db2c4d No.16242577
What is the actual solution to making dismemberment compelling and useful as a game mechanic?
There's no reason to shoot off limbs when headshots kill faster and take less ammo – there's only one head to shoot vs. 2 legs. There's also little reason to aim for a non-critical area just to see a unique animation, and disarming an opppnent is rarely more useful than outright killing them.
545a97 No.16242580
>Head has a helmet that cannot be penetrated by normal means
>shoot off the limbs and now he's fuggen useless
Also have you played dead space?
107139 No.16242581
>>16242577
Pretty sure Dead Space already solved this exact question, retard.
9edf97 No.16242584
>>16242581
Dead Space just says the aliens die faster if you shoot the limbs than the head. That's not solving the problem, it's slapping a plot-shaped bandaid on it.
db2c4d No.16242595
>>16242581
>>16242580
Forcing the player to shoot EVERY limb isn't a fun solution either
95ba6d No.16242601
>>16242577
>hit armored parts for scrap materials
>hit unarmored parts for stagger and more damage
f0c92c No.16242603
>>16242577
That only applies to games that have aimbot levels of aiming precision. In any game with moderately realistic aiming mechanics you wouldn't be aiming for the head 99% of the time because you wouldn't hit it; you'd be aiming for the center of mass to maximize the odds of actually hitting the enemy and only aim for the head when the enemy is stationary and presents ample opportunity for careful aiming.
6567fd No.16242615
>>16242603
This.
Jagged Alliance 2 has the right mechanics.
4a71f5 No.16242616
>>16242577
>helmets and heavy body armor would make it quicker to disable the enemies legs if you don't have armor piercing ammo
>you get more good goy points for incapacitating enemies instead of murdering them
>its just hilarious to cut enemies limbs off, piss on them and watch them suffer (have you ever played postal 2?)
7d45c0 No.16242620
>Robots
>Shooting the head off just disables the main camera, the robot is still dangerous and now flailing and firing wildly.
>The arms are where the weapons are, destroying these prevents you from getting hurt
>Blowing off the legs will make it only able to crawl after you, but still able to attack.
3e2f6b No.16242622
>>16242577
>Dismemberment needs to be compelling or useful
Why cant it just be fun?
If you really need something it's not hard to imagine it being used in combat
>Shoot enemies hands off now he cant pick up a weapon to fight back
>Enemy needs to be captured who holds some secret so you blow his leg off with a handgrenade so he cant get away
b06453 No.16242627
RE2make made kneecapping zombies the most efficient way to deal with them baring lucky head explosions your almost always better shooting knees out.
4ea379 No.16242669
>>16242627
One or two headshots on a zombie will stumble them. Fuck cutting of a leg it takes like 5 rounds. Stumble and run.
a5311d No.16242680
>>16242577
It's about making the gameplay as fun as possible and then add dismemberment as the cherry on top. Binary Domain for example is a helluva fun ride, but shooting the robots into pieces just makes me smile extra nefarious. It delivers feedback that highly compliments the main gameplay. If you build the game around gore then you haven't put your heart into the gameplay first, which will show in the final product.
69c23f No.16242683
EDF5 has giant ayys and frogs that can be dismembered to incapacitate them, although their limbs grow back a while after. I's still quite useful especially in case of giant ayys having still their helmets on who are about to obliterate you with their shotguns or laser cannons.
fb3f37 No.16242690
>>16242669
You don't have to shoot the leg off. 1 shot to the leg will stagger them compared to the 2 needed to the head. It's more economical to shoot their legs.
a5311d No.16242691
>>16242683
I want the PC version so bad…
ec84a1 No.16242703
>>16242577
headshot gives an easy kill
shooting the arms disarms but they can still run to alert others
shooting the legs allows you to get information on where secrets are on the map but has the risk of them attacking you anyway
9711fd No.16242710
>>16242577
Fallout 4 weirdly enough did something good with it, if you shot off the legs of a ghoul they would become helpless and couldn't fight back, then in typical Bethesda fashion they went backwards and removed that feature in 76.
a32509 No.16242716
>>16242603
But that's OP's point. In any instance where you can focus on aiming at a specific part of the body you're going to aim for the head because insta-kill>disarming/crippling them.
