3b94fc No.16635577
There's something that bothers me.
Why nobody uses prerendered graphics.
Yes, they were used a lot back then.
>but we can make them realtime
You can prerender stuff that is decades ahead in terms of being able to be archieved with real time graphics.
Also, some of such prerendered 3D still looks amazing today, like capcom psx backgrounds.
We can do a lot more with prerendered 3D like PBR, cartoon, anime that would be hard to archieved with real time.
Anime is quite hard to do outside renders because every frame needs to be carefully drawn.
322d8c No.16635634
>>16635577
Because ever since they could do real-time cutscenes people have been struck by the feeling that the game never comes to a screeching halt for an animated scene–even though it does.
It's the same question as "Why don't they do X to optimize their game, lessen load times and just make the game run at a smooth 60fps even on toasters?"
Because developers have forgotten how to code and publishers have forgotten its necessity. Now you get 8k terabyte vidya that could have been 3gigs if not for everything being blown out and no one knowing how to tuck it in if you know what I mean.
4b70f4 No.16635643
>>16635577
>Why nobody uses prerendered graphics
They're still in use today for cRPG backgrounds which is probably the best use scenario.
21fcec No.16635659
what?
most of the games out there used baked lighting/textures/shadows
thats prerendered graphics
b308af No.16635872
>>16635577
Pre-rendered doesn't work with a free camera. And anyway it's not like anime style stuff is advanced enough to need it, we're pretty much at the peak of 3D anime even rendered in real time.
345021 No.16635887
>>16635872
>we're pretty much at the peak of 3D anime even rendered in real time.
I think you underestimate just how insane the workload is to create good looking 3D anime games. The best is Arc System Works games where they make smear models to emulate smear frames from 2D, that alone adds an entire layer of complexity to the animation and art direction. Plus, there's still the issue of inconsistent visuals in anime games. Why I really dislike the visuals of a lot of anime games is they'll have perfectly cell shaded characters and props, but the environments of too many of these games use photo-realistic textures and so the whole game looks worse because you've got character art that clashes horribly with the environment art.
550a8b No.16635916
It's a lot cheaper and quicker to do it in engine. You do it in engine, you do a fraction of the work. You just take existing models in the engine, add some animations, move the camera, you're done.
Doing pre-rendered means starting from scratch it something like 3DS Max, Maya, Blender, etc and using a renderer which will take a lot of CPU power (a 5 minute prerendered cutscene at 1080p would take your computer several days to render, even if you have a really good one). It's a lot more work, a lot more money, etc.
345021 No.16635921
>>16635916
I don't think OP is talking about FMV games. They're talking more about pre-rendered assets I think.
b308af No.16635934
>>16635887
We've had good looking anime games since the PS2 though.
59217d No.16636102
Short answer: It's not cost effective, just like >>16635916 said, and I would add that real-time animations give your tech marketing some edge, normies love fancy effects, but they'll love it even more if said effects are described as playable, no wonder downgrades are a thing.
Still, prerendered can generate some cool aesthetics, expect some of that from artsy amateurs, not the main market. Examples from post-2010's in the pics.
>>16635921
Not the anon quoted, but everything he says still applies.
c7d397 No.16636107
Vidya still uses loads of prerendered assets, you stupid faggot. We prerender and bake lighting, normal maps, physics animations, you name it. Even basic shit like textures and static skyboxes are a form of prerendering.
But anon, you might ask, what about my PS1 RPG backgrounds and prerendered cutscenes? Guess what? Those techniques scale horribly as resolutions go up. They're horrible VRAM and storage space hogs, to the point that using a little transparency in particle sprites will often hurt performance way harder than rendering hundreds of high-poly models if the sprite is close enough to the camera. Prerendered backgrounds are basically useless outside skyboxes and stuff like REMake, while sprites quickly grow wasteful if you add enough frames or angles.
c7d397 No.16636126
>>16636107
I should clarify that I actually like prerendered assets a lot when used properly, like in >>16636102 's examples. The problem is shitters looking at old vidya and thinking they're some sort of optimization panacea.
