/v/ - Video Games

>Has no point/click

>Adventure game

Sure thing, next you'll say it's a walking simulator

For further elaboration; /v/ says morrowind not having fast-travel is a point for it but I can't recall how many quests it un-naturally stretched out lacking a fast travel system going through a world mostly of ruins and ash with little to do other then fight cliff-racers inbetween points of destination even using stilt walkers. Outside of maybe or 1 or 2 given main-quest characters how many Morrowind NPCs to you remember being a great example of a well-written character with given depth? The answer is none really.

Bethesda even before Oblivion was never known for their deep writing or roleplaying elements.

>>14091658

Name one Bethesda game, post-Daggerfall, that doesn't require you you walk through a whole lot of nothing before you can fast travel to it. At least Morrowind let you jump to certain waypoints without needing to first discover them.

And, compared with those isometric RPGs you mention, Morrowind winds without contest in terms of world-building and things to do outside the story. At the time, there had not been another RPG since the 90's that gave you close to 100 hours of content without touching the story. Planescape and Fallout are great for roleplaying in terms of choices in a linear main quest. But in terms of being able to roleplay personality and career you want, Morrowind wins for the sheer choice it gives you outside the main quest.

the world is amazing, but I would have liked to see a better game attached to it. I always lose interest about 3-4 hours into a new game because it's just running around, being in-your-face samey

>>14091613

>The roleplaying elements or chance for personality-insertion basically didn't exist.

I see you've never roleplayed as a Pilgrim and did the entire Pilgrimage of the Seven Graces

Anyone who doesn't like Morrowind should be banned from the board. Just sayin'.

>>14091711

>Name one Bethesda game, post-Daggerfall, that doesn't require you you walk through a whole lot of nothing before you can fast travel to it

You can fast travel to every city in Oblivion from the moment you leave the sewers. In Skyrim they delayed this until you get to Whiterun and have enough money to pay for the carriage.

>>14092347

>A huge step down that cut back on replayability.

In what regard? Did you actually enjoy being sent out to do fetch quests even when you were supposedly the equivalent of a senior manager within the guild? Moreover, you talk about RPG aspects, but you're given even less choice with regards to resolving questlines in Morrowind than you are in Skyrim and Oblivion.

>coupled with the speechcraft and lockpicking mini-games

The lockpicking game is fine. It gamifies something that's supposed to be gamified.

>Then there is just the sheer volume of side-quests, skills, spells, and general detail in world design

It was trimmed down because the vast majority of it was junk and Oblivion and Skyrim necessitated things like voiced dialogue and some basic level of QA. People laugh at Skyrim's canned dialogue in response to you being say, a guild leader or something like that, but they also forget that virtually not a single NPC in the entire game, even those within the respective guids, actually reacted to anything you did either in their organizations or in the game world at large.

This is what I mean by saying that people like you, who adopt pen and paper mode of thinking and apply it to games like Morrowind, just end up papering over the cracks: "Heh, nobody actually acknowledges I'm the leader of the fighters guild, but in my head they do." - It's Ullililia tier shit, you may as well call MS Notepad the greatest game ever made by those standards.

Furthermore, do you have _any_ idea just how ridiculously buggy Morrowind was at launch? It made Oblivion at launch look like a polished gem.

Not to mention even the content that wasn't bugged just wasn't very good.

>But you, anon, are a stupid faggot with shit taste.

I'm sorry you were diagnosed with autism and literally have no friends, but that's no reason to get hostile with me. You didn't even address any of my main points. You just saw someone praise Oblivion and Skyrim (even though it was praise with a caveat - the main quests for both are garbage compared to truly stellar RPGs like KOTOR 2) and reflexively whirred up your asperger's syndrome.

Fucking fag.

>>14092409

>You went full retard too quickly.

Even Thief 1 and 2 gamified the process of picking locks (alternate between one and the other and move the lock into position as you do so).

Both of these examples are better than "you attempt to use a lockpick -> you fail" for a first person game.

Morrowind has significant flaws. One day I will get the resident contingent of autists to admit it.

>>14092415

because "le rage man grrr /v/ hate everything xD" meme that people started to internalize and take seriously around 2010 or so.

>>14092415

That's the problem with it, they left everything as that, a basic concept.

>>14092347

>Oblivion's and Skyrims abhorrent combat system

Morrowind's was much worse.

>coupled with the speechcraft and lockpicking

Morrowind's speechcraft is a joke, getting any NPCs disposition to 100 is extremely easy. Lockpicking was just completely random chance based on your skill, too. It wasn't any better.

>Morrowind's guild quests

Completely monotonous and same-y across all the factions.

