/v/ - Video Games

i've been playing zero-k, SC2, grey goo, lambda wars and i've been wanting to play WC3 but nighard won't let me play even after activating with a proper key

Fuck Relic

>>16133154

>wanting to play WC3 but nighard

Oh, right. The remaster's out. Been thinking about picking it up. Do you know if it sold well and got a good reception?

>not knowing RTTs are the hot new thing and will be the genre that will outlast RTSs since it can still demand the player dexterity of the mouse and the brainpower of 200 IQ tactics without being a dead game

>>16133330

Name me an RTT with as many quotable units as any RTS.

I'm genuinely curious

>>16133303

>>16133154

The remaster is out?

Already?

>>16133330

>since it can still demand the player dexterity of the mouse and the brainpower of 200 IQ tactics

lol This is what Company of Heroes brainlets tell themselves. Remember that you prefer games that are simplified because your brains can't handle the real, challenging thing.

>>16133363

Desperados has a shitload of memorable dialogue from only like couple units

>inb4 that's cheating because it's a stealth game

>>16133374

>hurdur i build a pretty base and mash buttons all day and hear "i'm out of fuggen rocks and minerals" non-stop and then finally after half an hour. some REAL BIG BRAINED FIGHTING HAPPENS

yeah right

>>16133378

>and then finally after half an hour. some REAL BIG BRAINED FIGHTING HAPPENS

This is how I know you don't play RTS games.

>>16133086

I’m playin AoE 3

It’s pretty fun.

>>16133086

Was there ever a properly kawaii RTS ?

>>16133378

Now that I think about it the five characters in Shadow Tactics are pretty quotable.

SHURIKENJITSU

>>16133086

AoE 2 HD still has a pretty active community.

I had this urge to play Earth 2150 again, but Escape from the Blue Planet has a time limit system which I hate, and The Moon Project/Lost Souls fuck you six days to Sunday in term of difficulty. Especially LS.

Plus, the Skirmish AI is laughably bad.

>>16133378

>finally after half an hour

I bet you turtle against AI exclusively in every RTS.

You fucking queer.

>Dead genre

>When MOBAs are still the most played games today

>>16133408

Several japanese ones, mostly touhou, otherwise just a few console releases.

I wish someone remade Empire at War with actualy good land battles.

Holy shit are they awful in comparison to the fun as fuck space battles.

>>16133086

Playing DTA almost daily. I know its not the best out there; but there isn't much else that strikes my fancy. A lost of the older stuff I just can't run because they're typically 16-bit or whatever and 64-bit says no to that shit. I'd love to try Metal Fatgiue out, but I hear it has issues with just running.

>>16133303

>remaster of WC3

What the fuck happened to that 24 player support they were going to add? It got mentioned once and now its like it never exsisted!

I keep getting the urge to play some older mediocre RTS games I played years ago even though they were not that good, mostly Maelstrom and Universe at war: Earth assault. Maelstrom was just a tech demo for the terrain deformation and water system but that system was pretty fun, especially when you played as the aliens and just flooded the entire map. I wish they made more good RTS games, I tried Grey goo but just couldn't really get into it. Are the beta the boring faction and the others more fun or did it just not click for me?

>>16133566

>What the fuck happened to that 24 player support they were going to add? It got mentioned once and now its like it never exsisted!

They lied.

>>16133570

>Are the beta the boring faction and the others more fun or did it just not click for me?

I think it really just didn't click with a lot of people. The gameplay felt so - I don't know, sterile.

It also weirdly reminded me of Earth 2160 - the Goo as the Aliens, Humans as the ED, and the Beta as the UCS (at least they construct buildings identically)

>>16133656

>The gameplay felt so - I don't know, sterile.

i agree, it feels like the game could have been much better, there are epic units but they all do pretty much the same, the shroud faction adds a little variety but that's it, and in some maps you can't play the human faction because you can't build conduits going down slopes and thus limiting your building potential

>>16133656

>I don't know, sterile.

this is a good description for it

something about the game just felt completely off and boring

>>16133511

I wish someone remade Universe at War

or at least made it easier to find and removed GFWL

>>16133404

Skirmish or campaign? I liked the campaigns, even tho they weren't historical like the first two. I still have yet to finish the warchief one.

Zero K has been fun.

>>16133086

This looks straight up gorgeous, is it the ambient light that helps?

>>16134118

Sprite-based RTS games need to return. Pretty-much all of them have aged really well.

>>16133420

seitsu

SEITSU

SEITSU

HAYAKU

>>16133566

>>16133303

>>16133639

>WC3

>but with the retarded nu-B.net

reminder that while bethesda are the ones to blame for DLC cancer, blizz were the first to push for virtualization gangrene.

>>16133408

I'd be interested, too, but I don't want to see cute anime girls getting hurt.

Do you guys think Byun's coming back to sc2 in two years, like he said? Sad to see my favorite player go to the military. He's only 25. Anyone else caught his last stream a few weeks ago? I gave up after 20 hours of watching. He must have been on for around 30. When I left, he said he wanted to reach 7k mmr on the korean server, top 3 or so, before going to bed. Don't know how he was able to play like he did for so long. He beat the world's best on no sleep. Wonder if he reached it.

Why haven't you taken the Lego Battles pill yet?

this is someone speedrunning the alien campaign, if you're crazing just some fun campaign levels or something you can play on the go I'd say give it a try

>>16133566

>>16133639

>What the fuck happened to that 24 player support they were going to add?

