568973 No.13968952
Have there been ANY games released in the past 2 years that have really set any benchmarks in graphical fidelity? A lot of normalfags will cite nuDoom but that honestly doesn't look that great too me. Is it really diminishing returns? And if yes, is the bottleneck seen through diminishing returns a hardware issue OR is it simply incapable artists? And if it is incapable artists, how would one learn and train artists to properly create photorealism that takes advantage of their hardware in a meaningful way? Do we simply not have enough disciplined graphical artists in general?
Pic related was the last set of tech demos I think that blew me away, the Unreal Engine 4 Room demos. And they are about a couple years old now
d52ab9 No.13968959
568973 No.13968976
>>13968959
Looks impressive, yet not much better than nuDoom, as far as graphics go. I guess I was expecting something much closer to photorealism by now. Where are muh unlimited details?
79ba1b No.13968978
It's incapable artists and programmers. The artists for being unable to capture a realism that requires imagination to finish it for immersion. The programmers for sucking at their jobs so badly to use the hardware to its full advantage.
c6d75c No.13968982
>>13968976
In the same place as consumer quantum computer
568973 No.13968988
>>13968978
Game engines are typically expected to pick up the slack for lazy programmers, but then you still end up with lazy artists who never use these engines to their full potential, never diving that deep into the engines dev tools. Are there any game engines out there that really take advantage of its given hardware that also have enough well designed tools to properly assist artists? It seems like all we're stuck with is mainly Unreal and Unity
ebfed7 No.13969002
>>13968952
I guess nuBattlefront, but that game was shit.
79ba1b No.13969008
>>13968988
As long as programmers don't use multi-core to its full advantage on architecures other then x86 then they will never achieve the best graphics fidelity they could. Disk R/W speeds and the x86 proccessor is holding it back on the technological side. It would require switching proccesors used for vidya over to something like powerpc or RISC-V and then optimizing the hell out of them and teaching parrellization to the programmers. Along with something like a SSD and using unix based systems a mandatory thing for vidya for the R/W speeds. That and GPU manufacturers letting vulkan get more widespread to get native ISA calls for better optimizing for corner cases.
Which means a whole new game engine that is not unreal which caters to x86 or unity which is just a peice of shit. But you don't need graphics fidelity to make fun games with unity or unreal engine though.
568973 No.13969022
>>13969002
The problem with graphics in games like Lootboxfront is that its plain to see that it was mainly done with ready-made effects from some third party mass-produced toolkits. Already made shaders, foliage shaders, water shaders.ets
>>13969008
Go away, you have 0 idea what you're talking about, please stop pretending you know more than billion dollar industrialists. It's embarrassing and cringey
1d84bd No.13969028
96003d No.13969031
>>13969022
>please stop pretending you know more than billion dollar industrialists
They don't seem to know much to begin with
0bdcd7 No.13969032
568973 No.13969039
>>13969031
They get their knowledge actually working in the industry, you get your knowledge from spergs on /tech/. Please just stop. You can only reinvent the wheel so many times before you get your own diminishing returns. And both Intel and AMD have done plenty of reinventing their own wheels
79ba1b No.13969040
>>13969022
>lol i have no arguement, the post
Corperate goons do what makes and saves shekels. It would cost alot of money to make a new game engine and possibly compiler from the ground up using parrellization on a arcitecture other then x86, and most are bribed to use windows instead of unix for game deving by microsoft on top of not being familiar with unix, lazy to learn, and it costs them more time/shekels.
Then there's the digital rights management side which they do that slows down dev time that is wasted keeping little kids out of a game for like twenty minutes with their very best DRM schemes. Next they are going full retard by not allowing proccessors other then x86 because of hardware DRM soon.
THEN there's the huge variety of GPU's and (((liscense))) argreements most devs that know what they are doing have with GPU makers in order to learn the ISA's of their GPU's better. Which means more money upfront to develope a SDK that is built effectively.
568973 No.13969047
>>13969040
It wouldn't cost them shit because the majority of supercomputers run on some flavor of Linux. Your arguments are the definition of Appeal to Novelty Fallacy. Go away, just stop please
280e60 No.13969048
How hard would it realistically be to be just a programmer who wants to make vidya and then find people who like video games and are skilled in creating assets and animations and talk them into setting up their own indie studio for shits and giggles and then make a good game with legitimate photorealistic graphics on a budget of pizza, drinks and electricity?
A studio made by a bunch of autistic hobbyists who just like vidya and have a lot of free time and work in their free time.
bd29e6 No.13969059
>>13969047
>>emoji poster is mentally challenged
Who could have guessed
79ba1b No.13969062
>>13969039
>lol I still have no arguement and you might teach people to dev better then me, the post
You aren't re-inventing the wheel switching to a RISC based proccessor. You are using a piston instead of jerryrigging twenty wheels to run in it's place. x86 is a CISC based proccessor which means that it produces high amounts of heat to pipe many instructions for proccessing at a time. This is because of fault correction, out of order execution shedulers, misc timing schedulers, and possibly a CISC to RISC converter being on the silicone die of x86 proccesors of today.
With RISC though you can eliminate the out of order execution schedulers, the fault correction, and the possible CISC to RISC converter by accounting for it at compile time in object files with commands in them accounting for such. Which means programmers accounting for parrellization, the order of execution, and timing it all and predicting all states of the entire software stack to reduce proccessor ISA level bugs or lock ups.
Stop now while you aren't too far behind.
568973 No.13969063
>>13969059
>Says smug anime poster
shake my head too be quite honest family
9550ad No.13969068
>>13969048
>a budget of pizza, drinks and electricity?
People have jobs for a reason.
d52ab9 No.13969069
79ba1b No.13969075
>>13969048
Very hard, it's like an art and not the liberal faggot kind.
>>13969047
>lets hire the few people in the world who know how to run massive parrellel work loads on super computers to make video games
>this is SO COST EFFECTIVE
no.avi
568973 No.13969083
>>13969062
>This is because of fault correction, out of order execution shedulers, misc timing schedulers
Which most RISC processors end up having already. The paradigm is bullshit. Just like how modern CISC designs are somewhat RISC in nature, modern RISC designs are becoming more CISC in nature by piling SIMD instruction sets on top. And CISC is preferable to engineers anyways simply because of its denser instruction set and more execution pipelines. It's partially why x86-64 is typically seen as the top performing architecture. And TDP is something that is already being solved simply by natural scaling. Intel Atoms run fanless and beat the shit out of ARM. Stop LARPing, you see the names of these shiny new processors and your limited knowledge of the industry tells you it must be good because its "modern"
0bdcd7 No.13969084
>>13969048
nerd rage, aspergers, and fighting about what to make would kill that project real quick. then they would blame it on external sabotage like someone was out to get them.
568973 No.13969092
>>13969075
I'm not the one who brought up the idea of moving over to an entirely novel ISA with little actual benefit just to make video games. It;s a solved game. Last generation everyone used PowerPC, today, all consoles use x86-64. There's a good reason for this.
