3194d9 No.15638843
Post autistic contraptions, layouts, apiaries etc.
RIPIP steel axe
https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-266
e6a0b0 No.15639064
>But now, when we are finishing the game
Bunch of fucking bullshit if I've ever heard any.
9e4e58 No.15639305
>people might be too retarded to figure out how to use a pickaxe, so we are removing it
>those people will be smart enough to figure out factory optimization and trains though!
bad591 No.15639426
>>15638843
>In the ancient versions of Factorio, the furnace mechanics were much more complicated. The furnace had to "warm up" before being operational, and if it wasn't used, the temperature went down again. This sounded like a nice mechanic, but it was soon discovered, that it adds little value in the scale of the factory, and it just bloats the games rules, so these complex mechanics have been removed from the the game for a very long time already.
that actually sounds pretty cool
>removing pickaxe
>removing efficiency
>removing mining hardness and mining power in favor of general mining speed and modifier
>reduce the number of damage types
>assembling machine ingredient limit removed
is this a fucking joke?
this sounds like it nueters angelbobs
they milked all they early access money they could and now they are attempting to dumb the game down for casuals to get more money
d764fa No.15639475
>We noticed that players, when they start with Factorio, they often try to mine by taking the pickaxe into the cursor and doing the mining (as they might be used to doing from Minecraft or other similar games).
No, naughty Factorio, don't take the playtesterpill.
14cea6 No.15639479
>So the change for 0.17 is that we completely removed mining tools from the game
That's disappointing. If anything, I thought they might be able to improve them. For example, against enemies there's a subtle progression:
>Use shotgun and/or grenades to clear nests, but this quickly falls off
>Get car for mobility
>Car is unable to beat up medium worm clusters safely
>Get tank to run shit over
>Eventually it can't keep up, but by this time modular armor makes you a living god
So I thought, manually doing something in this automation game should be stronger, right? (crafting is simpler, for example) So then, why not have upgraded/modular mining tools that dig faster than a drill (the downside being you have to stand there instead of building). Or perhaps a harvester vehicle that could run over trees and automatically collect them, or a mobile fast miner/smelter tank thing?
bad591 No.15639561
>>15639479
that's all additional complication and factorio apparantly is no longer about complex mechanics it's about simplifying the game as much as possible. they'll remove belt upgrades next, hell why not remove all of the ore types that's just complication and only have 1 resource type, don't need different types of plates either, 1 ore, 1 plate, let's just dumb down all these recipes to resource points and bypass plates all together. then maybe you can buy a booster to get more points for $1.99
bad591 No.15639573
factorio is the one game i've recommended people to buy at some point after they pirate it anyway but i'm about to stop doing that.
14cea6 No.15639604
>>15639561
God I hate posting on forums, look at how I awkward it is, I can't fucking greentext or use impolite language. Watch me still get a warning for disagreeing with them
bad591 No.15639607
reddit naturally loves this dumbing down of the game.
here's the 1 badgoy post which was downvoted and relegated to being hidden behind a clickwall at the bottom.
dev response is also a nice " :P" fuck you
14cea6 No.15639615
>>15639607
>completely removed mining tools from the game
>TAKE THAT, modders!
Wow.
bad591 No.15639622
>>15639604
>Why should new players have such an adverse affect on the mechanical depth and gameplay?
because you already spent your money and they aren't getting any more from you
14cea6 No.15639647
>>15639622
I know anon, I fucking know. I really wanted to tell them exactly what would happen:
>Want new players
>Dilute the game quality and piss off the veteran players that recommend it to everyone
>Come up with bad idea
>Listen to dumbshit faggot on the forum with 10,000 daily posts, all bootlicking the devs, no idea what he's talking about
>Mass bannings, drama all around
>At some point gender politics get involved
>Game is blacklisted by /v/
>Next 2-3 games the company makes are dead on arrival, company folds
bad591 No.15639690
>>15639647
this is once again why nobody should ever give money to early access, if money is going to be given. i thought factorio was the exception, but it clearly is not. if they are pulling this shit now who knows what garbage is already coming down the pipe in an effort to squeeze the last dollar out of this game before it's even officially released.
hopefully the angel and bob's mod autists will put up some kind of resistance, it would be great if they just flat out refused to update and told them to go fuck themselves, and/or yanked their mods completely off the mod page. those mods are the real end-game once you know what's going on with vanilla, the only other end-game is seeing how many rockets you can launch per minute at a tolerable UPS before you quit.
I can't even switch back to vanilla after I've played with these.
353cf6 No.15639701
>all these barely used mechanics being removed
I know you're playing factorio but calm your fucking autism. The only "change" here is the lazy bastard achievement no longer being meaningful.
bad591 No.15639726
>>15639701
>no assembler progression
>no furnace progression
>all ores are the same with different colors
>efficiency differences thrown out the window
>all differences of any kind will now be simple % boosters
>no math required
>mod capabilities being removed
ya this is a great ride to be on
14cea6 No.15639734
>>15639726
>>mod capabilities being removed
This is perhaps the biggest issue.
3194d9 No.15639741
>>15639690
>this is once again why nobody should ever give money to early access
As the recent medieval 2 retardation shows, it's not limited to early access games.
8e3f15 No.15639750
>>15639701
>removing features is fine
>calm your autism
635ba1 No.15639777
Man am I glad that I wasn't able to get into this game.
353cf6 No.15639778
>>15639726
>no assembler progression
Because assemblers being faster is not progression?
>no furnace progression
Because furnaces being faster or not needing fuel is not progression?
>all ores are the same with different colors
Did you ever manage to construct a factory that had a shortage of stone?
>efficiency differences thrown out the window
What efficiency differences? There fucking weren't any.
>all differences of any kind will now be simple % boosters
They already were.
>no math required
You still need math for your autistic perfect ratios. Or just steal a blueprint from someone like you always do.
>mod capabilities being removed
I haven't played the game with mods, and I'm sure there's a ton of mods that have a massive autistic array of ores, drills and mining tools that use these capabilities.
But that doesn't mean the base game itself is getting worse, it means that it's modding support is getting worse. Complain about that instead of knee-jerk reacting to all these bloat mechanics being culled.
a5b76f No.15639790
>>15639778
>Because assemblers being faster is not progression?
>instantly have the best assembler
>Because furnaces being faster or not needing fuel is not progression?
>instantly have the best furnace
>ore being the same
are you retarded?
"I think all ore in minecraft or literally any other mining game should all be the same because did you ever have a factory that had a shortage of stone?"
353cf6 No.15639800
>>15639790
>instantly have the best assembler
Assembling machine 1 is nowhere near as fast as assembling machine 3.
>instantly have the best furnace
Stone furnace isn't as fast as steel furnace, and can't use electricity like electric furnace.
>are you retarded?
Are you? Iron and copper already took the same amount of time to mine. The only change is that stone is now mined at the same rate.
3194d9 No.15639806
>>15639778
>r not needing fuel is not progression?
It really isn't. TBH faster furnaces that needed fuel would be progression, in the sense that there'd be more complexity but also more benefit.
353cf6 No.15639836
>>15639806
Okay, how about being able to use modules and beacons? Is that progression enough for you then?
8e3f15 No.15639841
>>15639800
>still arguing in favor of simplification and removing features
353cf6 No.15639871
>>15639841
Why don't you tell me about the amazing designs you meticulously crafted around mining hardness then?
Explain to me how this is a feature, and not bloat that adds unnecessary complexity to the game.
14cea6 No.15639896
>>15639871
It's the dev's fault for introducing it as a mechanic and then doing nothing with it. By removing it, you're removing potential mods that could.
It's like fucking Minecraft all over again, how Notch added half-baked ideas like Alchemy and shit
353cf6 No.15639915
>>15639896
Then your complaint isn't that pointless mechanics are being removed, but that compatibility with mods is being broken.
If you want to complain about that, then that's perfectly fine. But don't pretend that the base game itself is going through massive dumbing down changes when LITERALLY FUCKING NOTHING CHANGES.
Instead of being a retarded autist that goes onto the factorio to complain about changes that don't even change the game, why don't you write a post there complaining how mod compatibility breaks and the devs should do their fucking job maintaining it? You're throwing your autism in the completely opposite direction here.
14cea6 No.15639945
>>15639915
Removing mod potential is still affecting the game though
14cea6 No.15639947
>>15639945
>>15639915
And more specifically, because they are willing to shit on mod makers, it shows they don't care about the community, and have basically flagged themselves as preparing to shit on other mechanics further down the road
353cf6 No.15639961
>>15639947
>>15639945
Why are you not complaining about mod support specifically then?
Why do you write a big fucking rant on the factorio forums yet COMPLETELY FAIL TO MENTION that this is primarily a bad changes due to breaking mods?
All I'm asking you is to not misrepresent your argument.
bad591 No.15639966
>>15639947
>because they are willing to shit on mod makers
this is what pisses me off the most
>>15639607
>Rip pixaxe, you will be missed…
>And modded back in in a few hours
<(faggotdev):No it won't :P
<(faggotdev):So the change for 0.17 is that we completely removed mining tools from the game
:P
8e3f15 No.15639974
>>15639915
>LITERALLY NOTHING CHANGES
>calls people autist like an insult
Lurk 2 years before posting.
3194d9 No.15639995
>>15639836
NO GOD DAMNIT I WANT A MARK THREE FURNACE THAT USES MODULES, NEEDS SOLID FUEL AND LIGHT OIL, PRODUCES BYPRODUCTS THAT MUST BE REPROCESSED AND NEEDS A SCREENFUL OF CIRCUITS TO MONITOR AND CONTROL IT LEST IT OVERHEAT AND EXPLODE. I'M SO ANGRY I JUST MURDERED FORTY THOUSAND TREES.
I actually don't mind them scrapping the ingredient limit on the assemblers since at least in theory, that makes grey ones a little more viable past the first ten minutes for low throughput stuff. They're still not going to get used much though tbh because they don't have anything to offset their slowness (like more module space, ability to run off coal, etc.)
353cf6 No.15640042
>>15639995
>I actually don't mind them scrapping the ingredient limit on the assemblers since at least in theory, that makes grey ones a little more viable past the first ten minutes for low throughput stuff. They're still not going to get used much though tbh because they don't have anything to offset their slowness (like more module space, ability to run off coal, etc.)
It'll also allow you to have an automated green science production just with automation 1 research.
14cea6 No.15640082
>>15639995
I usually upgrade everything to Assembler 2 since they're faster and pollute less, and are fairly easy to get fast
bad591 No.15640091
>>15640042
>just with automation 1 research
there won't be any automation 1 research, it will just be automation research, because there won't be any grey, blue, or green assemblers, there will just be 1 assembler.
b0a499 No.15640125
>>15639690
>Rockets per minute bullshit
Only attention whore twitch streamers (with around 200 views max) and one or two autists give a shit about doing something so retarded.
bad591 No.15640290
here's Bob himself from Bob's mods bitching about it. also it would appear that Bob is a furry
b0a499 No.15640313
>>15640290
Why are such a huge chunk of decent developers/modders furries?
14cea6 No.15640320
14cea6 No.15640327
>>15640290
Also why's he secretive about the fuel values specifically?
bad591 No.15640329
>>15640327
>but I can see them in the 0.17 source access on github
it's because he probably had to sign an NDA when factorio dev's gave this one modder access to the source code for factorio, which is hosted on github i guess, closed obviously
91a475 No.15640676
I'm okay with this as long as all of this shit stays as modding options. Given the general state of what's currently opened up for mods, I assume that's gonna be the case. Since these changes really don't change how Vanilla plays at all and I don't think there's any real risk of this leading to a slippery slope of everything going to hell, I'll take the risk of being called a shill and say you're all just massively overreacting.
d77cd3 No.15640847
d77cd3 No.15640849
>>15640676
>I'm okay with this as long as all of this shit stays as modding options
They refused to let it stay as modding options. See here: >>15639607
And here: >>15640290
d77cd3 No.15640852
>>15640676
In other words, lurk the fucking thread before you (1) and done, you dummy.
