/v/ - A FUCKING PLANT

Zelda II is where Miyamoto truly tried to rip-off the early PC JRPGs. I'd rather play Xanadu or Sorcerian than Zelda II.

>>15633294

>better game

>rip-off

Nah

Back in the day when it first came out, people liked it but not to the same extent they liked the first game, or ALTTP.

Nowadays I think most them hate it because it requires you to actually talk to townspeople to learn the lore, put two-and-two together, and then go do shit on your own initiative instead of using floating waypoints every fucking where. That and the fact you can actually die.

I hate modern open-world games since devs don't seem capable of creating a game that doesn't rely on mini-maps and floating waypoints. These old games gave you directions and you had to follow them, write down the cryptic hints, and make your own maps. Nowadays everything is done for you and it's fucking boring.

I replayed Faxanadu the other night and ended up making my own maps for the last few areas, and talking to townspeople to figure out what to do next when I got stuck, and had a fucking blast. Now I'm moving on to Battle of Olympus which I never played when I was a kid and it's just as good as Zelda II, maybe even better.

>>15633313

Yeah. Zelda II is a much better game. The combat of the two trash titles you brought up doesn't even come close to what Zelda II offers.

the combat in zelda 2 isn't complex. You either attack high or you attack low. If you want to see the Zelda 2 formula but not shit play any of the Wonder Boy games.

>>15633356

>you either attack high or you attack low

As well as dodge, jump, and block with your shield. Just attacking high or low is why people think that the axe throwers in Death Mountain are hard.

>>15633323

Faxanadu is good, but I've never tried Battle of Olympus.

Is it actually possible to solve some of the more cryptic puzzles in the game without looking up a guide?

>>15633374

>As well as dodge

there's no dodge.

> jump

usually just makes you vulnerable

> shield

so, do nothing.

People don't think the combat is hard, they think it's a grind. Because it is. A tedious, shallow grind. Play the Wonder Boy games and get back to me.

>>15633423

What's a cryptic puzzle to you?

>>15633425

>there's no dodge

Moving around to avoid an attack is dodging it. No there isn't a dedicated dodge roll button, kid.

>usually just makes you vulnerable

Not to the ranged attack you just jumped over.

>so, do nothing

and get hit in the legs because you needed to block low?

>People don't think the combat is hard, they think it's a grind. Because it is. A tedious, shallow grind. Play the Wonder Boy games and get back to me.

A grind? That's why you can beat the game with two level 1 stats, right?

>>15633438

>That's why you can beat the game with two level 1 stats, right?

maximize the tedium, sure

>>15633438

Ive only ever beaten the first zoldo on NES back in the day but even I only found that one fucking dungeon by sheer luck. I thought there was some cryptic shit with using the whirlwind spell in 2 at a certain location thats barely explained but now im not so sure

>>15633445

>playing the game is tedium

Not everyone just wants to skip to the end game screen. Also, not everyone just wants one game with a particular gameplay style.

>>15633452

>mixing up Castlevania 2 with Zelda II

ebin

Are people who hate Skyward Sword a bunch of pussies who couldn't handle combat that was more complex than press button?

I AM ERROR.

>>15633260

no they were probably ready to throw the fucking controller because of the swamp areas.

>>15633700

Should have posted a pic of Ys III.

Also, while Zelda is indeed overrated shit, Zelda II is the best 2D entry in the series.

The combat isn't the problem, it's super simple except for the enemies that read your inputs (or at least I thought they did, it's been a long time since I played it willingly). The level design is fucking awful. I can live with getting knocked into a pit and dying, but getting knocked into a pit and getting put in a different part of the dungeon is just tedious.

>>15633768

Was it ever confirmed that Rambo uses the Zelda II engine, because there is no way that I will believe it doesn't.

>>15633777

I like that there are no instant death pits in dungeons unless there is lava. It makes sense that when there is a floor below you fall to it. The trick is to git gud and not fall back down.

