/Dc9uRCPL/file.html

Installation is pretty simple, just install your definitely "legal" copy of the game and drag and drop the folder, overwriting everything and reboot.

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02bfd0  No.16841816

>>16840628

Maybe just me, but I'd think Mato's got a bit too much popularity for them to try to make another example with. But if you mean there's a risk of him having seen the shitshow with Tom and deciding to clean up Mother 3 on his own accord, that's certainly a possibility. Probably one RHDN and others would like because then they could say "we dindu nuffin" as far as that instance could go. I've had a zip of the Mother 3 installer for quite a while still hanging around, assuming 1.2 was the latest one, but I'll grab the others there too for safekeeping.

>Pic related went to DDS and told him "good job on the deslur patch, but why didn't you change the whole sentence", and sure enough when he reported back to the home base we knew it was a ResetEra-tard.

You forgot your image. Just saying.

>>16841733

>Not to mention that, as always Level-5 managed to include dubs for German, Spanish, French and Italan but refuse to give the option to listen to the original Japanese voice track.

Might be mis-remembering, but didn't Ni No Kuni I and II have dual English/JP audio, back on the PS3 and PS4/PC at least? If so, as those were published by Bamco, maybe it's more that NoA/NoE (mentioning the latter since PAL got Inuzuma Eleven while NA didn't) have a stick up their asses about whether licensing the JP voices, rather than anything Level-5 themselves did? Granted, I'm saying that without knowing much about Snack World anyhow, and I'm assuming that Level-5 doesn't have their own western branch to publish under and were using Nintendo out here again.

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43e83f  No.16841850

>>16841816

>got a bit too much popularity for them to try to make another example with

This is exactly why they would. He is no longer active since 2007, only thing preventing it is the absence of new happenings from him.

>missing image

wow, it was for the better. They're still stalking and looking out for the possibility DDS might sow terror in the world with unapproved patches on anon imageboards. The graphics guy isn't MIA yet, better "fix" that.

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43e83f  No.16841852

File: e6b7a8ed81abcab⋯.png (71.95 KB, 1058x413, 1058:413, r1.png)

File: c0d3357ca306f07⋯.png (71.16 KB, 1052x229, 1052:229, r2.png)

File: 12aa7c59d2b7a85⋯.png (155.83 KB, 1052x815, 1052:815, r3.png)

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0df34c  No.16841855

>>16841816

>Might be mis-remembering, but didn't Ni No Kuni I and II have dual English/JP audio, back on the PS3 and PS4/PC at least?

They did but that's the exception when looking at their library, many of their games are dub only.

>If so, as those were published by Bamco, maybe it's more that NoA/NoE (mentioning the latter since PAL got Inuzuma Eleven while NA didn't) have a stick up their asses about whether licensing the JP voices, rather than anything Level-5 themselves did?

If that's the case then it's not just NoA and NoE but SCE as well since everything they published were dub only, just reinforces my point that these companies somehow think people want to hear 40 year old chain-smoking Americans voicing cute anime girls.

>I'm assuming that Level-5 doesn't have their own western branch to publish under and were using Nintendo out here again.

They don't, not sure if it would've helped or not as all of their games are infamous for being unfaithful and full of unnessary rewrites.

>>16841852

Fucking hell. I know it's never going to happen but would be amazing for DDS to hang out here instead of twitter or rhdn, I just want fan translations, undubs and uncensored patches not sanatized resetera approved tranny shit.

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02bfd0  No.16841924

>>16841855

SCEA (SCEE as well? Not sure; someone should investigate games NA didn't get but they did) used to have a retarded ruling that any games brought west on their systems needed had to have English dubbing as an option, or no dubbing at all. They exerted it not only on their own publishings, but also on every other publisher as well from a platform holder level. This did not prevent dual audio from becoming a thing in sixth gen due to the larger storage space that DVD-5 and especially DVD-9 offered over CD-R and especially cartridges at the time, but they sure didn't do much to encourage the practice among publishers, especially with it being an additional cost since if they wanted Japanese audio, they'd already be having to pay for the English dub to get it cleared. Yakuza 2 being an exception, but maybe Sega just had enough sway, or being so late in the system's life, SCEA was starting to move away from that stance. This is of course assuming that said publishers didn't relish the idea of an official mask to better hide changes they'd make in localization, or why it wasn't worth the effort for retaining Japanese audio.

Wouldn't be shocked if Sony reversed that for the PS5 though, considering how much issue the Commiefornia branch seem to take with Japanese games these days as company headquarters.

>They don't, not sure if it would've helped or not as all of their games are infamous for being unfaithful and full of unnessary rewrites.

Bulk of the companies that have handled them have been NoA, NoE, 8-4, and Shloc (probably brought on for Ni No Kuni because someone at Bamco US thought that their handling of Dragon Quest IX was real good), and a few exceptions like D3 and a "Pole to Win", so yeah, I can see how there's a real lack of care for letting the original scripts/content stay intact, especially when the publishers hiring some of them either don't give a shit or actively encourage deviation from the Japanese.

Apparently they do have a western branch as of 2014, but it's in Commiefornia and the goal there is to produce "multimedia entertainment for Western demographics." Not sure if that entails localization or outright creating their own stuff. Liberation Maiden was also apparently published by a "Level-5 International America", which is not the same name as the aforementioned one (and Pole to Win was used there too, with special thanks being given to Richard Honeywood for reasons I'm not sure of).

>Fucking hell. I know it's never going to happen but would be amazing for DDS to hang out here instead of twitter or rhdn

On the one hand, I don't think 8ch needs more publicity, but on the other, if there was still a private way to contact either, I'd think Mark wouldn't be averse to trying to show that RHDN and social media SJWs aren't the only audience they can appeal to. Likely wouldn't stop false flagging though.

>>16841850

Also, just to double check, you meant Time Zone instead of Time Warp? Because that's what was showing up.

Second time trying to post this.

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0df34c  No.16841939

>>16841924

>Wouldn't be shocked if Sony reversed that for the PS5 though, considering how much issue the Commiefornia branch seem to take with Japanese games these days as company headquarters.

Considering the number of first party Japanese titles decreased as each new console came out, I wouldn't be surprised if they just stopped entirely since western walking sims, sorry cinematic games are what Sony is known for now.

>the publishers hiring some of them either don't give a shit or actively encourage deviation from the Japanese.

It's both and normalfags eat this shit up so they have no reason to change, no one except the few of us care about a faithful translation and not ripping out the original content.

>Not sure if that entails localization or outright creating their own stuff.

I'm guessing localization, none of these western branches make their own games, they either publish or localize.

>Likely wouldn't stop false flagging though.

Nothing does, resetera will continue the lynchings until they have control, I have no idea what can be done there except not give in and stand your ground but even then they'll probably dox you to force you to comply.

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38b8b4  No.16841952

>>16841924

>Time Zone

Yeah. I got confused.

Tom did the translation of Time Zone, a Kenji Eno platformer on NES that has "stereotypes".

He also did a partial playthrough he was too scared to continue (who could blame him?) of Time Warp, also on NES, a Japan-only adventure game by Nintendo (yes) about satan, the holocaust, burning witches and demon baby jesus.

>8ch

You can't be both anon romhaxor and chase your "personality X" public clout. Other known romhackers learned to go anonymous to do things that require piracy, to avoid Nintendo's DCMA, or to distribute things RHDN wouldn't allow because of the latest update in their ever changing guidelines, which they're all too happy to bend to allow politically approved hacks by someone who literally tried to get their whole site shut down. Politically incorrect games are just something else on the list that require this.

Personally I'm underselling myself, but if it's for a cause that can't be done efficiently enough anywhere else, I'm perfectly happy to get it started here. I'm thankful of course to everyone here for the support.

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38b8b4  No.16841953

>SCEA

It's Sega of America refugees (Bare Knuckle 3, anyone?), Bernie Stolar and like-minded cronies that continued his work after he left.

SCEA was vicious about applying their rules when they could get away with them, but they were willing to bend them enough to hurt competitors or avoid pissing off strategic partners, long enough to etch them out of that niche, then it was back to applying those rules again. They never wrote what those rules were on paper either.

Let's have a list of rules, and temporary counter-examples:

1) No Japanese dubs at all, later relaxed to Japanese grunting allowed, then Japanese tracks allowed as long as it's dual dub - remained there the longest until Yakuza 2, their first major JP dub only game.

It has to be either English, or muted. The existence of the infamous Chaos Wars English dub is excused by the fact the publisher wanted to keep the Japanese dub and couldn't do so unless it was a dual dub.

Symphony of the Night was dubbed a week before cert submission deadline because SCEA rejected it last minute, and there's a ton of dubbed lines that never play in the game because the game wasn't bugfixed enough for them to play.

2) No games that don't show off the hardware enough.

aka: no anime, then relaxed to allowing prerendered 3D, then relaxed to no 2D, then relaxed to "allowed but only as a budget price game", then relaxed to no "bad" 3D.

Used against Crash Bandicoot of all things, as it had an animated cartoon opening. Game was held for months in SCEA cert despite being virtually ready. Many PS2 launch titles were judged "inadequate" for US release, such as Goemon (delayed from 2001 to 2005 then cancelled) and Chulip (delayed from a 2004 US release to 2007)

Notable exceptions:

Rapid Reload, used by SCEE to show off the PS1 graphical prowess

Beyond the Beyond, a 2D RPG by Camelot, and Game Freak's Click Medic, a budget 2D puzzle game. Used against the Saturn and Nintendo.

Metal Slug ports, SCEA bought the exclusive rights so that Saturn ports could not be localized, then sat on the rights.

Castlevania Symphony of the Night, Mega Man 8, Mega Man X4… because both companies threw their weight around and announced plans to go elsewhere.

