/v/ - Video Games

>>14832581

oh and theres also that set bonus stuff for the provided examples

if PvP and PvE gear should be different, then should there be specific bonuses to specific abilities on the PvP gear for PvP abilities, and/or vice versa?

Never played WoW but it's quite shit in Ragnarok Online. PvP gear is obtained in PvE, but due to droprates being so low for everything, the only people who are effective in PvP have been playing non-stop for years. It's nearly impossible to catch up for a new player.

At the same time, if I get a good piece of gear from a monster I'd like to be able to use it against other players too. I don't think there's an easy solution to this.

The endgame of MMOs shouldn't revolve around grinding for slightly better gear at all.

>>14832668

I agree with you to an extent

I'd rather it be more like the way it was in WoW's patch 1.5, where there was just T1 raids, and the rank-based PvP gear was just released

though it wasn't done right then either because the PvP gear had better itemization for PvP than the PvE gear did

having 3 tiers of endgame content was too much, I think; 1(technically 2 if you count dungeons) is quite enough

>>14832668

That worked well for GW2.

>>14832709

Anet are niggerbrained SJWs that fucked up an otherwise good concept.

DAoC had decent endgame PvP that didn't revolve around LE PURPLE EPIXXX

In Dungeon Fighter Online each piece of gear has separate stats for PvE and PvP. All gear of the same slot/level/type have the same stats in PvP with higher rarities giving larger bonuses so it's just simply a case of wearing the highest rarity gear of your class armor mastery. The highest rarity gear can be obtained through PvP as well. It's probably easier to get them through PvE though. PvP has unique gear rewards that are useful in PvE.

Vanilla did gear right

earn your gear by fighting raid bosses, which reward you with gear. Said gear is used in BGs and pvp and you wreck shit and have fun.

BC introduced attunements which is also good, you still have to clear the boss and not skip content, so previous content is still relevant for people joining the expansion later

Mechanics should be fair but depend on player's skill and not a gimmick or cheesed by high ilvl gear. mechanics should be fun to repeat and not be a chore or something irrelevant by a cookie cutter strategy

Kingdom Hearts 2 does better boss fights than WoW ever did. They should look at how dynamic and fun mechanics are in KH2 and incorporate that to bosses.

Back to gear. I think WoW gear is fine, they just need to squish and remove versatility. Jewelcrafting sockets, reforging and Fun chance on hit abilities are fine, they add customization and fun. Resilience or pvp power is no longer needed with the new way they balance gear on pvp, and it is no longer around for that reason.

I think that if they add reforging, add sockets to gear, add fun chance on hit abilities (or rather on Equip things that don't rely on RNG and change the rotation or add fun), and remove versatility, the gear on WoW would be fine.

We need more Gurthalaks and more fun weapons that summon shit or throw shadowbolts. Gear is supposed to be your reward for clearing the raid. Gear should be usable in BGs, which don't matter and are just for fun, and for instanced or ranked bgs like Arena or Ranked BGs they can use the balance they apply to make it fair.

That way Queueing for BGs can be just for fun but it's actually fun to do so, and getting those BG achievements is not a bore

>>14832668

>>14832695

so I just used the bathroom for a while and thought of this while I was in there:

all raids should offer T1 gear, but have T1 gear in mind for the difficulty of the raid, as in, "requiring" T1 gear for the raid to be cleared

that way, players would never outgear raids

but when the only PvE alternative, PuGgable 5 man dungeons, offers gear thats not as good as T1, then how do players get their hands on gear thats good enough to do the T1 raids without PvPing?

I miss when WoW was about seeing how far into the content you could get, not stuffing time into the loot slot machine. Back in classic and TBC, very few guilds were clearing all content and you'd rate a guild based on the hardest boss they'd killed. Wrath fucked that up with heroics where every guild got to see almost all fights, the only difference was a few mechanics, tuning, and the color of the loot. Even with heroics they tuned it so that only the last boss in a raid was any challenge at all so everyone no matter the difficulty was getting the same experience. And they'd nerf them into the ground over time to make sure everyone even on heroic could say they killed it. That everyone's a winner shit killed the feel for me.

>>14832887

>earn your gear by fighting raid bosses, which reward you with gear. Said gear is used in BGs and pvp and you wreck shit and have fun.

That's a terrible system. PvP should be about skill and knowledge alone and not how much you autistically can grind at end game.

Someone at level 1 should be given access to PvP gear that is comparable with someone at level 100. This design means it encourages PvP play at any level, to new players and isn't about a fucking autistic power trip which PvE is about.

