6d63bb No.16666081
Why isn't the PS2 considered retro but the Dreamcast is?
It's going to be three generations behind next year.
Is it because the Dreamcast is from the 90s?
cd13c2 No.16666084
16ff18 No.16666085
The dreamcast is relatively obscure because it was a commercial flop, this means you gain social credit for being into it. The PS2 is the best selling non-meme console of all time Wii being a family toy that most got 1-2 games for and played only the included sports game on anyway so you can't feel special playing it or talking about it.
Shenmue is one of the most overrated games of all time.
07db38 No.16666089
Because the last PS2 game was released in 2014
58d0a8 No.16666093
>>16666081
6th gen is retro, it just sounds like you've been hanging around the stubborn cucks over at >>>/cuckchan/ /vr/. A system that's old enough to vote and join the military is retro.
>>16666085
>The dreamcast is relatively obscure
If you're a casual faggot.
58d0a8 No.16666095
>>16666085
>Shenmue is one of the most overrated games of all time.
t. Nigger
cd13c2 No.16666098
>>16666095
have you seen sailors XD
81adc7 No.16666123
>>16666081
Because it's the pinnacle of gaming. It can't never be retro.
b20c36 No.16666137
>>16666098
>Its bad because of memes.
That’s a sword that cuts both ways
>Le cliff racers XD, Le chim
>What a shame, GEP gun XD
>Spurs go jingle jangle, Big Iron XD
Now all of /v/‘s favorite games are shit.
7c2bce No.16666139
I don't consider anything retro until it is at least 20-25 years after it's official production release has ended. I think NES still has new games coming out for it even today by companies just repurposing common video game cartridges to sell.
ef9556 No.16666147
>>16666081
>Is it because the Dreamcast is from the 90s?
Yes
>It's going to be three generations behind next year.
There has to be a cutting point or otherwise the Wii and X360 will also be retro and retro will pretty much an age thing rather than a period.
In terms of the industry at the time though? Yeah, it's definitely a retro console and not modern cancer.
396483 No.16666161
The ps2 will never be retro
b7a0e8 No.16666169
Every console is "retro" because they lack the power of the PC
016de9 No.16666171
>>16666095
Yakuza is everything Shenmue should have been. Shenmue brought us the cancer that is quick-time events as a substitute for actual gameplay.
265f78 No.16666247
>>16666085
Yeah its hilarious how many people love the Dreamcast now. If only they had been around in 2000 Sega would have beaten Sony!
Also retro are collector fags not gamers. No point collecting PS2 stuff because its not rare.
2596b3 No.16666250
>>16666137
>Now all of /v/‘s favorite games are shit.
Nobody actually likes Shenmue, ironically enough it suits the phrase "bad meme game" since nobody can find an explicable reason to like it. Shenmue helped kill Sega at best.
265f78 No.16666262
>>16666250
I liked it and for all the reasons people here hate it. Its a walking simulator adventure game that relies on its story. I won't even discuss the game because its pointless.
71c0fe No.16666263
>>16666247
Ok, I could be mistaken, but the Dreamcast flopped because pirates cracked the copy protection on it and could crap out CD-ROM versions of the Dreamcast games. When Sega realized their utter incompetence at anti-piracy stuff they copped out of the console game forever.
2596b3 No.16666307
>>16666262
It's an overbudgeted mediocre detective adventure with an unfinished revenge plot whose mystery ends with the chink man that murdered your father leaving for hong kong since he's a chink. Its merits revolve around the modeled environments, unique character models and inane conversations that would be more bearable if the english dub wasn't shit. Discussing merit is pointless since most of it is just budget, except the english dub is shittier than it should be since Yu Suzuki windowshopped VAs with paid trips from Sega.
be27cf No.16666316
>>16666263
>It's all piracy's fault!
Oh, you're one of those industry bootlicker NPC types. Good for you.
>>16666250
Shenmue was an excellent game. At the time of its release, there was no better home port of Space Harrier, and we didn't get the Yu Suzuki Game Works, so…
46cfaa No.16666317
>>16666263
Nope, the Dreamcast made money but not enough to cover the cost of Sega's previous failures: The Genesis addons and Saturns made Sega to leave the console race.
2596b3 No.16666332
>>16666316
>Shenmue was an excellent game
Now say why without using arcade ports as an excuse.
cd13c2 No.16666337
>>16666317
If it was making them money why would they bail out just 2 years into its lifespan?
be27cf No.16666343
>>16666332
>Now say why without using arcade ports as an excuse.
Well, no, of course I can't do that. If you disregard Space Harrier it's abysmal trash. A boring story with terrible voice acting, and it's rather literally the birthplace of the QTE.
If you take away the thing that makes it an excellent game, it's no longer an excellent game.
dac0b2 No.16666347
I like both, but prefer the PS2 more. Now the real subject is why should anyone give a shit about the N64 when the Saturn is a far superior machine?
