362d9f No.15630288
The game started out with the big promise of bringing back classical C&C-style RTS gameplay to a market flooded with anything but that. Then it got released, died, tried to get new attention by releasing a free (I think?) bonus race, and died again.
What baffled me is that, when I played it, I found nothing really much to complain about and the campaign seemed reasonably well done, but I still could not be arsed to either buy or even just pirate it. And the thing is, I don't even know why. It just felt - I don't know. Lackluster might describe it, but I almost feel bad for calling the game that.
So, if another else might have happened to play this stillbirth, why did Grey Goo go tits up so quickly after launch? Is it just that the big bulk which used to be RTS players back in the day nowadays suck MOBA cock? A lack of marketing? Or simply poor game design?
a6bba4 No.15630297
>>15630288
The name. It's fuckin stupid.
261799 No.15630526
>What baffled me is that, when I played it, I found nothing really much to complain about and the campaign seemed reasonably well done, but I still could not be arsed to either buy or even just pirate it.
That was it. You already know what is wrong with it. You want more than a good single player campaign, you want a community of casual players and the competitive players to start playing it, so you can like the game with them. You want the media to be filled with this thing you like. You are a sheep not liking to be a part of a small group eating the good grass you found, while a huge noisy herd is eating the bland shit on the other hill.
Seriously though, I think this will be one of those RTS games that get a boost years later, when enough RTS players get bored of the bland grass. It only takes for a group of really competitive "not-pro" players, to start making small tournaments, and other people will come, once they see how this game can be good 1v1 and, in this case, extremely fun 2v2. That's what I hope, at least. Game is good and fun, but sometimes, that's not enough.
1a64fd No.15630543
>>15630297
It works on multiple levels but probably not in the way the developers intended.
287b8d No.15630553
>>15630288
>Expensive
>High requirements
>Intentionally bland design - one that couldn't justify the above 2.
And the poor netcode + 4 player max on maps couldn't keep our rts group over here running. A shame.
e7a5af No.15630555
>>15630543
>>15630297
It's a common name for self-replicating nanobots to reproduce exponentially and cover the planet in themselves and drown out all life. What fucking other meaning could it have?
2e6244 No.15630562
>>15630288
RTS is an inherently shitty genre for competitive play.
00f9f0 No.15630570
>What went wrong?
Everything? It has no personality, no character, nothing. Planetary Annihilation fails for a similar reason. Even if you take away all the other problems, in the end of the day it's still a brown mess.
461ba2 No.15630583
I actually bought and played it online around release. It was fun but horribly balanced naturally. Their approach to balance turned the game into a spamfest of cheap units I couldn't handle or enjoy. I still fondly remember teleporting tanks all over as my main strategy before they nerfed the shit out of teleporters.
The other problem was lack of players. You can argue "sheep" for mainstream appeal but that doesn't change the fact that a multiplayer game requires people to play with.
6a3b99 No.15630584
>>15630288
>>15630553
Its bland, like really bland.
f3cf1a No.15630587
>>15630288
There was nothing that was lurched out as 'cool' and 'interesting' to draw people in. Factions looked and sounded bland. I don't know how the game controlled, but if it had pathing that lead to units bumping into each other its doomed to go nowhere. Look at some of the most well loved RTS games.
>SupCom was huge because of its scope and scale being absolutely ridiculous and experimentals being really cool
>Red Alert 2 and Brood War have very distinct factions and memorable units, Tesla Coils, Mirage Tanks, Kirov, Prism Towers, Siege Tanks, basically entire Zerg faction, Zealots, High Templars, Archons, Carriers
>Age of Empires 2 has pristine control
1a64fd No.15630588
>>15630555
You really can't imagine a situation where someone looks on steam, sees yet another 3 faction space RTS and laughs at how the game had the gumption to call itself "Grey Goo" unironically?
e7a5af No.15630595
>>15630588
I look at the title and understand it to be about sci-fi with an emphasis on robots. It's a name that anyone with a small amount of scifi knowledge would immediately get, and I understand it probably isn't normalfag friendly, but I'm saying I get what they were going for
287b8d No.15630603
So now that we are talking RTS, is this worth the time waste ?
1393fa No.15630614
1.Lack of advertising. I hadn't heard of the game until a few threads were made here, and by then it had already flopped.
2.RTS was kinda just curb stomped by assfaggots. Without a playerbase to generate hype/play with the only reason to buy it would be if it had a really hefty singleplayer campaign.
