e60525 No.14097586
Series the Open World meme has killed
>MGS
>Batman
>The Switcher
>Zelda
Why do casuals love big empty maps so much?
bdc184 No.14097604
4dc583 No.14097611
Take the map of Majora's mask and compare it to breath of the wild on equal scale. MM comes up much more empty than BotW. The problem isn't emptiness, it's lack of greater dungeons. Give it MM-sized dungeons and you have the best of both worlds.
>Batman
>A video game series
I'll give you witcher and MGS.
e60525 No.14097639
>>14097604
These were all series that were good until they went open world.
b884f3 No.14097653
>>14097586
"Open World" is a genre, like any genre, there are right ways and wrong ways to do it.
Elder Scrolls is the wrong way of doing open worlds, because you end up railroaded to the same linear paths anyways because of poor level design and quest scaling.
Breath of the Wild is a better way of doing open world, because the games mechanics and world design encourage the player to explore from the path and it feels less like a bunch of empty wasted space.
Then you get REALLY SHITTY ways of doing open world like Wind Waker where the entire world literally is just empty wasted space
b884f3 No.14097658
>>14097653
Although I will admit BotW is really brought down by its shitty copy-paste dungeons. They might as well have not had any Shrines, or at least get rid of half of them easily and it would've made no difference to the experience
16226c No.14097661
Although asylum is my favorite of the series, I think the traveling mechanics in the open world ones are pretty fun. I wish more games had as good a system of getting from point a to point b.
a267f2 No.14097668
>>14097653
I feel like Skyward Sword had a good world design. If they didn't make the nitty gritry dungeoning and adventuring bits so fucking easy and tedious it would have been a pretty cool game. Not to mention the MMO collecting garbage. As it stood though, I couldn't even stomach finishing the game.
b884f3 No.14097671
>>14097668
I haven't played Squidward Sword in years, but I recall it being actually like, not open world at all, as in, the open world didn't exist. It was about as open world as Mario 64, Skyloft was just a glorified hub level. It didn't even have proper shit like real day-night cycles
e05fd1 No.14097677
>>14097653
No, TES is the right way of doing open world, it's just dragged down by Bethesda being shit at pretty much everything else. Still, no open world game has yet to surpass pic related.
1ce7f8 No.14097683
>>14097653
This post is utter garbage, kys.
b884f3 No.14097692
>>14097683
Nice try Tod, we know its you, we know you can't really climb the mountain, Tod
d7d84b No.14097717
>>14097586
>Why do casuals love big empty maps so much?
It's more like they love the idea of big open worlds with tons of shit to do. Problem is that usually the actual things to do is very finite. Let's take Skyrim for example. What is there to do in the game? Boring combat, linear dungeons and fetch quests. For an open world game to really be good the devs would have to be super fucking autistic about it and put in metric-fuck-tons of varied things to do.
92891b No.14097733
>>14097653
Except BOTW is literally Skyrim.
a267f2 No.14097756
>>14097671
Yeah, it was pretty light on the open world aspect. Maybe that's just what I wanted out of a Zelda game. Unless a game like Zelda 1 came out again.
8114e9 No.14097763
>>14097586
MGS was a killed by Konami and supposedly rushed.
>>14097611
Terrible comparison as the MM map is designed around a 3 day system where it knows it will take you some time to get to places. The map is designed around having many shortcuts once you get access to more equipment and owl statues. There were also many interesting locations. BotW meanwhile is big just so you can have a journey getting from point A to B. The shrines were supposed to be the content but 40 shrines couldn't even compare to one dungeons and are nearly all forgettable. Even the 4 actual dungeons in the game, while creative in design, were too short.
>>14097677
Seen gameplay and it looked interesting. What makes it so great to you though?
92891b No.14097769
6b8652 No.14097771
>>14097611
He's obviously talking about the arkham games you autist.
b884f3 No.14097778
>>14097733
The only reason I want to say its not is because when you play Skyrim you really just want to fast-travel the second you get between 2 or more towns. In BotW the horse feels pretty much useless because you generally want to actually climb mountains and shit to find shrines or ores
If I could fix BotW, I'd trash the same shitty cookie-cutter shrines, and give you a lot more shit to buy. After getting the house with furniture and all the armor there's really no fucking point to farming rupees anymore. it would be nice if there was at least a way to customize or repair weapons.
1a13de No.14097788
e5dae4 No.14097791
e5dae4 No.14097795
>>14097733
Uh no, Zelda is 3rd person
a78721 No.14097798
>>14097733
It's actually much worse.
1ce7f8 No.14097799
>>14097692
I was triggered by the wind waker part, fam, though i agree with you.
>>14097717
>tons of shit to do
I think people misunderstand the concept of open world and think more of Tes games in that regard. They just want a game with plenty of content or simply a longer game, something that doesn't end so fast.
That would explain why people linger so long in mmorpgs.
>>14097788
2a17d2 No.14098014
>>14097763
>MGS was a killed by Konami and supposedly rushed.
<Believing the Game Journalist narrative to defend the talentless hack and cuckold faggot Hideo Kojima
cc26b2 No.14098219
>>14098014
>Konami dindu nuffin
Fuck off you pachinko-loving nigger, even if you don't like Kojima they're still a cancerous company.
