9735a6 No.15464825
MMOs are a genre where 100% of the genre is nothing more than a shitty skinner box. If you like this genre you are weak willed and a good goy. The fact that you can train a bot to grind for you in these shitty games only proves this point.
1df3cd No.15465015
Go play your linear gameplayless JRPGs you midget queer.
000000 No.15465598
>>15464825
True. All MMOs are, and always were, shit. The retards desperate to keep MMOs relevant are the ones that were scamming money from people, and now are losing everything.
Traditional JRPGs are the only good RPGs.
6d3545 No.15465630
The only MMOs I like are ones like early Star Wars Galaxies. That is, something that doesn't really have a plot and show a real functioning world as it is. In most MMOs I can't have enough suspension of disbelief to get over the fact that basically shittons of people are going through the same linear story over and over yet interacting within that world at the same time, where you just have to separate your interactions from the story.
9fe7fb No.15465631
>>15464825
pre 2003 mmos were different and innovative. Now nearly every mmo has turned into a tab targeting WoW clone.
ab7337 No.15465648
>>15465015
MMOs are the embodiment of linear
f49fe3 No.15465655
>>15465631
This. The early mmo genre had great potential, but now it's overrun with too many people who are addicted to skinner box type rewards mechanics and demand them, which skews the perception about what people want, especially since old school mmo gamers left the genre behind long ago at this point.
The worst part is that these retards demand new games adhere to the old wow clone mechanics but ultimately never leave wow, only playing a new title for a month or two before returning to wow.
90b7d0 No.15465661
When will we ever have a MMORPG that isn't just a scaled up singleplayer RPG with a glorified chat room interface? When will we have a MMO that is at its heart a simulation to see how players interact with the world and among themselves?
a8b5b1 No.15465671
I felt incredibly disappointed with Black Desert. I was expecting something sandbox and with Player to player trade to do merchant adventures, then they showed the game was another pay to win korean cashgrab. The worst thing is that the publisher made the game buy to play instead of free to play promising they wouldn't have pay to win. The west can outjew the koreans it seem.
6d3545 No.15465681
>>15465661
Already answered, check things from before 2003. The aforementioned Star Wars Galaxies had you build settlements and practice a fuckload of professions of your choosing creating an organic economy, it's no surprise the game started dying when it later became WoW-ified.
667d39 No.15465710
>>15465661
we already had it. pre-NGE star wars galaxies was an interesting microcosm of how things develop when players are in charge of literally everything
>market prices
any jackass could slam some metal and wood together and make a blaster, so buying some normal-ass gun or armor was cheap and easy for anyone. master craftsmen, instead of just undercutting each other like in wow, would use the best/rarest materials and experimental/prototypical practices to make actual legit mastercrafts and the competition at that level was fierce as fuck
>buffs/support classes
buffs were completely and utterly critical to any combat class and as a result people would actively seek out doctors and entertainers in order to get ready for their adventuring session. this enforced and encouraged social interaction and built the community; everyone who seriously played it probably still remembers the name of their favorite doctor who had the best buffs and was always online the same time as them
>crafting
fucking brilliant. want to make a blaster? you need x units of metal, y units of wood and z units of electronics. that's it. you could use shit materials that you found by just digging in the dirt with your bare hands, or you could go full turbojew and build extractors in the wilderness to find the best resource deposits, build automated factories along with them, and become a titan of industry. even at peak population there was such a huge amount of wilderness in which to do this that virtually anyone who wanted to could, so there was always room for competition and the market stayed really healthy as a result
>towns/guilds
guilds could build their own cities and actually link them to the planetary transit system, so you could catch a shuttle to Fort Fuckaround built by the FAGS guild. these were not instanced, were not hidden behind a loading screen or a "you cannot enter this area" bullshit roadblock. shuttling to a connected town would provide funds to the town you went to and as a result guilds were always trying to find good locations to build cities, which meant that even something as simple as boarding a fucking space-bus to go from spot to spot on tatooine or whatever evolved as guilds and their cities grew. planning cities and laying down shit was an actual class you could play and meant that if you wanted to go full simcity autism there was actually a role you could fill in the game
90b7d0 No.15465719
>>15465710
I missed this. Fuck.
ef994e No.15465726
is it possible, even in theory, to make a theme park MMO that is at least mediocre?
009db1 No.15465731
>>15465661
when you make it
9fe7fb No.15465734
>>15465695
That was released around 2005 iirc. The reason why I gave that limit was because WoW was released in 2004. It was so successful that everyone began to copy it. So the design of the games that occurred after that period shifted to take inspiration from WoW.
