1e1a3b No.16604848
What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise? It had such potential and I wanted to like it but so much clearly went wrong.
Even with the bad I still sometimes have a fond nostalgia for ME1 and to a lesser extent ME2 but even these two games have lots of flaws. Also considering the games kept getting worse as the series progressed I kind of hate the franchise as a whole. It disgusts me knowing it could have and should have been something so much greater even though the shills say otherwise. It is not even close to the franchise it should have been in actuality.
85ee65 No.16604860
>tfw can't marry Legion
At least the series is probably dead now, Andromeda was an unmitigated disaster.
fae2ae No.16604882
Bioware can't take criticism and they kicked out Karpyshyn, that's pretty much it. Also ME3 released when EA was going into hyperjew mode.
>ME1 RPG elements and exploration is janky and kinda pointless
>Bioware goes WELL FUCK YOU
>takes out all the RPG mechanics and exploration for ME2
>kick out the guy who wrote 1 and 2, ignore all the build up for the ending
>actually kick everyone who worked on 1 and 2
>hire a bunch of tumblr faggots
>write a new hack job story about Shepard getting MUH PTSD from seeing some mystery meat kid dying
>nevermind seeing countless people fucking melt right before his eyes, mind raped by some thousand year old plant etc etc
>MUH MEANINGFUL CHOICES
Fuck Bioware they're such stupid cunts that fucked up a sure thing.
b70133 No.16604884
A very simple and very obvious list:
>Retcon nearly everything that was interesting or unique that has already been established, such as thermal clips, Asari being the all-female fucksleeve species, Krogan being essentially space Orcs who are only ever ruled by the baddest motherfucker in the species etc)
>focus more on romances than gameplay starting with 2 and moving forward
>start cramming fag propaganda into the game to the expense of the rest of the storyline (see Zhevran from DA:O as a good example; he was a bisexual fuck-elf who wanted to put his dick in anything with a pulse and if you denied him he'd continue to be a bro, as opposed to whatever that turbo-swole dude from ME3's name was who bitches and moans about it for the rest of the game if you don't let him poz you)
>remove waifus and replace them with ugly manjaw bitches with no redeeming qualities
>Andromeda's disastrous dev cycle, launch, and everything else that could have been avoided by giving the game to a team that actually had some experience as opposed to permanently staining the IP's name (not that ME3 didn't already kill it)
More than anything though it's just that EA is now simply a propaganda mill and Bioware's talented people have all long since left.
bc2602 No.16604890
A few things off the top of my head.
1. They decided they wanted the shooter audience, instead of the RPG audience. So they made the second game more of a shooter and less of an RPG
2. They removed all depth and streamlined the fuck out of it, mostly because one particularly incompetent "games journalist" didn't even know how to level up his character.
3. They fired/let-go the main writer and, instead of keeping is world-building notes and plot outline, completely jettisoned the whole thing mid-trilogy and decided to do something else. This is a stupid decision, but it didn't have to be completely terrible. However, the final chapter ended up not just being poorly written but so fucking dumb that even die-hard fans trolled Bioware by sending them cupcakes with three colours of icing, but made sure all cupcakes were the same vanilla flavour.
4. Typical Bioware writing. It has all the Bioware tropes. Gay people for no reason, interspecies fucking for no reason, and a "morality" system that was so fucking childish they colour-coded it like a Fisher Price blue-button-good, red-button-bad choice, in case you didn't know which decision was socially or ethically responsible. And even in those cases where there was a genuine grey area (the only one I can actually think of is the Rachni queen) they still colour-coded it so you'd know which version Bioware thought was good/evil.
5. The results of actual decision making were shit. As mentioned, the Rachni Queen, in the lore, should have galaxy-wide consequences depending on your decision in ME1. This got shat out the airlock with everything else by ME3 where the only result from your choice was whether or not you got "readiness points", which were the stupid currency you got for the final mission which could be farmed in-game anyway. No story consequences or anything.
6. A complete change in tone and presentation. Take a look at the atmosphere in the first game. Listen to the soundtrack, look at the visual design, all of it. It's a love letter to 70s and 80s sci-fi, right down to using a synth for 90% of the OST. They threw all that away for a more grunge/rock approach because apparently having love and respect and paying homage to the genre you're aping is not good enough when someone in a suit who doesn't play games or like the genre or even watch the TV shows/movies that inspired the game, says that dark and gritty atmosphere and heavy metal soundtracks sell better.
I loved the first game. It had flaws, plenty of them, but it could have been something special. What it ended up being was forgettable shit, the same as everything else.
f8cfd4 No.16604893
ME3 was the problem.
Choices you made didn't matter. They promised no deus ex and there would be 32 endings up until the week of release and when it was released, the whole story revolved around getting a deus ex and there were only 3 endings, which were all the same. Because of this, it made everything in Mass effect 2 pointless.
Because of how they handled the ending, it made ME4 and beyond impossible, which is why you get the soft reboot afterwards. The fact that Andromeda had even worse writing made it worse. But after the mess that was ME3, a lot of fans like myself abandon the series. You could tell it was going to be a mess when they released a novel a few months before that was full of massive lore fails and was written by someone who had a reputation for doing that shit. Not even 1 page into the book and there's a massive plot issue.
6adaac No.16604916
>>16604884
>focus more on romances than gameplay starting with 2 and moving forward
And the romances were fucking shit. Liara was really the best out of the lot, and while Tali had an okay personality she really worked for monstergirl degenerates (and BioWare had to fuck her up royally in ME3), the rest of the female characters were pure garbage.
And yes, ME2 replacing the female cast from the previous game with Miranda and Jack, both ugly, manjawed cunts, really didn't do them any favors.
>>16604890
But the RPG portions of Mass Effect were shit. You didn't have any meaningful skillchecks, the only choices were between cuck/asshole and there was not enough distinction between various classes and builds to make the game interesting. They should have hired some good third-person shooter devs and gone light on the stats, and made weapons and armors more unique.
Another big issue is how the game fails to live up to the premise. You're supposed to a 40k Inquisitor, yet you constantly get bogged down doing gay shit and playing armchair psychologist to your crew and their daddy issues.
06fd1b No.16604930
Mass Effect 1 was fine, then they listened to Dean Takahashi and streamlined/casualized the game.
https://beyond-gaming.net/2017/09/07/dean-takahashi-sucks-at-gaming/
9a9356 No.16604943
>>16604848
Here is an in depth analysis on what went wrong with the series, and much more autistic, than any anon would care to post.
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?cat=508
0dd5a3 No.16604949
>>16604848
in tl;dr format, the root causes were
>bought by EA
>EA's degrading influence on the game and extreme deadlines bleed many of the original devs
>seasoned devs are replaced by starving graduates (most of them more pozzed than even old Bioware)
>unskilled and disorganized dev team compounds the strain of EA's demands and deadlines
This was more than enough to kill ME (and Bioware) fast, but the cherry on top is that ME3's notorious ending was an almost independent fuck-up, though still caused by EA at its core.
>two chucklefucks co-opt writing control, physically locking themselves in a room away from the other writers, and throw out the series conclusion built up by ex-employee Drew Karpyshyn, replacing it with the nonsensical choose-your-color bullshit
To be fair, ME1 was quite flawed, and Bioware was known for producing flawed games and having an extreme liberal bent. So the series could've gone to shit on its own and most likely would've been pozzed even without the injection of current year hirees.
Still, it definitely wouldn't have been the abomination we know today.
9651c1 No.16604956
>>16604848
>ME1
A pretty typical space opera, nothing is ever clarified because the writers have no idea what they actually want to do with the big picture. Still it was a decent game for it's time, even if it had a lot of copy/paste with the planets and side missions.
>ME2
Writers STILL have no clue on what to do with the main reaper plot so they decide to turn the whole game into a giant sidequest/expansion pack that doesn't progress the plot in any way.
>ME3
The reapers are invading and the writers STILL have no idea what the big reveal about the reapers should be or what their motivation is to murder all life. I guess they were desperate for a "morally grey" motive and ended up fucking up everything tremendously.
In retrospect it was EA's or bioware's HR's fault for getting rid of the original team and handing over the project to a bunch of inexperienced interns.
fd6ab7 No.16604979
>>16604893
No, 2 was the problem. EA made it much more action focused at the detriment of the RPG mechanics. The story itself is pretty poor, being a complete side story because they couldn't figure out how to beat the Reapers.
3 was a shitshow but everyone lets 2's problems slide. 2 should have been a game about finding the magic weapon that miraculously exists to defeat the Reapers, while also having to deal with shit like the Collectors, animosity between other races, perhaps even a Reaper indoctrinated council member who starts a war.
3 should have had a few endings:
>total defeat
>sacrifice humanity so the other species survive (I think this was an actual ending they wanted originally)
>Shepard and a heap of information is hidden away in the Citadel so the next cycle will discover him and the trove of helpful info
>The magic weapon involves the mass relays being supercharged, to the point that they self destruct, bittersweet ending as essentially everyone has to go back to their systems and will never get to travel around the galaxy anymore. One last choice is if you want your waifu to live with you or you with her
0f4fd1 No.16604983
>>16604943
This blog series was the main reason I opened the thread at all – seems someone already beat me to it. This is a highly autistic and detailed breakdown of virtually every failing, in the story, and in the studio itself, that ultimately destroyed Mass Effect. It's definitely worth a read, I think.
a76028 No.16604993
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
First of all let me post a decent retrospective on the series.
0d5861 No.16604999
Mass Effect Waifus Ranked
1. Tali'Zorah Vas Normandy
2. Liara T'Soni
3. FemShep
4. Miranda Lawson
5. Samara
6. Ashley Williams
7. Kelly Chambers
8. Jack
9. Morinth
10. Diana Allers
11. Samantha Traynor
Andromeda Waifus Ranked
1. Dr. Suvi Anwar
2. Sara Ryder
3. Cora Harper
4. Vetra Nix
5. Avela Kjar
6. Keri T'Vessa
7. Pelessaria B'Sayle
6adaac No.16605060
>>16604986
They made an inferior copy of Star Control 2, and a space game where you don't get to fight with your spaceship. It's fucking gay, the gameplay is awful and they didn't even have the common decency to let you fuck all the women like a proper Chad.
07949b No.16605082
It certainly didn't help that it went from Pulpy Sci-Fi RPG to Daddy Issues:The Game
6adaac No.16605097
>>16605082
That's what happens when you let a bunch of women and faggots make a game aimed at the male audience.
>>16605090
>Continual success ruined them.
They were already shitting the bad around the time KOTOR and Jade Empire came out. They too suffered from the same issues Mass Effect does (and come to think of it, KOTOR is basically ME 1.0) - dogshit gameplay, cliche storytelling featuring the same recycled plot and characters, ugly graphics, ugly animations, lack of proper roleplaying, choices that don't matter, etc.
a76028 No.16605107
>>16604848
>What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise?
There are several things that made the series not as great as it could have been. EA buying Bioware was one of them. The change in developers between each game is another. And finally its success was a major reason each game got progressively less good.
Now let's examine developer turnover and one case in particular. The Mass Effect games had some names attatched that you'd recognize, like Drew Karpyshyn who was one of the main writers but didn't write for ME3, you have Mac Walter and Casey Hudson, who for all the shit he gets was one of the main visionaries behind the games. Now theres' one person who you might not have heard about and that person is one of the writers that were responsible for how neat the writing in ME1 was and parts of ME2 with Legion and stuff were. He's the guy who wrote all those planet descriptions in the first game that made each planet, even the ones you never set foot on, seem interesting. His name is Chris L'Etoile. He and Drew were the minds behind the setting, lore and general story, with lots of input from Casey to insert hot space babes in pastel colours and the like no doubt.
Now he only worked on parts of ME2 before leaving, such as Legion and EDI. But in the first game he's one of the reasons you might really like the writing, he wrote all the planet descriptions as mentioned before, he wrote all the codex entries which were more hard science fiction than in later games, he wrote nuanced characters such as Ashley Williams, he wrote all of Noveria and a bunch of other stuff.
So when people like him disappear for the next project its inevitable that the series changes in tone and content. He wasn't the only one that were lost along the way. Many of the people who worked on the third game never worked on the first game, or the second.
Then there's the issue of tacked on multiplayer in the third game, that the plot of the second game did nothing to develop the story for the trilogy, but was nevertheless a game a lot of people liked at the time due to the focus on the companion characters.
a76028 No.16605117
>>16605107
Here's a dev diary Chris L'Etoile wrote for the first game.