Dragon Quest 7 and Valkyrie Profile, because Enix just left the 64DD partnership in disgust (DQ7 was meant for it, hence the dated early lowpoly graphics in 2000)

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38b8b4  No.16841958

Too tired to type the rest but also

- no RPG rule (bent after Square announced Final Fantasy VII)

- no animu rule (bent in Europe first)

- if SCEA considers it not a real game, it's not allowed. Used against weird japanese simulation games, visual novels, quizzes, dating sims (used as late as Sakura Wars PSP in 2006, then Ace Attorney revitalized the genre in the West… was that a mistake? Now even otome games are unwelcome on Sony platforms)

- unofficial, but some religious theme censorship continued on the ps1 in both first party and third party games. Still happening on PS2 (replaced menorah in Shin Megami Tensei 3 with something else)

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02bfd0  No.16841966

>>16841939

>It's both and normalfags eat this shit up so they have no reason to change

Maybe it's because I've spent so long on imageboards as opposed to anywhere else at this point, but I've never personally seen much in the way of a "dubfag" crowd myself. Are they really so gungho that everyone conform to their tastes that just adding an additional language option they don't have to use to a game is something to whine about? That it even being present taints the game or something?

>I'm guessing localization, none of these western branches make their own games, they either publish or localize.

Square tried once (keyword right there).

>they'll probably dox you to force you to comply.

Beauty of imageboards right there, assuming they don't get their own into a janitor position. Assuming one's not a tripfag or avatarfag, or otherwise try to have an identity, it's much harder to trace who's saying what past the given thread. And I'd certainly hope that anons here know how to keep imageboards separate from whatever other discussion mediums they use.

>>16841952

>He also did a partial playthrough he was too scared to continue (who could blame him?) of Time Warp, also on NES, a Japan-only adventure game by Nintendo (yes) about satan, the holocaust, burning witches and demon baby jesus.

What the fuck? Definitely sounds like a game that only imageboard translators would be willing to translate unscathed.

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02bfd0  No.16841970

>>16841953

>The existence of the infamous Chaos Wars English dub is excused by the fact the publisher wanted to keep the Japanese dub and couldn't do so unless it was a dual dub.

Doesn't excuse the shoddy translation though. A crossover requires extra care, since there's multiple interest groups to have to satisfy.

>Symphony of the Night was dubbed a week before cert submission deadline because SCEA rejected it last minute,

What exactly did they have a problem with? Because clearly it wasn't voice quality, if characters like the ferryman are an indication (unless he sounded even worse originally). Or did you mean the game itself was rejected for being sprited 2D, or something? I know both publishers and reviewers were big on pushing 3D capability at the time.

>and there's a ton of dubbed lines that never play in the game because the game wasn't bugfixed enough for them to play.

Has anyone ever tried to hack them into their proper places? I know the dub is rather laughable (as is the official English script), but it's got me curious as to what the entire thing was intended to sound like now.

>Many PS2 launch titles were judged "inadequate" for US release, such as Goemon (delayed from 2001 to 2005 then cancelled) and Chulip (delayed from a 2004 US release to 2007)

And yet they allowed games that were clearly late developed as PS1 titles that got bumped over as launch titles here? Or was backlash to those what prompted others to get decline as subsequent early games?

>Rapid Reload, used by SCEE to show off the PS1 graphical prowess

Probably would have been better used in NA, given we shared a 60 mHz refresh rate compared to PAL's 50. That's if SCEA actually had interest.

>>16841958

>no RPG rule (bent after Square announced Final Fantasy VII)

Being announced as in development in Japan, or that Square wanted it to come west? Just wondering how much power it had at the time, even in switching to a different company's systems, if being on the system in Japan was enough on its own. In any case, I suppose that was at least good for us here in the long term, but I don't know just how many were straight up left overseas prior to that. At least Wild Arms still got cleared in the between time (releasing prior to Final Fantasy VII in both Japan and North America), rather than being made to wait until they saw how FFVII did (and possibly deemed too late).

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38b8b4  No.16841984

>>16841970

>Chaos Wars

No one else wanted to touch it, and a lot of the criticism was because the names didn't match the ones used in other localizations. It deserves a more throughout critical look than "lol, shit weeb game with shit dub"

>Time Warp

Exactly the kind of game appropriate for here.

>Symphony of the Night

The E3 demos had Japanese dubs for everything, and that was the intent right until the release. SCEA forced their hands. That's why IGA was so displeased by the results he got them to change a few things (like reusing "Whaat?" in the intro for Alucard vs Death, instead of a planned "OoOooH NooOOooO!!!")

A reverse undub with the shit US localization in its full glory would be something. Using the PSP version or Gemini's PS1 retranslation as a base? Those at the very least are possible. (PSP version is a REWRITE of the original localization so even more trash, by the by)

>PS2 launch titles

Goemon isn't exactly a looker, but it seemed competent enough (no worse than Maximo) and the unreleased US version remodeled quite a bit of 3D assets. While higher standards may be a factor, that treatment was the same as most niche jp things on the system got.

>Final Fantasy VII

It was among the first games in a partnership Squaresoft x SCEI, had one of the highest budgets at the time funded in part by Sony, and showed off 3D graphics (even if prerendered, but it was quite the looker at times for real time generated sequences) so stakes were too high for SCEA to fuck with it significantly besides fudging the european translations more than the usual (enough to convince Squaresoft to build their own European localization services)

It did well enough to convince the higher ups that treating JRPGs like poison was idiotic, especially as the PS1 reputation as the JRPG machine rustled Yamauchi's jimmies enough for him to rage about the genre in public.

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52b93c  No.16841995

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>16841733

The English version is censored anyway.

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274c34  No.16842017

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274c34  No.16842033

In other news, the Japanese DreamCast game Napple Tales Arsia in Daydream has offensive content (WHO'D THUNK) and the translator is planning a second patch to fix complains about …

offensive musical instruments

>It should be spelled "fagott" or "fagotto"… "Faggot" is simply a homophobic slur. But if it were me, I would use the more innocuous name for the instrument, the "bassoon"…

>faggot - Middle English (in the sense ‘bundle of sticks for fuel’): from Old French fagot, from Italian fagotto, based on Greek phakelos ‘bundle’.

Stay tuned for the desexualized Sonic 2 Long Edition patch update in 2021 that replaces Wood Zone with a less obscene name.

It's getting changed, so grab the existing version 1.0 while it still exists.

http://www.romhacking.net/translations/5091/

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274c34  No.16842035

File: c58178b1bd0d522⋯.png (725.06 KB, 1067x800, 1067:800, ClipboardImage.png)

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02bfd0  No.16842049

>>16842033

>>16842035

What's the difference between the versions of the patch? Additionally, I want to note that the patch in the mediafire under "Drive Location" is named "napple-patcher_1.0_alt", while the mediafire in the "Alternate Patch" section is "napple-patcher_1.0". Not sure if it's an error or deliberate.

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02bfd0  No.16842051

>>16842049

>What's the difference between the versions of the patch?

And by that I mean the 1.0s listed in the link, not what they're planning as a "fix".

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274c34  No.16842062

>>16842049

As long as it's from October 2019, it's uncompromised.

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0df34c  No.16842714

I have anonfile mirrors for all my uploads and for old patches that are going to be replaced by censored versions. Looking forward to that wiki so these can be organised instead of indiviual posts.

>My undubs

https://anonfile.com/j96aleZ9n5/fft-wotl_undub_fixes_rar

https://anonfile.com/dc53maZ5n7/snack_world_undub_rar

>Uncensored patches

https://anonfile.com/5b7clbZ6nb/Go_for_it_Goemon_3_English_zip

https://anonfile.com/T2n5m1Zdn9/napple-patcher_1.0_alt_7z

https://anonfile.com/taJ5m4Z3nb/napple-patcher_1.0_7z

>>16841966

>Are they really so gungho that everyone conform to their tastes that just adding an additional language option they don't have to use to a game is something to whine about? That it even being present taints the game or something?

Yes, if you want Japanese voice acting in a Japanese games than you're a disgusting weeb. Gaming forums, reddit etc are filled with these people, even cuckchan has them, bring up undubs and they throw a tantrum because how dare you not listen to the American voices. Something that I find weird is, with movies there are subtitles yet for video games we need to have a dub for what reason again? Just read the fucking text, stop being lazy.

>>16841995

I'll take a look at the archive but I might just post the files you need to swap since it's 2GB and my internet is shit so the upload would take a while.

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465f4e  No.16849039

Add Policenauts to the list of censored fan translations.

This time it was "transphobia".

http://forums.junkerhq.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3074

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0df34c  No.16849458

Since the thread got bumbed might as well mention, a proper undub for Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia is in progress, it's just slow because you can't mass replace files in bulk.

>>16849039

Not an issue, here is the current translation before anyone tries to make changes to it so it doesn't offend trannies.

https://anonfile.com/J30dD0b7ob/Policenauts_English_Sega_Saturn_V101_7z

It's always fucking trannies though, can't offend the mentally deranged for some reason, we're allowed to mock people that want to be disabled by cutting their limbs off but trannies are off limits for some reason.

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7f255e  No.16849460

Fire Emblem Awakening, Fates, and echos? I know Fates has good stuff like good guy garon, but as we know, the localization is shit, and they didn' release all the DLC.

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52b93c  No.16849471

>>16849039

Policenauts was translated by goons, so they will most likely cave to the tranny crowd.

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efb4eb  No.16849473

Would any anon like to contribute an article

>>16845921

RE: localization problems, mistranslation, censorship and so forth?

This is a copyable, printable e-zine and paper lasts 50+ years easily.

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465f4e  No.16849543

>>16849458

>v1.1 Here we come~!