27c324 No.13969098
>>13969092
>There's a good reason for this.
No, there isn't
79ba1b No.13969112
>>13969083
>he realised the entire industry is designing shit proccessors that are hybrid cisc risc peices of shit that hold the programmers hands
So why do you disagree with me? This is yet another reason why modern gaming is shit. The vidya compnay would need to design a peice of silicone without any of the botnet or hand holding features of things like x86_64 or powerpc
>And TDP is something that is already being solved simply by natural scaling. Intel Atoms run fanless and beat the shit out of ARM.
<natural scaling
Are you going to run a vidya game on a fanless intel atom and try to push for hyper-realistic graphics? You would be foolish to try. Modern intel and AMD x86 proccessors are running into the physical limitation of silicone's atomic width. This means if they increase the chip size on the die and account for heat dissipation they will run into a real physical limit at which they can't transfer instructions across the CPU faster enough without heat killing atoms shifting across at the same time. ARM is shit, x86 is shit, powerpc is somewhat shit, RISC-V is a step in the right direction but still mediocore compared to what could be developed. I am not worried about thermal design power, I am worried about heat dissipation, bandwith and transfer of instructions from the CPU, to the GPU, and then to the screen.
568973 No.13969119
>>13969112
Not sure why you would expect any fanless processor, be it x86 or ARM, to somehow spit out high-end graphics. That's not the point, the point I was trying to make was that x86-64 scales down to ARMs level just fine.
And you still fail to assert exactly why reinventing the wheel will somehow create miracles. Or even why RISC-V is a "step in the right direction"
79ba1b No.13969131
>>13969119
>you still fail to assert exactly why reinventing the wheel will somehow create miracles.
Read >>13969112 . It's not reinventing because making instructions execute more locally on a proccessor will reduce heat since it won't have to travel so far i.e CISC vs RISC.
>Or even why RISC-V is a "step in the right direction"
It's better because it specializes instructions in certain places on a proccessors die. Which means less shifting atoms across the proccessor. Which means less heat. But with still holding the programmers/compilers hand with schedulars and out of order execution it will waste space on the die that could be dedicated for better parellelization.
d8c4a9 No.13969136
>>13968959
Textures remind me of Saints Row 3, looks awful
568973 No.13969149
>>13969131
>It's better because it specializes instructions in certain places on a proccessors die.
And modern x86-64 processors don't? Are you implying there are no dedicated SIMD instruction blocks on modern processors? Do you have any idea how small the actual CPU cores on modern processor dies are? Protip; look at how small a single CPU core is on this Skylake die compared to the GPU
79ba1b No.13969163
>>13969149
They make it so small because they don't want to leave much space between instructions if it has to transfer on the die. Did you know there is still 8086 instructions on the modern x86 die or it is emulated? Why do we need such old, general, never used, slow, and hot instructions on the die or even emulated? The answer is backwards compatibility with the ibm pc. Which means more heat and space on the die the instructions have to move across. It could get even smaller on the die if all these old legacy and unused instructions were eliminated.
d52ab9 No.13969169
>>13969136
How? Are you talking about the chromatic aberration? That can be disabled.
568973 No.13969190
>>13969163
There's nothing wrong with backwards compatibility anon, and the actual 8086 portion of modern x86-64 cores is astronomically small. The original 8086 processor only had 72 instructions. The total footprint is negligible
79ba1b No.13969205
>>13969190
>There's nothing wrong with backwards compatibility anon
OP wanted the best graphics. Get rid of the 8086 instruction set, the i186, the i286, the i386, the i486, the i586, the i686, and then switch to a more energy effecient/power efficient/heat effecient proccessor and that will help OP "negligiblely" compounded over seven generations of cruft. Ontop of the other instructions in this thread.
568973 No.13969213
>>13969205
What little improvements you hope to get will be far less then what it's worth if anything at all. Case in point, modern ARM v8 chips. their performance is ass until you start building them up for higher TDPs which require active cooling in which case there's absolutely no benefit from just using x86-64. The advantages ARM had are now all gone. And ARM was designed with RISC in mind from day one
79ba1b No.13969219
>>13969213
>Case in point, modern ARM v8 chips
>(((ARM v8)))
>out of order scheduler
>holds compiler/programmers hand for errors
>(((ARM kikezone)))
>proprietary everything that you have no control over and have to pay out the ass for the ISA manual which you won't even get the full version of because of (((reasons)))
>shitty risc implementation overall
I already called this shit. Why is this even a example? It's a laughing stock if anything.
b82a37 No.13969232
>>13969039
>They get their knowledge actually working in the industry, you get your knowledge from spergs on /tech/
Code monkeys get their knowledge from worthless degrees in university which the vidya industry chews up and spits back out. None of them are skilled enough in code to actually accomplish anything substantial outside doing what their told to do by their boss and the ones who do know are so specialized in their assigned job they'd get royally fucked if they tried to do anything else in the company they work for. All good coders and programmers learn from studying computer science by themselves and practice the coding on their own. Incidentally everyone who is competent at coding don't actually want to be part of the vidya industry and avoid it like the plague.
2b5033 No.13969239
>>13968952
>Have there been ANY games released in the past 2 years that have really set any benchmarks in graphical fidelity?
nuDoom did. It looked amazing on strong hardware after disabling the postblur and was the first real graphical advancement we'd had in years. I was playing that at release with everything cranked up at 1440p at around 100-120fps and it was glorious.
Other than that, Shekel Yiddizen is gorgeous but has no gameplay and likely never will have any meaningful gameplay.
>Is it really diminishing returns?
No, it's poor people. I work for vidya and the target hardware these days is just depressing as everyone's chasing after Chinabux and their systems are like eMachines..
568973 No.13969244
>>13969239
I remember pirating nuDoom and cranking everything to max and too be honest while it looked fantastic it didn't really look much better than shooters from previous years
3e9a24 No.13969281
666070 No.13969291
>>13969244
what i found most impressive about nudoom was how smooth it looked, how good the reflections looked (the muted reflections of light on the barrel of your super shotgun looked exactly the way it should), and how well it ran on average hardware. that said, the engine limitations vis a vis only 12 monsters can spawn at once etc probably had a lot to do with the performance
4cd1f8 No.13969326
>>13969083
>Intel Atoms run fanless and beat the shit out of ARM.
I have a tablet with Intel Atom. It runs too hot and eats battery like crazy. For this sort of use, ARM is better. For PCs, though, you don't need to go fanless.
d52ab9 No.13969625
>>13969205
I totally understand this videogame discussion
a74199 No.13970547
uncharted 4, uncharted 4.5 and horizon zero dawn. it's hard to make these games on PC any more because of how expensive it can be to make a full game that takes advantage of the latest graphics hardware. So you get highly specialized games built for under powered consoles, but because of how highly specialized they are, they can push quite a few graphical boundaries.
