/v/ - Video Games

It was shit when Zelda did it too, but the main reason people were so pissed about Sonic Unleashed is because the regular Sonic levels were so good. The game was practically telling you to stop having fun in the werehog bits.

Because Sonic Unleashed was announced right after the reputation of the franchise was ruined by Sonic 06.

Haven't played that game, but weren't the werehog controls really clunky and the sections with it slowed down the gameplay? From what I've heard, it wasn't that the gimmick itself was a bad, as much as the fact that it was handled incredibly poorly.

I don't remember anyone calling any of those amazing. Are you just making shit up to support your faggotry?

>>15805907

>>Link transforms into a wolf when he travels to a different dimension

Weren't those considered the most tedious sections of the game?

>>Mario can possess enemies by throwing them his hat

And, everyone saw how much potential was lost within 5 minutes of playing the game.

>>Little robot cleaner teams up with toys then travels back in time with the help of aliens to solve some family's insane bullshit

Is this Chibi-Robo?

>>Sonic transforms into a wolf when it's night

Which were also the most grueling sections of the game, that it was so barebones with little fleshed out, and that it made up more than half of the title.

>>15805933

The werehog levels go on at least 2 to 3 times as long as the regular stages and they're all boring crap.

See, you would be right if the Werehog wasn’t the most shoehorned, tedious sections of the game with subpar beat em’ up controls. Granted, Wolf Link was the worst part of Twilight Princess, so you have some truth to your statment.

>>15805926

>>15805933

>>15805944

People were shiting on Sonic for the wolf thing before the game got released. A lot of people were making fun of the game for the wolf concept, not because it was boring to play through. It's pretty much Sonic trying the stupid 3rd person combat brawler just like Crash or Pac-Man tried, and we know how shitty that is.

>>15805941

Yes it is, it's a great game.

The hate for the wolf levels from Zelda is almost nothing compared to the hate for the wolf in Sonic.

>>15805944

>>15805926

Yeah these are valid problems too. The Werehog levels could've been good in theory if they weren't so tedious and slow.

>>15805907

<What the fuck is this bullshit?

>Sonic is a game about going fast

>I KNOW LET'S MAKE IT INTO A GOD OF WAR CLONE

stories in video games was a mistake.

Wolf link is cool because he gets mistreated by Midna. Werewolf sonic sucks because he gets mistreated by the players and game design.

>>15805907

What people want in a sonic game is a lot smaller in scope than mario and zelda game. All a zelda needs an elf boy, a medevilish setting, a sword, gadgets, dungeons, exploration and heart pieces. Maybe even less than that with the success of BotW. 3D Mario just needs mario, jumping, and things to collect. Sonic needs sonic, jumping, and momentum physics. You can't really branch out beyond that because that's how he was originally marketed as a fast platformer and the audience expects sonic to be that.

Had they cut the length of the werehog stages in half, replaced the werehog with Knuckles and called the game 'Sonic & Knuckles 2', people would probably have been much more forgiving.

Instead they got Sonic Unleashed, which arrived right after Sonic 06 which tanked the series' reputation. Sonic Team promised to go back to the drawing board and fix things but they fucked up again.

>>15806002

post some wolf link getting his dick bullied by best imp

>>15805907

The execution was bad from what I hear.

As in, the gameplay of the "were-hog" sections was not fun.

I'd long since given up on new Sonic titles by that time anyhow.

I think Sonic Heroes was the last one I bought.

Interestingly, "Were-Hog" technically means "Man-Hog", as it's the anthropic component of the "Were-wolf"

>>15806090

overhaul is shit

>>15806101

That's not what I was talking about.

>>15806103

What is it then? Does it fix melee?

>>15805907

To be fair in regards to Zelda, going to alternate worlds which change your form is a staple, with Link to the Past having you turn into a rabbit in The Dark World, and Ocarina of Time have you turn into an adult when you travel to what is essentially a post-apocalyptic future. Then you also have Majora's Mask with other transformations but no alt-worlds, and the Oracle games with alt-worlds but not transformations. Twilight Princess was nothing new for that series.

As for Sonic, I understand why people don't want the alt-characters, and the werehog is essentially an alt-character, but they tried to say it actually was just a transformation to Sonic because people had been bitching so hard about Sonic's playable friends. I agree that Sonic always has the best gameplay, but I also don't mind the other characters. I could take them or leave them.