>sheer volume of side-quests

Morrowind (and all DLC) has 79 sidequests and they're all very similar.

Skyrim (and all DLC) has 111 sidequests NOT including the radiant side quests.

>skills, spells

Due to engine limitations, both skills and spells pale in comparison to what can be achieved on a modded Skyrim. The only big thing that Morrowind had going for it was the stat-reducing magick, mark/recall, and the 5 minutes of fun you would get out of breaking the game with alchemy, jump and levitation.

>general detail in world design

Was lower than Skyrim's. Morrowind had great atmosphere but almost no manually placed props that could hint at any sort of tangential story.

>>14092452

Morrowind is Saints Row "1" in this case while Oblivion is SR2. :^)

>>14092501

>almost no manually placed props that could hint at any sort of tangential story

What the fuck are you talking about? Morrowind wasn't randomly generated, it had thousands of manually placed props that hinted at story. You didn't even play the game did you?

>>14092516

>it had thousands of manually placed props that hinted at story

In what way did Morrowind's placed items add to the story in a way that Oblivion/Skyrim's did not?

If anything Blackreach's environmental storytelling is better than anything in Morrowind.

>>14092516

I played the game at least 4 times and did all the faction quests. I said

>almost

Because it does have some chairs on a table and some sign on the ground made out of coins. The point is that it pales in comparison to the props manually placed in Skyrim.

>>14092544

Compared to Morrowind? Yeah, they did. Again, I played the game right when it came out, most of le redditsirs who claim to have done so never did.

>>14092501

>Morrowind (and all DLC) has 79 sidequests and they're all very similar.

>Skyrim (and all DLC) has 111 sidequests NOT including the radiant side quests.

It also has only 7 daedric quests. Daggerfall has 16, Oblivion has 15, Skyrim has 15 (16 if you count Thieves Guild and Nocturnal).

>>14092516

You mean the completely empty dwemer towers that sometimes have 3 barrels or a stack of upturned chairs in them? The copy-pasted ancestral tombs with the only unique thing being enchanted blings with a special name? Vivec's grand library that has 3 times less unique books in it than the Winterhold college library or the bookstore in Imperial City?

It did fell like an RPG to me, but more of a tabletop pen and paper with limited freedom or autistic GM, going realtime, than more videogamey RPG

>>14092551

>le redditsirs

>using le

>loves skyrim

Anon, we all know you're from reddit, no need to hide it.

>>14092582

>loves skyrim

Where did I say this?

>>14092590

You're defending it aren't you?

>>14092582

shut up fag

>>14092592

Absolutely, it's a better game than Morrowind, though not without its flaws, and that's not to say Morrowind doesn't do certain things better regardless.

>>14092601

Go bad to reddit, shitposter.

>>14092606

So you like it? Then what's the big fucking deal. Nice deflection by the way. Try not to use 'le' in the future, it's a dead give away.

>it's a better game than morrowind

In your opinion, which doesn't really mean much. We've had these threads before. Skyrim never wins and it never wins for a reason.

>>14092624

>So you like it?

Yes.

>Skyrim never wins

You know this imageboard isn't a battle ground right? God damn it how old are you to say something as cringe-inducing as this?

>>14092630

>reddit spacing too

I'm 30. And I'm not stating that this image board is a battle ground, you're the only autist making that cringe-worthy statement. I'm simply stating fact, Morrowind dominates Skyrim every time we have these threads. Sorry that triggers your autism.

>>14092655

>And I'm not stating that this image board is a battle ground

So what exactly does Morrowind "win" in "these threads"?

>>14092655

It's more like these threads are endless circlejerks of Kikebride cultists reinforcing their own hivemind and autistically screeching when someone disagrees, then discarding entire elaborate posts explaining why because "lol he likes skyrim".

>>14092675

I'm sorry, I don't have the time to explain this board's culture to a newfag from reddit. Lurk more, post less, you'll get what I mean in no time. Honestly just stay in this thread and you'll see.

>>14092692

>entire elaborate posts explaining why because "lol he likes skyrim".

To be fair you have to have a very high IQ to like Skyrim.

>>14092693

>board 'culture'

Your mindset is that of an 8 year old, you actually think you're doing battle with people who have marginally different opinions about video game franchises. It's astonishing how reflexively hostile and autistic you are. I mean you actually remind me of IRL autists who have those rages where they need to be calmed down by their mommy.

>>14092692

I really struggle to understand the Morrowind autism. It's an alright game. Just like all the other TES.

>>14092708

>you actually think you're doing battle with people

No, I don't, stop projecting.