Sorry anon, but… Only version 1.0 of the PS1 translation, or anything before September 2013, seems immune. The Saturn version came much later.

It's hilarious the complaining tranny was obviously mentally unstable throughout the thread.

The Saturn version was released a few years later (2016), and while the JAPANESE Saturn version is uncensored compared to PS1 (has extra flirting lines, sexual references, graphics… someone more cultured could contribute), there's no telling if that extra uncensored content really remained uncensored in the English Saturn fan patch.

The full translator reply from that thread, dated September 2013:

>Before I begin, let's just remember that one of the very few rules of the forum is to respect others. And there is nothing wrong with raising any issue for discussion, with the exception of piracy.

>Okay, so I was the translator for the project.

>Regarding the "biovestite" line, the word that Kojima used was バイオハーフ (bio half), which was almost certainly inspired by the Japanese word ニューハーフ (new half). In Japanese, "half" was commonly used when referring to individuals who are half Japanese, half another ethnicity. So one would say so-and-so is a Japanese-American "half." It's similar to saying one is "half Japanese, half American." Since the game was released, it has generally come into view that the term has a discriminatory tone ("half a person"), and alternatives like "mixed" are preferred. Japanese has a tendency of taking English words and re-purposing them (wasei-eigo), often with totally different meanings from the original words. Japanese people do not realize these terms are sometimes offensive in English. The more globally conscious ones will, but not all. In time, awareness may increase, as it did with "half."

>The term "new half" came about in the 80s. It's not clear who coined it, but it caught on when a pre-op transsexual, Rumiko Matsubara, entered a female modeling competition and won, later revealing she had been born a man. Therefore, a "new half" is a person who is, well, a new kind of "half." As derogatory as that term may sound to a native English speaker, again, this is wasei-eigo.

>With that background, please bear in mind that I translated Policenauts in 2005, so I am trying my best to remember how I approached this scene. I couldn't confer with Kojima, so I all I had to go on was what is in the game, and for whatever reason, I went with "biovestite." I can't remember if I had a specific justification for it in my mind. I can tell you that at the time the game was written ('89/'90), "new half" was generally used to refer to a man, pre-/non-op, with a female appearance who worked in the sex trade.

>So maybe a better choice would have been "transgeneder," being that these women are transgenders who have undergone gene therapy? (What would you consider appropriate?) But yes, as you point out, the bar is located next to a VR child porn dealer in a run-down part of L.A., so one has to draw one's own conclusions from that. I would imagine that in the game world, it is likely a shunned establishment. At least that's how I've always interpreted it.

>I cannot comment on Kojima's intent, but bigotry was not mine. In my case, you could put it down to being younger and inexperienced. Policenauts was the first translation project I ever did. Apart from AP English classes in high school, it was the first writing I ever did. Would I change this translation today? Yes, because when I look at it now, "transgeneder" immediately pops out at me as the right way to go. It's simply the most accurate way of putting it, and the two words, transgender and gene, fit together nicely. But I stand by >99% of the game's text. The only other parts I would change are the two (three?) instances of internet slang. I inserted those as a way of hinting at how language has evolved over the decades between now and 2040, similar to the migration of "man" out of hippie slang. Naive, I know. In hindsight, it was unfair to expect players to make that interpretation. Again, that was inexperience.

>The "so-called women," however, that was not explicitly in the original Japanese. I added that because I saw it as appropriate, given Jonathan's extreme character (verbally and physically harassing nearly every woman he meets), my interpretation of "bio half" and the strip bar, and, as you point out, this nostalgia we see throughout the game. I couldn't imagine Jonathan not saying that in that situation, considering those three factors. So I am fully responsible for that line. But I don't consider it as going against the spirit of the game any more than the addition of the phone sex line conversation to the Sega CD version of Snatcher goes against its. It's just that Snatcher has a more playful tone, whereas Policenauts' is more 意地悪 (ijiwaru, "mean").

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0df34c  No.16849554

>>16849543

Not an issue, I tracked down v1.0 of the PS1 translation, here it is.

https://anonfile.com/pdgfF8b0oc/Policenauts_English_v1.00_zip

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71baa3  No.16850225

File: 71a45794edd43fb⋯.png (73.78 KB, 748x622, 374:311, ClipboardImage.png)

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eee7b4  No.16850473

I am completely done with romhacking.net. That ship is sinking fast. It's a bit of a shame because i've used that site religiously for decades going back to when it was called whirlpool.

But after lots of weird behavior and now the fact that they're not allowing accurate translations due to their own selfish political reasons, then fuck this I'm out.

The other stupid trend that's popped up last year is people """re-localizing""" games who don't speak a single word of japanese, they just re-write the script to sound 'cool' and 'funny'. (see phantasy star iv, FF6 etc)

And another trend where people translate games "in the style of Nintendo in the 80s", complete with censorship and huge script changes… on purpose. WTF?

Fuck this shit, With just another 6 months of practice my japanese comprehension will be sufficient for video games anyway.

Adios you fucking weirdo's.

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02bfd0  No.16850492

>>16850225

Sounds like one of those faggots that push the idea that in order to actually enjoy media, you have to stop caring about it's quality.

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0df34c  No.16850610

Tear Ring Saga Series: Berwick Saga - Lazberia Chronicle Chapter 174's fan translation is finished, no idea how good or bad it is but thought anons might find it interesting.

https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/80209-berwick-saga-translation-translation-finished/

>>16850492

There is a frustratingly large amount of those people but this attitude goes along with the normalfag idea that Japanese games are boring unless it's "localized" to be more interesting.

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ee608e  No.16850630

File: 2388d7b9129a49d⋯.png (544.94 KB, 1555x1940, 311:388, ClipboardImage.png)

>>16850610

Unfortunately the translator is the same one that "translated" Tear Ring Saga (the first game before this one) and he changed a bunch of shit:

https://forums.serenesforest.net/index.php?/topic/53111-tearring-saga-new-translation-finished-v104/&do=findComment&comment=4692510

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ffe4fd  No.16850641

>>16850225

>(((( ))))

someone should report that filthy antisemite to the authorities :^)

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0df34c  No.16850644

>>16850630

And into the trash it goes.

It's not even a fan translation at this point but some fan fiction rewrite of someone else's story.

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9bec88  No.16850649

>>16850610

There was a point where Working Designs were praised as gods, and any attempt to badmouth them was seen as contrarian. Now Working Designs is seen as a bunch of demons, and any attempt to defend their name is seen as contrarian. Which is the truth? I don't take issue with the idea of the Un-Worked Designs patches, so much as I take issue with the intent of these patches and with a lot of the discussion in this thread. There is this overwhelming belief that Working Designs made a bunch of objective mistakes, but the proof is a bunch of opinions. "I don't like it" is never the same as "this is bad".

I can already say that at least two of the games released by Working Designs desperately needed the changes made: Popful Mail and Silhouette Mirage. These two games are pointlessly devoid of difficulty that they can really only be enjoyed by 5 year olds. Like, whoever played the Saturn version of Silhouette Mirage may as well have never played the game. I can say this because they are apparently completely unfamiliar with how obnoxiously easy the original Silhouette Mirage actually is, and the WD version didn't even make it much better. They actually need and deserve many more changes beyond what they got, but what they got seems to be the best we got. When anyone talks bad about the changes made to these two games for any reason, they are lying, period. There's only one Working Designs release I can think of where they legitimately messed things up, and what they messed up was extremely minor to most people.

If Exile II is the best example you have, a dumb version of an already very dumb game, then you have a lot more work to do. If this ends up being the one game WD really screwed up with, I honestly wouldn't be surprised, because it's dangerously close to being a joke game in the first place. I did a bit more research myself: I can confirm that Popful Mail, Silhouette Mirage, Vay, and Rayearth are all games that clearly benefited from the changes. Already a pretty good list. It's not "nasty" unless the would-be painter is making the mistake. The problem here is that it's the original developers that screwed up. You've manufactured an issue that wasn't really there. The real issue is that so many older games are not worth playing as they are, especially the niche games WD was often going after.

No one has the right to say "dialogue should never be rewritten", ever. No one has the right to say "this dialogue shouldn't be rewritten" without a very deep understanding of just how different languages and cultures can be from each other. The idea that Working Designs ruined "works of art" really needs to go. There was nothing "poor" about what WD did, at all. You are being fed a story that is not true. The typical Working Designs "tweaked" release is an upgrade over the original for very clear reasons, as a response to initially poor design. This is a fact.

It's very frustrating that people understand so little about game design that any mention of increased difficulty automatically puts the image of "kaizo" hacks. And, you know, it's because of threads like this, that damn a group like Working Designs for doing a really important service. It's already bad enough that most people do not understand very basic concepts like "beating" a game, or what "grinding" means and what it actually does to a game, or what's "cheap", but to hack up games for the sole purpose of "correcting" this ignorance seems like a positively vile thing to do. Again, the actual idea behind the patches is mostly fine! It really should be a full retranslation, but whatever, different people want to do different things. I'm so much more concerned with the vile intent that is driving this thread, and so many threads throughout the internet.

There are a few more reasonable posters in this thread >>16827571 but it seems everything they say just gets written off as a difference of opinion. Not good enough. The kind of rhetoric going on in this thread, and in a lot of places that dare to discuss Working Designs in the present day, demand a proper response. If people just said something like "if you don't like the changes, here's a cool hack" instead of "the changes and Working Designs are irredeemably terrible, so here's a necessary hack that rescues the games from the garbage bin", it would make way more sense and it wouldn't be worth getting angry about. It's stunningly obvious that people have an ax to grind, and that's a fact if nothing else.