>>16605082
The first game wasn't pulpy, it leaned more towards hard science fiction than Star Wars. The later games descended into pulp though, with lore and worldbuilding taking a backsteat to characters and convenience. In the first game characters and plot was subordinate to the world and setting. That's a part of what made it so promising, even if the gameplay was sort of rough in places.
6adaac No.16605127
>>16605107
>So when people like him disappear for the next project its inevitable that the series changes in tone and content
Just compare ME1 to Andromeda, or what that new Obsidian turd will be like compared to New Vegas.
Leftists in management are genuinely so stupid they don't do everything in their power to keep the few talented writers that can work with vidya on their payroll, and decide it's better to replace them with tumblr cunts.
>>16605114
>only perception caught up and the magic spell was broken
Same with Bethesda and Fallout 76. They milked all the goodwill they could and now are feeling the repercussions.
17c0df No.16605134
a76028 No.16605137
>>16604893
>ME3 was the problem.
No, ME3 was actually trying to salvage what it could from the sidetrack that ME2 was.
>Choices you made didn't matter.
They did matter, a lot. You could fuck over the krogan or help them get the science fiction spic-nig cycle going again. You had the Geth and the Quarian conflict being resolved in a number of different ways. There was tons of different outcomes and paths, a lot being affected by earlier chocies. You had all the smaller things you did in previous games affect how good your ending would be. And finally, despite being stupid and hamfisted, the infamous three colour choice at the end was huge. With implications so big that they couldn't make a new game in the same setting anymore. It was balls to the walls in how big it was. Choices did matter, it was just that a lot of choices were dumb.
>and there were only 3 endings, which were all the same
Again, this is blatantly false. They are hugely different, just in kind of retarded ways. Because you'd think the fight against the reapers would be this binary thing of winning and losing, with varying degrees of failure and success being the nuance, along with other choices you did having an impact. Which sort of did happen, it was just the dumb big final choice that offered too much choice that wasn't needed.
>>16604979
With the expanded endings DLC most of those endings you bring up are in the game.
c10b58 No.16605140
>>16604848
They fired the original writers.
>>16604999
Good post, good digits.
6c48ce No.16605150
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
I just started replaying ME3 this week, i never made it to the end 5 year ago was too pissed at what they did.
now I spent about 6 hours modding it before I started. I downloaded over 10 GBs of texture mods. two " expanded galaxy mods", "fixed lore mod", "better AI/ more enemies mod", "dialogue overhaul mod" there's also a mod that makes areas more populated with different aliens called "Project Variety" . https://imgur.com/a/ngo4hCj
the game now ALMOST feels like a remaster.
a76028 No.16605160
>>16605127
>Just compare ME1 to Andromeda
Yeah, Andromeda had terrible writing. So godwaful that it made ME3 look like as if was written by some high-brow literature author.
>Leftists in management are genuinely so stupid they don't do everything in their power to keep the few talented writers that can work with vidya on their payroll, and decide it's better to replace them with tumblr cunts.
I do believe this is the case, especially considering how lowly rated writing in video games is and the business at Obsidian with the owners treating Chris Avellone like shit. But I also believe that there just aren't that many inspired or legit good writers around in the younger generations. They write cutesy leftist derivative trash most of the time because that's what schools these days program them to write.
Andromeda was just like big films are written these days. There are no stakes, the antagonist is a joke and nobody takes anything seriously. The characters are written as zany and quippy. Which is a huge shame, because their graphics artist making the environments and galaxy are extremely talented. But then Andromeda also had this Ubishit influenced singleplayer MMO desgin, which isn't conductive to good writing in the first place. And the game was also in development hell for a long time because they wanted to make NMS but then slapped together a game in like a year or after Mac Walters was called in to make the faggots stop wasting EA money with no results.
a76028 No.16605174
The absolute worst thing about ME:A for me though was the aliens. There was one new alien race and it looked like derpy humanoids. I mean that was one of the highpoints of the first game, meeting these strange new alien creatures with their own quirks, histories and cultures. Going to Andromeda was a chance to introduce a whole new slew of strange alien creatures and cultures. To boldly waifu alien critters no man has fucked before.
a76028 No.16605193
>>16604999
Shit taste detected. Lots of xenos too high up.
Mass Effect Trilogy Waifu Ranking
1. Miranda Lawson
2. Ashley Williams
3. Kelly Chambers
4. Jack
5. Legion
6. Samara
7. Morinth
8. Tali'Zorah vas Neema
9. Liara T'Soni
10. Diana Allers
11. FemShep
12. Garrus Vakarian
13. Samantha Traynor
Mass Effect Andromeda Waifu Ranking
>Implying
Cora was okay I guess
817483 No.16605208
>>16605150
Mods are like putting makeup on a badly anthrosized donkey, it may look better to fuck but you're still fucking a donkey.
77c0da No.16605223
>>16605193
>unfertile blowup doll at 1
>Vasquez type at 2
>literal betraying succubus above Tali
>Garrus is only better than Samantha
I went to the dump today and saw less garbage.
eb72ed No.16605239
>>16605174
>To boldly waifu alien critters no man has fucked before.
<le waifu means le thing I want to fuck xD
Were you looking for >>>/leddit/ , you disgusting normalnigger?
17c0df No.16605246
>>16605193
Absolute subhuman tier.
Good thing I read this shitpost before I considered reading your other ones.
fae2ae No.16605258
>>16605174
>derpy
>To boldly waifu alien critters no man has fucked before.
a76028 No.16605325
>>16605239
>>16605223
>>16605211
>zoomers have no taste
Lol, tell me something else I already know.
a76028 No.16605336
>>16605246
>ree, why isn't this ayylmao higher
Because humans are superior tbh.
6adaac No.16605367
>>16605336
Miranda and her IRL model look like shit.
3c9a15 No.16605381
>What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise?
Women and soy devs.
85ee65 No.16605384
>>16604999
>>16605193
>waifu list
>includes male characters
Just make a separate husbando list.
3c9a15 No.16605385
>>16605367
>Perfect human genetically engineered to be at peak mental and physical performance and attraction
>Still has buckteeth
85ee65 No.16605386
>>16605336
Miranda is fucking ugly dude
a76028 No.16605393
>>16605367
>Pic to the left is ugly
>Pic to the right is hot
I just don't understand homosexuality I guess.
17c0df No.16605394
>>16605336
Nuh uh uh, faggot.
Fan art doesn't count.
Here, let's show everyone what you REALLY like in a women.
6adaac No.16605398
>>16605393
I said nothing about Tali, you stupid fuck. The model looks like ass, BioWare couldn't even be bothered to find an actually attractive model and went with the cunt because the normalnigger show of the week she was starring in was popular then.
a76028 No.16605433
>>16605394
>>16605398
Looks better than the ayylmaos to me tbh. Ashley in ME2 is the best human female face they did, but then they turned it into trash in ME3.
6adaac No.16605436
>>16605433
>the best human female face they did
That's not saying much.
a76028 No.16605442
I don't see why we're talking about faces anyway.
>>16605436
Eh, I'm thinking it was just a technological limitation for the most part. The default Shepard was looking alright, but the rest always looked off. Andromeda had more realistic looking characters, but it had other issues.
c6e47e No.16605445
>>>/v/16605325
Mark, every day a poster like this goes unbanned is a step we take toward becoming cuckchan 2.0.
6adaac No.16605450
>>16605442
>Andromeda had more realistic looking characters
How can you be this retarded?
0dd5a3 No.16605454
>>16604999
based and Talipilled, but Doc Hacksaw should be on that list
>>16605193
>top 3 is an infertile butterface, a disloyal cunt and a literal whore
cuckold zoomers should return to cuckchan
c6e47e No.16605464
Man why are there so many cuckchanners in this thread? Did a mass ban happen?
>>16605445
to expound upon that claim:
>uses the youtube/pornhub weeb definition of waifu
>defends Mass Effect 3
>directly embeds youtube
>>16605454
>telling others to go to cuckchan in the same post you expose yourself as one of them
afad1e No.16605470
>>16605454
>uses the phrase 'zoomer'
>tells others to go back to cuckchan
Imagine lacking self-awareness to such an absurd degree.
a76028 No.16605471
>>16605450
Animations were shit due to reasons but the faces were literal 3D scans but more advanced than the ones in the earlier ME games. Like their fucking skin pores were scanned. How does it feel to be a brainlet?
0dd5a3 No.16605483
>>16605464
>>16605470
>zoomers invent the term zoomer
>zoomers don't want to be called zoomers
excuse me for trying to respect your cuckculture while you shit on mine with your atrocious cuck taste
zoomer
84e1b4 No.16605527
>>16605325
>zoomers
Fuck off back to cuckchan
a76028 No.16605529
>>16605454
>infertile butterface
She had other assets and was pro-human. And it's not like you could say knock up Tali or properly impregnate an asari.
>a disloyal cunt
Ashley was disloyal? Wtf, was there some choice that got Shepard cucked? I know that nigger cheats on FemShep in ME3, but other than that I know of nothing like that.
>and a literal whore
Still better than dating an alien tbh.
7a61e2 No.16605536
>>16605529
>Ashley was disloyal?
IIRC she accuses you of being a traitor, or at the very least, doesn't believe you when you come back from the dead in 2. Its been a while since I played it to be honest.
6adaac No.16605540
>>16605529
>having this level of shit taste in waifus
a76028 No.16605544
>>16605527
I actually picked it up from /tv/. You seem to be straight from cuckchan honestly, those are the ones always accusing everything of being cuckchan since they saw some reference to it on cuckchan. I haven't been to the place in like five years or more.
>>16605536
>doesn't believe you when you come back from the dead in 2
IIRC she's suspicious at first since she thought Shepard was dead but then hugs him and lets it go. I don't really remember much of ME3, but I don't recall her betraying Shepard in any way.
>>16605540
God-tier taste in waifus you mean. Sell me on your waifu, what makes your taste any good?
6adaac No.16605549
>>16605544
>God-tier taste in waifus you mean
>ugly, mongoloid face
>shit personality
>barren womb
>sexual partners in the triple digits
2ae84f No.16605559
>>16604848
>What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise?
Any questions?
77c0da No.16605566
>>16605529
>waifu
>only caring for them for their tits and ass, both of which look weirdly plastic
Nearly the entire fucking crew thought she was a cunt, and there's no reason for her to be that way. Jack's a psychopath who went through hell and yet she was more tolerable.
36cc08 No.16605579
Catering to normalfags instead of autistic people interested in the lore.
6adaac No.16605588
>>16605579
Ultimately, ME just made me wish for a 40k Inquisitor game where I get to hunt down heretics/xenos and purge them in the name of the God Emperor.
a76028 No.16605589
>>16605566
>Nearly the entire fucking crew thought she was a cunt, and there's no reason for her to be that way.
Only betas don't like alpha women tbh.
>Jack's a psychopath who went through hell and yet she was more tolerable.
Wew, anon, come on. Jack was annoying as hell. Both 2edgy4u and unstable emotionally, making Shepard her psychology cuck to sort out her daddy issues between getting plowing in the public toilets. Plus she's banged half the underworld of the galaxy before meeting Shepard. And the tattoos, don't even get me started on those
>>16605549
t. Pleb
7a61e2 No.16605591
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16605137
>Again, this is blatantly false.
Here is a side by side comparison of the three endings. As you can see, there is a signficant amount of identical assets, character animations, and most notably shot composition. Additionaly there are segments where only the color of the light is different. They are the same length, and the last sequence for all three of them is the exact same.
Further if you looked at the games files you would find that there are 3 ending files, each named based on the color of the light in the ending.
7a61e2 No.16605603
>>16605566
>Nearly the entire fucking crew thought she was a cunt, and there's no reason for her to be that way
Miranda is an accurate representation of a Male to Female transgender individual. Bioware was doing their due diligence in portraying a man who has been brainwashed into thinking they are a woman.
f862d8 No.16605610
>>16605603
Wasn't there an actual tranny in ME3? One of the ME1 characters?
a76028 No.16605611
>>16605591
>Here is a side by side comparison of the three endings. As you can see, there is a signficant amount of identical assets, character animations, and most notably shot composition.
First of all the difference is in story, not necessary assets or anything like that. Secondly, that's the original ending, not the newer one they made with a lot of ending slides and expanded cinematics. Thirdly, that doesn't include different levels of galatic readyness or whatever that meter was called, which gave you worse endings if you fucked up a lot of things and better ones if you didn't. Plus you didn't have access to the green ending if you got too low of a score IIRC.