> It's astonishing how reflexively hostile and autistic you are.

You're the one screeching last I checked. I'm just informing you of board culture. I'm actually pretty laid back, as you tend to get when you hit 30, maybe you should try taking less offense. It's the internet dude, just like walk away if it's too much for you.

>>14091658

Good roleplaying doesn't actually require good story writing. It requires a fuck load of attention to detail in mechanics design and tons of player agency. In Morrowind you can kill just about anyone and the goals for the game are very lax. It is indeed a very different game from Daggerfall, which is good but almost entirely because of the dungeon generator in my opinion – coincidentally the game would have been total shit if the generator sucked. It feels more like a "real" D&D dungeon that requires you to frequently solve not just combat problems but serious exploration problems, like falling through a shaft into a section of the dungeon that you can't return to without somehow getting back up the shaft. It's something that sounds like it would suck for new players but the most serious ones are not frequent and only come around by the time you should hopefully be non-stupid enough to prepare for it. The rest of the game is mostly just filler to get there, except for the part where you can be a werewolf that runs from the police by jumping from rooftop to rooftop.

Morrowind tries to be a game that makes the rest of it not just filler, by having some very pretty environments (admittedly the Ashlands area is a bit lacking) and organic hidey-holes which you can explore and usually find a quest or steal some shit. It does this not by having deep writing, but by having a lot of simple yet workable quests and a lot of organizations to associate with and a lot of relationships to manipulate. It doesn't have to be well-written, just give you a lot of options.

There's also recall spells and you can get items enchanted for you just for having money, so I really don't understand why people complain about travelling in this game. It just makes you try to explore the world more carefully before you can afford to get the high end transportation options.

>>14092737

>No, I don't, stop projecting.

Refer back to:

>We've had these threads before. Skyrim never wins and it never wins for a reason.

What is the context within a thread such as this for a particular game "winning" or "losing" if not a fictitious battle you have in your mind and your mind alone?

>You're the one screeching last I checked.

Yeah, greentexting strawmen and stupid non-arguments (see: >>14092544), implying liking another game is some sort of cardinal sin, believing threads such as these are a matter of winning or losing etc.

>I'm actually pretty laid back

Laid back enough to sperg out about someone who likes a slightly different video game.

Take it easy. Morrowind isn't a flawless game by any means.

>>14092624

>We've had these threads before. Skyrim never wins and it never wins for a reason.

Y-yeah!! Our circlejerk hi/v/emind has always been able to circlejerk about morrowank. Dissenting opinions are NOT allowed on this tumblr!

Objectively, Skyrim does some things better than Morrowind. There's some things which Morrowind brings to the table that can be appreciated, which is why I played it so much, but the Morrowank hi/v/eminders are on undertale levels of denial, mostly because they coincide with being Kikebride cultists.

>>14092760

Player agency in a video game RPG means very little if the game doesn't react in any meaningful way to what you're doing.

>and a lot of relationships to manipulate

Such as?

>doesn't actually require good story writing

For anything other than a straight dungeon slog, yes it does. Have you ever played a pen and paper RPG with a narrative focus (e.g. Rogue Trader) with a DM who can't write scenarios for shit? It's not fun. Morrowind is the same, NPC characterization is dogshit in it, this much is undeniable and any sensible fan of the game would acknowledge it.

>>14092772

>if not a fictitious battle you have in your mind and your mind alone?

People discussing things and consensus being reached through said discussions over multiple threads. Again: you are the only one who is taking this to "EVERYTHING IS A BATTLE ONLINE!" I never said anything even close to that.

Also that person who was greentexting isn't me. Here on 8chan we have a feature called IDs. They're pretty handy. Maybe check them out. It's how I can identify you in this thread.

Honestly I'm not even reading the rest. It's clear you're fresh from reddit and need to lurk more. I won't be posting to you anymore until you do so. Again: if you wait long enough you'll see why Morrowind is more popular than Skyrim first hand. Sorry me pointing out that you're from reddit and are new and have no clue about board culture and are just repeating a thread that's been done to death here triggered you so much. Have a nice day.

>>14092782

Same, I must have put hundreds of hours in Morrowind, but these autists will stomach literally no criticism of it, nor even the slightest implication that another game did something better. I bring up NPC characterization just because Morrowind's NPCs are so undeniably dull to anyone but the most hardened fanboy.

>>14092806

>and consensus being reached through said discussions over multiple threads

Really? What metric did you use to assess that a consensus has actually been reached? It seems to me that you just shout and scream about other people being from reddit and use greentext and reaction images enough until they leave.