It seems the only solution is to not give headshots a high damage multiplier, problem is that when shooters establish that there is a body-specific damage system not aiming for the head seems counter-intuitive.
a23dde No.16242721
>everything is about gameplay
Maybe people just want to dismember people over terrorist gamer rage morbid curiosity?
a5311d No.16242730
>>16242721
If it's not fun, why bother? If interactive media isn't build around interactivity (gameplay) then the rest is just a mask of lies trying to masquerade the piece of shit at the core.
7943f3 No.16242732
What if you can only see a specific part of their body or they have armour/shield covering themselves? you cpould use it in some spy/military game to keep people sorta alive but incapacitated so they can be kept as prisoner and information from them. or you could do some shit with robots because even though you shoot their head off it doesnt mean they're gonna die, or you could use it for zombies.
one thing ive always wanted is a system where you could shoot limbs off and if they hit the guy behind him he would be stunned or if a body fell ontop of another guy from a height it could knock them out or kill them instead of some no collision or ragdoll but they get back up like nothing happend shit
17aec2 No.16242733
>>16242721
>Implying it's not all about gameplay
everything other than gameplay is just potatoes
532836 No.16242741
>>16242732
Shooting off a guys hand to unlock biometrics on say a security computer to help you during fights might be fun. Or if it the game had some kind of fear meter dismembering might increase the enemies fear and make them more erratic. Bonus if you can collect dismembered limbs and drop them on unsuspecting enemies like throwing snakes on guys in mgs3.
15b6a5 No.16242750
>>16242603
This tbh, in GTA4 it isn't always a good idea to go for the head. If you shoot the limbs it will likely stun whoever you hit therefore easy kill, assuming you aren't being shot by a rain of bullets.
15b6a5 No.16242753
>>16242584
In which they do, have you not played it? How is it no different from getting headshots?
>>16242595
Unless it's satisfying. Don't remember having to shit all the limbs either. Usually both legs will do it. Sometimes they're still fighting.
bf887e No.16242767
>>16242584
Dead space outright punishes you for headshots on some enemies, like the one that spits out a wave of little crawlers when you do.
>>16242595
You don't have to. Blow off the legs then stomp them to death.
a5311d No.16242785
>>16242745
That's Messiah, a (imo rather shitty) action-adventure/puzzle game, where the gameplay revolves around using your head. The dismemberment here is just a tool to accommodate the puzzle. A better example would be Neverdead, a 3rd person shooter, where you can get dismembered and have to make do with the remaining body parts, which was also pretty shitty. Why? Because they build it around the gore gimmick, and not around fun gameplay. Doom works perfect without the gore, but not without the gamepaly.
ed8aa2 No.16242912
>>16242721
just play that torture flash game then
b85e44 No.16242928
It would be useful if your gun had bad aim and you could never guarantee an exact hit where you were pointed
a5311d No.16242954
>>16242912
Perfect example, anon. Literally just gore as the main gimmick. This creates a shelf life for about 10 minutes of interest.
ef592a No.16242961
>>16242716
Then just give enemies good helmets that you can't penetrate with any of your weapons safe for that sweet revolver whose ammo is so scarce that you wanna save it up for the elite mookerfuckers. Simply shooting them in the legs also doesn't work - you have to aim for the vulnerable joints to actually sever a limb.
Or alternatively, implement an AI system where crippling an enemy soldier will cause his comrades to rush towards and try to protect him, making them easier targets for you.
Or go full edge and make the protag some XXX666DarkDemon666XXX who gains power the more his enemies suffer. Tactically speaking, a headshot gets rid of the sucker immediately so you won't have to worry about him, whereas severing a limb will have him still somewhat capable of shooting you, but also in agonizing pain that fills your special gauge or whatever. You could even link that up with special sync kills which DO NOT make you invulnerable for the duration of the sequence, but grant a boost in exchange for leaving you as a vulnerable target for a few seconds.