It exists you fucking monkies.

>>16133408

>>16134238

Grim Grimoire, it's a bit casual-ish but plenty fun.

Touhou has an aoe3 inspired RTS, it's alright.

If you're ok with just having kawaii girl units, then you can try the Mental Omega mod. The chinese, one of the yuri factions, and american (iirc) faction all have a specialist unit with an anime avatar.

>>16133497 is right, and if you want cute/jp stuff you're luckier searching console titles. You could try looking into Hanjuku Hero, it's mostly unknown in the west because nobody tanslated it ever.

>>16135804

memes aside turtling is pretty logical. Half the charm of RTS is building bases and without bases you have no units so.

If it works, people will do it.

>>16152136

Resources aren't infinite and if you've played any RTS you'd realize that this is exactly to have you expanding and moving as much as possible.

>>16152138

>finite resources

That's exactly the reason why people turtle. They expand bases to new resources.

>>16152143

…That somebody who doesn't turtle already took, and since this guy didn't invest in defensive buildings as much as you, his army is mobile and gets to kick ass better.

>>16152151

But turtlers build a fuckload of base defenses with every inch they expand on?

>>16152153

And I'm telling you that that's really inconvenient compared to having a mobile army, even if you want to play as defensively as possible.

If my turrets in one spot get destroyed, I'm fucked. If my army defending one spot is destroyed, I can move soldiers from elsewhere to reinforce the position. You also wasted fuckloads of time building all those turrets around the position, whereas you could have just dropped some resource gatherers and moved on to the next one with absolute ease.

>>16152150

>Original War

My nigger.

>Why the fuck is that game not more popular?

Because it was made by an obscure Slav studio that were passionate about their craft. Nothing like this game exists out there.

Also, did you play the sandnigger fan campaign?

>>16152113

Every true RTS Pro (me) knows that the only way to play RTS is to rush

>>16152169

>Nothing like this game exists out there.

It pisses me off to no end that this formula is out there for the taking, barel used, yet everyone just makes a billionth fucking Starcraft clone instead because fuck experimentation

>Also, did you play the sandnigger fan campaign?

Shit, I haven't. Didn't know there was such a thing out there

>>16152183

>yet everyone just makes a billionth fucking Starcraft clone instead because fuck experimentation

It's because most developers are lazy shits to whom making games is a job, not a passion. It's why we see so few games nowadays where you can tell the developers really went the extra mile or really wanted to make something memorable.

Most developers are just SanFran cucks working for EA, or Ubisoft or Acvitivison and making the minimal effort to earn their next paycheck.

>Shit, I haven't. Didn't know there was such a thing out there

It's on the Steam workshop along with a number of other mods. I'm actually surprised the game has enough of a following to have motivated people to develop a whole new campaign for it, where you get to play a mercenary in the employ of mudshits.

>>16133086

is that Twisted Insurrection?

>>16133452

To be fair that is genuinely fun in Supreme Commander, and Dawn of War with Firestorm over Kronus mod which turns the AI into a fucking relentless wave spewing machine that you try to outlast.

I just like to turtle and gradually expand my base while building strong defenses. Fun against AIs but just gets your shit slapped online. Too bad.

>>16152341

Pretty sure it is. I fucking hate how messy the art of all of TI's things is

>>16154303

Twisted Insurrection is a mod for TS, you nog.

>>16154344

Sure, it's fine for when it's in a map/mode made for that. It's just agonizing when people only play vs AI, turtle all day, then complain about mechanics or design.

>>16154813

Maybe a game like Dungeon Keeper is more your thing.

>>16154910

TI has been in development for ages but the team still hasn't made a graphical replacement for the Construction Yard when it's the most valuable building in the game.

FaF still has a great community, though due to my shit APM I tend to spend more time watching BRNK and Gyle than actually playing the game myself.

>>16155177

Haven't played 2, but the original Majesty is great because it's like a CRPG with lots of little gameplay details that contribute to worldbuilding. Like how Rangers and Barbarians have a unique interaction and help each other, or how you can keep Rogues from robbing your people's houses by building statues that increase their loyalty, or how heroes have visible inventories and randomized stats and their INT affects their likelihood to buy healing potions and upgrade or enchant their gear.

>>16156652

2 is a abomination and removes all of the AI for the individual units. It basically turns the game into warcraft lite where you blob your units together to attack the next target.

>>16155177

The amount of generic fantasy cheese was just right. The sequel was trying too hard to emulate or to even straight up top it; think of it in relations to a dead meme from the 00s that got force revived decades later by people who never understood the original material or context and you'll get a pretty good idea. Also like others said they removed almost all character from the individual heroes with certain archeotypes being revamped to dumb shit like rogues suddenly being a spunky french girl with a rapier, rangers going from hobos to power rangers or stock warriors going from meatheads to muh shieldmaidens.

>>16156718

Don't forget how they changed the artstyle to notblizzard cartoon-y with giant ass pauldrons, dual warglaives and gigantic crystal longbows.

>>16156395

You're a faggot and your game is shit.

>>16155163

In Total Annihilation, the only way to reclaim things was to individually select wreckage. I don't think patrolling even made construction units auto reclaim.

>>16156846

>origin

>>16157369

Wut?

I don't remember rouges being french females or other things you mention.