46cfaa No.16666375
>>16666337
Because Sega was in very deep debts.
ef38d6 No.16666408
>>16666263
> pirates cracked the copy protection on it
Actually it came that way out of the box on a lot of models
You can buy specific Dreamcast models that run burned CDs right off the bat without any modification necessary
But supposedly, burned discs make the Dreamcast laser die faster than it normally would
b59518 No.16666409
>>16666337
Sega did the exact same thing Nintendo did with the WiiU with less than half the support from the fans, that is, they jumped ship too fast from Saturn to Dreamcast and AFTER the Genesis addon flops as mentioned above.
b59518 No.16666414
>>16666408
More or less due to how the laser has to work a lot more with those burned discs.
dac0b2 No.16666420
>>16666414
No, it's no different than reading from a pressed disc. The problem is the CD reading mode dreamcast uses for executable data, it uses MIL-CD which when it starts reading it is never not powering the laser. This means if you're using a CD game, the system is in MIL-CD mode for streaming (for karaoke) and is going full blast at all times instead of turning on only when it needs to.
71c0fe No.16666423
>>16666408
There was still copy protection on it. The burned cd-roms had to be scrambled in a certain way so that when the built-in scrambler read the cd-rom the resulting executable would work. Does this make sense, or am I just making a mess of the explanation?
2596b3 No.16666429
>>16666347
Nobody cares about your gaming cred chart.
adfd57 No.16666438
57382b No.16666441
>>16666408
>But supposedly, burned discs make the Dreamcast laser die faster than it normally would
No, lasers are just less likely to read a burnt disc if they are dying, since the groves aren't as deep as a pressed disc. The laser doesn't magically push itself harder because it's having issues reading, it just tries a few times and gives up.
>>16666420
>MIL-CD = Karaoke
No. I play nothing but burnt games, and the disc frequently stops spinning and just sits there. The disc will spin whenever streaming audio off a game, which some DC games used, others just have it compressed into the last MODE1 chunk on the high density area. If all burnt games spun constantly, I would have noticed.
If anything, burnt games are actually BETTER for your DC than the original pressed discs since the more recent CDI's have repacked the data to be closer to the edge to cut down on the passing of the carriage from the edge to the spindle when it reads. Since for some bizarre reason the DC reads from the outside in, yet game makers put all the data from the inside leading out like on normal CD's. The smaller the game, the more of a benefit you will notice as the drive has to work less to read the same data.
dac0b2 No.16666461
>>16666429
the people love it
>>16666441
I've read it has to do more with how the data is stored on a CD vs a GDRom, on a GDR you can clearly see where the high density portion of the disc is.
powering the laser =/= powering the motor however, read closer
>for some bizarre reason the DC reads from the outside in
GDRs high density sectors are on the outside of the disc
b7a0e8 No.16666475
>>16666423
>>16666408
>Scrambled encryption on discs
No way. I mean it could be there, but the way copy protection on discs worked had to do with laser thickness. Consumer-level electronics would have a thinner, read-only laser, which could read both the game data and the copy data. When authoring the disc, it was very difficult to get a thinner write-only laser, which could copy and reproduce the copy information. Normal consumer CD/DVD burners only had thicker lasers
71c0fe No.16666479
>>16666475
You seem to be confused about something. The stock Dreamcast can read CD-ROMs just fine, but scrambles the executable if it exists. The trick pirates used was to pre-scramble the executable so it would be unscrambled when the Dreamcast would try to scramble it.
607c3b No.16666499
>>16666263
>the Dreamcast flopped because pirates
WRONG
Sega was already hemorrhaging money when the Dreamcast released, with Nakayama suggesting Sega exit the hardware business as far back as 1997. When the Dreamcast actually under-performed in its Japan launch, SoJ likely decided the system should be killed, regardless of its brief success in America in 1999. And then PS2 was announced. Sony advertised all these features like DVD playback, and then started showing off games like MGS2 which made the PS2 look like a true multi-media powerhouse compared to DC. The Dreamcast was almost doomed to fail from the start. By the time DC piracy was honed to a science circa 2001, the system was already declared dead.
>>16666161
t. 4um /vr/
044cc6 No.16666503
>>16666375
>Saturn's economic impact after the 32x and sega CD shitshow
One bad idea after another with their hardware division. Shame they didn't get their collective heads out their asses until the dreamcast.
dac0b2 No.16666513
>>16666503
As sad as I am how it went down for Sega (we all know the Gamecube should have been Nintendo's last console), the insight in to their decline was something else. It's hard to fathom any other first party approving a game like Segagaga.
2596b3 No.16666534
>>16666461
You'd do a better job building up interest giving people a list of games and gameplay footage to see if it's worth bothering with or not, hell over half the list is arcade ports.
dac0b2 No.16666536
>>16666534
The idea is if you're looking at the list you're already interested
2596b3 No.16666550
>>16666536
The only people you're inciting are collectors.
dac0b2 No.16666584
>>16666550
Well that's a retarded leap in logic, I'll be sure to filter you
599812 No.16666780
The Dreamcast isn't retro, it's just old. It would be retro if at the time it was released it was made to resemble a machine from 1970 or 1980.
16ff18 No.16666850
>>16666247
>Also retro are collector fags not gamers. No point collecting PS2 stuff because its not rare.
And emulation is pretty advanced.