Now I just wonder if someone's gonna come at me with some nonsense about respecting the developers, totally ignoring that the entire point of this thread is to disrespect a localization company in a very gross way. If that's not irony, I don't know what is.

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ba61e1  No.16850655

>>16830712

>There's a surprising amount of pedophilia references I had to write out

>I had to write out

>had to

Ultimately these cretins have no self control, they're incapable of 'not' fucking up their task.

Also

>surprising amount of pedophilia

Clearly this nigger doens't know shit bout Japan.

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ba61e1  No.16850684

I like this idea, undoing their poz and exposing the bullshit exactly what's needed in translations. Anyone who thinks they 'have to' re-write an original authors work needs to have their ability to communicate removed. They're not worthy of a voice, hell, their own hands should revolt and strangle them for being such nanny state pieces of shit. Entertaining to see some of them are just utterly lazy and made shit up hoping no-one would notice.

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9754f4  No.16850700

>>16850655

Why is coronavirus obliterating China instead of california?

If you can imagine the intoxicating power a complete loser with no redeemable qualities in his life gets from moderating a forum (for free), imagine the mind-blowing, demigodlike powers a faggot gets by being a (((localizer))) he can show all those dirty japs, the goyim, and other human cattle that he is just like YHWH and will show them with the power of your rewrites who is the real maestro.

With such "humility" and "modesty" too,

<I had to

<I do what I must, as it is my burden to bear, as a superior, enlightened being to correct the savage ways of lesser races

<I am atlas, shouldering the weight of the world!

<Me, a faggot jew, I alone am the arbiter of morality and taste.

I wish mistranslating media had the same penalty as mistranslating court evidence, at least 10 years prison, a fine and a ban from translating ever again.

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ba61e1  No.16850703

>>16850649

>No one has the right to say "dialogue should never be rewritten", ever.

Ah no, everyone in the world can say that as much as they want forever and it should be honoured otherwise you're championing disingenuousness. Revising an authors work to 'fit your cultural narrative' is utterly obnoxious and robs the reader of the chance to become more familiar with the, nation/language of origin by oversimplifying details for the sake of brevity. There is a pernicious enduring lie within the 'translation community' that people watching translated material want it dumbed down or pulped into mush they can process, granted some nigger tier retards want that but it sickens most.

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ba61e1  No.16850714

>>16850700

Don't worry it's getting there!

>I wish mistranslating media had the same penalty as mistranslating court evidence, at least 10 years prison, a fine and a ban from translating ever again.

Doing it intentionally should get them beaten with an iron rod, bragging about it on twitter should get their hands cut off.

I'd much rather have 50 footnotes explaining jokes and turns of phrase than some Califagian shitting up a translation with murricanisms.

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ba61e1  No.16850721

I'd rather sit and try to decipher moon runes from scratch with no help, books or internet just from listening to a language I don't understand than reading some fucked up mistranslated screed cooked up by someone with an agenda.

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0df34c  No.16850734

>>16850649

If WD did what they did to video games in any other medium like books, movies, music or real life shit like legal documents etc they would be correctly mocked and barred from any future work but somehow it's acceptable because "hurr durr it's video games".

I play Japanese video games because I like to see a microcosm of Japanese culture not memes about the current president from boomers who failed to be become a writer or translator and thinks the original script is too "boring" and needs to be "improved".

Localization shouldn't exist, why should one culture be stripped out of a product to be replaced by another when a simple translation with notes not only conveys everything you need but maintains the original work as much as it possibly can, people think localization is just grammer but grammer is completely seperate and perfectly normal in translations.

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b33fb5  No.16850743

>>16850700

Careful, anon, you're making >>16850649 sound coherent and rational by comparison.

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9754f4  No.16850744

>>16850734

<m-m-muh proverbs and cuisine

After all, it's literally impossible to slap a set of parentheses to explain that "throwing rocks at someone who fell down a well" is "kicking someone while he's down" in Chinese or that "you don't count raccoons before you even catch them" is a warning against counting chickens before they hatch

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ba61e1  No.16850754

>>16850700

It's funny how some translation faggots don't understand what insufferable assholes they are, self aggrandising and totally oblivious to it, they've taken on the faux-mantle of a gatekeeper in their own heads. Now *they* can dispense wisdom from on high to the pleb anime fans and control what they see, a bit of self examination with regards their motives wouldn't go amiss. Obfuscating the truth ultimately works against them anyway, if a translators meddling in a title with content they deem (((problematic))) results greater local sales of that title then the original publisher of said (((problematic))) content gets EXTRA revenue from that alteration and may therefore be encouraged to make *more* of the same or even worse (((problematic))) material, where's the logic?

Honesty is lost on these people, they only communicate in lies, they call men women, they claim dung brained niggers as equals, they bastardise originality and play the fucking martyr while they're doing it. If they could just get their heads around the concept of: "Write what the characters said" there'd be no need for this thread. Some nuance may be lost but you can make up for that with annotations, I remember a Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei translation that did that very well.

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d20458  No.16850789

>>16849473

>>16850630

>>16850649

Why is localization even defended in the first place? You don't see the same shit for movies, animation, music, or TV shows.

Imagine if Gungam Style, Battle Royale, or Parasite were rescored/localized to have references to marvel films and Dunkin Donuts.

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9754f4  No.16850796

>>16850789

Japan is literally too exotic and if you don't excise things that are "too weird" you'll go into a state resembling anaphylactic shock and a stroke. Fortunately Blaustein and your friends at Funimation and NISA ensure all the bad ideas are removed and you get epic memes like

<daddy gets all his alternative facts from the best fake news sources

<It's not a weakness, I like to think of it as a character flaw, everyone needs character flaws, wouldn't you agree snake?

Twin snakes fucked it up again by making the line "It's not a weak spot, it's a weakness" whereas the correct translation should've been "It's not a weak spot, it's a shortcoming/oversight"

<hurr durr u must be good at muktuk eating lmao

Original line was snake complimenting Raven's physical prowess

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b33fb5  No.16850814

I don't quite understand sometimes the difference between a good and a bad translation. Bear with me for a minute even though I'm going full /lit/ here. Has anyone read Eiji Yoshikawa's Musashi or Taiko and then read Uesugi Kenshin by the same? Translated by very different types of translators, from what I can tell. The latter seems like it's just poorly translated, but I wonder if it's that Kenshin is more literally translated and the former two had a lot of work done to change some of the Japanese style of writing to something that a reader of English would find easier to read. I have a very hard time explaining what I mean. Take the isolated line "When looking anywhere in the sky, the basin valley should have been a mountain." Is that first part something that would've made sense in idiomatic Japanese, or is it just poorly translated, or do I just not understand the intent of the sentence? I get nervous about helping with amateur translations because of issues like the ones discussed in this thread, and yet I believe firmly that a good translation has to be comfortably readable in English–not readable as in simple grade-school English, but it has to actually sound like it was edited.

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ee608e  No.16851357

File: 5c71bf286bc2660⋯.png (556.12 KB, 754x915, 754:915, ClipboardImage.png)

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7c013a  No.16851374

>>16851357

Ooh, drama. I wonder if we're going to see some shit fly at Sega soon.

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257fad  No.16851425

>>16850814

I like to use my notion that translating/localizing it like cooking a metaphorical steak. Since there's an art and craft to bring out the flavor, there's more of a range of making it good, especially with how you tackle accents, dialects, speech patterns, colloquialisms, Japanese personal pronouns, talking like a kid or elder, etc. The idea is to make the text and translation seem almost transparent.

But like a steak, there's things that can go right and wrong about it. You can almost machine-translate without nuance or care or just leave terms as-is (undercook), annotate the hell out of it to cover all bases, particularly with terms left untranslated and expect the person to pick up the slack if they don't get some pun or reference only Japan would get (burnt), add a bit of spice/season to it, dress it up, lay it on too thick with more "relatable" localizations (like drowning the steak in A1 sauce), dulling it with Westernized terms (like putting ketchup on it or overly tenderizing to soften it up; "Eat your Hamburgers, Apollo), literally cut off bits because it's "too hard", changing aspects like adding a flavor that wasn't there or requested because the chef thought you would prefer it that way, and sometimes they just serve you a salad.

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02bfd0  No.16852289

>>16850610

Might be worth mentioning that Earth Seeker has also had a finished translation recently. Not sure how what sort of quality it is beyond that, and I haven't seen any anons talking about playing it as of yet, but it could be worth investigating if it's faithful or not.

>>16850630

Honestly, I wouldn't trust anything that modern Fire Emblem fans put out to be intact, at least the sort that gather there. I'm not sure if it's just the amount of influx of shitters Awakening brought to the fanbase, or perhaps some idea that they ought to be "cohesive" with how much NoA fucks around with the games we've been getting, but after what I recall of them releasing a rewrite of Thracia 776 last year as a "translation" (which of course got a rhdn review calling it an "improvement"), and Tear Ring Saga, it makes me leery, whether they be operating out of serene's forest or wherever the fuck cirosan made his den.

>>16850744

Would probably be easier on the publisher end to include such in the game manual, if they even wanted to include translation notes, since games can already have an issue of text trimming for the script alone (I guess you can't just add additional frame scrolls to story text since that seems to be a recurring problem), maybe with an asterisk to denote the phrase ingame as being defined elsewhere. But I suppose companies would consider such to be a greater cost to them to produce an extra few pages, or that it would break game flow to expect players to read a manual while they're already ingame. This isn't to excuse the likes of Working Designs or other companies going overboard on how much localization is necessary, but it strikes me as not being as simple as being able to make a note directly within the work, the way anime or manga can layer them over the animation or pages as asides.