4c3381 No.15640874
Good. Let everything burn. Maybe autists will put that power into inventing games that arent hamfisted into being casual fag games.
734b07 No.15640903
>>15640091
Wait what? Where does it say this?
499f2a No.15641084
Never got past the point where I need trains. Trying to manage train schedules just isn't fun and I can't wrap my head around the makeshift solution that is LTN with it's fuckton of signals floating around for a station to pretend to work.
2dce67 No.15641376
>>15639604
>Watch me still get a warning for disagreeing with them
This actually happened to me with Dauntless, which looked promising (of course) but went to shit.
127eeb No.15641394
>>15639305
they removed it because its pointless. You get a mining machine in like the first 5 seconds of starting the game that mines automatically for you. You actually rarely use the pickaxe.
14cea6 No.15641435
>>15641394
But you still chop trees, and the pick affects the speed of that, as well as picking up buildings.
098852 No.15641437
I'm so glad i never need to update.
bad591 No.15641983
Here's this same snownigger dev that like to sit on reddit and suck up all the boot-licking, which there is far less of on the forums regarding this. Here he is being a smart ass but he's not joking.
<armor durability is now removed
<pistol should be removed
someone post that they should remove ammo based turrets too because it doesn't add anything to the game and your too lazy to surround the base with turrets AND an ammo belt, the mechanic is too complicated to attract dumb lemmings to factorio and dump money, you should just be able to get laser immediately and spam the base wall with it once and be done.
things that should also be completely removed from the game to accommodate new players
-different types of inserters (easy to build anyway)
-different types of belts (they all do the same job)
-the entire fluid system (its too complicated for new players)
-nuclear (WAY too complicated for new players)
-different ammo types (this should just be replaced with additional bonuses)
-different types of enemies (2 is too many)
-different types of spawners (why?)
-different power poles (replace with bonus for wire length to standard pole)
-construction bots (logistics bots should do both)
-rail signalling (trains should figure it out themselves, too difficult for new players)
-accumulators (always balanced with solar anyway and new players won't understand need to balance, have panels save power)
-terrain absorbing different amounts of pollution by type (there isn't even a tool tip showing it lol)
-different armor types (replace with grid and armor bonus to player armor)
-the armor grid system (this should be replaced with a simple menu unlocks with research to add different stuff, which you never have to replace when you die)
-loosing your inventory when you die (why? it's just an inconvenience)
bad591 No.15641991
oyvey ignore criticism dev it's just a few people being loud and trolling these changes are amazing the silent majority loves simplifying the game
14cea6 No.15641994
>>15641983
>Can still use it with mods
WELL WE CANT FUCKING USE OTHER SHIT WITH MODS ANYMORE SO WHY IS THAT A VALID EXCUSE YOU FAGGOT DEV
>>15641991
This is the most frustrating post yet
bad591 No.15642019
true reason #2 from the forums explaining that the dev's are too fucking lazy to design tool-tips now and explain the mechanics to the player so they will just remove them instead.
in reality what have the dev's really done in the past 6 months - 1 year? What did 0.16 bring over 0.15?
-performance improvements (which is noticeable)
-HD sprites
that's it.
the performance improvements were appreciated and great but that's all they have done in an entire year?
the dev's being outright lazy now and relying on modders which they are presently fucking over is a legitimate reason for these changes. the direction the devs should have been going this entire time is the angelbobs direction, but they got that work for free, why bother?
it's a sad state when the best hope that can be had is the devs just stop working on their fucking game before they change the engineer to a stronk negro woman to cater to new players.
cdb8bd No.15642052
>>15639741
You mean M2Total War? What did Cancerous Assembly do now?
bad591 No.15642056
>>15642052
didn't they retroactively add kangz and kangesses that clearly didn't belong? because niggers love these types of games and felt unrepresented
4c3381 No.15642067
>>15642056
When? I see review bombing but it looks like its due to rome 2, not the game itself.
cdb8bd No.15642068
>>15642056
No that's Rome 2.
bad591 No.15642786
broken english post speaks truth
174a47 No.15642799
>>15642786
>streamer
Who the fuck cares about them?
1fcc30 No.15642890
>>15640313
People who are smart/autistic and motivated enough to get these jobs aren't exactly the most social bunch, which gets them into escapism. Sometimes the escapism itself also helps them get motivated ("I want to get a raise so I can purchase that 2.5 thousand dollars commission").
Furry was really common back then thanks to Disney cartoons and whatnot, so that's the escapism chosen by most western autists that were kids during that era.
8c9f77 No.15643088
Makes me hope that 3D fucktorio knockoff is going to be any good
81f325 No.15643116
>>15639305
>no slots for mining tools anymore
rip chainsaws and drilling tools
aafb7a No.15643129
>>15638843
I generally agree with every change they make, but this is the first time I think they're making a mistake. It sounds like the faggot they hired to make a better GUI is behind this shit mentality that everyone has to understand everything no matter how retarded that person is.
The only thing I agree with in this FFF is damage types.
bad591 No.15643324
>>15643129
>It sounds like the faggot they hired to make a better GUI is behind this shit mentality that everyone has to understand everything no matter how retarded that person is.
>The only thing I agree with in this FFF is damage types.
you should make this post verbatim in their forum
2dce67 No.15643458
>>15642799 (checked)
They're an outlet for newfags who are too retarded to figure out everything for themselves but not so retarded that they can't get into the game.
b0a499 No.15643821
>>15643324
I already did but got banned for it
987dd0 No.15643907
>>15641435
Did you even read the entry, you retard? You start with the iron pick speed by default, and upon researching steel, automatically get steel pick speed.
They didn't remove the pickax, per se; they just removed the necessity to craft it. Which actually WAS pointless (especially as they had durability… when literally nothing else in the game has durability).
bad591 No.15643971
>>15643907
>they didn't remove a mechanic from the game because people are retarted they just removed a mechanic from the game because people are retarded
1fcc30 No.15643974
>>15643907
>when literally nothing else in the game has durability
No, but everything else in the game needs fuel or ammo. Durability was the fuel equivalent for pickaxes.
Making hand held mining machines that required fuel instead would be nice, but just outright removing them and making it a passive +stat upgrade you're handed at a certain point in the game just because a few retards that probably wouldn't be able to play the rest of the game anyway is just fucking retarded.
aafb7a No.15646641
>>15643907
>literally nothing else in the game has durability
>what are repair packs
>what is ammunition
Both of those are consumable things that you use as a player and must periodically restock on. Capsules and grenades are the same too.
f7889a No.15646658
it's like I'm watching the development of DCSS at 1.5x speed.
When are they actually going to add some real progression beyond "just more ways to achieve the same thing you're already doing except with less performance impact"? Why don't they just pull the pin and make another game?
bad591 No.15646746
>>15646658
>When are they actually going to add some real progression beyond "just more ways to achieve the same thing you're already doing except with less performance impact"?
never, why work when you can get work done for free with mods
a big reason for this dumbing down is they are too fucking lazy to come up with a decent tutorial / campaign. the campaign system is already there.
they had some pretty expansive and decent ideas for an end-game beyond launch a satellite for no real reason, but once they realize goyim were purchasing the game without creating any of that the significant gameplay type updates, they stopped happening, why bother? the money is already flowing.
they even upped the price from $20 to $30 to make up for the fact that sales were declining, because everyone who was going to buy factorio for its complexity already did along time ago, they have no reason to further cater to these buyers.
this is why early access is cancer.
81f325 No.15646794
>>15641983
>>15641991
>>15642019
>mfw I bought the game for 25,89€ yuropoor shekels because of muh mod access
inb4 I could have bought it for cheaper when I did it earlier
>read up more on this dumbing down changes
>were even some features get removed and not even make it possible to restore via mods
Fucking hell… I haven't bought a new game in years and I thought Factorio is the one that might deserve it, I guess I can only hope that the "backlash" is big enough that they reconsider this move and don't pull this shit, but is it even a guarantee it will stop it from them doing that? Speaking of features, the nuclear rocket effect looks like ass which is expensive as fug to build it, the vehicle buffs doesn't add much and they didn't even introduced more modularity to make it worth investing in one such as swapping turrets/weapons and there is like at least 3-5 thredas with several ideas to make those tanks/car more interesting. Also they didn't touched the aliens for ages not even half arsing ripping off features from the rampant mod.
>this is why early access is cancer.
If I weren't a bydlo IQ59 I would rather just develop my own open sores game instead tbh, or maybe modding one instead but I don't know of any that has gud base for muh tonk autism
2dce67 No.15647302
>>15646794
>If I weren't a bydlo IQ59 I would rather just develop my own open sores game instead tbh, or maybe modding one instead but I don't know of any that has gud base for muh tonk autism
Minetest. Be the faggot to make the automation and factory mod for minetest.
I've wanted to make lots of games but I always murder myself on scope creep and can't commit to anything small, so I never do anything.
4d9f5d No.15647347
Why is everyone shitting their pants over an update breaking mods?
Haven't the people who play the game heavily modded basically given up on the official devs for providing new content and improvements?
What's stopping everyone from just playing and making mods for 0.16 until the end of time?
1fcc30 No.15647386
>>15647347
>Why is everyone shitting their pants over an update breaking mods?
Read the thread retard.
This update marks the start of the casualization of the game and is pretty much the official notice there won't be any new content for the old playerbase.
3194d9 No.15651772
>using nuclear artilery causes desynchs
14cea6 No.15651777
>>15647302
When I got into Factorio, inserters kinda blew my mind. What does Buildcraft and such have that varies between this other than the 3rd dimension?
5c40d4 No.15651921
>>15651777
Minecraft mods are technically more interesting than Factorio, the crafting processes are very varied and there's a lot more kinds of materials that you need (pulverizing and mixing ores to create alloys for example) and liquids/gases are used more, and you sometimes get byproducts when you craft something. You need to insert things from different sides of the machine, there's machines of various sizes that are built from many blocks rather than just plopped down, farming and other production methods are often used for materials, there's different mods like magic mods that have their unique forms of crafting, redstone wiring is used more often and is generally more useful, there's various types of electricity that are generated in various kinds of ways, you have to actually manage power cables yourself and connect it to every machine…
The design of mining is a big limiting factor though. One of the key things about factorio is that you can set up mining outposts and logistics to automate ore production and delivery so the whole factory is automated and runs continuously, and expand your smelteries to deal with the increasing input. In minecraft your best equivalent is either a machine that creates ores from thin air, or drains all the ores from below it and you have to constantly move it. But then what? An inventory full of ore is A TON of ore, while in Factorio it would be unthinkable to carry it from the ore patch yourself. In fact it's not even that beneficial to automate mining since you can do it yourself fairly effectively. There's no reason for minecarts to exist as anything but a form of transport for players. You'd need a mod that completely overhauls how ore works and what it's value is, but then every other mod breaks because they aren't designed with that in mind.