>>16157705

>pic 3

>shit eating smirk

I fucking hate this hollywood trope 'meme'

>>16157705

God I hate it. I don't even think you can build disposable gnomes in majesty 2.

>>16157372

Real Time Tactics.

Controls in a similar manner but focuses a lot more on controlling a small amount of more complex units instead of a large army of relatively simple units.

Often also drops entirely or partially base building to focus entirely on your army micro.

BG2 is RTT because of those reasons.

>>16136055

With inshitious both Google and inshitious know what you watch and can sell it instead of just Google.

And through the lower amount of inshitious users it gets easier to match IPs and watched videos to people if you smash the data from Google and inshitious together.

It's the exact opposite of what it claims to be. Instead of accessing YT unseen you stand out like a giant clown.

It's a fucking man in the middle. What could go wrong?

If you want better privacy on Youtube just install uBlock Origin or similar.

>>16158039

Well, invidious does not report to youtubers where the viewers are watching the video so that alone makes it better. Every time you embed a youtube video on here and some one clicks it, it tells the owner of that video, for videos with a meager amount of views like that one, it's basically just like sending 20 links to that person. That's why so many people who post ASMR videos on youtube know what 8chan is.

Also, invidious lacks the several dozen megabytes of cancerous javascript that youtube runs.

This isn't reddit, shill, your tricks won't work here.

What was the name of that one RTS-like game where you had to build bases and contain a constantly-spreading blue goo over elevated terrain? It's not quite an RTS but it was being made by someone from here.

>>16158126

creeper world

>>16133086

Isn't videogaming as a whole pretty dead? There's about as much innovation going on in videogaming as a whole as there is in RTSes.

>>16133154

zero-k kinda inactive aint it?

you just playing vs ai?

Don't know what you guys are talking about, RTS is one of the genres that still have games coming out.

…oh wait, Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 wasn't a RTS, I still count it as a RTS either ways.

More like RTS life support thread.

HAH.

I just want another supreme commander game.

>>16176411

There's Supcom 3.0 though

AoE2: HD still gets ~10000 people playing at any given time. Tons of random maps and civs to play and they are still releasing balance patches for it. It'd be nice if they released one last expansion (maybe a slavic/central european themed one) but microshit decided to make a "definitive" edition of AOE2 instead for some retarded reason.

>>16177615

WHERE?? Did THQ mention a new Supcom during the AMA or something?

Playing original command and conquer up to tiberian sun.

Pretty fun with various resolution and modernization packs.

>>16133825

>warchiefs campaign

Wow, I don't think I played that one either, and I played the shit out of AoE3 in high school.

>it's a sequel to the second act of the based game's campaign where you play as its protagonist's son

Based. That one would ignite the journos something fierce in the current year. You play the colonial white savior saving underdog injuns from bad colonial whites with your trusty injun sidekick. Then you rescue and B L E A C H his sister and produce the DLC's protag.

Campaign was always far superior to skirmish. Skirmish midgame is AI spamming nothing but halberdiers, skirmish endgame is AI spamming blobs of 40 cannon. Too retarded to be fun.

>>16152153

No (or extremely few) RTS are built to make turtling viable vs real players, anon, and all the good ones don't make it viable vs AI, either. There's a reason siege tends to outrange defensive buildings, and that's to force you out to fight to defend your investment while being out of range of your defenses. If you didn't overinvest in defenses, you can probably beat your enemy who has value invested in siege that is more meant for shelling buildings than fighting units, but if you have more turrets than troops, he'll have utter dominance in mobile forces, wipe out your attempt to break his siege and then gradually work his way through your turtle's shell unimpeded. Static defenses are mostly used early on or around important objectives to protect them from being blitzed.

Turtling only works vs shitty AI and/or in very generous scenarios, which is why it's so popular with your average casual RTS player who only plays campaigns and skirmish maps vs AI on normal difficulty.

>>16133086

Not well, my go to RTS games are all overplayed. RA2 YR has been played to death. Supreme Commander has been played to death. Dawn of War 1+2 same shit. Been playing AoE2, but even that is reaching the limits again.

>>16133162

Also agree with this. I'm still a bit angry about DoW3.

I must be mentally retarded but I've never been able to win a match of Warcraft 3 despite playing the game since I was a kid.

>>16185424

Because Warcraft 3 is a terrible RTS where almost all strategies involve cheesing or boxing in the enemy until they run out of units and you win

>>16185424

Dude, Warcraft 3 is genuinely awful. The same goes for Starcraft.

Don't play these trash gookclickers.

>>16181275

>casual RTS player who only plays campaigns

Campaigns are the main appeal of RTS though. At least until gookclick showed up.

>>16185508

>>16185554

>gookclick

Surefire plebfilter.

>>16186540

>Defending the creator of esports

Love that korean bug dick, don't you?

>>16186592

sour grapes

>>16186540

how do you have fun when you have to push yourself so hard to click 452353020 times per second while a single misclick or .0001 second stalling can spell defeat?

is the only fun part winning to you? is it gloating after the game?

is the gameplay part not actually fun to you, whereas the part after you win doesn't count as gameplay?

>>16189456

>Implying APM matters until the highest levels of play

>Being unable to comprehend other people may enjoy more demanding gameplay than drag-select and right clicking on the other side of the map

>>16133363

Surely CoH 1 and 2 and DoW 1 and 2 count, unless those aren't RTTs.

>>16189523

RTT is just RTS without basebuilding. CoH is the former, just with clunkier gameplay. World In Conflict is an RTT for example.