5f5b90 No.13970570
>>13970547
>Uncharted and Horizon
42bac9 No.13970960
>>13968952
Wait, is that an actual dynamically generated screenshot from a gameplay? It's fucking gorgeous.
899df7 No.13970978
>>13970960
No, its a tech demo
42bac9 No.13970980
>>13969048
It wouldn't be the first time that happened and they shit out an awesome game.
42bac9 No.13971009
>>13969205
>Get rid of the 8086 instruction set
Seriously nigger?
Seriously?
Add, add with carry, logical and? THESE are the instructions that are holding back modern gaming? What the fuck is wrong with you? How are you capable of typing with this level of retardation? What the fuck? How can society function with you pulling all the intelligence from around you like a black hole? how??
6f2405 No.13971012
>>13970547
>Thinks Horizon is a good looking game.
>Says its hard to make good looking games on PC.
>Mentions only Ps4 games.
We have a system wars cuckchan infestation.
3b1fcf No.13971052
>>13971012
can you stop throwing buzzwords around and just talk normally? this isn't some secret club you dumb retard.
899df7 No.13971067
>>13971012
Board has been filled with Sonygaffers for a while.
Only got worse when NeoFag got taken down and 4cuck mods deleted all discussion of it which brought a shitton of cuckhanners here.
They started getting out of the woodwork here after PSX 2016 thought, much earlier than that event.
You either had PS4 owners who bought it for 3 games and were ok with it but weren't biased, guys who bought it but thought it was shit and nor worth it and the extremely rare Sonygger shill who would sometimes be derailed and get banned.
Nowadays we have faggots shilling the PSVR and the Pro.
>This is also console wars
No, you own and like the PS4?
Nothing wrong with
You own and like the Switch?
Nothing wrong with that
Blatantly shilling and defending kike tier shit associated with it, defending mediocre games because they're exclusive and pretending like they don't have massive issues is being a fanboy and should be dealt it by either the users or vols.
899df7 No.13971075
>>13971052
>this isn't some secret club
>Reddit spacing
Go back >>>/cuckchan/
5bac22 No.13971110
The Division has unmatched volumetric lighting/fog
5bac22 No.13971113
fc97c3 No.13971122
>>13968952
this image works both ways
6f2405 No.13971128
>>13971052
>Thinks cuckchan is a buzzword.
Do us a favor google this pics name then fuck off there and never return. You fucking mongoloid.
a74199 No.13971141
>>13971012
its hard because not enough people buy the games to justify making expensive games that push graphical boundaries. that audience is already really small.
6f2405 No.13971156
>>13971141
Odd when devs have said the Ps4 is a pain in the ass to work with.
32a77a No.13971160
>>13969048
It's easier if you start in your early twenties, and even easier than that if you start out as a modding group in high school. You could still theoretically get a group together, but the lack of spare time and similar work schedule tends to screw it up.
a74199 No.13971165
>>13971156
did they? I think there's a few reasons why they wouldn't really care about difficulties with working on the platform. It's odd they would say that because I've often heard the opposite argument, due to the x86 platform it would be really easy to work with because it's essentially a PC environment. Are you mistaking it for the PS3?
6904e9 No.13971172
>>13971122
>this image works both ways
ee2db5 No.13971173
>>13970547
I haven't seen what high-end PC's are capable of the last few years but Uncharted 4 has some of the best graphics I've seen in a while. It really has that "wow" effect in a lot of places where you just stop and look at the environments for a while.
73adae No.13971179
Good graphics and high poly models take a lot of time and money with skilled artists. The only way you can make a game look REALLY good and have it be possible to run for over 15% of the PC market is if it's extremely linear and small scale, or have settings go so low that it's graphical edge is just gone like Crysis, which hardly anyone could run at the time at high settings but lower settings were basically potato mode. Lack of decent artists is a issue too who put little attention into action = reaction, in most games shooting a gun at a wall is pointless and unsatisfactory, shoot at a wall in FEAR, in that game there's an insane amount of dust that blows up and some very good particle effects, physics and destruction.
a74199 No.13971187
>>13971173
There's lots of nice little touches too, like under certain lighting conditions the cartilage in peoples ears will be illuminated by light or the miniature rock slides. I think those little details have a much bigger impact than 4096x4096 textures on a small brick.
6497b0 No.13971298
For some reason I've found that you're most likely to find groundbreaking graphics in driving games over any other genre at the moment; Driveclub, the NFS reboot alongside its recently released sequel Payback and GTA V with the NaturalVision shaders applied look the most impressive IMHO.
59cebe No.13971312
>>13970547
>>13971173
What do you think a PS4(pro) is? It's just outdated notebook hardware running NetBSD with a bit of DRM on top.
71a800 No.13971315
>>13971298
I would agree, until you look at the bystanders around the race.
6497b0 No.13971323
>>13971298
Huh, forgot to attach the other two photos. My bad. Have another one for NFS.
>>13971315
Yeah, that and the inflatable sign/punching bag or whatever it is that separates them, shading is completely wrong for the weather conditions and time of day.
a74199 No.13971328
>>13971312
its not PC (windows) is what it is.
715d5c No.13971334
>>13971052
>(1)
Cry more, you fucking bitch. Go back to reddit and suck liberal cock there.
3987aa No.13971337
>>13971323
I wanna fuck those cars
32707f No.13971356
>>13971337
>giant lizards
>on my board
52fa71 No.13971369
>>13968952
>ironically unironically making a thread about "MUH GRAPHIX"
you people are just apart of the normalfag cancer killing video games.
BLOATED COST OF PRODUCTION IS KILLING== fun ==!
>sixth generation of console hit
>Cost of develoment bloats
>Rareware could no longer afford to produce video games
>Rare hopes Nintenjew would buy them
>Microcock buy Rare
>???
>video games die
9e8d0f No.13971725
>>13971312
What's your point? Doesn't that mean it's even harder for them to make impressive-looking games? Why is that a negative for them?
a62378 No.13971735
Phantom Pain is pretty impressive for its quality and its optiomization combined.
c6871b No.13971761
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Quantum Break was pretty nice graphically stylistically… But I spose Remedy always have done "real world" textures pretty well.
Yes, It's Microsoft- but it can still fry a decent GPU trying to get Ultra settings on a beefy PC, so my 1050Ti has no fucking hope.
899df7 No.13971797
>>13971328
>Complaining about Windows while using a console
Console warrior >>>/out/
899df7 No.13971808
>>13971761
Quantum Break is full of cut corners, has a shitty filter and low res textures and most levels are static as fuck to cut on processing power though, just like Uncharted 4.
It doesn't look that great no matter where you play it.
c6871b No.13971825
>>13971808
>static levels
You're confusing that with linear, right? Because there are constantly shifting aspects of levels because of time- that's the whole premise of the game… There's a whole section with the hull of a ship constantly crashing off it's drydock attachments over and over again, as well as a train constantly smashing through the Monarch HQ building etc. that can be used as giant environmental weapons.
