/v/ - Video Games

>>14821203

But """normalfags""" are 98% of the Android playerbase and the best MMOs with the best quality control have been released on that godawful platform.

I need a more reasonable explanation.

I always got the feeling every MMO released after WoW, with very few exceptions, was made using some shitty unfinished engine with stock assets. A lot of the doors and other objects in FF14 for example look ripped straight from EQ2, horribly greasy sheen and all.

>>14821219

I've been hearing the same stock sound effects in video games (and some movies) used in Morrowind. The door opening and book sound effects especially I hear EVERYWHERE.

I'm not sure what it means.

>>14821227

Speaking of Morrowind the spellcasting sound is the same sound as the fishing sound in OOT. I guess they found a stock sound file names "casting" and didn't understand what it actually meant.

>>14821233

Those games are all a decade old, pso2 is even over half a decade old. Once you play it and ascend to endgame, nothing really brings you back. Updates only artificially raise ceilings for more chores to do. Diminishing returns.

After, as an example, being an mmo customer for more than 5 years, you see the same patterns and motivation drops. Most games with decent populations have too similar methods of progression. Nostalgia, familiarity rules in the end on what game a long time consumer will play. I would rather replay pso1 to endgame with a group than pso2 again. The other games you mentioned will never make me budge to try.

>>14821187

>Why are MMOs dead?

Pandering to the LCD. No setbacks from PvP. Fetch quests. SJW drivel storyline and art direction. Furfaggots, trannies, gooks, chinks, and jews.

At least the Asheron's Call Emulator is making really good progress!

>>14821244

Really the worst thing WoW did was make it so your contribution to a group wasn't much more than you doing what you always did in a vacuum. Nothing like the trick attack or skillchains from FFXI could work in WoW because the userbase are a bunch of spastics who only begrudgingly play with others.

>>14821187

MMOs were always shit.

>>14821260

>Because infinite games don't exist?

They could though. Turbine promised to release the server for Asheron's Call specifically so players could run private legacy servers should they decide to turn theirs off. Warner Bros. jews reneged, and shut the servers off.

The game had years worth of free content updates, and two actually worthwhile paid expansion packs. No loot crates, keys, lockboxes, auction house, etc. I will for sure be running an 8/v/ Asheron's Call server once ACE is close to feature parity with the actual servers.

>>14821268

<I was always shit at nuMMOs and I'm an underage b& faggot born after the glory days.

>>14821258

It's all so boring, man. I wonder if there's still people who play WoW that did so since the base game came out. Imagine being that person.

>>14821287

I guarantee there's at least a few thousand of them, though I doubt even a handful actually played nonstop.

>>14821187

that looks like WoW from back in 2006

What the fuck are you talking about

I'll be a customer if a game tries something that is like this; spend a week with a small group, choose your role, help make an area ours. A castle with walls, a dungeon with traps, and then forced to defend it from something for a few hours. Then try again elsewhere. Basically something that requires players to talk and plan, but also fun (no spreadsheet simulators). Maybe someone can do that one day.

>>14821305

so a tower defense game

>>14821312

>he wants ASSFAGGOTS

don't encourage him

>>14821305

FFXI almost did this but it was a buggy piece of shit and no one liked it. There was a base defense mode though complete with going and getting back your flag from the enemy base but it was all static and didn't really complement the game's combat system too much.

>>14821271

But what kind of gameplay this Asheron's Call of yours have?

If it's some single-cell monster clicker like UO or RO then I doubt it cold sustain itself on oldfags' nostalgia alone.

>>14821316

Ultima Online was a great game pre-patch. They ruined it by nerfing pre-casting ~3rd month in.

>The thing about multiplayer games in general is that you can't seperate the people you play with from the game, so any crap will do because the people you play with are fun. That's a big part of why the genre always was garbage. Furthermore it makes the games age like milk, so even the good games are shafted.

Except Asheron's Call actually had an elegant and working solution to your "problem": monarchy allegiance.

The only reason I quit playing Asheron's Call was due to real life time constraints. When I finally had some time to devote to that sort of game again Turbine had dicked some of the original devs around, and moved some to D&D Online (which I then played for a good 5 years until more real life constraints).

>>14821332

>But what kind of gameplay this Asheron's Call of yours have?

It's 3D and controlled like a 3rd person platformer basically. I only played on the PvP-only server Darktide. Embed related shows a bit of the graphics while giving a status update on the emulator progress.

>>14821336

It'll happen to your favorite games too. And if your pic is anything to go by, it already has.

>>14821366

That's why I'm saying I want Ragnarok Mobile to come stateside.

no one wants fetch quests with friends

hard to know. RIFT was ok, I mean you'd have to factor everything in I guess.

What's Runescape up to nowadays?

>>14821425

gay pride parades, gear threadmills, venezuelan gold farmers, and "i hope you live 2 blocks down from the server otherwise enjoy your 140 ping fag"

you know whats the one thing that grinds my gears, rustles my jimmies, and just overall drives me up the fucking wall? the fact that every nuMMO has these "markers" or "ground lines" that point directly to the next NPC of whichever quest you select in your quest book.

because fuck exploration and taking notes, piece of shit normalfaggots don't have the attention span to actually remember where John McQuestgiver is or the "time" to find out where Jeanette McQuestgiver, john McQuestgiver's wife, is staying so that you can deliver the item or progress the quest.

either way even if i found a half decent MMO i have no friends so fuck my life. i guess im gonna try Bless solo because Project Gorgon sucks ass. im sorry but just because you make an MMO with no handholding doesn't mean that you can SELL IT on the promise of "no handholding" alone, the rest of the game has to be interesting and fun and PG simply isn't.

>>14821322

are you talking about TOAU's Assault? i never got to play it and even so, its absolutely dead in modern XI

>>14821535

When's the next pride parade?

>>14821541

After how bad the reception was last year I doubt they'll do another one, but you never know

>>14821599

i stopped playing after the gay pride event, that was just unacceptable.

>>14821582

I didn't even know about his involvement in RS3, any idea what the item he nerfed was?

>>14821614

Serpentine Helm

>>14821622

Serpentine is OSRS, your post made it seem like he nerfed an RS3 item

>>14821641

i just looked it up on google, it said serpentine helm

>>14821652

Honestly if there's one thing I actually enjoyed about Runescape in the last years I played about it it's the treasure trails minigame. No bullshit, no guides, just you want a giant world that you can go and explore to find treasure, most of the time it's shit especially when the clues are placed in seriously dangerous areas, rarely the treasure is good, but it's a fun, dangerous romp that fills the void after you were done with the better quests the game had to offer.

Or you could be a colossal fag and look up a guide on everything but where's the fun in that.

>>14821652

Well shit I never thought of Runescape in that way. That anon is right.

>>14821187

>better graphics.

Whatever you are on, it's time to stop. You've damaged your eyes.

>Better gameplay

You wot mate? Lineage is a korean grindfest shithole of a game. Be honest, how much ant blood do you have in your veins? You've gotta be at least partial chink to enjoy endless repetition to watch your numbers increase.

Nice shillpost though, Mr Chingchong.

>>14821739

>second picture

>backs with X formed chainmail

>leaving heart perfectly open to be stabbed

thief guild must have bribed all blacksmiths.

>>14821488

For the second bit, yes. That was assault. To this day I consider it to be the most fun I've ever had in a MMO outside of some random world event but it could get rather stale really quick because the game wasn't really made with stuff like that in mind and it was doomed to get abandoned over the years.

Now the first bit was honestly something I can't even remember the name of. You'd talk to some goblin NPC and you could make little modular dungeons for you and your friends but it was busted all to shit and rewards sucked. This was added in maybe 2009 or so I think. Literally nobody ever used it.

P2W, no PK and greedy companies went mobile.

>>14821598

Yeah pretty much. When daily quests became the norm the entire genre pretty much became irredeemable overnight. It's just been a virtual breadline ever since.

>>14821944

>The MMOs really need to get out of "story mode" in my opinion

How did this end up gaining so much traction in MMO development anyway? It's basically the antithesis to what a MMO should be. Is it just like, plebs that want a single player game but playing games without a social aspect is for nerds so its not until an MMO does it that they start buying the games or something?

>>14821992

Because it's easier for Hollywood dropouts to design. Blizzard for example hires almost exclusively from the same animation school Pixar gets their slaves from so it shouldn't be a surprise when less than a tenth of the development team were never in it to make a game.

The disruption caused by WoW led to the knowledge of how to make decent MMORPGs being forgotten and lost.