>>15633750

<Never said that it was.

>Are people who hate Zelda II a bunch of pussies who couldn't handle combat that was more complex

People hate it, because it's SHIT. Even the developers hated it.

>>15633764

>the least Zelda-like game and the worst game in the series

>best entry

Never go full contrarian. The best 2D Zelda games are A Link to the Past and Minish Cap. And that's a fact.

>>15633768

title theme's cracking too

>>15633804

>least Zelda-like

You say that like it's a bad thing or something.

Top-down Zelda gameplay is frankly boring as fuck.

>>15633260

>tfw grew up on bargain bin NES sequels

I really wish they had kept up the habit of making every sequel in a different play style, instead of just falling back on all this retarded capeshit tier parallel universe crap or whatever it is.

I enjoy Zelda II more than the first game since there is more interaction with the environment and the combat is more engaging, but I hate RPG mechanics so I still dropped it. If I'm not having fun with repetitive bullshit (whether it be grinding for better stats or just trying to beat a game severely underleveled), then I drop it and find a game that doesn't have that.

>>15633804

>People hate it, because it's SHIT. Even the developers hated it.

Anon, it sounds like you are the one that is shit.

>>15633804

>least Zelda-like

>when there were only two Zelda games when it came out

Why does someone as retarded as yourself bother posting in the first place?

>>15633294

>Sorcerian

Good taste. Sorcerian is the pinnacle of the side-scrolling RPG genre.

>>15633260

I agree because last time I played it I got my ass handed to me and realized that all my years dismissing it were basically because I needed to git gud.

>>15633313

Thanks for the new meme, friend.

If you dislike Borderlands you were just too shit to handle the randomized guns.

If you dislike Gone Homo you were just too stupid to handle the "puzzles".

This notion that games can't be bad and that the only reason anyone could dislike them is that they're bad at playing them is fucking retarded. If you multiply all enemy damage and enemy health by ten and halve the player's movement speed, would Borderlands 2 become a good game? It would, after all, be pretty hard that way since you have no proper way to avoid being shot.

>>15634772

You could try and argue what you think is wrong with Zelda II. Such reasoning may not apply to every game, but it seems to fit why most Zelda fans dislike Zelda II. Most couldn't get the hammer and never picked the game up again. Some probably couldn't even beat the first palace, died three times, found out that you go back to the beginning, and quit.

>>15633260

Nice persecution complex.

>>15635466

I watched it again recently and made some reaction images from it.

>>15634807

The first borderlands game was ok. I played through it to the end but fuck the last quarter.

but seriously, i love zelda 2. I wouldnt rank it high as a zelda game but it is close to being the best nes game on the console

>>15633313

But X on the Switch is lie anon.

>>15636141

You got it backwards. I insulted fags that don't like Zelda II.

>>15633627

You could also down thrust and up thrust.

I guess cryptic bullshit (like the Mirror), tedious grinding, and having to fuck your way through Death Mountain far earlier in the game than you should have to for a stupid difficulty curve aren't for everybody.

I love the game, but there's definitely some bullshit in there worth hating.

>>15633456

>>15633452

There's a screen where you have to use a recorder where there are three bushes to make a dungeon appear. I think there was an old man or old lady that gave you a hint for it, but it was in fact cryptic as all fuck. Another cryptic part was the moblin at Death Mountain who said "grumble grumble" and you had to throw a fucking shank of meat at to continue. The meat you can only find by burning a hidden bush to reveal a shop underground on the opposite fucking side of the overworld.

I love these games, but there was definitely some bullshit that you just had to burn hours pixel hunting or buy a guide or beg friends to tell you how they beat it.

>>15633469

sauce?

>>15641759

>Another cryptic part was the moblin at Death Mountain who said "grumble grumble" and you had to throw a fucking shank of meat at to continue.

