/v/ - Video Games

Just add some fucking shadows for fucks sake. That's all you have to do to alleviate the depth perception problem. Oh, and please don't yank the camera every swing.

>>15997179

Sure. I mean.. competative martial arts exists irl and all. As does fencing if you want specifically weapons.

Kingdom Come and Dark Messiah do a good job of first person melee. I haven't played anything else other than shit like TES and the melee weapons from Deus Ex, Doom, Half Life etc.

Shows the true limitations of first person games very well. Breakdown, PVK2, Maken X are all pretty good

>>15997179

While I think that as >>15997620 stated first-person melee has innate hurdles to overcome I believe that a good and/or competitive FPM is possible. However, if you are looking for something that fully captures the enjoyment of actual melee combat that is currently an impossible task because without good haptic feedback things like feeling your opponents intention in the bind cannot be emulated and for many styles of fighting these concepts are integral to proper implementation of the tactics and plays that compose them.

>>15997179

Here's a better question that will help in figuring out yours:

What are some games with good third person melee combat systems that don't have lock-on?

>>15997707

Exanima? It has physics and shit, it's pretty fun.

It's never gonna get finished tho

>>15997184

Don't forgot to give it reach beyond 2 inches from your face. There is not a fucking reason why swinging massive weapons should require me to face/butt fuck my target.

KCD was good no matter what the brainlets say.

>>15997707

Jedi academy?

>>15997179

>1. Don't make the weapon on a different layer, make it actually exist in the game world so I can actually judge it's length, who the fuck cares that it would clip through stuff.

>2. Don't make it so the hurtbox is just an invisible bullet, and the weapon animation is just fluff. My sword should damage someone if it goes straight through them.

You'd think it'd be common by now, but no. I think maybe any dev that realizes these things also realizes that it'd just be better overall to go third person.

Make the kick really op and you have a winner

Dishonored is actually a pretty good first person action game, it's too bad they mixed it with stealth.

>>15998446

Why do they always give bows to women? is the least practical weapon for them, they should give them spears if anything.

Until games ditch viewmodel/worldmodel separation, we will never have truly good first person melee. It'll always feel weightless, it will always feel stocky, and it will always feel detached. Having canned animations of you swinging your sword in front of your face like a stooge and having it open a wound in your enemy's stomach is just total trash, or alternatively watching someone swing their sword at a character's gut and have their head pop off. It'll look more like that weird first person dark souls mod than any actual current first person melee.

>>15998562

Bow = dexterity, and women = dexterity, therefor bow = women. At least that's the idea for people who only know how to fight from playing Dungeons & Dragons. In reality of course a bow requires more strength than a sword to draw properly.

>>15998562

You're kinda right, kinda wrong. Bows require less strength and let you snipe people from a distance, making them a good weapon for slim females who aren't muscular shehulks. But women also have poorer depth perception than men, so their aim isn't as good.

Apparently VR has some melee combat games that are pretty satisfying. Maybe once it stops being a meme and becomes more affordable it'll be the place for games that focus on first person melee.

>competitive

Who gives a shit?

>>15998618

>>15998614

Conflicting messages here.

Skyrim's would be alright if it didn't feel like you were fighting underwater. I don't recall much about Morrowind's so I guess it wasn't bad.

>competitive

get out

>>15997220

Doom's melee isn't bad, but the crowbar in HL is kind of shit. I thought the melee in Deus Ex was a little weird but it could be worse

>>15998562

RPG clichés

>>15997179

No. The fundamental problem is one of intuitively discerning collision zones between the player's avatar and other objects. This simply can't be done without virtual reality. Third-person will always be superior.

>>15998614

>In reality of course a bow requires more strength than a sword to draw properly.

Depends entirely on the type of bow and definitely isn't an issue with modern compound bows.

Ah, well, some already said similar stuff, but here it goes:

First person melee combat will never be good with current user interface and controllers. You need more senses than just vision to fight. The best thing at the moment is Exanima's 3rd person combat, because it imitates sense of weight and inertia to some extent and you can judge the distance thanks to third person view at least.

>>15998948

>modern

Irrelevant.

>>15998614

Bows require strength, you do realize that right? at least long bows do, iirc the english variant of a longbow was about as tall as the average adult male and required a fuck ton of everything to git gud

>>15997824

>>15997220

KCD's combat would be perfect in a multiplayer game but only if they changed it around a bit, remove the lock on and it'd be great. But don't have weapons with higher damage outputs ranging from 14-100. Just have it like chivalry except this time your fucking armor actually means something and you won't die from two hits either by a twig or a tiny sword when you're in full metal plate armor.

>>15998841

seconding this, vermintide is amazing in that regard

As said, KCD would be good without the auto lock-on.

I have yet to try Vermintide 1+2, but I will soon.

When done right, I think first person melee combat is even better than 3rd person.

>>15997179

Generally it's terrible, Skyrim being a case in point.

However, there are games where it can be done well. The Berzerker Perk in Killing Floor 1 (not 2) has very simple fundamentals of a light attack and a strong attack which is expanded into a very deep melee system when extrapolated into different weapons, enemy types and situations. It's been the most rewarding and long standing favourite of mine.

For example, you have as perk abilities increased movement speed, damage resistance and melee damage output + attack speed. You can use these to avoid enemies and attacks that you otherwise would not be able to, and you can kite strong enemies like Fleshpounds and deal with them in a controlled manner without raging them that you otherwise couldn't.