728cec No.15465751
>All MMOs are shit
The fact that every MMO is shit doesnt even make me sad simply because I never got to experience a good one. What makes me sad is that the genre always had potential but is dominated by Blizzards "You pay us every month but expansions are still not free" Bitcoin miner, WoW.
WoW has to die for the genre to be reborn but that won't ever happen because WoW cucks have no taste and will suck Blizzards dicks dry no matter what.
I swear if I had couple dozen million bucks to spare I'd make a good MMO.
90b7d0 No.15465761
>>15465731
See:
>>15465751
>I swear if I had couple dozen million bucks to spare I'd make a good MMO.
7bc134 No.15465764
All hobbies are skinner boxes
009db1 No.15465782
>>15465761
>not making a free MMO in your free time.
ef994e No.15465789
>>15465764
is everything a skinner box?
3ffd92 No.15465792
The only worth playing RPG is a tabletop one. What's the point of an RPG if you can't actually roleplay? If you like "muh strategy" (which RPGs tend to not have beyond rogue-likes) play and actual turn based strategy game.
ef5abc No.15465798
>>15465764
Muh dik a skinner box.
9fe7fb No.15465801
>>15465726
Would Mabinogi be considered one? I liked it because it was different. Your character ages >>15465782
I really want to do one but other game devs have told me that it's lunacy. Apparently you just need to host on a server.
90b7d0 No.15465805
>>15465789
Yes.
>eating is a dopamine hit
>peeing is a dopamine hit
>pooping is a dopamine hit
>sleeping is a dopamine hit
>sex is a dopamine hit
>achieving anything is a dopamine hit
>breathing fresh air is a dopamine hit
So yes, actually, real life is a skinner box.
86b300 No.15465812
>>15465751
>I swear if I had couple dozen million bucks to spare I'd make a good MMO.
9fe7fb No.15465814
>>15465805
Pretty post modern.
009db1 No.15465864
>>15465801
>have told me that it's lunacy.
I wonder why. I haven't made a complex game yet, let alone one that requires networking, so i have no idea what would be lunatic about this.
dba687 No.15465894
>>15465864
>>15465801
It's because network computer science is an arcane art by itself, and then properly getting a game to work online is an ordeal on top of that. Think of how many major studio games there are that have terrible desync problems.
However, that's for 3D realtime games.
If you're making something 2D and not based on fast-paced realtime gameplay, it would be simpler by multiple orders of magnitude. Making something like Space Station 13 for instance (though not really an MMO) would be a lot easier.
It depends on what your ambitions are. I'm sure a one man team can make some sort of persistent online world, and that they have before. But if you wanna make something like a modern Star Wars Galaxies, you would need a large and exceedingly talented studio - not to mention tons of financial resources.
9fe7fb No.15465973
>>15465894
I need to research this more. I only took a course involving it during my undergrad years and it didn't seem much.
2b5f7a No.15466103
There are emulators and private servers for the best MMOs. Even if the official servers got shut down. For example I've been playing quite a bit of Asheron's Call emulator lately (on the pvp-only server). Some anon posted this link a few weeks ago:
www.gdleac.com
I guess it's like 70% of the content that was in game on the last day before WB turned it off.
81eea8 No.15466175
>>15464825
>100% of the genre is nothing more than a shitty skinner box.
Your problem is playing MMOs that are RPGs. Most RPGs are shit, and MMORPGs are just stripped down versions of RPGs.
d94c44 No.15466254
>>15466103
theres even a Scarlett Blade emulator still operating out there
a76ecf No.15466320
>>15464825
couldn't agree more, these games are made to keep people prisoners in the virtual world until (((they))) and eventually totally replace their world with virtual one.
28d60e No.15466347
>you can train bot for it
Just like for every single fucking game.
662426 No.15467037
>s-stop having fun with this particular genre!
Ok, shlomo, what should we be playing instead?
9b79c2 No.15467040
>>15465894
>It's because network computer science is an arcane art by itself, and then properly getting a game to work online is an ordeal on top of that.
Why is networking such a pain in the ass? Is it just the way information is handled in this day and age? Is there a lot more to it? While certain things can be handled by smaller companies easier than with larger companies when it comes to games, I have little reason to think it's the same here with networking.
ede94c No.15467080
>>15464825
go back to reddit
1f2b2c No.15467114
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15465805
>everything is a dopamine hit
If it was all about dopamine we'd be only hedonists. There's more to life than it.
Also biological needs are regulated more by avoiding pain than seeking pleasure.
915e68 No.15467162
>hey all, look at me, anonymous
>let me post the 233423 super original trashing some aleatory game or genre thread
>look at me, the OP, embodiment of mediocrity in the world
The absolute state of current imageboars, its like a fuckying woman's days out where everyone hates each other and loves to trash something to have something to talk and status showoff.
