/v/ - Video Games

>>16190358

>Howis it that not a single game has managed to replicate the AI chatter in this game?

It has one of the most if not the most advanced AIs among shooters and in other games enemies are just written to run towards you and shoot, you're lucky if they take cover and stuff.

>>16190358

>They don't communicate where you are, what you are doing, nothing.

Because it's easier to program a literal hivemind that only knows to walk loops (or stand still) and shoot at you when you cross their path.

And since nobody teaches how to optimize code, 2 AI mooks attempting to employ a tactic against the player would probably melt your GPU/Console.

>fear dicksucking thread #942

I’ll pass.

>>16190366

Sweet, nobody wanted you here anyways.

>>16190364

It's not that advanced, just clever. It's almost the Sims on steroids if you think about it, context sensitive points that the AI can interact with.

>>16190366

It's not so much about FEAR to be honest, I just couldn't think of any other examples. I'm currently playing Division 2 and it just stood out how dumb everything feels because the AI acts retarded. It's not very smart to begin with but the constant quips just amplifies the shittyness.

>>16190358

GOGOGO

HOLD THE LINE

THE ENEMY IS EVERYWHERE

>>16190458

It happens to every popular game on /v/.

>>16190358

ever played bioshock? all the characters have different lines

>>16190506

Don't remember this honestly. Bioshock only had psycho murderers anyway so it wasn't as big a problem.

>>16190358

1998 called, it says it wants you to stop pretending fear did anything that wasn't done in the past aside from showcasing lighting and particle effects combined with lazy ez mode COOL MATRIX slow motion :)

>>16190534

>can't play non horror game with gay jumpscares

lol look at this faggot

>>16190478

No shit. But the anti-FEAR anon or anons (probably just one or a couple of autists) do stand out and seem to have a personal peeve against it. Looks like they spend their days browsing /v/ searching for any passing mention of the game.

>>16190542

FEAR was just the most recent example I could think of. I think Crysis had the same thing but I only played it on Delta where they spoke proper gook so I don't know. Point is that it's not happening anymore.

What about an FPS with anon chatter

>>16190581

>nice gold faggot

I didn't like fear, not because of its faults, but because its too linear and boring.

>go into room

>shoot, duck, cover, shoot

Despite this, its a good game hiding beneath limitations that the expansions did not address but somehow made worse.

Maybe the sequels are better but I sure as hell don't want to find out.

>>16190638

>Despite this, its a good game hiding beneath limitations that the expansions did not address but somehow made worse.

Except Extraction Point is literally that

>Maybe the sequels are better

No, they're worse

>go into room

>shoot, duck, cover, shoot

You can literally apply that to every videogame that's not a sandbox, and even then people will just create their own loop

>Taking cover outside the minibosses

Disgusting

>>16190658

>You can literally apply that to every videogame that's not a sandbox,

Not LFD2 :^)

>>16190638

Linear games with good level design and pacing are top tier though.

>>16190638

Nice try but extraction point is objectively better than the main game.

>>16190552

I see it too. You'll get the occasional low effort bait contrarian on other game threads like DMC nowhere near this much.

>>16190534

What's so scary about it? Looks like a normal shooter with jump scares.

>>16190670

That game is even worse than Killing Floor and in Killing Floor you do nothing but kill zombies.

The difference is that one actually requires some skill at aiming.

>>16190358

Most Devs don't care about AI anymore. All the retards want their multiplayer games. Multiplayer only games are also doing retardedly well so they won't justify investing in the AI since they can do fine without it.

>>16190379

The entire map has layers that informs the AI what is walls and floors, this was necessary for strips and goap. STALKER does the same thing where the map has a layer which exists solely to feed information for the system utilizing goap that they made.

But that's besides the point, in FEAR their sound clips are context sensitive. This is even easier then making water drain out of a barrel properly, yet nobody bothers actually doing it and just put the sound clips at random.

>>16190702

Sleep tight porker

Fear's AI isn't even impressive. You just like the smoke and mirrors shit. People fellate this game every week and it's always the same shit. You're like a 12 year old crying on a dadrock youtube comment about how you were born in the wrong generation.

Play better games and play more of them. Get over this highscool crush on a mediocre shooter.

>>16190702

sleep tight porker

>>16190713

>This is even easier then making water drain out of a barrel properly

I know and it hurts.

>>16190729

Nigger.

>>16190780

>playing audio files based on flags and randomization is revolutionary

>>16190786

Thanks for proving my point.

>>16190786

Better than Gaylo

>>16190806

Halo did it first :^)

>>16190797

You had none.

>>16190829

Not even close read >>16190618

>>16190829

>You had none.

Yes, that you had no fucking clue about what went into the AI of FEAR and why it was good. You went ahead and showed that you didn't.

>>16190383

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

>>16190458

The AI isn't quite the smartest, it's just the voice acting that makes it seem clever. It pretty much requires the levels to be designed around the specific way the Replicas behave, and the later expands make that readily apparent in their worst levels.