In this video you can see the player uses his knowledge of the AI as well as correct spacing and movement to kill the fp without getting hit/minimizing damage, even with the weaker weapons like the machete.

Also, Dark Messiah because you have great environmental interactions.

>>15998841

>>15998957

How's that 'dedicated servers by march 2018' coming along, thirtybux?

>>15999002

Skyrims might actually have the worst combat of any game ever made.

>swing a sword the size of your dick

>takes a whole second and a half before you can swing again

>literally zero bow technique, just point and click with a york patty hold your breath button

>magic feels more like using a limp garden hose than actually shooting fire/ice/thunder. nice generic magic choices by the way

>>15998618

>Bows require less strength

absolutely wrong, now only did longbowmen have to be trained since they were children, bone warping and deformations caused by their massive back muscles was a very real problem.

Competitive certainly doesn't mean good. Look at what modern vidya is considered "competitive". If you consider any of them good then go back to reddit. Anything first player online will be swarmed by cawadoodie kiddies and idiot normalfags who loved every shitty modern fps shat out by kikes.

>>15998618

Except that bow practice required so much strength that it deformed archers' skeletons.

The only weapons made for women are those that don't require strength at all, like crossbows with mechanical draw assistance, poison and (in fantasy obviously) magic. Magic at least makes sense if it's Vancian style since women are supposed to have slightly better memories.

>>15997179

>>15999037

To be competitive, it needs to have lootboxes, microtransactions, and oversimplified mechanics so that gay furry niggers can gloat about being skilled whenever they cheese it.

>>15999014

Now that you mention it. The severs are down today. Error 1123 is the one that happens when their backend severs are down. Hopefully it will clear up by noon.

If their is one thing Fat Shark sucks at it's getting the fucking Netcode right.

>>15997762

Not the best example since the game's camera is controlled by the computer, but it might be able to work if it's something like Kingdom Come: Deliverance, where you can lock on. The largest disadvantage of this system is that it will be too disorientating rapidly switching from foe to foe.

>>15998443

>>15998446

There we go, and Jedi Academy already has a first person mode.

>>15998618

>>15998614

>>15998621

Hunting bows can be used with very little strength but not warbows, so devs probably saw that there were female huntresses throughout history and figured they would be best suited for bows. Women could use crossbows too but while they don't REQUIRE strength to draw you'll certainly want it because it would get extremely tiring during a siege or battle. The only military with women in it from history that I can think of were some nip women, they exclusively used spears.

>>15999184

How strange is it to play M&B in first person while doing melee? I do this and never had issues but I've heard everyone else only uses first person for archery.

Games being competitive is largely not something you can achieve just by aiming for it. Games that try to force it are usually the most insufferable, artificial experiences there are. Make a good game based around competition first, and then you can only see if the community follows. First person melee is a lot like first person platformers, they're genres that rely more on knowing where you are than having pinpoint accuracy and so you're going to have to work to patch up holes that wouldn't be there if you weren't trying to cram it into first person. It's entirely possible, but why start a project after intentionally giving yourself hurdles?

>>15997179

Probably Mordhau, other than that Kingdom Come maybe? But that's probably too slow for the (((competitive))) community that's always high on speed.

>>16000681

Also, Mount & Blade in first person is generally fine, the only time it becomes a problem is when you are facing hordes of enemies, you'll need the situational awareness to see what everyone is doing.

>>15999148

It's Tuesday and Vermintide uses Steam.

>>16000837

Yeah I do get that feeling sometimes but I'd rather just crank up the FOV a little more but unfortunately it's hardcoded in the engine.

>>16001398

>>16000833

Press minus on numeric keyboard, the camera will move backwards a bit (in third person mode, tried in Warband).

>>15998841

>Singleplayer is bad

>Have to rely on other people

No thanks

>>15998471

Playing melee fighters in vr showed me something that I didn't think of before - knowing where your sword is while it's off screen. First person melee games have to always have the blade in view so you know where it is. When it's actually in your hands you can low guard and high guard without having to see it but know where it is. Same with third person you can see it raised above your character's head. Without having to have it always in front of the character's face every so often to know where it is, you can do a lot more cool shit. Also swinging where you're not directly looking is nice but not practical in a first person game.

>>15998841

you sound like a shill but I do sorta agree. some melee combat (the inquisitor) feels like shit. some melee combat (the 2h hammers) feel huge and slow and like they're the end of the goddamn world for whoever's on the other side

>>15998841

>great melee system

>smash lmb until everything is dead

ok

>>16001446

Yeah it only works in third person which my autism prevents me from enjoying.

>>15998450

It's amazing. It basically avoids every failure of other games melee combat in first person by not being fucking retarded and realizing that melee barely works in first person. It's simple, there's only a few things to track but you have to track them all to be effective in combat, understand how each weapon and class works and even a 1 on 1 encounter can have you juggling a dozen possibilities. It's not a game about twirling your mouse like a retard or double tapping (this does not ever work on keyboard), or damage sponging away, it's about inertia, physics, surprises and for that reason it blows the fuck out of every first person melee combat game that pretends to be deep or pretends to do it "right." None of that shit does it right. Above all PVK2 is fun, even if you get your ass kicked all the sudden the knight that chopped your head off while proclaiming you're a pansy just got blown 40 feet into the air by a pirates keg and landed in a lava pit. There's more skill involved in it than any of the gay shit like chivalry will ever have, and it'll be infinitely more fun for all eternity.

>>15998841

>vermintide

Your faggotry, limitless.