Also, in order to make use of that automation for more than smelting ores or crafting a couple items every now and then just because it can't be crafted by hand (and can usually be moved manually from machine to another since you need so few of them). You need some esoteric mods that have super expensive items with many steps and an uncanny amount of items for each craft. But if you do that, you start to run into the problem that Minecraft isn't optimized for this, it'll lag to death and burn your CPU before it reaches anywhere resembling Factorio level of scale. There's all kinds of workarounds like super machines that produce stacks of items at once to reduce lag and transport pipes that transfer items instantly and use a "digital" storage, but even that doesn't work very well and it ruins the charm of it all in my opinion. And of course you'll need boring magic ore generator machines to get the input for it, or plant ore flowers which are boring because you can do it anywhere.
b923bb No.15654962
>>Time to make everyone vomit
My opinions as a newfag:
>>never used steel furnaces because they weren't an ingredient for other components and would immediately be replaced by eletric anyway
>>same with burner drills and burner inserters
>>never used solar panels except when building far away from the main factory
>>Never used trains because belts were less expensive for the short distance
>>never used speed mods because i built more machines instead
>>never used bots because they're too expensive
>>never upgraded belts for same reason
>>never knew energy efficiency was a thing until devs stated they'll take it away
>>still haven't beaten the game /*despite restarting several times and never spawning in enemies*/
2dce67 No.15655064
>>15654962
>Never used solar panels
Still don't need to. Once you get nuclear set up you can just send trains of steam to your remote locations, which also conveniently lets you also send any supplies they need and take back anything they produce without needing logistics network for the distance. If it's too short for trains, just pipe and pump the steam.
76e715 No.15655080
>>15655064
So nuclear power is worth the extreme cost of all the refiners, heat dispersers, generators, and reactor?
2dce67 No.15655379
>>15655080
Absolutely. For one it's incredibly expandable, and the more you have the more power you get for less fuel. (It heats up faster for the same fuel, and stays hot longer when the fuel goes out). One well built nuclear plant can power my end game rocket producing factory and all outposts provided I can get the steam to the location. Just have a simple circuit condition on your primary steam storage that triggers the insertion of one fuel to each reactor when it gets low. FURTHERMORE, you can reprocess the waste back into nuclear fuel so it all gets used. Don't be a (total) jew when making your factories.
ee6b7d No.15656960
>>15655064
>>15655379
>tanking steam
>not running power cables with your rail blueprints
Nigger, what the fuck are you doing. Steam is super super bad to transport on purpose. It's an intended mechanic that tanking steam is a bad idea.
3194d9 No.15656970
>>15655064
> If it's too short for trains, just pipe and pump the steam.
If it's that short just draw power lines.
>>15655080
If nothing else, it takes up about 1/40th of the space solar does.
2dce67 No.15656995
>>15656960
I do both, but one factory's gimmick was that I tanked steam everywhere I didn't feel like power cabling. Is putting it in barrels more efficient or the same? I mostly did this using liquid wagons with my oil outposts. One train of even four liquid wagons can bring 4 wagons of steam in and then leave with 4 wagons of oil.
436677 No.15657044
So what's the latest un-cucked version? I've currently got 0.15.13, what's the latest good version after that? I never thought this game would follow in the footsteps of DCSS.
Also is there a place I can pirate some of the mods? can't believe I have to type that sentence but here we are
3194d9 No.15657286
>>15657044
15 is good. 16 brings artillery IIRC.
81f325 No.15657298
3194d9 No.15657883
>>15657298
>>15657298
Yeah I remember. Wrecked my nuclear setup
b1a907 No.15657997
>>15651921
I've wanted to try some Factorio style Minecraft autism for a while. Could you recommend a modlist?
2dce67 No.15658136
>>15657997
Literally just Mekanism with your favorite flavor of FLAOT is amazing, but you could do Immersive Engineering (also with FLAOT) instead, as I've heard it's good and seen anons recommend it.
bad591 No.15660143
>>15657044
it's worth upgrading to 0.16, the UPS gains are massive. Belt-optimization came in 0.16, so it's less necessary to run everything underground belts, though they still are better with UPS.
we'll see what happens with 0.17 and what a shit show it's going to be.
ee6b7d No.15660644
For removal of pickaxes. Ask yourself the question "Is crafting pickaxes that break, fun?".
For the mining hardness changes. Ask yourself the question "Did I ever have any idea how many ore per second each miner could mine? What does 2 mining hardness mean?".
For the fuel boiler efficiency changes. Ask yourself the question "Do I like entering '*0.5' into every math equation I used that involved boilers?".
To me, all of these are fluff, padding, chaff, distractions, and not fun. I like building spaghetti autism and knowing how much ore comes out of each mine, how much energy I get out of fuel without throwing in more numbers, not crafting stacks of pickaxes every time I fuck up my autistic mess and decide to start over. I am indifferent to the assembler ingredient listing changes.
81f325 No.15660687
>>15660644
>For removal of pickaxes. Ask yourself the question "Is crafting pickaxes that break, fun?".
Hardly a issue, the repairkits need to be replaced too when it gets used a lot.
>For the fuel boiler efficiency changes. Ask yourself the question "Do I like entering '*0.5' into every math equation I used that involved boilers?".
I would write a small bydon script to handle it for me if I ever bother going to do more research for efficient boiler/steam engine setup. I wrote something similar for caliber related though so that I have some consistency when I add later larger/smaller tank grenades, I want to mod in a 10TP soon when I fixed the other ammo first
>For the mining hardness changes. Ask yourself the question "Did I ever have any idea how many ore per second each miner could mine? What does 2 mining hardness mean?".
See my above answer. To me the issue sounds more like that the developer didn't bothered adding additional mechanics were those equation will come into play that makes a difference, either by better fuel items, some special module types or a form of upgrade. For years the only method to get power was the steam engines and solar panels and nothing inbetween that allows for further modification (not in the sense of mods, in the sense of customized mechanical parts or whatever). Now when I think about it there is also no mechanic that involves different material types such as steel plates enhanced with some strong coke or other metallurgical shit I am not familiar with. My main gripe with their sudden change is that they don't even want it to be restorable by mods for people that like it hell or just a plain option button "Do you want more features or less features when starting a new game?" so that both their the audience community can be satisfied instead of "sacrificing" so to say one of them so that noobs have easier time playing it.
13a8a2 No.15660690
>>15660644
>Ask yourself the question "Is crafting pickaxes that break, fun?"
Fuck off kike, the real question is "is automating things to make your life more convenient fun?", and yes, automating consumables their delivery to you is fun. Getting a new tier of pickaxe to make deconstructing buildings faster is satisfying, researching invisible stat boosts is not. The only problem is that the idea isn't taken far enough, it should make your reach longer aswell and there should be more tiers.
You might as well remove armor from the game and replace it with stat/inventory upgrade research.
3194d9 No.15660694
>>15660644
>Ask yourself the question "Do I like entering '*0.5' into every math equation I used that involved boilers?".
There hasn't been any of those equations since 0.15 since it simplified the steam power system.
9db689 No.15660725
So basically fuck progression?
Jesus christ I'm going to pirate whatever version is just before this update and never update this shit again.
>>15660690
>You might as well remove armor from the game and replace it with stat/inventory upgrade research.
Basically what all this leads to is that there will be no reason to build anything other than science packs. Absolute trash decision. If anything there should be more tiers with increasingly more complex item chains to obtain them. Once you have a production chain set up, it should be able to be expanded and then added on to in order to get the next upgrade when that upgrade is researched. Then those upgraded components improve your efficiency once employed. Skipping that step means you just expand your setups and don't need to modify them as you progress through the tech tree.
37a2e7 No.15661014
>>15639726
>mod capabilities being removed
Into the trash it goes.
37a2e7 No.15661022
>>15639778
>Because assemblers being faster is not progression?
Assembly progression also controlled what you were capable of manufacturing, not just its speed.
I bet you've never even launched a rocket.
463608 No.15661033
>>15660895
>tfw nedroid's art turned to calarts shit
2dce67 No.15661274
>>15660725
I already don't produce much of anything except for science packs in vanilla. One factory I had split all iron and copper production into two belts. One for science packs that was long, and one really short one for other products like belts or inserters I would want every now and then. Sounds like I'll just stick with 0.16 because I like nuclear and artillery, though I kinda wish I could go back to the old small boilers.
499f2a No.15663428
>>15661022
Why not just give each intermediate item a tier and factories can only use items from said tier. So no, your level 1 factory can't make nuclear fuel anymore.
f8e0ff No.15664100
>>15660644
>Ask yourself the question "Is crafting pickaxes that break, fun?".
Is walking around fun? Just let players teleport everywhere. Requiring players to push a button once every 5 hours is somehow ruining the game and causing people to demand refunds?
>For the mining hardness changes. Ask yourself the question "Did I ever have any idea how many ore per second each miner could mine? What does 2 mining hardness mean?".
Mining Hardness means a 1.5 Mining machine can't mine a 1.75 ore, a 2 mining machine can barely mine it, a 3 can mine it easily. Does it really matter how much miners mine per second in vanilla? Does anyone actually calculate that rather than just cover a mining patch 100% with miners and feeding it in to the trains?
>For the fuel boiler efficiency changes. Ask yourself the question "Do I like entering '*0.5' into every math equation I used that involved boilers?".
It's almost like variables are there because they can change depending on the circumstances.
f8e0ff No.15664140
Doing a Seablock Marathon run. It's slow going, but alright. Power is a bitch, half my power generation gets eaten by my greenhouses that are for generating the wood that goes into my power. Not sure if they are actually better than algae farms, think I might have missed something in my calculations that showed they were a better return ratio. In any case I'm coasting around at about 10 MW. Wind is really unreliable though, during periods of long drought I can run low on power and get stuck in a negative feedback loop before I disconnect my production from my recursive power generation.
a9ca35 No.15664404
>>15664140
You know, factorio would be a fun base for a self-sufficiency simulation. Like on Mars were certain things have a very small supply and you have to substitute other shit. e.g. You'd have to melt ice and split it to keep yourself breathing, the hydrogen could be used as a fuel source since you already have it, and getting nitrogen and shit to farm crops (which would also need shelters but would generate oxygen from co2 you could get from the martian atmosphere) and so on and so on.
f8e0ff No.15664742
>>15664404
There are mods that add requirements for Food/O/H2O. Thing is it sort of becomes trivial immediately since you never have to scale up production.
a9ca35 No.15664774
>>15664742
Yeah I guess there's no good way to simulate colonists and breakdowns in factorio.
987dd0 No.15665988
>>15660690
You are a whiny little fuck with a major hardon for reductio ad absurdum.
>Getting a new tier of pickaxe to make deconstructing buildings faster is satisfying, researching invisible stat boosts is not
This is completely 100% your opinion, and not one shared by the creators of the game or the playtesters. Basically: nobody cares. I get that your salty about it, but it's not YOUR game, so you have no say in how it's made. Just leads us back to: nobody cares.
000000 No.15666029
>>15664742
It would be kinda nice to have to defend some kind of civilian settlement and provide for it. At least as a game mode.
I was always bored that you build all this shit for nothing. That's must be why I preferred RimWorld even though it lacks complexity.
de790a No.15666042
>>15665988
>TH-TH-THAT'S YOUR OPINION!!
>IT DOESN'T MATTER NOBODY CARES IF THEY REMOVE FEATURES
>STOP CRITICIZING THEIR DECISIONS
>IT'S THEIR GAME THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT
Nice white knighting. You forgot to mention that mods will fix it.
e24a4b No.15666484
>>15664100
Pickaxes never saw much use out of the first like 5 minutes and then you just sort of had them, it wasn't really a wall at any point.
>does anyone actually calculate
Yes, saves you a ton of backflow on your production lines if you run them better.
f8e0ff No.15666940
>>15666484
>Pickaxes never saw much use out of the first like 5 minutes and then you just sort of had them, it wasn't really a wall at any point.
Mechanics don't have to be a wall to add to the game.
>Yes, saves you a ton of backflow on your production lines if you run them better.
By putting down less miners? What's the point? You spend a few minutes calculating ore production rate in order to not put down 5 miners that you have to put down an hour later anyway? That's not saving anything relevant. Backflow isn't bad, it's there to tell you to smelt faster and to buffer for when miners run out.