>>16666095
Everything it gets praise for is incidental non-gameplay, its actual gameplay such as it even exists is shit. Basically a prototype for the movie non-games we'd get later down to the QTEs.
>>16666262
At least you're willing to admit it.
546d02 No.16666856
This isn't /vr/ OP, and they only whitelisted it after 8th generation there because of popular demand for it, and for it being in between the capabilities of 5th and 6th generation. God help them when the time comes to consider Halo as retro.
>>16666169
Power doesn't make good games, as has constantly been demonstrated even among just consoles. It's all about the developers developers developers developers developers developers.
2596b3 No.16666861
>>16666584
You are retarded for posting a shitty chart.
8e2b2d No.16666889
>PS2
>fucking retro
where's the time gone?
I still recall buying new PS1 games at walmart (albeit that was at very nearly the end of production, maybe 04).
f3d779 No.16666895
>>16666889
I only just got one a year or two ago and still haven't played most of its most well known games. I don't like emulating this generation, so I ended up getting and modding all four of them and both handhelds
2596b3 No.16666911
>>16666861
Mind, it really isn't hard to use databases like gamefaqs and mobygames to look up games, look up 'games for x consols' on jewtube and binge on a torrent as long as you don't have a data cap, have the freetime and aren't a subhuman fucking retard. If you can't be assed to do something that simple then you'd be assed to get any relevant discussion from just posting the majority of the Saturn library just without shovelware, sports sims and budget Japanese releases. The non-st-v arcade ports are just being used to fill up the chart with irrelevant shit unless the aim is to lure ants that just collect shit instead of just using fucking mame or fba, god forbid arcade laserdisc fmv port trash, download a fucking video.
c3c78a No.16667022
>>16666085
>Shenmue is one of the most overrated games of all time.
>>>/cuckchan/ you contrarian shit
2596b3 No.16667068
>>16667022
You sound like a brat chasing dead memes to look cool.
167ef0 No.16667071
>>16667022
>Someone shares opinion you disagree with
>sperg out and demand they leave
I bet if you could you would have downvoted him too you worthless faggot.
58f9e1 No.16667223
>>16666169
>bothers to look up definition of retro
>doesn't even use it correctly despite this
84e18f No.16667241
>>16666081
>Why isn't the PS2 considered retro but the Dreamcast is?
It lasted until 2014 and still saw regular releases well into the 7th gen, the DC died mid 2000s and really didn't have that much activity past 2003
>>16666408
>But supposedly, burned discs make the Dreamcast laser die faster than it normally would
They can make it so that the drive has to retry after errors more often but I don't think it has that huge of an impact, you'll see a dead drive easier due to the usual pressed vs burnt.
Movies on PS2 though that will fuck your drive over time really badly.
>>16666856
>Power doesn't make good games, as has constantly been demonstrated even among just consoles
But lack of it can certainly shit all over a game, although if the game is good enough people will usually forgive it for running like garbage, like MGS3
a196d5 No.16667413
>>16666850
Yeah thats a good point. Anyone interested in playing PS2 games instead of displaying them in a cabinet or whatever it is collectors do can just download an emulator.
dac0b2 No.16667425
>>16667241
>But lack of it can certainly shit all over a game
Not really, it tends not to matter much. Can probably count the number of times performance was truly detrimental to my enjoyment of a game. Can only think of Turok 3.
e8f6e3 No.16667536
>>16666247
>No point collecting PS2 stuff because its not rare.
japanese PS2 isos are a bitch to find for some reason, even emuparadise was quite poor to provide such things.
dac6aa No.16667565
>>16667241
>But lack of it can certainly shit all over a game
That is too true, but it's not necessarily fair to blame the console for being anemic, rather the developers for making it do more than it can and not optimizing or stripping down the graphics. This is a constant source of pain with handheld ports from console or PC.
6d3191 No.16667575
>>16666081
>Why isn't the PS2 considered retro
it isn't?? since when?
79c772 No.16668188
>>16666081
>Why isn't the PS2 considered retro but the Dreamcast is?
Support for the Dreamcast was dropped in 2001 due to Sega's financial troubles. This was around when N64 and PS1 dropped support as well despite being a generation earlier. By contrast, PS2 didn't drop official support until about 2013 even though most developers moved on around 2006 when the PS3 came out. By now, most game forums consider all of gen6 retro. I've seen some consider gen7 retro seeing as we're in the tail end of gen8, but I personally don't.
I consider GC/Xbox retro seeing as support ended around 2005-2007 which was 12+ years ago. Realistically, PS2 lost most support around the same time. Only 4/vr/ argues gen6 (minus Dreamcast) isn't retro. (I wouldn't care if they excluded gen6 as a whole, but allowing just the Dreamcast is arbitrary at this point because its games and processing power are closer to gen6 than gen5 despite being the weaker console.)
>>16666856
>God help them when the time comes to consider Halo as retro.
Halo is 18 years old. It's old enough to vote.