59217d No.16636145
>>16636107
>Those techniques scale horribly as resolutions go up.
Stupid meatbag, accept your electronic overlords.
http://archive.is/ecdri
http://archive.is/H4z7X
99e445 No.16636153
6d5aa9 No.16636156
They're called bumpmaps dude.
c7d397 No.16636165
>>16636145
>post about how prerendered backgrounds use way more memory and are often less efficient as resolutions go up yes, this even applies to 720p and 1080p
>anon somehow thinks "scale" refers to image scaling
b38879 No.16636197
>>16636145
Even in the cherrypicked examples it makes the picture look sort of greasy. Imagine what the average texture will look like.
d7d94f No.16636510
>>16636145
>works like ass on various pre-rendered backgrounds
<works fine on everything else
e61d90 No.16636533
There are plenty of games that present "game footage" of what the game is gonna be like and then deliver like 40 polygons at cinematic fps and then have journalists call everyone entitled
e61d90 No.16636536
>>16636533
I fucked up and didn't express myself well, the implication I'm making is that they prerender that footage
0330d3 No.16636538
>>16635577
>Want to have dynamic lighting
>uh oh this light source does some shitty rim lighting drawn on top of the prerendered 3d
Yeah makes you think
232f18 No.16636544
Prerendered CGI anime still looks like shit. Ever seen goblin slayer? You shouldn't.
b9af42 No.16636556
>>16635577
Lighting.
/thread
03f9ab No.16636584
>>16635643
I don't like the shadows in that image. The railing or lamp-posts near the ground don't even have shadows. So much for pre rendering. Those objects could easily look better with some proper shading.
3ac999 No.16636763
>>16636145
This gives off a dream like crispness that somehow our brains don't fire off telling it's strange and alien
None of the patterns that this thing makes make any sense, but damn my brain don't complain even when I focus on them entirely
7b676c No.16636844
I'm on the fence here because on one hand pre-rendering certain things works much better than relying on in-engine(especially with modern devs who seem to have hand-eye coordination of a dead slug) but on the other it does create a pretty heavy separation between the game and the pre-rendered content.
Also considering the inane decision to never compress shit, pre-render might end up consuming even more space and that's beyond shit.
What I do wish happened more often was heavy stylization.
It straddles the middle ground just fine enough to work out when done well.
195a89 No.16636864
They do. Look at the new Age of Empires. It really only works with 2D games trying to look 3D. 3D games it starts looking bad. For example, pre rendering a moving 3D object will start to look bad and defeats the purpose because of the amount of frames you need to justify it. It's better just to go with the model.
55c6f0 No.16636870
>>16636556
>/threads his own post
2f05a6 No.16637009
>>16635934
Anime is a shortcut. The stylized graphics lets the brain fill in the missing gaps whereas a desire for more and more realize only causes the uncanny valley effect.
13d15c No.16637124
>>16636145
that looks ok but much of the denser foliage looks to blobiy.
9404b8 No.16637144
>>16635577
>We can do a lot more with prerendered 3D like PBR, cartoon, anime that would be hard to archieved with real time.
The hell are you talking about nigger, literally everything you just said can and has been achieved at 60fps in commercial games. Stop talking out of your ass.
315e6e No.16637225
>>16637124
I feel like it looks "generic VN/anime background" enough that waifu2x would have done a better job with it. Of course I think they all get those weird blob artifacts in some situations, like with foliage. I hope upsampling for many different kinds of images continues to be improved on, it's really awe inspiring to take for instance a 20 year old japanese oekaki art of some anime girl and blow it up many times its original size with no artifacts. I'd love to see an AI that can attempt to reverse blocky video encoding artifacts in images too, and maybe something to help with remastering VHS rips.