Fact is that miners and furnaces are cheap enough that there is virtually no reason not to saturate entire patches and smelt with as many lines as needed.
e24a4b No.15667345
>>15666940
Having a 3 minute detour at the start of the game isn't a mechanic. That's like saying losing your powerups in a metroid game is a mechanic
cab4d1 No.15667470
>>15646746
This is the problem with extrinsic motivation - it eats away it intrinsic motivation until it's fully consumed.
This is why people should only be paid for doing things they HATE, and every passion should be done for free. Passionate people will keep being passionate as long as they're never rewarded for it, but the second they get one penny - boom, the death of their passion has already begun.
This is hard-wired into humans, and basically you're a fucking idiot. Has science gone too far? Click this link to find out more.
f8e0ff No.15668192
>>15667345
>Having a 3 minute detour at the start of the game isn't a mechanic. That's like saying losing your powerups in a metroid game is a mechanic
By that metric Burner Drills should be removed since they don't matter past the first 1% of the game and only exist to confuse the sub-65 IQ newbies buying Factorio now. Just start everyone with electric miners and steam engines.
Also isn't it a waste of time to have both boilers AND steam engines? Everyone just puts 2 engines next to every boiler. Might as well combine them because it's needlessly complex math to force players to figure out when they are trying to learn the game.
Also power poles a kind of boring and don't add much but constant needless clicks. Shouldn't everything just come with a power pole?
etc etc.
cab4d1 No.15668262
>>15668192
Why do we skip the loose rock collecting stage? How come we skip the stage where we carve a crude cast into a large chunk of granite and pour impure iron into it to make our first crude pickaxe head? Why do we skip the phase where we gather vines or sinew from dead biters to make lashings to hold the pickaxe head to its handle?
Is it because the low-IQ players wouldn't understand it?
aafb7a No.15668344
>>15668262
You know why don't we remove mining entirely? That's only used at the beginning and even there you can ignore it by moving the initial drill around and using wood as fuel. Someone might think it's literally Minecraft and get confused!
Weapons are also useless, what if someone crafts a machine gun and gets killed because they didn't realize you have to craft ammo separately? They would be really upset.
I think steam should be improved too, you should be able to put coal into steam engines to create energy. Think of how much simpler that would be! And water? You should be able to just put a pipe into the water, needing a pump just makes it pointlessly difficult to get water.
81f325 No.15668356
>>15668344
I think the nuclear power is redundant, what is the point of having another options to provide power if there is already a steam engine? People would just build even more steam engines to provide power for the base, so just use the nuclear fuel as a better fuel source for the steam engine and call it a day. Also solar panels should be replaced as a upgrade for the steam engines to streamline it even more.
1fcc30 No.15668366
>>15668356
>Also solar panels should be replaced as a upgrade for the steam engines to streamline it even more.
Don't forget to make it a passive upgrade that you automatically get when researching a certain tech.
Speaking of which, why not make all upgrades like this?
Upgrades are just so confusing.
81f325 No.15668390
>>15668366
I also have to add that calculating the research time is not very simple to measure it, what does the number "15", "30" and "60" even mean? There is just a progress bar that goes larger but asides from that nothing else, how would a newbie know how many scientist labs are sufficient so that researching a tech that has a time of 60? By the time the player would get it he will probably get bored of this time game thinking it is it just a advanced form of cookie clicker and quit it because it is not as simple as just pressing a button to get more labs. Does "60" mean he has to wait 60 days or hours even? The developer should come up with a better way that is much more newbie friendly so that he doesn't quit it out of frustration because he is not playing the game anymore but just waiting for a lame green bar to grow bigger.
e7981c No.15668413
>>15638843
>Assembly machine limit removal
Sure, why keep an incentive for further research?
>Pickaxes gone
>Damage types simplified
Why are they streamlining everything? It's not performance, so why do it? If you want to do something, add some new superbugs by the fringes of the map.
2dce67 No.15668445
>>15668390
Let's just cut to the chase here: Why do you even need to launch a rocket? How does that even help you? Why do they have to enforce what the victory conditions are, I should be able to play and win in my own way. Really, who's going to figure out anyway that you need to build a silo and THEN load parts (which are needlessly complex to manufacture anyway) into the silo to make a rocket- I should be able to just manufacture rockets in an assembler and then load that into a silo. Then, after you get all that done, you realize that there wasn't a satellite inside and all that work was for NOTHING! Satellites don't even do anything anyway and I think they should be removed since it's just an extra bloaty process you have to deal with. Geez, what are they trying to do, scare away new players?
3194d9 No.15668458
>>15668413
>Sure, why keep an incentive for further research?
If anything they could have inverted the module capacity so that grey ones would have 4 slots and yellow ones would have 0, leading to more tradeoffs in builds, as opposed to using yellow everywhere.
e7981c No.15668468
>>15668458
I think that'd be a bad idea. It would be a headache to think things through. Better to keep the current system of "this is better than that".
f8e0ff No.15668665
>>15668262
You can do that with current mods, Xander mod in particular makes an extremely extensive primitive tech stage.
81f325 No.15668681
>>15668445
You are right man and it shows the game is clearly in alpha stage, how much of a hack of a developer to you have to be to not even have a proper end goal by now? Building a large space rocket that requires the entire GDP of a small nation and all you get for putting a satellite is even more boring grinding that needs even more resources and its benefit will get smaller the more you research it, wow 10% additional laser damage bonus for the low cost of having to launch another rocket! Instead of having a cool cinema were the player gets a ticket back to home so that he can finally see his dog after years of absence, being lost in space and countless sleepless night being afraid that you will never come back home you get this shit instead. Were is the fat award for this effort? It stinks of anti-climatic ending. It is painful enough to build a rocket silo they should just simplify it that the player just has to build one and be done with it. They are clearly not interested to expand this concept so that is actually meaningful instead of this stupid infinity research that acts a poor form of a skinner box. Or maybe even get rid of those biters at this stage since the player probably built a impenetrable fortress already and there is no point to add more enemy because it will distract the newbie even more.
tfw they removed on much older version of factorio the colonization goal were you have to turn your base pretty much into a fortress so that it can survive incoming hordes of progress hating aliens and making sure the space ships have a safe space dock to land so that they don't end up as a massive feast on the aliens dinner "plate". Instead of buildingt the rocket silo it was a large missile station.
f8e0ff No.15668687
>>15668413
To be fair damage type streamlining is fine, the damage types meant fucking nothing before and it's still entirely open to modders. It's not like you changed your strategy based on whether a biter mound had 10% resistance to bullets but 20% resistance to nukes.
Changes that remove modding capability is fine and worth complaining about, changes that merely send modders into pissyfits because it means half an hour of work updating their stuff isn't a big deal. The problem is removal of mining hardness and mining tools.
1fcc30 No.15668763
>>15668687
>the damage types meant fucking nothing
The keyword here is meant.
They could easily make some new mobs that are literally just reskins with different resistances but spawn farther away, forcing you to, for example, get nukes in order to expand to a certain area. Instead they just remove it because writing in three numbers is too hard.
2dce67 No.15668918
>>15668681
**Being real here, I always wanted to be able to build a spaceport, on the planet and on any moons or asteroids and have to make a factory in space, dealing with all the appropriate challenges.
A really cool end game though IMO would have NPC's try to establish small outposts and you ascend to planetary protector since your manufacturing is top notch. Then you can build rails to them and ship back materials that they mine for [and put in boxes, their outposts ship to closer outposts and so on until they deliver to marked chests near you] (to keep your production going and thus completely automating mining including the search for ore) which keeps your production going and essentially you win the game when the NPC's establish a large enough city (to make their own army and carry on) meaning you did a good enough job protecting.**
2dce67 No.15668922
>>15668918
What the fuck code monkey I put in all four asterisks you piece of shit
I guess it doesn't matter anyway.
e7981c No.15668956
>>15668922
Maybe the newline ruins it?
**before newline
after newline**
2dce67 No.15668965
>>15668956
That's probably it. It doesn't really matter, at least I'm not trying to [spioler].
f8e0ff No.15669249
>>15664140
Power is kind of hilarious. All those green houses, those assemblers, most of those inserters and liquifiers are just for keeping power afloat.
Doing some math with Helmod to plan out production lines to figure what can support me with the least power required to support itself. Objective is 60 carbon a second or 360 MW (180 MW after boiler efficiency). Top line is pure greenhouses (what I have now), middle is algae, bottom is greenhouses w/ fertilizer. This assumes top-tier more efficient assemblers and shit though so tier 1 stuff is actually worse. But Fertilized Greenhouses looks like its the way to go. There's also some potential efficiency gains from a better carbon process, and of course higher tier boilers in bobs mods means more efficiency. One thing I like is that you have to plan for RoI of investment well, I could have 60% efficiency rather than 50% but that means steam engines that cost an extra 70 steel which costs 560 iron when I only produce about 25-30 a minute.
Green science will do great things by unlocking all this stuff but its still far away. Automation 2 alone is 320 red science, costing 1,280 iron, Green science unlock the same. So many things to go far, hard to figure out what will improve my overall production the most.
f8e0ff No.15669267
>>15669249
BTW, this merging chests mod is great. Basically lets you dynamically transform any rectangle of chests into a unified warehouse-like storage bank. Very handy as a central buffer that serves lots of consumers.
3194d9 No.15669294
>>15669267
Bots minus bots.
ea2abd No.15669349
>>15669267
kinda cheaty if you ask me since it trivializes belting
f8e0ff No.15669574
>>15669349
I agree it'd be a cheaty if used for lines of assemblers but as a simple buffer for power I'm OK with it.
It's mostly just to guard against death spirals where the last boiler in the line can't get enough coal, causing coal production to go down and the 2nd boiler to run dry, then a few minutes later your whole circuit is down. For me restarting power from nothing would probably take like 10 minutes. Keep in mind I'm generally afk with Factorio running in the background to pick up resources, things need to stay smooth for a long time. It also allows me to look at a single chest to figure out if my buffer is growing bigger or smaller (needing more greenhouses), if you have a dozen small buffers it's really hard to tell if you need to expand production capacity.
14cea6 No.15669935
>>15669574
>>15669349
You know, the v0.17 patch is kinda cheaty, since it trivializes mining and combat
ea2abd No.15669959
>>15669574
You can prevent those death spirals by using burner inserters and looping the belt around the boilers into a chest, which is constantly outputting back onto the belt with inserters. If there happens to be a gap due to a brownout they will close the gaps until the situation normalizes. The way I prevent those from happening is buffering coke pellets through a silo, and because coke pellets are so energy efficient a full silo can last a good couple of hours, but Im not sure if you can make those in seablock.
f8e0ff No.15669992
Now that I think about it, how would you even distribute fuel evenly to multiple boilers without circuits? Wouldn't you have to set up e.g. a 1-to-13 balancer feeding 13 separate buffers, then as soon as you add the 14th boiler you have to tear down the whole balancer and build a 1-to-14? I can't think of any other way and that's just an insane amount of space and work.
>>15669959
>You can prevent those death spirals by using burner inserters and looping the belt around the boilers into a chest, which is constantly outputting back onto the belt with inserters. If there happens to be a gap due to a brownout they will close the gaps until the situation normalizes. The way I prevent those from happening is buffering coke pellets through a silo, and because coke pellets are so energy efficient a full silo can last a good couple of hours, but Im not sure if you can make those in seablock.
It's not the inserters fueling the boilers slowing down that cause the death spiral, it's the greenhouses producing wood slowing down that causes it. Burner inserters just make it worse since they are more expensive to run.
f8e0ff No.15670058
>>15669992
And yeah, pellets are in Seablock. Will give a decent efficiency boost when I get them (25 MJ input 30 MJ output), but that's quite a ways away.