2a17d2 No.14098272
>>14098219
Konami was totally justified on their actions regarding the bloated, over-budget and sub-par game they got conned into dumping money into, which incurred numerous totally unnecessary expenses because of Kojima's desire to socially network with Hollywood (such as hiring Kiefer Sutherland to read all of ten lines and licensing a shitton of music for literally no reason). There is little to no evidence that this mythical part three existed beyond a vague conceptual outline and it is highly unlikely that Kojima himself really had any idea where he was going with the narrative, hence it ending with a mediocre plot twist.
b96e15 No.14098284
bf705c No.14098305
what exactly is wrong with MGSV? I thought it was okay
c9e7fa No.14098317
>>14098272
>dumping money into a cash-cow is getting conned
5948f8 No.14098349
>>14097586
>Why do casuals love big empty maps so much?
Because RL has gotten too crowded.
f6f055 No.14098412
>>14097586
Arkham Asylum was kinda cool. I don't mind open world games, but it's just that no one has designed a good one yet. BotW is the closest we've gotten to a good open world game and it's a piece of shit.
>>14098305
It cut out a lot of content. It also takes the series in a different direction. Regardless of how the games ended up, each were handled with the utmost scrutiny until TPP. The inherent problem with open world games is that experience is supposed to be dictated by players rather than developers, so developers have to account for more situations. Instead of adding more complexity, however, they just make everything so generic so it can be applied to as many situations as possible. There's no depth to anything like there should be.
5da533 No.14098470
>>14097586
Did you knew that if you play a genre of videogames as if it was something else you will not like it?
Like playing an Hack&Slash game like an RTS and complaining that there aren't enough units or that the economy is too simple or that your faction has no base building?
Or for a better example, like playing an open-world game and expecting it to be a linear corridor adventure instead?
And then complaining that you don't have your ebin cinematic experience with a cutscene or coverbased combat every 10 seconds? Or that you actually have to travel somewhere and you really don't care about the world around you because "exploring" just means humping walls and checking beneath stairs?
Those games weren't killed, they were just made in a different genre that you don't happen to like but some people do.
MGS still has the cutscenes, the scenarios and set pieces for the story missions, the cheesy characters and the TECHNOLOGY from previous games, you just have something else connecting all of that together besides a short corridor, that's all.
Batman isn't actually open world in Asylum since the progression is still very linear, only becomes open world from Arkham City forward.
And even then, story missions happen inside buildings with a linear progression anyway. You're literally complaining that the game features extra content outside of those places, that's all. And revealing how much of a fag you are for not loving to glide around and kick someone's head into the pavement as you dropkick from 500 km.
The Witcher was also "pseudo" open world in the first one too, what the fuck is wrong with you? Sure, the areas you can access expand as the game goes on, but everyone you could visit was already pretty big on it's on with tons of shit to do.
I'd even argue they did nothing special for W3, just stiching all those areas together with a few roads and cliffs connecting them so there's no loading between them, otherwise it's the same.
Zelda was also mostly open world for several games too, of all the things you're gonna bitch, this has to be the dumbest one.
Majora's Mask could even be completed in whatever order too and Twilight Princess had a ring of roads surrounding Hyrule that you could ride Epona through without a single transiction.
Your only argument is "muh big empty maps", which is a really weak one as anyone can just tell you to shut up with your ADD. Things can be barren which is bad, but they can also be too busy which is also bad. A game that gives you areas full of content but also areas that are long and sparse can be pretty good.
Besides, if you're the kind of fag that sees a big cliff in the distance with something shining on top and doesn't immidiatly start looking for a route he can take there, you have no place to even be talking about open world games.
f8ee5b No.14098483
>>14097791
I'd assume he meant The Witcher, not the puzzle game.
9b7805 No.14098541
>>14098470
Maybe devs shouldn't change the genres of long loved series
9b7805 No.14098552
>>14098470
Also
> all of that together besides a short corridor, that's all.
The level design is trash. The other MG's games had hand crafted levels and bossrs . in open world games you can't have that because you don't know where a player will come from or what level they will be. Nothing in mgs 5 compares to the other games.
a2ddfe No.14098557
>>14098470
The inverse is also true; i’d say there’s no excuse for a game to get a free pass just because it’s different. BOTW is no masterpiece and definitely not the pinnacle of design
7ca6e7 No.14098731
>>14098317
Don't be obtuse about this, he meant komija pissed away time and money because he wanted hollywood contections. Ask yourself this did kiefer sutherland being snake add anything to story or gameplay of MGS5?
b6b7ee No.14098837
>>14097653
10/10, best bait in days, I almost thought you were legitimately retarded for a second.
b6b7ee No.14098847
>>14097733
BOTW is actually a lot worse than Skyrim. Most of the people who defend it are still die-hard Nintendo fans or are children with their first open-world.
b6b7ee No.14098853
>>14098305
It's a bad MGS game in the same way that RE4 is a bad RE game. The only difference is that RE4 was actually finished, so it was still decent in it's own right.
If Konami had let Kojimo finish V, it would still have been a shit MGS game but at least it could have been a great open-world game.
7476af No.14098917
>>14098731
If Konami wasn't a mis-managed pachinko joke they would have kept their monkeys in line.
34a1c3 No.14098947
>>14097586
>why don't these developers only make maps small for children with ADHD like me?
>don't they know that the countryside is a tiny area with lots to do in it and not a large expanse of nothing?