>Further if you looked at the games files you would find that there are 3 ending files, each named based on the color of the light in the ending.
Also, this shows you're missing my point. The entirety of ME3 was an ending, with the fate of all the big questions of the setting being resolved. You can't just point to the final cinematic and say, well, only three outcomes lads. The branching happened much earlier than that. Like with the Krogan.
Now some of it were by necessity not hugely branching, like there being stand-ins for character that could have died so the level and story didn't have to be entirely different, but even so.
fa6aa9 No.16605617
>What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise?
fans being retarded enough to believe:
<the first was a remotely good game
<the game had any potential as a trilogy
<bioware would deliver
9962fc No.16605628
>>16605137
Holy fucking christ, we actually have someone claiming the fag effect three endings were different. This used to be ban worthy.
a76028 No.16605647
>>16605628
Even the original endings are different storywise you brainlet. If they were all the same we would have a Mass Effect 4 by now, and I mean a direct sequel, not Andromeda. Plus, as I've already mentioned, you just keep pretending the ending DLC doesn't exist. But it does, it gives you Fallout: New Vegas style epilogues for everything and all the characters.
Stop being a brainlet. Those three cinematics are lazy, yes, but the endings are different.
5e897c No.16605659
>>16604848
ME1 did so much right that this could have been the easiest successful trilogy ever. Just make ME2 and ME3 as expansion packs to the first one, pack it full of content, wrinkle out the creases and focus on the story. ME1 has a lot of wrinkles, but its foundation is absolutely solid.
Ultimately, the fundamental problems are in ME2, and there are three of them.
>The shift of engine
>The shift of gamplay
>The shift of writing tone
Because of the engine shifts, development time was taken away from the meat of the game.
ME1's gameplay had a good foundation that left a lot to not only experimentation, but expansion. ME2's approach threw the baby out with the bathwater, and reduced it to a mere chest-high wall shooter, as was the craze at the time.
The shift in writing tone is the worst part. Mac Walters is not only a worse lead writer than Drew Karpynshyn, he's an inconsistent one. ME1 was a Details First story, while ME2 and 3 were action flicks. ME1 felt like a space opera, ME2 felt like a comic book. Elements that were fundamental to the player, the setting and the overall story, were either sidelined or abandoned (pic related). Characters that had nuance no longer did, which elements like Cerberus were wildly rewritten to take control of the story in ways that only hurt it. Why are the council's frustrating decisions, which were carefully justified in ME1, suddenly flanderised into stupidity? Did you notice you can't put humanity first in the story any more? Who cares about some rogue black-ops group when so much more is at stake? The first game had action-hero one-liners but it also had thoughtful settings and diplomatic solutions. So why does the second only have action-hero one-liners?
Worst of all, the plot took a shift that wasn't in line with the first game. Execution, method, etc. plummeted in the main plot. Abandoning the dark energy plot was probably crucial to this, as was focusing on the reaper threat without a plan around them. These things led to the contrived macguffin of the Crucible, as well as the out-of-place singularity resolution, both of which compromised the adventure. There is no true second act: we rush from first to third with some lore in between that doesn't serve the story.
0dd5a3 No.16605664
>>16605647
You're a stupid faggot and wrong about most of the choices "mattering", because while they could imply huge narrative changes with zero responsibility of having to back them up (as there would be no direct sequels), they had very little impact on gameplay. A perfect example of this is the consequence of ME1's rachni queen choice, where if you killed her you still play the same fucking mission except the rachni queen model is now a reaper clone instead, and you don't get as many "readiness points" or whatever because she doesn't trust you. Some numbers and a line of dialogue, that's the difference.
The only way the choices mattered are in relation to the future of the setting, but with impossible shit like whether or not you genocided either/or of the Quarians/Geth, or unsterilized/lied to the Krogan, etc., the reality-altering RGB ending decisions hardly matter, they're just icing on how impossible it is to make a sequel.
02fb31 No.16605670
first had incredible world building
second had incredible characters
nothing after this could live up to these, its all bullshit
a76028 No.16605688
>>16605664
>A perfect example of this is the consequence of ME1's rachni queen choice
That was more of an outlier and what i was talking about with the stand-in character replacements. It has to do with budgeting. You can't just cut out an important mission like that. The rachni choice was handled poorly, I'll give you that, but most things weren't. The only bad ones from previous games that I can think of are the rachni and the retard terminator from ME2's ending. Everything else gets followed up on and concluded properly.
>The only way the choices mattered are in relation to the future of the setting
Come on, dude. I told you about the ending sliders. The game has a long ass epilogue now after the ending DLC. I never said that ME3 was a quality game, a good ending or whatever. Just that the game did conlcude the story and it did offer very different endings, in terms of story obviously, since everyone and their mum knows about the RGB meme. Stop being dumb.
Or, y'know, give me some examples of unfinished business. Or tell me how wrecking all AI's in the galaxy is the same as Shepard taking over the reapers and ruling the galaxy with an iron fist.
9962fc No.16605693
>>16605647
They’re exactly the same. Reported for unironically believing what you are saying.
a76028 No.16605696
>>16605693
>They’re exactly the same.
Reported for being a brainlet high on old memes and refusing to read what he replies to.
f9f3db No.16605732
>>16604943
I've read that entire series and it's the biggest and most autistic takedown of anything I've ever seen. I loved every moment of reading it.
6c48ce No.16605752
>>16605336
mod that fixes her face , her real face with black hair
6adaac No.16605760
>>16605752
Still looks like dogshit. Is there a mod that replaces the face entirely?
9ad03e No.16605767
>>16604848
>What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise?
The Reaper threat practically being solved in the first game by locking them in dark space. Nothing to do with the Reapers or how they got back made sense after that. Sure in ME2 you could say the Collectors were building another Reaper so he could then be the new Vanguard for the invasion. But then they just show the invasion is already happening the Reapers can just travel out of Dark Space on their own without the Mass Effect relays. It just stops making any reasonable sense and you can tell they realised they had fucked up solving the problem in the first game.
17e069 No.16605785
>>16605777
Checked and keked.
f9f3db No.16605818
>>16605767
It wasn't resolved, the ending to ME1 was fine. Left some things open but stood on its own. The problem is ME2 which didn't introduce a new way the reapers could awaken and arrive nor did establish how you could defeat them. ME2 was where it all went wrong, the game dropped the RPG elements, fucked the lore and forced ME3 to both setup and conclude everything by itself.
5e897c No.16605902
>>16605818
Can we ask ourselves, why did they feel the need to rush the Reaper threat? Why did they think we need the whole "The Reapers are coming SOON and we can't stop them" element? Why not keep the element of time? As something that could either give us a different ultimate antagonist for the trilogy and keep the reapers in the back? Or as a despair point in ME2, where Shepard fails to stop the Reapers from ensuring their arrival in ME3?
20fe52 No.16606040
There is literally nothing wrong with ME3 except for the ending.
40173f No.16606050
>>16606040
>t. hamburger helper
e26ccd No.16606054
>>16606040
That's my trigger
341f17 No.16606071
9cd5ea No.16606079
>>16606050
>I have awful hand-eye coordination
>I don't like tactics
>I can't read a game map to save my life
<I can't perform any physical tasks
<I cannot meaningfully plan or come to conclusions
<I am unable to absorb information presented to me
I've never seen someone so proud to admit that they are bad at literally everything except eating.
441d41 No.16606315
What was the point of the Collectors building the Human Reaper anyway? I haven't played 3.
6c4242 No.16606374
>>16604848
>What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise?
Typical progressive inching ruining sequels and this series was no exception. Only the worst leaders need to explore their sexuality on the eve of the battle for existence. If you don't already know if you want a plump juicy delicious cock up your ass or not, I dare say I wouldn't want you as my commander. Banging aliens puts you at risk for space AIDS and other such illnesses that would risk you performing your duties. I could go on, but as far as the game play and endings were concerned, I didn't have a problem with it because things change in development cycles and whatever the end result was, it what it is.
7a61e2 No.16606376
>>16606315
IIRC Top lifeform gets to live on as a reaper. Protheans were incompatible so they were made into the collectors.
20fe52 No.16606402
>>16606315
There is none, the Reapers just like to preserve the genetic material of the races they destroy so those races can continue living on in a sense.
630f21 No.16606408
>>16604999
>tali being top
Can't complain. Nice trips.
ab691c No.16606410
>>16605752
>mod her face into less of an abortion
>she still has a massive, square-jawed chucklehead with a tiny face on it.
5e897c No.16606430
>>16606315
So that reaper could attack the citadel just like in ME1, only with way worse odds for the reapers.
No, really.
It couldn't have been something like needing a human reaper to stop the dark energy crisis, noooo, it couldn't tie into the main plot at all. They had to give us a baby Arnahld to rehash an old plot in the worst way
f228f4 No.16606490
>>16604999
>Tali
>unironically lusting after a space kikess
Revolting. Uncle Adolf didn't die for this.
033855 No.16606532
>>16604848
Just letting you know there are various mods on the Nexus for anyone hankering wanting to do another trilogy run. Re-Calibrated mods for 1, 2 and 3 fix lore inconsistencies, typos in the subs and a few of the bugs. ALOT of textures bring everything upscale. And 3 has a few of the bigger ones like Expanded Galaxy and Happy Ending that make it worth a playthrough modded.
>>16604993
This, it's 3 hours long but he goes indepth into everything. Summery of all is that the series never reached it's full potential. ME1 was a compramise, story and back setting were great to set up the series but the gameplay is a laugh. ME2's story is laughably poor but the characters made it worthwhile and the mechanics are 2010 cover based but powers, weapons and different enemies keep it fresh. ME3's gameplay was an accident in that it was a more rush of 2, the characters were limited to 2 responses in most scenes which killed the roleplay and the ending, oh the ending.
>>16604999
>Tali over Liara.
As a follower of blue ass, I'll allow it.
77c0da No.16606555
>>16606490
>kikess
Not that it's much better but I got more of a gypsy vibe from her. does this mean Quarians secretly control the banks and politicians
77c0da No.16606573
>>16605610
Aside from Asari being able to be fathers and mothers, I don't remember anything like that
>>16605589
>Only betas don't like alpha women tbh.
Alpha women are only attractive to beta men, it's even confirmed in her emails where she fucks some guy.
>Wew, anon, come on. Jack was annoying as hell.
Yes but she atleast had a reason for being a bitch. Getting tested on and betrayed at every stage of your life will fuck up anybody.
What's Miranda's excuse? She had a perfect life with all the tools of success handed to her, even being genetically modified so she would always succeed.
>>16605611
>first of all the difference is in story, not necessarily assets or anything like that
So it comes down to nothing more than maybe a couple lines of dialogue being different? If there are only some changes then it hardly qualifies as a different ending.
I'm not saying they need to put in half the budget on just the last five minutes, but they needed to give a bit more than they did.
>extended cut fixed it
Only because we complained
d997af No.16606610
>>16606555
So wait, what did that make the Geth in this parallel?
f766b6 No.16606675
Mass effect 1/2 had issues but they still had soul.
b30345 No.16606685
>>16606555
>that spoiler
Nah, they're too poor for that. If they did, they wouldn't need to nigger rig their entire fleet.
a5028a No.16606696
>>16606490
>jews
They’re arabs, Anon.
Quarians= Quran
Tali = Taliban
6c48ce No.16606700
>>16606410
>like the real person
000000 No.16606701
>>16604848
>this exact same thread was posted recently
>this is literally a marketeer thread
It never had any potential, as the company hired women and faggots. Women and faggots are incapable of rational thought, and thus, always incompetent at everything that they try to do. Once you have even a single one of those two subhumans in any project, the project will fail without exceptions.
053267 No.16606791
>>16605688
>You can't just cut out an important mission like that.
then you don't claim your decisions mean something when all it changes is the color
>Everything else gets followed up on and concluded properly.
ME2 literally does not matter how you ended it. suicide missions simply sets which companion you gonna see again (and even then it's almost fuck all in 3), it has zero effect on the plot.
4fd1d1 No.16606985
>>16606490
*kssshck* The goyim human thinks the quarian sand suit rats are the chosen merchants haha *ksssshck*
587b09 No.16606996
>>16604848
>What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise?
The Reapers. Lot you could have done with Saren working with the Geth to fuck up the humans but the dumb space zombies and Sovereign ranting at you about how unknowable and mysterious he is just completely trashed the tone of the setting. And that's not even touching the sequels where they just got worse and worse.