Because they were never good.

Anything that attracts more normalfags than Gamers is shit.

>>14822020

You could probably say that about any genre they've touched.

>>14822085

that image is wrong, MMOs never used to be like top ever

>>14821535

What about that Runescape next thing? Nothing about that yet?

turns out that when you have a gimmick of playing with a ton of people and you staple it together with as genre as unimaginative and lazy as RPG you can just shit together bottom of the barrel skinner box game play and there's really not much room for experimentation in that shit there.

MMOs aren't dead rather they're in limbo right now as they've moved into lootbox cancer mobile shit where its easy to shit out 50 of them in a year

The early to mid 2000s was the peak of MMOs because the market wasn't saturated yet which is good because MMOs only work when there's little of them on the market market to spread a given user base too thin. MMOs rely on huge populations

Give it 20 more years for cheap mobile MMOs to completely die out and then maybe they'll be good again

>Why does an Android exclusive mobile MMORPG have better graphics and gameplay than any MMO released for PC in the past ten years?

Oh this is a b8 thread nevermind

>>14833817

Oh oh no. Mobile games and MMORPG mobile games won't die

>>14833832

If you said that 5 years ago when the market still had promise I would believe you. The mobile games market is never going to die so much as its going to get more irrelevant. We're already starting to see it. The last mobileshit that made headlines was Pokemon GO. That should tell you something

>>14833867

I can't disagree, I guess

>>14833719

It looks worse than ff7, fuck off.

I'd rather have mmo that looks like daggerfall.

>>14833933

That's pretty damn cool. I wish my experience with MMOs was like that, though some adventures in Age of Wushu with the /v/ guild were somewhat like that, but that game was a big mess. I only ever played on-rails grindfests.

I agree that most people nowadays don't play for the adventure and don't know how to make their own fun were a game to give them the tools to do so. I'd say it's an attitude that goes much deeper than just video games, but you're right, the mentality has shifted drastically and is sustained by treadmill MMOs.

I think part of that blame also falls on devs of MMOs who changed them to cater to the needs of the 'carebear' or casual either through a lack vision for what they've created or just wanting to dumb down to the lowest common denominator so as to reach the widest available playerbase.

All in all it's just a damn shame and I'm not sure if the genre will ever recover.

>>14833677

I played f2p runescape like that ten years ago. I also had no idea what to do and only reached combat level 32

>>14833677

I used to be like that in Vanilla WoW. In my defense it came out when I was in High School. I never joined a forum, I just played the game.

MMOs are dead because the success of WoW convinced everyone that Raiding is the only thing that matters. We get very few MMOs at all and mostly just Raiding games with a horrible grind and zero effort pvp tossed in.

An MMO rpg is supposed to simulate a person entering a fantasy world. Like a very in depth single player PC game from back in early Ultima days, only with a mass of other people on. Of course the proper way to develop this would be to create an eco-system like enviroment where dozens to hundreds of mechanics slowly affected the world and in turn were affected by it. This was the direction Ultima Online went, but unfortunately they made a slight miscalculation both in player behavior and popularity and scrapped that mechanic and pretty much poisoned the well for years to come. Sadly, this is the ultimate design challenge that needs to be overcome in order to create a truly great MMO. It's pretty much common sense (since anons on the internet have the benifit of hindsight and not desperately trying to fix the game in less than a month) that this would effectively be done via time gates at a minimum (like archage and bdo use). Or, preferably, by increasing the investment a player has to make in an activity significantly and ensuring that specific actions yield specific rewards for specific players. Yes, this means that you need to make tons of interlocking and mutually exclusive content that people are only going to see a fraction of. No, you can't skimp on this or you end up with healers nuking berserk plants to death in the jungle or druids wiping out the local wildlife population and all the content becomes an unremarkable slurry.

The reason we've never gotten back to that point is because at this point in MMO history a spider came along. A spider called WoW. It was fairly simplistic but with the disappointment of star wars galaxies at launch and the popularity of diablo and warcraft 3 behind them a lot of people tried it out. WoW is pure gaming cancer made of bad design and Skinner Boxes. Millions of players blitzed through the game during that new-release twilight where the shallowness of the game world and broken mechanics don't matter. They didn't even notice that about 90% of the map would be completely useless after the leveling quests, that thanks to broken character progression choices and customization that their characters were no different from any other, or even that the game seemed to actively try and prevent an economy from starting up, or the lack of meaningful faction, alternative advancement, housing, professions that mean anything, things to do at cap, any kind of effect on the world… point is the game lacked a bunch of stuff. But it was a direct upgrade to the slog of Everquest so people stayed around long enough to develop friendships in guilds, which will keep people playing for years.

>>14835362

So what does blizzard do with their monster hit of a game that has pretty much 0 content to do outside of raids? Add more raids! Yes, by producing more content that only 1% of the player-base can even see while ignoring all other aspects of the game they can certainly reach a sustainable homeostasis. From vanilla all the way through wrath the devs simply made more and more raid content, with any and all improvements to the UI, Balance, Progression and Customization simply being byproducts to help Raiding. Finally all the 'casual' players (non-raiders) realized that there was never going to be anything in the game for them and started to trickle out. At which point Blizz started turning to increasingly desperate bids to make raiding for everyone. Ultimately shoving a bunch of players who didn't want to be raiding into raids, pissing off both the raiders who had their content flooded with people who don't even want to be there and the people who have to be there to justify their 15 dollarinos a month.

WoW is ultimately a fluke, a jackpot won on the last dollar of a dev team that was already mostly out the door that couldn't be re-invested if the newer developers life depended on it. However what it was, was successful. So we got all the competitors trying to rush into a niche market. Each trying to copy WoW more perfectly than the last. Why have true factions with unique goals, ideals, rewards and hierarchies that players can join and advance in a myriad of ways, some bloody and some not, when you can simply split your race count down the middle and say one side vs the other? Every horrific game design feature in WoW simply propagated for years to the point where people now believe that an MMO is supposed to have high turn over after release.

If we're ever going to see a decent MMO again, it'll be inspired by Stardew Valley of all things. Someone is finally going to get the idea that we should start design with the idea of 'the player should be able to farm, and not have to do anything else, and have fun' or some other basic need in the games economy will be given similar care and attention to detail. From that one core nugget of good game design will sprout questions and answers. 'How do we make it so players don't HAVE to farm?' 'How will players that farm deal with things that require combat?' 'How does the players crop yield affect the economy?' and most importantly 'What do we do if nobody wants to farm?'

Because ultimately, a good MMO needs that amount of soul crushing depth. Even if you take steps as a developer to alleviate it, which they should.

>>14821582

Goddamn that shitstorm was worth it though, for the fun I had joining in with the rioters.

>>14833719

I remember so little about early AC. I remember something about going to rithwic to grind applesauce with some super advanced plugin (bot) that could full-service craft anything even if it first had to level my dude and obtain the crafting tools and materials. I think it was called Iron Chef but I've not been able to find anything from google searches, like almost everything about AC has just been forgotten. Left it on overnight, came back to a bunch of M notes. It was more advanced than WoWGlider nearly a decade before it existed.

>>14834738

>you will never play on an actually populated NGE server as the game was when it closed down for no other reason than EA making tortanic.

Private servers feel so empty and depressing, I wish to loiter around bestine having fun again with all the imperials.

>>14835362

>>14835364

Blizzard intentionally designed WoW around raiding because they knew nobody could compete with them when it comes to generating all the assets required to make new raids constantly. Remember how EQ died off because it became all about raid autism when the game was clearly not designed around accommodating it in a large scale fashion? Remember how the guild most infamous for causing this was lead by a guy who just so happened to be friends with the lead designer for Warcraft 3?

I just resubscribed to Anarchy Online. Planning to finish my 220 fixer to get some closure on the game.

I just want to let everyone knows that Dofus is a shitty MMORPG and it's only pvp oriented. Beside that, all updates are made for the ones who already reached the highest level (200)

MMOs had the evolve beyond just the grind, they didnt, so they are dead

>>14821739

Still miss gw1.

>>14836208

Welcome to /v/

Don't forget to check out "destroyed blizzard" thread.

>>14836208

Compared to the way things were just a few years ago I'd say they're dead or dying. How many big mmo's can you name that released in the last couple of years? I can think of Tree of Savior, but that's already 2 years old. You could count Destiny 2 and Sea of Thieves if you want, but those flopped so hard they left a crater where they landed. Otherwise the only popular, surviving MMOs are already several years old and nobody seems to be marketing for a new IP in recent memory. Compared to where things were a few years ago where you might see 8 or more in a year, I'd say it's dead.