>I don't like exploring or people building realistic open worlds therefore it's a meme and only casuals like it and it's killing everything and and and
You're an actual retard OP, throwing a tantrum over people not tailor-making games for your preferences and mental disorder. And no one cares about what you want.
d137c8 No.14098958
>>14098837
This whole thread is bait.
>>14097653
Here's not bait opinion:
Wind Waker > Breath of the Wild > Shit > Piss > Skyrim
23d8e3 No.14099154
>>14097639
Not really. Each of them had a shit entry that actually killed the series before it went open world.
>MGS4
>Origins
>TW2
>Skyward Sword
Stop playing zombie franchises. No series is meant to be strung along forever and the longer people keep enabling this kind of creative bankrupcy the longer they'll keep doing it.
c2b41f No.14099174
>>14097586
>Open World Meme.
This "Open world meme" meme. Yeah lets all just play shitty corridor shooters.
b6b7ee No.14099188
>>14099174
Healthy middle grounds exist. You can have a large and varied world without it being 'open world'. I'd prefer to explore a carefully crafted area in Dark Souls or Dragon's Dogma than a copy-pasta hill in BOTW.
9b7805 No.14099204
>>14099174
Holy shit you ate retarded if you think non open world means corridor
a45566 No.14099207
>>14097586
Open world doesn't ruin the game if there's thought put into it, and the map isn't so fuckign massive it takes an army of autists 3 years to document the whole thing.
Stalker is open world, and CoP was probably the best implementation of the "What happened here" narrative building through atmosphere. Though I think more discoverable lore documents a la Fallout would help.
07fb84 No.14099208
>>14099204
this is /v/, only one dichotomy may exist about anything.
9b7805 No.14099211
>>14098947
Only ADD children like you like copy pasted shit over actual good game design
c2b41f No.14099218
>>14099188
Dragon's Dogma is open world you idiot.
>>14099204
>Holy shit you ate retarded…
Nah mate I ain't a cannibal.
2c5849 No.14099279
b6b7ee No.14099380
>>14099218
>Dragon's Dogma is open world
It barely qualifies as open world. The environment is tiny and every part it is intentionally modeled, unlike the majority of open world games with a huge but empty world of repetitive terrain.
ac826c No.14099542
>>14097769
And my dad works in Nintendo.
f601d2 No.14099549
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>14099380
>Dragon's Dogma tiny.
Have you even fucking played the game?
f6268a No.14099597
>>14099188
>Carefully crafted
>Dragon's Dogma
I know it's in vogue to not say anything about bad about "Wasted Potential the game" but Gransys is one of the most boring, uninteresting worlds I've experienced in a video game. It's basically tiny empty with nothing interesting to explore aside from the same combat encounters respawning forever. It's interesting the first time especially at night then devolves into just getting into the exact same enemy encounters over and over and over again.
2c8729 No.14099608
>>14097611
>Take the map of Majora's mask and compare it to breath of the wild on equal scale.
The scale is arguably the problem. I'll use that frozen lake up in the mountains where you can access the racetrack after thawing everything as an example, but feel free to substitute literally any other location in Termina if you want. It's basically a path from point A to point B. There are only two NPCs present, one of which is Tingle whose only there to sell you maps and has nothing interesting to say. There are some enemies you can fight - they can be avoided, but you have to run past them and IIRC (it's been a while), there's one grotto containing nothing of particular interest. You have to cross this part of the map a couple of times on the main quest, most notably to learn the first half of the Goron Lullaby and access Snowhead Temple. Passing through it takes about a minute.
Now compare this to some random-ass location in BotW. Any location that isn't a settlement. It's not really a point A to point B since even if there is a path, you can probably climb a mountain or some shit and go off the path entirely. Maybe there's an NPC or two present, if so, at most they'll have some clue to open up a shrine which will be rather forgettable. There's probably some enemies around, but depending on where you are, it's perfectly possible there are none nearby at all or the ones that are there are easily avoided. It most likely contains nothing related to the whatever qualifies as a main quest (we'll say anything involving the Divine Beasts or beating Ganon), and for that reason you probably don't even have to go there anyways, but you are either because it's on your way to somewhere you do have to go or for some sidequest. Crossing the area will take several minutes.
So while in Majora's Mask, you have areas that are relatively empty, they're small enough that you pass through them and move onto the next area rather quickly while BotW drags on. This isn't even getting into how the MM sidequests tend to feel a lot more meaningful than the BotW ones since most of them focus on helping people dealing with the end of the world. And also, there really isn't anything in BotW that compared to Clock Town. Even Twilight Princess's Castle Town, which had a lot more people running around didn't feel alive in the same way Clock Town did.
5db02b No.14099609
>>14098731
>he pissed away time and money
>konami kept on shuffling his staff and forced in a currency in game which can only be brought with real money which can be sold on p2w shit for online.
maybe if they didn't want to piss away money they should have gotten back the writer which did snake eater and mgs/2 then as well as ya'know stop being jews
5db02b No.14099613
>>14099597
think the only real reason for that is due to the fact that it's a console game tbh
7ea21a No.14099628
>>14097586
BOTW is tedious janky shit but I might buy again if Nintendo decides to catch up to 2008 and they make a hd 1080p 60fps remaster on the system after the switch.
4afdd2 No.14099782
>>14097653
>Elder Scrolls is the wrong way of doing open worlds, because you end up railroaded to the same linear paths anyways because of poor level design and quest scaling.
Wut?