To this day, I'm still convinced that The Werehog was originally conceptualized as a 3D Ristar. Basic platforming with lots of climbing and stretchy arms. But then they probably got scared of selling Ristar on its own so they merged it with the next Sonic game. Then they got scared of even using Ristar so they made his gameplay a transformation for Sonic, and his story became Chip, who like Ristar, is a cute little embodiment of a celestial body, only instead of a star, he's a planet.

Sonic Team is very reactionary and makes vague attempts to give what they think the fans want, but they do it badly. People forget that Shadow the Hedgehog was a thing because he won a poll and people were constantly begging for a Sonic shooter because shooters were popular at the time.

'06 tried to go "back to the roots" by eliminating most of the story from Sonic's section of the game, because people were complaining about Sonic having a complicated story where someone other than Eggman was the bad guy, so Sonic's story is literally about rescuing a princess, the simplest you can get, and Eggman is the only bad guy. All the autism was saved for the other two stories.

Sonic '06 bombed, so they threw the baby out with the bathwater and acted as if it was the entire formula that was bad, instead of the fact that the game was an alpha prototype. So Unleashed has a completely new gameplay, and instead of trying to translate the momentum-based platforming of the Genesis games into 3D, as had been done with the previous main 3D games, Sonic just shoots down hallways with a Boost Button that kills enemies just by running by them, because GOTTA GO FAST, because that's what the "fans" were asking for. They also tried to get rid of Sonic's "friends" by making the alternate playstyle technically still be Sonic.

Well that didn't work, so they got rid of that and brought back 2D Sonic, only 2D Sonic in Colors plays nothing like Genesis Sonic, with double jumps and everything. But it was enough for the casuals who, by now we can see, never even played the original games. Also, people still bitched about Unleashed having a story, even though it's much less complex and much lighter in tone than previous games (including the Genesis games), so Colors pretty much doesn't have a story, and the same goes for the games after it.

At least they refined the 2D sections with Generations, where Classic Sonic is a bit closer to actual classic Sonic. It's still a little off but whatever.

Lost World essentially plays like Colors 2, with added emphasis on trying to look like what casuals think the old games looked like. But they tweaked the gameplay just a little, so people hated it. I mean don't get me wrong, I didn't particularly like it either, but it was no worse than Colors.

So by now people are bitching about Modern Sonic enough and you're starting to get people sticking up for Adventure. So what do they do? They add a story and playable characters that aren't Sonic. Only instead of actually playing the old 3D games and understanding why people wanted these things, they just go by the Deviantart memeshit that people have been making fun of for the last 15 years and make that instead. So you end up with the most tryhard edgy story yet, which still somehow seems to have as little substance as all the "Modern Sonic" games. You also get a playable character, except instead of Tails or Knuckles or whoever, it's literally an OC. But at least the OC does play somewhat similarly to the main (Modern) Sonic, which to be fair is actually a thing people were asking for.

Sonic Team tries to give people what they want, but the people screaming the most are casuals who never actually liked the series, and the current retards at Sonic Team never actually liked the old games either.

>>15805956

sonic is the furry fandom and hes transforming into a werewolf, its really fuckin funny id lose my mind if people didnt make fun of that. but people would have come around to the idea if it were fun.

>>15806099

thats interesting, i was unaware.

The reason it's dumb is that the Night gameplay totally broke the flow of the game, and really, painfully, and obviously, been it's own campaign, with like knuckles or some shit.

>anthropomorphic animal transforms into a anthopomorphic combination of two different animals with the most retarded name imaginable

Sonic certainly doesn't get a fair shake from video game journalists, that i agree with. I mean, IGN gave Unleashed a lower score than 06. But to the werehog simply wasn't a good idea

>>15805926

Unleashed had good Sonic levels that were honestly fun.

People were on-board with werehog, until they played it.

Also, the wolf segments of Twilight Princess are generally considered weak.

>>15806291

>Lost World essentially plays like Colors 2, with added emphasis on trying to look like what casuals think the old games looked like

Lost World was a very obvious attempt at a "Sonic Galaxy"

>>15805907

Did you really make a thread to cry about people shitposting about a shit sonic game? Are you 12 years old?