5f763b No.16637505
>>16636544
A major reason, not the reason, why it's shit they insist to animate the 3d stuff at the same fps as the 2d stuff. 3d animation looks like ass with low frame rates specially if it has single digit fps.
bdf59e No.16637523
>>16636107
> Those techniques scale horribly as resolutions go up.
Why not just have them low resolution and just dither them better. Or just learn to live with it and love it.
>storage space hogs
And yet they don't mind using gigs of uncompressed audio.
8d6fcf No.16637539
>>16636145
AI took something blurred and aliased then made it into a more-defined yet splotchy painting. It reminds me of the environments in Rayman Legends. Pretty decent.
603e6b No.16637554
>>16636544
>>16637505
>cuckime watchers
CG in anime is great! You just need to watch the good ones.
7cdf54 No.16637571
Realtime graphics < Pre-rendered graphics <<<<<<< Live action graphics
c7d397 No.16637593
>>16637523
Why don't you learn to use question marks?
>Why not just have them low resolution and just dither them better? Or just learn to live with it and love it?
Because unless it suits your game, there's no reason to. Games that want something like your pictures are usually full-blown 2D games anyways.
>And yet they don't mind using gigs of uncompressed audio.
Uncompressed sfx has always been common and doesn't hurt storage as much as you'd expect when they're brief. It becomes a problem when games store music and dialogue that way too, especially in dialogue-heavy games and those with multiple dubs.
bdf59e No.16637599
>>16637554
>cuckime
Begone /tv/.
1402d7 No.16637707
>>16635577
Five Nights at Freddy's uses it
this isn't a joke
c90f39 No.16637741
>>16637523
>Why not just have them low resolution and just dither them better
Nobody is using CRTs with shitty signal cables nowadays you retard
Low resolution with dithering only looks like shit when you can pump out an image with higher colors at higher resolutions
>And yet they don't mind using gigs of uncompressed audio.
Its not the audio that takes up space in modern games, its the prerendered cutscenes which take up gigabytes of space for a minute or two of grainy low res footage.
f7062e No.16637909
>>16637523
>Chrono Cross map
>Have started playing 4 or 5 times
>Still never progessed far enough to leave the main island
>Didn't even know there were other islands aside from the mainland/continent mentioned in passing during some scenes
e608ad No.16637948
>>16635934
Dark Cloud 2 was comfy as fuck.
f7062e No.16637975
>>16637948
I think the final bonus dungeon was rather disappointing.
2bda17 No.16638000
But we do use prerendered graphics.
>We can do a lot more with prerendered 3D like PBR, cartoon, anime that would be hard to archieved with real time.
You've just ousted yourself as an Anon that doesn't know shit about modern rendering. Literally the past 5+ years of vidya have used realtime PBR shaders. The entirety of Unreal Engine 4 uses PBR. Unity is PBR as well. Cartoon and anime shaders are miles easier to achieve and are relatively very cheap depending on implementation; matcaps, rim lights, toon outlines, etc.
c7d397 No.16638020
>>16638000 (checked)
Even freetard engines regularly have PBR nowadays.
26d181 No.16638090
>>16638000
Checked
What matters most is upscaling my emulators
eea9d4 No.16638405
>>16638000
>Literally the past 5+ years of vidya have used realtime PBR shaders. The entirety of Unreal Engine 4 uses PBR. Unity is PBR as well
Amazing how the industry today could have all that and still have nothing to show for it.
074584 No.16638626
>>16636544
>using nips as a base
Nips can't use computer. That's like saying that PC ports are impossible because nips can't into them.
You can do good shit with pre-rendered CG, you just need the CG to look good. The problem with anime is that they use a shit CG that's rendered in a different framerate from the anime and looks too different from everything else, so you have the guy running around at 20fps with the big CG guy that sticks out from the background running at 16fps behind him.