Any place in Skyrim is pretty much accessible from the start, because there is scaling (and thus you can usually survive any encounter). Your argument makes no sense.
Either the game world has area without scaling, where there are enemies why above your level and you'll die - in which case you have a liner progression of easy areas -> medium areas -> hard areas OR you have scaling where you can go everywhere, but it feels less rewarding.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
29a1ad No.14099855
I love hyping about games and then shitposting about the inevitable letdown on imageboards, because I don't actually play games
29a1ad No.14099873
>>14099608
>every square mile must contain N enemies and activities else it's empty
False.
Navigation is not emptiness and brought to its logical conclusion, your kind of shitty opinion is the same as whining about games not having enough fast travel.
538caf No.14099878
>>14098305
>Several lines of dialogue from Snake were cut, seemingly for no reason
>There's an entire chapter missing
>Chico was supposed to be in the game
>We would've gotten to use Battle Gear but it was 'too overpowered'
>There are key plot scenes completely missing
>The open world is almost completely empty, probably because of hardware limitations of old gen
>Some cut dialogue appear to be lines for co-op
>You were supposed to be able to play with D-Dog
>Episode 51
>Mother Base being almost completely barren and empty if you don't mod it
>The story in general
>Not getting to go back to Camp Omega
>Quiet's role to the plot was completely wasted
>You don't get to see Outer Heaven be made
>The poorly-handled twist
etc.
2efa42 No.14099891
>>14097586
The problem with TW3 wasn't the Open World, it was the shit quest direction because side quests were all over the place which lead to insane amounts of backtracking.
538caf No.14099896
>>14099878
I should add I believe the world is empty because of old gen because the game suffers no issues if you run mods that actually populate it, I doubt it was a design decision that wasn't based on the limitations of older consoles
3e90ed No.14099974
>open world are by default bad
Stop this. This is another one of those cases where something's reputation gets dragged down because incompetent people using it. Probably the biggest weakness of OW games is their scaling and lack of worthwhile rewards from areas. It doesn't feel like you just stumbled onto something important.
828d2d No.14100010
>>14097733
Nintendo actually managed to make an open world game worse than skyrim
f99a07 No.14100049
What are some examples of a well done and fun open world games? I'm not memeing I would really want to know, because I feel like playing something like that. I would really like a game with a world that I can freely explore but that also has a lot of shit to do.
f99a07 No.14100070
>>14100049
Shit forgot to change the flag.
5db02b No.14100077
>>14099896
konami used it to run on ps3/ps4/xbox 360/xboxone
that's why it was limited in that regards
f47f42 No.14100160
>>14100049
I really like
>Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
>Just Cause 2
>Gravity Rush 1 & 2, especially the latter
>Saints Row 2
They're all either packed with stuff to do, have lots of interactivity with the environment or both. GR1&2 in particular have worlds that feel more like giant handcrafted levels than open worlds, if that makes sense, which I like.
I don't know if Yakuza counts because of how small the worlds in that series tend to be, but I like its philosophy of having a very small explorable area but making pretty much every other building interactive in some way.
b01c25 No.14100229
Did any game ever do GOOD open world?
There's Dragon's Dogma.
Stalker also comes to mind, but I'm not sure if it qualifies because you have levels that are connected to each other.
>>14099549
It is, compared to a lot of other open world games, like Oblivion.
But just because it is small does not mean it is bad.
>>14099974
The idea is decent, but the execution is almost always terrible.
168101 No.14100322
>>14097586
>MGS
It was never really valued for its gameplay anyway.
>Batman
The Arkham series was killed more by general bloat (mostly poorly-thought-out gimmicks) and a lack of compelling villains to replace the Joker than anything else.
>The Switcher
2 was already a downgrade from 1.
>Zelda
3D killed it.
>Why do casuals love big empty maps so much?
They love what they're told to love, it's AAA developers who love open worlds because of two reasons:
1. They have large teams rather than talented individuals. Large teams are good at making a fuckton of repetitive shallow content, talented individuals are good at making a focussed bit of well-designed content.
2. The failure rate is low. The only real way to fuck up a bland open world game is to introduce gamebreaking bugs or fuck up your advertising. Failure when trying something new is much more likely.
3. The current philosophy is that there's no point spending development time on content some players might not see. When you make it open world but signpost everything with map markers they'll get there eventually and one poorly designed difficulty spike won't prevent progress.
168101 No.14100330
>>14097653
>"Open World" is a genre, like any genre, there are right ways and wrong ways to do it.
Open world is not a genre, it is a design choice (or if you prefer gameplay element). You can have games of almost any genre be open world.
3e90ed No.14100334
>>14100330
Open world porn games?
168101 No.14100339
>>14100334
Porn games are not a genre either.
6fd054 No.14100344
>>14099782
Only sensible post in this thread.
It has become so popular to hate Skyrim (and to a lesser extent Oblivion) that you can't really have serious discussions about them, and as you just illustrated, people will often contradict themselves in their criticisms of the game.
That said Skyrim's level scaling is not as egregiously shitty as Oblivion's.
>>14097653
>Breath of the Wild is a better way of doing open world, because the games mechanics and world design encourage the player to explore from the path and it feels less like a bunch of empty wasted space.
I kind of agree in part, verticality and the effects dynamic weather has on the landscape for example. But BotW's world is just plain uninteresting because it's a) devoid of anything other than empty wilderness and b) it has no reason for being. Towns and locations do not feel like they have a purpose or history behind them in any meaningful sense.