46f848 No.16242972
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16242577
Play Bulletstorm
You get points how you kill your enemies. Like the "Mercy" Skillshot, shoot a Skull in the balls and he gonna knee in pain until you shoot or kick to get points for a "Mercy" Skillshot.
1e5afb No.16242977
>shoot
Your first mistake. dismemberment doesn't belong in shooters. Ninja Gaiden 2 makes better use of dismemberment than any shooter ever could.
a5311d No.16242986
>>16242961
I loved the helmets in Goldeneye.
031391 No.16242988
>>16242603
Red Orchestra also did this correctly. Shooting someone in the hand made them drop their currently held weapon and shooting them in the leg totally gimped their movement, but you were usually glad to have hit your target at all.
000c5e No.16242993
A mechanic in some fps game that allows you to increase your power temporarily by absorbing fresh warm blood trough your skin because you're some mutated experiment that went wild or some shit.
There: you basically go around and stealth, jump behind the fucker and rip him in half to make as much warm blood pour out as quick as possible because other fucker could be nearby and he has a 0.50cal rifle and you dont. The blood bar drains continuously slowly and using your powers drains it faster so optimally you need to keep killing fuckers in gory fashion.
Oh and no press da button to take down enemy shit, also you could rip the arm or leg of dead fucker to keep it with yourself for a while and squeeze it out on yourself if you're faced with harder situation and gonna need those powers.
b72a8f No.16242999
>>16242785
And it's still a good example on how to make dismemberment part of the game in an effective manner but keep being a pendantic faggot while you're at it
<a 3rd person shooter where you can get dismembered and have to make do with the remaining body parts
Never Dead,now fuck off
2a9fb0 No.16243002
It doesnt make sense for FPS due to the aiming being based on player skill, making headshots 100% consistent.
In non-real-time games however you balance it out by making headshots have shit accuracy, making it a bigger risk to go for opposed to limbs or bodyshots.
a5311d No.16243021
>>16242993
Bloodrayne?
>>16242999
>it's still a good example on how to make dismemberment part of the game in an effective manner
But it's not. The dismemberment could be visualized as anything inside a puzzle game, like in Katamari. In Messiah they just used gore as an effect, not as a crucial part of the gameplay.
>Never Dead,now fuck off
I brought up Neverdead. Did you just skip the sentence?
e65cfa No.16243037
>>16242620
>Gundam
>Shooting the head gives you head part
>Shooting the arms gives you arms and weapons
>Shooting the legs gives you leg parts
You get the idea. More customisation is a plus. And New Gundam Breaker is still shit.
a5311d No.16243056
>>16243037
The Surge did this also, by letting you choose what part you want from the enemies for your own suit. Wasn't really balanced tho.
18b2b1 No.16243063
>>16242577
You make headshots not the best option overall.
Let's suppose that you deal double damage in headshots but you only have 75% odds of hitting them.
If you do the proper math, overall it's just an increase of 50% in the damage you deal, so if you were doing 100 DPS to the torso, you're doing 150 to the Head.
Suppose then that shooting the legs affects their mobility and thus helps aiming anywhere else in the body. Since legs are bigger, you'd have 80% odds of hitting, and for each one you disable, you'll add 20% hit chance to the head. Dismenber both, and you're 90% certain to score headshots, therefore limb damage helps with headshots.
Shooting the arms prevents them from using that part to attack. For enemies that have lots of health and thus will take several headshots to die, this means you're massively reducing the damage you'll take, important if you're not a bullet sponge yourself. Focusing on headshots only will get you killed before you can finish him.
Consider as well bleeding damage. Dismenbering causes someone to lose health from the bleeding. The more limbs you take off, the greater the damage. Fighting someone with a lot of HP makes it a better strategy to blow their limbs instead of aiming for the head only. Fighting multiple oponents makes it so taking limbs from everyone one by one is also a valid strategy.