>You will never play an mmo with player run taverns whose owners have to make deals with the local agriculture bros for fresh, seasonal ingredients exclusive to their region so they can make you high quality meals for 8 hour buffs

>You will never have to take a few minites to eat, encouraging you to socialize with the other patrons or read one of the newsletters penned by some turbo-autist that knows the scoop on everything in the area

>You will never recieve information on random, unnanounced quests in the area from the bartender, who has picked up the gossip from people coming in for their buffs before accepting them.

MMOs are trash ;_;

>>14836357

Why are you even bothering to reply to a blatant cuckchanner?

>>14836357

>You need to release brand new games for the genre to not be dead

It's stagnant but all the popular MMOs get constant updates so your point is moot.

>>14836391

The thing is online games do keep being released constantly, it's just you don't know if they stick around down the line, and huge or lack of marketing is not an indicator.

Remember that Something-Star Online that looked like WOW in space? It got huge campaign, actively being shilled on imageboards as well as normalfag sites.

It failed miserably.

On the other hand we have new shit like Bless Online, Albion Online, Moonblade of Someshit and a whole bunch of others with zero marketing, with some cheap lazy shills making threads there once in a while.

Will any of those be dead or hugely successful in 5 years? We won't know until then.

>>14821187

Monthly reminder (((blizzard))) dumbed down WoW to appeal to the normalfag masses.

>>14836378

https://youtu.be/EizE6U4yQpM

>>14821739

Love how that text in GW1 pretends warrior/elementalist was good or even viable for things like hamstring/rain of fire.

Fuck, I'm going to reinstall and play. Servers are still up, right?

>>14836481

Eternal reminder that WoW has always been for the normalfags.

>>14821332

How the fuck are you posting in a MMO thread and don't know what AC is?

>>14835362

>>14835364

WoW is what killed the MMO genre. They hit the market at the right time when it was starting to become "cool" to play video games and the internet was starting to become more popular. There's a lot wrong with WoW like mentioned, and I think it's safe to say that it was lightning in a bottle and the cork popped at the right time.

Once WoW became a success the genre suffered and faltered. This was mostly due to, in my opinion, the community that WoW spawned which is a bunch of needy babies that want instant gratification and instant fun. After that any MMO that came out if they tried some new game mechanic everyone would complain that "WoW didn't do it like this, WoW did it like THIS," they would drop it. If the new MMO was too similar to WoW it was a "WoW clone" and they would drop it. There was no winning for new MMOs because WoW was the elephant in the room that had everyone hooked onto how MMOs were supposed to be.

UO, EQ, DAoC, AC, AO, SWG, L2, and the fun they brought, gone. Relics of the past. The only thing these new players wanted was all sorts of bullshit raiding guilds to see who can have the biggest glowing shoulder pads and shit. The simple lessons and things the previous games gave us were all gone and thrown out the window. Roleplaying was a thing of the past and people were made fun of for even doing it. This whole new wave of faggotry emerged from the internet, and I'm all for some good bants, but when EVERYONE in a game is trying to "troll" everyone else, it just is annoying.

All those fond memories people made in the past MMOs they can't create in any new games because the community just isn't there anymore. Instead they treat it like a second job and have all these bullshit raids scheduled and if you don't attend you get penalized in points and shit. Back in the day with UO all the RPing people did, the communities they built in-game around taverns and things they would create, you just can't do that anymore. Just show up and chill.

The last MMO I played that I had fun with was ArcheAge, and that was short lived fun. The reasons became less and less to login and play.

>>14821739

>A Deadly Combination

The memes of the past were glorious.

>>14836552

Servers are still up. Hell, if you fell for the GW2 meme, it's extremely easy to get your lost account back, too. Just say that you're interested in getting back into GW2 and they'll suck your dick to get your account back.

It's hard to find enough people to do a lot of things nowadays. I haven't even checked Tombs and such for the longest time. But with the number of heroes you can bring, combined with the last balances patches and summons and such, it's pretty much a single-player game at this point.

>>14836691

The thing about WoW that makes its playerbase so revolting is the fact that it was probably the first MMO where seeing another player more than likely would make you angry. Every facet of the game is designed around other players just getting in your way more often than not what with tiny ass questing locations that only got smaller as the game went on, material farming that involved going down an undefended pathway filled with chink bots, and an emphasis on endgame grouping when everything up to that point would be mostly just you by yourself. Mix all that shit in with the sub 90IQ third worlders and children who flock to every Blizzard game and it's no wonder why people cried for automated grouping and more instancing.

>>14836727

I was too deep into UO and didn't want to break away from it to jump ship to AC. I did buy AC and played it for I think two months, but UO just kept sucking me back in. Plus I was poor and couldn't afford to sub to both games.

People that played AC though, man did they swear by it, and it did sound really cool from all the forums and stuff I would read, but when my time in UO was coming to an end I jumped ship to DAoC and my life was ruined.

>>14836742

eh, I disagree with that a little bit. I see it as there were just so many goddamn players and bots which made the areas feel more overcrowded than they should have been.

I do agree with the mouth-breathing children and other morons that just buy anything Blizzard because Blizzard fucking everything up though.

>Why does an Android exclusive mobile MMORPG have better graphics and gameplay than any MMO released for PC in the past ten years?

that's good at least one genre didn't fall into graphics meme

>>14837301

How about entire towns being built by players? Having some random town be destroyed doesn't evoke much emotion, having your shop that you built with your own 2 hands be destroyed has a lot more of an emotional impact.

Have NPCs be able to run businesses but be pretty bad at it as a baseline and to make sure dead servers aren't literally devoid of life.

>>14821187

We told you about sitting to close to the screen, but you didn't listen

>>14837354

They'd also run out of "content" thrice as fast. The grind is only there to stop you from blasting through a game that barely has any content. Though I will give MMO devs the credit that it's probably hard to keep making content for an MMO when you have fags rushing through it anyway since they hit max level long ago, but that's what you get when you make on-rails MMOs.

It's a bad model in that it produces sub-par quality and can't possibly keep up with player demand unless that pad the game with endless grind and RNG loot drops that has you replay the same content over and over.

>>14836838

>People that played AC though, man did they swear by it, and it did sound really cool from all the forums and stuff I would read, but when my time in UO was coming to an end I jumped ship to DAoC and my life was ruined.

I left UO when Banana Boyz left for AC. I took like a month off of gaming for work before I did join back up with them in AC (Rak bought the Blood account IIRC). After a year or so we completely controlled the Darktide server. It got to the point the guild got so big by the time we officers started quitting for other games the new leaders moved the guild under a new account named Bloodtide.

I still have hundreds of screen shots of player kills. I'm dead serious about running an ACE pvp-only server for /v/ when it's combat ready.

>>14837301

The fact someone hasn't made the Neverwinter Nights of MMOs is a testament to not only how intellectually bankrupt modern developers are, but how also how much of a control freak every single one of them is. Imagine being able to set up your own servers with custom timelines, literal godlike gamemasters and factions made by players backed up by official, or maybe "canon" servers, for the sake of contrast.

>>14821227

FUCKING JAGUAR SOUNDS

MRRAAA-RAAAAA

IS THERE ONLY ONE FUCKING JAGUAR THAT HAS BEEN RECORDED IN FUCKING HISTORY, I KNOW ITS THE SAME ONE, WHEN I WAS A KID I HAD 2-3 MONSTER TOYS WHICH MADE THE SAME NOISE

NOW I'M 26 AND I HEAR THE SAME FUCKING NOISE

ITS THE SAME FUCKING JAGUAR I KNOW IT IS

>>14836691

Fuck man… I played all those games thinking "it's going to be so cool to see what MMOs are like in the future." Well, the future is here, and it blows. Only MMOs I occasionally play now are EVE and Wurm Online (or Unlimited with /v/ bros). Everything else is themepark grindshit.

>>14821187

Because it's a high risk making a good one. You either play it safe and make a WoW clone which will never be more than that, or you go all out trying to revolutionise the genre, but by doing this you go in the risk of sharing the fate with MMOs like Wildstar.

>>14838271

An actual economy would be nice too. You can only make weapons using iron, iron can only be found in mines or from scrapped iron objects, equipment included. Mines can run out, which means finding new mines, fighting over territory and alchemy suddenly become valuable.

Make it so that items are valuable enough that you don't want to drop them and if you do, they get instantly picked up by someone.

Have "volcanic activity" every now and then to add new iron ore to the world and at the same time put it in a dangerous location.