79c772 No.16668196
>>16666850
>>16667413
I'm not a collector, but I do keep some of my physical games for sentimental value even though I could just sell them and play the ROMs. I play games I own as physical, and the rest I use flashcarts or some other method of playing ROMs. (Sometimes I even use ROMs for games I own due to save limitations, different game versions, etc.) I understand collectorfags wanting physical copies, but what I don't understand is collectorfags who collect games they don't even play.
f6461b No.16668210
>PS2
>dreamcast
<retro
you have to be out 30 years to be retro
c81fa4 No.16668227
I consider a console "retro" when it needs special/old equipment to play it (or are from the same era for handheld). PS1/N64 and under meet that because modern TVs don't support their resolution. PS2 supports component cables, Dreamcast does not.
When TVs start dropping component cable slots, I'll consider the PS2 retro.
79c772 No.16668327
>>16668210
>you have to be out 30 years to be retro
That's retarded. I could see 20 years being a cutoff, but with 30 years you're basically saying that anything in the later half of gen4 or newer isn't retro.
>Game Gear (1990) isn't retro
>Super NES/Famicom (1990) isn't retro
>Sega CD (1991) isn't retro
>>16668227
Most TVs started dropping component inputs years ago. Almost all of them still support composite though, so even NES games can be played on a modern TV without a converter. (Composite looks like garbage on modern TVs, but it's still playable, mind you.)
f6461b No.16668343
>>16668327
all that shit except sega CD will be retro next year, calm your niggertits
0decbd No.16668392
excum me but I want to check >>16666666
519f59 No.16668466
>>16666081
Besides the obvious thing about how the dreamcast was last place and was only in the market for 4 years so it's now more in the same camp that older systems do. Likely too is that most retro forums have had to accept it because of demand.
In contrast the PS2 is very common and it's availability through emulators and the fat PS3s means that it hasn't really been that gone. Probably just this weird quality of availability, age and how much people choose to scalp for anything relating to the console. I mean shit you can find PS2s with controllers, cables and memcards for less than 30 easily. Can't say the same about the N64 let alone most older consoles.
8b7fb6 No.16668483
Retro is also kinda MUH SECRET CLUB.
They don't want to get the popular PS2 in.
519f59 No.16668493
>>16668466
I should make an addendum, last time I was looking I had no problem finding the complete cable and 2 controller set for less than 30 but it seems to have risen to around 40-50. Still relatively low, but not what I claimed, apologies.
227924 No.16668499
>>16666081
When was it not? Last I checked, everyone that matters agrees that any console that used analog video signals is retro
730ac9 No.16668528
>>16666247
> No point collecting PS2 stuff because its not rare.
Gamestop faggot, possibly nintendroid detected.
The ultra mainstream shit like Final Fantasy isn't rare, obviously. Now, look up the true gems of the system? Good luck finding a working copy of Rule of Rose or Steambot Chronicles. Or, heaven fucking forbid a working, non scratched copy of Robotic Alchemeric Drive.
Hell Haunting Grounds has reached the point niggers are selling bootlegs on Ebay as "reproductions"
607c3b No.16668534
>>16668499
>everyone that matters agrees that any console that used analog video signals is retro
In that case, 7th gen is retro
>Xbox 360 launched with no HDMI support, didn't support it until 2007
>PS3 had HDMI support, but initially shipped with composite cables
>Wii never had HDMI, highest quality was 480p via component
59cf4f No.16668544
>>16668528
I got a working copy of rule of rose I'll sell for $300 bucks. Most depressing game I've ever played. You don't even escape. Just more sadness.
227924 No.16668555
>>16668534
Don't be a facetious faggot. I'm talking about everything that used RCA as it's default input. Wii is an exception because of it's controller tech.
e65f97 No.16668568
>>16666263
Physical piracy on the Dreamcast is pretty tough. As your pic says Sega used GD-ROM disks instead of CD-ROM, they had a 900mb cap instead of the 700 of the CD. I have yet to find reliable 900mb CD-ROMs to be able to burn DC games to.
79c772 No.16668837
>>16668343
You're missing the point. Your 30-year restriction still excludes gen5 entirely, which most people agree is retro.
>Sega Saturn (1994) wouldn't be retro until 2024
>PlayStation (1994) wouldn't be retro until 2024
>Nintendo 64 (1996) wouldn't be retro until 2026
>Game Boy Color (1998) wouldn't be retro until 2028 (assuming it's not lumped in with the original Game Boy)
730ac9 No.16669010
>>16668544
It's one of the games Atlus should be remaking, instead of shit like Catherine.
>Horror games will never get quality remakes.
>Just shit like the Silent Hill collection that ruins the atmosphere and gives us shitty voice actors.
Feels bad man.exe
>>16668210
>>16668837
I feel Retro is a concept. If you experienced it first hand, when it was the hottest thing, it will never be "retro" to you.
How can it be retro if you were there? You're not bringing it back like the retro-fags are trying to do. You're simply reliving. It's why it's so easy to tell when indie developers have never played a retro game in their lives.
Retro should only apply to consoles and systems people are too young to have experienced.
For example : For me, everything before the NES is retro. I experienced the NES, my gaming experience was shaped by shit like Kirby's Adventure, Golgo 13 and Bionic Commando.
For my nephews, everything before the PS4 is retro. Their gaming experience is shaped by Minecraft, Fortnite, Resident Evil 7 and the remakes.