That's Zelda 1. Zelda II doesn't have any meat. Also in Zelda II it is three rocks that ere obviously arranged, have a NPC clue nearby, and you only have so many items to try out on them.

Zelda II is far less cryptic than Zelda 1.

>>15634579

>>when there were only two Zelda games when it came out

It's not 1990 anymore.

>>15635741

Maybe, but I'm not wrong.

>>15643018

>its okay to guage predecessors by their sequels

Makes sense. You would need this kind of retarded attitude to avoid cognitive dissonance since Zelda II has more in common with LoZ than about half of the sequels.

>>15633260

>more complex than move around and use item/swing sword?

Zelda 2 is move around and swing sword with no usable items.

>nintoddlers will defend this

>>15643598

>no usable items

No, but it has usable magic.

>>15633260

My biggest complaint is the mediocre graphics. His sword looks stumpy and stupid. Plus he looks like a homo in a skirt thrusting his big flesh colored penis sword.

>>15643669

Magic that can only be used from the menu. Whereas most other Zelda games have you equip items in the menu and use them on the fly.

I've never played a single Zelda game, is Zelda 2 a good place to start or is it the Dark Souls of Zelda? Would I be better off starting out with the recent Skyrim clone Zelda game instead?

>>15643730

Both of those are very different from typical Zelda games.

>is it the Dark Souls of Zelda?

You're forced to level up when you gain enough exp, the only checkpoints are at dungeon entrances, and there's no weapon varety.

>>15643792

Is there such a thing as a typical Zelda game? They all seem to be doing pretty different things in each iteration.

>>15643707

>magic that can only be used from the menu

It is selected from the menu. Select casts it outside of the menu. Several the spells have a continous effect on screen, such as shooting fire from your sword, jumping higher, flying around, or having defense doubled.

>most other Zelda games have you equip items in the meny and use them on the fly

So what? It isn't easy enough for you unless you can spam some item ability repeatedly?

>>15642698

literally one saucenao will give you the answer

>>15633804

Minish Cap >>>>>>>>>> ALTTP though.

>>15633260

I bought LoZ 2 because I loved LoZ 1. LoZ 2 was insanely disappointing because it was nothing like the game I loved and wanted to play. Link to the Past is a proper sequel to the original.

>>15648135

>nothing like

That's a lie though.

Zelda II was my favorite because of the side scrolling

>>15633260

I'm gonna go with yes, although the game does have a few "what the fuck do I do, where the fuck do I go" moments.

I'm not sure the combat was more complex so much as you were just abusing the fuck out of some hitboxes to make enemies beatable.

>>15648705

Skip to 3:40-3:54. You didn't get anything like that in Zelda 1. The either blocked by facing an attack that could be blocked or moved out of the way.

>>15633260

I think that is actually the case, I loved playing zelda 2, even though my first experience with it was when I was around 16. It might be nostalgia, but I don't think that really exists at that age, especially when I was critically thinking about games before that even. The whole game feels a lot better than zelda 1 in my opinion, and the fact that games didn't inherit the real-time combat until much, much later is kinda telling of how hard the game was for people.

>>15648275

Don't forget how minish cap had game breaking glitches with the medallion matchups that made getting 100% items impossible without a guide to avoid matching certain medals

>>15649119

>You didn't get anything like that in Zelda 1. The either blocked by facing an attack that could be blocked or moved out of the way.

Unless you were fighting an enemy and some other enemy attacked you from the side or behind with a projectile?

In Zelda 1 manouvering was much better, you could go to any of the four directions and attack enemies from the behind for example.

In Zelda 2 you just mostly mashed the sword button and changed the altitude of your shield guard/attack.

>>15649328

Avoiding or circling around slow enemies in Zelda 1 doesn't really take much effort or planning. A room full of darknuts is about the most challenge you will get, and I would argue facing the bird warriors (whatever they are called) in the great palace that jump and throw projectiles is harder than that.