6e39fa No.16606998
>>16605902
Because that's what hacks do. They use the background hook as the ultimate villain because they have no original or interesting ideas in universe. The irony to it all is that even if Mass Effect was essentially the sexual adventures of Star Trek with laser fights and Star Control 2 mission objectives, it would still be the first of its kind as a series and perhaps the only thing close to satisfying a nerd's innate desire to roleplay in a good Star Trek universe. And you can't just say
>MUH EA IS EBULZ
because that's what these Biocucks have been doing since 2, where they thought it was a good idea to shit all over everything and basically make it a tech demo for their new engine and new mechanics because some half-ching chong is bad at pressing buttons.
The combat shouldn't have changed from the first one, even if you had a game engine change at the second one, sacrifices shouldn't be made in the RPG department, even if their dialogue wheel is the most obvious "i don't know what tabletops or Troika styled RPGs are" way of telling that to those who care and finally, Cerberus should have been the focal point. The allure of Shepard was that he was the chosen faggot from Earth to become part of the Galaxy Rangers and stop crime. That's it. But if Bioware ever had any good ideas, Jade Empire wouldn't be so shit either nor would the fabled "Jade Empire 2" be a shooter-RPG that was cancelled.
>>16606532
>Bioware becoming the second Bethesda because they are truly stupid instead of lazy hackfrauds
As for the videos, they are the perfect filter to see how normalfucks think about vidya-james. He(Raycevic) and his worshiper, Whitelight are the ultimate example of canacuck gaymers, singng the praises of the most mainstream, normalnigger things that fucked over gaming for decades. The only semblance of taste any of those have shown were Web of Shadows, Prototype 1 and Max Payne 1&2.
Now lament about how Biocuck drones and news outlets kvetched and screeched at Nip-land's horrible crimes against Mass Effect with pics related.
4fd1d1 No.16607004
>>16606532
What type of lore inconsistencies does the mods fix? And are the texture mods good? Like do they actually stay faithful to the original aesthetic or do they change a lot like texture mods for other games?
Do you have any screenshots of how it looks?
9a0424 No.16607013
It was destroyed by realismfags and waifufags.
Instead of exploring alien worlds and meeting aliums, we met 5 shades of human and over time even the a little bit alien ones became more human looking.
Sci-fi went down, waifufags went up and everything went to shit. Same with gameplay.
033855 No.16607058
>>16607004
N7 day was all about mods last year, as it had been 5 years since ME3 was released, it's how I did a modded playthrough of it.
Re-Calibrated mods fix the little things, like Matriarch Lidanya and her model being consistent on the Destiny Ascension instead of changing from one cut-scene to the next. A few of the Asari and Salarian collection quests were changed as well. Also fixes the Conrad Verner paragon flag, so he doesn't think you stuck a gun in his face in 2. Stuff like making sure planet names are consistent and Serrice isn't Serice.
Texture mods are all about upscaling the textures, so the ones in game are like 512x512 or something and these make them 1024x1024 or 2k.
Re-Calibrated:
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect/mods/114
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect2/mods/169
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/411
ALOT:
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect/mods/83
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect2/mods/68
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/363
ME3 also has happyending mod. Depending on level of readiness you destroy the reapers and Shepard lives or dies and you fail. No star kid, no other bullshit. Even get a hug from LI then.
Expanded Galaxies for 3 adds alot of "fluff" to the game that it depsertly needed, for instance there's a shooting range in the cargo hanger that you can upgrade with various mechs and things to look cool. You can get Miranda on the Normandy and take her out into the field, you can choose different crew members for positions like flight officer and XO that give bonuses when flying around the galaxy. All multiplayer armor and weapons are added to single player. There's that quarian in Omega in 2 at the Halot's shot, can't remember his name, but if you help him out and get the quarians to join the war, he can join your crew and work on your engine, making you faster on the galaxy map.
HE
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/66
EGM
https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/350
There's also some small mods I like, like replacing Shepard's dreams of annoying kid with events that happened in ME1 and ME2, giving Shepard actual nightmares.
Plus there's a tali romance mod developed by some russians and I like her unclouded helmet mod.
a76028 No.16607063
>>16606791
>then you don't claim your decisions mean something when all it changes is the color
How hard can it possible be to grasp that decisions can matter even if it doesn't change everything completely like in The Witcher 2? Which only had two distinct paths by the way.
>ME2 literally does not matter how you ended it
It does though, only the destroy or saving the collector's base didn't matter a whole lot as already referenced by my "retard terminator" comment. Every single character could either live or die and this is held up by the final game. But that also means you can't make characters who could get killed central characters in the third game, because the story would have to work without them.
>it has zero effect on the plot.
Characters dying does affect the plot. How much more impact could that possibly have than characters dying and affecting the readiness rating? Are you saying you want a global fail state if Jack dies in the suicide mission?
Speaking of which, there you have an example of choices and consequences being honored. If Jack was killed in ME2 you never encounter her in ME3, if she lives you can save her and the special needs kids she's tutoring, but you could also fail to save her in ME3, making her an enemy encounter later in the game. You can't connect it to the big reaper war more than that, affecting the overall war effort but not making a night and day difference. But if she didn't die she gets an epilogue and a different one depending on your choices up until then.
Like what more do you want than that? How much more impact could it have on plot? The branching is crazy, but I guess since they didn't make entirely new content, levels and plot for all the 300 or whatever possible game states nothing you do matters and the plot doesn't change.
f862d8 No.16607064
For the supposed sexy race I didn't really feel much from the asarians. I very much liked femshepard and Tali and that was it when it came to any of the women in ME.
a76028 No.16607070
>>16606701
>this is literally a marketeer thread
Lol no. Mass Effect was abandoned by EA. They didn't even bother porting the trilogy to curent gen consoles and they stopped making content for Andromeda right after launch, so it didn't get a single piece of DLC even. I wish they would port the games though, it would be nice to have the trilogy and all DLC content for my PS4. And the games being so old now, even soytendofags could get a switch port.
But again, EA has dropped this series and isn't interested in even making some spare change off it anymore.
6e39fa No.16607077
>>16607070
I might be alone on this but in this industry there are two categories of games :
>Those made for consoles that will later get preserved by PCs
>Those made exclusively for the PC, with the PC in mind.
Mass Effect and in general, a massive amount of games from the west is this. Porting it to new consoles is a fool's errand , a waste of everyone's time and a lazy cash grab because we know not even the bare minimum bugs won't be fixing in the porting process. It's not Megaman, where it can be enjoyed on every console ever + PC. And it's not like they will ever remake these games either. >>16607058 has the absolutely right idea on how to solve it. A mod that would let you change "classes" like in Andromeda though would be fucking amazing for the first three games
4fd1d1 No.16607080
>>16607058
Thanks, anon. Looks really neat. Seems I will have to replay the series now with mods.
a76028 No.16607102
>>16607077
I guess, but my main point was that no posting about any Mass Effect game is likely to be any form of shilling. EA doesn't even sell any kind of complete trilogy package on Origin nor is it on GOG like some other EA games.
Having the trilogy on the PS4 would just be to have a physical edition of the game, since PC games are just digital download codes with drink coasters these days. The mods posted in >>16607058 look great though, especially the expanded ME3 stuff. If EA wasn't a bunch of jews then they'd provide that kind of stuff themselves. It's pretty amazing that the community managed to scramble together this, from what I've seen the ME games seemed like a bitch to mod at all.
033855 No.16607112
>>16607102
It was till about 2015 I think when dev tools were created for it. With those it's pretty easy to replace lines of text or textures of characters.
1d5063 No.16607198
>>16607070
Does anyone actually make money from old games besides Nintendo?
Videogames are ephemeral. They make their money in the first few months and its over. A few thousand sales of Mass Effect on Origin every year doesn't matter to EA. Hell they frequently give away their old stuff.
76aa11 No.16607213
>>16607198
Bullshit, there's plenty of games that have made a profit over their lifetime and from discounted sales. Publishers are kikes that only want short term profits to pad quarterly reports and inflate their bonuses, they don't care about making viable products.
a76028 No.16607217
>>16607198
On new console gens there are sales tbh, that's why they released Shadow of the Colossus for the PS3 and PS4. Also why they remastered the first two Metro games.
On PC though? No. But then again, most sales are on console to begin with. Ease of access to old games on PC also doesn't help with sales. Who cares about a remaster when you both can still run the old game and increase resolution yourself? Not to mention mods.
Of course the sales are never close to as big as the initial wave, but the cost isn't that high for a port and even if the sales aren't huge it still keeps interest in the IP alive, keeping brand awareness intact. So by not doing stuff like porting the ME games to newer generation consoles or offering the all content in a single package for cheap they show that they are no longer interested in keeping the franchise alive.
Finally, some games do have long tail ends. Mostly cult classics and stuff like that, which is rare in AAA games. Mass Effect could have had it if they did what those modders did and added some content, ported the games to new gen consoles and stuff like that. Mass Effect is a series of games people still remember fondly, so I think there's a market for it still.
76aa11 No.16607220
>>16607217
>so I think there's a market for it still.
ME is effectively dead. Whatever goodwill was left after ME3, BioWare made sure to strangle it with Andromeda.
BioWare and EA had the new Star Wars on their hands, an IP they could have milked with games and merchandise for at least two decades, and they wasted it all for a quick buck. Lucas must be laughing his ass off at them and Disney for fucking up what are basically money printing magic machines.
033855 No.16607227
>>16607217
Remember if you wanna play again/install mods, fitgirl has repacks of all 3 games with the DLC and stuff already include, so all you need to do is install, swap mods and play.
1d5063 No.16607241
>>16607213
First of all nobody funds a game thinking "this will make a profit over 10 years".
Secondly the vast majority of gamers don't play old games period. Whatever EA is making from ME in 2019 is chump change.
02fb31 No.16607242
Andromeda combat only feels better because of how you can move around in the battlefield and because its engine solved many bizarre problems unreal had, powers are WORSE and even more LIMITED than ME1
ME3 had the best mix of powers and inventory mechanics but its half-finished garbage in motion, your character stops mid animation like its some bad arcade game
a76028 No.16607244
>>16607227
I will give it a go, those mods you posted seems to really give new life to the games. I'm downloading them right now and just hope that my toaster won't start to smoke once I've got everything up and running.
76aa11 No.16607246
>>16607241
>First of all nobody funds a game thinking "this will make a profit over 10 years".
Sure, they don't, but to claim that games can't make profit over longer periods of time is bullshit,
>Whatever EA is making from ME in 2019 is chump change.
Of course it is, since they ruined the franchise and any enthusiasm people had for it.
4e6c59 No.16607248
>>16607220
I saw a recent photo of him and some of the original male actors when disney brought them to open up their new star wars land in commiefornia. Lucas just looked straight off into the distance like his mind was anywhere but there.
d0af32 No.16607254
>>16607246
>Of course it is, since they ruined the franchise and any enthusiasm people had for it.
thats why I can't believe EA let Andromeda ship in the condition it did. it should be obvious that bad launch is franchise death… how do they keep making the same mistakes?
033855 No.16607258
Also if you want some autism to read, there was the guy who wrote a 500 page manuscript rewriting the entirety of ME3.
http://files.bioware.ru/me3/others/masseffect3vindication.pdf
a76028 No.16607263
>>16607248
>Lucas just looked straight off into the distance like his mind was anywhere but there.
Lucas has moved on from Star Wars, seeing the mouse turn it into the same stale rehash garbage that the rest of the film industry is so full of and dumping his original outlines in the trash made him stop caring.
>>16607258
I'd rather read Mass Effect lewdfics than autistic rewrites tbh.
6e39fa No.16607265
>>16607220
Don't forget about Anthem as well that was to be Xenoblade X with IronMan armours and Mass Effect story jizz. Good will isn't even a thing for Bioware anymore and people actively want EA to kill them in the same pit that so many other studios are rotting currently. Lucas really had all of the last laughs.
>>16607241
>t.Not Korean / Chinese
Come on now anon, you expect those ching-chong jews not to think like that for the JewMOs they shit out and keep for about a decade to 15 years around?"Gamers" were a mistake as well
>>16607258
Will it trump the the 5 hour long nitpick of wether or not the Indoctrination Theory thing is real or not that is on some cuck's chanel that's probably deleted for the third time now because Clever Noobs failed as a forum or something?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK7TKqO34c8E8xOdZOWZIUrSgyql5xb7v
76aa11 No.16607266
>>16607254
>how do they keep making the same mistakes
They simply don't give a shit. They have FIFA and Madden making them big bucks, so they hire a team of talentless leftist hacks for pennies, give them a minimal budget and let them try to make a game (and then pull programmers away to work on FIFA some more) hoping there's enough goodwill out there to milk the fanbase for whatever money they have left.