So although the game is ''linear" as fuck, I'd argue it's not static.
a74199 No.13971837
>>13971797
thats not a complaint you autist
12f6b6 No.13971885
>UHD 4K TEXTURES!
>still has clipping issues
c6871b No.13971962
>>13971885
>Clipping
>Somehow related to texturing
Do you even know what clipping is?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(computer_graphics)
947da2 No.13971977
>>13971825
Why do people use the term linear like its a dirty word?
I'd rather have a linear game like quantum break then "non linear" game like assassins creed.
Plus it wasn't that linear, you could make choices that actually effected the story and kind of affected the gameplay just a little.
c6871b No.13972027
>>13971977
Yeah, I understand that- but in the other anon's post (>>13971808) he was referring to the linear level design…
At least I think he was…
12f6b6 No.13972035
>>13971962
Never said cliiping and textures are related.
What I was pointing out was the fact that everyone gives a shit about insane textures but ignores when objects clip through each other constantly.
I see these 4K games but then the main character will cross their arms and they end up inside each other, or their realistic looking hair goes inside their eyes.
c6871b No.13972048
>>13972035
Isn't that a Z-buffering issue though? Unless it's a physics based mesh which is another thing- can't remember the term for that…
3a28d3 No.13972158
>>13972048
You're talking about a completely different kind of clipping (culling) than >>13972035 , who's talking about model clipping.
Completely getting rid of model clipping takes a mix of good animations, good collision meshes, and whatever the fuck people use for animating hair and fabric (soft body physics could work but is probably overkill).
715d5c No.13972205
>>13971735
Phantom Pain looks like shit. Why are there so many blind people fellating TPP's graphics? Have you never seen anything but an Xbox 360 game before?
c6871b No.13972276
>>13972158
Good point, there's so many techniques used in rendering these days it's getting hard to keep up with them.
44eb29 No.13972399
>>13972205
They're just Kuckjima shills, TPP has only decent graphics, and they only got there by having an empty ass world to compensate.
04259a No.13972411
Graphics would be much better if we would stop focusing on superfluous (((4K))) shit.
715d5c No.13972452
>>13972411
There's nothing jewish about having pixels too small for the eye to discern, anon. What's jewish is going BEYOND the resolution that gives you that effect. You want your UI to be as smooth as possible. If you can't see a difference between a regular resolution screen and, say, an iPad or iPhone's screen (or the laptops and desktops too, these days), you need your fucking eyes checked. Once we have hardware that can reliably push retina graphics, they'll be forced to improve textures, framerates, and polygons.
b38d4e No.13972522
>>13971369
The cost of production isn't what's driving up the cost of actually putting out the product. You have shareholders demanding every possible penny be squeezed out of a studio. You have SJW morons demanding 50% of developers have a vagina, and driving up costs and driving down gme value to make it happen. You have piss poor management hired because he's the brother of a shareholder. You have said management refactoring halfway through, abusing employees, and generally getting in the way of the people trying to get shit done.
ONE
bad manager will cost more than the cost of a full time expert graphics technician for the same amount of time.
You have unoptimized garbage being pushed through an causing bugs three stages down the pipeline. You have shit API's. In the massive garbage fire that is modern gaming development you're ignoring everything to focus on… high quality graphics. No. Fuck you. FUCK YOUR IGNORANT BULLSHIT.
a75f58 No.13972525
>>13968952
It has a lot to do with texture size, which has mostly stayed the same.
a75f58 No.13972566
>>13969059
>smug anime poster is a raging faggot
Really makes ya' think.
ced65d No.13972593
>>13972522
This man speaks truth.
Exploring graphics nowadays is the last thing you could reach out to. With most gaems being complete lootbox/early access crap (or console shit releasing outright unfinished), just making a good/above mediocre game (with actually inventive gameplay) sets you apart from the abundance of toxic waste.
It just baffles me to think that there are so many "artistic" styles that could be done in a game today that are being neglected because "muh realism".
aa2240 No.13972595
>>13969048
It takes waaay more time and money than you would think if your time is not made of people all over 150 IQ
Think about No Man Sky, I'm pretty sure they started like this and ended up wherever they are now.
Also, Time=Money in case you forget
96ef8b No.13972922
96ef8b No.13973049
wait is that nigger shill still around who wants games to become cheaper to produce so they can focus entirely on marketing
007320 No.13973092
The next step in graphix is going to be "multilayer modeling," where the internal organs and systems of a character are both modeled and functional.
Realistic healing, reactions, and survival based mechanics will emerge from this.
Eventually when ai reaches an event horizon you'll be able to have full conversations with in game characters and events will generate themselves based on npc's individual motivations ambitions and goals, though all npc will will in actuality be driven by a singular ai that controls them all through a complicated series of functions.
899df7 No.13973122
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13973092
Maybe in an ideal world
007320 No.13973140
>>13973122
>The future is shitty cash grabs on repeat for all eternity
It certainly feels like that now, but one day a turbo autist will make a break through because he wants to fuck his perfect god ai waifu and we will all benefit from the struggles of Autismstein. Just like lightbulbs, airplanes and the internet.
Glory to Mankind
a74199 No.13973143
>>13973092
sounds like a remarkably stupid waste of resources.
007320 No.13973162
>>13973143
>resources will have the same value and output capacity 10 years from now as they had 50 years ago
Yeah, and we'll never have the capability of flight. Have some imagination, anon. Or at least the capacity to predict based on prior events
a74199 No.13973179
>>13973162
>have some imagination
describe some practical use that will benefit game play.
b38d4e No.13973204
>>13973162 You're missing the point, faggot. Emulating a heart, a spleen, and a liver is a massive and utterly wasteful idea.Even emulating a human brain for the sake of creating AI is enormously wasteful. You can use the same silicone to just emulate the things the player interacts with for 1 millionth the cost.
007320 No.13973224
>>13973204
>resources will have the same value and output capacity 10 years from now as they had 50 years ago
>resources will have the same value and output capacity 10 years from now as they had 50 years ago
>resources will have the same value and output capacity 10 years from now as they had 50 years ago
>resources will have the same value and output capacity 10 years from now as they had 50 years ago
>resources will have the same value and output capacity 10 years from now as they had 50 years ago
>resources will have the same value and output capacity 10 years from now as they had 50 years ago
No anon, it is you that is missing the point.
96110c No.13973237
>>13973092
You want better models, when they can't even use the ability of the Geo-Mod in most games, because they have no idea how to tell the story in such an environment?
a74199 No.13973243
>>13973224
look at all those good reasons for wasting resources on things players will never see or care about.
007320 No.13973249
>>13973237
>Things in the future will be the exact same as they are now
Nevermind, you faggots will never get it
b7603c No.13973267
>People sperging over x86-64
You do realise that RISC-V is already being used on nvidia graphics cards?