Kill yourself, faggot, die in furry porn.
35160b No.15467436
>>15465710
damn i was too young for this.ffxi was my time sink >.<
35160b No.15467438
>>15467436
wait im retarded, ffxi was like 2002
9d6075 No.15467475
>>15465710
>hear about how good the SWG community is for years
>finally get old enough to have an online subscription
>the NGE was several years ago
>the only thing left of the old days are the derelict guild towns across the landscape
64af51 No.15467523
OP is right
i dont know of a single fucking mmo that had… say questlines that werent mostly all fetch quests
they all also have non-existant transparent storyline that might as well not exist
76ae52 No.15467533
>EvE Online happens.
>Ruined by CCP's incompetence.
>Ultima Happens.
>Ruined by incompetence.
>Asherons Call
>Fucking dies I don't remember why honestly.
>FFXI
>Dies to FFXIV
>Everquest
>Dies to incompetence
>Runescape
>Dies to incompetence and they have to roll it back
>Mabinogi
>Dies to incompetence
I understand that products are made by human beings but if I as a consumer can immediately point out flaws in game design, why can't a group of people with college degrees do so?
c32791 No.15467547
>>15467533
Define "ruined".
>inb4 ruined means game doesn't meet my arbitrary ultra specific demands and expectations
76ae52 No.15467570
>>15467547
>EvE Online
Supercapitals and Titans become extremely prolific, Goons are able to accomplish the "Delve Minute" which makes them virtually indestructible, Citadels reinforce their territory on Fortress Delve. Bought by Pearl Abyss a few years later.
>Ultima Online
Didn't play it, wasn't it the splitting of rulesets that a lot of people credit as the downward spiral? Not entirely sure, I just know that nobody plays retail anymore.
>Everquest
Casualized to hell and back
>Runescape
EOC
>Mabinogi
Play that mabinogi private server we were on and play modern mabi and tell me the private server isn't the tightest shit
4db737 No.15467659
>>15467533
Ultima was ruined in Age of Shadows which was led by none other than Tigole. The man who also ruined Everquet and WoW.
76ae52 No.15467684
>>15467659
>Tigole ruined Ultima Online
Excuse me, what the fuck?
35160b No.15467705
>>15467506
s-sorry i was drunk posting and nostalgic back to when i was a preteenfag
4db737 No.15467736
>>15467659
>>15467684
I get blizz devs confused sometimes. It was ruined by Tigole's right hand man Tom Chilton. They worked in the same team in WoW.
Tom Chilton was the producer of the Ultima Online Expansion "Age of Shadows". It was memorable for 2 things.
Firstly, the Necromancer and Chivalry skills which are broken and mandatory for all top tier melee builds. Secondly the item system which started the MMO trend of constant item bloat, number inflation and eternal grinding.
In the old days a sword was a sword, a magic sword (vanquishing) did more damage to a very specific mob species, e.g. only to orcs, only to humans etc. This was it, if you lost your items no big deal, it took like 30 mins worth of gold farming to just buy a new set of gear for PvP, PvE for whatever activity you fancy.
In the Age of Shadows this was changed, there was a huge slew of magic prefixes and suffixes much like Diablo 3 which resulted in the MMO trend of constant character power expansion and grind along with it. This was also after the introduction of Trammel (PvE only area). So with no gold sinks provided by the PvP players, huge gold inflation occured. The only people who can afford good gear these days are traders and people with credit cards.
f6d40c No.15467744
>>15465805
Eating is a serotinin hit, not a dopamine hit.
000000 No.15467841
>>15467523
To be fair, what kind of quests should be made for the most part? Nobody seems to have a direct answer because it sames irremovable from MMORPGs.
1df3cd No.15467853
>>15465648
Lmao spoken like a console pleb newfag of the highest order and lowest breeding. Kys.
2ba97e No.15467877
Stunning discoveries by some underaged faggot who is too young to have played real MMOs like UO.
be1033 No.15467907
>>15464825
>I'm too autistic to interact with other people and/or too poor to afford the sub. I'm also extremely retarded.
/v/ in a nutshell
c26faf No.15468271
>>15465805
>>breathing fresh air is a dopamine hit
Everyone's receptors would be fucked ragged.
2212ee No.15468345
>>15468271
Breathing fresh air, after having spent extended period in indoors inhaling stale air, sounds like a potential dopamine hit.
f5b8c7 No.15468348
>>15465710
Never played SWG but damn this sounds amazing. If anyone were to make a modern MMO which reiterates these concepts or even expands upon them, then I'd play it for sure.