The guys in management don't give a shit, all they want is to make sure the quarterly report shows they made a bigger profit than last year so they can get a bigger bonus, while the lizards in charge are incapable of thinking long term.
You'll never see anything like Star Wars out of corporate America again, they are simply incapable of conceptualizing the idea that you can spend a bit more on a game/movie/book to reap the benefits from merchandise sales. Just look at how Disney treated Star Wars, and is about to do with MCU, or how HBO shat the bed with Game of Thrones, or how EA destroyed all their developers that aren't working on their sport titles and ruined every IP they had.
>>16607258
>thinks 500 pages constitutes autism
There's fanfics out there that hit the 10,000 page mark.
>>16607265
>people actively want EA to kill them
Plan working as intended. EA figured out that instead of killing a beloved studio they'll simply drag them through the mud until the fanbase begs them to give them a mercy killing.
4770cf No.16607268
>>16604848
>What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise?
they stole every good thing, and fucked up everything they had to do on their own, that's about it
a76028 No.16607269
>>16607268
Star Control 2 was just Starflight for normalfags.
4770cf No.16607271
>>16607269
you missed the point, the point is that every good thing in ME came from SC2, and every thing biohomos did on their own failed
a76028 No.16607278
>>16607271
>every good thing in ME came from SC2
Not really, they had a bunch of original content and were influenced by a lot of other things. The aesthetics in the first game is pure Syd Mead, the asari are more or less all female twi'lek from Star Wars, they have a bunch of plots and themes from old science fiction books and so on.
And the devs were very open about being inspired by SC2, IIRC they said in an early interview that the whole point of Mass Effect was to bring that kind of game back since they weren't around anymore, mentioning Star Control 2 specifically.
But you're missing my point, Star Control 2 stole everything from Starflight. There wasn't an original bone in SC2. The reason you never hear anything about the first Star Control is because it was an entirely different game that didn't steal everything from Starflight. It's really annyoing to hear people reference Star Control 2 as this original thing when it's really just a shitty clone of a far superior game. Protostar is a better game than SC2 ffs.
ed7438 No.16607288
A big one for me that the kotors did better was lack of a cohesive story when it came to the crew itself, especially in ME 2 onwards. I remeber playing KOTOR 1 and 2 and there would be sections where the whole crew has a talk with different ideas on what to do and are at eachothers throats. In ME2 i can count these moments of crew conflict on one hand and they can be solved by using paragon or renegade to say “WE GOTTA KILL THE RIPPERS YOU GUYS”. I remember in KOTOR different people actively pushing you light or dark and the ridiculous amounts of kreia x everyone else interactions in kotor 2. In ME 2 its like everyones in an isolated part of the ship waiting for the dating sim conversation.
6e39fa No.16607290
>>16607278
>Why do people reference Star Control II and not Starflight
<Star Control 2 : Crystal Dynamics and some other publisher
<Starflight : EA
There's your problem dude, people really don't have good memories of EA's games so if someone does something better, they wipe them out of their memories. I guarantee you, the moment anyone makes "Dead Space but not really" under a different publisher, EVERYONE without exception will forget about it.
a76028 No.16607301
>>16607290
EA was just the publisher and Starflight was the better game. The only reason people remember Star Control 2 was because it appealed to redditors and because it got that sourceport. The Starcuck reboot and copyright shenanigans has also kept it in the public eye. It has nothing to do with EA or quality.
06fd1b No.16607332
>>16607248
He's not the only one.
7b1aa8 No.16607401
74cab3 No.16607447
Mass Effect is the same as weebshit
Mediocre if not extremely flawed games, but they have the lady sex so NEETs go ga-ga for it.
There’s some world building in there somewhere but it’s honestly not worth it.
0dd5a3 No.16607609
>>16606701
>torpedo posts
>it's fucking retarded
why is tor still allowed
1e1a3b No.16607620
>>16604943
Thanks for posting this. I know many general details about why Mass Effect as a franchise failed to be truly great but I will be sure to read this guys blogs to learn what I don't know about yet. Mass Effect for me is the most disappointing franchise I ever got into of all time. For maybe a whole year I was so into the first game that I was pretty much declaring it my favorite game of all time despite its flaws. Then part 2 comes out and its easy to see right away that Bioware had no respect for their own game with the retcons. Of course most "fans" probably started with the second anyways. Even still though I wanted so badly to keep liking the series. I tried to overlook it but eventually I had to be honest with myself that it bastardized the first game. Then I played 3 and well, I just cannot stand EA/Bioware and all of their employees. Screw them all to hell for ruining what could have been video gaming's greatest sci-fi IP.
As for the thread, I am glad to see so much posts. I have read about over half of the posts here and will be reading every single post. At least early on in the thread you guys were mostly spot on I would say.
9962fc No.16607628
>>16607466
Why the fuck are your posts still up, subhuman?
a76028 No.16607634
>>16607628
Maybe because talking about video games on /v/ is still allowed, contrary to your wishes?
9962fc No.16607647
>>16607634
That's not what you're doing, subhuman.
a5028a No.16607695
>>16607681
>posts obvious foot fetish shit.
>people call out his shit fetish.
>first inclination is to muttpost
The only subhuman here is you.
>>>/int/
fb037c No.16607716
>>16607695
Are you fucking retarded?
f228f4 No.16607776
>>16606998
Got any good Femshep lewds?
130685 No.16608057
>>16607254
andromeda was just milking the name, the trilogy was over and shepard dead (one way or another).
personally never expected anything to begin with because of that and >bioware anyway
>>16607265
>and dumping his original outlines in the trash made
just fucking imagine what we could've have had. fuck disney with a glowing rake
>how EA destroyed all their developers that aren't working on their sport titles and ruined every IP they had.
I'm not so sure it's all EA, quite the contrary actually. they gives companies like bioware and dice so much freedom, just look what they shit out. no slavedriver at the helm would allow for devs to signal their wokeness constantly on twitter, fuck up technically again and again and drag the whole game down with their shit.
just compare it to actual slavedriver like activision or rockstar etc.
96853e No.16608104
>>16607695
Former BO of /int/ here, what are you talking about? Are you confusing us with /intl/? We're two completely different communities. /int/ is the international board while /intl/ and all its offshoots were refugees from krautchan, I believe. /intl/ has also been dead for well over a year, just like us :^(
Though I agree that anon is being way too shitposty, he doesn't seem to be from either /int/ or /intl/.
23010a No.16608145
ME1, a minor success, is descended upon by MBAs. They plan to "maximize market share" and "provide value to the widest possible audience". i.e. water that shit down, make the story outmeal, add a space ninja, get some Hollyshit clout in there, fucking fire half the original creative team. Thus, ME2 was conceived.
And it worked. Mouthbreathers bought it. Their marketshare expanded. But lo, in their success they caught the attention of the SJW menace. And so, ME3 gained the progressive infection. Gynocentrism, glorified faggotry, and a complete debasement of the original setting, characters, and story.
In short: MBAs, followed by SJW fags ruined what you loved.
b8e836 No.16608218
It's a bit strange to say, but I was amazed that EA wasn't the big bad here. Sure they've done the usual terrible EA shit to their devs like forcing Frostbite, shoehorning multiplayer modes, and shorter release windows forcing crunch. But, almost every fuck up was BioWare's own doing.
6e39fa No.16608238
>>16608218
>>16608057
Stop ip hopping dude, being an EA shill isn't worth it.
a5028a No.16609834
>>16608104
Not your /int/, Halfchan /int/ which is pretty much /intl/
2c0d12 No.16609955
>>16604949
>seasoned devs are replaced by starving graduates
There were some screencaps explaning how they keep those people on 6 months internships for free or almost free
Off topic ,I wish Advent Rising 2 and 3 got created it seemed like it could go versus Mass Effect
I got a different question,Why did they made Andromeda in the first place when you can just make Mass Effect Universe things about anything you want,Garrus when he was still a cop,Some Krogan band of space pirates,Battarian sector wars,Actually doing Spectre work and not being savior of the universe,Playing as an STG unti(bonus for spreading genofagium story bits)
Why does it seem like nobody involved in making games actually has any interest in what they make,We could probably brainstorm 1000 ideas right here right now and a big ass company can't create one?
a5028a No.16609968
>>16608194
>and alien for human who is not a bird.
>For human (ape) walking on his legs and hearing roar of distant planed wind is thing tingles his senses.
I can't believe Mark is letting martians shitpost here..
670ce2 No.16609971
>>16609955
That's a basic pitfall of Andromeda, is that Mac Walters, who was the main writer on it couldn't set it in the ME Universe anymore without re-writing that ending. So he set it in Andromeda instead. A whole galaxy worth of rebuilding and they push everything away to have characters and stuff that no one cares about.
aca832 No.16610287
>>16604943
>Page 13.
>All those points that Drew set up that ME2's writers just tossed out the window.
https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=28475
It was bigger than I thought and something not covered in Reycervik's video. A proper ME2 sequel from ME1 would have you go around the galaxy exploring Prothen ruins and ruins of other civilizations for a superweapon or something about the reapers while you combat indoctrinated agents because even though Saren was under the influence, he was just the most visibile example of reaper influence. Could you imagine that as a proper ME2 game, instead of playing recruitment and chasing after the collectors? What could have been.
39fbd7 No.16611207
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16611165
>ape can't be a a bird.
Yes they can. I've flown planes before, so it's not like people are incapable of having lived experiences of flight (it's pretty similar to just driving for the most part).
9962fc No.16611250
>>16605696
>IT’S JUST A MAY MAY LOL THEY NOT SAME
Reported. You were already proven wrong.
9962fc No.16611269
>>16608057
>MC of force awakens was originally white
>had a literal ape/human hybrid sidekick
>jew jew abrams makes the sidekick the main character
Of course.
a76028 No.16611334
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16609955
>I got a different question,Why did they made Andromeda in the first place
They did a poll and people really didn't want a prequel. They initially had planned to make a game set in the first contact war but after a poor public response to that idea they changed direction. Which could have been a good thing if they actually left all the Milky Way crap behind and let us explore a new galaxy like how the first Mass Effect felt like a breeze of fresh air due to the original aliens you go to meet. They did give us new aliens like the vorcha and stuff, but after ME3 the galaxy felt very known and not as mysterious as in the first game. The problem with Andromeda wasn't that it didn't have enough from the trilogy, on the contrary, the problem was that it didn't come up with anything new. You had a new dumb overhanging threat, one new alien race and the same old races brought back but only the most conventional humanoid ones.
>>16609971
Mac Walters only came in during late development when the game was in shambles. After the NMS wannabe prototype fizzled out and a lot of devs leaving the project he got to clean up their mess. I do think Casey and Mac get an undeservedly bad rep, they're not as bad as people make them out to be.
8a9b20 No.16611337
>you will never sniff the inside of Tali's hardsuit
a76028 No.16611391
>>16611337
If Tali's sweat isn't musky but rather smells like sweet lime or something due to her alien biology, would you be disappointed?
0db46b No.16611443
>>16611334
>not as bad
just shit writers, which is enough when it comes to story heavy games.
09bd55 No.16611459
>>16611391
I am cautiously thankful the whole sweat thing isn't canon. That's just enabling the worst kinds of autists to come in and make the franchise into space furries.
8a9b20 No.16611491
>>16611391
Would still be hot.
>>16611459
Wait, what sweat thing? Was that an actual thing?
a76028 No.16611782
>>16611491
>Wait, what sweat thing? Was that an actual thing?
They referenced this in the final DLC IIRC.
2fd75b No.16611801
>>16611782
>they referenced this in the final DLC
I refuse to believe this.
f4d286 No.16612037
>>16611884
why is tali crouching in the bathroom?
8c0bd0 No.16612074
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16612037
she gets drunk in the Citadel DLC
8c1dd8 No.16612647
>>16612074
God that DLC was so fucking cringey, I'm glad I never played it.
8c1dd8 No.16612650
61b715 No.16612668
>>16612647
Citadel was bioware trying to gain good graces with fanservice up the ass instead of trying to make the ending less shit.