Not to mention that unless you go 4K upper tier cards don't give a flying fuck about modern gamesunless of course it's a shitty console port bit since we are in a place where it is now common to see 1 shade painted characters that look like they have been in an oil plant one can hardly expect to suddenly get handed a technical masterpiece
0f0400 No.13973278
>>13972522
>ONE
>bad manager will cost more than the cost of a full time expert graphics technician for the same amount of time.
Pure truth right there. When banks want to clean house, they kick VPs out to the curb first as they not only have higher salaries than entire branches, but also jeopardize the institution the most because of their position and quickly get replaced by sharper, younger and more jewish successors. I can only dream of this happening in vidya, minus the jewish part, since leadership and retarded managers are partly to blame with the shit that's happening nowadays.
96110c No.13973376
>>13973249
>Nevermind, you faggots will never get it.
Our world isn't the hogfather movie where things become, just because you belief in them.
b38d4e No.13973381
>>13973267
filtered multistage specular lighting, shadowed 3-d micromesh, and high quality body hair are what's needed to make a realistic human skin. That shits expensive.
007320 No.13973534
>>13973376
But that's literally how it works
The things that I wished for when I was young have been falling into my lap over time on a consistent basis since as far back as I can remember.
Usually on a several year lag though, results may vary
1038be No.13973596
>>13969008
>Along with something like a SSD and using unix based systems a mandatory thing for vidya for the R/W speeds
Wow, faster drives read to faster "R/W" speeds? I'm surprised you didn't also find a way to stretch "lower latency" across another four sentences.
79ba1b No.13974781
>>13973596
Lower latency is different from thoroughput of a drive. If you have a 40MB R/W from a drive you need to define what bus it will travel across to give latency times. With a SSD the bus can become a bottleneck, but you then have to worry about everything on the CPU and how effeciently the GPU is receiving commands i.e thoroughput of such.
With modern PCI-E 3.1 busses and eventually 4.0 with a thoroughput of 31.5GB a clock cycle you aren't going to see much of a problem until the CPU stops being a bottleneck for latency of transfering commands from disk to CPU this is where the latency starts effecting visible performance to GPU and then to the screen.
I honestly don't know how they would make busses have less latency and more bandwidth. Does someone else know better?
8f3a7b No.13974831
4ccc6a No.13974905
>>13969205
>>13969119
>>13969213
The anon who is arguing to get rid of the x86 architecture is correct, IBM POWER architecture would actually improve gaming quite a lot if and only if the IBM shills are correct. Fact is x86 is not the most powerful architecture and there are legit reasons to stop using it. Granted any kind of switch to ARM for gaming is retarded, but ARM is not the only alternative architecture. The three big architectures are ARM, x86, and POWER right now. ARM is designed for low power consumption for its performance, which is lower than x86, so obviously it is useless for anything other than mobile, which will never be cutting edge. POWER however is a serious contender for replacing x86 as a gaming platform, as it gets much better performance than x86. The reason that we aren't on POWER is because consumer level hardware does not exist for it yet, and even then it will take a lot of adjusting to write software that can "catch up" to the POWER architecture's real potential.
I cant speak for any other claims made.
0a0975 No.13975388
>>13970547
>they can push quite a few graphical boundaries
Name every single one.
05e4d5 No.13975446
No because of 2 reasons:
>The complete death of artists (now we only have california arts shit)
>Big studios using technological advances to get lazier while small studios don't have the resources to pull off better graphics
And 2 years is too short of a timeframe, more like this decade.
12aa97 No.13975457
I still remember CoD w@w campaign, and the soldiers had minute, gritty fabric textures and.beads of.sweat on their pored faces. I couldn't wait to see where graphics technologies would.end up ten years. Fucking nowhere since then.
6f0191 No.13975470
>>13974905
>>13969008
FUCKING LOL
this is complete and total retard thinking along the lines of "if GPUs are faster than CPUs then why do we even have CPUs".
POWER architecture is not designed for client workloads, it is for server and HPC use NOT for desktop machines and it is NOT faster than x86 on any tasks which are sensitive to instruction latency (i.e. how long it takes for an instruction to enter the pipeline and then complete).
the fact is that x86-64 ISA plays host to the fastest CPUs in the world in terms of latency. even AMD's potato Zen core is many times faster than POWER in terms of latency and while ARM also has a low-latency design it is lacking in compute throughput even in the biggest ARM cores which IS important – take the poor performance of current-gen game consoles which are based on the extremely low-latency but also low-throughput Jaguar CPU core design. Like it or not, Intel's x86-64-based "big cores" ("Lake" family) are the best fusion in the world of low latency and high throughput. this is a FACT.
anti-x86-64 shillery is just down to ignorance and/or trolling at this point, same as "devs can't make use of multi-core".
LEARN ABOUT AMDAHL'S LAW YOU GOD DAMN RETARDS.
in a machine that has a dedicated massively parallel processor like a GPU, a multi-core CPU is not particularly useful beyond a couple of extra cores to handle complex subsystems. games are already making solid use of quad-core CPUs and anything further is just going to be adding load to the game to make it seem like the game is "omg so multicore optimized". case in point Crysis 3, almost impossible to run on "Very High" settings on a dual-core CPU because the "Very High" setting makes the game run physics on ""individual leaves and blades of grass."" The "high" setting looks identical in screenshots and a Core i3-6100 isn't CPU-limited even with a 1080 Ti.
I'm so fucking sick and tired of kids who don't know a god damn thing about computers or programming talking about this game being poorly optimized or that hardware being superior to this hardware, just
SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STOP POSTING LIKE YOU FUCKING KNOW SOMETHING
a22a16 No.13975479
>>13974905
>Cheaper Xeon E5 loses to a vague un-named Power8
I really want IBM LARPer retards to leave
>>13969092
This
>b-but I'm smarter than actual supercomputer and hardware makers check these graphs compiled by fanboys!
a22a16 No.13975484
>>13975470
Nono anon you don't understand! Power is different and exotic thus its somehow better! My friends on /tech/ told me so aren't I smart?!
6f0191 No.13975546
>>13975484
reminds me of back in 1994 when I had a falling out with a upper-class "friend" (I was middle-class and we were only "friends" because we were both more into computer gaming than console gaming unlike the other teens) who got REALLY BUTTHURT that my "slow" and "outdated" Am386DX-40 machine could run Doom while his dad's amazing and brand-new mac quadra with the same clock speed, 40 MHz, couldn't.
later marathon came out and I sneered at it because I was already loading custom wads from the internet and hacking the game myself using dehacked. now as an oldfag I can admit that marathon was pretty cool but goddamn if he wasn't such a fucking smug shithead about his "superior" mac. whereever you are, eat shit cody.
for xmas that year my dad upgraded my machine to 8MB of RAM and added a cyrix fasmath 80387 FPU that he managed to nick from his job, heh. incredibly it could run quake at a pretty solid 40 FPS in 320x240 mode X, I knew people with 486es that didn't run that well. I wish I still had that machine
2b5033 No.13975584
>>13974905
x86 shits all over power8 for gaming as x86 has far better single thread performance and gamedevs don't have the time or experience for parallelism. God help us if a current year gamedev attempts to make non-trivial use of threads, like what's happening now with Shekel Yiddizen and its 400+ spinlocks.