08a5be No.16243129
>>16242577
Bountry hunter game where head needs to be intact to verify your contract because there still are chucklefucks who try to bring mangled heads to swindle money out of contract-giver.
And legs can be used to run away while arms can be used to fight back.
An RPG or a tactics game where shooting head is hard while Limbs or body crits have effects that offer a viable alternative.
75c331 No.16243145
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16242577
Have you heard of fun?
f0befe No.16243207
>>16242595
Dead Space ain't just being forced to shoot off limbs. It's shooting off limbs and then firing them back at the enemy as an improv weapon. If you don't think the dismemberment mechanic in Dead Space is the best shit ever, then you've clearly got irredeemable shit taste
12798f No.16243233
>>16242577
Back in the 90's they actually tried to solve this by making body armor and helmet actually protect the enemies. For example Half Life 1 (not the Source version which removed this feature).
Of course this leaded to some ridiculous and mocked situations like executing enemies via legshots, etc.
fe772d No.16243268
>crafting recipes that require you to target different areas of creature/robot's body
Monster hunter and Freedom Wars come to mind.
37add7 No.16243273
>>16242603
Yeah, but you'll be aiming at the torso, not at limbs, so dismemberment will, again, not happen.
b35fec No.16243401
>>16242601
The dismemberment mechanic in The Surge is pointless though, it's only use is doing slightly more damage to certain parts of enemies and picking what loot you want from them.
There's only one enemy in the game that's affected by getting a limb cut off.
a23dde No.16243411
>>16242730
>>16242733
>>16242912
Why are you being retarded?
Nowhere did I say its the only feature nor did say it has to be detached from the gameplay. Gameplay will be the with or without gore. Its just more satisfying/fun when enemies blow to bits or visibly become cripples.
a23dde No.16243416
gameplay will be the same*
1c48fb No.16243421
1a218a No.16243434
>>16242577
You get more points for cutting off limbs, and the only way to get an A rating is by cutting off every limb in the game while leaving every enemy alive.
Kids these days like "cheevos" as they're known on the streets. Market research is adamant about this.
e41e0c No.16243480
You could make dismemberment a part of the gameplay with a few mechanical tricks.
There's the Bulletstorm approach, which rewards players with spendable points for killing people in unique and degrading ways (blown off legs, crotch shots, environment kills, multi-kills). This encourages the player to get creative by rewarding them with potential upgrades and more guns.
There's the Fallout 3+ VATS system approach, which is more realistic, but works better in something that isn't strictly FPS. It's easier to hit a larger target; it's why police and military are typically trained to aim for body shots over headshots; it's much easier to hit a large target, and center-of-mass is still a very dangerous target to hit for someone with minimal/ineffective armor.
There's also another approach I don't see in games often, if at all; make it so body parts blown off of your enemies can be used as weapons. Did you knock someone's arm or leg off? You can use that as a club. Hitting someone directly with an explosive might give you half a femur or a rib bone, you could use that as a makeshift shiv. Sure, you may not do as much damage as a gun, but you'll save on ammo and get some really gratuitously gory action in the process.
43ca13 No.16243514
>>16243434
That reminds me of the no-kill run for Metal Gear Rising, where you cut everybody's legs off and wait for them to use optical camouflage and escape. You get "No kill" bonus points for it.
da5e68 No.16243655
>>16242577
Dismemberment can be a mechanic that's useful against tanky/bullet-sponge/armored enemies
000000 No.16243736
>>16242577
Play Bushido Blade for Playstation. That is all you need.