>>16190702

sleep tight porker

>>16190866

>>16190729

The game was released in a time where videogames had dumb ai. In Max Payne 2, I remember enemies killing themselves through grenade spamming.

FEAR's AI still holds up to this day.

>>16190836

I have, have you read it? Its where the smoke and mirrors and does random things, relies on flags and just randomly spouts voice lines comes from. Is this like the EU piracy study proves piracy is good for vidya thing? Where the people posting it never actually read it and just go off headlines?

>>16190984

>FEAR's AI still holds up to this day.

You only say that because you haven't played a game from past 2007.

>>16190990

>Battlefield 2 Modern Combat has over 6000 lines of chatter for AI teammates in the campaign mode.As you progress through your mission, your teammates warn you of incoming enemy fire, casualties, enemy positioning and movement and much, much more.

This just proves it, FEAR is the ultimate game. Why is the industry so dead? Why can't every game just be FEAR? I need less enemy variety and more grey corridors.

>>16191002

>This just proves it, FEAR is the ultimate game

How, exactly? What I said has nothing to do with FEAR. Both games came out in the same week back in 2005, there was no inspiration from one to the other if that's what you're implying.

>>16191013

Wait nevermind.

>>16191027

hello jim

>>16191002

>You only say that because you haven't played a game from past 2007.

And that's a bad thing?

You're just digging your own grave at this point.

Give a 5 games that have F.E.A.R tier AI and production values.

>>16191002

>You only say that because you haven't played a game from past 2007.

AI development hasn't improved beyond specific games. If anything from all the new games I've played I'd say there is a regression and all the latest bots are at the level of Doom which is as simple as it could possibly be.

>>16191002

>You only say that because you haven't played a game from past 2007.

You realize you could have supported your argument better if you just named some examples, right? There may be more technically advanced AIs than F.E.A.R., but there's no point to them if there's no level design to make use of that AI. Imagine what the Replica soldiers would do if the levels was just a flat open field with bits of cover strewn about or simply a linear corridor. In fact F.E.A.R. 2 and 3 highlight the consequences already.

Because their AI chatter is just that; chatter. The AI itself is very simplistic in reality, they just put in the effort to record lines for every minor object you take cover behind since the levels in Fear are very small, claustrophobic and linear so it was much easier to do than most shooters.

Fear is such an overrated game. I couldn't bring myself to go past 3 hours on it. The level design was boring and the slow mo gimmick got tiring pretty fast. Fear just felt like Half-Life if you took away the good level design, fun movement options, interesting weapons and varied enemies. Is it bad? Not really, tech-wise it's very impressive. Is it overrated? Damn right it is.

Both the HECU Marines and the Skaarj Warriors are better AI than the Replica Soldiers.

>>16191100

>but there's no point to them if there's no level design to make use of that AI

Or if you center the entire game around bullet time, which makes the AI completely useless.

>>16191221

> Skaarj Warriors

Absolutely fucking not.

>>16191226

>Or if you center the entire game around bullet time, which makes the AI completely useless.

I don't think anyone thinks the bullet time is actually well implemented in FEAR even if they like it, but that's sidestepping the point

>>16191252

Also notice how one marine gives covering fire while the other is busy reloading. Never seen them do this before.

>>16191221

>HECU Marines

Hamstringed by ineffective level design most of the time (I recall the lab where you find the Gluon/Tau Cannon being an exception because of the more circular level design). Enemy AI can't reasonably express itself through attacks or movement if the level designers are still stuck in the Doom mentality of fixed enemy placement where the designer designs a combat encounter around the idea that enemies X and Y will always be shooting the player from positions Z and A. Or in the case that all enemies in hitscan, having to face them off in open flat areas sparse with cover or completely linear corridors only facilitates degenerate peeking in and out of cover to minimize guaranteed hitscan damage.

>Skaarj Warriors

This is not an applicable example. In Unreal most of your weapons (and the enemy's weapons) will be projectile-based. For an AI in a game with a largely projectile-based arsenal it makes more sense that the AI is capable of dodging player shots and leading their own projectiles to hit the player while it's moving. Skaarj AI wouldn't work in FEAR because everything in FEAR is hitscan, nor would it work vice versa. In Unreal you avoid damage by dodging projectiles, in FEAR you avoid hitscan damage by taking an alternative route through the arena to flank the enemies without the risk of getting shot back at.

Cuz lowest common denominator sells

Why put in effort when shit like overwatch sells

>>16190702

sleep tight porker

>>16190364

I remember fleeing some "rooms" that actually allow it (without blocking off the way back in some way, pretty rare) and replicas won't even follow you, they'll just sit there forever until you come back. They're just actors playing out their specific roles in well designed "arenas". That's level design being good, not A.I.

i assume if has something to do with replica sounding and looking the same/using same AI(well theres different types but they all seem to belong in certain groups), so its like group think, coordinated ai but still limited to specific cues but more organized like a unit

it seems to be something Monolith spend most of their time, while developing this game, i assume something similar is in use Shadow of War

i dont know, for some reason devs arent willing to spend time developing this as much as they could, its difficult sure but always pays off

i mean look at all those huge battle in Monoliths Middle-Earth games, probably would have not been possible if they had not worked on it in FEAR

i want this shit in every game, i want it now

>>16190358

The chatter or the actual AI tactics? Because, frankly there are so, so, so fucking many games that do one, the other or both better. Half Life for one notable, older example. I'd go as far as to say how Fear is one of the worst FPS games I've ever played. In absolutely every regard at that. Shit generic level design which is almost completely tight on rails corridors or corridor like scenery, the story that's pretentious drivel with a healthy dose of shit just doesn't make sense. And finally the gunplay which is god-fucking-awful across the board.