2596b3 No.16669019
>>16669010
Retro is a bad meme used by resellers to fluctuate prices of copies of games, attaching yourself to that concept makes you look retarded.
730ac9 No.16669031
>>16669019
Yeah, it's why I'm all for piracy if physical copies can't be found.
>Just want to play a game that got destroyed during the fire.
>Rival Schools
>RETRO PS1 GAME
>$259 NEW
>$69.99 USED
Fuck this.
2596b3 No.16669041
>>16669010
It's one of the games Atlus should be remaking, instead of shit like Catherine.
It also takes only 5 seconds to make sure what you're saying doesn't look dumb.
>>16669031
I don't get why that's a if, it's not like shitskins care about the morality of pirating old games, it's not like you're supporting a 'healthy' market fueled by jackasses buying shit up just to sell it back to you at a higher price.
c3402c No.16669063
>>16666081
normalniggers haven't realized that the PS2 came out almost 20 years ago.
ef38d6 No.16669085
>>16669010
>random usa publisher
>remaking game
On top of that, why would you want remakes of horror games when the original jank and atmosphere is what makes them great? A modern remake wouldn't even follow the style of REmake and completely go against what made that particular one such a success
0bfc33 No.16669202
Why the FUCK isn't the Renaissance considered part of the middle ages by now? It's been over 500 years already for fucks sake.
3f6444 No.16669205
>>16669010
Except Atlus wasn't the developer or even the original publisher and thus has no claim to being able to. And considering the "controversy" about Rule of Rose, I expect Sony wants nothing more to do with the game. A reprint would be nice, but Atlus doesn't do those for games their JP branch doesn't develop themselves.
e1e2ca No.16669940
>>16668544
You can get the ISO. Zero $€.
5726c8 No.16670239
I see retro in regards to gaming as something else entirely separated from just age. Basically the year 2000 separates it to me. Consoles released before 2000 are retro. Games released for these consoles but came after 2000 can still be retro but they need to be old enough. For this I'd probably say before 2010. The game can still have that retro feel of course even if it isn't a retro game. I know this might seem like stupid rules to some but who the hell cares. Are we really rational people us anons? No we are not.
At the very least PS2 should never be considered retro since its qualities are way too different from what came before it. Also why not consider Xbox retro and therefore the Halo games retro? What did that strike a nerve in some of you? That is why sixth gen of consoles shouldn't be retro. It needs another term. On tv I see those music channels and they got named categories for music from certain eras. One that pops out in my mind although I can't remember the exact years that channel's music was is a channel that referred to the music as solid gold oldies. Lets just say its music from the 50's decade. Why can't 60's, 70's and 80's also be referred to as solid gold oldies? Hell even 90's since that is long ago now? How come every time people think of the 80's they think of it in meme terms with all those bright vibrant colors and Michael Jackson music even though he made music well after the 80's as well? See this stupid argument can just go on forever. Retro games basically are games and consoles prior to 2000. Lets just keep it that way and give a new term to what came after. Oh and I just thought of another thing. How come WWI is known as the great war but WWII doesn't get any other cool name besides WWII? WWII was worst so it was an even greater war. This is just getting stupid now. I am stopping.
Let the meme culture of retro games keep their identity. No need to monkey this up or else soon we will be regarding garbage like The Last of Us as retro. Yuck
008732 No.16670567
I consider retro to be the 2D era, with the 5th gen acting as a transitional phase. The way I see it, we're still in the paradigm of video games that kicked off with the PS2. The way people design games hasn't radically changed, things have just gotten more polished and tightened up. For the PS2 to become retro, video games have to go through another big paradigm shift like the jump from 2D to 3D, and that probably wont happen until real VR is viable.
199586 No.16670623
>>16666081
We only consider the 2d era to be retro games.
607c3b No.16671061
Great, looks like cuckchan found the thread. 6th gen is retro. The only people who disagree are niggers afraid of shit aging and being reminded that they're posturing cynical pretentious niggers afraid of getting old.
>>16670239
Go back to >>>/cuckchan/ /vr/
>At the very least PS2 should never be considered retro since its qualities are way too different from what came before it.
How, because it has a higher polygon count? The PS2 has hardware driven interlaced output for most of its games, something that was entirely phased out come the 7th gen. That's pretty fucking retro.
>Also why not consider Xbox retro and therefore the Halo games retro? What did that strike a nerve in some of you?
Yes and no. Xbox is retro just as the Gamecube is. The systems are old enough to vote and join the military. Yes, it was weird at first for them to be retro, but they're old as fuck and stopped receiving support years ago.
>It needs another term.
Lynch yourself nigger. The last thing we need is more pointless segmented eras for old shit. You're just afraid of 6th gen being retro because it reminds of your age.
>This is just getting stupid now. I am stopping.
Good, you sound like a babbling illiterate nigger who just got off from cuckchan /vr/ and want people to think you're some oldfag.
>Let the meme culture of retro games keep their identity.
<wants to make another meme culture for exclusively for the 6th gen.
>No need to monkey this up or else soon we will be regarding garbage like The Last of Us as retro.