4ccc6a No.13975707
>>13975470
First two sentences make no sense, so I don't have a response to them.
>muh instruction latency
Do you have any statistics to back that up?
Also, i'm not sure why the rest of this post goes onto a tangent about Crysis 3, which I didn't mention. Anyway in modern times we can expect 8-core optimization to be important since both the PS4 and Xbox One have 8-cores. The problem with multicore being the new frontier for speed increases is not something that is unique to POWER and it's much superior threading with 8-way SMT, (compared to intel 2-way (((hyperthreading))). Also please don't pretend that HPC hardware isn't viable for consoles or gaming, have you forgotten the cell processor that the ps3 used?
>>13975546
This is a great story, yes i'm sure that just by bringing up something other than IBM PC hardware I am a macfaggot who drinks coffee - also DOOM not running on it in 1993 is a software problem, has absolutely nothing to do with the hardware so you might as well be bragging about being able to play mario on a nintendo system… today that machine can probably run doom just fine. consider https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7A8VYw_ncM
proving your point about doom to be just total bullshit
>>13975479
>>13975584
Please, refer to my video both of you. Also game devs not knowing how to use threads is expected, the real elite are people who have to write the cryengine and unreal engine, because they have to be competent while building a sandbox for legions of retarded game developers. This is why games all use the same middleware today.
https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?htmlfid=POV03212USEN
Sorry that I cant compress it, i only have a core 2 duo CPU right now so it's not fast enough to re-encode the video
568973 No.13975942
>>13975707
>I am a macfaggot
>I have a core 2 duo
Look out lads we have a real hardware expert in here
309e86 No.13975963
>>13975707
In the first 30 seconds of your video they state that the Power8 system they're using is clocked nearly 1GHz higher than the Intel equivalent. For clock the Power8 is absolutely awful. I don't think IBM is the most unbiased source here
I really think you need to leave
bf9a3b No.13976025
>muh graphix
>current console gen 4 years old
>multiplat is king
>forced platform parity
Yeah, it's really weird there is no progress.
366dd1 No.13976041
>>13972522
>bad manager will cost more than the cost of a full time expert graphics technician for the same amount of time.
Graphics are generally second place to Marketing which can bloat and equal the entire cost of the game itself or more. That said when cutting out Marketing graphics is generally the biggest thing that takes up development and Devs have admitted this comes at the cost of everything else.
2121e4 No.13976045
>>13976025
>muh graphix
There is nothing wrong with graphics when it isn't the only main selling point of the game
>current console gen 4 years old
Excluding the last few generations of consoles developers would work hard to find every last bit of horsepower instead of slapping together pre-made bullshit in UE4
>multiplat is king
Always was.
>forced platform parity
Forced by who?
I know this is bait and you're (1) and done. Get a picture that isn't for ants next time you come baiting like this is cuckchan.
bf9a3b No.13976070
>>13976045
>Excluding the last few generations of consoles
So we're talking over a decade ago, things change.
>Forced by who?
By the developers you fucking dingdong.
>muh bait
Are you fucking retarded? These are the only correct answers. /v/ will always go full autism (muh RISC-V, muh optimization).
That's not to say there hasn't been improvements, there has been tons of improvements of last gen, primarily PBR and dynamic area lights. Some games even have realtime GI/indirect lightning. But /v/ doesn't care, because MUH SHADERS. All you faggots care about is high resolution models and textures.
05e4d5 No.13976325
>>13976070
This reads like that "6GB? Try 500GB!" youtube comment.
58290c No.13976378
>>13968952
>Is it really diminishing returns?
Yeah in a sense. The big graphical upgrades in the last fifteen years has been higher res textures and models with higher polygon counts. Those, where done well, have basically reached very realistic levels. This is why shits looked the same for the last few years. Devs have been lazily adding shitty filters and effects on top of it but those don't do much.
The secret to graphics improvement moving forward is 100% lighting. That's why OP's screenshot looks so good. Of course the problem here is that great lighting requires knowledge of mathematics and physics, which modern devs obviously don't have. So we're fucked for now.
bf9a3b No.13976385
>>13976325
>6GB? Try 500GB!
What the hell are you sperging about?
2121e4 No.13976392
>>13976070
>All you faggots care about is high resolution models and textures.
I care about game play which is the main thing lacking from common games but graphics have stagnated now too and there is no excuse for it. It's a symptom of a larger problem in the industry.
>So we're talking over a decade ago, things change.
"Things change" isn't an argument. How about we explore the core of the issue. Large companies like EA have swallowed everything in their path and outsourced all development out to code monkeys in sweat shops. Same thing happened to animation in both the states and Japan. Everything is shit for a reason: people keep buying shit.
>By the developers you fucking dingdong.
Replace "developers" with "publishers" and you'll have a better argument. That said, they are no authority and again the reason for lack of innovation comes down to normalfags buying shit and even defending it.
>Are you fucking retarded? These are the only correct answers.
<muh line of thinking is correct and anyone opposed to it is simply a normalfag/hipster/autism because I say
Oh so you're exactly the type of idiot I'm talking about I understand now.
bf9a3b No.13976416
>>13976392
>How about we explore the core of the issue
The core of the issue of visuals not improving within the generation is that anything previous to this gen was not x86, i.e you had a lot of room to expand within the hardware as you went along because the platform was mostly an unknown quantity. This gen with everything being pretty much x86 there's nothing to grow with, it's a known quantity.
>muh normalfags
Yup, you're retarded.
2b5033 No.13976683
>>13970992
>painkiller
>super slow fightan
Why taunt me.
595db6 No.13976746
>>13976683
Could you rephrase
>>13976416
>Theres no room to improve
Go back to ResetEra with your industry shilling please, thank you
b38d4e No.13977123
>>13976378
That sounds like a tool problem to me, and a need for even faster render rigs. Render the scene for the developer in real time as he edits and he won't need a degree in math
b38d4e No.13977126
0abf0e No.13977132
>>13976746
You forgot to call them a pedo lover. You shame us all.
b38d4e No.13977137
>>13976416
Seriously? We know what we're working with and that's why progress is slow? Do you, like, put your head down and run full speed into a wall before each post?
19b150 No.13977147
>>13975546
>old school AMD
My nigger
c3aee2 No.13977154
>>13976746
not him, but the game looks like the opposite of painkiller. they've forgotten how to make a fast fps.