I still play Starcraft (Brood War, not sc2) sometimes.

>>16189456

>being this new

It's not hard to have the base level of APM required to be able to do all that needs to be done. You just suck.

>>16157499

They did auto-reclaim on patrol in TA, they just had a higher priority to Repair other units, and they only reclaimed when your actual max resource count for that specific resource, be it power or metal, was lower than something around 50-70%

The AI itself was also incredibly inefficient and you'd be rather selecting individual wreckages as that was infinitely faster than waiting for the AI to unfuck itself, at least for ground units with how slow they are and how pitiful their nanogun range is, it's much better to do this with Air Constructors as they take less time to travel to the area and aren't blocked by terrain nuances.

>>16185424

>>16185483

>>16185508

Would a mod that removes all Hero units and consumable items, but keeps the rest of the game intact, improve Warcraft 3? Making it play more like Warcraft 2, with a focus on army compositions instead of abusing creep XP and RNG.

Or would it still be an incredibly faulty game given the existance of Mercenary units and the Goblin Laboratory?

sage for doublepost

>>16189540

Has SC:Remastered been cracked yet?

>>16191235

I might as well point a few examples too.

Battle for Middle Earth 2 has some of the most simple economy one could ever see. A single resource that you get periodically from buildings you spread around, with some factions getting a building that lets them train harvesting units to boost their income by chopping trees.

The building that has to be spread around gives you resource based on coverage without overlapping with blocked terrain or another similar building, forcing you to expand.

However, one thing that newer players won't realize is that you can't possibly hope to just defend multiple fronts when you begin to expand with these buildings.The resource buildings force you to advance your army and keep the front line ahead of them as well as splitting your army to cover every possible front. It also helps to create avenues to attack your oponents and reinforces the idea that you're supposed to apply pressure from multiple sides.

What ends up happening however is that new players will try to move their one blob around the map to counter the opponent's attack, they'll keep losing resource points and waste resources rebuilding them since the oponent will attack from at least 2 sides at the same time, then they'll try to turtle with towers and walls that never last long enough on their own and then they give up because they can't figure out what are they supposed to do.

All they see is a massive blob on both sides when they can only muster a single one that they can't even attack with because then they lose the only defense they have.

That's another one, how armies double both as offense and defense in RTS games and one of the hardest aspects is knowing when to switch between both.

It's not even just how many you have, if your economy is good enough, it might even be worth to make a bad trade with the other player because the troops you lose are cheaper for you than for your opponent, relatively speaking.

Or knowing how much siege you actually need, for instance or what caster units complement yours better, etc.

There's plenty of stuff that you can just hand-wave with "git gud", but you switch from Warcraft 3 to Supreme Commander and you an entirely different economy, army composition, micro, macro, map control, etc despite both games being an RTS.

>>16133154

>SC2

I installed that semi-recently, saw the microtransactions and uninstalled without playing a match.

SupCom and AI War, if it counts, are really all I play in the genre.

>>16191449

Real Time Strategy games are about making decisions in real time and the less decisions you make the lower your chance of making a game-winning. That's why APM matters and why the player with the higher APM, all other things being equal will always win against the player with the lower APM. APM is a central element of RTS games, otherwise it wouldn't be real time strategy.

>>16133363

>I can hear the bullets whistling by!

>*Off key humming of Ride of the Valkyries intensifies*

>Stalin's organ, they call us. Tchaikovsky would fit better

Wargame has some gems.

AK-47'S

FOR EVERYONE

>>16191469

This is a misunderstanding.

APM is your reaction time.

That's it.

It has nothing to do with the decision-making process.

A person with low APM can beat an opponent with double just by knowing the map and the game better.

>>16189540

>It's not hard to have the base level of APM required to be able to do all that needs to be done

Somewhat true. 200 apm is achievable by most people, especially for males that like to play computer games, and this speed allows you to be competent with the Starcraft games, unless you're playing zerg in sc2, which demands more of you. I usually have around 220-230, and I wish I were a bit quicker. To both be able to handle the base-building and to constantly control units on the map, you want 250, really.

>>16189456

>you have to push yourself so hard to click

Not at all. Once you get used to a higher speed, it can be done with ease and no stress. I watch my replays sometimes in sc2, and I never dip below 200, no matter what I do. For you guys that are struggling with low speed, try to spam click and do things very quickly. Form boxes with your cursor and do other useless stuff; just to it quickly. Eventually, after no more than 10 games, you'll get used to the higher speed, be able to relax and the speed will be natural. Thath's what happened for me. I was stuck on 130-150 apm for a long time until I tried this. It helps to have the apm meter on, to watch for dips.

alright

playin wc3

>>16191669

>modern gem

Nigger you what?

I mean it's a great game and I still play it sometimes, but it's nowhere near modern.

On topic, I played Company of Heroes 2 recently. It feels like some of the design aspects weren't very well thought out. I really like the winter system though. Makes me wish for an RTS that has you deal with and manipulate the weather in order to give you tactical advantages. Or maybe terraforming like Maelstrom (but good).

Someone else did play Maelstrom, right?

>>16157369

So nothing wrong with game itself? It's flavor shit M1 fans are bitchin about. I didn't even know there was any memes.

Whats wrong with french females anyway.

>>16157705

Everyone's white in my game. You probably bought mutt version.

>>16133363

AoE4 will save the genre, right? I mean, it's being made by Relic, it's gotta be good.