>>14832581

wow, before the stupid resilience or whatever the PVP stat is called, had it pretty close to what i think is good. i like the idea that if i've worked hard, killed the underground lava god or the evil dragon lord or whatever, i have gear that will give me an advantage in pvp. it encourages players to see both sides of the game. this lack of a pvp specific stat resulted in the best world pvp i've ever seen, in that is was natural and it happened very "organically" as much as i hate to use that word for anything; when nobody is wearing pvp-specific fuck-you gear a battle can erupt at any time, and it resulted in battles that even though my entire attitude towards wow turned 180 degrees and i genuinely hate it now i will never forget. i remember a battle raging in the deeprum tram for three days, with members showing up or taking off as their schedules demanded, but the population was mostly even so no progress was made. you just went to the tram if you wanted to throw the fuck down and it was awesome. i remember seeing a guild of RP tryhards marching their epic mounts at walking speed across the barrens in a solid line, advancing on the crossroads, and i remember feeling actual excitement because i knew that the horde was going to respond and the shit was about to go down. now? now you carry a special set of gear, you queue up for some gay arena or whatever, and it's bland and antiseptic and featureless

tl;dr i think a game needs to mix pve and pvp to create something that actually endures and is fun, and raid gear, as hard as it used to be to get, absolutely should be the badge of honor it once was

>>14833758

My sweet summer child

WoW pvp has never been about balance and a high meta. It's just for fun.

WoW pvp ended up being balanced in Cata and MoP, then with the pruning in WoD the game went to complete shit, the meta became shallow as a puddle and nobody arenas anymore

Battlegrounds are for funs, like smash bros with items on

Arenas and ranked bgs is where PvP is balanced and they use the system where they fix stats for the class/spec and it goes up very slightly depending on ilvl.

>>14833826

PvP is fun, when it's balanced and you do a reasonable amount of damage while taking a reasonable amount of damage.

There is nothing fun about killing someone you have 500 times more health than and do 500 times more damage just because you are at end game and they're not. That's just a power trip, if you want that shit go play fucking musou games.

PvP is probably the most fun I have in MMOs, it's intense, quick and tight battles really get the heart pounding. Just because you're incapable of matching a player's skill and improving doesn't mean you should shit the mode for the rest of us, a lot of us that actually like PvP don't want it to be a curbstomp power trip and actually want a fair and challenging match.

You lose a match in PvP and it should have been because you were outskilled, they knew how to counter you and you need to learn from this loss to improve next time you take on that class. It should not be because your attack does 10 while theirs does 10,000.

>>14832720

If you don't mind, could you explain the system a bit? DAoC wasn't something I played but if a system is good there's no reason to not lament it

I miss classic wow and being a restoration druid in pvp and just being so incredibly hard to kill then coming back to throw out roots and stuns

>>14832581

i didnt really play bc but i played on lightbringer but thats besides the point. i kinda like the fact that there is an option to gain powerful gear for raids from pvp. its not mandatory but in vannila it kinda balanced itself out, for instance getting rank 14 on a warrior or rogue is huge the weapons are amazing but the thing is at some point you might end up replaceing those weapons. a good point is in aq patch. alot of pve gear becomes really strong you get items like aqr and death sting and the tier 2.5 sets which in my opnion was the best sets they made till tier 3 so your pvp gear is very useful it will last you a long time but there is going to be pve gear in vannila later on that will be better. so if you just pve and never do bgs and rank you will get better gear than people that did rank 14, also there are some aq40 tier 2.5 sets that are way better than the rank 13 sets heres a good expample the warlock rank 13 set is really not good compated to the doomcaller tier 2.5 set that set has so much stammina and spell power anc crit while it has less stamina than the rank 13 set its spell power and crit make it perfect for pvp. also another thing if your in a dkp guild and have rank 14 weapons you can easlily skip the better weapons as while they are an upgrade it might be better going for other pieces and let your other guildies get them so it also kinda helps out your guild.

>>14834206

in vannila u kinda wanna build your own pvp set but there were pve sets that could go toe to toe with a full rank 13 player https://classicdb.ch/?itemset=499

>>14832581

>should equipment that is obtained from PvP be itemized for PvP but be mediocre for PvE of the same level, while gear that is obtained from PvE be itemized for PvE while being mediocre for PvP of the same level?

No. That was one of the gayest things about Neverwinter. It led to having to add a new "stat" called tenacity. Some gear gave you +tenacity which helped in PvP.

It's fucking retarded. Gear should just be gear.

>>14832581

There shouldn't be a clear cut divide between PvP gear and PvE gear. There should be a wide variety of gear, and players can use their head for once to figure out which shit they want to get for what they plan on doing, instead of having the gear-treadmill spoonfeed them the next goal they should be working towards.

>>14832608

>PvP gear is obtained in PvE, but due to droprates being so low for everything, the only people who are effective in PvP have been playing non-stop for years.

Droprates are cancer. If the devs don't want to cause an overabundance of good loot, they should make the enemies harder to kill.

>>14834222

>Gear should just be gear.

This.

im giving this one bump