>>16637554
>goblin slayer
>cuckime
What if I'm American and self insert as the goblins?
113d41 No.16638659
5f763b No.16638801
>>16638626
> so you have the guy running around at 20fps with the big CG guy that sticks out from the background running at 16fps behind him.
It's the otherway around the 2d drawing is at 8fps and the CG is 12fps. Goblin Slayer CG is an example when it CG is at the same fps as the 2d assets. Just open your video player and use the next frame function to confirm this. Any 3d asset is going look like dog shit with that frame rate. It just looks like they're done at a different framerate because 2d animation doesn't look super choppy even with single digit fps, where as 3d looks bad below 30fps without motion blur.
99757c No.16638805
>>16636544
I absolutely agree that people shouldn't watch goblin slayer, but not because of the animation, but because its content is highly problematic and leads to many people feeling unsafe
b308af No.16638813
>>16638805
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
5f763b No.16638822
>>16638813
Also god hates ironic shitposting, Proverbs 26:18-19:
18 As a mad man who casteth firebrands, arrows, and death,
19 So is the man that deceiveth his neighbour, and saith, Am not I in sport?
03555b No.16638824
>>16638805
I don't really care that girls are being fucked by goblins, I just find it degenerate that it's being shown to me like it's hot.
97c22e No.16639474
>>16635577
That girl looks like a disloyal slut.
e6077e No.16640335
>>16638822
The bible is one big shitpost.
9cf9d5 No.16640342
>>16640335
>>16638822
That's fine though, because the Bible, Talmud, and Quran are all Abrahamic religions, and they both hate the fuck out of Christian. So let us shitpost
e5083e No.16642570
>>16636145
>it costs $99
guess what boyos
e5083e No.16642577
>>16637505
Shield Hero has also had alot of really shitty CGI shoved into it, and it always stands out in the worst way
Perhaps it saves money or whatever, but low quality jittery CGI will really lower the feel of a series
cd9ecb No.16642591
>>16642577
Even without CGI, Shield Hero's anime is way worse than the LN. So much shit gets skimmed over, the pacing is all fucked up, and they change shieldbro's personality and make him a moralfag.
b40b26 No.16642697
>>16635577
Do you have any good tutorials for pre-rendered sprites? I remember being amazed at how well most oldschool RTS look even so long after release. Goes to show that a good art style and coherent aesthetics go a long way in future proofing something over quality of the graphics.
>Anime is quite hard to do outside renders because every frame needs to be carefully drawn.
I've heard that GOOD CGI animes basically do exactly what you've said, or they make character models with tons more polygons than needed in the face and the areas of the body that would move the most like hands or feet so that whenever they needed motion that would deserve animation smears to make it look fluid, they can just stretch and squish those extra tris to give the animation a better feel. Also I've heard that good CGI in anime incorporates great texture work and sometimes switches to 2d animation for areas that benefit it.
1ab0d4 No.16642809
>>16642697
You create models as usual, animate them, place the camera at an appropriate angle for that of your game's and cap frames of that animation as bitmaps for use as sprites. You don't really need a special tutorial for that.
5f763b No.16642828
>>16642577
It isn't really budget cuts, but rather the fact that a smooth cg looks off when everything else is animated in the single digits, so the logical 'solution' is animate at the same rate as the 2d. Quality ensues. The proper solution is to make everything 3d and smooth FPS. Which brings other problems to the table, making look like RWBY at worst or look like a 3d JRPG cutscence at best, not bad thing necessarily, but not 2d anime either.
059d8a No.16642844
>>16642697
that anime was vomit inducing
b9af42 No.16642882
>>16642697
Look into NPR (non-photorealistic rendering). You can render outlines in blender by using the freestyle technique.
8313fa No.16642906
>>16635577
Check out Age of Barbarian. It uses pre-rendered sprites to achieve a cheesy 80s fantasy look. I think it's as good as it gets when it comes to pre-rendered 3d.