>>16194202

Flashpoint. Far Cry. Soldier of Fortune. Swat. Take some leeway and count space shooter FPS and you can also throw in radio chatter from Independence Wars, X series or Freelancer. Now is this a legitimate thread where we can talk or just shitposting?

>>16190542

Man fuck off, it sounded better in F.E.A.R.

Or you know what, i'll say it in the Boomer AI language.

FUCK. OFF. IT. WAS. DONE. BETTER. IN. FEAR!

>>16190458

>that 9gag tier maymay

fuck off back to where you came from

The reason AI hasn't improved is because AI isn't designed to be good, it's designed to be fun to fight. As you make better AI it becomes more and more difficult for a human to win. A team of 4 guys should kill 1 guy no problem. 2 guys keep him pinned, one flanks and one throws a grenade. GG you're dead no matter what choice you make. Instead you have dumb AI which allows the player to feel powerful at the expense of realism. The closest you get to realism is Gears of war which everyone bitched about having to use cover and having the enemy use cover.

Rather than circle jerk Fear, which isn't very special the game you should be circle jerking is the Halo series. It has multiple distinct AIs for each race. AIs you can even modify the behaviour of with skulls if you wish. Grunts, Jackals, Elites, Hunters and Brutes all act very different to each other. They react to what support they have and change tactics to suit the situation. It's a pretty good set up over all. But no FEAR gets a circle jerk even though most people saying it have never played the game. It's very bland and Doom 3 did everything it tried to do but better.

>>16195636

Or just give the player some kind of an advantage.

In FEAR you get slow motion and can kill enemies in one hit with your fists/legs, in Half-Life the HECU Marines can't shoot while running.

Good design overcomes any obstacle and there is no reason why the AI shouldn't be at least somewhat competent.

>>16190383

I WILL DESTORY YOU!

ENEMIES EVERYWHERE!

I WILL DESTORY YOU!

>>16190358

Half Life 1 did it.

>>16195690

having to spam the Matrix just for basic combat isn't fun. The same way Gears wouldn't be fun if it was trench warfare for every encounter. First one to leave cover dies is just shitty game design.

Just get over your autism and accept a game's primary objective clashes with good AI. Good AI is not fun to fight against because real world combat isn't fun.

>>16190458

>likes F.E.A.R.

>sub-reddit tier normalfag memes

Really makes you think. F.E.A.R. is a fine 7/10 game but nothing more. Maybe if it had actual enemy variety and no weapon limit it'd stretch to an 8.

>>16190383

YOUR IN MY SPOT

>>16195761

First of all, you don't have to spam slow-mo to win encounters.

Second, you have a massive advantage in terms of health and even carry first aid kits with you.

The odds are always in the player's favour no matter what.

As long as you TEST your fucking game and make sure that it stays so, you have a good game.

Good AI simply makes every encounter much more dynamic and interesting.

That's the whole point of it.

>>16195798

When I release my game.

>>16190702

sleep tight porker

>>16195811

Godspeed, you glorious bastard.

But will it have lolis?

>>16195636

>Grunts, Jackals, Elites, Hunters and Brutes all act very different to each other

Here you're rating AI by the amount of diversity of behavior types. If that was the sole standard for what people want out of effective AI, then the beat 'em up genre including games like Streets of Rage or Final Fight would have the best average AI out of any video game genre, because the crux of those games is having to deal with groups of enemies of different types and different behaviors, which when combined can create all kinds of situations. Said enemy types often have a fixed set of different tactics for certain situations (e.g. a sniper enemy will pull out his melee weapon if you get close), but it's ultimately somewhat restrictive.

While enemy variety in FEAR is practically nil, the basic Replica enemy is versatile enough to respond effectively for a number of situations, can interact with the environment in the same vein as the player, and can also behave in a similar vein as the player. It is then the level design which brings the most out of this single enemy type and the level design which (should) make each encounter different, whereas a game like Halo must largely rely on varied enemy composition on top of effective level design to create a challenge worth a damn (you can't have a level filled with nothing but Grunts). But at the same time the Halo enemies lose out on versatility because you can't design every single enemy around being able to utilize the environment like the player can, because otherwise there'd be no point to the distinctions between enemy types.

>>16195761

I'm just going to go out of a limb here and make a wild guess: do you also think Vanquish is just another generic cover shooter? Because the more I read your posts the more I get the impression that you simply choose to play the games in the most boring fashion possible because you don't know how to play more aggressively without getting yourself killed, so you blame the game for being boring instead.