Have 2 styles of server, one that is permenant and one that resets every year to give new players a chance. Or you can make it so whoever completes an ascension quest resets the world but starts off having special powers in the next world.

And how about secret guilds, sorta like Vampires in VTMB. Where you try to avoid detection as long as possible.

And what about special titles only one pllayer can hold onto at a time, which encourages people to fight over the title.

>>14837903

>tfw Wilhelm screams destroy any pretend shred of disbelief I can muster for today's shit media

i'm 41. welcome to hell youngfriend

>>14821244

>You bitch and moan when randoms fuck up and you immediately queue up again, instead of laughing it off, going over what people fucked up, and absolutely killing it next time

yeah nah, retards are fucking retarded and 95% of the community for any game is completely braindead

>>14821187

>that

> better graphics and gameplay than any MMO released for PC in the past ten years

And MMOs died because it's the most hardcore genre. You're shit unless you can invest at least four hours a day and to be 'good', at least ten.

>>14837819

Could you explain please?

>>14838604

Case in point.

>>14838668

Case AND point, lest you reveal yourself to be a self-defeating "retard", mate.

Because everyone who wants to play WoW or a WoW-like is already playing WoW or their favorite WoW-like. If you want to make something other than WoW or a WoW-like for people disillusioned with WoW, your audience is going to be beyond niche. You don't have the budget to make anything impressive, so you're not going to snag anyone. It's stuck in a death spiral, where as more content comes out for WoW and WoW-likes the old guard have more sunk costs to keep them around.

>>14838414

Although Albion Online had it's own share of flaws. To create high tiered items, you had to start by creating higher tier items was required by having you use the prior tiers of material. To create a Tier VI metal, you needed to refine Tier VI metal ore with bars of Tier V metal. I do really like the idea of mines running out of metal ore and having to find new ones. Maybe also have volcanic activity occasionally also leave caverns that monsters might use for shelter.

The two server idea is pretty solid, although I also think an ascension would also be a neat feature, just so that those sort of players might become legends, choosing how they use their powers, whether it's showing off to the other players or just using it when they want to get a leg up on the others, have it be more up to them than anything else. You'd also would need to be upfront about the server being a lot more temporary than what they are used to otherwise it would rough. I think secret alliances would be pretty cool too, but VOIP would mess with that. Special titles are a nice feature too, especially since people could lord it over others (while it lasted)

WoW created the style of sandbox MMO that became the norm afterwards because every other idiot tried to profit off the success of it. Without WoW we could be having dedicated PvP MMOs in the vein of DAoC but that chance has passed. The new audience that Blizzard introduced to the genre swept aside the more refined tastes of the older players and anyone who wants to be successful has to pander to literal children now. That means no outlandish setting, no complicated mechanics and no bad feelings, ever. A game like UO, where you could potentially lose all your shit, would be unthinkable today.

>>14821258

I'm glad you mentioned FFXI. A friend and I have been looking for a new game to fill the void, and FFXI was one of our favorites of all time.

Are there any other MMOs out there that don't cater to "spastics"?

>>14839712

Really, I don't know. I heard good things about Project Gorgon but it also looks like it might suffer from the same hotbar whackamole and metagaming faggotry you see everywhere else. It's at least free last I checked.

>>14839769

>I'm so new I dont even know how to greentext OR pink text

t. some fag who plays like one hour a day because that's all his mommy lets him

>>14839775

At least I have a mommy, faggit.

>>14839778

too soon…

>>14836691

If you want definitive proof of WoW being the thing that killed the MMO. Just consider that it's possibly the main contributor to the term 'damage rotation' and how that mechanic is now almost analogous to MMOs. Despite the fact that it should be the anti-thesis of MMORPG game design.

Just take a Tabletop RPG for example. Imagine a game where regardless of the enemy you were facing or the situation you would do the exact same thing over and over again, every possible round. You can even take the Barbarian, which is by far the most aim-and-forget class in DnD, and you have to approach combat with questions.

>Do I spend a rage?

>Should I focus on ensuring that I hit or trying for maximum damage

>Can anything cc me?

>Should I position myself to keep others safe?

>How far will I need to move if something goes wrong?

>Do I put myself at risk for a better chance at hitting?

In MMO's it is now expected that a class has a rotation. A way to pump out maximum damage, however the very idea that a class can do that is an insult to game design. The play environment should never be so restricted and focused that +5% chance to hit is ALWAYS better than +1 damage. This design failure is tied directly into the shitty practices of Raiding. If raiding is literally the only end game content, then your character has to be able to do it. If this is the case then you are already doomed, because it can't exist without bad design. You will no longer be able to have 'tanky' characters with a 'spread' of damage and tools that live harmoniously with characters that do staggering amounts of burst damage or a character that has something helpful for hundreds of situations. This problem was exemplified in the very first version of WoW with Molten Core, where fire mages were useless (to be fair, more than 50% of all specs were actually useless in vanilla). MMORPGs should offer players choices. Do you focus on doing broadly applicable damage and resist most things? Great, you can go more places and not suck. But you also need to have the ability to decide "I really wan't to buttfuck spiders" and get tons of anti-poison stats and spider slaying abilities. And, the major point to this rant, THE ANTI-SPIDER PERSON NEEDS TO OUTDO OTHER PLAYERS IN SPIDER FIGHTS BY A MASSIVE MARGIN! And I'm certain that you can already hear the theoretical forums complain. "The ranger is so much stronger than literal parties of characters in the only raid, it isn't fair that they can just chew through it like that." Where the real complaint should be that there is only one endpoint of the game when there should be hundreds or thousands.

This is the kind of character choice that an MMO needs. The ability to be different, so as to create imbalances that social interaction and game mechanics can be made to fit. I decide that I want to have a werewolf hunter character, so I focus on that. I build my character to best combat them stat wise, get silver equipment, set up a home in an area with a werewolf problem. I get money that I can use to maintain and upgrade my equipment, donate to my political faction, decorate my house, have fun gambling it away, or spreading the coin around at the local tavern to up my reputation with the NPCs. My friends come on and want me to join, so I do. We don't fight werewolves, so I'm not at peak effectiveness, but my silver weapons do work on undead, and a few of my skills become applicable. At a later date, we'll decide to go werewolf hunting, where I'll kick all kinds of ass and see my friends hold their own with a bunch of equipment and abilities that I never get to see. It isn't that hard of a thing to design for, but we'll never see it. At least not as long as WoW continues to poison the genera.

>>14839885

Another problem with WoW is that there really isn't any sort of long term consequences for anything aside from blowing one of the handful of 30 minute cooldown abilities. They almost got health and magic management down but then pussied out and made it easy to just buy infinite food and water for chump change, or literally free for one class.

>>14822085

>>14833677

The fact that MMOs were never like the top pic is the reason why MMOs are shit. The worlds aren't interesting; the npcs/other players/monsters/locations aren't important as story elements, they're just props representing in-game points. This is why I play GURPs and not online shit; I want to experience a story

>>14839922

In beta (god it was such a better game then) playing a warrior there was actually an interesting balance of keeping rage up and healing/eating. At least at low levels.

Details like this is where development is most behind where it should be. Trying to find the correct balance of time investment/sink and power as well as being able to just pop in and do something. I believe that there is a balance there. In fact I can even name the exact mechanics you could use to implement it, though without any hard numbers, so I will.

A gameplay delta needs to be adopted. This being the amount of 'progress' a player can achieve for their time investment. Meaning killing X number of creatures, gathering Y amount of materials and so on. Much in the same way Wizards of the Coast has a chart of how much mana should get what kind of effect (which they have long ago thrown out, but I digress). NPC interactions, items, skills and settings should allow players to achieve this level or perhaps slightly above it through specific means. Lets use WoW food/drink mechanic as an example. Players are expected to lose X life per Y battles. So they are expected to eat/drink Z amount per Y battles. With leveled food, you simply buy it from the merchant and can get by. Or, you could cook your food and receive the health as well as a slight buff to your stats. This is possibly as close as WoW gets to a 'good' mechanic. Sure, it's behind a horrifically stupid grind that releases some new 'catch up' food periodically, but the structure is sound. If players don't want to be bothered with a mechanic they should be given the ability to negate it to a certain amount but not be allowed to benefit highly from it.