499f2a No.15670163
>>15669267
Too boring and cheaty for me. There is the warehouse mod which does the same thing but better.
Gives you a storehouse with a lot of space that's 3x3 and a warehouse with much more space that's 6x6. (I think).
Comes with all logistic variants too.
0512ad No.15672539
>>15639607
>>15639604
>New players can't figure out mining tools
It took me all of two minutes to figure out how the tool belt works, and I'm pretty much a brainlet who built a huge Rube Goldberg machine for science 2 packs because I didn't know about splitters and underground conveyor belts until I played for two hours.
>pic related
I don't get the logic behind changes like this. Figuring shit out as you play is FUN, but if you don't want to, there's a wiki and there's tutorials.
81f325 No.15672645
>>15670058
When I see mods like this that lets you improve fuel items by stacking/crushing/whatever methods it is used to do that I am wondering why there is no fuel efficiency value. Solid Fuel has a fuel value of 25 MJ which is obviously made from processed raw oil that has higher energy density than coal does, yet with this method this energy density got increased by making it as a charcoal pellet.
e7981c No.15672825
>>15672539
What's with the plate belt circle?
0512ad No.15672837
>>15672825
Autists love things that go in circles, anon.
f8e0ff No.15672865
>>15672645
You're saying that you'd want charcoal to be e.g. 10 MJ w/ 50% efficiency and charcoal pellets to be 10 MJ w/ 60% efficiency or something? At that point the efficiency can just be factored out to say that the charcoal has 5 MJ and the pellets 6 MJ.
You'd have to have some system where the efficiency of fuel was affected in a non-linear way by where its burned. e.g. a low-temperature boiler would boil 50% efficiency fuel normally but 60% would be capped at 55%. I don't think that's possible. Bobs has boilers with different efficiencies but a 50% boiler boils everything at 50% efficiency and a 60% boils everything at 60% (effectively being a boiler with +20% production bonus).
e7981c No.15672899
>>15672837
There are no inserters putting plates in it.
0512ad No.15672937
>>15672899
Yes, there is. It's a long arm inserter above the circle.
As I said, Rube Goldberg machines.
2dce67 No.15672994
>>15672539
This is beautiful, I love it and I have done it before.
14cea6 No.15673003
>FFF update
>no apology, rollback or even acknowledgement of last weeks complaints
THIS IS FINE
0512ad No.15673047
>>15672994
This is how it ended up looking before I abandoned the map because fixing eveything would take too much time. this early in the game.
2dce67 No.15673081
>>15673047
>sushi belt
I need to try one of those, I always end up doing 2 sciences per belt (1 per lane) until my labs have all the science they need. A lot of times it ends up in early labs having bias and later labs starving.
e7981c No.15673087
Biggest relief/annoyance was when I discovered for the first time I could press Alt to see the icons.
0512ad No.15673106
>>15673081
Eh, it's a shitty design. It gets jammed with Science packs 1 and it can't deliver more than 4 science packs without some serious modifications to the design. A traffic jam type system with splitters and two different science packs per belt is much better.
f64985 No.15673117
>>15641991
He's not wrong though.
2dce67 No.15673163
>>15673106
Make a big scrambler for your belt out of splitters so that every science pack goes around the wheel.
499f2a No.15673174
>>15673081
>>15673106
Sushi belts can work, but you're looking at an autistic signal network that only puts in new packs when one is taken out. It's fed entirely by chests you load your packs in. Don't forget to set inserter stack size to 1.
I prefer my labs in columns of 4-6 fed from the top (or bottom). Blue inserters between the labs feed the packs downwards. on top, using two different underground belts, you can feed 8 science packs to one lab iirc.
f8e0ff No.15673408
>>15673174
>Sushi belts can work, but you're looking at an autistic signal network that only puts in new packs when one is taken out. It's fed entirely by chests you load your packs in. Don't forget to set inserter stack size to 1.
It doesn't really require that kind of autism at all. Just run a counter from 0 to num_inputs and have your belts to only activate for their portion. This way you've got a 6 blue belts active 1/6th of the time feeding into 1 blue belt. Assuming your input is compressed you'll get a perfectly proportioned sushi belt and you just loop around the output that isn't used.
f8e0ff No.15673501
>>15673408
Actually now that I think about it, you don't even need circuits for 6 or less ingredients.
2 yellow belts that have a 50/50 mix side load perfectly into a single red sushi belt, and 3 yellow belts can do the same for blue. Easy perfect sushi belt.
2dce67 No.15673508
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15673408
>that splitter
>not autistic
How do they not get mixed up.
2dce67 No.15673517
>>15673408
>>15673508
Wait I'm retarded I forgot about splitter filters.
f8e0ff No.15673519
>>15673508
In-game screenshot tool doesn't show the ALT-information. The bottom right splitters are set to filter out each science pack and the top left ones are there to merge and prioritize the excess coming in from the east
ea2abd No.15673541
>>15673501
You do realize that labs work like chests for inserter rules right? RIGHT?
f8e0ff No.15673551
>>15673541
Those chests are bottomless so that it can run forever for demonstration purposes. The labs would fill up immediately and backlog.
I would have recreated this loop >>15673408
but it was too much work
ea2abd No.15673563
>>15673551
Nigger you can DAISY CHAIN labs.
14cea6 No.15673565
>>15672539
That'd make for a fun challenge, win without robots, trains, cars, splitters, or underground belts.
I mean it's obviously very doable, the logic is just a bit different.
f8e0ff No.15673567
>>15673563
Still backs up immediately. I'm not researching anything in this test game. This is just for demonstration purposes, obviously you'd feed labs with them in real play.
14cea6 No.15673582
This is more or less my ideal lab setup
>3 belts wide, one for each tiered pair (RG/BM/etc)
>Only requires basic tech to get going, modules are gravy
>You don't need more than 32 at most, since it becomes hard to fully saturate purple and yellow science on starting resources
>More than sufficient to carry you straight to rocket silo tech
ea2abd No.15673595
>>15673567
if not for the laws of this land I would have slaughtered you
f8e0ff No.15673602
>>15673582
>using speed rather than production modules
nigga plz
e7981c No.15673723
>>15673582
>>15673595
This is how I do labs. The problem is that it's one line, so pack transfer speed is limited.
14cea6 No.15673732
>>15673602
I don't know if I had them researched at the time I took the screenshot, sorry
bad591 No.15673741
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15673408
>filter inserts
i had no idea this existed
ea2abd No.15673762
>>15673723
then split the bus and become a doublenigger by feeding into one of the intermediary labs so you have 2 independent lab assemblies
81f325 No.15673905
>>15672865
>At that point the efficiency can just be factored out to say that the charcoal has 5 MJ and the pellets 6 MJ.
That would be possible too, but if the "efficiency" value gets factored that way then there is also the possibility that a fuel item has like 25% "efficiency" but double the fuel value which makes it just as good as a fuel item that has half the fuel value but double the "efficiency", so this additional background calculation so to say makes it useless. In other words how would one represent 1 liter, 5 liter and 10 liter barrels filled with solid fuel? Obviously the larger the liter is the "longer" it can burn because there is more volume stored in it then smaller barrels and Factorio doesn't provide such methods, though in the case of solid fuels it would be actually crates or something. One could say the stack size should be used instead to represent how much longer a fuel can burn yet it has the same fuel value but since in Factorio every chest and even the player itself has a pocket warehouse that utilizes the 4th dimension of storage, trying to balance fuel items that way is not as trivial.
And for example if those 3 before mentioned liter "barrels" of solid fuel has the same stack size it makes it essentially the same item with different description.
Maybe I am over thinking here but I just can't suspend my disbelief that a charcoal pallet has 5 MJ more fuel value then a solid fuel which has 25MJ, I don't know if one of those mods rebalances the vanilla fuel value and even if it does the current system is a little bit too linear for my taste.
>You'd have to have some system where the efficiency of fuel was affected in a non-linear way by where its burned. e.g. a low-temperature boiler would boil 50% efficiency fuel normally but 60% would be capped at 55%. I don't think that's possible.
Yeah something along those lines, Factorio kind of does already for steam engines you ideally should only feed it with coal since solid fuel doesn't last much any longer than coal does despite it has a much larger fuel value, I guess it uses a bit different calculation for that which is not as linear.
f8e0ff No.15674244
>>15673905
The way fuel works in factorio 8 MJ of coal lasts as long as 8 MJ of solid fuel. Solid fuel just doesn't come in shunks of 8 MJ, it comes in chunks of 25 MJ. 1 unit of solid fuel lasts a little over 3x as long as 1 unit of coal.
f8e0ff No.15674336
This is the production chain required to get green science on sea block. Pretty brutal. Also a single tier 2 science lab to be able to use green research costs around 1.1k iron plates right now. Techs cost around 3k. Current iron/min is around 35.
14cea6 No.15674598
>>15674244
So in other words, 1MJ can be thought of as a unit of time.
14cea6 No.15674607
>>15674336
I like the idea of Seablock but haven't tried it.
Is there much of a reason to expand, beside space constraints? Or is it just grind grind grind until you win?
f8e0ff No.15674657
>>15674598
Sort of, but only because boilers always boil at the same rate.
>>15674607
You get everything you need from water, and its not exactly hard to get water. But you need a lot of space.
14cea6 No.15674765
>Only played vanilla
>Looking at all the stuff you start with and can craft in Seablock
>Shit I need all this crushed rock to even get sand
>Took me 5 minutes to realize that I had a stack of sand that I could use
Shieet
ea2abd No.15674840
>>15674765
Seablock is an even more autistic extension of one of the most autistic modpacks around, AngelBobs. Youd be better off playing that first. Seablock is essentially a tech reshuffle of the AngelBobs merge with a couple of things on top.
14cea6 No.15674848
>>15674840
Nah, I can already tell I'll enjoy it as a I go. I'm not going to spoil myself too much and just kinda dick with things, since it basically feels like an extension of Factorio and seems to capture what I wanted out of the game anyways
499f2a No.15674945
>>15674336
How the fuck does lategame even work when you need thousands of plates coming in every second?
a9ca35 No.15675083
>>15674945
Everything is infinite isn't it? Just like make more
f8e0ff No.15675144
Rate my cozy little smelting center. All I have to do is change the crystallizers at the top to alter my input and I get what I want out.
>>15674945
Angelbobs has a lot of production multipliers straight from process improvements.
For example, my next target is slag processing 2. That will allow me to get rid of my electrolyzers and replace them with Washing plants, letting me get ore from geodes rather than slag. This should be significantly faster and less energy-intensive. Probably a factor of 2 improvement. Also there's some better filtering that I think gives around 20% improvement?
I can also sort and smelt more effectively. Right now every Ore crystalized gives me 1 slag, 2 iron ore and 1 copper ore. That 2 iron ore through the basic blast furnace->induction furnace gives me 1.6 iron plates, or 80% efficiency. By instead processing the ore and casting from sheet coils I could be getting around 3.5 from 2 ore, or 175%. Better sorting could also give me more iron and less slag/copper. For reference at the very start I was getting .2 iron plates per iron or only 20% efficiency.
Plus with all of this I'm generally getting more power efficient. Where at the beginning roughly 75% of my factory was for generating power for the other 25%, it's already more like 40:60 ratio.
Then you get beacons and modules. Bob's beacons and modules are notoriously overpowered to the point where it's considered somewhat cheaty to fully exploit them.
f8e0ff No.15675222
>>15675144
As to power, I've looked ahead a bit with FNEI and it looks like the Fertilizer option for Greenhouses is actually kind of crap. I assumed fertilizer would be easy, you'd think you could get something decent filtered straight from seawater, but no, it's actually a really long chemical process and worst of all very energy intensive, to the point where it costs more MW than it gives back. So I'm going to be building algae farms for the future, which should be extremely efficient once I get modules. Also better for UPS than those greenhouses.