>>16192716

Whoops, didn't mean to quote.

>>16152153

While you're fortifying the areas, which takes a lot of time, the non-turtle player is claiming far more map space, and thus more resources. Since he's invested in mobile forces and you've invested principally in static buildings, he can protect that map space without needing defensive buildings - his forces will outnumber yours. Sure, he can't contest the areas you've taken right away, but you can't contest his superior map control, so he doesn't even need to attack. And if he does feel like attacking, he can concentrate all his power on one place where you, with immobile buildings, have only the power you assigned to that place, or if you're playing a good RTS like SupCom then your static defenses are going to get fucked by artillery units to begin with.

And as the game continues, his greater availability of resources means his economy will grow faster than yours, and his forces more powerful faster than yours. In most RTS this will be a nonlinear progression, and the gap between your relative economies and available military might will quickly become impossible for you to recover from - you'll be crushed with overwhelming force, and the defenses you thought were powerful will prove to be next to nothing.

Turtling only works against braindead AI.

>>16194635

Imagine dawn of war one with all the fun sucked out of it. Also it's starcraft 2.

>>16194663

All I know is that they gutted the cover system from 2, but didn't they bring back base building?

Also something about Titans and a female pilot.

>>16194694

it's seriously dawn of war 1 with no base building, less unit variety, less feeling of unit variety with the lack of unit variety, and less interesting game dynamics. I'm not sure how they managed to downgrade a game so horribly.

>>16194722

>I'm not sure how they managed to downgrade a game so horribly.

By being nu-Relic

>>16136055

>Lego

Speaking of which, how did someone not make a 3d lego rts game with physics yet? I remember playing the shit out of LEGO Creator: Knights Kingdom because I wanted something like that so much.

>>16191449

>Knowing what to do so you're not sitting around idly is THE most important thing.

Explains why the koreans took to it like a fish in water. Fuckers are a nation of autistic fucks.

>>16194663

>Imagine dawn of war one with all the fun sucked out of it.

So it was basically DoW2 all over again.

>>16195051

What's the pic from?

>>16194860

>nu-relic

Lots of white women and soy? I love the company photos of these kind of companies. Always look like you'd expect.

>>16133162

Disappointed about DOW3, but COH2 has been pretty good, and their extended support via community balance patches has been pretty damn generous of them.

Admittedly, they wouldn't have kept supporting COH2 had DOW3 succeeded.

>>16198577

Checked. Yeah that's literally what Reric looks like now.

>>16133374

It's always funny to me how much Starcraft faggots hate Company of Heroes. It's like a noticeably visceral hatred of the game series. Almost like they tried it, sucked ass at the games, rage quit and now bitch about it online.

>Daily reminder that Blizzard has always been about casualizing and simplifying a genre for the masses.

>ie: Starcraft is the RTS genre casualized.

>>16198846

Sure whatever gook.

>>16135804

>>16152113

>>16152136

>>16152138

>Supcom: FA: "Hold my beer"

>>16198866

I just like building Mavors and Clink hammers. I'm an artillery autist.

>dead genre

Doesn't seems dead to me. Age of Empires 2 has 16k people playing right now.

>>16198866

>>16198846

Stop frothing at the mouth you fucking spastic. You look retarded.

>>16198866

>bold, red, all-caps text on 8chan

>talks like a schizophrenic

Every time. Are there several of you, or do you spend all your time on /pol/, /n/ and here?

>>16199130

Seems like you forgot to quote WC3 too, how odd.

>Playing any game but Brood War or Dwarf Fortress

Fucking casuals

>>16200152

>any starcrap, barely qualifies as RTS and is bascially glorified RTT

>not Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance, the pinnacle of RTS

>calls other people casual

>>16194635

Dawn of War 3 was essentially Rise of Legends, most anons are just too dumb to notice. However, it was ruined for 2 big reasons and 1 smaller one.

First reason was their main gamemode was assaulting a Core in someone's base, instead of traditional RTS "fuck every building\unit to win". This is what half started all the "it's a moba!" comparisons but it also screwed the game royally since it forged a very particular way of winning and playing. Every fight will always culminate in the same location and fought the same way.

It also made balancing the game a lot harder considering you know win by taking down a single building, which leads to…

Second reason was the balance. Anons won't know since they didn't got to play it and will insist that Heroes could solo entire armies, making your units irrelevant. In truth, this was more akin to a reverse Warcraft 3 where your Heroes play a support role to your units. It was easy to lose them if anyone concentrated fire on them and the micro required to avoid it while keeping them OP would mean neglecting other areas in the game anyway.

The truth was that you had things like Snipers or Scouts that could ruin games easily, which was made even worse for Eldars who had a specific Hero that made their Snipers even worse.

This is even compounded with the idea of "tech traits" that you pick before a battle begins to affect your units. Usually, you get some of them from recruiting a specific hero, but you could also unlock and freely use them instead.

There was a limit of 3 Traits, but there were still some combinations that were too good or had little counterplay.

Again, one of the best combinations was Eldar with Sniper Traits and Sniper Hero.

The smaller reason was the aesthetics, which angered everyone that paints models I suppose. It's aesthetics and wasn't that bad but it's easy to understand why Space Marines walking around like they are in light armor would upset the hardcore fans, for instance.