Lets postulate a better food system. One that isn't just healing/mana regen. You just legitimately need food to live. Eating will simply fill up a hunger bar, but depending on what you eat you will receive different benefits. Thus preparing by buying raw ingredients to take with you, harvesting on the move, and taking time to cook all become important factors in keeping your health up, but also give you several bonuses. While not eating will result in slowly stacking debuffs. If a player doesn't want to deal with this, they shouldn't need to. An option to buy 'rations' should be there for them to 'equip' to remove the mechanic for an easier time. You could even include an upgraded version for a much higher cash investment for the player in game if they want at least a few of the bonuses. Thus the player who just wants to go around isn't forced to take part in the more complex gameplay, but the player that does will get a number of benefits.

Think of it as the contribution points or fatigue points that are popular in newer MMO's. Their biggest problem is that they force a certain play-style (which is very good for their bottom dollar but bad for players). You HAVE to use those points in order to gain the benefit. Well, what if you had the option to forgo the actions that required it. Basically settling for a lower amount of advancement for no time investment. Yes, it does cater a little to the 'i want it now' crowd, but the idea is that if they don't want to do something they shouldn't be forced to and the people that do get a reward.

That was a little off topic. The point being that by adopting this type of 'opt out' option you can put in more systems for players to actually have to invest in. Basically have long term consequences, but acknowledge that some people will inevitably want to play things safe. Also consider something like having a camping skill to survive out in the wilds at night, things becoming much more dangerous in general. Some people don't care about camping, thus when sundown comes they make their way back to town for safety. That person who didn't care about camping instead worked on his characters socialization skills and spends time hanging out with NPC's at the tavern.

>>14839499

Want some more wierd ideas?

There are 2 strange guilds. One are the librarians who seek knowledge and basically manage the wiki.

The other guild helps secret societies by vandalizing the said wiki with fake knowledge or by removing references of secret societies.

The said secret societies could be anything from vampires, vigilante groups to secret demon summoning cults.

>>14840565

you can always play..

Champions Online

hehehe

HAHAHAHAHA

>>14836691

To be fair every RP server I went to was a cringefest. Good times.

>14840565

Ah NCSoft, the company that tells its customers to be grateful for free content patches in a $60 game with a monthly subscription.

Okay it was NCWest but still.

>>14840790

Meant for >>14840565

>>14840186

I think another problem with all of these survival and camping type things in MMOs is that it feels like every area in a game is already colonized by the time you're allowed to play it. If it was possible for players themselves to carve out expeditions, maybe randomly generated islands or something, then the whole thing would feel less arbitrary.

What if we had a game that was two-tiered. The first is that the top level is that the players work together to gather/protect their factions resources. Players can be both a combat class and some kind of crafter/gatherer. The main idea is to build walls around your land to stop the other faction from accruing more resources than your faction for example.

If your faction ends up producing strong enough gear, it can go on raids (which will likely need to be fortified from the enemy faction) so that the raiders can bring back magic/stronger crafting gear that overall benefits the whole faction.

This way even if you've only got like 30mins to play, you can still cut some wood for some forts or something. I imagine that this would get more complicated with guilds and things forming, each with their own goals. Like, one guild might be full of hardcore raiders, while some RPer's might just end up running a cleregy or something.

The main idea would be to overrun the opposing faction, but I imagine some kind of pushback effect would keep happening perpetually at around 30% of the map where the other faction is just too stretched thin to function, or a guild backdoors the enemy and starts to box them in.

or maybe just have a forced uncap for each side where they can push back from

>>14821187

because you're not making a good one.

Player counts that would have been amazing back in the day are now considered dead games. Maybe you place to much value on what other people are playing.

>>14842138

It's because investors are retarded assholes and the people who enable them want it to stay this way as it keeps out competition.

>>14821233

>They are not?

>Statement formulated as a question.

Disgusting, go back to reddit.

So, out of curiosity, what are the actually "good" MMOs that are still alive? The only one that I know of is the original PSO.

>>14842038

You could creat multiple factions, with certain points on the map for those factions. At low levels they dont interfere with each other, but if a camp gets large (based on player activity in the zone getting enough points for it to level up) the points will begin to interefere with each other. Like restricting droprares or roads. Players compete in two ways. Bringing in tons of resources to advance as well as attack the opposite faction to stop them. With just a few quallifiers like general balancing, garing how quickly a faction is driven out, and unique bonuses and weaknesses factions have for this mechanic you could have a world PvP system that wasnt trash.

Too many games, too many WoW clones. No one tries anything new or cannot because of money.

>>14821187

The simplest explanation, to me, is that they are whalers, vampirical casino simulators meant to attract, hold and suck dry as many 'whales' and general customers as possible for the least amount of work and maintenance costs, then reinvest that money to repeat the process or run off with their ill-gotten gains.

>>14833677

>>14840158

It's all in the head of the newbie.

>>14842466

In short, they used to be a virtual frontier and turned into virtual gulags.

Seconding that MMO gulag post. As an aside, why did Koreans take the shittiest aspects of western progression design and refuse to iterate on it in a fun way while making solid gameplay? It's like serving lasagna, but you top it with string cheese from the supermarket.

>elsword

>blade n soul

>kritika

>freejack

>tera

Are they autistic?

>>14847098

There's something about the Korean spirit that impels them to always make the stupidest decisions possible, be it invading Japan, promoting e-sports or thinking wingdings would make for a good national language.

>>14842717

That's kinda what I was going for, actually. The main idea would be to actually win, but I doubt it'd be something that actually happens without the full cooperation of everyone on the server.

>>14847109

Capped.

>>14839712

FFXI is getting a remake for mobile

Hope it's any good. I skipped out on the OG FFXI cuz my internet was shit back then.

>>14822085

I don't understand this argument. Why do the devs need to make anything at all? Some of the most fun I've ever had in PvP in WoW was vanilla PvP was outside of Gadgetzan. No dev probably intended that to be the case, but it was still a bustling hotbed of PvP regardless. Devs these days think they need to create a little maze inside which they do their best to make the linear hallway the best experience possible, which ignores the fact that WoW was always the best when the boundaries were removed so that fun could be found. Yes Thottbot and Wowhead did a number on the immersion of the game, but it was only because there was a constant whine from the faggot playerbase that everything was too hard and that everyone should be able to do a certain thing.

>>14842479

This. Truly disgusting and annoying as fuck when people do that. Is this a millennial thing, or is it just an effeminate passive-aggressive way of speaking?

>>14847748

He was talking about Tera so I assumed it was just some gook.

>>14842038

Actually WoW did this, exactly once. In the buildup for the Ahn'Qiraj opening in vanilla, the entire server's faction could submit otherwise valuable materials to unlock their faction's raid earlier. Cloth for bandages, ore, etc. Everyone had to contribute. It was great, and it was a very memorable experience. I think it was tailored to be inclusive of all player levels too, so you had requirements for linen cloth, a low level material, as well as silk cloth, a higher level material. Shit was great, and I never understood why they didn't do that. I also never understood why they started adding so much instancing as well, but I digress.

>>14833677

the image is an EverQuest ref and the game was like that :)

Because they're all the same game, which we already beat.

I just started Black Desert Online the other day. Advice?

>>14847763

>>14847768

I remember reading about one of the lead designers whining about how that event caused their servers too much stress or some shit and that's why they never did anything like it ever again. Pretty much every change made to the game can be attributed to them wanting an easier job and not actually making it more fun.

>>14847748

>>14842479

>muh this

<redditfag: go back to reddit

Only one way to solve one and done posting faggotteers

>>>/gaschambers/

>>14833677

Every MMO I've ever played by myself has been like the top part of the image. Every time I try playing an MMO with other people, it ends up like the bottom part of the image. I just want a big world to explore, and some things to do in that world, and just about any MMO can tick that box for me. Unfortunately, the core playerbase in every game always seems to have this burning need to rush through the game as quickly and efficiently as possible, making sure to avoid as much content as possible. If you're not spending all of your time in-game performing repetitive tasks over and over to get items with better numbers in order to do more repetitive tasks, you're apparently playing the game wrong.

>>14847790

>they're all the same game

What about the world, or the characters in that world? If you just want to mindlessly click shit to get a higher number, go and play cookie clicker.

>>14847942

No I want to play a glorified cookie clicker with primitive enbed social media.

>>14847051

Kek, I see now thank you

>>14847861

Possibly one of the things that pissed me off most in the game. To any objective observer the event was designed to fuck over servers as much as possible, with the only capitulation that it was in a less common area of the game. And since they weren't able to fix anything for Diablo 3's release I'm pretty certain that Blizzard is the common variable in all of this.