The other option appears to be the angel farming line, producing wheat and plants and so on for biofuel. I've really never used it, and it looks like the good, easy plants to exploit are temperate seeds. Problem is I'm on desert right now, not even sure if Seablock has temperate plants to find. If it does there's no nearby me, so I do actually have to explore to get stuff. The chains are godawful complex but look like they'll be necessary as a replacement for oil drilling.
e7981c No.15675675
>Make huge blue belt complex
>Fully stocked plate belt for gears
>Not even half of assemblers active
>Only two blue belt assemblers active
a9ca35 No.15675814
So I'm playing seablock for the first time and I just got charcoal. I made a closed loop for power. Is it supposed to be this bad? I'm only getting 300~ kW excess for a fuckton of materials and a huge amount of area.
a9ca35 No.15675827
>>15675814
Here's the setup btw. The line going back will be used once I research belt splitters so I don't shoah my generators.
f8e0ff No.15675872
>>15675827
Nope, that's how it goes. Gotta scale up big time. You can also forage (craft) free cellulose fiber early game, that's the best way to jumpstart power a bit by queuing up a few hundred of those before going afk.
Research to unlock charcoal->carbon for a good efficiency boost.
f8e0ff No.15675879
>>15675814
BTW do you not start with some wind turbines? You should start with enough to provide about ~1.5 MW of free power if you're using the same modset I am.
a9ca35 No.15675882
>>15675872
I guess. What I've done thus far is have my starting windmills powering rock production so I can get sand, while I made this separately. I've got to go to work now, but I guess tomorrow I'll automate sand completely and then repeat this a few times.
3194d9 No.15676867
>>15675675
That's why you math.
14cea6 No.15676970
Okay it's shitty, but I have a positive feedback loop on green algae, so now I can get a supply of fuel going
14cea6 No.15677269
>>15676970
A little more progress
Not sure what I should build towards, but my goal is to get things going automatically and sustainably, while I slowly tech up
f8e0ff No.15677388
>>15677269
Mechanical refining is great, you want sorting ASAP to get more out of each crushed ore.
Slag processing lets you get more out of slag and choose the ore you get (Stiratite is basically waste material you don't want once you get sorting).
Metallurgy further improves your efficiency. Need steel to build the furnace though. Steel is a big problem since its 8 iron to 1 steel and you don't get any efficiency improvements till green science. I did boilers and steam engines mk 2 to improve power yield but it took forever.
Coal Processing lets you get a bit more energy out of charcoal, and you'll need it for electronics.
81f325 No.15677817
>>15673003
Looks like they are sticking with their decision, I bet they did this on purpose with the hope people will "forget" about it and move on, I cannot wait for their next noob related updates.
bad591 No.15677968
>>15673003
maybe i'll buy it when it goes on sale
>but anon it never goes on sale
<
360127 No.15680245
>>15677388
Im hitting a power problem; i need the pellets in a few places and have too much shit going to sustain making charcoal, i instead need to keep making pellets and tossing them into the boilers, but charcoal is more efficient (like 120mj per cycle instead of 96mj) so its worth producing it
But i also cant expand because i need the stone to mineralize the water for green algae. Hm. Brown algae is just used for basic chips right?
I like there are different tech groups and even if you need them all eventually, it lets you prioritize different things early on. Its bretty fun even if my factory power is in a death spiral right now
3194d9 No.15680247
>>15680197
Needs moar beacons.
e7981c No.15680294
>>15680247
Shit that's a fair point. What's the best layout?
e3d0a9 No.15680402
>>15680294
Not him but this is my go-to vanilla smelt print. Spits out 3 full blue belts, spammable in a line for more, stack a second onto the end of one for iron>steel.
f8e0ff No.15680578
>>15680197
>2 blue belts of ore in
>4 blue belts for outputting plate
1:2 ratio gives you 5/10.
>>15680402
Is this outputting compressed blue belts? Doesn't look like it would, those splitters will distribute the plates 50/50.
But yeah, constructed lines of smelters and beacons like this are fairly optimal.
499f2a No.15680596
e3d0a9 No.15680620
>>15680578
>Is this outputting compressed blue belts?
Here it is in constant motion, via creativemod entities. Splitter output priority halfway through each furnace set + inserter logic when inserting onto a partially compressed belt is enough to compress it, no need for any balancing at the end.
a9ca35 No.15680739
Even with coal my loop can barely support itself. Using turbines I'm going to go for steel, hopefully the 20% increase in efficiency for boilers (50%->60%) will make a larger difference.
f8e0ff No.15680741
>>15680620
Intredasting. Didn't notice/recognize how the splitter priority would work in this situation.
Can you give a blueprint? I'd like to see if I could get more output or compress it a bit.
f8e0ff No.15680772
>get Slag Processing 2 for ceramic filters
>ceramic filters needs Alumina
>get Advanced Aluminum for Alumina
>Aluminum Ore requires clay bricks (Cement research) and Hydro refining (which itself requires 4 more techs).
Gah, I just want to stop needing to refill my filters with charcoal. Whatever, should have sidetracked to steel smelting long ago. Steel is the main barrier to getting more power and refining/research going.
Slag Processing did unlock geodes though. Produces mineral sludge for ore at less power than slag does while also producing a net gain in stone/mineralized water. Also nice and colorful to look at.
a9ca35 No.15680829
Oh, and can someone explain to me how temperature and steam engines interact? I have t2 boilers now that heat to 300 something C and engines that have a max temp of 165 C. That's still more efficient than T1 both, right?
e3d0a9 No.15680844
>>15680741
https://ghostbin.com/paste/6a6m9
There's definitely room for improvement on it, the biggest issue is that the lanes are fed by 7 and 6 furnaces on each belt, so the group of 7 is underworked while the 6 is overworked, leaving some gaps on one lane and full furnaces. Going to 7/7 would work but 13 furnaces is enough to compress a belt in theory, so somehow splitting the output more evenly would be the ideal solution.
a9ca35 No.15680860
>>15680739
>Steam that has a higher temperature than the maximum temperature of the steam engine (165°C) is consumed at the normal rate (30 units/s), and does not yield more electricity. This means the energy that was put into the steam to heat it to a higher temperature is wasted.
Found my answer
f8e0ff No.15680959
>>15680860
Yeah, you need the higher tier steam engines as well.
1d70d3 No.15681062
Dunno why people bother trying to get everything 100% efficient, compressed, zero buildup or excess, etc. Just make sure there's enough input and don't worry about it, no need to break out a fucking calculator and have your shit run on a 0.5% margin.
f8e0ff No.15681115
>>15680844
This fixes your problem and gives a compressed belt. The 7 furnace was choked by lack of space to output fully, by putting a splitter at #6 (to force stuff off the output lane) and #10 (to ensure the inside lane is fully compressed) we can have all those furnaces outputting at full speed. The exact points at which you split don't matter terribly much, just do it before and after the middle. The final furnaces need extra inserter capacity (either 2 inserters or stack inserters) to ensure they are fast enough to catch the irregularly spaced gaps.
e3d0a9 No.15681409
>>15681115
It does definitely compress a lot more smoothly now, neat.
f8e0ff No.15681722
>>15680844
Here's a way to cut out the gaps in the smelters. Just use the splitters to swap the ore to the outside and the plates to the inside.
https://ghostbin.com/paste/syoj2
I'm pretty sure there's a way to get 4 blue belts out. Maybe even more. Basically doing this except you start by unloading on red belts that get braided through the blue ores.
14cea6 No.15682313
>6.5h in
>"I am very bad at blind plays" edition
f8e0ff No.15682346
>>15682313
Should be more efficient to crush slag into stone and make sand compared to washing mud into it.
14cea6 No.15682351
>>15682346
I actually just set up the mud station. I figure that my ore output is going to be limited by how much mineral water I am able to crystalize: therefore, as much stone being turned to water as possible is better. At least with the mud, it's "free" (power cost) and passive, and I can gradually expand. Or I can crush the slag from sorting into stones for expansion, I dunno
a9ca35 No.15682432
I just realized that mineralized water was the genesis of basically everything and yet I had three separate production zones for it instead of a centralized zone. This should be a massive boost to production.
14cea6 No.15682463
What's the point of advanced metal smelting? It looks like it has 3 steps, which all work in 1:1 yields. Is it just a precursor to higher ranks of it?
f8e0ff No.15682561
>>15682463
Smelting ingots is 100% efficiency, smelting processed ore is 150%, smelting pellets is 200%, then doing the sheet casting with coolant is a bit above that. This is for iron but other types have similar processes. Some require extra inputs that are hard to get and not worth doing.
If you check the ore->iron in your furnaces you'll notice they aren't 100%, they are 75% or something
14cea6 No.15682578
>>15682561
Okay, I figured it was something like that.
Right now I have it mostly self sustaining, with a trickle of red research, but I'm not sure what I should do to increase my oomph. I feel like my bottleneck is making more mineral water, but I'm limited by crushed stone. Do I just scale up Electrolyzers? It feels like that'd overwhlem my power, and I barely have enough fuel to sustain one boiler/2 engines
f8e0ff No.15682734
>>15682578
Yeah, it's all about scale. I recommend making nice simple lines so you can scale up everything in each direction like >>15664140
a9ca35 No.15682775
>>15682734
When you get steel is it a good idea to nigger rig your way into mass producing iron and make wind turbines just so you don't have to bother juggling fuel production for power with your early shit power options? Sure it takes a lot of steel, but once it's done it's just free power.
f8e0ff No.15682916
>>15682775
Probably not. Technically every power source is "free" power in seablock, you just construct the power producer along with a closed circuit that generates fuel.
I have 23 steam engine mk2s right now and they can produce 41.4 MW. The same with wind power would require around 3,500 turbines or ~120k iron. Producing those 23 steam engines only cost me around 15k iron and even with the cost of greenhouses/algae farms, assemblers, inserters, belts, etc there's no way its nearly as bad as the wind farm would be. e.g. my 100 greenhouses cost 500 iron total and my 50 algae farms cost 900 iron total.
This is marathon prices though so I'm not sure if normal are the same ratio. Also not sure on solar vs. steam.
14cea6 No.15686603
f8e0ff No.15686780
I've reached mineralized water autarky. Don't need to electrolyze any slag specifically to feed my algae farms and thereby keep power running, instead my entire base runs off the byproduct of my production. This also means I have a shit ton of slag to turn into sand. Lebensraum is coming.
Total ore crystallized is sitting at 250/min, of which I get about 75 iron plate/min out of. Advanced ore refining will close to double it since I can get pure iron with no copper or slag.
e7981c No.15686883
>>15686780
Ok I've been ignoring it, but now I want to know which mod this is. Also, what's special about it?
14cea6 No.15687202
>>15686883
This is Seablocks.
You start with a handful of machinery on a 1x1 tile and build from there. It seems to use Angelbob's and a bunch of other packs. I like it because you have like 5 or 6 different production goals to expand, and it kinda dictates how your factory flows early on.
Pic related is ~10h, and I'm almost at green science. I just need more metal.
1d70d3 No.15687233
>>15686883
Seems people like it because it uses an alternate tech tree so you have to relearn to optimize, plus you have very limited amounts of land so it really takes planning.
1d70d3 No.15687247
>>15687233
also fuck flags, use em once as a joke and they keep showing up when you post for days
02b959 No.15687288
The 50% boiler efficiency was an important balancing feature that made steel furnaces competitive with electric furnaces. Did the developers completely forget about this or have they changed something else along with it to still give players a reason to choose steel over electric?