>>16190358

Why have there been so many fear threads recently? Is there a sequel coming out that they need to shill for or something?

>>16195819

Thanks anon.

A game with loli's isn't the style I'm going for. Sorry to disappoint.

>>16190358

That's because modern FPS AI is so barebones that there's nothing there to chatter about. FEAR was one of the last shooters where the AI had any complexity beyond "take cover, shoot, pursue if player disengages".

>>16195843

I'm going to ignore your post for being clinically retarded when you claim streets of rage and final fight have complex AIs. They use exactly the same AI for almost every enemy.

Vanquish is objectively a shit game. Same with God hand you probably jerk off to as well. The boost mechanic clashes with the cover mechanic. It's objectively better to play whack a mole than it is to boost around unless you know the level off by heart like you've spent hours playing bullet hell games. But you're clinically retarded so you probably have.

Halo's AI is superior because it has a variety of AIs which respond to different situations. Grunts with an elite act different to Grunts on their own. Jackals will flank and use shields to cover their allies while Elites will face tank shots and then start dodging as their shields take damage. Hunters will even adapt terrain by throwing things around. Brutes have different levels of range which effects their AI. While you jerk off to 50 shades of "he walks round a corner and shoots". Halo makes you look like a pleb.

>>16197692

The state of nu nu /v/. Where complex AIs interacting is dismissed because it's in Halo. Yet a game where you can make AIs loop as they walk to pick up an item and get knocked down is considered good AI because it's not Halo.

Post some smug anime girls. Show what a pathetic loser you are.

>>16197703

Nothing complex about halo AI. Would a level comprised entirely of fighting grunts be fun? Fuck no, yet FEAR uses the exact same single enemy type through the majority of its 10 hour playtime and still remains challenging and entertaining throughout. Every halo fan I knew growing up ended up either a homosexual, a tranny or a cuckold, they call them halofags for a reason. One of them even admitted to me that one of their favorite parts of halo was being bossed around by a big scary black man.

>The slack jawed retard stupid enough to buy xbox insulting anyone else

>Faggot who actually enjoys console FPS insulting anyone else

That's rich. Now fuck off back to cuckchan with all the other zoomer halo loving femboys.

>>16197725

FEAR gets boring after the third box room encounter with mild cover and the same AI. And now you're moving the goal posts because you claimed streets of rage AI is superior to Halos. Halos path finding is more complex than anything streets of rage does, which is little more than walking towards the player and attacking when in range.

>Be you

>Don't know Halo 1 and 2 have PC releases

>Be here so short a time you haven't seen the multiple Halo game nights hosted here

Imagine being such a faggot you start using cuckchan memes like zoomer.

Oh you hung around a lot of homosexuals, trannies and cuckolds did you? Strange how all those people also knew you, so we can safely assume people interacting with you have a high chance of being a faggot.

>>16197725

And because it's fun to bully you

Grunts

>Plasma pistol

>Needler

>Fuel rod gun

>Plasma rifle

>Spiker

>Plasma grenade

>Turrets

>Ghosts

>Phantom

>Suicide grunts

You have a complete set of enemies just in the Grunts in Halo. They cover vehicle combat, air vehicle combat, every role except sniper for infantry and even include a Muslim variant for the diversity quota.

>>16197703

The varying behaviours of the Halo AI is a meme created by Bungie by telling everyone it is varied. It's almost completely unnoticeable in the actual game.

>ai literally talks into your head

>don't even have to think about it

>PRAISE IT BECAUSE I CAN HEAR THEY'RE THINKING, THEREFORE IT THINKS

LOL

>>16197759

You're clearly retarded. You can see the AI differences in Grunts and who's leading them. They act different depending on if an Elite or a Grunt commander is with them.

But yea, keep being wrong.

does the multiplayer still work?

>>16197773

>Halo's AI is superior because it has a variety of AIs which respond to different situations

But ultimately the extent to which they can respond is limited by the type of enemy they are, losing out in versatility. A Grunt won't behave like an Elite and an Elite won't behave like a Jackal. This is not inherently bad or anything, but in Halo there's a lot more variety in types of terrain than in F.E.A.R's endless offices, which requires different types of enemies to make effective use of said terrain, such as Jackals when fighting in large outdoor spaces. Meanwhile there are effectively no sniper enemies in F.E.A.R. because most fighting is too close-quarters for snipers to be any viable.

At the same time the singular Replica enemy is very effective at utilizing the singular type of terrain available in F.E.A.R, and it kind of goes to shit when it tries to put you in these large outdoors environments. It's not exactly fair to compare Halo to F.E.A.R for the total sum of possible behavior states. because Halo has a lot of AI directives for situations which never even happen in F.EA.R.

>>16197762

shut the fuck up

>>16190358

As you well know by now, Fear's AI isn't great because of the AI itself, but because of clever level design. Smoke and mirrors. Not saying anything bad about that. But I am saying I think a better question is "In a modern industry built entirely on deception, why has no modern developer at least matched FEAR's level of deception."