You created a literal one time ever event. Not only one time, but only one hour, ever. You even put a mount behind a guild quest so ONE person in the guild had a chance of getting the reward. So to see, participate, or get one of the rarest things in the game you had to be ready to pop onto the server in an instant. I still remember the problems of people trying to ensure that everyone who worked at it got the chance for the reward only for some cunt to server transfer over and steal it. Blizzard says they're against a 'toxic community' but they had and defended a mechanic that allowed a person to steal a one time item from a whole server.

Anyways. They used the server issues as an excuse not to do larger world content ever again, when the supply drive for the war effort had no effect on that and was one of the best parts of the game. Though I guess that's just Blizzards motto, "We will implement this poorly so we can justify not doing it sooner or again."

>>14849218

>but only one hour, ever

I thought it was all day, counting the invasion and then the door opening.

>>14821187

>MMOs on PC dead (

Best mmo is BDO and its on PC, shill. And there's like 10 more decent MMOs. If you're into MMOs anyway.

They're going to release mobile version though. Perhaps Koreans already have it.

>>14821246

>Warframe

>a decade old

What is it 2023 already? Oh right you're retarded.

>>14849572

bdo is garbage, its not the "best" anything. all it has is a very detailed character creator but who the fuck cares, only autistic retards obsess over how pretty their PC is, you're not even looking at it closely most of the time

>>14847861

The reason they never did it again was it was pure cancer with massive amounts of whining, in-fighting, and invasions of smaller servers by guys with the money to effectively buy the mount then transfer away. All the smaller server communities basically wound up looted. It was a pretty ugly period in WoW's history, they just weren't prepared to handle the force they raised against themselves.

>>14849701

Maybe if Blizzard didn't spend so much time banning people for saying mean words in chat they'd have concocted a solution to this simple problem.

>>14849744

It would never work today even if executed properly as players are now too entitled and indepdendent.

>>14849817

There's a reason I used a past tense.

>asking /v/ about MMOs

Everyone here just plays casual shit like Overwatch, Team Fortress 2, and 2hu.

>>14849823

It makes no sense if talking about old Blizz as they weren't into the censorship & SJW stuff back then. Sam even praised the auction house bombing video.

>>14849427

Was it? It's been so long I barely remember.

>>14850130

Every source of 10 hours I can find is either basing it off of private servers or the anniversary event they apparently added at one point but I specifically remember going to bed the night it happened and it was still going on when I got up.

>>14849851

2hu is singleplayer

>WoW invented MMOs

Holy shit you obvious newfags are retarded

So… Black Desert Online is at a 50% discount. Is that the cheaper I can find it?

>>14852416

Black Desert Online is a Massively Multplayer Single Payer Game.

Genre is far from dead, not even taking private servers into account.

Been playing mapleroyals for a bit and it's surprisingly fun when private servers circumvent the whole p2w aspect turning it into an actual game.

Wish I could go back to the first expansion of FXIV, before they made crafting a fulltime job and gave every job multiple things to track just for the sake of it.

>>14852416

Black desert will be overwhelmingly dissapointing to you after the initial world exploration and feature exploration dies, then the only thing fun will be jumping out of a roadside bush knocking AFK horse trainers and item runners off their horses in safe zone for laughs

>>14852662

I thought you'd be disappointed in it right after the character creation menu.

>>14852683

>>14852662

I guess there is not much roleplay presence?

>>14852694

I don't really tend to RP but I can tell you everyone gets to wear the same 1-2 things without cash shop buying yourself some outfit 60 other people in your area already wear regularly so I imagine its dead.

>>14851231

WoW brought Massive into Multiplayer Online :^)

I have been saying this for a year now, especially in Wurm threads. The only interesting way to play MMO's after all these years is to have it set up like a table top, where a player has access to mod tools/GM tools to be a DM. He helps turn the narrative within the world. No more npc quests, some traveller will ask a player town in their tavern about nearby rumors. This circumvents all previous single player questing/grinding/text skipping. The GM determines where and how progression is given. This was done a lot in early MMO's, my only experience was in Dransik Classic where a GM played as the actual evil lord described in the game's lore. It made sense, and upon death he drops the 2nd strongest weapon. The game developer also was in the game's lore, and he would show up often (in his castle, Lotor's castle) to tell stories or spawn rare mobs/events, and have chaos ensuing with 100+ people.

>>14821187

When it comes to mmorpg's, everything has been said and done.

The only way for them to come back is to create other types of mmos which is why battle royale is so popular, it's basically a good mmofps.

>>14854196

The fuck is bless online? can you play as big humanoids?

>>14854196

Common tactic. Blizzard does it all the fucking time. Anytime there's a Paladins event Overwatch gets a free weekend.

>>14854273

some korean MMO thats been getting "hyped" around the internet lately, it releases on the 31st.

>>14854307

Is sandbox or usual korean shit? In Black Desert you can at least parkout.

>>14854335

no no, sandbox is a thing like eevee online, bless is more usual korean shit. Hence why i posted about BDO lowering their price right before the release of a competitor.

>>14854416

I still have 2 hours to go to a close store and buy a steam card to get the full edition, but I wonder if they would make the game cheaper.

>>14854442

i dont think so, at least not this week, but maybe the next one depending on how well it sells.

either way, i tried a free trial of BDO and uninstalled about 5 minutes in, as soon as i saw the "line" that is basically the threadmill that takes you from start to finish without letting you explore on your own i was completely turned off, on top of not really having any friends to play with.

>>14854478

Well, it's already late and I don't want to dress up. I'll skip it for the next time.

>>14854499

BDO has a free trial, at least you can give that a go, i did and like i said, didn't like it.

>>14854527

Another question. Do the game have servers or an universal hub?

>>14854751

They are more like channels in a maplestory sense of the idea, if I rememeber right,with regional Serbs. If you are below a certain number of hours/level/activity, they'll throw you in a sort of refresher group of channels, that you're free to leave if you want. Then it's just the rest of the game at that point.

>>14854879

Ah, ok, so I can move everywhere with my character. Good to know.

>>14854879

But if I can say something before you decide to commit yourself to the game, be warned that if you have any issues with the idea of subscriptions disguised as "value packs","sponsor boxes" or whatever nonsensical name you can come up, abandon all hope ye who enter here. The game basically makes their pack more of a necessity to play than Runescape membership. If I rememeber right one of the things it did was remove the "market tax" that the item market you'll learn soon enough it's not an auction house in anything but name had, which was 20% of anything you sold. Some people might claim that you can get away with not having it in that sense, but they are lying to themselves if they don't say that you are shooting yourself in the foot for selling things and not buying it. For instance, a brand new ogre ring worth 90+ mil closer to 100 really is going to be sold instantly (by the market standards) regardless of the price you put on it, but you're going to only see 75 mill at the most but more likely about 70 for not doing it. If I had more time, I'd fully explain it's issues, but if you have a free trial try it and see how you feel

>>14854939

>try to sell item for 100m

>only get 75

what happens to the rest of the money? does it vanish into thin air?

>>14821187

postmodernist sjw shitted up the gaming industry just like everything else in america

>>14857237

Thin fucking air.

To make it even funnier, the auction house also is a shit show, when you put an item up for auction, the thing has a 50/50 of either being up for bid or up for reserve. If it goes reserve, it's a crap shoot for who gets it. Supposedly who gets it depends on who has the most money put in, but I've seen a guy rage because his 800 mil reserve lost to a guy bragging about getting the same item for 350 mil. If it's bid, there is no real bidding, it's also rng.

Oh, and if some guy bought your basic ass logs that are worth 800 silvers each for 40k each due to how the games worker system works, I've seen people spend more for it do you know how much you get? However much you out up for it, the reserve is so the market can hold these items for the buyer.

>>14857367

how can you fuck up an auction house system this badly? its the simplest fucking thing.

FFXI released in 2002 and it had a perfectly functional auction system, with a couple of gimmicks and downsides sure (such as only being able to purchase items in units or stacks of 12), but it was functional, it served its purpose, and the "tax" for using it was very small, like 1% maybe?

>>14821606

I recognize that name.

>>14857402

It's mostly because it's another facet of how they sell their value packs, mind you people can also buy them and sell them on the market as well although the pearl (irl cash) items can't be reserved. Other highlights include a mild experience bonus, usable bank space (you think the f2p storage is fine until you start using the worker empire) , a good amount of weight while I'm perfectly fine with cash having weight, it's going to be painful training unless you don't pick any thing up among other things.