3.The name is very silly. I mean i got it, hell i've always wanted a game where you play as a grey goo apocalypse, but normalfags probably just laughed at it and moved on.
tl;dr: game is fine but they fucked up marketing and assfaggots kinda killed the rts genre dead.
f3cf1a No.15630617
>>15630614
RTS died because of consoles, anon.
362d9f No.15630627
>>15630603
Do I see that right, or do the factions consist of Lizardmen, Lizardmen, and Lizardmen?
1a64fd No.15630628
>>15630617
You're retarded.
23647b No.15630644
>>15630288
Honestly
>>15630553
Summarizes it perfectly. It would be easy to forgive it's other sins but the lag and poor optimization just ruined it. They also kind of half-assed the shroud and the AI was either completely retarded or grossly over competent with no rhyme or reason.
b2e96c No.15630645
Everything about it just sounded really boring and generic so I haven't even tried it. Why should I? Supcom has a massive amount of units, CoH has a capturing system and RA has fun, memorable units. There is no hook. Also Grey Goo? More like GAY Goo lmao
287b8d No.15630655
>>15630627
The idiots put a mirror match in the trailer.
Apparently there are barbarians, druids riding lizzards and shaman guys.
790344 No.15630660
>>15630603
>deadicated servers with leaderboards
Dead on arrival.
>>15630627
It looks like factions of caveman, and dinosaurs.
f3cf1a No.15630661
>>15630628
>7th gen consoles are hugely popular
>Try to put Red Alert 3, SupCom 2 etc onto them
>Have to fuck them up to get them there
>They do badly
>Industry realizes it can't put RTS games on consoles which are doing really fucking well and gives up on the genre
Sure, not the only contributing factor, but definitely a large one. Starcraft 2 only doing average was also a big factor.
929e72 No.15630665
I didn't even know it was an actual game, I saw the title and thought it's some sort of nasal simulator and shit.
287b8d No.15630673
>>15630297
>>15630645
This is the same shit as the people who shat on dirty bomb:
>scientific concept
>refers to a bomb that contaminates the area with radioactive material
>people laugh at the game named after it
>because lul dirty.
>In this case it's just lul goo.
You guys are full max retards.
790344 No.15630680
>>15630673
The other anon makes a good point though. Why should we play this as opposed to other RTS games like supreme commander, AoE, mythology, command and conquer, and red alert?
1d51ef No.15630686
>>15630673
I never played dirty bomb because it looked like unbalanced p2w trash and yet another class shooter that doesn't even stand up to golden days TF2.
261799 No.15630694
>>15630543
>>15630555
Yes, "gray goo" is a well known sci-fi consept. If you are over 20 and under 90, and like sci-fi, you know "the gray goo scenario." And we have something similar in works even in real life now, in the depths of nanocarbontube self-assembly in inorganic materials chemistry. Stop replying to trolls.
>>15630553
Poor netcode was a big problem, but I don't think it still is? When was the last time any of us played the game? Max 4 players is terrible, but it's the minimum needed. Who even plays 3v3?
>>15630570
>It has no personality, no character, nothing. Planetary Annihilation fails for a similar reason.
True, but personality or character are not needed to make a good RTS game, and I cannot say anything about PA or PA:Titans, because I only played them for a few matches. They failed to lure 20-30% of RTS players from other games to their game, sure, but that's just misguided expectations. And the fucking bugs that crash the game all the time. Fucking shit, why are they so random?
b2e96c No.15630711
>>15630673
I just wanted to make a shitty joke, I don't mind the name.
f3cf1a No.15630713
>>15630694
>personality or character are not needed to make a good RTS game
Uh, depends what RTS game you're comparing to?
The only game I would arguably say doesn't have 'personality or character' that does exceptionally well is Age of Empires 2, and that's only because its historical based, doesn't use cinematics and all the factions play roughly the same. But the game has plenty of personality in voice work, and character in the visuals.
287b8d No.15630715
>>15630680
Even the best titles of modern time like battlefleet gothic cannot stand up to Supreme Commander. But we cannot play supcomm forever.
>>15630686
But that is the point, there are legitimate reasons to dislike grey goo and dirty bomb, yet dislike because of the name is probably the one that comes off as infantile.
348661 No.15630735
>>15630288
one only got so much time of the day to play something
might as well to the popular thingy as long as ones interest for that thingy lasts
cbe58e No.15630743
>>15630526
>while a huge noisy herd is eating the bland shit on the other hill
I know it's not really the point but did you find the one spot on the meadow where the grass is spiced with sazon? Grass in some spots is more bland than other grass? What the fuck is this analogy?