>>15806782

Yes, but those elements are basically added on top of Colors 2. They're what jump out as an obvious thing at first glance, but the game still feels very much like Colors overall.

>>15806640

Boost style is fun. Unfortunately the Sonic fanbase is now split three ways, if not more, and you can't please all of those people at once. You can either please the classic Sonic purists, the Adventure fans, or the boost fans. You just have to pick one and try to do it well.

i want wolf link to dom me owo

Forces fucked up by trying to be Adventure 3, and Generations 2 at the same time, thereby pleasing none of the people who wanted either of those things. Sonic Mania got almost universal praise. Hmm,

>>15806803

I'll take Classic and/or Adventure. Fuck Boost. Although at this point I'd be okay with a game that does all three. I was excited hearing there would be a third character in Forces, thinking it might be Adventure style gameplay. Could be a character other than Sonic, I don't care, but I liked the gameplay. Have Shadow play like that or something.

>>15806818

But the point is they keep fucking up by making a game that does all three- every part of your fanbase is only going to enjoy one third of the game, and from their perspective it looks like they're wading through a sea of shit to get to the good parts.

They'd do a lot better if they just released games which did one thing and did it right. There really shouldn't be such a thing as a 'flagship' sonic game which tries to do everything every x years.

Fuck boost.

Also fuck lanes.

>>15806818

Boost is fun for what it is. You just have to get over the mindset that Sonic gameplay has to be strongly influenced by the Megadrive games. I'd love a 3D Sonic that really goes back to the drawing board, and tries to properly translate what made 2D Sonic great into 3D, but I'll also just take any game that's enjoyable.

>>15806834

They don't do three, though. Adventure has never been done in combination with either of the other two. And when they do the other two well, the game does well. People like Generations. What people dislike is forms aside from those three, like the Werehog. I agree that you won't please everybody, like I won't enjoy the Boost gameplay as much. But I'll understand if it's included, and I can tolerate it if it gets me Classic and Adventure in the same game.

That said, with the success of Mania, I'm no longer interested in seeing Classic put in the same game as Modern. The 3D games should just be 3D and Classic Sonic should be relegated to sequels to Mania.

>>15806844

Yeah I still like Modern Sonic enough to beat the games. I'd even say Unleashed is one of my favorites in the series simply due to polish and amount of content. It's good at what it sets out to do. I don't love what it sets out to do as much as what '06 set out to do, but then '06 failed terribly at what it set out to do, so that became a moot point.

The main thing is just make a fucking good game. But still, I'd like a good Adventure style game again.

>>15805907

See >>15805990 and shut the fuck up, faggot. You need to fuck off just for defending that shit without knowing a fucking thing about it.

wow its like different people have different opinions

op have you considered they're might be multiple people having these viewpoints

>>15806816

Sonic 2006 tried to be Adventure 3.

Did you bother to play the game after Sonic transforms? While the other games are still fun, Sonic Unleashed becomes slow, shit and lame.

>and everyone claps

'cept they didn't

>>15805907

You're trying so hard is not even funny. So how about you check my digits?

>>15805907

Wanna know what the difference between those things is? Execution.

>>15805907

I'm pretty sure it's because every game blogger collectively decided to hate Sonic because they suck at it, and they tried to pass it off like the game mechanics were at fault. Thus every other stupid faggot poster parroted the bloggers and the Sonic is bad meme was born.

>This far in and still no Midna porn

Fucking GAY

>>15811843

Midna (cuntboy ) is gayer

>game series which gets decent titles that follow the themes that the series is known for

>people are open to the idea of the series doing something different from time to time

>game series which is starves of decent titles that follow the themes that the series is known for

>people are hostile to the idea of the series doing something different, because where the fuck, are the titles that do what got them interested in the first place?

This isn't difficult to understand.

>>15812047

post more

>>15806834

>But the point is they keep fucking up by making a game that does all three- every part of your fanbase is only going to enjoy one third of the game, and from their perspective it looks like they're wading through a sea of shit to get to the good parts.

>They'd do a lot better if they just released games which did one thing and did it right.

The only problem with that is that there still isn't a grounded "perspective" on the representative gameplay.