Simple, MMOs are played by high IQ individuals such as Koreans who have achieved test scores time and again to have the highest average IQ in the world. They have MMO history that goes as far back as Kingdom of the Winds and Lineage, giving birth to two of the biggest video game companies in the world.

Now look at the average mouth breathing retard in this shithole. One, all the old users left and you're left with 4chan and reddit refuse. Two, even back when 8ch didn't exist when was the last time chan managed to show high level of skill?

You newfags wouldn't know but the few achievements were made by having a high headcount in the server and all guilds eventually succumbed to retarded drama.

So in summary MMOs are fine, the game probably just wasnt made for your two digit IQ self.

You're welcome to aperg out and desperately deny this truth.

>>14857532

you're thinking of RTS

>>14821187

Im f2p in L2R. Game is not too bad. Takes very little effort to do well. Especially if you use an emulator and a few macros.

Large time investment for very little payoff.

Subscription fees.

Commitments that may interfere with real-world activities.

Tedious, repetitive gameplay (grinding)

No real way for a story to develop, meaning there's no real hook to keep playing

Literally everything you get from an MMO you can get from a free phone game and play anywhere.

>>14857532

MMOs are just time consuming not challenging.

>>14847098

whenever you do world building to this scale, be it for a book's lore or for an mmo, you can't help but showcase your own views on reality & existence.

i imagine for koreans life is suffering, it's a fruitless grind, and that life outlook is reflected in their games.

>>14858361

I guess there is no true sandbox MMO anymore besides EVE.

Maybe I'll try Mortal Online again if they fixed their shitty lag problem.

>>14858423

>no sandbox

ALL WE HAD TO DO WAS WAIT FOR THE SUMMER WURM SERB YOU DISCFAGS

The clusterfuck that was that serb still hurts but I still had fun being comfy, with as little as I could play

You'd think with all the calls for a more sandbox mmo some Dev would have capitalized on it by now, even with publishers pushing for what has worked before.

So what are the available options? What's the best on the market?

>>14859008

That's like picking your favorite turd from the pavement.

>>14859008

options for what? what kinda game do you want?

>>14859008

EVE Online will hopefully un-fuck itself, since the tranny quit the company.

>>14858983

I thought we were trying again in June? As for devs capitalizing on sandbox, I think people are actually too retarded to play them if they are more than a glorified deathmatch like Rust. I know that was the case with Life is Feudal MMO where the main complaint was the world was too big and they didn't know what to do. Quests really are the greatest cancer to have affected sandbox enthusiasts.

>>14859513

i dont think mmo and sandbox really mesh well, unless im only seeing the downsides. All the rpg type games i've enjoyed had a sprawling world with a lot to do in it.

is there a way to balance immersion and time invested? does a game need to be time consuming to be immersive?

>>14821233

>warframe

>good

You've got to be joking, nigger

>>14859513

Wait, is it happening again? Well shit, now I finally have some time off, and hopefully can get my bro in as well. Also

>too retarded to play sandbox MMOS that aren't a murderhobo simulator.

I can actually see that. People these days really don't want to go for immersion these days, and it's a fucking shame. I don't really know how a game like life is feudal (what it looked like to me was a more fantasy survival crafting game) gets people who ask, "What do we do?" When the game pretty much hands you a world to build on. Beyond the idea of having quests point you to something interesting in the world (or maybe a rare event that happens in a certain area) I agree that quests truly are a cancer to sandbox games, however.

>>14859652

With sandbox a lot of the gameplay is built on what you and other people do because of shit happening in the world and what other players are doing.

With Wurm (at least with /v/ bros) for instance, it might be a regular day of comfy grinding, but you might see or hear a troll enter the town, or end up getting conscripted into a Crusade to remove monsters around the town or HoTS. In a way you and everyone get out what you and the others put in. Even dumb shit like someone stealing a single frying pan can spark a whole fucking witch hunt.

>>14821215

>But """normalfags""" are 98% of the Android playerbase

Yes, for games like Candy Crush, MOBA shit and big names like PUBG. The rest is pretty much untouched imo.

>>14839712

Just play FFXI Nasomi, it's 2005 era with a large population

>>14860759

the only bad thing about nasomi is the rulecucks. they will ban you if you say bad words or even if you use plugins that aren't the Nasomi™ Approved plugins

>>14836552

They're still up and the past few days the game has been getting some small graphical updates such as being able to double view distance and disable the LOD system.

>>14821187

>why are MMOs dead?

Because they refuse to innovate the genre. It's all a cash grab attempt for most new MMOs.

This is my breakdown for a Better MMO…

Lore:

>Deeper Lore

>Better Storylines

You need to engage the players. Also if you capture the imagination of the autistic lore nerds they will shill your game to kingdom come.

>Grand Storylines

>Faction Storylines

>Character Storylines

>Player-Influenced and player-made storylines

The companies running the games need to be able to take good storylines the players come up with and run with them

Factions:

>NPC Factions that players can join

>Player Factions that they can set up

NPC factions guarentee a place where the noobs and casuals can meet and greet. It's also a great launching off point to starting a player faction.

Customization:

Enough with the basic bullshit MMOs keep throwing at us. Black Desert Online and EVE Online (for basically just the face but still) have fucking great character customization. Either make sure everyone can create the character they want or stop fucking making your game

Crafting:

>needs to be engaging

>needs to be the primary source of player's gear

>players need to be able to craft everything in the game

>there can still be an NPC safety net of items though, but player-made gear needs to always be better

>entire groups dedicated to being the best crafters in the game

Mentioning EVE again. I'm from ProviBloc and I know that if I want a Capital ship and don't want to be led into a trap to get ganked I need to order it from Sanctuary Pact alliance.

Economy:

>EVE Online model

>full fledged market simulation

>speculation, ups and downs, moral gray areas

>hire a fucking economist to design it you fucking cheapskates

To quote Dr. Eyjo:

>"This would be any economist's dream, because this is not just an experiment, this is more like a simulation. More like a fully fledged system where you can input to see what happens."

>"it was a giant social and economic experiment" "it is an alternative universe that is just out there and needs to be studied like any other universe."

Skills/Professions

No two characters should ever be the same

>no more cookie cutter classes

>open skill tree

>players pick whatever the fuck they want to be

Exploration

>like lore nerds there are exploration geeks

>humans love to explore shit and you need to give them an effective avenue to do so

Othershit:

>dying needs to mean something

>either heavy monetary value or some other type of consequences

>the possibility of heavy death penalty leads to players being far more willing to group up to face the unknown together

>>14868182

I think what I really like with your group of ideas is that a lot of this would essentially push players to forming up in groups rather than being left to the mercy of those groups. The faster people realize that they have to actually socialize with people and get rewarded for it, the better. I'd say maybe add to some areas (a barely noticeable cave here, an oasis in a desert there) that have more dangerous monsters to better cement grouping up, or maybe with some type of treasure to help push for searching every nook and cranny.

But this would definitely be more to do with building a world instead of just a game. All of these races and kingdoms in your world don't just suddenly vanish when a new expansion pack or patch comes out. You write in your game's history about some subterranean race that once held sway over all things, you shouldn't be surprised if you can rarely find architecture which causes revulsion on the primal level to your very self, even more so when you find what should be an ancient beyond ancient stairway down into dark depths actually look recently used. Or perhaps instead you find out that the Tolkein Elves once attempted to colonize the swamp your character is currently slogging through and perhaps chance over some old supply caches with sadly rotting food, but maybe with medical supplies (through magical means) still in decently usable condition.

Things that add to your world and isn't the same house asset but painted blue with a couple of crystals or red and covered in fire.

>>14871273

unless you have a dedicated team of basement NEETs living on daddys money/government/already rich thats going to get you a few days of labor depending on team size, with any game labor is the real cost aside from publishes spening 80 times that in advertising like the foolish fuck they are.

>>14871273

There was some MMO a guy made in the vein of a NES era RPG that I would imagine had a budget in that range. I can't remember the name.

>>14871320

Fuck no. I mean it legitimately looked like a NES game complete with first person battles and everything. I think it actually had NES in the title but I can't seem to find anything.

>>14868182

>No two characters should ever be the same

They will all just pick the most efficient/simple build once someone figures out what it is. If there is respeccing, people will just do that. If there isn't, people will just drop the game after finding out that their character isn't anywhere as good as the best builds or make another character.

>dying needs to mean something

>either heavy monetary value or some other type of consequences

Now you've ensured that no one ever wants to take a risk and will only use the most cookie cutter builds. Actually, they'll probably avoid risk in general and avoid challenging content. Also, if you aren't already part of a high end group you'll be fucked when it comes to finding people for challenging content, because no one will want to risk getting killed by the new guy fucking something up. I see this even in MMOs where death is fairly cheap, so it would only be worse if death was really punishing.