899df7 No.13977160
>>13977154
>but the game looks like the opposite of painkiller. they've forgotten how to make a fast fps.
You can tell that from 10 seconds of pre alpha gameplay footage?
>Painkiller
>Fast
Nigger' I'll hit you
Painkiller movement was slow as shit, what was fast was your reaction times to deal with the enemies and their attacks.
c3aee2 No.13977210
>>13977160
yes, I can tell from 10 seconds of pre alpha gameplay footage.
player is constantly using irons for what is probably a dinky starter pistol. there are dumb useless "powers" like that shockwave thing. dashing everywhere.
if it was painkiller, he would bunnyhop around the map and shoot that hairy snail thing in the face with a shotgun. maybe you think painkiller is slow because you didn't hit the space bar more than once in a row?
05bc09 No.13977212
>>13969232
>Incidentally everyone who is competent at coding don't actually want to be part of the vidya industry and avoid it like the plague.
Could you elaborate? Isn't it a golden opportunity to be the next Carmack? Or make a game so well optimized that it runs in any rig making the selling range way higher and unexpectedly pleasing the costumers giving you a fantastic word of mouth advantage to competition?
899df7 No.13977222
>>13977210
>Implying that shit isn't pretty much required during the WWI sections
Nigger you haven't see what the game offers yet, its a showcase and nothing more.
fda87e No.13977228
>>13968952
The great graphics push has slowed down a lot because of 4K hardware. Everyone wants 4K for some retarded reason, and modern consoles can't handle it, so every other improvement is effectively on hold. Even PC is going to take a while to effectively catch up to this, currently only 1070+ fags can handle it, and most of the current gen machines are running 1060 / AMD 580, and that's not even counting the people who haven't upgraded yet.
Honestly though, I'm not even mad. Graphics faggotry is shit and needs to die.
>>13975707
Imagine retroactively becoming a faggot by defending mac computers past and present. Amazing.
d59bd3 No.13977238
Not featured in this pic but world shadows project upon smoke.
b38d4e No.13977248
>>13976041
You completely avoided my point about all the shit that makes all development expensive to focus on which kind of development is relatively most expensive. Meaning, once again, you're using a magnifying glass to look at one tree in a burning forest.
b38d4e No.13977256
>>13977238
>Everyone wants 4K for some retarded reason
Blame reviewers for only running 4k and only judging games and cards by their 4k performance.
899df7 No.13977257
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13977238
Who gives a shit?
Massive could make a nigger taking a shit look good.
This is a 2007 game
Fuck Ubisoft fuck it to hell along with their shitty fucking games.
c3aee2 No.13977269
>>13977222
it's not promising when every shot they're previewing showcases shitty mechanics. I'll reserve final judgement for when I finish the game, obviously. but you're delusional if you think such glaring issues don't exist just because all they have to show is a vertical slice. who is to say those mechanics aren't final?
>>13977228
>only 1070+ fags can handle this
my 760 could pump out 90% of what I asked from it, and was only replaced (with a 1070) for non-performance related reasons.
>graphics faggotry is shit and needs to die.
this
bc1c70 No.13977287
PT still has the most impressive photorealistic graphics I've seen.
899df7 No.13977325
>>13977287
of course it looks good, its a fucking walking simulator
05e4d5 No.13977438
>>13977287
Yeah, you can probably get something that looks like modern games on a ps2 if you make an indoors walking simulator like that. why am I even talking reason to a consoletard
899df7 No.13977484
>>13977438
>why am I even talking reason to a consoletard
because they weren't so prominent here 4 years ago
73a572 No.13977570
>>13977256
There's also the VR meme to take into account.
>4K virtually eliminates the screendoor effect
<90fps@4K is unfeasible without foveated rendering
<foveated rendering necessitates eye tracking
<(((they))) will track what you look at, once the tech's feasible
It's a fucking double-edged sword. For all its benefits, eye tracking's just gonna be exploited so you get screwed for looking at a boob too long. Well, maybe not for something like that, but I think I'm right to be paranoid.
11a53b No.13977582
>>13977257
And Company of Heroes from 2006 had fully destructible environments.
bf9a3b No.13977610
>>13977137
>we know what this platform is capable of
>let's not do that
If you know exactly what the platform can do from the start, how do you expand out from there? There is minuscule difference in quality between launch games and current games, because there is nothing extra to tap unlike something like the Cell or Emotion Engine where no one knew what the fuck they were doing starting out. How is that hard to understand?
A good example is Killzone: Shadow Fall which has IBL, dynamic area lights and volumetric lights yet is still a launch title. I think it even has lit particles, but probably no GI other than SH.
05e4d5 No.13977644
>>13977570
>unspoiler 2d loli porn
>don't avert eyes from lewd regions
>get your door knocked by whatever is Canada's equivalent of the FBI
1ff667 No.13977666
4682af No.13977715
>>13977570
When will graphics drivers be updated to start drawing at the center of the Foveal region and spiral outwards from there, ditching the "draw from top left to bottom right" methodology? A timer could be used so that after about 16 milliseconds or so, the frame is committed to the video output and the next one begun, regardless of how far out into the peripheral was actually rendered. Honestly, you only need top fidelity inside the foveal region anyway, middling fidelity in the blend region, and blurry shite for the peripheral. It's how your eyes/brain work, so why over-render areas the human player isn't going to look at anyway?
6904e9 No.13977720
>>13977132
>You forgot to call them a pedo lover.
>them
>a
Only SJWs use the singular they.
a867d2 No.13977732
>>13977160
>Painkiller movement was slow as shit
Someone wasn't bunny hopping
b38d4e No.13977735
>>13977570
Bull fucking shit. The human eye moves 900 degrees per second, with unpredictable stopping location. 90 FPS isn't nearly fast enough to cope with that.
bf9a3b No.13977743
>>13977715
This is already being done, but instead of changing the fundamentals of rendering, you just reduce LOD in the peripheral region, which is much easier. Lots of research is being done to combine it with eye tracking for dynamic handling of LOD within your field of view.
4682af No.13977768
>>13977743
That's cool, and smart, but the idea I had in mind would also guarantee a solid frame rate. You start by drawing the #1 most important region of the screen and render until you run out of time (16ms for 60 FPS). You commit the frame regardless of how far out it made it. You never go over time.
It would be a more fundamental shift than aggressive LOD, so harder to implement, but it seems clever.
899df7 No.13977773
>>13977610
>If you know exactly what the platform can do from the start, how do you expand out from there?
Are you fucking retarded?
Why expand when they barely use an inch of what it can do and consumers will lap it up regardless?
0c9aab No.13977775
There has been a game to really set a benchmark in graphical fidelity since Metal Slug 3.
0a0975 No.13977781
>>13977238
>but world shadows project upon smoke
Serious Sam did that shit a million years ago
b38d4e No.13977782
>>13977768
That's a terrible idea. Your idea of the most important part of the scene has almost nothing to do with where the player is looking at any one moment.
bf9a3b No.13977793
>>13977773
>muh normalfag boogyman
Fuck off, retard.