0dd5a3 No.16612671
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16612074
>>16612647
>finish ME3 and drop it mad
>see they tried to fix it with DLC a year later
>look up some clips
>see this
>instantly regret not only being a Talifag, but also ever being a fan of ME
and normalfags praise the citadel DLC
02fb31 No.16612699
Citadel DLC was great piece of content for the characters
but theres no denying its fan service to alleviate some of the MASSIVE BACKLASH REST OF THE GAME CAUSED
6bb07d No.16612989
>>16612889
>threatens own commander
God I'm glad I shot Wrex
8c1dd8 No.16613024
>>16612671
>>16612668
>>16612699
The irony of fanservice here being that real fans would prefer a better ending/game. Instead they decided to pander to fat, ugly women and insufferable faggots.
993303 No.16613041
>>16612989
>own commander
Not even close. Wrex wasn't even hired as a merc, he kinda just tagged along with Shepard.
ba41d8 No.16613183
>>16612989
Wrex is one of my favorite characters personally.
6d2a88 No.16613239
>>16613183
It’s been said before but the best way to play Mass Effect is as a renegade with Garrus and Wrex, it makes the story into the best sci-fi buddy cop movie.
ce6908 No.16613803
>>16613239
Pretty much the only way to enjoy these games.
0f3d2a No.16613827
>>16613239
The first game's party members are pretty bland outside of Garrus and Wrex, especially considering that the other dudes you get are
>GENERIC FEMALE SOLDIER READY SIR
>Carth Onasi but with more headaches then trust problems
>Underdeveloped shy alien with really hard to find armor
>Blue captive alien woman who could be the last person that joins depending on where you go first and is generally too inexperienced at the time to add much to conversation.
Both the soldier humans are too adherant to rules to mouth back, Tali is shy as hell, and Liara is quiet, while Garrus has a smartass, mouth and and comes from a casual military culture and Wrex doesn't give a fuck and is the requisite gung ho shootemup old marine. Both of them conflict often, but are ultimately friends.
And if Shepard acts like the dick of the trio, they generally have more lines and it plays off quite well with their attitudes.
You even have the whole Kirk Spock Mccoy trio thing going on, except you're the Spock because you're coldly logical or unemotive most of the time, Garrus is the empathetic hothead Mccoy, and Wrex is Kirk since he's all instinct.
ba41d8 No.16613830
>>16613239
Maleshep renegade and femshep paragon is how I played.
936fcc No.16613997
>tfw shot my best bro Mordin in the back to prevent him from curing the genophage
Sorry, mate, but it had to be done.
ce6908 No.16614017
>>16613997
Man they really jumped the shark on that one.
b36d72 No.16614056
>>16613830
I consider Renegade/Earthborn/Ruthless/Soldier virgin Femshep my personal canon and use only Garrus and Wrex like >>16613239 says.
936fcc No.16614077
>>16614017
How so? I liked the story.
8fb1d0 No.16614333
>>16614210
Wow. That's depressing as all hell.
Imagine having to one day explain that.
fae2ae No.16614425
>>16614077
I didn't feel it made sense for Mordin to go full remorseful and especially not being able to cure the genophage if you destroy maelons data in ME2.
b923bd No.16615040
bioware never made a single good game
a76028 No.16621284
>>16619585
Disgusting tbh.
0dd5a3 No.16621359
>>16619585
do gangbangs lean more towards cuckoldry or homosexuality?
I say it's more homo because you can barely see the girl through all the men and there's man ass featured at all possible camera angles
014e66 No.16621373
>Bioware try to appeal to us fags
>by adding a relationship with a fucking nigger
>not a relationship with the shy robot
>not a relationship with the hot Turian
Talk about misunderstanding your audience, I guarantee straight women wrote those gay relationships.
96853e No.16621416
>>16621397
>that webm
Please keep your horrendous taste to yourself.
2b68e1 No.16621425
>>16621397
I un-filtered you to see if your posting got any better. I see this was a mistake.
014e66 No.16621433
>>16621425
Funnily enough, I unfiltered him just to see what he said to me.
a76028 No.16621450
>>16621433
>gays using filters
>the point of filtering someone isn't to not see their posts, it's to then let them know you did
Checks out.
803f82 No.16622029
>>16622015
>he still posts on /v/
2aaa76 No.16622048
SJW’s fucked it in the ass and all the real talent left when they saw the SJW writing on the wall.
Thats what went wrong OP.
Fortunately the excellent second game and it’s ending in particular gives you the player the choice on whether the series ends there or not and I chose to end it there.
I could only stomach about 10 minutes of Mass Effect 3 before I shut that fucking SJW garbage off and never went back to it again.
Lame opening + annoying as fuck horribly voiced wetback characters that do not belong in the series= I had enough.
In that sense it was the same SJW garbage that gradually seeped in ruining the campaign of the Halo games.
If you’re going to put wetbacks in the game at least make sure its a moderately cool one like John Leguizamo but noooo.
SJW’s much like current year Vince Mcmahon want to force us to like every charisma deficient fucker they vomit out at us.
96853e No.16623310
>>16622011
>>16622015
how have you not been banned yet
ad152d No.16623550
ME2 where the studio goes towards total progressivism and declines rapidly.
And Ashley only becomes shit in the second one where she's an ebil raycist!!!111
In the first one she's the cute chick which can't stand the fucking alien slime that exploits humanity.
Her remarks about the aliens fit in and where perceived as reasonable by the average player, so the made them completely laughable in the second and third game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niLWyn8Zn4o
Only humanity fights and the rest doesn't know or believe anything and doesn't do shit.
So in ME2 it's all about interspecies relationships personally and diplomatically and the old romances don't like you anymore as part of the story
because the antiwhite scum that took over the company can't handle a conservative, hetero, white woman.
So suddenly there was one tranny, and a bunch of slimy alien scum to fuck and instead of fighting off the attackers,
you, as a single human, have to convince the other star slimes to work with you against the obvious
even through all of them get attacked either way and should be willing to help out of their own survival instinct.
How did that star slime even survive that long?
>>16605336
>>16605394
>>16605433
>>16605442
It's all part of the agenda.
https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Miranda_Lawson
>Miranda remarks that he didn't want a daughter as much as a dynasty, which was why he used his own genetic template to create her.
Aka it's a modified clone of a man. A fucking scifi tranny.
d1ed21 No.16623616
>>16619585
>tattoos
>human testes on the Krogan
>a fucking nigger
jesus christ
ad152d No.16623630
>>16623616
Why did you make me click on that?
c43901 No.16623650
>>16623550
>Aka it's a modified clone of a man. A fucking scifi tranny.
I'm not in full agreement with that. There are tons of stories where there are series of clones that are based off of the original and are not trannies just normal women.
Advance Wars: Days of Ruin and X-23 come to mind.
Miranda's dad just seemed like the generic powermad scientist who wanted to create the world in his image.
d1ed21 No.16623677
>>16623650
>Miranda's dad just seemed like the generic powermad scientist who wanted to create the world in his image.
Considering that Miranda looks more like a crotch goblin rather a human do you think he browsed /d/ too much?
ad152d No.16623687
>>16623650
>There are tons of stories
But this is a Bioware story and Bioware women didn't have men jaws to this point nor were clones of men.
Why do you think your first romance fails even through you saved her life?
Why do you think Miranda has a man jaw? It's because of their agenda. Normalisation.
The teachings of Frankfurt School. (((Them))) and the ones they subverted.
513ed3 No.16623720
Mass Effect promised something it couldn't fulfill, a trilogy that had meaningful choices that would carry over to each game. Too many possibilities formed from all the options they gave you for them do to anything meaningful with them all. It might be possible Bioware could have done it, but with time constraints, EA, lost staff, and other unknown factors, this was lost.
The other feeling is that they billed the three games as a trilogy but it feels like the writers didn't have a major main draft for all three games. The main themes of a trilogy were there with ME 1 being the hopeful intro into the story, ME 2 being the darker part of the story where the hero has to grow, and ME 3 was the exciting conclusion. It parallels with something like Star Wars. However, there are a lot of disconnections, plot points that go nowhere, and connections that amount to a minor mention.
I know endings can be hard to pull off all media suffers from this. ME became an example of this for video games. The ending of everything you have worked for in the three games was a choice between slightly different endings where it seems nothing you really did mattering, expect the last choice. Sure, during ME 3 you had to collect enough good boy points to unlock all three four flavors of koolaid to get to choose from but the past games only really made it easier to collect all the flavors. The ending needed more time to be properly fleshed out, it needed to have been written from the start. The reapers doing their thing because "You wouldn't understand" is code from the writers that they don't know.
7a61e2 No.16623769
>>16623650
>are not trannies just normal women
Miranda is sterile because hes a man. Read about the shadow broker DLC
ad152d No.16623786
>>16623720
>I know endings can be hard to pull off all media suffers from this.
Go back to >>>/tv/
This has nothing to do with media or the competence of the ME1 team but politics in the game and irl with EA and the complete diversity takeover of the company.
a76028 No.16624311
>>16623310
Because I've not broken a single rule you niggerfaggot. Fucking kike mods just delete my posts for no reason while offtopic weeb pedos are free to spam their fetish material while not talking about video games. Talk about a board going down the toilet, I'm 99% sure some faggot from resetera got into a mod position.
>>16623550
Mass Effect 2 wasn't all that progressive tbh. It started in ME3 with the insertion of brown gays that nobody cares about into your squad.
>>16623786
The ending was only written by Casey and Mac, two key people that had been very important to the series from the beginning. The entire trilogy was Casey's brainchild.
d0af32 No.16624329
>>16604848
>What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise?
Two main things, corporate meddling/greed and then total incompetence on EA's side. complete SJW cluster fuck meltdown and total incompetence on the developers side. thats basically what killed mass effect as a franchise for the foreseeable future.
a76028 No.16624343
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16624329
Andromeda was such as shitshow, they somehow managed to make the game worse during development hell.
28cea6 No.16624347
>>16624311
>The entire trilogy was Casey's brainchild.
That's wrong though.
a76028 No.16624373
>>16624347
[Citation needed]
afc5e7 No.16624404
>>16623677
Seeing as how he had the technology to clone himself and he only made daughters, I think that’s proof enough.
a76028 No.16625006
>>16624404
It's just a sign of good taste.
014e66 No.16625117
Including deleted posts, a76028 has made about 21% of all posts in this thread. 17.5% if you exclude deleted posts.
1e1a3b No.16625279
>>16625117
Well that is pretty sad. Best posts I think were early in the thread. Especially to the guy who linked that guys blog site which I am interested in reading more when I get the chance. I really do still get angry at times that this franchise was so mishandled. I wish I could somehow save it and reboot it but its just never going to be.
037e0f No.16625310
>>16604848
>What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise?
It got popular.
037e0f No.16625314
>>16624404
>Seeing as how he had the technology to clone himself and he only made daughters, I think that’s proof enough.
>>16625006
>It's just a sign of good taste.
I wonder who's behind this post.
0dd5a3 No.16625422
>>16624311
>>16624373
>Casey's brain child
>when Karpyshyn's departure and retcon of his overarching dark energy plotline was what led us to the nonsensical Reaper motivations and terribad tricolor McGuffin ending in the first place
ok fag
a76028 No.16625471
>>16625422
Casey was the guy who came up with the concept and was the guy deciding on the creative stuff. Drew wrote a bunch for the two first games, but he was one of the of the main writers of the first game. Yes, Casey came up with some bad shit, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't the guy more or less responsible for everything that came before that. And I don't mean that he literlly wrote everything himself, just that he was the guy saying yes or no to things other writers came up with.
>>16625117
Yeah, I can't be arsed to IP-hop like you losers. I mean I could if I really wanted to but what's the use? It's really obvious when you guys do it to agree with yourselves.
0dd5a3 No.16625728
>>16625471
Making the call on other peoples' ideas doesn't make it his "brain child", anon, as evidenced by how he flew the series straight down the toilet the moment he assumed direct control.
>I-I'm not the only obsessed loser, you're all doing it too but hiding it
this is much more embarrassing than your reply to me
4a3757 No.16625731
>>16625471
>Casey was the guy who came up with the concept and was the guy deciding on the creative stuff.
so it he's the george lucas of bioware?