Actually, after some more consideration, I might have an idea for how to within a game itself. Looking at the Wild Arms series, the older games had a function in the menu where if you held triangle on a highlighted object (abilities, items, etc), you could get actual descriptions of what things did in a pop up pane, and in WA3 there was the ASK system, in which pressing triangle when new terminology (colored in green) appeared in the plot, instead of pressing X to move to the next part of the script, you could press triangle and get more information (albeit as optional dialogue rather than something like a glossary) before it segued back to the story. So maybe combine elements of the two: Have a way of denoting particular words or phrases in the script, that when a specific button that isn't already used to advance, retreat, speed up, or skip text is held, it brings up a translation note in a separate pane for the duration that it's held. But I'm not sure how easy or complex something like that would be to implement on the fan end (it would probably have to be entirely new code, being an added element), and its utility would probably be limited to games where the text doesn't auto advance.

>>16850814

>"When looking anywhere in the sky, the basin valley should have been a mountain."

If I had to guess, I'd think the idea is that no matter how high you might be on the earth, the sky (and objects therein) are still far away. That's assuming it to mean something literal, and not be its own figure of speech about a goal being too lofty or something.

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02bfd0  No.16852290

>>16852289

>in which pressing triangle when new terminology (colored in green) appeared in the plot, instead of pressing X to move to the next part of the script, you could press triangle

Boy I mangled that line.

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0df34c  No.16852306

>>16852289

Thanks for the notice.

I lurked around fan translation sites for a good few years now and I noticed there are a lot more "fan translators" that take the WD approach to translations and "fix" things that they personally find objectionable or "spice" up the script because it was "too boring", I don't know if they are just new and don't give a shit or attitudes shifted because I remember a time when it was uncensor patches and retranslations because the official release was so butchered.

Honestly, I'm content if they just added a glossary to the game where you can look up terms, it's simple, low effort and doesn't require a lot of resources, it's the bare mininum you can have and it's a much better alternative than turn riceballs into donuts.

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1dcaf0  No.16852409

File: 7f4c6a2fa4851e8⋯.jpg (110.28 KB, 728x1098, 364:549, db3e043ab3c43f805c0e695a95….jpg)

>>16850473

Here's the kind of site you're looking for.

No censorship whatsoever. Have fun

http://www.baddesthacks.net/

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02bfd0  No.16852562

>>16852306

>I don't know if they are just new and don't give a shit or attitudes shifted because I remember a time when it was uncensor patches and retranslations because the official release was so butchered.

Do normalfag site userbases or at least their moderation tend to rail against discussion of objectionable content, at least in a way that isn't in terms of a "I'm going to fix this" notion? Because if that's the mindset of such forums, I would guess they osmose it in order to fit in and have a "good" reputation as namefags. Or maybe it's a notion of broadening the appeal so they get more download clicks? Either way it's shitty, and feels almost like not only are official releases regressing towards NES/SNES tier in terms of what content is acceptable, but even fans (or "fans") that aren't subject to having to get the work to meet a particular ESRB/PEGI rating are doing so as well, and happily at that.

>Honestly, I'm content if they just added a glossary to the game where you can look up terms, it's simple, low effort and doesn't require a lot of resources, it's the bare mininum you can have and it's a much better alternative than turn riceballs into donuts.

I suppose, but that's also got the question to consider of how you'd access it. Usually stuff like a menu is apt to already have all the key elements (aside from text itself, which is indeed going to need replacing anyways) sized as looks best for using the space, if it's not just a plain text window, so adding a "Glossary" tab directly to it might not look very good if there isn't any free room to work with. A small prompt layered over a corner and tied to a currently unused button might work better, but that still has a visual space allotment to it so people know it's there that can obscure other material, unless you want to start a trend where [button] becomes synonymous with the action, or add a mention of it to an existing tutorial/help message (which would technically deviate from the script, but perhaps be a net positive in allowing for avoidance of overly changing the actual plot/dialogue). Or maybe include mocked up English manual as a pdf like some groups provide, and mention it there. And of course there's the factor of do you have the translation glossary update as the game goes on (in which case there would probably have to be event flags or something), versus having the entire thing available from the start. Point being, adding something like that to be within the game itself, as well as awareness of it, is apt to be as much a layout issue for awareness as it is a coding one.

Certainly agree that localization of a script should be done as minimally as possible instead of as often as the people involved want to. Especially when shit like wholesale setting changes impact subsequent games down the line, where having already done so creates logistic errors. Yokai Watch for example: In their haste to purge the Japanese aspects from the previous games and call the originally Japanese setting America, NoA wrote themselves into a corner when Yokai Watch 3 actually was set in America in the Japanese release. So to maintain the idea of moving to a foreign land, they renamed it to be "BBQ", which sounds completely retarded.

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f9ddb5  No.16852668

File: 519d7c44d880489⋯.png (273.92 KB, 642x500, 321:250, umichess.png)

I don't really want to interfere with retranslations, but since a lot of you moon-learners are here, I've some interest in translating some flash games if anybody is interested. They're not the usual porn flash games either, 3 are "real" (non-arcade non-minigame) but short "full" (with an actual ending) games and the other is still full of soul compared to most generic flash games in my opinion. All I need is a translator, no other skills required. I can do graphics and hacking. I'm the fag that's been hacking games in the swf threads. Much easier than the shit going on in here for sure. I'd like to get deeper into that complex stuff myself later though. I'll definitely be archiving this thread and keeping an eye on future installments where I might jump in.

The games I have in mind are four doujin fan games set in the 07th Expansion universe:

>Rosa Musou, a simple multi-stage 2d shooter where you play as best mom Rosa during the Episode 2 final twilight fighting off goatmen and stakes to save your autistic daughter Maria

>A Higurashi meme STG, seems very 2ch in humor

>An Umineko meme STG, made by the same person

>A simple chess game, just with an Umineko theme where you play against some of the Seven Stakes and they have faces and dialogue boxes where they react to moves as the game progresses. It came with a doujin assorted digital goods collection I bought that's no longer available.

I would also be open to doing the hacking for other flash game translation projects (porn or not) if a translator has a game they are interested in.

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c50bc6  No.16852795

>>16850700

Commiefornia has high temperatures. Already about to be in the mid 80s and it's still technically winter.

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0df34c  No.16852981

>>16852562

>Either way it's shitty, and feels almost like not only are official releases regressing towards NES/SNES tier in terms of what content is acceptable, but even fans (or "fans") that aren't subject to having to get the work to meet a particular ESRB/PEGI rating are doing so as well, and happily at that.

There's been a big push to "respect localizers" in the past few years that I didn't see when I first found them and translate in a way that maintains the localizer's changes to a series, take Ace Attorney for example, fan translations still kept capcom's changes even though it's nonsensical and should be fixed because it takes place in Japan not fucking America. Fan transaltions certainly are regressing in terms of quality and faithfulness, at this point they might as well be official localizations since they contain the same rewrites of "objecttionable" content.

>Point being, adding something like that to be within the game itself, as well as awareness of it, is apt to be as much a layout issue for awareness as it is a coding one.

True, honestly I haven't given it much thought outside of a general idea since coming from a fansub background, it's easier to add notes explaining things. For games it's much more difficult but given that space contraints don't really exist anymore since you can always update the game and add new content, it would be nice to not regree to 4kids style of rewrites.

>Yokai Watch for example: In their haste to purge the Japanese aspects from the previous games and call the originally Japanese setting America, NoA wrote themselves into a corner when Yokai Watch 3 actually was set in America in the Japanese release. So to maintain the idea of moving to a foreign land, they renamed it to be "BBQ", which sounds completely retarded.

Ace Attorney has the same issue so capcom just doesn't localize the games that take place in feudal japan. I don't understand the aversion to Japanese culture from localizers, what's wrong with sharing a microcosm of another country's culture with those that enjoy it? Why strip it away and replace it with generic american garbage that makes less sense in other countries that isn't america?

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350f86  No.16853039

>>16850649

Did you really take my baitpost about WD being good seriously?

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02bfd0  No.16853105

>>16852795

Kind of surprised Arizona's actually been cooler thus far, if that's really the case.

>>16852981

>fan translations still kept capcom's changes even though it's nonsensical and should be fixed because it takes place in Japan not fucking America.

To other languages, or do you mean for AAI2 and/or The Great Ace Attorney?

>at this point they might as well be official localizations since they contain the same rewrites of "objecttionable" content.

I wouldn't not be surprised if some of those fuckers are hoping to get picked up for official work off that premise. IE: "we're already operating by industry standards; give us money." Hell, you've even got cases where particular cases do get outright licensed, even if not explicitly hired. AG is still sitting on a patch for Magical Drop 2 (I think) because it the script got bought for a Data-East collection and Zhi wants to shill for it.

>I don't understand the aversion to Japanese culture from localizers, what's wrong with sharing a microcosm of another country's culture with those that enjoy it?

Probably some idea that the world/culture being shown not being immediately and easily relatable is at risk of losing them sales, and a lot of publishers are all about increasing profit, rather than catering to the specific audience the game was intended for. Though, it's not like outright fantasy cultures, western-style or not, aren't likewise apt to differ from our own, and people still wind up pretty invested in those regardless. Could also be the demographic age, but I think it's pretty evident they think even games aimed at adults have to treat those playing them like kids here, be it a third party "parenting" as to what's "icky" or not, or "triggers" or other such nonsense.

>Why strip it away and replace it with generic american garbage that makes less sense in other countries that isn't america?

Considering how usually North America (or perhaps the US and Canada; not sure what Mexico's vidya scene has traditionally looked like) is the first part of the west Japanese games come to, I would assume the focus is specifically on trying to add "appeal" for us. Which if you ask me carries a certain unwarranted self-importance and disregard for if a game is apt to move into PAL (and, admittedly, very often in the past, JRPGs and the like wouldn't). Unless subsequent translations are going to be based off the Japanese original, or adapt an Americanized setting to their own locale, it just forces everyone else to deal with what changes burger teams have deemed needed (which is thoroughly abused), because it's cheaper and faster to license an existing script, and in terms of sequels there's also the issue of "familiarity" to what prior fans know of, botched to previous attempts may have been, that can prevent otherwise beneficial fixes.