Okay, first off, with the 2D games, you have 4 "base" games (STH, S2, 3&K, CD), one spin-off (Chatoix) several Game Gear games, the GBA games, the DS games, the PSP games, as well as 4 and Mania.

Now all those games play drastically different. Even if you're just going to go off of the "main four", STH is focused on skill, S2 is experimentation, 3&K bounces you to all corners of the levels, and CD is a treasure hunt (If you want the good ending, otherwise it is a mix of all three). Which of those do you actually focus when refining concepts?

With "3D Sonic", then you have 3D Blast, Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow, and Sonic '06''.

First off, 3D Blast is fun from what I've played of it, so I don't exactly get why it receives so much hate. To move, SA2 is a bit looser than SA1, although it has better gameplay (And intoduced grinding). Heroes and Shadow have the best level designs (Heroes has the best grinding), but they are all put down by their gimmicks (Team play and guns). And, considering how I have yet to play a lick of Sonic 06, aside from the Generations'' mod, I have nothing to say on that.

With the "Boost" games, then you have Unleashed, & the Secret Rings, & The Black Knight, Colors, Generations, Lost World, and Forces.

First off, the one thing that sucks about all these games is the transition to 2D all throughout the levels (Which Lost World is the only game to not do that, which is a bit "on the nose" to say). Second, I've only played four of these seven games, and the only one to have the "best" gameplay was, ironically, the one to give Sonic a weapon (& The Black Knight) because it require a bit more skill.

Was the DS rpg Sonic any good? I never got a chance to try it.

>>15805907

>Sonic turning into a wolf

>appealing in any way

Nah, it's shit. You see, Sonic already has a transformation, it's called Super Sonic, and it's better than anything else you're going to come up with. Also, why would a hedgehog need to transform into a wolf? It makes no damn sense, just give Sonic a sword or something and most people will be fine with it. He already has sneakers and everyone's fine with that.

>>15820908

>link isn't a furry

*cough*twilight princess*cough*

would you fuckles Knuckles?

>>15805907

Twilight Princess's wolf levels didn't control like shit, unlike Sonic Unleashed's levels. They were still boring, but at least I could play them.

No gender bender power

Bigots

Reeeeeeeee

>>15820985

People hunted down Dracula for a reason fag.

>>15821045

>People hunted down Dracula for a reason fag.

If that was true then we wouldnt have to deal with shitty werewolves in castlevania games because the furry genocide would have killed them all.

>>15821049

No one ever said genocides are successful.

>>15805907

I haven't played a Sonic game since the genesis days, but Unleashed evidently looks like ordering a nice meal and getting served half a plate of food and half of nails. No one ever asked for the wolf gameplay, but they would have possibly appreciated running around in classic levels with some wolf gimmick.

Also, drop the special snowflake mentality where only you can see the obvious in a trite discussion everyone already buried.

>>15820962

>>15820985

Furry is an alias for sodomy, it doesn't actually matter if you're dressed as a wolf or a fish. Imagine a bunch of pedos cranking up the volume of some Disney cartoon while they assfuck you: that's furdom.

>>15821524

>forgot the greentext

>forgot the sage

nevermind, I'm a massive faggot, please rape my face

>>15821534

Well, depictions of Asriel generally tend to have the exact levels of smug I need at any given time, plus you get some more rare forms of smug like smug disappointment that you can't find in much else.

polite sage for offtopic

>what is presentation

>what is using a gimmick correctly

Also I'd say that those last two are kinda more interesting than just a werewolf.

Twilight Princess was an exceptionally shit game.

>>15822791

>why do nintendo soyboys that ate up second worst zelda and unirionically bought a switch not like sonic

Console wars are for cuckchan. Go back.

>>15823869

>liking currentyear nintendo isn't soy

>buying any console after gen 6

fuck off mark

>>15823887

>everyone who likes nintendo is mark

Nice try.

>>15822791

>second worst Zelda

I don’t remember Wind Waker having a wolf.

>>15805907

Who are you quoting?

>>15805907

I dare you to actually play Unleashed.