083ae1 No.15630763
>>15630555
Even the guy who came up with the concept originally says he wish he came up with a better name for it.
e7a5af No.15630771
>>15630763
Just because an author says something doesn't make it canon
0a7596 No.15630808
the micro managing got out of fucking hand late game
9486bf No.15630816
I can tell you the opinion of a semi-casual player.
By that I mean I'm too slow/stupid to pull of advanced strategies or react to my oponents, but I know the basics of scouting, econ and trying to counter enemy units.
The one thing that went wrong is the same thing that doomed DoW III. Albeit, it was doomed because the only good bits of the campaign were Gorgutz and his posse, and lol 3 factions, lmao.
When you start a match, shit is rather easy and simple. You want resources, you want them now. You want to expand, but bootstrap troop production. 1 or 2 minutes in, you start spamming low-tier troops as much as your economy lets you or save up for some teching. Your initial troops keep you safe from early harassement and then you're free to keep teching and scouting.
This is where the first clusterfuck hits you.
In a matter of 5 minutes, you're bombarded with a lot of diferent units that are incrediebly specific in their function. Out of the 9-12 units you can produce, only 3 are "general all-rounders", the rest are incredible good at one thing/use one terrain feature really well and will perform horribly in any other circunstance.
This means most players will try to balance troop production, end up with a mixed bag of units and try to deathball with it with terrible results. The resources you sank into those detectors will feel like a waste because your enemy didn't make invisble units, the mines you placed never go off because the enemy goes around and your expensive artillery gets blown up by air raids because you spent all your resources in artillery, not anti-air.
This is when most players will panic, make lots of mistakes and they'll lose the game in a minute or two. Things like mass producing one type of units, overloading their economy into a crawl, and over committing into attacks.
So you can rule out 40% of the players right here, they quit at this part. They just can't deal with micro combined with production queue choices (that require proper scouting and knowing the game back and forth).
9486bf No.15630817
>>15630816
The remaining 60% will however look at their games and learn how each unit works, what they do best, what they don't. This is where the second clusterfuck hits. It's rather easy to formulate a strategy. You choose 2-3 techs, 4 differnt units for your strat, look at the map to see how to apply and then you execute a build order that let's you pull it off in the shortest amount of time. The only problem is: so is your oponent doing. And when you two collide, your plan goes to hell in an handbasket. Or not. And this is when this game and DoW III lost me entirely.
I look back to the first DoW or Age of Empires/Mythology and what I see is a bunch of units that did many things similar to each other and had statistical differences that required some micro. You could formulate a strategy, but the game didn't revolve around it: it was about map control and having more dudes than the other guy.
The best example is still Age of Mythology. Each God had their own strategy associated. If you knew the other guy had shifting sands, you already knew what to expect. But the game also had a very simple counter system. Myth units beat normal units, normal units beat Heroes and Heroes beat Myth units. This triangle was easy to grasp, it was easy to micro around it, and it was given depth with diferent myth units/Titans/diferent heroes without making it a Rock/Paper/Scissors game.
Sure, your enemy has 2 Pharaos that will nuke your Titan, but you can flank him with cavalry while he's engaged with your cyclops first. Tactics were that simple because simple = effective.
When I look at modern RTS, I see a fucking rock/paper/scissors game where both players pick their hand 5 minutes in, keep it hidden for 10 minutes and then finnaly reveal it.
You went with "small 10 units to distract from stealth infiltrators to kill his workers"? Too bad, he went with "early anti-air with detection + anti-infantry. You went with "transports to land behind him while arrtillery gets vision from above hill"? Too bad, he went with "cavalry/tanks fast enough to cut off your arty while mass producing cheap infantry directly in his base".
The highest tier of RTS a casual can aspire to achieve revolves around this. Looking at your faction, picking a strategy and hoping your enemy is either new (no strategy) or picked one yours counters.
Now, I said I was semi-casual because I can also look at the game and see that the actual High-Skill, High-Octane, micro-intensive gameplay will let players do amazing things, pull and switch strategies on the fly and this game has the potential to be a lot more fluid and unpredictable than Starcraft. Yet, without the core casual players, why would the Pro's play it? Noone's gonna stream it because noone will watch it. It's a very fun game with a campaign I throughly enjoyed and had fun skirmishes with friends, but it will never amount to more than that because it tried to appeal to casuals and Pro's at the same time, something a lot of games try and end up dying for.