>>16853039

Reminder to shitpost responsibly. Assuming he wasn't baiting himself, "idiots believing they're in good company" and all that.

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b878be  No.16853127

>>16853039

He did, but I appreciate that we still have posters like him.

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0df34c  No.16853157

>>16853105

>To other languages, or do you mean for AAI2 and/or The Great Ace Attorney?

The latter, I remember looking at it and they kept the retarded capcom changes for "consistency" when it should've been the first thing that got fixed.

>I wouldn't not be surprised if some of those fuckers are hoping to get picked up for official work off that premise.

Now that you mention it, this seems likely since.

I can't be the only that that finds this really shitty, fan translations are meant to be works of passion for a particular game not a gateway for "professional" work especially when it censors content.

>I think it's pretty evident they think even games aimed at adults have to treat those playing them like kids here, be it a third party "parenting" as to what's "icky" or not, or "triggers" or other such nonsense.

This fucking pisses me of, it's targeted towards adults for a reason, why does every company keep trying to make everything "family friendly"? That's the lowest common denominator shit that drags the entire medium down. I don't understand why parents can't do their job and parent their kid instead of expecting the whole world to do it for them.

>it's cheaper and faster to license an existing script, and in terms of sequels there's also the issue of "familiarity" to what prior fans know of, botched to previous attempts may have been, that can prevent otherwise beneficial fixes.

In the rare circumstances where they don't license an existing script and translate from scratch "fans" would complain it lacks the rewrites the original has, this happened to Lunar when it was released on PSP and Xseed didn't buy WD's script, I might be remembering wrong but Vic Ireland complained the new more faithful script was boring or something and should've had his rewrites. I would love with current rereleases and remasters, companies would devote some effort and include a newer, more faithful translation but that is expecting "too much".

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02bfd0  No.16853198

>>16853157

>I can't be the only that that finds this really shitty, fan translations are meant to be works of passion for a particular game not a gateway for "professional" work especially when it censors content.

Same here, but especially when it's cases of either the "fans" not being fans of the entire work and wanting to "improve" it, or when they actually don't have much investment and are doing things because others have been asking someone do it (at least play the fucking game first before deciding to dump that much time into it). The latter in particular strikes me as likely how some "professionals" actually operate. NISA for example clearly not being enthusiastic about Criminal Girls' content or audience, or Agetec on Wild Arms ACF if the script quality despite being delayed two years on grounds of "not wanting [it] to be poorly done" is any indication of interest levels.

>This fucking pisses me of, it's targeted towards adults for a reason, why does every company keep trying to make everything "family friendly"?

Because ESRB and PEGI don't prevent kids from trying to play shit beyond their age rating, so long as someone else buys it for them (or the Gamestop clerk doesn't care to card them). Now, whether it's a case of companies just seeing them as a hidden demographic (and thus the cause financial), or more wanting to be moral "think of the children" busybodies at the idea, is certainly up for debate these days.

>I don't understand why parents can't do their job and parent their kid instead of expecting the whole world to do it for them.

Maybe because so many parents have to both work and thus raising their offspring falls to teachers, authority figures, and "influencers" (which I suppose media creators/distributors fall under)? And then when it comes the games, or movies or other shit with explicit ratings, they'll buy them just to shut their kid up, then screech at everyone remotely involved if they find it isn't suitable, be it the devs, the publishers, or Fucking Gamestop for selling it. Everyone but them, who were the ones that ignored the rating and specifics and bypassed the intention of keeping it out of Little Johnny's hands.

However, by "parenting" I didn't just mean that in regard to kids, as adults also get parented by these companies too, who dumb shit down and censor because they don't think that a mature adult can handle witnessing the content in a T or M rated game either. An M rating in particular should be a pass to do a hell of a lot of shit, on the idea that the audience should be mature enough to handle it, but no. Current social climate, at least that their PR see on twatter, restarea, tumblr, journokike peddling and the like, tell them that people are too sensitive to be able to handle such anymore. I'd think the better idea would be to actually ask customers rather than make generalizations that "everyone" is possible audience, but even that's apt to get sabotaged unless you require some sort of "proof of purchase" to do so, which would at least weed out some of the "whines but plays nothing" types.

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02bfd0  No.16853200

>>16853157

>>16853198

>this happened to Lunar when it was released on PSP and Xseed didn't buy WD's script

I used to see Working Designs fans on /vg/ many years back deride Harmony not just for opting against licensing the WD script, but that the new prologue spoiled shit hard or something, giving them further evidence to vouch for the Sega and PS1 versions as better experiences, and stating that XSEED should have excised it if they wanted to compete. Granted, Lunar isn't a series I've played to any degree, so I can't say how much that prologue actually impacts or "ruins" things myself. But it really comes off as gall that they'd complain about the developers' apparent vision being left intact for once, and not even in regard to lewd or risque content, but just something relating to plot. I mean, maybe there's room to bitch at GameArts or whoever it was that made that port (remake?) for adding it to begin with, but not at XSEED for not culling it.

>I would love with current rereleases and remasters, companies would devote some effort and include a newer, more faithful translation but that is expecting "too much".

Seems to take an exceptionally bad prior localization to prompt that (Muramasa for instance; I wager the only reason Aksys actually did a good job was that the Wii original was notorious to the point they could make a good selling point of having a better script), but even that's no guarantee, whether it be the current downward spiral in the industry, or older rereleases/remasters/remakes where the company didn't buy the old script, but also couldn't be fucked to do that much better either. Or hell, look at Capcom: I'm sure Breath of Fire II's SNES English script was notorious for a long time prior, but what did they do with the GBA port but port the same thing over rather than see it as an attempt to rectify it. And, then there's games that simply can't be remade or remastered at present, at least intact, because they wouldn't fly in the current climate, even if it wasn't intended to leave Japan.

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0df34c  No.16853256

>>16853198

>NISA for example clearly not being enthusiastic about Criminal Girls' content or audience, or Agetec on Wild Arms ACF if the script quality despite being delayed two years on grounds of "not wanting [it] to be poorly done" is any indication of interest levels.

Regarding NISA, I think it was in response to critisim for CG1 that NISA admitted on one of the sites reporting on it that NISA themselves don't have programmers, they are strictly localizers eg. editors, translators etc so whenever they have to localize a game, they send the english script back to NIS for them to insert it into the game which is why their games are notoriously buggy because nip programmers can't do english text.

I honestly don't understand why they don't just let a small company localize it if they clearly don't give a shit about the game, Pqube picked up small titles like Valkyrie Drive and Bullet Girls and did a decent enough job of it.

>I'd think the better idea would be to actually ask customers rather than make generalizations that "everyone" is possible audience, but even that's apt to get sabotaged unless you require some sort of "proof of purchase" to do so, which would at least weed out some of the "whines but plays nothing" types.

Don't companies in Japan when wanting to know more from their audience, send surveys with the products that you fill out and mail back? It's archaic in the west but something similar can be done digitally so it ensures that whoever has a copy of the game can give feedback to the devs without bad actors on twitter, resetera, journo etc being able to influence the company's actions. It doesn't even have to be a proof of purchase, have it as part of the game so even pirates who play it can have a say since they at least made the effort to play instead of simply whining. It's more effort and takes time to impliment but I think it would be a useful tool to see what your audience wants.

>But it really comes off as gall that they'd complain about the developers' apparent vision being left intact for once, and not even in regard to lewd or risque content, but just something relating to plot.

There was a project on rhdn to fix WD's games and I saw fanboys talking about it on the gaijinworks forums shiting on it for daring to present the original vision of the game because the infallible Victor Ireland improved these games with his memes and humor, without it it's a lesser product or the hackers are ruining their childhood. Ted Woosly also get's this treatment even though his bastardized a fair number of games himself when he worked at Square. I don't really understand it, these games were butchered when they first came to the west, in a remake or rerelease, it's an oppotunity to fix this and instead of being grateful these "fans" are rabid and demand they retain the butchering because their god decreed so.

>then there's games that simply can't be remade or remastered at present, at least intact, because they wouldn't fly in the current climate, even if it wasn't intended to leave Japan.

Ignoring social media, CERO themselves have gotten stricter in the past decade so games that might've been okay would be heavily censored today. Smash is a good example, compare when Melee was released to Ultimate, to keep the same rating in Japan, more has to be censored from panties to having the skirt too short, same with the 3DS remakes of Dragon Quest 7 and 8. What's even sadder is that CERO takes in to account other country's restrictions and censor to make sure it passes all rating systems so whenever game is more censored in the west, that's not because of the rating board but the localizer.

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02bfd0  No.16853281

>>16853256

I meant more how they censored the shit out of Criminal Girls, knowing it would piss what audience the series could have had out here right the hell off.

>they are strictly localizers eg. editors, translators etc so whenever they have to localize a game, they send the english script back to NIS for them to insert it into the game which is why their games are notoriously buggy because nip programmers can't do english text.

I wouldn't be entirely sure of that. Even with the change in language, if all the English materials are laid out in the same order a western team is given the Japanese ones to make equivalent of (with the calls, etc to identify them), I'd think that sending it back to the same people that made the game and know how to work with the code would be smarter than trying to figure out how it works themselves. Now, if they were sending other developers code to NIS with the localized materials and expecting their parent company to understand how it works, maybe, but given how willfully incompetent they are with translating, I'm more than willing to assume they opt to be cheap and try to insert it themselves (and usually break shit in doing so).