That's more a problem with Zelda having shit-tier lore, but when creating an open world fantasy game, I feel it's important to have these things. They help immerse you in the world more.
6fd054 No.14100347
>>14100322
>2. The failure rate is low.
The failure rate for any game is high. Only about 20% pull in a profit, if that.
>3. The current philosophy is that there's no point spending development time on content some players might not see.
I disagree. Look at Dishonored 2.
ad05ad No.14100360
>>14100229
There's something that feels very off about that butt.
168101 No.14100413
>>14100347
>The failure rate for any game is high. Only about 20% pull in a profit, if that.
Yes but that's normally a failure to market correctly or judge release date. I'm talking about failure caused by the developer.
>I disagree. Look at Dishonored 2.
The ability to play as two characters was included to try and pander to SJWs with a female character while simultaneously keeping a male character because that's what the actual players wanted to play, that's all.
6fd054 No.14100443
>>14100413
>The ability to play as two characters was included to try and pander to SJWs with a female character while simultaneously keeping a male character because that's what the actual players wanted to play, that's all.
Come on, I hate leftists as much as anyone, but this is reaching. There's nothing in Emily's campaign that smacks of the whole "girl power" trope at all. Plus, it's the canonical choice.
And it's not just the choice to play as male or female, there's a ton of content there regardless of character choice that most people will never see.
168101 No.14100544
>>14100443
>Come on, I hate leftists as much as anyone, but this is reaching. There's nothing in Emily's campaign that smacks of the whole "girl power" trope at all. Plus, it's the canonical choice.
That's because she was added just as lazy 'female representation'. They've finally worked out SJWs don't actually play the game so all they've got to do to please both camps is include a female option and let the actual players play as a man.
>And it's not just the choice to play as male or female, there's a ton of content there regardless of character choice that most people will never see.
If it's anything like the first one I find that somewhat unlikely. Regardless of that the 'don't waste time on things people won't see' meme is pushed everywhere from publisher to game dev courses at university.
168101 No.14100559
>>14100544
>>14100443
I should mention: the real push for this came when achievements, particularly Steam achievements, let devs and publishers see just how few people even complete the main storyline of a game never mind side content. Generally speaking they only include missable content if it's a heavy feature of their marketing (e.g. E3 demos) and even then it's normally pretty minor stuff.
cae4bf No.14100616
TES is literally the best open world game series and you contrarian hipsters know it.
34a1c3 No.14100623
>>14099211
>open world is copy and pasted shit
>corridor shooters and small maps never reuse assets
King retard over here.
ece1af No.14100660
>mgs v
Not even a traditional open world, it's basically an open ended Peace Walker. Only bad part was shit story because of. Konami being cunts.
>batman
The only semi decent Batman game prior to Arkham was Batman Begins, and that was just barely decent.
>zelda
Literally nothing wrong with botw, you're just being a contarian
>Witcher 3
I'll give you this one, I loved it but got burned out halfway through
6fd054 No.14100711
>>14100544
>If it's anything like the first one I find that somewhat unlikely. Regardless of that the 'don't waste time on things people won't see' meme is pushed everywhere from publisher to game dev courses at university.
Even in the first Dishonored there is tons of this type of content. E.g. Leaving Granny Rags home for the first time and bothering to look through the keyhole as one small example. I didn't even realize just how much of this stuff there was until I bothered to look up YouTube videos about it, and that was after 3 playthroughs.
I get it if you don't like modern games or don't think they compare to the games of yesteryear, I'd agree in some respects. But you're being a bit dishonest here. It's not true that there isn't a ton of optional content in a lot of games made today. And it makes your own case weaker if you just stubbornly refuse to acknowledge this.
6fd054 No.14100718
>>14100229
>There's Dragon's Dogma.
Dragon's Dogma did not do open world well, it's even more empty than BotW was. DD is a giant meme-game that became popular on halfchan purely as a way to spite Skyrim, that's it.
504c2c No.14100756
>>14097586
Would argue that zelda benefits from the open world genre, albeit only for the variety.
Try harder
d7cb0f No.14100773
>>14097586
>MGS
>killed
it was gonna be the last game of the series because kojiman decided to do something else / got fired or something like that. nothing to do with it being open world
89e850 No.14100804
>>14097798
>>14097733
>>14098847
>>14100010
>Spouting the "Zelda is worse than Skyrim" meme
85529a No.14100821
>>14100804
It is, because Skyrim is a perfect game.
f90ab2 No.14100837
>>14097733
Double dubs confirm. >>14097653 is a faggot.
98991f No.14100856
>>14100616
with the right mods i could actually jack off to skyrim, cant say the same for near a tomato
3133f1 No.14100860
I like to think of open world games like a sandbox. There are two approaches devs tend to take with open world.
>The wrong approach: fill the box with more sand.
>The right approach: fill the box with more toys.
MGS5 is one of the worst games I've ever played, despite having fucking amazing gameplay mechanics, because the amount of "sand" they make you trudge through just to get to the next "toy" is so huge. That's why when devs say shit like "Over 6-gorillion virtual square miles!" I cringe, because they're just saying "We added more sand to our sandbox, now you have to dig even harder to find the toys!" The open world trend is worse than the brown-'n-bloom trend last decade and infinitely worse than the animal mascot platformers of the 90s. I hate to see what trend the 2020s will bring.