287b8d No.15630819
>>15630808
The entire micromanagement boiled down to move army, position artillery. That's it unless you played the bomb detector build for the beta.
8b6289 No.15630821
Lots went wrong.
>Initial pricepoint too high for a title meant to establish their entry into a sparse genre.
Sell cheap, sell many, playerbase is more important than anything else for RTS.
>Aesthetic fails to meet player expectations & the game still runs poorly.
People don't want plastic, they want metal. Less pastels and fades and more hard colors and shiny bits reminiscent of old isometric sprites. Sludge should look like actual sludge. Contemporary shaders are shit and counterproductive, and your game runs like ass if you crimp them straight out of the box. Don't do it.
If you're going to try to go for "every faction is really different!" make sure they actually look really different.
>Weak online functionality.
Starcraft's version of Battlenet set the stage for the bare minimum of what a "good RTS multplayer" platform needed to have and the game's netcode was worse than one designed nearly two decades ago. I don't know how they managed to fuck this up so hard. Then again, not even Blizzard meets those standards anymore, so maybe it was just lightning in a bottle.
>Incredibly weak mapmaking tools and customizability.
The ability to distribute custom maps and scenarios is vital to the longevity of the game and Grey Goo 100% drops the ball. You can't even do real triggers- if you want to even try you have to do unit overflows for Christ's sake.
>They didn't even try to ham the story up.
Self explanatory.
9486bf No.15630851
>>15630817
For an example of a game that I think was the best RTS I ever played and applied the "fight for terrain control/have more dudes than the other guy", look at Multiwinia.
That game was the perfect RTS for me.
You didn't need a lot of micro. In fact, with half a dozen clicks, you had 150 units grouped in a pincer formation ready to flank a fortified position while a transport deployed a sneak attack behind enemy lines. It was easy to learn, easy to play and easy to feel like your strategic skills matter more than "my build order beats your build order".
You could keep the game fun and unpredictable with random box drops and assorted events, or you could make it competitive by disabling all the random stuff (or making it constant and fair for both players).
Several diferent maps, several diferent types of match, many diferent units with unique capabilities and all of this was controlled with so little micro, it was effortless to react to your oponent.
I think that's my major grip with modern RTS.
It's a genre that by design is hard to learn. There's many things to explore and discover, many decisions to be made. But then on top of this, it's hard to play as well. And by "hard" I don't mean "challenging". I mean hard as in "headbutting a wall" hard.
Platformers are easy to learn, hard to play.
4X/Grand Strategy games are hard to learn, easy to play
Shooters are easy to learn, hard to play.
RPG's are hard to learn, easy to play.
The only genre that's harder on both acounts are RTS.
261799 No.15630860
>>15630743
It's the simplest possible analogy I could think of. People like to form groups, we are stronger that way.
Sometimes people go exploring. They might find something better, but feel vulnerable without the large group. Sometimes belonging to a group is powerful enough force to move the explorers back to the large groups and eat the shit grass, just because it's safer.
I don't know. It's a good analogy though.
287b8d No.15630880
>>15630860
The community thing is correct, but with every company waging war on mods, communities are not coming back to RTS.
cbe58e No.15630885
>>15630860
I'm sorry I just couldn't help but imagine some sheep wandering off to the empty end of the pen and finding some inexplicably delicious patch of grass and laughing at all the other sheep as they eat their bullshit grass like a bunch of assholes. I mean, it's grass. It's probably one of the most bland things out there. Dogs eat it when they want to throw up.
f3cf1a No.15630902
>>15630851
I've always said a good RTS thrives off of its campaign.
A campaign is a good place to introduce and teach the uses of units, let players experiment with what's good and what's not. A playground before serious town.
8a7243 No.15630913
>>15630902
I agree. For example, I think its one of the biggest reasons that SC2 flopped. It's hard to enjoy the multiplayer when the context is just all so stupid with bad romance subplots, noble savage talking zerg, and retarded star child nonsense.
cbe58e No.15630919
>>15630913
>noble savage talking zerg
Did they do to the zerg what they did to the orcs in WC3. I was already done with Blizzard by the time SC2 came out.
261799 No.15630950
>>15630816
>>15630817
>>15630851
Holy shit Anon, those are some of the best posts I've seen.
RTS genre has always been a difficult genre to quantify, but you nailed it. Fucking amazing job anon.
>>15630885
One person got the "joke". It's still just sheep eating grass, delicious or stale.
f3cf1a No.15630960
>>15630913
Naw they fucked up multiplayer so bad with the inclusion of Reapers. They warped the balance of the game and made the team normally defensive early on the most aggressive.