>>16623687
>Why do you think Miranda has a man jaw? It's because of their agenda. Normalisation.
hanlon's razor. frankfurt school wants entertainment for the masses to keep them quiet and pleased. sex sells, especially to the pleb masses, so making every female ugly does the exact opposite. remember those faces are based on actual models, why hire those when the whole plan is to make them look like shit?
also art school hardly teaches that shit anymore. look what the average tumbler "artist" shits out these days and thinks it's high art when they can't even do the basics (and it can't get more basic than polishing up a facescan).
so you end up with incompetent people high on their own farts literally too dumb to even properly enforce their agenda. welcome to western gamedev.
afad1e No.16625760
>>16625731
>hanlon's razor
Why do you redditniggers constantly post shit like this? It doesn't matter if some retard coined a phrase. There are plenty of instances in this world of people doing things entirely out of malice. Anytime I see an anon who uses phrases like "Occam's Razor" or "Hanlon's Razor", I assume the rest of their post will be entirely bullshit and I've yet to be proven wrong.
Stupidity isn't an accurate explanation given that marxists and other such trash, when in control of businesses, regularly and happily lose profit in order to push their narrative. Every single time they lose tons of profit and they just keep doing it because their end-goal isn't maximum profit, but complete control of the public mind and its' being bent to their worldview.
a76028 No.16625773
>>16625731
>so it he's the george lucas of bioware?
Exactly, but Lucas did nothing wrong.
f215e2 No.16625775
>>16625760
>Why do you redditniggers constantly post shit like this?
Lack of insight/intelligence while wanted to appear to be intelligent/insightful. Same reason they name drop argumentums in lieu of an actual argument.
a76028 No.16625777
>>16625728
>Making the call on other peoples' ideas doesn't make it his "brain child"
Mass Effect was literally his idea, you gigantic nigger retard.
204d24 No.16625991
What is people with always complaining about elevator loading screens? I have heard several references to it and never understood the problem.
I vastly perfected the ME1 loading screens because it at least got you a bit of dialog between characters and made it feel like the station was a single, large structure.
The whole shuttle shit I hated in the later games. I would agree with that horrible loading screen on the Normandy in 3 for no reason at all was garbage though.
4a3757 No.16626115
>>16625760
>It doesn't matter if some retard coined a phrase.
because the phrase is applicable in those cases and exist for a reason? if you're too much of a brainlet to get it it's not my fault.
>Stupidity isn't an accurate explanation given that marxists and other such trash, when in control of businesses, regularly and happily lose profit in order to push their narrative.
except they're not even good at pushing that narrative, which was the fucking point retard. also look up the peter principle while you're at it.
>Every single time they lose tons of profit and they just keep doing it because their end-goal isn't maximum profit, but complete control of the public mind and its' being bent to their worldview.
yeah, and how much does a failed company and laughing stock with games that even normalfags mock accomplish this exactly? there's plenty of evidence that bioware might be agenda pushing retards but more importantly also even shittier devs. pro tip: to actual subvert or normalize something you need to have the mass of plebs eat it up, not retardera.
so when you compare bioware to someone like disney they are, as I already fucking said "incompetent people high on their own farts literally too dumb to even properly enforce their agenda".
nigger
>>16625773
>Lucas did nothing wrong.
except knowing when he might go off the rails and know what people to listen to?
afad1e No.16626137
>>16626115
>because the phrase is applicable in those cases and exist for a reason? if you're too much of a brainlet to get it it's not my fault.
No, it isn't. Just because naive retards assume that there's never an agenda and businesses only ever care about profits, in spite of evidence to the contrary, doesn't make it true. Stupidity and greed are not adequate explanations for the current way things are.
>except they're not even good at pushing that narrative, which was the fucking point retard. also look up the peter principle while you're at it.
That's why a majority of normalfags at the very least pay lip service to it, if not outright embracing it. Right.
>yeah, and how much does a failed company and laughing stock with games that even normalfags mock accomplish this exactly?
It accomplishes it by desensitizing to the concept those who were previously hostile, and for making even normalfags who are lukewarm think it's "not that bad, not a big deal". That's what 'normalizing it' means. The same way faggotry was normalized, and racemixing; it was only done in small amounts at first, often encountered ridicule from the masses, but kept pushing and now it's normal. Pay attention to history, retard.
>there's plenty of evidence that bioware might be agenda pushing retards but more importantly also even shittier devs. pro tip: to actual subvert or normalize something you need to have the mass of plebs eat it up, not retardera.
Yeah they're shitty devs, but they're shitty agenda-pushing devs. Lots of normalfags do it it up, which is a problem that needs to be fixed. However, even if most normalfags are hostile to it today, the history and examples I mentioned above clearly show how such a method can bring out a normalization over time as those who are hostile stop caring, and those who are new to the entire thing see it as not a big deal at all.
>so when you compare bioware to someone like disney they are, as I already fucking said "incompetent people high on their own farts literally too dumb to even properly enforce their agenda".
Just because biocucks aren't as good as subverting good values as the mouse doesn't mean that they're not doing it.
Doublenigger.
945f49 No.16626147
It was a totally different set of personnel that worked on Andromeda. None of the original employees who worked on the original Mass Effect trilogy worked on it.
It seems like they relied too much on the brand name.
4a3757 No.16626319
>>16626137
>Just because naive retards assume that there's never an agenda and businesses only ever care about profits,
which I said where? never mind, I actually said "too dumb to even properly enforce their agenda". TWICE. nice try tho.
>That's why a majority of normalfags at the very least pay lip service to it, if not outright embracing it.
you mean the normalfags that didn't even buy the games? anthem was an outright flop, mass effect is dead and DA is their hail mary but will be equally shit since bioware literally doesn't know you have to at least make a fun game even if your only genders are man or goblin, not to mention write in an engaging way. no one is looking forward to their games, not even their drones that ate up mass effect and DA. same way BF5 flopped hard, so where are all those normalfags eating it up and are willing to pay for it?
>It accomplishes it by desensitizing to the concept those who were previously hostile
except for that to work THEY NEED TO BE WILLING TO LISTEN FIRST. how do you not know how that simple concept works?
>it was only done in small amounts at first, often encountered ridicule from the masses, but kept pushing and now it's normal. Pay attention to history, retard.
normal what? ugly chicks in shit games which people openly make fun of and do the exact opposite of what they're trying to accomplish? for someone who tries pathetically hard to come off as having (((them))) all figured out not knowing the basics is pretty hilarious.
MUH HISTORY also means fuck all since we're not full weimar yet and there's plenty of opposition. in case you haven't noticed the bad orange man is in the white house, causing endless autistic screeching since 2016 to the point even normalfags start to get sick of it and the evil "right populists" are on the rise in europe (together with anti-foreign sentiment, not to mention anti-semitic, cause as it turns out those rapefugees really hate the jews), so yeah, tell me again how it's all normalized now and new people just eat it up.
also, funny since you mentioned history: weimar failed (among other things) because they tried to much too fast and lazy even the normalfag population wanted to put a stop to it, not to mention the demographic change will swing back the pendulum at some point anyway, nothing lasts forever. bet you thought you were real clever with this one.
>Just because biocucks aren't as good as subverting good values as the mouse doesn't mean that they're not doing it.
which again, I never denied, but also was never the point since you can push whatever you want when no one gives a shit - or in other words, if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a marxist sound?
a76028 No.16628599
>>16625991
Yeah, I don't get it either. The elevators were fine.
>>16626147
Casey Hudson did work on it, he got called in after they had fucked up completely and he managed to get the mess cleaned up and releaed in like a year IIRC.
a76028 No.16628602
>>16628599
>Casey Hudson
I mean Mac Walters, Casey was called in to unfuck Anthem which also was in development hell at the time.
7654b3 No.16628646
Oh look, the literal paid EA/BioWare shill still has its posts up. And yet all posts questioning it were deleted.
a76028 No.16628660
>>16628646
Mass Effect is a dead series, nobody is shilling it. It'd be like shilling Sin or Alpha Centauri.
be5e41 No.16628716
>>16604848
What went wrong with Mass Effect can be summarized in two letters:
>E.A.
I had hoped that Bioware would have lived for long enough to actually deliver a proper ending but the undead corpse fooled me.
From a writing perceptive it was relatively easy if time consuming to write different endings that would tie up most if not all loose ends, hell I wrote an acceptable ending 'outline' which would take into account the different choices without changing much, if anything, from ME3. It would just need a proper writing team and plenty of voice actor time which would require a substantial amount of money.
cfa911 No.16628965
>>16606071
It was laughable dogshit, I eagerly returned it to the store within a day, cursing EA and Bioshit all the way there and back, it was the last game I ever bought. I wish it'd been the one before that.
cfa911 No.16629140
>>16604999
Mass Effect Trilogy Waifu Ranking
1. Jack (Yeah I know but she just needs it fucked out of her)
2. Liara T'Soni (Takes being fucked around on with Jack like a pro)
3. Miranda Lawson (Ass all day, no manjaw babies is ok by me)
4. Ashley Williams (MIA for too long to give that much of a shit)
5. Kelly Chambers (Normandy Love Pillow)
6. Morinth (Frivolous alien sex/death roulette, not sure why I'd chance it IRL but I would)
7. Samara (ditto with Ara vibes)
8. FemShep (Mine was fairly plain moralfag)
9. Tali'Zorah vas Neema (Bucking the /v/ trend hard by not giving a fuck about this creepy looking unfuggable clawed space jewess)
10. Samantha Traynor (Literally who?)
11. Diana Allers (Eject on sight)
Jack is a broken tomboy who thinks acting like a stronk is her only way to survive, she just needs to be properly –dicked– loved and the hair comes back in, the clothes get, 'somewhat' better she even gets a little motherly in the godawful third instalment.
30ab0c No.16629219
>>16604848
>what went wrong?
pic related, where are you anon? It's been 7 years already
5e41f1 No.16629227
>>16607063
What the fuck are you smoking? The ending is the same if you played the full trilogy or just the last 5 minutes. Literally the same. I agree that the implications of the three "endings" are interesting in concept, but they have absolutely nothing to do with player choices. And just to hammer that failure home, they released a "better ending" with small clips of the choices you made. I liked that, it was fine and the ending is just really shitty now, compared to the burning abortion it was before.
You are a bit of a sperg for thinking that those endings had anything to do with choices. You fucking retard.
508588 No.16629263
>>16629140
fuck off reddit
cffcc2 No.16629288
>Couldn't fuck the robot.
It had the biggest cocktease design in the game and was about the only think you couldn't sink Shepard's salty sausage into.
2fd75b No.16629319
>>16604848
The fact they didn't let Obsidian make it during their hayday.
1051bc No.16633994
>>16604848
Many things ruined Mass Effect, but a big one and one that was present even in the development of the first game was that nothing was planned for. The writers established a very powerful and serious enemy, but had no idea as to how that enemy would be defeated in the conclusion of the trilogy. ME1 just ends with enemy delayed. This was to be a trilogy in which the player would make important choices in each game and those choices would carry forward into each sequel, and yet… nothing was planned. The writers and devs had no idea what would happen in the future if you killed or released the Rachni Queen, saved Ashley or Kaidan, or whether or not the Council survived. Instead the writers were forced to make it up as they went along.
Perhaps it was an overly ambitious idea in the first place. After all, something like the death of the Council really should have huge ramifications that would shape the galaxy big and fundamental ways. How could you realistically work that into a sequel? You could never do it in a satisfying way. So it all gets reduced to very shallow cosmetic choices, if you are lucky. In most cases just an email.
Of-course as others have said the shift away from science fiction to action movies and comics didn't help. I think a big loss was Karpshyn not being the lead writer in 2 or 3. When Walters came on he immediately did a soft reboot of the series. New ship, new crew, new context for your missions, ect… ME1 had some lengthy conversations about politics that had real nuance but in ME2 it is mostly just personal drama. Some exceptions to be sure, but the biggest failing was that ME2 had a pointless main plot.
With ME2 failing to advance the main plot at all it meant that everything was left for ME3. An entire game had been wasted and so now ME3 would have to pull a solution out of its ass which would make that resolution feel cheap, convenient, and unsatisfying. What ought to have happened is that ME2 set-up the context and resolution for the ending of the conflict in ME3. It might have done that with ME2 ultimately being about finding the Conduit or it might have been about us learning something new and important about the Reapers that fundamentally changes how we view the struggle against them. Something that gives us a new perspective and changes how we perceive it.
How?