1d70d3 No.15687375
>>15687288 (卐)
Why shouldn't electric furnaces be superior to steel ones, if they're further down the research line?
f8e0ff No.15687441
>>15687288
I think they plan to just halve the energy consumption of stone/steel furnaces.
>>15687375
Because burning coal to heat water to turn a turbine and charge an electric current is less efficient then simply burning coal to heat something up.
14cea6 No.15687511
>Need a shitty loop to produce charcoal so I don't power spiral to death
>Slowly get a linear increase of fuel stock
>Set up a dumb chain of processing to get slag->slurry set up
>Realize I don't need to feed stones into my mineralizer to get resources anymore
>Suddenly don't need to consume stones at all
>Can just feed all my slag slag slag into the slurry producer
>Crystallize all the slurry
>Tons of minerals now
Holy fuck
86b9bd No.15687531
I know this isn't related to Factorio, but it's related to factory sims. I got into the Satisfactory closed alpha and it's a disaster (I merely applied, I haven't paid for anything). Would anyone be interested in me making a thread to document how shitty it is? It's platinum bad.
14cea6 No.15687537
>>15687531
Fantastic, go for it.
1d70d3 No.15687573
>>15687531
I'd be interested, because i thought that game looked interesting. Try to be fair though, obviously it won't be as balanced as Factorio given its multiplayer vs singleplayer focus, but aside from that I'd like to hear its strengths vs its failures. Link in this thread when you do. To link a thread use >>> instead of >>
14cea6 No.15687583
>>15687573
You can link a thread with just >>. >>> is for crossboard posting
2dce67 No.15687586
>>15687531
I was hoping it wouldn't be that, but if I can get some popcorn value out of the failure it's at least an exchange if not a fair one. Go for it.
1d70d3 No.15687647
>>15687583
Shit, thanks. Never been a big crossboard poster
14cea6 No.15687868
Well I hit a power spiral, but I disconnected a bunch of things while I expand and recover from it
e49f3c No.15687885
Where is the satisfactory thread
9f1410 No.15689008
>>15687885
>thread for a game that doesn't exist yet
Up your ass.
3194d9 No.15689090
Finally, it's coming alive.
aafb7a No.15689100
>>15689090
Now THIS is the kind of autism I want to see
3458cb No.15689104
>>15688999 (Checked)
Remove Israel
Rat boy genius is the only quality content left on youtube
a9ca35 No.15689467
>>15689008
>I am utterly illiterate
a00a91 No.15689479
>>15689090
sweet lord jesus
09e630 No.15690987
>>15673117
Only in saying that most people didn't calculate and give a shit.
Including me
14cea6 No.15691395
>>15687868
Fuel is still a problem, but now I'm more sustainable, and have better chains set up
14cea6 No.15691989
>>15691395
Fuel is better now, but the chest buffer I'm using can't quite keep up with the demand (no fast inserters yet) so I still need to keep an eye on it every now and then.
Also HOLY SHIT you guys should've been more hype about the blast furnace. It's way better.
>3 stage process
>First needs fuel and stacks of 24 ores into ingots (x24)
>Second needs power and converts ingots into liquid (x12)
>Third needs power and converts liquid into bars (x4)
So basically it's super fast, and get 24x more fuel efficiency, and it only takes up a fraction of the space an equivalent furnace setup would take. I'm still fussing over my slurry production as well. Recycling sulfur pretty much helps offset the low production from mud, but also I can't quite come up with a suitable design for the filtration units yet.
Next time I have a day off I look forward to messing around with scaleable designs in freeplay or something
168536 No.15692094
>>15691989
Yeah blast furnaces are the way to go. Really good return for little research investment. Just a matter of getting the Steel to get the components. From there though you just shit out Iron.
Here's where I'm up to in SeaBlock. About to uproot the base and clean it up for the third time. I found that Arbortoriums were much better than Algae Farms. Easy to shit out Raw Wood which is great when you reach Wood Processing 3 as you get the default AngelBob Wooden Board recipe back (Raw Wood > Wood > Wooden Board).
f8e0ff No.15693736
>>15692094
>I found that Arbortoriums were much better than Algae Farms.
Jesus you're right.
List goes:
Greenhouses
(green) algae farms
Solid Fuel from vegetable oil
Arboretum
Arboretum w/ fertilizer (note there's two kinds of fertilizer, the greenhouse one is shit and impossible to make efficiently, this kind is simple and requires a very small amount of blue algae).
60 carbon (6 MJ) for ~30 MJ of power is amazing compared to the other methods of getting carbon and is fairly close to 60 Solid Fuel (25 MJ) for ~130 MJ of power. Solid Fuel still a bit better since it gives nutrient pulp that converts to plastic and/or more fuel.
Still seems almost cheating IMO. Angel's tree-growing greenhouses are just way better than Bob's. I don't know about using this…
>>15691989
Blast furnaces are kind of a big deal for standard Bobs+Angels. It's sort of assumed you know how they work before you do Seablock. Yeah they rock.
For filtration I like to go with direct insertion, just throw the filter assembler next to two filtration units, give it a stack of charcoal. Soon I'll have ceramic filters though and be free of the charcoal jew sucking from my fuel supply.
f64985 No.15694717
>>15643974
This would have been a WAY better fix! Having a personal Omni Tool or something that consumes fuel when you're using it, but that has upgrade tiers to mine or tear things down, or build (craft) faster would have been a much more satisfying fix. It would have given people a thing to still craft (different fuel types) but the upgrade would reflect a real world change instead of just numbers. Having it also do things like a faster hand held crafting speed, and increased construction distance would have been cool too, so that you could eventually build in a much larger area, before switching to robots
bad591 No.15694831
>>15693736
using Bob's greenhouse mod while trying to do angelbob's instead of angel's much more elaborate version is blatant cheating.
Bob's greenhouse is a joke. It's pretty much an infinite free energy machine when you consider using the wood to fuel burners.
bad591 No.15694837
>>15694831
using angel's for wood/fuel might be free energy too i didn't run the numbers but it doesn't feel right with how simplistic the bob's greenhouse wood system is. once i did the angel's system for the first time to make wood it's not that hard. you just have to find one of the rare trees for the seed to make the tree seed generator thing. it shouldn't be that hard to do by the time you need to make wood at a large scale. probably a lot harder on rampant / deathworld but i gave up trying on those until i get better and/or have a ton of blueprints to smack down during a rampant/deathworld run.
f8e0ff No.15694869
>>15694831
In seablock terms Angels is more free energy than bobs. Angels is actually quite overpowered in comparison.
Assuming 50% boilers, bob's greenhouses are only ~40% efficient while Angel's are ~85% efficient.
14cea6 No.15695200
Okay, decided to just start over and do better this time. Now at about 45m
168536 No.15696949
Finally cleaned up the base and modularized some of the sections. Happy with the smelter setup as I can now convert to a single type of ore based on the combination of the two crystalizers. The arbortorium setup supplies heaps of wood for the soon to come Basic Circuit setup and still plenty left over for charcoal production for fuel purposes.
e7981c No.15697015
>>15696949
What do the enemies look like in this mod?
14cea6 No.15697040
>>15697015
The few bases I've seen so far have just been clusters of worms. I imagine if you remove the sea spawning, it'll be like normal factorio
168536 No.15697053
>>15697015
The enemies are just worms. It's one aspect of SeaBlock that I'm finding is lacking. It's there to constrain you initially, but you can tech to a point where you have higher range than any size worm and it becomes trivial.
I'm trying to find a combination of mods that would bring back biters and have them swim. There's already a swim mod https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Noxys_Swimming which allows both the player and enemies to swim in water.
14cea6 No.15697060
>>15697053
While 0.17 will kill the mods, they have that non-buildable water terrain that lets you walk on it, which is neat
e7981c No.15697131
5ad42b No.15697927
14cea6 No.15700598
>4 hours in
>Iron is fucking scarce
>Barely had the power to keep 3-4 electrolyzers going without blowing through my fuel supply
>Now 30 iron is "a lot" and I can barely craft shit anymore
What should I have built?
f8e0ff No.15701061
>>15700598
I'd have fully connected up your power so you didn't have to remember to drop fuel in manually. Power downward spirals take a lot of time to get out of.
Switch that chemical plant for a liquifier, more efficient.
Really no advantage to 2 labs for a long time.
14cea6 No.15701291
>>15701061
I let it rip through my excess fuel stock while I made dinner to create a bunch more ores, then I dismantled that part and made pic related.
Would an overflow valve (80%) be a good way to regulate how much mineral water I have to make sure the crystallizer isn't too hungry? Making slurry in a bit, too
6e0c9a No.15704645
f8e0ff No.15704684
>>15701291
Don't really see the point of an overflow valve in your case. You use those when you might accidentally make too much of a liquid.
Like, say you are doing a process where you need oxygen. You want all your oxygen to go to that process first, then go to the flare stack. You'd put the overflow valve in front of the flare stack.
14cea6 No.15705390
>>15701291
Today's update. Haven't grabbed tin or lead yet, so no green science, but I have a few things prepared. I wanna get the thing for prepared iron asap, so I can get flooded in ore
3194d9 No.15707833
>>15689100
>>15689479
It's from the /v/ server from last thread. The spacex mod requires a few million science packs for the last few researches, so I built a new science compound (and some mines to feed it) to get them done in 16 hours or so. Only, it kinda strains the server so it's more like 100 hours in real time.
It probably doesn't help that it runs off nuclear power, but solar would have required finding twenty million square feet of empty space.
f8e0ff No.15707846
>>15701291
>but solar would have required finding twenty million square feet of empty space.
And?
3194d9 No.15707877
>>15707846
Expanding walls would probably have slowed the game down even more.
3354eb No.15707898
>>15707833
>that massive nuclear power plant
Holy fucking shit, my peepee hard.
f8e0ff No.15708251
>>15707877
If anything it would probably improve UPS. Empty land or land with simple things like solar panels requires basically no processing power. Ideally you'll clear land well beyond your borders so that pollution doesn't each the biters, causing them to need way less CPU time.
f8e0ff No.15709051
Gotta say, I've never seen a base where inserters were this big of a comparative power drain.
Probably has a lot to do with the fact that I only have normal inserters to use, normally you'd have your inserter power drain split up across several types. Still wow.
bad591 No.15710437
>>15707833
the /v/ server is still up?
angelbobs server when
f8e0ff No.15710783
>>15709051
Did some math for Angel's farming. Far right columns are what you want to look at. Assumes you use the best process. The math doesn't totally add up as shown since I smacked 10% off the solid fuel line (everything but fibre) since it requires 1 charcoal and I smacked 5% off the fibee line for needing a furnace and overall way more processing. Usefulness of Crystal Dust was not factored in but can be assumed to be marginal since washing plants generate geodes way faster.
TL;DR you want Quillnoa.
Should be noted that while the entire process looks daunting, the ratios for compost and fertilizer to farm is very, very favourable. You can make a bare minimum of those then stamp down a good number of farms/bioprocessors. Just waiting for seeds at the moment, that's the slow part.
bad591 No.15711455
>>15710783
what's the point of the foods / farming products? i haven't gotten that far in angelbob's. The furthest i've gone down that route is wood.
I need to check but I'm pretty sure you can feed some of this shit into burners too, for infinite (?) UPS destroying energy.
f8e0ff No.15711813
>>15711455
Early stuff like greenhouses and algae have an awful power consumed:power gained ratio. We're talking needing 10 MW of greenhouses to produce 20 MW of power, so to produce 20 MW of power with them you'd actually need to set up all the infrastructure and stuff to produce 40 MW. Angel's farming is just more efficient. You also get some extra products useful for higher tech stuff, as you can see the mineral oil storage there (Mineral Oil makes lube, coolant, and is used for polishing gems). Other processes give liquid plastic, liquid resin, and liquid rubber.