There's a difference losing to a zergling rush because you didn't wall or you didn't scout and got overwhelmed, and
>This unit jumped up almost any wall of my base, outran my units which it deals more damage to and killed 6 workers
And then they gave it grenades and the ability to heal out of combat, like it needed to be more relevant.
f50889 No.15630965
bad timing (starcraft 2 was a thing at that time), bad name (grey goo? really?), bad release (something wrong with the cracked isos and shitty drm as i recall) plus bad luck.
if they released it now, with a different name it would likely sell well, was looking for a decent c&c clone recently but couldn't find anything worthwhile.
might as well put the thing on gog and stop fucking around with drm altogether, then it might even sell them some.
6a3b99 No.15631044
>>15630965
The name isn't bad, its a sci-fi term, but I did get it confused with "World of Goo."
f50889 No.15631086
the name is fucking garbage, fpbp.
9486bf No.15631120
>>15631086
>>15630965
As much as I like the name, and Grey Goo scenarios in stories, I gotta agree.
"Beta Protocol" would be a better name, considering the campaign and the fact most of your initial plans fail in skirmishes so you gotta have a plan B ready at anytime.
>>15630950
Thanks, but I'm not a pro at RTS. Heck, I'm not a pro at anything, I play too many genres to master anyone of them.
I just remember multiwinia fondly, because when RTS started copying the same 2-3 formulas over and over again, something came out that not only had really great lore (pick up Darwinia before multiwinia, it's excelent) it had such a wonderfully simple control scheme while still maintaining a depth of strategy that other RTS attempted to do with Micro. I was never a fan of Micro in games with a pop cap over 10. DoW II had nice micro, but you had 5-6 squads most of the time.
Micro wins fights.
Macro wins the war.
261799 No.15631192
>>15631120
>Thanks, but I'm not a pro at RTS.
I did not mean you are a pro, but you just made a good solid argument about why and how RTS games work.
I was just trying to make a point about Gray Goo thread not being shit just because literally no one is playing it, but cross linking it is dumb.
I don't know. Pic. is a headpat.
362d9f No.15631197
>>15631120
>Beta Protocol
Cue the fedora memes.
>>15630919
Kerrigan is the prime problem. The Zerg still first and foremost have the primary directive of genetic self-improvement by absorbing other species (and the Protoss specifically), but then someone had the bright idea of turnining Kerrigan back into a human while still having her retain control of the swarm (as opposed to, say, Kerrigan turning back human while the spawn shits out a new Overmind because its little experiment failed).
But basically, yeah. Zerg and Protoss and Humans fighting against Chaos Zerg and Chaos Protoss and Chaos Humans and the Burning Legio-, I mean the Xel'Naga. It's downright pitiable when you consider that Broodwar still had a plot where the three races worked together, and Kerrigan still was enough of a queen bitch to screw over her former allies once the primary threat in the form of the UED was done with.
f3cf1a No.15631212
>>15631197
Zerg story should have been about Stukov learning he can tap into the Zerg after breaking out of scientific research facility.
1e6699 No.15631328
>No cool music
>grey goo is not an enticing or interesting title, whereas "Red Alert" immediately provokes imagery associated with the color red and the word "alert."
>No dynamism to the characters - everything feels like boring as fuck textbook scifi
>Units boring as fuck, voice actors phoned in, animators phoned in, art directors phoned in
I really tried to like it, I just couldn't. Glad I pirated.
cbe58e No.15631428
>>15631197
So who summoned the Xel'Naga? And for how many thousand years was he imprisoned underground by the Night Elves?
8a8bda No.15631484
>>15630288
I don't like the fact that there's no focus for micro and the macro play gets really bland after a while.
There's really no room for interesting build orders when the tech tree is built like a stick with a few buds coming out of it.
The three races (haven't played the fourth, only blasted through the campaign way before the content update) and the way how each of them play distinctively from one another is really fun. A major issue with it is that it doesn't go farther with it.
Another problem is the resources, or lack of it. When you're only vying for one type of resource and nothing else it basically just becomes a small game of capture the point. If units/tech were locked off and can only be attained by gathering another type of resource it'd make the game a lot more whole because you'd fix the problem of having a really boring single resource point/spend system.
The campaign was fun for what it's worth, liked the story, just needs more content.
There's a lot more gripes that I have with the game but I'd need to play through it again to remind myself.