2b5f7a No.15468652
>>15467659
>Ultima was ruined in
the 3rd month or so of retail, whenever they nerfed pre-casting. i was somewhat in favor of the teleport fix, but when pre-casting got removed there wasn't much skill in PvP anymore
b7620f No.15468678
>play vidya with cuckchan back in the day
>everyone is an autistic sperg spouting stale memes and inner circles are ran by cybersexing virgins
>play vidya with 8ch
>everyone is an autistic sperg spouting stale memes and telling everyone else to fuck off to cuckchan/Reddit
>play videogames with Reddit
>everyone is an autistic sperg living in a hugbox with 500 rules, or normalfags that are bad at the game
>play videogames with normalfags
>everyone is bad at videogames
>play videogames with raiding groups
>everyone is an autistic sperg and expects you to devote stupid amounts of time to the game
Every guild is shit and that doesn't help MMOs
2b5f7a No.15468686
>>15468678
>Every guild is shit and that doesn't help MMOs
Time for game-created/maintained guilds. No choice for the players.
eab2e8 No.15468691
>>15467907
Did you know that it's possible to interact with people outside of MMOs, and that it even doesn't necessarily cost money? There are also other games that let you interact with people online, if that is the only kind of interaction you consider valid, without including the MMO grind or subscriptions.
c0084e No.15468697
>>15464825
Mmos are just a facebook alternative for gamers. And equally as cancerous.
2212ee No.15468703
>>15468348
SWG has private servers, but I can't vouch for them.
b0719b No.15468818
Loved ragnarok but TOS is such garbage.
2b5f7a No.15468902
>>15468691
>Did you know that it's possible to interact with people outside of MMOs
The NPCs are just as boring.
1048c7 No.15468912
okay but FFXIV is really good so you're wrong
f7e58c No.15470918
OP is right, the only semi-decent MMO was Age of Conan because combat actually required user input not just macros.
9978e6 No.15471073
The only good thing about MMOs are community driven events. The gameplay itself is always abysmal, the primary attraction for MMO gameplay is always addictiveness.
667d39 No.15471091
>>15468348
>modern MMO that reiterates or expands
they tried with The Repopulation, but they had some serious funding trouble and its totally fucked now. i don't know what's going on with it but it's most likely dead before it even lived
>>15468703
i personally played on SWGemu, Awakening and Phoenix. SWGemu was a lot of fun and the community was really genuinely cool and i might honestly get back into it. awakening fucking sucked and i hated every minute of it; that community is one of the worst i've ever seen in my life. phoenix is dead now but we had a really fuckin fun 8/v/ guild and had a blast with it. we all leveled up the unbelievably broken creature handler skills and were fielding genetically-created monsters that were so game-breakingly powerful that we were unstoppable. we eventually killed a Jedi who we all suspected was either an admin or the admin's friend and made them so mad they shut down the server
0c2a99 No.15471099
>games meant to be played with lots of other people suck to play alone and are inferior to single player games in that regard
No shit.
fec44c No.15471109
>>15468912
I at least like having more than 4 buttons to press for the classes(jobs) I play.
FFXIV fans are idiots and want their game to have more "QoL" stuff from WoW though. The game is enough like WoW as it is, hopefully the Japs won't listen.
9fe7fb No.15471114
>>15467907
Most modern mmos are single player experiences now.
b51044 No.15471245
They have the same gameplay as mobage and gachashit trash. Why would any sane person pay to play such crap. Skinnerboxes; that's all they are. If you want immersion in an MMORPG, you'll sooner find a populated MUD than find and RPG in today's MMO's.
af5084 No.15471651
>>15468902
>hurr durr cuckchan NPC meme
f6d40c No.15471674
>>15471245
MUDs are shit too anon.
32714f No.15471895
9978e6 No.15471909
>>15471651
There are only so many souls to go around, anon. So either the vast majority of people today are NPCs, or a single soul is stretched across a number of bodies. Either way, it leads to rough stuff.
a754a3 No.15471951
What's with the mmo hate by millenials? Is it because they grew up playimg shit like LoL and console shooters?
9978e6 No.15471957
>>15471951
Born too late for Everquest and its decent successors, born too late for VR MMOs of the future.
fedcd6 No.15471960
>>15471957
>VR MMOs
That sounds like a new circle of hell.
9978e6 No.15471963
>>15471960
It's coming, brother. Get ready. MMO addicts already die of dehydration and shit like that, just wait until they put a bootlegged headset on and drift away.
56a135 No.15472071
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>15468818
>Loved ragnarok but TOS is such garbage.
funny, was gonna post this vid