0a8850 No.16243849
Dismemberment and armor break seem like the same mechanic. Break one off to make the fight easier like slow down the enemy by taking down their legs or exposing a weakness. Your under the assumption that the game has infinite ammo when a game with a dismemberment mechanic would likely not. Also, not everyone has perfect aim to always hit a headshot that kills in one hit. In a survival horror game, where a dismemberment mechanic would likely be, you'd have to be very close to get such a sure-kill shot or specialized ammo and/or weapon to do it.
b3b70f No.16243860
In Remake 2 it's usually more efficient to shoot off limbs (mainly legs or parts of them) to down a zombie since it takes less ammo than trying for a headsplosion/kill and they're easy to skirt around after that.
e62714 No.16243943
>>16242577
The reason real fighters don't always aim for the head is that humans, and living things in general, aren't bullet sponges where you have to deal an x amount of damage before they suddenly drop dead. A shot in the arm or a leg may not be lethal but it will stagger the victim and drastically decrease its combat effectiveness. For the game to not be entirely about aiming for the head and nothing else the enemies should react to non-fatal wounds in a sufficiently drastic way, screaming and running, dropping their guns, or just falling over incapacitated by the pain. They wouldn't be dead yet, but just scoring a hit to make the enemy incapable of handling his gun should be much easier than aiming for unnaturally accurate headshots.
Dwarf Fortress handles this perfectly: A broken wrist is easily enough to turn the tide of the rest of the battle.
bd0f1c No.16244444
guns are a bad game mechanic anyway
hitscan is trash and so is bullet physics
2f600a No.16244577
Live dismember ment mod for fallout 4 was close before that game got creation clubbed to death
Enemies limbs blown off would slow them down
Was so much fun witha railway rifle and a big pack of ghouls
Is there a way to get creation club out of my game i paid for
The game is fun with mods but i draw the line at microtransactions being added fucking bethesda lol
ea73c1 No.16244613
>you're a lawman and you want the target alive
>enemies stick to cover and only show their arms to shoot
>kill-bots that can be disabled and re-programed to serve you
>score system that encourages exotic kills
>because it's fun
Just to name a few.
dbe014 No.16244678
>dismemberment
>shoot
Add bladed weapons and it starts to make more sense.
0a080b No.16244727
EDF5 has enemies where you can shoot their limbs off which temporarily cripples them when it comes to using those limbs thus, mixes up the gameplay to a rather fun degree.
>shoot off a leg or two then they have to drag themselves around
>shoot off their weapon arm they cant shoot their weapons anymore
>shoot off too many limbs they die
>shoot off their head they're dead
>shoot off their chest they're dead
You have to be quick about it or the aliens will regenerate themselves unless if theyre already dead.
Further in the game its even harder to shoot off limbs because they start to wear armor.
cfc947 No.16244734
>>16242577
There was a Judge Dredd game where you mostly wanted to arrest the enemy. You can't arrest a dead body, and you'll get in trouble with your superiors if you're just murdering every wannabe gangster you find.
You have to disarm most opponents to force them to surrender. Shooting them in the foot to knock them off balance helps, too.
8181ba No.16244798
>>16244444
If you're going to shitpost with quints, at least make it a worthy shitpost.
7510fb No.16245849
>>What is the actual solution to making dismemberment compelling and useful as a game mechanic?
In rimworld, removing your prisoner's legs is a good way of keeping them from ever making an escape attempt. Removing their arms instead is a good way of allowing them to desperately try over and over to escape but continually getting punched unconscious and hauled back to their cell.
1841ac No.16246332
>>16242577
making headshots ultra realistic so they only work when you hit the T zone, so if some guy has armor and a helmet on he turns into a bullet sponge, but if you pop him in the crotch/hip he immediately flops down
Im kinda pissed theres no games where you can run up to a group of enemies, rip one of their arms off then beat the shit out of their buddies with said arm while they howl in terror
not only do I need a game where I can be someone to death with their own extremities I want all the npcs around me lose their fucking shit at my specific actions instead the general panic, I want actual reactions to specific events not just plain cookiecutter scream and runaway
>>16244798
>>16244444
these are quints of truth, hitscan is shite and not even implemented in an interesting way and the only game where bulletphysics were fun was Sniper elite
5d6519 No.16251919
Dismemberment is useless only because headshots are really easy with KB&M or aim assist, but fuck that shit. Helmets are one option, but another is to have AI smart enough to keep their heads covered. Most enemies just stand there and fire, letting you blow their heads off with ease- if enemies actually hid behind objects and only popped out for a few quick shots, or even stuck an arm out and sprayed randomly to provide suppression fire for an ally, then an arm or leg hit would still be useful, especially with >>16243943 added in.
c1f243 No.16251928
c35493 No.16252166
>>16242603
lol but its a video game so who cares?
a76f58 No.16252250
You've got a few ways to encourage dismemberment.