349a50 No.15631489
>>15630288
it was a shitty game
8a8bda No.15631505
>>15631328
>>15631489
this
needed more soul and content.
000000 No.15631513
>current year +
>MUH CYBERFART RTS! KILL GOOKCRAFT2!
>no SP content, and poor netcode
>What went wrong?
I wonder. Maybe it's the name?
136cd1 No.15631576
>>15631505
They needed the fucking CnC license and the old team before they got ruthlessly raped and scattered by EA in 1998.
8a7243 No.15631623
>>15631328
>No cool music
Seriously, what was the point of getting Klepacki to do the soundtrack if he was just going to phone it in? Though I'd chalk most of the problem up to the game having no real aesthetic hook he could work off of.
f86c3c No.15631632
how the fuck does goo work
somehow you have to spam units while being fucked in the economy
also the big headed quadruped things are useless
1e0515 No.15631648
>>15631632
"Big headed quadrupeds" describes over half the goo units, with most of the others being blobs.
If you mean their most basic unit, the drover, note that they have an Area Effect attack, higher speed than other faction ground units, and the ability to shoot and move.
136cd1 No.15631681
>>15631623
The guy can make industrial heavy metal songs and remixes, that's the hook with Red Alert's Cold War and Tiberian Dawn's 90's Desert War/Bosnian War to Tiberian Sun's mid Sci-Fi/Wasteland setting. It's sadder that 8-bit Armies has a better soundtrack.
261799 No.15631704
>>15631197
The way I see this is that Blizzard is the problem. And I mean this seriously, they don't give a fuck about any of any of their licensed characters or story lines. ActBliz. does extensive marketing research and in-group research. Anything this company does is going to be general boring shit to us, who want more. But it will be the exact super heroin to those who it is aimed at. Thats it.
Remember the real money auction in D3!
217cb1 No.15631724
>>15630913
>The amount of rape that happened to zerg in their entirety
>This stems almost completely from Kerrigan being a basic bipolar bitch
>This is supposed to be a upgrade to several levels of brain zerg controlling the zerg systematically and purging eachother if they do too shit of a job
I fucking hate it.
a33d88 No.15631790
Summed up it's pretty simple
>despite some faction differences, factions are fairly mirrored with cheap infantry, anti-vehicle, tank, etc
>units within factions all look the same so it's impossible to tell them apart when they cluster up
>put money into good cgi then made a lackluster campaign that you couldn't care about and only have 5 missions per faction
>style ended up looking too much like SC2 drawing unfavorable comparisons and attention
to top it off, the game is just kinda soulless, it feels phoned in like they gathered a bunch of scifi concepts and mashed them together
c4b3cf No.15634339
>>15631648
I think he is talking about one of the Goo's lategame units that I think is supposed to tank but I never found it useful either.
3d71a1 No.15634376
>>15630288
all the grey goo formations ended up blobing together
93e197 No.15634428
>>15630694
hahahahaha these 2 cant be the same game, can it? lmfao
60c262 No.15634530
>>15630297
>>15631086
>>15631328
Name's ok, don't know what issue you have with it. It's a neat sci-fi term. Do you prefer Lem's NECROSPHERE?
>>15630614
>lack of advertising
That one's weird, GG sold over 350k on Steam and that's not that bad by RTS standards. How come "nobody played it", if it's so popular? I guess the fact that nobody talked about it made the players feel more isolated than they really were. Or there were just pushing it out for tree fiddy every now and then, or in bundles.
>>15630617
>>15630661
Consoles were a big thing since the NES and it didn't affect RTS popularity. I don't know if it was just the (((suits))) realising RTS simply isn't a profitable genre like FPS or whatever, or if simply nobody really knows how to RTS well and everybody's wandering in the dark.
>>15630680
This is a similar situation to Doom and I'm mad that you are not wrong at all.
>>15630965
>(starcraft 2 was a thing at that time)
In 2015, 8 months before LotV, 2 years after HotS?
>>15631120
You may not be pro, but you have identified an important issue. Hard counter system means that doing suboptimal strategy is never worth it, so you have to readjust it. But then the enemy does so. Then you, then him, then you, then him… The point is that in this situation, it's not worth to fudge a move, to sacrifice some units, because you'll almost certainly be worse off than the enemy. I guess people are annoyed when their mistake wasn't "you sent too few units to capture X", but "you sent wrong units to capture X", especially since the second case also results in harming the enemy much less. I think hard counters could work if units were customisable on the go, so you could quickly repurpose wrong units into correct ones.