>>16197773

I've played through all of them multiple times. If you consider hanging back for a second before walking up to punch you complex then you have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Path finding in 3D is infinitely more complex than "do not walk into the hit box for a second".

Keep posting the retarded faces.

It suits you to have an avatar.

>>16197774

FEAR has boxes within boxes. It's environments are stunted to suit the basic AI and make it look "good". Even Doom 3 has more complex AI

Halo has objectively superior AI in more complex environments.

>>16197783

This is totally true, and the best way of putting it. AI in video games are pretty much entirely retarded and its more about convincing you that they are a threat / utilizing them correctly. There are very few games I've played in my life that match the enjoyment if battling it our with Replicas.

That being said, OP is talking about the chatter, not the AI itself

>>16197784

>I've played through all of them multiple times

Do tell which ones you 1cc'd.

>If you consider hanging back for a second before walking up to punch you complex then you have no fucking idea what you're talking about

Arguing what AI is "complex" is pointless semantics and quite frankly doesn't matter for the gameplay if the AI can't be effectively utilized (try putting a "complex" AI in a linear narrow corridor with no cover and see what intelligent behavior it can display), what really matters in the end is whether the AI is effective in creating challenging situations. So in the context of beat 'em ups, having an enemy constantly hovering just outside your attack range is definitely an ingredient for an interesting encounter alongside the presence of other enemies where you'll have to adapt based on the present composition of enemies. Something tells me you're largely operating off a misconception on how beat 'em ups actually play out.

>FEAR has boxes within boxes.

What's wrong with boxes within boxes? If all enemies are hitscan, then I'd be grateful to have a lot of cover that breaks line of sight on top of alternative routes which let me get the drop on enemies without the risk of getting shot back at. Otherwise things would play out like No One Lives Forever where you have to shuffle in and out cover repeatedly to minimize damage taken and are unable to move forwards without getting guaranteed shot do death.

>It's environments are stunted to suit the basic AI and make it look "good"

Halo does the same thing, it just uses different enemy types for different environments to cover up the fact. Again, nothing wrong with that.

>Even Doom 3 has more complex AI

Do you feel this is a statement not worth elaborating further on? Because I'd think you could build a more stronger foundation for your argument if you explained why you think Doom 3 has a more effective AI.

Nigger you don't even deserve a (you) when you say people need to grind games until they get the perfect AI loops to not die while spamming the same shit over and over. Which only proves the AI sucks because it is so easy to manipulate.

Try putting complex AI in narrow coverless hallways and see what it achieved? Okay. Go play Halo. Where you often fight in coverless areas inside space ships. Just long straight narrow paths.

Halo uses all it's enemies in all environments. The only exception being vehicles because they obviously won't fit or hunters for the same reason. And hunters you could lead into tight hallways if you wanted to but don't naturally end up there.

There is nothing wrong with boxes within boxes, but the AI required to navigate an organic land scape is vastly different to a non organic one. I can program a really basic AI for boxes which doesn't need to handle shifts in terrain height. Compare that to a modern FPS which has to move up and down hills and mountains.

FEAR is jerked off to by people who haven't played it. It is little more than Half life 1 was, in an era that moved far beyond it.

>>16197844

>you say people need to grind games until they get the perfect AI loops to not die while spamming the same shit over and over. Which only proves the AI sucks because it is so easy to manipulate

That's why I clearly said before that any beat 'em up worth its salt will always throw in more than two enemies at once so you can't mercilessly exploit the AI of one enemy without the other one giving you a free back massage. Any AI in any game ever is exploitable by its very finite nature, so it's up to the game designer to cover the fact up to prevent the player from being able to exploit the AI in the first place through level design or in the case of beat 'em ups, throwing in multiple enemies at once, because no (good) beat 'em up even gives you the moves to loop multiple enemies at once to death. It's also why boss fights in beat 'em ups have respawning grunts. Shiva in SoR2 is piss easy to exploit because it's just a 1v1, meanwhile during the Mr. X fight you will have grunts constantly spawning in from random sides of the screen on top of having to deal with Mr. X to finish the fight. If anything these games encourage adaptability and crowd control more than learning how to exploit the AI.

>Okay. Go play Halo. Where you often fight in coverless areas inside space ships. Just long straight narrow paths.

And those generally tended to be the weakest levels because they hamstrung what the AI (and the player) could do, since both parties can't make real good use of terrain or cover if there isn't any to begin with. They're only made passable because of Halo's unique approach to weapon balance and some enemy designs like Jackals with shields, which has less to do with responsive AI and more with unique enemy properties, in the same vein how enemy AI in Doom is dead simple but the presence of an Archvile can change things up tremendously solely because of what it can do (revive enemies and spice you up), not because of it's super responsive AI. Also having to aim with the controller makes encounters in Halo more difficult than need be, I imagine.