The Dykes of Us will be retro to the dumbfuck gen z kids who grew up with it. No I don't like it either, but that's how it works. At best you can keep pointing out its flaws so it at least it won't be remembered fondly like some older games are.
7th gen will be retro down the line whether you like or not. Time is linear, shit gets old, and there's fuck all you can do about it. Nut up and deal with it.
>Yuck
On second thought
>>>/reddit/
>>>/twitter/
>>>/resetera/
>>>/facebook/
Might be more your speed.
>>16670567
>The way I see it, we're still in the paradigm of video games that kicked off with the PS2.
How? The 6th gen is just an extension of the 5th gen just with higher poly counts and the burgeoning of online console multiplayer. I remember 10 years ago people didn't consider the PS1 retro at all, now it is.
>>16670623
No one elected you to speak for the board nigger.
2596b3 No.16671150
>>16671061
>muh aging software
>muh retro collectionigger investments
Nobody elected you to speak for everyone else either retard.
607c3b No.16671157
>>16671150
>retro collectionigger investments
I didn't say anything related to collectorkikes, nigger brain.
008732 No.16671169
>>16671061
PS1 is transitional. It has one foot in 2D game design, and one foot in 3D. A lot of big PS1 games like Crash Bandicoot or Metal Gear Solid, were basically still made with a 2D design mentality.
2596b3 No.16671173
>>16671157
Then I have no idea why you're pretending to care about semantics that only resellers and scene brats give a shit about.
607c3b No.16671175
>>16671169
And PS1 and PS2 are retro. PS2 had games rooted in 2D design mentality.
2596b3 No.16671179
>>16671175
The PS3 and Vita both have 2D games.
008732 No.16671180
>>16671175
Niche games for weirdos like Odinsphere, sure. Those 2D style games were still actually a big deal on the PS1 though. Crash Bandicoot is THE PS1 game for a lot of people.
31a908 No.16671181
>>16671169
It's always true to some degree. Quite a few of early 7th gen games (say until 2008 or so) for instance were still made with a 6th gen mentality, just better graphics and more expansive which is why I like them much more than the cancer that came later.
607c3b No.16671234
>>16671173
Because those resellers and scene brat niggers think they dictate what "retro" fucking means and therefor what systems are "retro", as if the term implies a fucking cut-off date.
>>16671180
And none of that hemming and hawing about 2D and 3D game design changes that 5th and 6th gen are fucking old as shit and objectively retro.
008732 No.16671242
>>16671234
I don't think retro is purely about age. Something has to pass out of current relevancy first. The Simpsons is thirty years old, but no one considers it a retro show, because it's still on. I would argue Star Trek TNG is also not a retro show, because it's never not on TV. It never passed from the public consciousness.
607c3b No.16671252
>>16671242
>age
It does have to deal with age. No, your attempts at using relativist bullshit and subjectivity like a retarded millennial doesn't change what it means.
>Something has to pass out of current relevancy first.
There's an entire generation of gamer faggots who have no memory of when the 6th gen started and how relevant it was. It's that fucking old, and therefor retro.
>The Simpsons is thirty years old, but no one considers it a retro show,
Because it's still running.
>I would argue Star Trek TNG is also not a retro show, because it's never not on TV.
The show ended decades ago, it's fucking retro. Syndication is not indicative if a TV show is retro.
008732 No.16671267
>>16671252
It does't matter if they actually played the PS2. They're still essentially playing the PS2. Watchdogs 3 is just GTA 3 with a bit more polish. We're in the same paradigm.
607c3b No.16671278
>>16671267
>Watchdogs 3 is just GTA 3 with a bit more polish.
Nigger, the Watchsoy games have a bunch of fucking mechanics not even in GTA3. If your argument is that they're both "open world" and there for not retro, then fucking Daggerall is still technically a modern game you disingenuous retard.
>We're in the same paradigm.
By your dumbass logic every game that builds on mechanics from another generation isn't retro. So game that use buttons as a means of input are not retro, we're in the same paradigm.
008732 No.16671280
>>16671278
Well buttons certainly aren't retro. How long have buttons been around? A century?
31a908 No.16671284
>>16671267
Not even close. GTA III is much simpler in many areas. And yet it's more fun.
607c3b No.16671287
>>16671280
Quit being an intellectually dishonest faggot since your relativist retardation can't justify any of your arguments about what is and isn't retro.
008732 No.16671289
>>16671287
Stop being mad. Everything I say makes sense. Are sandwiches retro? No. People eat sandwiches every day. It's not purely about the age of a thing. It's about how far the thing has passed from relevancy.
607c3b No.16671311
>>16671289
>Stop being mad.
Stop being a dumbass.
>Everything I say is retarded
Yes, yes it is. Using relativism to change what words mean tends to that.
>It's about how far the thing has passed from relevancy.
Says the nigger using examples of games that are barely alike.
008732 No.16671314
>>16671311
The whole open world genre is just GTA3 with gimmicks.
e62c94 No.16671319
I would call the PS2 the very last retro console. It was released only a few months into 2000, when 5th gen was still going strong. What people get confused about it is that its lifecycle continued for a long time, and its last game was made in 2014. The console and its era are decidedly retro, but it also saw swathes of games designed with modern standards over the years.