There were several things that upset me with that game. The first one being Relic really not helping their case with the Moba comparisons, which should have not been an hard job to disprove. The economy isn't based around farming, your heroes don't get stronger as the game progresses, nor does the game actually center around them either. But they didn't, they insisted on the Core for the game launch and even though they added a standard RTS gamemode later on, we still have mouth breathers claiming the game is a Moba.

The second is a follow up on that because their actual problem was terrible balance and very low TTK for several units which really, really doesn't work well for Warhammer, let alone Dawn of War. That's what made those who bought it eventually drop it. That and some decisions like Escalation artificially shaping a match. It's an interesting idea, but basing it on time probably isn't the best implementation.

The problem with all this is that you still have retards that really don't like "balance" in videogames because usually they understand it as "you're going to nerf the shit I like" when this is a prime example of balance being severely needed to prevent games from being Eldar Snipers on both sides all the time, or whatever is the flavor of the month meta strategy.

Then again, we are talking about Warhammer, that's how the tabletop is played anyway…

I swear that, if you take a look at Rise of Legends and Dawn of War 3, you'll have the weirdest deja vu ever.

Squad units, larger one are a single per squad, heroes you recruit mid-game with a passive to complement your army and strong powers to use.

Economy based around 2 resources, strategic points around the map to capture for your economy, a national power to activate and affect the scenario.

A civilization about militarized army that relies on tanks and similar to win, another that has a personal shield to deflect attacks, another that relies on ambush and weird movement.

It's just that the Heroes cost a different resource, tech is half done before the game, there's Escalation and units die a lot faster. But otherwise, it's RoL to a T.

>>16199410

>Is Grey Goo worth it?

Did you like Earth 2160? Then maybe, because it's essentially a modern version of that.

It's not an easy game to play if you want to do all the advanced counter play shit you're supposed to do at higher levels, but once you get there, it's actually a fairly simple one.

>>16202954

I think you are not giving enough credit to failed aesthetics & MP focused aspect of DoW3.

I never touched TT or cared about it and yet I wasted considerable amount of time both playing DoW1 and 2. The reason why I could enjoy both games with drastic differences (with horrible balancing issue from the beginning) was because it captured GRIMDARKness to the point where even normalfag like me could scream unit's battle cry as they sync kill enemy into badly textured blood puddle with above average music blaring.

It was not about being well made game ready to be adopted in e-sports scene / private ladder but letting me roleplay in aesthetically decades behind space opera. Single player campaign is what people bought early RTS games for anyway.

>>16199410

honestly no

the game is just flat out boring and not fun to play

pirate it and you'll see what I mean

>>16203110

>Single player campaign is what people bought early RTS games for anyway.

and to expand on that even more, it wasn't multiplayer but rather custom game modes that made starcraft/warcraft into the big boys they became

Even starcraft 2, despite e-sports marketing, had more people just playing single player than multiplayer

>>16203665

>custom game modes that made starcraft/warcraft into the big boys they became

That's true for WC3, but SC and the earlier Warcrafts? Most of the well known SC custom maps kept the core gameplay, namely BGH and Phantom. No one's playing Aeon of Strife nowadays, but I could still find a real BW game or BGH without too much difficulty.

>>16202954

>This is what half started all the "it's a moba!" comparisons but it also screwed the game royally since it forged a very particular way of winning and playing. Every fight will always culminate in the same location and fought the same way.

You forgot the whole turrets and shield generator (inhibitor) that feels like it was ripped straight from LoL.

>The economy isn't based around farming, your heroes don't get stronger as the game progresses, nor does the game actually center around them either.

Don't they (heroes) gain XP and get stronger akin to DoW2? I can't remember if that was just for persistent leveling or that and ingame.

>But they didn't, they insisted on the Core for the game launch and even though they added a standard RTS gamemode later on, we still have mouth breathers claiming the game is a Moba.

They literally just removed the turrets/shield generator/core from the maps for the game mode so the games played out basically the same anyway since the maps were originally designed to be a moba-like.

You forgot to address a few of the worst points of the game; heroes destroy army options. If you don't take terms as SM then you just won't be able to build them, same for titans, it really feels like you're given half an army despite the rest of it being in the fucking game. There are few options with heroes without gimping yourself, using SM as an example again, you should always take the Kill Team as the early tier hero there isn't another option for a 2 cost early game hero. They removed the dynamic cover from DoW2 and replaced it pre-placed bubbles. The game is just fucking shit, they tried to make a RTS game but either a SEGA suit intervened or a retarded manager because they wanted the LoL/DoTA2 audience and they failed horribly with the abortion of a hybrid we have today. So much of the fanbase were holding out for a patch that'd add Necrons and instead they got an announcement saying all support is dropped.

>>16203110

>I think you are not giving enough credit to failed aesthetics & MP focused aspect of DoW3.

Don't care that much about graphics to be honest or autistically roleplay either. For me, I was happy with the heavy metal orks so didn't cared much for the other factions. Was hoping that we'd at least get Nids or Nekrons or Tau.

MP Focus is just the standard for modern games, that's not really a point you can levy at them. It's multiplayer matches that keep the game alive for years and they are far more visible to the devs when it comes to perceive if it's profitable to make an expansion for a game, after all.

>>16206327

>You forgot the whole turrets and shield generator (inhibitor) that feels like it was ripped straight from LoL.

I did not and they weren't. The nodes where you could build those did not start with a turret right from the start, instead it was something you had to build yourself, which was already present in Dawn of War 1 anyway.