533ef2 No.14100962
>>14100856
>being a nigger
4f02f9 No.14101112
>>14097586
name one decent batman game
4f02f9 No.14101125
you guys hate open world for being empty but still love the boring empty shit of SoTC.
e184a9 No.14101127
>>14100856
Near a Tomato only runs for 15 minutes at a time before crashing, so I wouldn’t expect otherwise.
e184a9 No.14101131
>>14100860
Blame the 360 and PS3 for that.
e184a9 No.14101137
>>14099896
>game suffers no issues if you run mods that actually populate it
25+ NPCs equals instant crash because the engine can’t handle it. Animals equal NPCs, by the way.
4f02f9 No.14101157
>>14098412
is it still worth getting if i havent played any of the other mgs games, amd im just looking for a good stealth game? i already have hitman and thief btw.
533ef2 No.14101159
>>14101157
Just play MGS3 instead. It doesn't even require previous knowledge of the series.
4f02f9 No.14101161
>>14100360
its too poofy, most butts wouldnt pop iut like that. it looks like silicon tbh.
4f02f9 No.14101163
>>14100718
an anon that isnt retarded, finally. dd wasnt good open world, it was good because of everything else.
738954 No.14101169
>>14101125
SOTC is designed around minimalism though, and isn't built around shitty fetch quests and rehashing the same content for 60% of the game
b219c4 No.14101171
I liked Zelda and the Witcher.
Batman's problems are completely unrelated to the open world and already existed in Asylum, which was very linear.
4f02f9 No.14101186
>>14101159
im on pc and im not going to use emulators
4f02f9 No.14101196
>>14101169
youre right, its designed on having literally nothing. you paid for a full game and got what basically amounts to a tech demo for anyone with standards.
b219c4 No.14101219
>>14101186
MGS3 is one of the worst emulating games on PCSX2 right now anyways
Just buy a PS3 and play the HD ports
41c955 No.14101336
>>14097586
>the witcher
>ruined
How? 1 was a heavily flawed gem that you really have to make an effort to power on through the bad parts. 2 was shit. 3 was great about a year after release.
96e3a0 No.14101426
>>14100804
BOTW is worse than Skyrim but is still very good since Skyrim was the zenith of quality open world experiences
602cba No.14101449
>>14100804
Now you know Toddposting stopped being ironic
6fd054 No.14101482
>>14101336
All three games are good for different reasons. Flotsam in 2 is one of the best towns in any RPG.
e1f761 No.14101525
>the next zelda goes in the opposite direction of breath of the wild and takes place entirely inside one massive dungeon
Is it better?
e1f761 No.14101528
>>14101525
>just realized this is literally just a metroidvania
So yeah, it would be better
6fd054 No.14101569
>>14101525
Sounds like Arx Fatalis.
533ef2 No.14101582
>>14101569
That's insulting to Arx
6fd054 No.14101585
>>14101582
Arx was a flawed gem.
1d966c No.14101590
>>14101525
thats actually a pretty cool idea.
7a9f05 No.14101631
>>14100339
>porn games are not a genre
You wut fagit?
dd9792 No.14101674
>>14098305
It's another shitty cinemaplay game from the hack Hideo Kojima. Of course if you eat shit like every other Metal Gear Solid game, you might think nothing is wrong with it.
74ce01 No.14101730
>>14101590
what was this called again?
61e817 No.14101739
>>14099974
I wonder why open world games never seem to increase resource expenditure instead of decreasing reward.
I'd prefer to have my treasure trove from a cleared dungeon dwindle over time as I spend it keeping myself afloat and preparing for the next delve into the depths. There's no reality in which three coins and an apple is a satisfying reward for anything.
61531c No.14101753
>>14099878
>>We would've gotten to use Battle Gear but it was 'too overpowered'
this is the excuse that makes me go "mmm, Kojima is definitely who is in the wrong here" and not Konami. MGS V is full of overpowered shit from the very beginning (Quiet being the most flagrant one). Another Overpowered mecha-tank wouldn't have made too much of a different, plus they could have just restricted ranking for using it. Just a lazy excuse.
828d2d No.14101767
>>14100804
>if I call it a meme it invalidates the truth
cuckchan tier thinking
1d966c No.14101792
File: b4ab057c5737eda⋯.gif (Spoiler Image, 891.71 KB, 1000x381, 1000:381, healthy mother daughter ac….gif)
>>14101730
haha musume donburi
e1f761 No.14101815
>>14099878
>Several lines of dialogue from Snake were cut, seemingly for no reason
Kojima saw Mad Max a few months before the game came out and autistically had most of Venom's lines cut at the last minute so Venom would feel more like Max.
533ef2 No.14101818
>>14101792
That's not how you read 母娘丼
5da533 No.14101820
>>14101739
Because a ton of fags that don't even like open world games to begin with will start complaining about "busy work" and "shitty resource bars" instead.
It would make perfect sense to require your character to actually eat and sleep, these things costing you money to do.
Even having higher need requirements for high level characters so maintenance costs increase as you level up.
A long trip would actually require planning, the further you went the more costly it would be in resources but the bigger the challenge and rewards you'd get too.
And then there's all the extra services and utilities a game could give you to spend cash on instead of simply buying gear you don't even need or spending it on trainers to play even less of the game.