That said if you are using Angel's wood production I think that is about as powerful as this farming process so your power production:power consumed ratio is similarly good. I just found that simplistic process OP, Arboretums ugly and out of place, and I needed some of the byproducts of this stuff eventually anyway.
f8e0ff No.15711845
>>15711813
Ohh, just took a look and discovered mineral oil also looks to be the basis for "normal" oil processing. It + steam = Synthesis Gas which can then be turned into Naphtha which is the Angel version of Heavy Oil. I think farming is the only way to get the vegetable oil that seems to be the only way to get mineral oil.
I should mention that you should probably start farming fairly early. The way seeds works is that you'll probably only have 5 seeds and every time you process them back to working condition after being used there's a 5% chance to get 1 more. Hence the number of farms you can run is a very slow exponential curve approximated by f(x) = 1.01^x, where x is the number of cycles you been through. It will take about 70 minutes to run a 2nd farm, by 140 minutes you can run 4 farms, 210 minutes you can run 8 farms, and so on. It's possible that you don't need farming at all and everything has an alternate good, mass-producable recipe in Seablock but I can't confirm that. Farming is pretty straightforward once you've broken ground and got a process going.
There's also weird stuff like growing fish and puffers or w/e. Not sure if these are intended to be useful in a manufacturing process or are simply joke allied creatures you release to run around.
f8e0ff No.15712307
>>15711845
>Hence the number of farms you can run is a very slow exponential curve approximated by f(x) = 1.01^x, where x is the number of cycles you been through. It will take about 70 minutes to run a 2nd farm, by 140 minutes you can run 4 farms, 210 minutes you can run 8 farms, and so on.
Actually, note that this is very wrong unless you go about it well. Since farms will only use 5 seeds but then inserters will give them 10 seeds to store as a buffer, you're actually looking at 3x as long unless you use some kind of circuitry or belt logic to divide seeds among farms properly.
f8e0ff No.15714741
>>15712307
Here's how to circuit so that farms don't buffer seeds.
You need to load the initial 5 seeds, then for every 5 seeds that are taken out another 5 can come in.
a9ca35 No.15715395
Is there a better way to automate iron and copper in the early game (red science)?
Obviously the liquifiers should go back for more water crystalization, but other than that.
14cea6 No.15715427
>>15715395
Not that I can really tell, no. Because of all the junk products it makes, you're sorta required to have a series of splitters to sort things between intermediary machines or what have you.
You won't start to get more resources until you research slag slurry stuff. Until then, your crushed stones are going to either be put into mineral water production for algae/crystalizer, or used to expand your turf
14cea6 No.15715625
Surprise, I started over again mostly due to my bad layout
Anyways, I got slurry in <3h for a change, instead of farming up fuel and wasting a ton of time and resources on algae farms and electrolyzers to support it all.
f8e0ff No.15716943
>>15714741
Done with farming for now.
This block of farms should provide around 175 MW of power. Not only that, building it reduced my power consumption from 75 MW to 50 MW because it requires so much less power to run than greenhouses/algae.
So, a protip for those still not up to this point: DON'T get ceramic filtering. Or do for things like how I'm filtering the farm output, but don't use ceramics for general mineral sludge filtering. Reason? It actually sucks way more mineralized water. This requires way too much effort to create from electrolysers and liquifiers. Instead just overproduce charcoal (basically any production is overproduction now that I have farms) and use that. With geodes + charcoal filtering you naturally overproduce mineralized water. I had something of an epiphany that I should go back to having some crystallizers running straight off mineralized water. It's basically free ore. However I need to hugely revamp and expand how I'm producing ore and sorting it, that whole bottom left corner of the base is where it will be. I have 25k sand in my pocket at the moment, time to go lawn mowing.
Also researching at a pretty good pace. Main bus is set up, just needs a lot of ore going in. Planning on getting blue science ASAP and some of the final efficiency unlocks (esp iron smelting).
>>15715625
Use a hydro plant to filter out the sulfuric waste water and use the resulting sulfur to make more sulfuric acid. With charcoal filtering it's a net positive cycle, with ceramic filtering you still need a small input of sulfur from elsewhere.
Getting sulfur only from washing is almost certainly incredibly awful to scale up.
Build things in lines like I did for easy expansion, anything going in circles like you are doing is what leads to layout problems. See >>15664140, the only thing I didn't have properly extended in an indefinite line was the power. Surprise surprise, it came back to bite me in the ass when processing all that charcoal to be burned in the boiler bottlenecked around 65 MW, leading to constant power issues until I built the farms.
>>15715395
Splitter sorting is the way to go once you have to scale up. Make sure to get research ore sorting to get more mixed outputs that are fun to deal with.
6deb1b No.15720823
>>15638843
Well, I played a deathworld map and ended up basically unstoppable. Launched 500 or so rockets. Wanted to expand my setup to make 1k green circuits per second but to do that would require pushing through enormous numbres of biters that caused my UPS to plummet, so I ended up cheating and removing them by console command as well as pollution. This helped performance a lot.
Now my base is expanded. I'm making about 50k green circuits a minute but feel like I can't be bothered any more, after 150 hours. Infinite research is only being done on mining efficiency and bot speed. Wish I had something else to spend the resourced on.
bad591 No.15727516
>>15688089
>>15688999
this is some mkultra shit
14cea6 No.15728458
>>15716943
Sulfur isn't the problem, every time I try to scale up to another electrolyzer for more throughput, it kills all my power
14cea6 No.15732139
>when you misclick the crafting
14cea6 No.15732257
I kinda condensed my electrolyzers, but it's way more awkward to work with
14cea6 No.15736481
Got over my hump. Scaled up to 8 algae farms, three sets of block makers, and have a ton of carbon getting shat out
bad591 No.15736622
>>15736481
this is making me want to try this.
im starting to get the hang of angelbobs but i haven't even attempted to get ratios right, it doesn't seem like there's enough time to dick around even on normal to keep up with biter evolution.
i don't think deathworld or rampant is realistic unless i've got another game to dick around in and pull blueprints in.
no biters has always seemed pointless, but this seablock seems to be a good replacement challenge
165322 No.15736709
>>15736622
Angelbobs is supposed to be played with a third of normal evolution speed.
bad591 No.15737087
>>15736709
where are you getting that from?
165322 No.15737440
>>15737087
From multiple playthroughs with varying evolution speeds until it was apparent that evolution at a third of normal speed aligns perfectly with vanilla tech progression.
Not thats it undoable on standart speed, you will just spend half your early and midgame tediously managing defenses instead of getting shit done.
f8e0ff No.15737559
>>15737440
All you need is military science for sniper turrets and biters become forever easymode. You don't even really need to set up a full production line, just hand craft the science with the raw materials for one tech and then spam snipers.
Their damage bonus means that even normal ammo one-shots almost everything from well out of range of everything. You can even basically treat them like laser turrets with endless ammo since throwing down 10 in an area with the auto distribution mod giving them 10 mags each will probably last longer than it takes to expand your base past their radius. The only time evolution is a problem in vanilla is because normal/piercing ammo in normal turrets loses tons of damage to resistance and needs tons of materials since damage per shot is low.
165322 No.15737790
>>15737559
All you need is to slap IAA mod on it.
My point is that a third of evolution speed feels more vanilla-like than the default values. You can play at default values fine, but you may prefer the breathing room.
The game is forever easy mode from the beginning anyway and lets not kid ourselves or anyone else about that.
353cf6 No.15738410
14cea6 No.15739258
>>15738528
God, cleaning this up feels great
f8e0ff No.15739337
>>15716943
Ore sorting/smelting is set up for long term usage. Lovely lanes of plates.
Blue science is a real bitch though. No way around setting up petrochem. The way to petrochem is blue algae, not farms. At least for now, farm->biofuels is higher tech.
14cea6 No.15740885
>>15739337
How are you generating so much sand? Is it all dredging mud or from stone sources?
165322 No.15742621
>>15740885
sand is produced from washing mud only if it works the same in seablock as it does in angelbobs
ba2c28 No.15743737
>>15738410
Looks like they won't add anymore interesting mechanic in this game which is a shame. It would be interesting having to deal a bit more dangers beside the bugs that are inhabiting the planet. One of my gripe with this game is that every process is 100% perfect in the sense the player doesn't need to get rid of dirt/garbages that is the result of certain process especially anything that involves with chemicals. I kinda hoped they would add some sort of industrial scale failures such as a reactor meltdown since they added the nuclear power plant already which is a let down as it behaves essentially as a upgraded coal source instead of something were the player needs to pay more attention to it so that he doesn't get screwed up big time. The pollution mechanic in this case is pretty much useless because all it does is pissing the aliens more off and that's fucking it, might as well get rid of it.
I know I know that certain mod types add those features but still why does every damn feature need to be reliant of mods instead of being added to the base game? It would help giving the game a bit more of a depth besides of the puzzle/logistic challenges it has.
f8e0ff No.15743758
>>15740885
Stone is definitely better early game. Slag crushing->sand is around 2 MJ per sand while Washing Mud->sand is around 9 MJ.
Washing is better once you are doing crushed geodes->ore. That gives both mud and some extra crushed stone as byproducts. Since you're getting everything you want at a modest combined power cost just scale that up endlessly. If I really need sand I can turn off my mineralized water->ore process and have all the slag fall through the mineralizers into the sand production process
bad591 No.15744654
>>15743737
>One of my gripe with this game is that every process is 100% perfect in the sense the player doesn't need to get rid of dirt/garbages that is the result of certain process
this is what angelbobs does.
if they are trying to dumb down the game they certainly aren't about to turn angelbob's into vanilla.
f8e0ff No.15745348
>>15739337
Got blue science automated (very slow, but automated) only to find that I need a new lab type to process blue science and its insanely expensive. Just wow. Definitely going to need to upgrade production, might want to get into beacons/modules much quicker.
>>15743737
>>15744654
The issue for them with adding more complexity to the game is that mods already do it so much better than they could. They are a small dev team, even if they spent 1k hours adding something they'd be breaking a ton of mods that combined probably have 100k hours of work put into them.
987dd0 No.15749691
>>15743737
It's a game about automation. Having events that require you to babysit certain things because they might explode breaks the point of it being automated. It would be interesting if some processes created waste or by-products, but that would only be additional logistics. All you're doing is taking something that's multiple inputs and a single output and making it multiple inputs and multiple outputs. You're still just going to put everything on belts or in chests for the bots to take care of.
ba2c28 No.15750927
>>15745348
>they'd be breaking a ton of mods that combined probably have 100k hours of work put into them.
But that almost happens with every major-ish release, previously there was only 4 science packs and now there is 3 more so the modders have to rebalance their tech trees to reflect this change. And making ayy lamos less worthy opponent to slaughter
>The issue for them with adding more complexity to the game is that mods already do it so much better than they could.
It sounds to me more likely that their long term strategy is a bit poorly planed, considering that they are about to rebalance the science packs again and also changing how the barrels/tank storage works which on 0.16 release have less fluids now in barrels and in tank wagons and removing the feature that it would store 3 different liquids, and that they just made relative recently the space rocket a bit more useful which is mainly used for infinite research whose purpose/usefulness could be debated.
>>15749691
Yes that is a fair point it would be difficult balancing baby sitting vs automation, the same issue is already there for long time with the biter balance as they become just a nagging thing once the player fortified his base heavily with laser turrets.
>but that would only be additional logistics. All you're doing is taking something that's multiple inputs and a single output and making it multiple inputs and multiple outputs.
Yeah right all it does that the layout needs to be changed a bit so that it works properly with multiple outputs instead of single output which requires a tad more space which is much more than enough in this game.