In levels where there are actually multiple 'smart objects' for the AI to interact with like turrets or vehicles the Halo AI can stand out, but otherwise in bland corridor levels most of their AI directives won't even apply, save for some which actually affect gameplay like killing an Elite to make Grunts panic or berserk states. Because of the circular level design in FEAR the AI (and the player) always have more than one option for moving around the level, which helps making them feel more intelligent.

>but the AI required to navigate an organic land scape is vastly different to a non organic one

It isn't? Usually the pathfinding nodes for the AI are laid out across the movement space, a significantly different approach required to AI pathfinding or calculating line of sight is not really required between organic outdoor terrain and indoor buildings, except the former can't really take any cover since there isn't any to begin with. There are several encounters in F.E.A.R. where there's elevated surfaces or catwalks overlooking the bottom floor which play out just fine, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

>>16197919

>Cat walks are organic terrain

>Flat surfaces with single entry points to change terrain are the same as sloped areas with multiple elevator points.

This is why you never argue with autists. They're fucking retarded and have no idea what they're talking about.

>>16197926

>This is why you never argue with autists. They're fucking retarded and have no idea what they're talking about.

Do you actually care to continue this discussion and elaborate your point or do you just care about being right about miniscule details? Because I don't see the point in continuing typing all this up as a response if all you're going to do is cherrypick one point and leave it at that.

>>16198281

131206 has IP hopped at least once in this thread too if he didn't seem pathetic enough.

>>16197664

>>16197784

Ironically? IN some COD games - if you pay attention to the characters other people are playing in the game online. They will call out the enemy positions and locations, or what had just happened at a point you did not see.

For instance when you're running into that jungle map on MW2 or Black Ops 3 (I don't own these games but others I knew did, and I only found this out one day when I use to experiment w psychedelics.)

If there is an enemy in say a guard tower? When a soldier is running to the right of you or even to the left. He'll call out that enemies position and what they might of just done (throw a grenade, sniping, etc) relative to his and yours.

Shitty games, but, overall and interesting feature that I am certain 90% of the players in shooters like that don't bother to listen to at all.

god i fucking hate nu/v/

>>16190358

I recently pirated Metro Exodus. The enemies there do say where you are when they detect you and stuff like that.

>>16191073

Online killed AI. Bets AI is human player. And they even pay you to play your game.

>>16198512

Try multiplayer.

>>16191002

>You only say that because you haven't played a game from past 2007.

Okay, name some with better AI then FEAR.

>>16198603

S.T.A.L.K.E.R.'s A-Life.

>>16198323

>Monolith

>Shovelware

Just because you didnt play it when you were 4 years old doesnt make it shovelware

>>16190702

>>16190702

sleep tight, porker

>>16194045

Sounds like everybody got fooled.

>>16190552

You're half right, it seems like there are contrarians who shit up the thread for any game.

Mount and blade thread? Space thread? Doesn't matter.

I'm beginning to suspect it's a resetera poster.

>>16199024

whats with the increasing number of FEAR threads anyway? is someone gonna do a thing?

>>16190458

They're the people who spam the bethesdrone threads, what do you expect.

>>16199035

It's a weekly routine for the vcore child to fellate one of his hidden gemmies they just "dont make em like it anymore." It's tedious, boring and gay how a mediocre game from 14 years ago is now some sacred cow because it has bad ai that pulls the wool over so many

>>16199024

Niggers will be niggers, what can you do? The thread isn't really about FEAR anyway, it's about how games portray the enemies as bumbling cuntnuggets without any self-preservation or capability of communication.

This game fucking sucks balls. Literally nothing about it was any good or stood out in anyway. Babby's first console shooter that wasn't galo or cawadookie for zoomer faggots.

>>16199099

>fear

>hidden gem

you people are retarded

>>16199190

>console shooter

>fear

WTF are you talking about. Learn to bait.

Cheeki breeki

>>16199414

>ai

It just describes whatever you take cover behind to you and has a bunch of chatter. More complicated AI has been made before Fear, notably Half-Life and Operation Flashpoint. Games that came out years earlier.

>physics

That's all it has. FEAR is a tech demo.

It's not the AI of FEAR that's exceptional. In fact, it's rather simple. What boosts its apparent effectiveness is the fact that it calls out what it's about to do (spotted player, warning about grenades, barking death threats) and, most importantly, the level design, which allows it to perform its "attack the player from every possible direction" strategy.

That's basically it.

>>16199414

how to spot faggots

>they still think FEAR is a huge deal, and has the best AI of all time despite being a mediocre shooter, with gay bullet time, terrible story, shit artstyle and basic AI just like every other shooter at the time had

>>16199697

this, the AI isnt godlike, but the way the levels were designed to make the illusion of having better AI than it actually does creating a more fun and memorable experience

>>16199817

>>16199271

>>16199237

>>16199059

>>16199035

>>16199009

Hopped IP's have we?

>>16199836

You ain't fooling anyone, there's only one, maybe two autistic no-life faggots who keep saying FEAR sucks every single time it's mentioned in any thread. And they've been in this thread already.