If you're going to call a console with more graphical power than the PS2 (Dreamcast) retro, then drop the double standards.
607c3b No.16671324
>>16671314
>The whole open world genre is just GTA3 with gimmicks
Holy shit, no wonder you're retarded, you don't actually play games. Again, pic related isn't retro by your logic.
But since like to use MUH RELEVANCY as an argument, Mario Bros. and Zelda are still going strong, and since those started out as flagship NES titles, the NES isn't retro either.
008732 No.16671326
>>16671324
Daggerfall is an RPG, not a GTA style open world game. I would say the 2D tech makes it retro, but everything from Morrowind onward is still current.
607c3b No.16671334
>>16671326
Daggarfall lets you roam around and completely ignore the man plot, just like how in GTA you can just jack cars and steal shit without playing the story.
Please keep justifying your retardation, it's pretty funny.
>I would say the 2D tech makes it retro
It takes place in a 3D world, only the character and effects sprites are 2D.
008732 No.16671337
>>16671334
It's 2D trickery like Doom.
607c3b No.16671343
>>16671337
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_II:_Daggerfall#Development
>Daggerfall was initially developed with an updated 2.5D raycast engine, like the Doom engine, but it was eventually dropped in favor of XnGine, one of the first truly 3D engines.
008732 No.16671347
>>16671343
Okay, but it's not 3D 3D. If you can't point your camera up and down without the game shitting the bed, it's not really 3D.
68e04a No.16671356
>>16671347
That's just semantic bullshit, Doom isn't considered true 3D because its not using a mvp matrix to render anything. The 3D images is being produced from reading a fixed point 2D dataset, essentially creating a cube by extruding it into another dimension. Daggerfall only uses its 3D rendering for the terrain and buildings, all the sprites are drawn the old fashioned way but otherwise uses 3D for its calculations.
008732 No.16671360
>>16671356
ok. There's a distinct separation between that and Morrowind though. As if a new era had been entered. Whereas Skyrim is Morrowind with some more stuff bolted to it.
607c3b No.16671361
>>16671356
Daggerfall has mouse look you dumb nigger.
607c3b No.16671363
>>16671360
Skyrim is Morrowind is stuffed removed from it. Holy shit, what games have you actually played?
008732 No.16671368
>>16671363
Stuff like better grafix and more voice acting. You know, just fluff that doesn't really impact the core of the experience.
68e04a No.16671369
>>16671361
>Daggerfall has mouse look you dumb nigger.
That goes with what I said?
>but otherwise uses 3D for its calculations.
47f842 No.16671388
>>16666316
>Oh, you're one of those industry bootlicker NPC types. Good for you.
SEETHING
607c3b No.16671392
>>16671369
Sorry, meant to reply to >>16671347
>>16671368
If it's only fluff then it doesn't support your retarded fluctuating uninformed arguments about "paradigm shifts". Try sourcing examples of games you've actually played or at have read about beyond a youtube video.
607c3b No.16671393
>>16671388
>falling for the dreamcast piracy
I already btfo that argument, but stop posting nonetheless.
008732 No.16671401
>>16671392
You're the one who brought up Daggerfall. I don't really care about that game. Admittedly, I confused it with Arena, and thought it was more rudimentary than it was. It's 96, so it would fall into my transitional period rather than being fully retro or fully current era.
7f450f No.16671620
>>16671401
>say stupid shit about game you never played
>get btfo about game you never played
<i-i-i don't care i meant other game i never played
<muh vague transitional period i canchange the definition of
Didn't you say your transition period was for games with 2D design elements dipshit?
7a3263 No.16671742
>Caring about a distinction made because of cuckchan's atricious userbase
We can talk about games new and old in here without issue, so the separation makes no sense.
126f25 No.16671766
>>16671620
>>16671392
>>16671343
Obliterated. Absolutely obliterated. I also feel bad for the moron.
008732 No.16671781
>>16671620
It's not literally a clean cut between 2D and 3D. It's about the transition from the 2D era to the 3D era, which I would say fully arrived with the PS2. Obviously Star Fox is a retro game, but GTA3, DMC3, Half Life 2, RE4 and Halo are very much current games that we haven't really mechanically moved forward from. We're still more or less playing those games with a few graphical and control upgrades.
ef38d6 No.16671787
>>16671781
By your definition you're still just playing Mario 64 and the N64 is obviously retro. And also lacking in pure 2D titles, funnily enough
008732 No.16671797
>>16671787
N64 is transitional. Some of it's games are pretty much current. Some like Goldeneye now feel like weird archaic messes when played on the original hardware. Mario 64 displayed mastery of 3D control right out the gate, but a lot of the level design has that awkward feel of being someone's first attempt.
ef38d6 No.16671811
>>16671797
The problem with defining a console as retro or "transitional" depending on how archaic a game feels is pretty retarded, though
Because that's an issue with the game and plenty of modern titles still have archaic design choices. It's completely irrelevant to the console itself.