2488e1 No.15634588
>>15630694
>I cannot say anything about PA or PA:Titans, because I only played them for a few matches.
It's not a god like rts game, but it's good. There are lot of different strategies, you are always on the edge because you constantly have to expand and scout to see what your enemy is up to. The only thing I dislike is that it's mostly short matches. It's too easy to snip the enemy commander.
The issue with the game is that everything looks sameish and nothing stands out. Red Alert 2 had Apocalypse Tank, these fucking Rocket Launcher trucks and bad ass Kirov. Those are units that stick around. You remember them. And this is missing in modern rts games. They have no cool units.
a91c97 No.15635522
>>15630297
>>15630555
>>15630588
>>15630595
>>15630673
>>15630715
The name brings up an interesting question. At what point as a game developer should you change a "smart" name for your game when it's named after something that vast amount of normalfags would have never heard of before and may end up deterring them from the final product?
Is it always better to go with a simple and easy to understand (possibly generic) name for the mass audience or have a more clever name that less people will understand the meaning of?
5dcac6 No.15635574
Balance was absolutely fucked when it was released. Beta and Alpha could spam walls (that were both extremely cheap and had high hp) everywhere which forced games into an endless grind of destroying fucking walls. I ran into a few of those games in a row and quit forever. Also the Alpha bombers were OP as fuck too.
d9f8cc No.15635583
They dumbed the game down out of fear of making yet another RTS that's too hard to play for 99% of the player base, but churned out a game so sluggish and boring that they drove away even that 1%.
f3cf1a No.15635585
>>15635574
>Beta and Alpha
That's not seriously the faction names, right?
1a64fd No.15635589
>>15635522
In this case understanding the term just makes it more hilariously ironic considering the game feels like it was designed by a robot.
9118c6 No.15635603
>>15635522
>that vast amount of normalfags would have never heard of befor
Everyone has heard of the grey goo scenario if they read fake news since they do have a technology section. It's just not a good name, it's the kind of name you'd read on a low budget b movie that reuses the same public domain monster costume over and over again to try and trick you into thinking it's a cheesy horror movie.
5dcac6 No.15635628
>>15635585
iirc the humans are called Alpha, the alien race are called Beta, and the Goo is Goo.
2bd6aa No.15635746
>>15630694
>True, but personality or character are not needed to make a good RTS game
On the contrary, personality and character are incredibly important, because those are major contributors to faction identity, which makes or breaks the lasting impression of a game, as evidenced by the many Nod cultists who will be at my throat when I say that GDI is in the right.
febbc6 No.15635758
>>15635746
I always got the impression that Kane was slowly getting fed up with Nod, for a mastermind with plans within plans it's kind of weird how spiteful he is to his own faction.
43a00f No.15635822
>>15635758
Kane is a being that presumably is thousands of years old. Seeing your lackeys repeat the same mistakes and acts of ´betrayal towards you would make anyone weary.
febbc6 No.15635826
>>15635822
But why does he put the GDI in a good position?
9486bf No.15635833
>>15635628
>>15635585
No. The humans are simply humans.
The Beta do not call themselves that, the humans use that name because the Beta have trace humans of human DNA (but their DNA helix has 3 helixes instead of 2).
It just stuck, I guess.
They do call it Goo though, which is kinda dumb on some of the more serious cutscenes.
Like when Singleton sacrifices himself, and Lucy tells him to run away from "Teh Goooo!"
The newer faction, The Shroud actually have a semi-cool sounding name I guess. They're fun to play too.
>>15635583
>They dumbed the game down
I respectfully disagree.
The tech tree is very bare bones, that's the only thing I'd say you could consider dumbed down. But take a look at this: https://www.greybox.com/greygoo/en/info/
You can click on the diferent units and what not. Let's take this basic unit for instance:
https://www.greybox.com/greygoo/en/info/units/commando/
These pages were really well done and together with the in-game videos showcasing every unit and their application, it's very easy (albeit time consuming) to learn how each faction plays. They really tried to ease casual players into it, but on closer inspections, they retained a lot of detail and counters for the micro-heavy players.
The biggest problem with the game can also be gleaned from that page however. And the ironic part: it's not exclusive to this game, a lot of other RTS games do it, this one just lifted the veil for you to see.
Look at the "Strong against" section and the "weak against".
I've already made some long posts on this thread on why this is terrible game design and ends up burning players away from all skill-brackets but to repeat myself:
It's a gameof Rock-Paper-Scissors, where each player makes their pick 5 minutes after playing and keeps it hidden for the next 10 minutes. Then both players show what they picked, they clash and that's it.