>>16199817

You just forget when I say "for its time" many times over. I don't know what FEAR did to your family to make you feel the need to crusade against it in threads about the voice lines

>>16199841

you sound paranoid

>>16199861

and you forget that im talking about it now and so are most other people ITT

>>16199861

Fear wasn't even good for its time since the level design was shit.

The "contrarians" are right, this game's AI isn't THAT impressive. It only put in a bit more effort than is expected to make the AI more interesting/challenging. But that alone puts it ahead of the AI of virtually every other game even to this day. And it shows how little games have advanced in any aspect other than graphics (in fact they've arguably regressed in many ways).

>>16199892

Sure: It's all small and linear corridors that look exactly the same, with little to no verticality and there were no interesting movement options to make use of due to how claustrophobic it was. Nearly every level was the same grey factory/warehouse/sewer look and nothing really stood out or impressed me.

Compare this to a good shooter such as Half-Life, which I believe to be among the best when it comes to linear shooters. Everything flows just right, since you are never ripped out of the experience with some loading screen or cutscene, making it a constant flow of good level design. You have various movement options (such as bunnyhopping and long jumping later on) in these open levels with multiple different enemy types, ranging from generic hitscan soldiers with shotguns, machine guns and grenades to aliens that have tracking projectiles, that fly and shoot projectiles, that have charged up hitscan attacks, that are always placed in groups, enemies that with the help of the level design will try to make you panic/try to make you get cocky and run into barnacles or turrets, et cetera, et al.

There's a lot of variety and they can ALL be placed together in one map where you always have to be running, thinking or shooting. You have none of that in FEAR, I will admit I only played about 3-4 hours, but I can only recall shotgun soldiers, assault rifle/SMG soldiers and those big guys with a nail gun and a ton of armour. I just saw the same enemies, in the same grey warehouses and factories forever and ever. Looking through the wiki, the only things that I forgot were laser rifle soldiers and those robots with rocket launchers. That is not interesting or fun, that is the least inspired shit I have ever seen in my life. Design is law and FEAR broke it, you can have fancy graphics but none of it is worth shit if the pacing is all over the place and the level design sucks dick.

>>16190358

vegas 2 had decent ai chatter

>>16199827

You're a retard.

>>16200028

>3-4 hours

I don't know how long you leisurely sit around a level but generally speaking the longest it should take you to beat the first FEAR is about 14 hours. From the sounds of it though you didn't make it to the ninjas.

>>16200028

Sure, everyone agrees the visual design of the levels sucks, but what about how the levels in FEAR themselves play out?

Levels in FEAR are claustrophobic so there can be enough cover because hitscan in wide open areas with little cover and taking unavoidabke damage is fucking gay. Ever tried dealing with Chaingunners in Plutonia/TNT? It would be like that.

When I look at the enemies in Half-Life, I get the feeling that it's best described as "jack of all trades, master of none". You've got all these different enemy types, but only certain combinations are ever used. You rarely have to deal with a combination of soldiers and Vortigaunts/ the bigger alien dudes, as opposed to something like in Doom where all enemy types can be combined to create all kinds of unique situations.

It's essentially a different set of gameplay modes in HL, which isn't that surprising given how the game itself is a funky FPS-puzzle-platformer hybrid which focuses more on building an experience by frequently changing up the base gameplay to the point of bordering on gimmick city. Instead of building or focusing on one type of gameplay, it achieves variety by constantly introducing new gimmicks and puzzles which are often tossed away in the next level. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. This approach has the distinct disadvantage of presenting a type of gameplay you like, and then completely setting it aside next chapter because lolvariety. Remember the vehicle sections? Remember how bugbait becomes completely useless after Nova Prospekt? Remember squads? Remember XEN? In my eye this is an approach which can build a strong first playthough, but makes for some weak replay value, as you will likely know the solutions to most puzzles already.

Meanwhile F.E.A.R. has a razor-sharp focus on combat alone, save for the half-assed implementation of the horror, but at the same time FEAR doesn't have anything to fall back on unlike HL if it's the combat you don't really like. I don't think you can really compare HL and FEAR as full packages because of this. FEAR will sometimes pull a HL for the sake of lolvariety where it throws these invisible tanky crawling assassins at you which can only leap at you, which only makes you wish you were fighting Replicas instead. In FEAR's case the variety lies more in the details than surface-level gimmicks and crude changes in gameplay styles.

>>16200497

> but what about how the levels in FEAR themselves play out?

they're fine, inoffensive but get pretty repetitive. The point at which it goes from warehouses to shipping yards to ventilation areas it gets comical with how repetitive and derivative it is. The game clearly only works when the AI is cramped in corridors and the pathing is made to work with it. There's a number of points where the AI spot you, round the corner into an office with a window, then jump through the window to spot you again so you can kill them. That's the kind of level design oversight that happens more than a few times in the game.

They barely try to mix it up too. The mechs and armored guys only do so much. They start making section of the game where you're armed with a rifle that vaporizes its targets with a slug and they pop up in a windows to snipe at you like it's some NES zapper game although without the potential fun that comes from pulling a trigger.