>>14871273

That would be a couple months of development time for a single person, that's not enough to make anything beyond a shitty Unity game. And there's no such thing as Unity for massively multiplayer networking.

WOW ruined MMO's for me thanks to everyone under the fucking sun trying to clone it. And while few didn't many have failed for doing just that.

>>14871328

NEStalgia?

>Grinders get to final level in Bless

>Players find out they cut out all of the end game that was in the release of every other region for years

>It's even more shit than anyone could have imagined

https://streamable.com/rzmv8

>>14872272

Yeah that's it.

>>14878492

Thank you for finding this. It blows my mind any anon here would believe such a piece of shit gook grinder would ever be good, unless it was korean shills all along.

>>14878492

Glad I told my friend I won't play with them since videos looked boring. Last time I payed for GW2 I didn't like it and wasted money. Deserved since I know I can't like the ugly western feminist art.

>>14878629

Literally every single person praising it was doing so while posting images with 15x time stamps so it should be obvious who the culprits were.

>>14854273

>The fuck is bless online?

It makes "grown" man cry. But not for the reasons you think.

>>14879149

>im a 29 year old military veteran who breaks down at cries at the thought of a shit game that everyone knows is shit because it brings absolutely nothing new to the table being confirmed shit

at first its funny but around the 5 minute mark this just gets pathetic. come on you stupid fuck, this game was going to be shit from day 1, the question was HOW shit, and the answer was massively shit.

>>14879149

>>14879345

People like this are why online gaming is miserable now. It's just a dumping ground of sad failures instead of weirdos.

>>14879149

this is fucking embarassing i don't know what else to say or think about this guy

I have never liked 90% of a MMOs. I can barely tolerate FF XIV which is a game of mainting the job bar if you strip that shit down.

>>14879384

>crying over a video game A GODDAMN VIDEO GAME!

>>14879423

Oh yeah. That's a spergplosion waiting to happen.

>>14879149

This is probably the personification of every dude who desperately wants to relive the early MMO days and therefore supports every scam out there in the hope something will stick. That video is the realization that Chinks and early access scams are not to be trusted.

>>14879423

Those dudes that put their fucking life savings into that shit are a ticking time-bomb in my eyes. God only knows what they'll do once the truth hits them.

>>14879423

How can it fail if the ride never ends?

>>14879611

The truth will overcome CiG eventually. The entire constellation is very fragile. I have met the first supporter who isn't cool with Robert's practices IRL.

>>14879655

>But why would you not go for a long term success?

Because only short term earnings matter. At least they do in the west which is why so many publishers rather burn an IP to the ground for a quick buck, then try to maintain it over a longer period of time to have a steady money flow.

Don't know how gooks think in that regard, but all of it just looks like a quick cash grab until they forget that it even exists.

>>14879655

>how the fuck do you screw up releasing a game

>Why on earth would you talk about and put features into your game, have it go as far as beta testing, have people POSITIVELY respond to it because it's new, interesting, and adds a unique angle to your game, only to gut it from the game and just slap another gook grinder out onto the shelves

they made the exact game they were looking to, not some idealized version you or that guy might have in your heads. if you honestly think they were driven by passion and a desire to put THE BEST CLASSIC MMO EVAR!! out then you bought into the marketing and were duped just like him.

>>14879714

>thinking I had hopes for the game

>implying I didn't bin any idea about it as soon as I heard, "it's what you play when you want BDO to be good again"

Even if you say, "It's what they wanted" then why even put in the time and money to even pretend that you'll have the features in there. The amount of money you'd save by not even attempting to include these things would be far greater than going through with a half assed project. Hell you could argue it'd be even better if they just spent more time making cosmetics or more areas to grind in. It's not just this game that does it, plenty of other games have done this recently. It's one thing if the thing just doesn't pan out. You can't really call it an "idealized version" when a game flat out says, "We are going to have these features in the game, here they are in beta".

That's not even getting into the other part of my post you ignored, namely the fact the game itself not only lacks endgame features the other games have but actually includes many bugs the initial release had. At least >>14879706 brings up the point it was more likely because of short term earnings until it fades into gook grinder obscurity, but fact that a steady cash flow could easily help keep overhead going rather than a quick burst and then people questioning why their dead, copycat games make them no money. Maybe it is partially due to market over-saturation, but someone dealing with these things should have realized by now that making a product bordering on imitation isn't going to make people stop playing the games they already play just to pick up the exact same, mediocre product to drop because they already are further in more or less the exact same game.

>>14879706

>>14879784

Game development has just been a pump and dump for animation studios and Hollywood for over a decade now. No one cares if the games does well short or long term because the game itself was never actually the product.

>>14879784

>then why even put in the time and money to even pretend that you'll have the features in there

to dupe suckers, to make even more money. that you bought into it, are perplexed, and don't feel absolutely lied to or cheated just shows how valid such a tactic is.

>>14879811

Not doubting what you are saying, but isn't the guy calling for lawsuits (whether you could actually get to them for false advertising or whether they would actually follow through notwithstanding) and trying to raise awareness for others actually represent the feeling of being lied to or cheated?

Apparently however, I just checked one of the twitter posts and they apparently have not only had a lot of people telling them to refund their game, but Steam has dropped support of the game altogether, going as far as to allow people to refund no matter how many hours they have on it.

>>14879655

On one hand I get how he feels, but on the other if he was a jaded asshole like me he'd know not to expect anything nice and this could all have been prevented. Chinks are absolutely retarded and can't do anything right. They fucked up BDO because muh casual marketshare, so I fully expect some higher up faggot told the devs to can whatever features people liked from the beta because it was too "different" from the rest of the garbage MMOs out there, but really who the hell knows how those ant-people think?

I have not a single good word to say about Korean/Chinese MMOs.

>>14821187

I have this conversation too fucking often to be honest.

MMOs are dead because of greed. Founders packs, p2w cash shops, RAMPANT shills, disgusting mechanics that you can then 'pay' to get around (Fast teleport but travel is made very cumbersome 'because muh immersion' or some other stupid reason).

The worst part is that any game that looks even remotely good will basically seep in founders-hell, and even a 'decent' looking game hasn't been around that is willing to go Cosmetics-Only cash shop.

I believe a lot of people are okay with 'Ingame OR $$$' subscriptions, as long as they're not too wild, and are always available in some way with ingame currency.

Pay4Convenience as a way for these MMOs to 'seem' non-p2w is also very disgusting as of lately( see: Bless TP pay, PoE's tabs, etc).

There's more data they can freely get from you on mobile so most likely they are selling that to make sure they get a higher bare minimum per player, and gameplay can be a bit more interesting because they're making everything including the UI without trying to 'copy' decades of old shit MMOs and the 1-2 successes that were still actually shit.

Whales, shills and "This one will be great!" fags are what's really killing it, willing to accept shit and praising any company for giving them a heaping serving until they find out it's shit, and damn anyone who dares to complain.

>>14879345

I mean to be honest, the background doesn't help your argument. If you're trying to find something cathartic and we all know of how great an MMO 'can' be, but all these companies fall short with absolute shit, and then on top of that super shill and release total shit like this, despite getting your hopes up for years, it can break a man down.

Anyone with common sense dealing with this as long as from EQ obviously should have known it would be shit, the signs were all there and if they really cared they would have played the other release versions a bit, they had years.

They didn't, they didn't really have hope, or they would have had it years ago.

That said the crying is understandable if you understand that he's either an idiot, or hasn't played so many MMOs to be as disappointed yet acclimated with the industry as he should be.

They were a fad to lure normalfags and deceive them, making them spend more money.

The fad died, and new fads were fabricated by the industry to keep deceiving the idiots.

>>14876405

Networking is still Hard. It was too hard for gamedevs and they've mostly given up and switched to P2P with simple state replication.

>>14876405

There's honestly nothing, you could try a modified version of eAthena but it would be super dated and you'd be more or less forced into RO's perspective. I've seen a few people do similar though, but you have to look around for where they have on their forums the modified clients (non official RO one), and do a lot of the client stuff yourself I believe.

>>14883881

Huh. Is this another thing holding MMOs back at this point?

>>14860487

Same. I keep praying for non jewish private servers

>>14868182

So you just want FFXIV without the WoW taint? Xiv's biggest weakness is that it's a mmo. If that game was a single player game it would be a 10/10 game in my eyes.