Can't find an NPC? Talk with a beggar or an urchin and for a few coins he'll take you to your target if he is well known around, just gotta follow the guy.
Is it a rare or hidden NPC? Go to a tavern and pay a shady figure to track him down for you.
Go to any guild and make a request. Offer a reward for it (bigger values get people handling them sooner). Perfect way to hire temporary henchmen or collect rare ingredients.
Hire thieves and assassins to commit the crimes you don't want to be seen doing.
Pay a craftsman to use the skills you never bothered to develop.
Got a disease? Healers will handle it for the right price!
Pay a round at the tavern, contribute to the church or hire a bard. Congratulations! Extra reputation for you!
At the very fucking least, have fast traveling tie in with transports like carriages, boats and the like, then pay someone to actually travel around.
Have parties in all those mansions you bought to boost relationship with local NPCs! Just pay for the food and a bard before hand.
You can even tie this shit into the Difficulty Slider with harder settings having a multiplier applied to every cost, or increasing the chances that negative stuff happens to you, etc.
Ideally Open World games should be about managing logistics while exploring, not just be an over glorified hack&slash game with none of the depth those have.
3e90ed No.14101841
>>14101820
How about resources be used on actual activity and not some faggy timed shit survival garbage.
e1f761 No.14101844
I find that Metroidvanias distill everything the open world games do into just the good bits and leave out all the trash.
fe2c1a No.14101873
I prefer small detailed and interconnected areas, like Majora's Mask.
Not really open world, but it gives you the feeling of one.
4f02f9 No.14102064
>>14101219
no thanks, i dont have space for another console in my house
4f02f9 No.14102068
>>14102064
i also cant stand to play consoles rither so
5da533 No.14102547
>>14101841
The only activity you use in most open world games is "exploring", which entails a lot of different actions but usually boils down to "go to place, kill anything that moves and loot anything not bolted to the ground".
there's no "actual activity" done besides looting and fighting, unless you want to suggest some besides the standard crafting.
And I think you don't even understand the point of "shit survival garbage". Nethack is perhaps the first game to come up with the idea for a very specific and good reason. In that game, you have hunger to manage, which prevents you from grinding away on the same floor and forces you to march on. It puts weight into every action you make since you have a timer on how long you can linger in each floor, a timer you can expand depending on how you manage your hunger.
The idea isn't to give you stuff you can use to do more things, the idea is to put up some form of maintenance\upkeep that the player must pay overtime be it hunger\thirst\sleep or taxes or waves of enemies attacking at regular intervals, etc. A cost that rises as you get stronger too.
This way, instead of simply hoarding gold for the sake of it, you have sinks for it that you have to manage as being powerful comes with a cost.
Sure, you can also have newer gameplay options unlocked as you progress, options that also incur more maintenance duty to keep working.
The usual business is indeed just hunger\thirst\sleep, but there's actually a lot that can be done with this idea.
For instance, here's how to make Skyrim's Civil War less shit:
Each Fort has values for food, building and weapon supplies. These change overtime as they fight or are raided by the wildlife.
They don't usually change much on their own unless you're also doing something in the civil war, but once you pick a side, you are able to secure connections with farms, logging camps and mines to gain supplies for a camp and establishing caravans to spread them too.
You want to attack a fort, you take a group whose size and equipment depend entirely on their fort's supply levels, giving you better or worse odds of beating the rival faction.
There you go, an incentive to explore the world, talk with NPCs and do something more than "go here and loot all the things".
Just have the other faction doing the same, rumors at inns talking about actions in the area and there's a lot more than can be done here as well.
e4fdb4 No.14103086
>>14101820
I actually would like something like that. Throw a good combat system, good enemy design, good world building and/or lore, strong art direction and it could a pretty good game.
0da30a No.14103160
>>14100623
…. It's not the reuse of assets, it's that you get new scenarios due to different level geometry.
There's a reason, anon, that before maps are detailed they're just flat low detail orange maps.
It's so they can balance the gameplay.
Putting 8 different missions in one pre-made area in a sandbox game is absolutely laughable, yet it happens pretty often because sandboxes attract laziness in level design and vast empty swathes of nothing that contribute very little to the actual game.
Sandbox is objectively the single least efficient means of designing a game, even compared to procedurally generated garbage.
5da533 No.14103692
>>14103160
You're mixing sandbox with open world, don't do that.
Most open world games actually feature linear corridors and handcrafted areas for important missions. MGSV for instance has several missions that happen in a specific area from which you can only aproach in one way and then you have cliffs surrounding you acting as walls.
This whole argument that "open world can't have good level design" just shows how little they played of the game when the very first mission has you ALWAYS finding the Skulls when you're aproaching a bridge, the only way out of there, so you can hide underneath it and let them pass. Several other missions are like that as well, like the one with the kids in africa, or the boat with the brat or even the mansion.
Your idea about "geometry comes first for gameplay and then they put the details" is also pretty damming.
What usually ends up happening is that levels with entirely different aspects end up feeling exactly the same because, even though the mesh is different, the shape is the same. You end up recognizing every obstacle, every slope, every debris that acts as invisible walls and it severely detracts from the game at that point.
0da30a No.14104054
So you'd describe PP as a good sandbox or a bad one?
Apologies for reading comprehension fail, I'm tired as balls.