That kinda shit had been at that point done to death in shooters and just goes to show how monolith was dragging the game around with such a lack of ideas and fresh designs.

Maybe other games benefit from having purpose built simplistic AI that can do two or three things to you, clear and defined but a number of different types of units that satisfy a variety of game play styles. Maybe Fear is the peak of that AI concept, a do-it-all* generic grunt AI. Generic grunts padding out basically the entire game? When they reuse designs that plainly show the AIs flaws it was probably time to draw it back a bit.

Never thought I'd spend so much time discussing what's a pretty plain 7/10 game from 2005, but here we are. Why do people ceaselessly suck its cock again?

>>16200527

also, why is the game 17GB? GTA4 got crucified for being 22GB half a decade later. This game reuses assets like it never went out of style in the 90s. What's taking up all that space?

>>16200497

>It's essentially a different set of gameplay modes in HL,

>continues talking about Half-Life 2

I was STRICTLY talking about Half-Life, the first one and the 2 expansions for it by Gearbox which are also pretty okay. Half-Life 2 is a very poor excuse for a sequel, and it threw away all of the best parts of the first one.

>Remember XEN?

Yeah I do, it was one of the most memorable parts of Half-Life and one of my favourites. What's your point here?

>>16198603

Skyrim.

>>16194045

>>16198826

>I ran back out to my killzone but the replica just stayed in cover and waited me out, wtf broken AI mechanics??

nice try point man

Creating some good AI is a difficult task. Majority of companies decided to dedicate their money and resources on prettier graphics because the very first thing you see is the graphical elements; and some poor folk like to equate modern progressing graphical detail as video game advancement. We've hit a peak where advances on that front has now slowed to a crawl.

Unfortunately, for the lowest common denominator, the gameplay is obfuscated where they have to actually play the game–and to the horror to shitters, get better– to experience more of it.

>>16200028

>Compare this to a good shooter such as Half-Life, which I believe to be among the best when it comes to linear shooters

Except that the level design of HL doesn't do the marines any justice (most of the time it's either popping out of cover for a bit to shoot or tanking hits head on, although there are a few "arenas" that help combat this) while FEAR simply took the idea of fighting them to the next level.

And it did that extremely well.

Quality over quantity.

>>16202406

>Except that the level design of HL doesn't do the marines any justice

Yes they do, the HECU marines from the first Half-Life are incapable of adapting so they're designed to show up around heavily scripted sequences. Note this applies specifically to the first Half-Life game and not the remake with tweaked HECU marines.

>>16200527

>they're fine, inoffensive but get pretty repetitive.

Surely there must be something more concrete in terms of level layout or the general setup of the encounters that makes it so repetitive (obviously it doesn't help if you approach each encounter the same way by abusing slo-mo and spamming medkits (which honestly should have been rebalanced)). As an aside, playing FEAR 2/3 helps you appreciate more what FEAR 1 did better in the level design department as well. Playing most contemporary shooters does, actually.

>>16201314

>Yeah I do, it was one of the most memorable parts of Half-Life and one of my favourites. What's your point here?

Don't you think it would have been cooler to get the Long Jump module much earlier into the game and give the game more time to experiment with it instead of only letting you use it for the last chapters? Like, imagine only getting the Gravity Gun in HL2 by the time you return to City 17.

When I look at most shooters at the time, like No One Lives Forever, RtCW, Black, Medal of Honor, Soldier of Fortune, TimeShift, FEAR 2, TimeSplitters, and Half-Life 1/2, but also recent ones like the new Wolfenstein games, they all betray a lack of confidence in their combat and core gameplay loop (except Halo out of all fucking things). The designers have no idea how to make the combat consistently engaging, so they try to spice it up by completely changing up the gameplay. That's why most of those games will always include most of the following:

>a (pseudo-)sniper section

>a forced stealth section

>a vehicle section

>a turret section

>in the worst case scenario an escort mission

Meanwhile the old school shooters like Doom and Duke rarely every had to resort to outright gimmickry, because the core gameplay was solid enough that you could make a multitude of good levels out of them without radically shifting the gameplay. The push for realism since then means that all enemies in shooters would become hitscan, greatly putting a dent into enemy variety, so most people figured they'd have to get creative with mission objectives instead of getting creative with level setups. Developers couldn't figure out how to make full-hitscan combat fun at all and were too hamstrung by realism to do anything too much out there (until the post '06 era when singleplayer shooters started shoving in superpowers to stand out, like Singularity/Wolfenstein '09/TimeShift). But F.E.A.R. showed that you can indeed make a full game out of full-hitscan combat if you actually attune the game with circular claustrophobic level design and an AI which can take advantage of it without resorting to radical shifts in gameplay, even if F.E.A.R. is not completely immune to it either. Only people never took notice of it and kept making cinematic setpiece corridor shooters instead.

I blame the level design less and more the lack of balance for F.E.A.R.'s mechanics that aids in making encounters feel repetitive my allowing players to play it repetitively in the first place.

>>16200533

>also, why is the game 17GB?

Probably because it includes the two expansions as well.