>I won't be posting to you anymore until you do so.

lol

>Again: if you wait long enough you'll see why Morrowind is more popular than Skyrim first hand.

Skyrim is more popular than Morrowind, unless you're talking about /v/ in particular. In which case, why be so arbitrary in your segmentation of the sample group?

All TES games suck major dick.

It's just that they all suck differently:

>Arena is too generic, but it's still an entertaining game that dated pretty good

>Daggerfall is too short, but still has an intresting story

>Morrowind is too ugly, but it's fucking hueg

>Oblivion looks like everyone had a stroke, but has some of the best sidequests

>Skyrim is irredeemable shit, but it makes for an above average porn game

>>14092782

>Y-yeah!! Our circlejerk hi/v/emind has always been able to circlejerk about morrowank. Dissenting opinions are NOT allowed on this tumblr!

I'm pointing out that these threads have been done to death, that's all. Also pointing out that other anon is from reddit. Sorry if you're reading more in to that than I'm putting out there but sounds like a personal problem.

>>14092789

It doesn't have to be flawless to be a better RPG than Oblivion. It just has to give some point to building a character. When every fight can be beaten with timing, when every lock can be picked by a low level because the mini game is fucking retardedly easy to figure out, so much so that they need hard skill level caps to even allow you to attempt a lock. When the game is so pointlessly easy and offers so little challenge that the only conceivable reason to install it is for "pretend time," then ANY RPG is a better RPG than Oblivion. And that's my point. I'll say it again: at least OP compared Morrowind with decent RPGs whereas you are comparing it with shit and claiming shit is superior. Your only arguments have been in praise of its streamlining and arcadey feel which do nothing but remove opportunities to roleplay.

>>14092701

AYO HOL UP

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand C0DA. The lore is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of metaphysics most of the references will go over a typical player’s head. There’s also Dagoth Ur’s nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Lovecraftian pulp literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these characters, to realise that they’re not just outlandish- they say something deep about UNIVERSE. As a consequence people who dislike C0DA truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the cosmic spirituality in Vivec dancing around his Muatra, which itself is a cryptic reference to Vedic epic Mahabharata. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Kikebride’s genius wit unfolds itself on their screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂

>>14092874

>when every lock can be picked by a low level because the mini game is fucking retardedly easy to figure out

I didn't think it was that easy, master-level locks were incredibly difficult to pick at lower levels.

>When every fight can be beaten with timing

This simply isn't true. Once you remove the level-scaling, you don't fuck with people like Daedra.

>Your only arguments have been in praise of its streamlining and arcadey feel which do nothing but remove opportunities to roleplay.

There are no opportunities to properly roleplay in Morrowind because the world does not respond to you in any meaningful way. Grandmasters of guilds will treat you, even if you're their direct deputy, in exactly the same way as they would if you were a no-name random for example, and there are a thousand other examples all on this same theme. I can barely remember a single time where you are offered multiple ways of resolving a quest in Morrowind, in other words: It's all in your head (your roleplaying, I mean).

>>14092947

>in any more meaningful way than Morrowind

Except it does.

>"Wow it's the Arena champion," is no different than "wow it's the nerevarine, lol"

One is the result of a side-questline, the other is the literal endgame of the main quest.

You can criticize it, but Oblivion and Skyrim do objectively have game worlds which respond to what you do moreso than Morrowind. Why can you not just accept this? Next you'll be defending Morrowind's conversation system.

>If you can't block, whack, block, clock, whack your way through the entirety of Oblivion without trouble, there is something wrong with you. Same goes with cheesing the stupid lockpicking/ talking games.

I'd agree with Oblivion's level-scaling making the game mind-numbing easy. The lockpicking minigame was still hard at lower levels when attempting master locks though.

>>14092971

>I'd agree with Oblivion's level-scaling making the game mind-numbing easy

Oblowmeon is the definition of artificial difficulty at higher levels if you play it normally instead of effectively, and even then it might not be enough.

It's really silly.

shut up

>>14092789

>For anything other than a straight dungeon slog, yes it does. Have you ever played a pen and paper RPG with a narrative focus (e.g. Rogue Trader) with a DM who can't write scenarios for shit? It's not fun. Morrowind is the same, NPC characterization is dogshit in it, this much is undeniable and any sensible fan of the game would acknowledge it.

Yes, I have actually, plenty of times, and you just ignored everything I said by saying that a good RPG video game needs good storytelling

Morrowind is great if you love story and lore, outside of that it's incredibly clunky and has gameplay mechanics that were outdated even in 2000.

i first played Morrowind in 2005 so no, It was one of the best games I ever played tbfqh..