>>15649364

>Avoiding or circling around slow enemies in Zelda 1 doesn't really take much effort or planning.

Unless there are lots of them in a small room. Lynels were a bitch no matter what. Also still more complex than Zelda 2.

>>15649376

How is it more complex? You are trading movement in four flat directions vs movement in two horizontal and two vertical. I like Zelda 1, it has great exploration and item usage, but the combat in it isn't better than Zelda 2's.

>>15649376

>more complex

>dark souls combat without a roll, heal, or directional control except facing the direction you are moving towards.

>enemies can change direction at will, making fighting darknuts a mixed bag of whether you could hit them or start to take damage

Zelda 2's combat system on the other hand

>sidescroller, so instead of enemies you can circle strafe, you are fighting them headlong

>you have to chose the box you want to hit them in, and plan out if they will attack you, since darknuts could attack and block in two different boxes, and some enemies will do the same type of thing, so closing in on them becomes the fight.

>>15649433

Because due to the maneuvering enabled by the flat directions you are actually able to fight against multiple enemies in the same screen.

In Zelda 2 you could only succesfully fight against one, maybe two enemies at once on screen due to movement being limited to the vertical dimension.

>>15649528

>dark souls combat without a roll,

You can dodge well enough without a roll.

>heal,

What are hearts and potions?

>or directional control except facing the direction you are moving towards.

And this differs from Zelda 2 how?

>enemies can change direction at will, making fighting darknuts a mixed bag of whether you could hit them or start to take damage

Link moves faster than darknuts. Git gud and you'll manage to get out of the way.

>sidescroller, so instead of enemies you can circle strafe, you are fighting them headlong

So complex.

>you have to chose the box you want to hit them in, and plan out if they will attack you, since darknuts could attack and block in two different boxes, and some enemies will do the same type of thing, so closing in on them becomes the fight.

Yes, one darknut at a time. And whooping two hitboxes? Wow. In Zelda 1 you usually had to worry about six to eight hitboxes at the same time and they would all attack you as well.

>>15649528

>MW4 combat

>enemies block straight and above, have to manipulate them into false blocks

>can sword bounce on them, chaining together kills or scoring multiple hits

>equipping for magic hits can make fights more exciting and risk/reward centric

>can use pepelogoo to soar above enemies for another tactical advantage

>no casual exp system, reliant on skill and equipment

>>15653151

Combat is just tedious in unreal because it's mostly skaarj spam and after fighting two at a time they have no more surprises

>>15653178

>second pic

Even worse than the original artstyle.

>>15653070

>link moves faster than darknuts

changing direction from facing forward to back is instant, you can get behind them and then eat shit immediately.

>>15653340

You don't have to touch the darknuts to hit them, if you hit them with your sword from far enough when they turn back you have enough time to move aside.

Go to 6:33:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhuIv1A4YbY

Look at that reach. And look how darknuts, like all enemies in Zelda 1, move along the tiles. You don't. You can hit them from a diagonal position in relation to the tile on which the targeted darknut is.

Now, go to 9:10

See how even after you hit them head-on you still have enough time to move out of the way.

>>15633445

>tedium

>game takes 4 hours to beat

>even less on Newgame+ starting out with all magic and all LVL8

git gud son

>>15633458

Bomb bowling is more complex than zelda-2-combat.

Doesn't make it good though.

>>15633700

>pretentious

>likes faxanadu over zelda2

>>15633356

>he doesn't know how to do a crouching jump stab to slip the sword into an iron knuckle's visor just above their shield's high guard

>he doesn't know how to jackhammer the downthrust

>>15641746

>tedious grinding,

I used to think that, then I realized if you level nothing but attack through the first dungeon, jump over the statue at the end, re-do the first dungeon, and THEN get the statue that fills up your xp to the next level (which should be like 3000 xp if you did it right) you never need to grind again. Even death mountain becomes a breeze with 5 atk and a bunch of easy life levelups.