>I honestly don't understand why they don't just let a small company localize it if they clearly don't give a shit about the game, Pqube picked up small titles like Valkyrie Drive and Bullet Girls and did a decent enough job of it.

Criminal Girls was owned by NIS directly, even if they didn't make it themselves (that would be the late Imageepoch). Obviously, since they haven't seen reason to gut the hell out of NISA and staff it with competent people, or just dissolve it entirely and go with third parties as they did prior, they're going to keep using them for what they they own the rights to natively. Now, if it was just NISA handling NIS games, at least the cancer would be contained, but NISA isn't satisfied just being NIS' American (and European) branch, hence them shitting up games from Gust, Idea Factory (pre-IFI), Falcom, and other companies. I guess that's how a lot of localization companies are, really, in that even if they're a western branch of a parent company they seek extra work, but usually they're at least more savvy on the technical end than NISA's games wind up being. They've kept that crown of king shit for a reason. As for Pqube, I would not be shocked if they've been struggling to find worthwhile work in terms of bringing Japanese games over now, after being run through the ringer over Omega Labyrinth Z.

>Don't companies in Japan when wanting to know more from their audience, send surveys with the products that you fill out and mail back? It's archaic in the west

I don't know if Japan does. You're right that the west did it, but they certainly don't seem to anymore. Sometimes I'll still find one for the likes of Sega or Square in games at stores from PS2 or earlier. But I'd have to question how many people actually did them as opposed to leaving them in the cases. Or just throwing them out. And, looking at one I remembered seeing in my case for Blood Will Tell, that's without having to pay for postage either.

Actually, I decided to analyze that while I'm at it. They put a 10 day time limit on mailing it back, spent a full third of the tri-fold on data mining the buyer as "product registration", and went on to ask no such questions like "did you enjoy this game?" or "what can we do better in the future?" Fuck, any non-check box answer even has a limited character count for a response, with one per box. I doubt they got that much useful information, at least in terms of a better experience for customers, from the likes of this. Unless they did more detailed ones via email or something.

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02bfd0  No.16853282

File: 99520acd163d34a⋯.jpg (1.08 MB, 1200x1200, 1:1, 1382965096095.jpg)

>>16853256

>>16853281

>something similar can be done digitally so it ensures that whoever has a copy of the game can give feedback to the devs without bad actors on twitter, resetera, journo etc being able to influence the company's actions.

Issue is, places like twatter and other social media are probably considered a wider, easier to access pool to draw from. The fact that it's not being done in a way that the companies can accurately measure that someone bought the game and has a sunken interest in the product due to that suggests to me that they don't care. It would be a great thing to have make a comeback, but it's the sort of thing that would be hard to push them towards on a consumer/fan end.

>I don't really understand it, these games were butchered when they first came to the west, in a remake or rerelease, it's an oppotunity to fix this and instead of being grateful these "fans" are rabid and demand they retain the butchering because their god decreed so.

"Charm" seems to be a common thread I've seen in the past. That badly translated shit is just part of the experience and is worth keeping for future players to muddle through enjoy. I mean, I certainly find some in Liz's non-sequiturs in Wild Arms 2 ("Prepare for word torture!") humorous, but I'm also aware the game deserves, much, much better on the English script all around (felt like the editor was asleep at the wheel for both better and worse), and for all I know he meant entirely more sensible, intelligible things in Japanese. If it came to a retranslation, I wouldn't be surprised if he needed his lines entirely redone, and I'd be happier for it. But maybe it's that I didn't grow up with such lines, the way WD and Woolsey fans have with their choice of games, having only played it a few years back, so it wouldn't shock me if plenty of other people would much rather he stay a complete and unintentional loon.

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efb4eb  No.16853286

File: e6eed5107c3b6b5⋯.jpg (457.58 KB, 800x600, 4:3, Screenshot273.jpg)

My sorceress is level 95 and she still uses this.

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efb4eb  No.16853288

>>16853286

wrong thread and I can't delete the post.

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08a662  No.16853291

>>16853288

It's so annoying how we still can't delete our own posts. I feel your pain anon. Sage for offtopic

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0df34c  No.16853303

>>16853282

>I meant more how they censored the shit out of Criminal Girls, knowing it would piss what audience the series could have had out here right the hell off.

I'm guessing NISA is used to it and don't give a shit seeing they never take fan feedback to actually improve their products, instead they just keep trudging along without a care in the world.

>I'm more than willing to assume they opt to be cheap and try to insert it themselves (and usually break shit in doing so).

This is what I read from the NISA employee, for all I know they could be like you said, cheap out and attempt to insert it without the programming knowledge to do so. I have tried something similar, it is possible but inefficient and a waste of effort.

>As for Pqube, I would not be shocked if they've been struggling to find worthwhile work in terms of bringing Japanese games over now, after being run through the ringer over Omega Labyrinth Z.

Yeah, I really do feel bad for them after Sony fucked them over, they said they lost a lot because of it and I have no idea if their other projects were able to make up for it.

>Actually, I decided to analyze that while I'm at it. They put a 10 day time limit on mailing it back, spent a full third of the tri-fold on data mining the buyer as "product registration", and went on to ask no such questions like "did you enjoy this game?" or "what can we do better in the future?" Fuck, any non-check box answer even has a limited character count for a response, with one per box.

Oh, that is simply awful, no wonder this died out in the west.

I don't know about games but from the few manga I bought, it is much better in Japan, they give you a page with some multiple choice questions, you tick some boxes and you post it in and that's it, they don't try to datamine you for info or to send you ads for new products.

>The fact that it's not being done in a way that the companies can accurately measure that someone bought the game and has a sunken interest in the product due to that suggests to me that they don't care.

That's what's frustraing about this, I'm more than happy to fill out a survey, if that survey at least has some value and not going to be ignored in favor twitter, resetera and journo clout which somehow takes presedant over the people that actually play the game. Even the companies that "care" a little more like Xseed at the end of the day don't care enough to make the effort to gather fan feedback, they do listen if you post on their forums though and one change I can remember is not translating the Engrish in Senran Kagura to French which was a welcome one.

>"Charm" seems to be a common thread I've seen in the past.

I guess I'm just immune to that, there are games I played a long time ago and if they got a retranslation that is more faithful to the original script, I would be estatic because the developer's vision is more important than some localizer who thinks themselves to be a creative writer.

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02bfd0  No.16853577

>>16853303

>Oh, that is simply awful, no wonder this died out in the west.

Went to see what others of those I could find, as while it could have just been Sega being Sega (and the sheet was very tiny), it could also have been industry standard here.

>SCEA (PS2; Wild Arms 3)

Similar questions to Sega, only instead of asking specifics on what game you got the slip with and what system it was for, they wanted to know how many games you intend to buy that year and how many DVDs you own. Not especially helpful to consumer for feedback, but it seems like less a survey about the game and required questions to subscribe to Playstation Underground.

>Nintendo (GCN; Super Mario Sunshine)

Not so much a survey as much as Nintendo Power renewal.

>Atlus (PS2; Samurai Western)

Gains points for actually asking the consumer what they liked about the game and how they'd improve on it (which could be applied to game design or localization quality), as well as the somewhat pertinent (given the major focus of the company) how many RPG/SRPGs did one buy a year versus how many games they buy overall. Loses points because the space for the former is incredibly small, and for asking what website is your preferred place to get shilled at. But at least they actually asked for feedback about the game sold.

>Enix (PS1; Dragon Warrior VII)

Nothing about the game quality, and more how did the player hear about it, and where might they look for information on other games. Shilling.

>Squaresoft (PS1; Threads of Fate)

Mostly what previous games did the player own, genres enjoyed, and what aspects of games are the hooking factors. I suppose the latter could be used to determine what games are more worth bringing over, assuming it wasn't sent back to Square Japan in terms of "what is the west interested in us developing".

>Square-Enix (PS2; Radiata Stories)

Again, less about consumer feedback and more a "how much of a drone are you?" in asking what games of theirs one owns. And aside from personal details, that was literally ALL they asked.

>Konami (PS2; Suikoden III)

General survey without any real "feedback" elements. Clearly just them wanting to do analytics of who's buying what. Interestingly, Suikoden V does not seem to have had one, so maybe Konami had phased them out by then.

>Capcom (PS1; Breath of Fire III)

About the same as Konami above.

>Namco (PS2; Klonoa 2)

About the same as above. Oddly the RPGs I checked from them didn't seem to bother with these (not even a hint of a tear off, fold out crease in the manual, unlike Klonoa 2), but it could be just my luck.

>Midway (PS2; Shadow Hearts: Covenant)

Asks general information (preferred genres, systems owned) and what magazines the player reads. Not much to do with game feedback.

>Agetec (PS2; Forever Kingdom)

Pretty generic, but actually has a space for miscellaneous comments that could serve as game feedback.

>NISA (PS2: Atelier Iris)

In a baffling turn of events, they actually had both a miscellaneous comment section AND a "rate what you thought of this game in these categories" thing (which included voice acting and text). Granted, that may have been before they were really circling the bowl, and makes me curious as to if they kept asking that for later games they handled on the system. Clearly criticism isn't the sort of thing they really care to hear now, given how they continue to shit the bed and content to wallow in their reputation.

>XSEED

I actually checked a number of games, even as far back as the PS2 when they debuted (Wild Arms 4 and Shadow Hearts: From the New World being their earliest), and couldn't find any sort of survey or product registration. Then again, as such are preowned, if they were on their own sheet, they could have been thrown out, but they certainly didn't have tear out inserts in the manuals.