>Raise the time it takes to kill everything so there is time to benefit from the enemies reduced mobility/offense
>Design enemy mechanics so that disabling them makes the fight a lot easier
>Give the player weapons that have a wide enough attack so that whiffed arm shots can still hit the body and feet shots are less likely to slip between their legs
>Create a reason to keep enemies alive leave exploding enemies alive to set up traps for their allies, salvage better rewards from intact mechanical enemies, future enemies fight less zealously because you dismembered but spared their friends, and extract intel about your next mission so you can bring appropriate gear or find hidden resource stashes
12798f No.16252272
>>16252250
+1 if you go full gore on the npc the loot he/she wear will be destroyed. This would be good because in lower levels (or when you grinding stuffs for selling) its forces you to think (do i need the xp or the loot more?) and makes the low mooks more dangerious. Meanwhile on higher levels the low level low geared mooks could be just totally destroyed for fun without getting full autismo on their stuff.
e98c9b No.16252493
RE6, for all its faults, tried something new with the J'avo to incentivise variety in where you shoot the bad guys. Their regeneration powers make bits grow back more dangerous occasionally, so shooting them in the torso can sometimes cause them to grow an invincible carapace there, or blowing their heads off can make them go berserk, or give them a stag beetle head they can instakill you with. It's not a sure thing, but it encourages you to try arm or leg shots instead. It's more of a third person brawler than a Resident Evil game anyway, so even against regular zombies arm and leg hits can set up melee combos for points/time in Mercenaries mode.
I think RE4 tried something like that with the Plagas that popped out of the Ganados' heads, but they were scripted to be on certain enemies in each area.
466404 No.16254282
>>16242954
Not engaging enough. You want the victim to be screaming and pleading with you to stop. Ideally you could have torture objectives with challenging win conditions
>get them to confess to something they didn't do without causing them to bleed
>torture without killing for as long you can
>mentally break them using only a feather and raspberry jam
You could maybe use electrocution and have to balance how many volts you dump onto them to inflict just the right amount of pain to cripple their soul without killing them.
8f901f No.16254335
>>16242972
Underrated game. Bulletstorm actively rewards you for using new and creative ways of killing enemies, not to mention it's a gorefest. You just reminded me that I got rereleased and you can play as Dick Kickem
d683e9 No.16254606
>>16242993
>A mechanic in some fps game that allows you to increase your power temporarily by absorbing fresh warm blood trough your skin
This game. As you deal damage/overkill enemies you get splattered in their blood, taking damage adds to a corruption and a chance of the following mechanic backfiring. When the blood gauge is filled your charcter changges forms nd get a stat boost. If your corruption is low you can control it, if your corruption is high you have a correspondingly high chance of getting those stat boosts… and losing control of your character and having them attack your party.
f40d6f No.16264401
4d17a9 No.16265482
>>16242577
In MGS2 and 3 you could shoot their radios so thats kind of something useful. Again, headshot is best.
50f44d No.16265552
>>16242577
The Surge is a shit game but it handled dismemberment in a way that made sense. If your exo-rig was in need of upgrades you simply found enemies wearing the same rig and hacked off their limbs until you got upgrades for your own limbs.
db2378 No.16265648
>>16243207
Dead Space sucked and was boring as shit.
90d83d No.16265890
>>16242577
Does she really have a dick?
08fc8e No.16265942
>>16243421
Armored Core Last Raven, actually
08fc8e No.16265947
>>16243037
I'm still fucking angry about what a shit show NGB is. Goddamn. I got it on humble bundle for 2 dollars and it wasn't even worth that. I knew it was shit going in but it didn't even meet my already low expectations. Fuck.