>Don't they (heroes) gain XP and get stronger akin to DoW2?

Nope. There's no leveling mechanics at all. Heroes kinda start stronger than regular units but only until you tech up, at which point your regular units can kick most heroes ass. There's some expensive heroes that required more resources but those usually can be hard countered since they count as vehicles too.

The entire point of heroes was preciselly to be a static bump in power to your army that you can pop in when needed, but not something that grows stronger the more it is used.

>If you don't take terms as SM then you just won't be able to build them, same for titans

DoW2 had Terminators being a faction power, so it's really not something I blame entirely on 3. And I suppose the idea was to introduce some variety so most matches don't end up being always Terminators in the end, nor can they win the game for you.

>you should always take the Kill Team as the early tier hero there isn't another option for a 2 cost early game hero.

You can do that, but then you're playing for the early game. In case your oponent manages to last long enough and he picked a stronger hero, you'll be gimped in late game. Cheap Heroes pop in faster, but they don't last long. They were a tactical choice for an easier early game to boost your economy and get an advantage, but only one tactics among others.

>They removed the dynamic cover from DoW2 and replaced it pre-placed bubbles.

The "dynamic cover" from DoW2 was something that rarely lasted, considering the amount of things that could destroy it, and often was light cover only as well. This is considering ranged combat, melee outright removes all of that.

You also have DoW1 to compare, if you want to remember the giant craters that worked as cover, being essentially the same thing, only often placed in irrelevant locations.

I seriously doubt they wanted the MOBA audience, considering a big focus of the game is still on the army and not on the heroes. They actually expect you to micro your skimmers to hit vulnerable parts in larger vehicles, for instance. And Escalation was all about managing your economy to probe with your army early and spam it later.

It wasn't a good game by many problems, but comparing it with MOBAs is one criticism I'll never accept when the game is closer to Rise of Legends than LoL or Dota.

>>16206445

>I did not and they weren't. The nodes where you could build those did not start with a turret right from the start, instead it was something you had to build yourself, which was already present in Dawn of War 1 anyway.

That's just wrong, turrets spawn on the start of the game which require no upkeep nor cost to build. Not to mention the stealth brush was ripped right from LoL/DotA2, if either of those 2 allowed you to make complimentary units instead of auto creeps, how would it play? Very much like DoW3.

>There's no leveling mechanics at all.

>at all

There's the persistent levels which affects doctrines (gameplay related)

>DoW2 had Terminators being a faction power, so it's really not something I blame entirely on 3. And I suppose the idea was to introduce some variety so most matches don't end up being always Terminators in the end, nor can they win the game for you.

But everyone had access to terminators in DoW1 &2 (assault terminators depending on commander choice in 2). In 3 you don't get "some variety" by removing options.

>You can do that, but then you're playing for the early game. In case your oponent manages to last long enough and he picked a stronger hero, you'll be gimped in late game.

If you fuck up your advantage of early hero vs no hero and don't snowball to a win you deserve to lose.

>he "dynamic cover" from DoW2 was something that rarely lasted, considering the amount of things that could destroy it, and often was light cover only as well. This is considering ranged combat, melee outright removes all of that.

The cover that spawns on the start of a map is destroyable but making cover with abilities/attacks lasts until the map is over not to mention standing behind vehicles like a predator can give you cover. Just because melee attacks aren't affected by cover doesn't make cover irrelevant instead gives counter play. The cover system in DoW1 feels half assed and they never properly expanded the mechanic, the only time it really comes into play is the negative cover in some crucial areas where if you get caught out your squad could be killed fairly fast. It just feels like they removed so many of the mechanics and fluff around the gameplay to streamline it so the casual market they are after doesn't get caught up thinking about it. It's like a load out shooter vs an arena shooter, with a load out you have everything you need on spawn, with an arena shooter you spawn with low tier weapons and need to snag them from around the map which gives importance to map control, pickup control and makes you think twice about engaging if you're outgunned.

>I seriously doubt they wanted the MOBA audience, considering a big focus of the game is still on the army and not on the heroes.

But it certainly doesn't feel that way, basically every unit feels like it's made of paper with low TTKs, their animations are all floaty with no weight behind them something that DoW2 actually succeeded at.

>They actually expect you to micro your skimmers to hit vulnerable parts in larger vehicles, for instance.

I just played DoW3 after not touching it for more than a year, holy shit the pathfinding is so bad. Honestly feels like a budget RTS from around 2000. I had an Eldar skimmer that didn't want to fly away from the enemy because another skimmer was behind it so it ignored my move order and didn't even attack.

>And Escalation was all about managing your economy to probe with your army early and spam it later.

It's honestly an artificial way to restrict what you can and can't do which takes away options and variety to the game. If you played the UA mod, an early balance version of the Inquisitors were to turtle up until you could get your baby walker which were OP at the time. You can't do anything like that in 3, you can't turtle up and tech up or rush your desired units despite economy not being a problem.

>It wasn't a good game by many problems

It's not a mediocre game either.

>comparing it with MOBAs is one criticism I'll never accept when the game is closer to Rise of Legends than LoL or Dota.

You have preplaced turrets, a shield generator that needs to be destroyed before touching the core and instead of creeps just spawning you spawn the creeps and control them. Every unit (especially infantry) just feels so disposable, like every unit is an ork boy from DoW2 designed to be cannon fodder.