008732 No.16671821
>>16671811
The term "retro" is all about that though. It's a feeling, not an exact science. The Bee Gees are more retro than The Beatles. The A-Team is more retro than Only Fools and Horses. It's the subjective feeling of whether something is dated or not.
607c3b No.16671831
>>16671821
>The term "retro" is all about that though. It's a feeling, not an exact science.
The very definition of retro has nothing to with "feeling" nigger. Stop embarrassing yourself, try playing a video game instead.
>>16671742
Agreed.
008732 No.16671834
>>16671831
>imitative of a style or fashion from the recent past.
No, that's pretty much what I'm saying. For something to be a style from the past, it first has to pass out of style. Jeans aren't retro clothing, because people never stopped wearing them.
5726c8 No.16671871
>>16671061
What a whiny little shit you are. Too fucking bad. PS2 isn't anywhere near what old retro games were like. Neither is Xbox or Gamecube. The majority of their games would be right at home on current gen consoles if they got a boost in graphics because the sixth gen symbolizes the beginning of the modern era of gaming with games such as the GTA games and Halo being very successful best sellers of that era. Two franchises, especially in the case of GTA, that wouldn't have at all been possible on previous gens. Driver 2 was a small attempt at such a genre but at that point the technology wasn't near good enough for an open world sandbox GTA type of game. You can take GTA V and downgrade it enough to eventually for the most part fit the games concept on a PS2. It would have much shittier graphics and draw distance but would still be recognizable as a GTA game. With PS1 however the hardware just is not good enough at all for such a game and it wouldn't be possible at all without looking way too drastically different. For console gen 3 and 4 it couldn't even be 3D, it would look like GTA 1 and 2. Just like how the only possible GTA style game on PS1 was those games prior to 3. This right here is a perfect example of what truly seperates retro gaming which is gens 1-5 from modern gaming which is gens 6-8. If you are that autistic about it, at least two more console gens should pass before you can even lump in gen 6 with the prior gens. Even then though that would be stupid because it does not belong to the same era as pre y2k and pre 9/11 gaming era.
Seriously, just get the fuck over it moron. Sixth gen is not and never will be retro.
607c3b No.16671879
>>16671871
>Sixth gen is not and never will be retro.
t. 4/vr/
>>>/cuckchan/
>>>/resetera/
0b26c6 No.16671881
>>16666850
> its actual gameplay such as it even exists
Pretty sure most of it just involves going to the arcade and playing Space Harrier or Outrun, and i'm not even sure if i'm just confusing it for Yakuza.
0b26c6 No.16671888
Also i think the biggest thing keeping PS2 generation from being retro is the fact that they keep mining it for HD remakes, whether they need it or not, though that doesn't explain the Dreamcast, which practically had it's entire library redone and even re-redone(al la Sonic Adventure 1/2) at this point.
2596b3 No.16671893
>>16671834
Nobody gives a fuck about used toys being in style or not.
96ed24 No.16671961
>>16671834
You should just stop posting and wait for the next thread. By this point you're just digging yourself deeper.
ef38d6 No.16672105
>>16671821
>It's the subjective feeling of whether something is dated or not.
So PS2 is retro, then. Because you can't go against other anons' subjective feeling of PS2 being dated and retro
0b70fc No.16672132
>>16668568
>Physical piracy on the Dreamcast is pretty tough.
You are a black gorilla nigger. Step one: Own any dreamcast. I mean any. I've never seen one in my 20 years of doing this that CAN'T run burnt CD's.
>BUHBUHBUH BUT MUH VERSION 2
Nigger my main dreamcast is an NTSC revision 2 and it runs burnt shit PERFECTLY.
Step two: Download the CD-Rom versions of almost any DC game D2 being one of the notable exceptions.
Step three: Play a DC game without having to pay for it. Yeah the sound is silghtly more compressed but that's it.>>16668568
ef38d6 No.16672169
>>16671888
>the biggest thing keeping PS2 generation from being retro is the fact that they keep mining it for HD remakes
SNES games get plenty of "HD" remakes and ports. Square keeps putting their retro RPGs on mobile, of all things
And this isn't related to retro-factor, it's the industry being greedy, lazy and starving for ideas aka becoming Hollywood 2.0
dac0b2 No.16672181
>>16672132
>CAN'T run burnt CD's.
they exist but they're made in like 2001 only so they're barely around. I've only ever seen two and I work at a retro game store, I've seen hundreds of dreamcasts.
546d02 No.16674253
>>16672181
I don't know if you're being dense or trying to scam us, but I have two random Dreamcasts (one Euro, one Japanese) and both run burnt CDs. What is hard is actually authoring burnable CD images since it is basically the equivalent of a re-pack since Dreamcast supports some weird hack-around to allow for CDs over the standard limit.
496447 No.16674261
>>16666499
Pretty much, the horn locking betwen SoJ and SoA was disgusting and lead to a lot of mismanagement, look no further than the SoA trying to push the 32X when the saturn was right around the corner, coupled with the Saturn's shitty price (which lead to Sony's iconic "299") Pretty much killed Sega
d23024 No.16680688
>>16668555
>The default input options define retro
>The wii doesn't count
shut the fuck retard