Most of those were all considered "Product Registration" as opposed to "survey" either, and all of them asking for personal details as opposed to having some sort of anonymous yet unique identification of the print. I suppose in the case of those trying to hock magazines or demo discs though, information for shipping would be kind of necessary.

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02bfd0  No.16853578

>>16853577

>twitter, resetera and journo clout which somehow takes presedant over the people that actually play the game.

I'd suspect that there's some belief that the majority of their audience are normalfags or varying degree, hence it being easier to hit normalfag sites to get opinion than expecting people to take the initiative of going elsewhere on their own. Restarea also has the issue of carrying over the reputation neofag had as a place where developers and publishers actually go, thus there's a sort of cyclical feedback where the people that use those sites expect "professional" attention and the companies expect that those there expect their presence.

>I would be estatic because the developer's vision is more important than some localizer who thinks themselves to be a creative writer.

Same, but sometimes it's just accidental ineptitude. That is, both are bad, but there's a chance that unintentional screw ups can be learned from to do better in the future, compared to will rewriting. Also, on "thinks themselves to be a creative writer", I think some companies outright seek those sorts out for editing positions on the idea that they can make things sound better. Ideally that would be more of the "second pair of eyes" sort of thing to avoid typos and grammatical issues in just having someone else give it a read, but they wouldn't need the writer to be "creative" then, thus leaving it to feel more like an open door for them to "leave their mark" on the game, overly localizing and rewriting because they apparently aren't able to get hired as an original author to do their own thing.

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02bfd0  No.16853699

>>16853578

Anyhow, here’s what I’d think in terms of a proper feedback/survey system: Online submission is certainly a valid possibility compared to mail-in, and especially since digital responses can allow for a lot of more room than something postcard size or smaller does. Some filters would need to be put in place though, either to ensure the person writing in actually bought the game in question, or that they actually cleared the final boss, and as a means of making shit anonymous, either have a unique production code on a slip in the case/digital purchase receipt, or a “clear code” that shows up at the end of the credits. The latter would do better toward reflecting the idea that most of the game has been seen and therefore be much more about the game itself with nothing more than a time investment required, but publishers being publishers and existing for profit, I suspect they’d be more apt to care about the former, since the latter could leave things open to their ever dreaded pirate boogeymen unless likewise made purchase unique (and thus rips would give the same one-use code). And of course, information is money, so I would expect they would be loathe to not ask for all sorts of personal data compared to just having the responder be a number in the system instead.

But in any case, I feel either would certainly be better than listening to low-character count twatter shitposting, or restarea running everything through their SJW filter, or journos/outlets that most likely aren’t even customers (in that they get free review codes to work with and press shit that lets them trash stuff before it’s even out if not paid off).

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799fa4  No.16854281

>>16853699

Sometimes you don't need to beat a game to know it's shit. That having been said if how much of a game the player actually finished concerns you, many devs use achievements to track that, which is why there are so many "clear chapter X" ones apparently. Steam for example would totally be set up for that sort of feedback system theoretically. Similarly some sort of console based account would also work, for the most part. I know Nintendo tracks playtime on the system itself somewhere, but I don't know if they have access to it and I'm pretty sure it's not even normally available to the player on Switch, so whatever. At the very least, amount of game played could factor into how they take the criticism.

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0df34c  No.16854374

>>16853577

>Most of those were all considered "Product Registration" as opposed to "survey" either, and all of them asking for personal details as opposed to having some sort of anonymous yet unique identification of the print.

I don't think Japanese companies are inherently better than western ones, it's all about profit afterall but this is at least one thing that Japan did right. You want your audience to be able to voice their opinion on your content and most people aren't willing to give up their anonymity especially if the product is designed for adults which does carry a stigma in soceity whether we like it or not.

>I'd suspect that there's some belief that the majority of their audience are normalfags or varying degree, hence it being easier to hit normalfag sites to get opinion than expecting people to take the initiative of going elsewhere on their own.

There is some truth to this sadly, from experience normalfags are zombie buyers who consume it wholesale without paying attention to any "controvisies" a product might have with the only thing that ever get's through is something big like EA's lootboxes but even then it's forgotten about after a week or so. It's not even that people don't critically look at the products they enjoy but they don't look at it in any deeper way that has to change their attitudes as a consumer, it's rare to see people actually having the principles to at least just pirate instead of buying the game because it was censored or altered in some way and if it's on PC simply expect mods to fix it when it shouldn't be left to the audience to fix the product.

>Restarea also has the issue of carrying over the reputation neofag had as a place where developers and publishers actually go, thus there's a sort of cyclical feedback where the people that use those sites expect "professional" attention and the companies expect that those there expect their presence.

I know the reputation but have no idea why any industry people use the site, it's clear to anyone observing it that the constant purity tests only create an echochamber and an extremely ideological one that stifles any sembalance of creativity, catering to these people is dooming your game to fail before it started selling as there is no pleasing ideologues, the only "win" you can have is handing all creative control over to them. I've yet to see a resetera approved game that is actually good, they are all pretencious garbage that plays like shovelware while shoving social justice politics down your throat, it's the least fun experience you can have.

>Ideally that would be more of the "second pair of eyes" sort of thing to avoid typos and grammatical issues in just having someone else give it a read, but they wouldn't need the writer to be "creative" then, thus leaving it to feel more like an open door for them to "leave their mark" on the game, overly localizing and rewriting because they apparently aren't able to get hired as an original author to do their own thing.

You do need people that can sometimes shorten sentences or names to fit the space constraints and retain the original meaning so some creativity is needed, the problem is a lot of editors are just failed writers who narcissistically think they know better than the original devs and will happily butcher a script because they are clearly more talented than those japs, Vic Ireland is a great example, he actually think he "improved" the games he localized and without him, Japanese games in the west would be stuck with boring, dry scripts.

>I feel either would certainly be better than listening to low-character count twatter shitposting, or restarea running everything through their SJW filter, or journos/outlets that most likely aren’t even customers (in that they get free review codes to work with and press shit that lets them trash stuff before it’s even out if not paid off).

Indeed.

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02bfd0  No.16854547

>>16854374

>I know the reputation but have no idea why any industry people use the site

Probably after a certain point, they use those because other developers/publishers had.

>I've yet to see a resetera approved game that is actually good, they are all pretencious garbage that plays like shovelware while shoving social justice politics down your throat, it's the least fun experience you can have.

Doesn't surprise me that when it comes to pushing how woke they are or whatever social issue they think needs promotion, fun can take a backseat for such devs and their intended audience. And/or they consider fun to be immature.

>>16854281

>Playtime

That could also work, but would have to have a way to distinguish time active, and not just that the game was left idle for most of that because the person giving feedback didn't actually want to play it but still wanted to try to exert influence.

>Achievements/username accounts

Would probably be a bit better, but there's still the issue of someone just skipping through as much as they could to get to the end. Maybe combine with time played.

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0df34c  No.16855426

>>16854547

>Doesn't surprise me that when it comes to pushing how woke they are or whatever social issue they think needs promotion, fun can take a backseat for such devs and their intended audience. And/or they consider fun to be immature.

Probably the latter, I remember naughty dog saying that the last of us 2 isn't "fun" because it's a "mature" game that needs to be taken seriously and that's pretty obvious with the trailer considering what it put front and center.

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02bfd0  No.16858014

Aretha II apparently got a v0.91 patch released. Being by Dynamic-Designs, it's likely worth scrutinizing/distrust of, and they've knowingly released in without all the kinks worked out because they apparently don't have the know-how to fix them anymore due to staff downsizing or project spread, or something. Really, I suppose the whole series is apt to need looking at, as the first two have been handled by Dynamic-Designs while the third got picked up by AG a long time ago. Though I suppose with the latter, it's apt to be a question of whether or not it ever even gets finished; going off news articles, it's been "in the works" for at least twelve years now. Clearly low priority.

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bd6a70  No.16860713

RHDN drama escalated.

They started to go after anyone who condemned their administration for how they supported the harassment, starting with https://twitter.com/MrRichard999 (84 translations), banning him and preventing the release of a team effort because he was involved.

It's available on zophar. I downloaded his 84 translations just in case.

https://twitter.com/MrRichard999/status/1232099312567488512

Will finish a few remaining things and drop that wiki link here and other places whenever it's ready.

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799fa4  No.16860835

>>16860713

Depends on if any high profile (or at least prolific) translators get fucked, but if so then maybe they could get together and make a new platform. I'm sure RHDN is slightly outdated enough that it could be improved upon as well, theoretically at least. I'm saying it's viable that there could be a turning point, if done well.

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02bfd0  No.16863755

>>16823977

Another thing that might be worth adding:

Any translation/editing outsourced to vidya journofags.

This is apparently something that's starting. Saw the other day that Moon: Remix RPG Adventure getting a Switch port is apparently being considered an excuse for the game to finally be brought over (after fan-translations for it never went much of anywhere), and from what I've further seen, a goony-looking mohawk who writes for Kotaku is on the English script team. After all their complaining about Japanese media over the years, I suppose they're finally being given a chance to have direct impact on them, at least here. Granted, modern localization trends are a shitshow in most cases anyhow, but there's that, and then there's this Bubsy-esque "what could possibly go wrong?" decision on Onion Games' part. Assuming Kimura remotely cares that western audiences are given a proper experience, anyhow.

In short though, I really don't trust that what we're given will actually be faithful, and I hope that putting journofags in the actual localization process doesn't catch on as required "staff diversity" or whatever.

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e62f42  No.16864467

File: 1d2dba81081bf59⋯.png (156.23 KB, 618x882, 103:147, look at my disability meda….png)

File: f756597a36c7f3e⋯.png (15.45 KB, 505x252, 505:252, Goemon_3_Fan-Translation_C….png)

Yes, this is indeed the perfect kind of person to gatekeep your online community.

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