>>16206445

>>16206598

100% they either pitched the game to SEGA as a LoL/DotA2 killer or they were forced to make it more moba like by a SEGA suit. Considering over 10 or so years SEGA paid Gearbox to make ACM and they did jack shit since SEGA was hands off, they definitely want to make sure the games they fund hit their milestones. You need to understand that LoL is (now was with Fortnite) the most played game in the world and DotA2 is always one of the most played games on Steam. When suits and investors see that they think "we can take that audience and make billions" same thing every WoW-killer MMO attempt without realising the multiple factors of why it'll fail (sunken cost fallacy, why play game-like when you already have game, etc).

>>16206598

>That's just wrong, turrets spawn on the start of the game which require no upkeep nor cost to build.

Are you talking about the 2 initial turrets in your base (that DoW2 also had)? Because it's not very honest to claim this is straight out of LoL when they are, indeed, only in your base and any other is built as a fortification of a node, much like Listening Posts.

The way you phrase it makes it sound like there's a line of turrets all the way to the enemy base.

>There's the persistent levels which affects doctrines

In no way is this even comparable to heroes farming creeps to level up faster than their oponents during the course of a game.

It's a shit idea that Relic even rolled back later, but this is not comparable to MOBAs.

>If you fuck up your advantage of early hero vs no hero and don't snowball to a win you deserve to lose.

That's correct, but unrelated. You mentioned how you HAD to use that specific hero to get an early advantage, but that's really not the only choice at all.

I really don't get why you keep harping on about the Cover, when it was functional for what it was supposed to be. Cover exists in points where fights will happen and not in wide open areas, much like Brush is placed in specific points to enable specific strategies.

Again, it's not a great point or anything too interesting, but it's only slightly worse than DoW2 and considerably better than DoW1.

>But it certainly doesn't feel that way, basically every unit feels like it's made of paper with low TTKs

And so are the Heroes, with the difference being that units are far more replaceable than them. Like I said, the low TTK is a serious problem with the game, but the heroes aren't immune to it and they die horribly fast if someone focus them. Most of them exist specifically to assist your army, with their passives being outright bonus to specific units.

>It's honestly an artificial way to restrict what you can and can't do

Not exactly, the point is to make early game less punitive (since you're refunded a lot of resources when you lose a unit) while late game sees a massive amount of units (since Requisition production is bumped a lot).

Honestly, there's far more artificial ideas out there that aren't criticized that badly, like Rise of Nations\Legends where building more of the same unit makes it cost more, forcing you to make a crap ton of different types instead of focusing on a specific one.

Escalation could potentially work if it was based around Nodes taken or Units produced. The more nodes and units you have, the less valuable each node is and you also have a smaller refund.

This would ensure a less punitive early game like they wanted but also allows for comebacks since any player falling behind or defending has their defenses refunded while the few nodes he has are more than enough to keep him afloat, and thus economy doesn't steam roll the game.

>You have preplaced turrets

2, in your base, not along a lane.

>instead of creeps just spawning you spawn the creeps and control them

There's more than 3 types of creeps and they are actually capable of bringing down a hero. They also serve as an actual army instead of being Gold\XP fodder for the Heroes.

>>16202319

>Sup Com

>Good

You obviously have never played Outpost 2. Or 7th Legion, the real successor to CnC.

>>16208075

SupCom isn't -bad-, it is just poorly balanced and bland. I played it a lot a long time ago and it is fun but it seems to reward defensive play.

>>16198865

supcom would be heaps better if you couldnt just improve your economy INFINITELY sitting in your fucking base

it might work in 1v1 but teamgames are fucking dull when the meta is just "shit out LOADS of eco and build some game ender that you cant survive without microing 40 shields"

>>16208482

>supcom would be heaps better if you couldnt just improve your economy INFINITELY sitting in your fucking base

This is a great point. By the time that you build a unit and get it to the enemy, if they saw it coming they can build something to respond and gain on their economy at the same time. The game making it pretty easy to scout, the large maps, and the slow unit movement add to this problem.

>>16208075

The unit you posted is from SupCom 2, that's why it looks retarded. Units in Supcom 1 are far more practical looking. The appeal of the game is mostly its scale, its flow economy and the strategic and tactical possibilites that are available to the players. It's fucking great.

>unit spam

You can put factories on repeat so you don't have to bother going back to queue new units. That way there's less focus on managing production and more time to maneuver your units. I don't think that's a bad thing, you can always split off forces or build a specialized group of units for commando missions or whatever.

>>16208366

>it seems to reward defensive play

Yes and no. You need to control the map to get access to mass deposits, so in that sense you are encouraged to strike out and claim territory as well as raid your enemy with bombers or small ground forces. However there is a comeback mechanic of sorts where you can recycle a portion of the mass in unit wrecks. Its still better to control the map, but if you're on the backfoot you do get a little help and a chance to fight back.

>>16208482

I agree when it comes to team games. Those are boring as shit when most of the team is just defending the one player in the back slowly building a massive eco to build nukes or experimentals. Those games drag on for far too long.

It might seem like I'm sucking SupComs dick but I just really like the game okay

>>16208075

With assassinate victory on there are so many ways to win late game and a lot of important steps you need to take to not lose. A player behind but not dead can still get back into it. Sometimes teching up might give you an edge, or might get you steamrolled because you spent time and resources on it that could have been spent on units.

It has the largest scope and scale of any RTS.

I wish Wargame wasn't a ded series.