Either way I think the only good sandbox has been VC just for the sheer density and usage of all it's mass.
be32f2 No.14104563
>>14097586
BOTW is unironically good
fd3b01 No.14104634
Open world i didn't necessarily kill those games, the push to make the "BIGGEST WORLD FUCKING EVER, BIGGER THAN A HUNDRED SKYRIMS" is what fucking did the most damage. Any time a dev brags about how big they made their open world you know right out the gate you're going to be spending most of your gameplay hours traveling, or in the loading screen for fast travel because you got sick of trying to travel traditionally because the worlds are filled with fucking nothing. MGSTPP was particularly frustrating because despite the whole "100 ways to do anything" idea of sneaking into places, most places you sneak into are shitty camps. Ground Zeroes ended up being more fun because of its restrictions and actually having some concept of level design instead of "throw some guys in the middle of buttfuck nowhere". Most players will just start ignoring them or sniping them because its the more efficient than spending 5 minutes crawling to the camp to actually sneak around. To top it all off there's no real reason to explore the open world so does it even really need to exist? I think i would have just preferred a lot more compounds or semi-open areas where you can select your entry point than all the empty space with nothing to do in it.
BOTW has an oversized world but they did put stuff in it, the issue is the stuff fucking sucks dick. You ask yourself "why bother exploring" really quick because it wastes your resources and there's very few unique items or collectables. most of time you'll just get another sword you're just going to break, and why break your weapons on more moblins by midgame, since the enemy variety is pitiful I'd bank most players just start avoiding combat partway through because there's nothing to gain and you've probably already had a laugh at trying to physics-kill enemies by then. This is the fucked up thing that shit like skyrim and 3d fallouts get right with their worlds is you bank to gain something from exploring. You can get unique items or currency to get more stuff, and even if you don't find an item you want, you do gain experience points so you don't feel like you're wasting time. Of course those games suck in other regards but at least the first 2-3 hours of exploring around can be kind of fun
0aada7 No.14110439
>>14102068
guess ill just get 5. i can usually enjoy games even if i know theyre bad/not the best.
896001 No.14112373
>>14104634
>This is the fucked up thing that shit like skyrim and 3d fallouts get right with their worlds is you bank to gain something from exploring. You can get unique items or currency to get more stuff, and even if you don't find an item you want, you do gain experience points so you don't feel like you're wasting time.
Open world sandbox exploration is pretty much the only thing Bethesda has always done better than other games. Oblivion gates and the T51 quest in Fallout 3 are great, they have a lot of open choices and really gave you the incentive to explore the world for the prize of permanent upgrades.
e88510 No.14112561
>>14097586
How does it make you feel that GTA of all games has maintained depth, length, and story telling that rivals most rpgs?
238a8a No.14112584
>>14112561
Do you expect anyone to actually believe that?
8292dd No.14113409
>>14097586
Open world isn't a problem, the lazy way developers use it is. They just generate terrain and flop bunch of foliage over it. If they would concentrate on actual level design like on smaller levels, they could come up with really good open world maps, but this would take 100 times longer which is why they won't do it. Why sell something good when you can sale shit to normies and they'll eat it anyways?
28c89d No.14113607
>Make huge open world
>100 hours of content
>literally 10% of gamers doesn't even finish the tutorial
285fd8 No.14113615
>>14097639
>Batman
>Zelda
>MGS
>good
285fd8 No.14113630
>>14100856
that looks like shit
9b7805 No.14113745
Semi open maps are objectively the best. System Shock, Dues ex, Mario sunshine ect prove this and the best thing is that it is cheaper to design. I hope devs look at Mario odessey or Dude sex man divided but I doubt it.
3dd5b2 No.14114138
>>14097586
It makes games feel less gamey and be more about grand adventure.
d755c1 No.14114631
>>14113745
I agree with this.
Theoretically the devs if given enough resources to work with could scale the project up to handcraft a large and fully fleshed out world, but I've never seen such a project attempted. They all just go for the method of reducing every possible action to a generalized spreadsheet format so any situation could be swapped out for any other; destroying the meaning and magic of a big open world in the process.
Until a studio gets infinite money and talent to work with the idea of big open-world games needs to be dropped.
ec71f8 No.14114640
>>14097586
>MGSV
Wasn't killed by open world. The open world and the gameplay was the most entertaining part of it. What killed the game was corporate assfucking of the Kojima Productions team and a shit story that has a lot of setup, no pay off and answers a question no one gave a shit about except Kojima himself.
>Batman
Open world didn't kill Batman. Asylum and City were fun. The reason it died was because of creative exhaustion. Everything past City didn't need to exist and so Warner Bros forcing the games to be created made them absolute shit.
>Zelda
Breath of The Wild was Fun but flawed and the areas in which it suffered were not because of the open world. It suffered because it lacked enemy variety, dungeons, good bosses(Gold Lynels are more challenging and fulfilling to defeat than Calamity Ganon), side quests that give you more than just rupees or a shrine, etc
41c955 No.14114757
>>14114138
>less gamey
kill yourself
54837f No.14114775
>>14114138
Shut your cancerous ass up.
64bf56 No.14114785
Open worlds are for queers. Gimme small seamless worlds. No load times or map transitions after you start the game.
37d908 No.14114936
>>14097733
>BotW is Skyrim meme
a1515d No.14114953
>>14097586
why is CP allowed on /v/ again? mark? mark did the fucking ancient jews get you?
94dd10 No.14115743
>>14100856
>jacking off to videogames