1051bc No.16633996
>>16633994
Again, it all comes down to planning. You see examples of this in ME1 with its hints about the Terminus Systems. They are described as a collection of SPECIES who are hostile to the Council and ready to unite and take up arms against it if they ever detect Council interference in their space. This sounded like an interesting concept where, after spending a game seeing the Council's POV, we would instead be exposed to the outcasts' side of the story. What are their grievances? Are some of them legitimate? How does a species become a rogue race in the first place? Instead the Terminus in ME2 are all the same races we saw in ME1 and they are just various merc groups. No depth at all. No new perspective.
Cerberus is another example with their operating procedures, philosophy, origins, and capabilities changing in each game. In ME1 they are explicitly stated to be rogue Alliance Black Ops doing weird experiments for unknown reasons. In ME2 they are retconned to be a human survivalist group with no connection to the Alliance. Operating in secret, they are apparently a 'flashy' shadow organization that none the less remains hidden despite being well known. By ME3 they have expanded to become a galaxy wide army able to field fleets of capital ships and occupy planets.
The best example is Liara. In ME1 she is a shy, introverted, but empathetic intellectual fascinated by archaeology. She is a very rational person able to come to grips quickly with her mother's death by using her logic and channeling her inherent asari mindset. Given that she'd known her mother her whole life and knew Shepard for only a few months at best it is very strange that in ME2 we find out Liara apparently became obsessed with Shepard and could not let him go. Not only him, but her drell friend. Now controlled by her emotions only two years later she has completely given up archaeology after finding an entire planet of pristine Prothean ruins and technology, after learning the truth about the galaxy. She is obsessed with revenge and towards that end has shifted careers to that of an information broker in the seedy under world of an asari colony, where apparently she has become adept at navigating social circles to gather gossip, to bribe and charm and threaten. She ends ME2 by becoming THE Shadow Broker, with access to a galaxy spanning information network… then in ME3…
So, again. NO. PLANNING. These games could have been great or at least had a logical and relatively consistent and believable, and satisfying, plot if anything about it had been worked out ahead of time. The devs should have asked; if the Reapers can't use the Citadel to enter the Milky Way then what CAN they do? What will the cost be to them if they can't use the Citadel? Does this help Shepard and co?
1051bc No.16634015
>>16633996
There is a similar problem in thinking when it comes to Andromeda. For obvious (but perhaps misguided) reasons the developers decided a spinoff/sequel needed to take place in another galaxy entirely. So why not Andromeda, the Milky Way's neighbor? However their approach here was fundamentally flawed because they did not plan it out right, did not ask the right questions, did not build off of their own lore. You might think that surely Andromeda would have nothing to do with Mass Effect lore, but you'd be wrong.
You see, the Milky Way as it is established in Mass Effect is a unique setting shaped by its history. Intelligent life is common but is purged after achieving interstellar capability every 50,000 years or so. In Mass Effect the oldest space faring civilization, the asari, has only been travelling the stars for a few thousand years. However what might the Milky Way look like if 37,000 years ago the Reapers had ceased their Reaping? We would see an interstellar civilization that is tens of millions of years old. What would that look like? Whatever the answer is, THAT is what you should have seen in Andromeda. A galaxy of unimaginably ancient empires that vastly out-pace anything in the Milky Way in terms of age and achievement. These would be beings who'd have had the time transform entire solar systems into artificial environments. Dyson swarms, ring worlds, disc worlds, clouds of cylinder habitats, and probably countless stars strip-mined of every resource in eons past.
The devs did try to go with something exotic with their silly floating rocks and islands, but that is a very shallow approach. Real inspiration should have come from real science fiction. Rather than watching whatever pop-sci garbage they did to find inspiration they should have read the likes of Larry Niven and Arthur C. Clarke.
272e8d No.16634029
>>16633994
>Planning.
Take note of page 13 again.
https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=28475
>In the past I’ve said that BioWare’s problem was that they didn’t have a plan for Mass Effect. After re-playing the first game and looking back at the arrangement of plot elements, I have to say it’s pretty clear I was completely wrong. Somebody did indeed have a plan. No, they didn’t know the secret behind the Reapers or how the heroes would stop them, but they did have a framework to build on. They had clear direction for the story. The first game spent a lot of time establishing a very particular arrangement of elements and characters to facilitate the quest-driven nature of this series. It was ideally suited to explain why a squad of three people on foot was the best way to solve the problem of genocidal machine gods.
Even if a proper ME2 follow up wasn't planned out directly ahead when ME1 was made, they set up alot of plot hooks.
>Reapers are an enigmatic race and can take as long as the writer needs to to reach the galaxy from dark space.
>Prothean ruins are basic plot points that can say anything the writer needs of the plot.
>The Council got to see a Reaper up close. Maybe they'll actually do something this time and Shepard becomes involved more in Council politics.
>Shepard can understand Prothean thanks to the Cipher. Ruins are locks, Shepard is key.
>Shepard is a Spectre. He can go anyway and has the authority to do so.
>Liara is an expert on Prothean ruins. Knows alot of locks to be opened.
>The Normandy is a one-of-a-kind stealth ship with the best pilot in the Alliance. Can get them where the writer needs them to go.
>Mass Relays can be opened to unknown sectors to introduce new details.
>Indoctrination can mind control anyone, Saren was most overt agent but there are more trying to bring the Reapers back, hell even Anderson could be under their control.
A proper ME2 might not have been planned out story wise but gameplay and end wise of ME, it had a perfect set of tool to build a proper sequel. They never used these of course.
8a9b20 No.16634043
I thought I was over ME 2 and shit shitshow 3 but the last few posts in this thread had managed to piss me off about the wasted potential all over again. Thanks guys.
a0385f No.16634053
ME3 feels like Work In Progress game, that wasnt finished even storywise and it just got dumped one day
It has MAJOR BUGS none of the earlier ones do, it has HUGE PLOTHOLES with clearly not properly developed characters or story
a0385f No.16634057
infact i look at some of the character interactions its so obvious its first draft, camera angles are fucking wonky compared to ME2, they look wrong
1051bc No.16634062
>>16634029
Yes, there was a lot of set-up, but there was no plan. Just elements established to provide several OPTIONS. I do not feel that constitutes a plan. Either you know how a three man squad will stop the Reapers or you don't. None of the set-up they laid out was used in ME2 anyway. Not really. The Terminus might as well have just been the Attican Traverse again.
It seems we agree they didn't use what ME1 built up for them, so what's the point in bringing it up as a defense? If that was your intent, I mean. I'll outline how ME2 might have built on ME1's set up.
ME1 is all about the finding the Conduit, which turns out to be a Prothean-built Mass Relay. As the whole twist in ME1 is that the Relays and Citadel are a trap laid out by the Reapers this seems important. A non-Reaper relay is a relay the Reapers don't control. What happens if is reproduced en-mass? A side plot or part of the main plot in ME2 could have been Shepard and co finding the resources to build new relays or perhaps devising a means, perhaps through use of the IFF and a certain Reaper-origined AI, to modify existing Mass Relays to ignore the Citadel's commands. It takes VIGIL's trick in ME1 to a new level. At first it was just the Keepers that were refusing the Citadel's commands but now, after the events of ME2, it might be the Mass Relays and Citadel itself that are shunning the Reapers.
Suppose in ME3 the Reapers can't use the Mass Relays? They might be so big and powerful that they can overcome this with brute force, but the cost of fighting across the galaxy that way, light year by light year, would be tremendous. The organic races as well would have a strategic advantage by their ability to continue using the relays, permitting hit and run against a slowly advancing Reaper front and playing scorched Earth, so to speak, with each system the Reaper's conquer.
Perhaps the Reapers are allowed to win the Citadel in a massive battle? They promptly turn off the mass relay network and then selectively enable it so they can spread out safely and harvest each cut-off cluster. Only then the organic races surprise them by attacking via their own shadow-network of non-Reaper mass relays, annihilating Reaper fleets in piece meal.
The point is, ME3 ends with the Reaper's own machinations turned against them. The technology meant to control organics has instead been mastered by them, becoming their own. The spider is caught in its own web and ripped apart.
1051bc No.16634189
>>16634062
Some other things to consider about ME2 is that it strangely does not follow up much on the geth attack at the end of ME1. It is drilled into us in the prequel novel and in the events of the game that AI are dangerous, are strongly regulated, and that as such the Council will take severe measures against potentially rogue AI. So where is the massive retaliation for the geth attack? You would think that in the aftermath the Council, or its replacement, would chiefly be concerned with eliminating this now awakened threat.
To eliminate the geth means going to the Perseus Veil and destroying them, and ME2 established the Perseus Veil is on the far end of the Terminus Systems. So to get there you have to go through the hostile Terminus races first. How do you do that? Can you pacify them? Ally with them? It would seem that Shepard at least would be interested in united the Terminus with the Council against the geth. That's the foundation for a united galaxy you'd want against the Reapers when they arrive. Of-course the first party likely to approach the Council is the Quarians; they want their homeworld back. If the Council is going to attack the geth and need passage through the Terminus then they might know how and it makes sense that the two factions should set aside their differences and unite against a common cause.
There are problems though. What is the consequence of destroying the geth and reestablishing quarian civilization? Surely this would greatly tip the balance of power in the Terminus forever. So who would benefit and who would lose? That will have a huge effect on whatever kind of alliance you can form with them, if any. Are the Reapers aware of this? Could they exploit these divergent interests?
How do you defeat the geth anyway? Raw force, or do you seek to neutralize them with an EMP or to control them? It seems that controlling or deactivating them each present great possibilities for benefit… but also huge risks. What is the right way forward? Everything is at stake so what do you gamble?
Granted, this is a somewhat predictable sequel to ME1 and I think many people speculated that this is what the game would be about. I'll give Mac Walters credit that his colony abductions come totally out of left-field and surprise and confuse the player, they might even spook and intimidate the player as much as they would the denizens of the Mass Effect universe. It's a good idea at its base because it is so strange and the ability to abduct thousands of people at once is a very creative and indirect way to establish Reaper power. However it does demand and explanation that makes sense. That's where Walters failed.
1051bc No.16634261
>>16634029
Great article by the way. I remember years ago, I think just after ME2's release, I read an article there explaining how saving Wrex on Virmire was actually a bad thing for the story and tone. It's more complicated than that, but in the end I agreed with him. It's a view that has shaped my perspective on fiction and story telling ever since.
Loss is good as long as it carries weight. One of my criticisms of ME2 is that it doesn't require any sacrifice. I think it is a huge wasted opportunity and a misfire that after building up and bonding with this team of wacky and sympathetic characters that you aren't forced to sacrifice any of them. It also defangs the enemy when the badguys can't harm you or your friends.
72ba29 No.16634799
1051bc No.16637630
>>16634261
>>16634029
His review of ME2 and most of ME3 is spot on, but I disagree with him that the Rannoch and Tuchanka storylines in ME3 are done well. I suppose within the context of ME3 they shine, but only if you are grading on a curve. The question of the genophage, its reason for existing the consquences for curing it, are never addressed in an intelligent or thoughtful manner and the portrayal of the geth/quarian war is childish and simplistic.
b8fd2b No.16637643
>>16604848
>What do you think ultimately went wrong with this franchise?
Bioware
1051bc No.16637652
>>16637643
EA acquired Bioware while they were making ME1. This is a cycle that has repeated countless times.
b0029f No.16637848
>spend the game finding parts to some doomsday superweapon
>instead of ending it with a satisfying bang you let out a color coded whimper
I could do with the retardation the 3rd game did if it would've atleast had a halfway satisfying ending istead of that whole bullshit "larger than life 2deep4u social-commentary" bullshit.
Just let the player shoot a huge fucking space lazer to deal with the threat and that's it, satis… okay enough ending that doesnt fuck up the entire series irrepairably. You could even let Sheploo die since for some reason (protein cipher) he's the only one able to shoot the superweapon but it takes his life in exchange or blows the fuck up or some such shit, that'd still be good enough end for the protag for fuck sakes!
1051bc No.16637872
>>16637848
I don't think ME3's ending needed a choice; the choices should all be decided by that point.
3a7c1d No.16637903
>>16637848
Casey Hudson's favorite vidya is Deus Ex so he made the ending just like Deus Ex's
there's a solid degree of irony when the most satisfying ending among those available is rejection, which the developers decided to implement as a non-standard game over
there's also the matter of whether the star child and the three choices represent Shepard being indoctrinated throughout the game; dumb as it is, it would at least make sense in the grand scheme of things, but Bioware went out of their way to deny it
1051bc No.16637936
>>16637903
I think the problem is Casey Hudson shouldn't be trying to write sci-fi epics .
f12d2e No.16637995
>>16605325
>zoomer
Kill yourself.