The only times this doesn't happen is when you're talking about the top tier players, the skilled micro-masters. I'm talking about 10% (at best) of the player base of any game.
Videogames aren't just fun: they're also businesses and you can't support a large studio without the casual players. I'm talking people that play 8-20 matches in a week, not "phone-gamers".
9e57be No.15635838
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15630288
No Kane or Kane accessories.
9486bf No.15635850
>>15635833
One extra note about the tech tree:
I do not even consider it a "dumbing down" but more of a "reporpusing".
They ditched the traditional five-tiered "+20% attack" upgrades for a system that acomplishes a diferent thing. Again, on that Commando page I listed: one of the upgrades you can give them is to allow Commandos to explode on death. This is a counter against deathballs, especially against the Goo. However, if you're fighting the humans (or another Hand of Ruk) and your enemy realizes you have no anti-air, they'll start deploying a lot of airforces, that's when you apply the other upgrade that lets your mass of commandos to shoot down air units.
I can see the idea behind it: alter (if only slightly) how your faction plays and surprise the oponent with a pick he didn't expect.
However, only some of the upgrades are actually this "surprising", most of them just reinforce the role of a unit (like artillery leaving behind mines where they shoot). It's the kind of thing you do upgrade and the practical effect is still a "+20% attack" boring tech.
6a3b99 No.15635855
>>15635833
>"Strong against" section and the "weak against".
I've seen some ways how games try and work around a RPS meta, such as spammable units, flying units, mercenary units, technicals/spellcasters, or elite/hero units to mix things up. What do you think? Personally I think the small unit cap hurts grey goo but to field more units you'd need to change the scale of the map and of the bases.
6a3b99 No.15635859
>>15635855
that greentext fail wow
e7a5af No.15635903
>>15635855
I'm mixed. In SC1, you had Explosive damage, which dealt 75% vs medium and 50% versus small, and Concussive damage, which dealt 75% vs medium and 50% versus large units. It implicitly defined what units counter what (eg Dragoons are trash versus swarms of units but very good against fliers because most are large - meanwhile Vultures shine against workers and infantry, but fall off hard).
Meanwhile in SC2, you had some meme where units dealt extra damage versus specific types. It felt hard to figure out and remember what countered what.
I also tried AoM's counter system and it worked very well in my opinion. You'd have a triangle of triangle, and depending on what you opponent did, you had basically two ways to counter it. Maybe they went all archers. Well, you can either get Myth units to fuck them up, or get Cavalry. Your opponent can decide appropriately, depending on the races and even gods you've both picked. Cool beans. The only thing I didn't really get intuitively was how Atlantean infantry were only present as Counter-Infantry. Eg, swordsmen that beat swordsmen up
b5325b No.15635912
Boring and unattractive factions.
Where is Universe at War 2?
febbc6 No.15635914
>>15635855
>small unit cap
Small unit cap? Tiberium Goo has a unit cap? C&C95 only had a cap as a holdover from Dune II because of memory limitations. What the christ kind of game is this, did these guys even lurk hardcore fan arguments and debates about balance or did they read TV Tropes?
a33d88 No.15636068
>>15635914
>Tiberium Goo has a unit cap?
yeah, max was 200pop but faction superunits would take up to 70 of that
618569 No.15636069
>>15630288
Units didn't have any weigh to them. Moving, shooting, getting hit, etc.
It was eh, but the devs did put some effort into it.
Tridents are pure
>>15630297
It makes sense for the plot you retarded outlandah
618569 No.15636074
>>15635758
>I always got the impression that Kane was slowly getting fed up with Nod
Kane was fed up with Nod by the end of Tib Dawn. He was fed up with Earth and humanity in general long before that too.
e7a5af No.15636086
>>15636074
>>15635758
I only really followed the story in RA1. Hmm, I bet they're available on GOG or one of the many DOS archive sites…
>>15635826
Wants what's best for humanity. That's why he shared tech with the Tiberium series
e0ca86 No.15636107
>>15630816
>>15630817
I'm screencapping this, anon. Thank you.
febbc6 No.15636140
e7a5af No.15636221
>>15636140
Funny you post that, since I found out the same thing via Google
Though, the setup launcher doesn't run with 64 bit systems, but I'm a lot more confident in acquiring it now that it's gone open
febbc6 No.15636266
>>15636221
Those instructions gives you links to custom installers which provide launchers after installation.