>>15805907

YO STEP IT UP

>>15805907

1. Sonic didn't turn into a wolf, he turned into a "werehog" (a man-pig?)

2. The levels were long and tedious

3. While the battle music was catchy, it was monotonous in the levels.

>>15806803

Boost style is also ridiculously expensive to make because you have to build a fuckhuge map and the player just runs through the whole thing in 3 minutes.

>>15823964

>1. Sonic didn't turn into a wolf, he turned into a "werehog" (a man-pig?)

I.e. a furryworlf.

Sonic was never good.

>>15829410

Shit taste.

Your a fucking nigger

>>15821527

It's not rape if you ask for it you fucking slut

>>15805907

Sonic transforming into a wolf is retarded because he is already an animal. It's fucking misplaced. And even the others spin-offs are played poorly, like the medieval game.

>>15805907

anon…

as much as i love sonic…

the dialog in that game made me double down out of cringe

and the werewolf gameplay was shit. i could have tolerated it if it didn't try to rip of god of war so much

>>15805926

The complaints probably would have been much less severe, if Sega had realized they could have simply picked one of the several characters who fight with their fists. Instead of making sonic into a werewolf of all things.

>make a rail shooter segment

>its just a long QTE

>>15829410

(You)

>>15805907

Because it was super edgy and Sonic is already an animal. All those scenes like Sonic rescuing Elise or the President looking at a picture of Sonic and Shadow on his desk would look a lot less dumb if they weren't fucking hedgehogs.

>>15840599

No, Sonic must be the only playable character.

>>15820758

It was made by Bioware's handheld division that they scrapped after they finished the game. Does that answer your question?

>>15847788

How is that supposed to be bait though, avatar friend?

>>15850036

More likely he just forgot to turn the flag off.

>>15840599

The reason Sonic transforms is because by this point, people had been complaining for years about alternate playable characters in Sonic games. They tried to get around this by making the alternate gameplay style in Unleashed technically still be Sonic, completely missing the point. That said, if it was another character, people still would have complained. Hating on Sonic was a meme before 2007, though it might have ramped up after that.

>Thread defending the hot garbage that was sonic unleashed

>The argument is "W-well, other games did transformations too…"

THE GAME WAS FUCKING AWFUL YOU FUCKING RETARD

It had nothing to do with the concept, it was implemented in the worst way possible.

>fast platforming game becomes a super laggy GoW clone with levels that last 5:1 of the fun parts of the game

>What's the issue

OP is a retarded faggot

>>15805907

It was unnecessary. Sonic defining trait was his speed, and Knuckles was introduced to be the muscle. Trying to make Sonic into the muscle was retarded.

Not to mention, Sonic is already an animal. Becoming a were-animal when you already are one is way past the point of stupidity.

3D sonic was never good. Adventurefags can eat it

>>15865139

Anon, you're completely ignoring the games in which Knuckles the POWER character, as opposed to the SPEED and FLYING characters

>but both of these styles are done reasonably well, for what they are

The werehog style is done reasonably well, but still isn't interesting. The only really fun Werehog levels are the boss battles, while the rest of the night stages are inoffensive, but still just boring.

>>15805907

Because the first two at least didn't remove the core gameplay of their characters. Sonic's werehog bits don't work because it slows down the gameplay when Sonic's whole point is going fast.

>>15865310

>Anon, you're completely ignoring the games in which Knuckles the POWER character, as opposed to the SPEED and FLYING characters

That's only one game. But yes, I did forget Heroes. Good point.

>The only really fun Werehog levels are the boss battles, while the rest of the night stages are inoffensive, but still just boring.

Yeah, this is basically how I feel about the entire game. It's okay, but not super memorable or anything. It's helped by the presentation. The werehog levels look and sound great, they have a great style to them, as do the daytime stages in a different way. Too bad the gameplay for both is very mediocre. I think Modern Sonic gameplay is also mediocre in all the sequels, too, so maybe that's why I'm not as mad as some others that in this game he's only half the game. Colors is all Modern Sonic but frankly I'd say he's even worse than in Unleashed so I don't give a shit. Generations is an improvement on Unleashed but is super short. Lost World is basically the same type of deal as Colors, with the controls tweaked a tiny bit but not in any way that actually makes the game much better. No, the round levels don't change the gameplay much. Forces has more content than Generations but lacks a bit in level design and stuff. Modern Sonic in general is very mediocre.