899df7 No.13977801
>>13977775
>What is KoF XIII?
I fucking lose Metal Slug and its God tier spritework, but come on.
KoF XIII is the peak of spritework and no one will likely invest on something like that ever again.
>>13977793
>So afraid of being called a normalfag he sees the word "normalfag" where its not
Hello cuckchan normalfaggot
98a10d No.13977804
>>13977735
It's fast enough that you can't see flickering and can't tell if the tracking beam lags, and that's all you really need. With eye-tracking you can do selective motion blur so that objects you're tracking are clear and things that move across your retina get blurred - they do not naturally do that in modern VR due to low persistence, you get stop-motion effect all around if you go without blur.
0abf0e No.13977809
>>13977773
That is some seriously retarded 4chan logic your using there.
4682af No.13977814
>>13977782
>That's a terrible idea.
Not an argument.
I'd be interested in some real world eye-tracking data. I highly doubt the player is looking at the periphery of a computer monitor (even in the traditional setup) and probably even more so with VR. The foveal is real, and it makes sense (to me) to prioritize it in every draw call.
52fa71 No.13977826
>>13972522
>cost of production isn't what's driving up the cost of actually putting out the product
you are objectively retarded. The problem of bloated production cost go back to 2001. Its the reason why Shenmue 3 art is being outsourced to street shitters. Yes that can all be nebulously blamed on "bad management" but that does not refute the fact that the FUCKING BLOATED COST OF PRODUCTION IS A LARGE PART OF WHY THEY ARE TAKING LESS RISK. If developers worked with a middle market budget they could potentially be more profitable but that also is more risky. Spending money on marketing and catering to SJW, and Graphic Whores is a sure thing. At the end of the day making a good video game is more of a gable then pumping money into graphics, shallow virtue signaling and advertising.
>>>/reddit/
0c9aab No.13977861
>>13977801
Never liked XIII's rotoscoping on 3D models personally.
899df7 No.13977881
>>13977809
Are you pretending like its not what we're seeing here?
>>13977826
Its not production costs
Its marketing costs that are driving up costs of these shitty fucking games.
They cut corners on everything, completely disregard attention to detail, use proprietary engines so they don't have to pay for a license.
You think Destiny 2, Call of Duty WWII and NuFront 2 cost a lot to make?
I'd argue Bethshit like NuDoom and NuPrey cost more to make but had less marketing costs.
Its all marketing
You know how much did Modern Warfare 2 cost to make?
50 Million
Do you know how much it cost to market?
200 Million
They want the normalfag audience and will push out garbage if they can market it and make people of aware of it, thats how ot works.
2b5033 No.13977890
>>13977160
>played painkiller without bunny hopping and thought it was slow
Jesus, are you a game journo?
Shit was amazing, and it has full air control so you can do crazy things. I just finished replaying the original and the booh expansion on trauma. It's still a great game today but is probably too hard for today's FPS audience, especially the difficulty spike on Leningrad.
98a10d No.13977892
>>13977826
Adjusted for inflation, production costs have been consistently dropping for the past decade across all developers. There isn't any valid rationale, they're just money hungry kikes, is all.
899df7 No.13977895
>>13977861
Fair enough, building sprites from scratch is indeed different and the sprites would indeed look different if not based on polygon models.
11a53b No.13977902
>>13977890
What the hell is bunnyhopping
t. someone who has never played many FPS
2b5033 No.13977908
>>13977228
There's no PC hardware that can run 4k at good frame rates yet. 4k@60 is a console pleb target, no one should be playing @60 in 3 CYE.
98a10d No.13977910
>>13977902
It's a bug whereupon you don't lose momentum if you jump on the same frame as you landed.
52fa71 No.13977911
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13972522
also an afterthought,
This meme that its the "Overplayed Management/CEO" is true as far as its symptomatic of the nepotism of "Jewry" qua "Jewry". But companies would not rationally spend billions on a useless CEO if profit was the soul motive. In other words, it cannot be logically both be "Muh profit motive" and "Muh greedy CEO" at the same time. If its the profit motive the bloated cost of production still influenced the decision making process. If its "Muh greedy CEO" then it still does not address the issue of the bloated cost of production. For example Rareware (see embedded Jewtube) sold-out because they could not afford to remain independent after the 6th generation because of the INCREASE COST OF DEVELOPMENT.
>>13977881
>Its not production costs
nigger you mean to tell me that a team of 5 guys in 1990 can do the same work done by a modern game development team? Don't you even understand why "Indie" games became popular to produce? Because the Bloated Cost of developing "AAA" games left a vacuum in the market. Too bad it's being filled by shitty SJW and their pretentious "art" games. But that is just how the world works.
899df7 No.13977919
>>13977890
The minigun is still fucking trash with its weird spread and hit detection
>Leningrad
I don't think I ever finished Battle Out of Hell, should get to it
>You didn't bunnyhop
See
>>13977222
e5330b No.13977922
I don't really dabble much in technology. A friend of mine who programs on the side and is an electrical engineer says that games are exceedingly unoptimized. He says that with a multi cored , decent CPU we should be getting games with far more advanced everything and running exceedingly well. This true much?
2b5033 No.13977925
>>13977902
Many FPS games prior to the console apocalypse of 2005 copied the bugs of Quake-era games because they formed a 'skilled movement' system everyone had gotten really good at. Bunnyhopping was one of those bugs that was intentionally added to games, where you'd gain speed if you jumped immediately after a jump. And air control lets you turn in mid-air which people would use to do obvious things like jump around corners but also to change the distance of a jump with careful wiggling.
52fa71 No.13977928
>>13977892
>Adjusted for inflation, production costs have been consistently dropping
this is not true, In fact their is some stupid video by Tarmack floating around the internet that makes this claim and actually refutes itself with its own evidence provided.
98a10d No.13977931
>>13977919
Speaking of miniguns. Every dev that makes miniguns inaccurate or puts long windup times should be lined up and shot with 30 mm vulkan cannon. Which would be most of them.
2b5033 No.13977941
>>13977919
The minigun is great, has almost no spread, and is hitscan. I don't know what to say, son. Maybe you played the fuckawful remake rather than the real thing?
899df7 No.13977942
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>13977911
>nigger you mean to tell me that a team of 5 guys in 1990 can do the same work done by a modern game development team?
Yes, most AAA companies are PR and marketing.
See >>13976683
Titanfall 2 art and animations were done by one or two guys.
>>13970992
3a28d3 No.13977943
>>13977931
Does it count if I'm working on a turn-based game where triple barreled miniguns are so inaccurate from recoil that the best strategy is dual wielding?
52fa71 No.13977950
^sorry wrong video. But Rare did make a public statement once as to why they sold to Microsoft and the cost of development was the prime motivator.
>>13977942
And I am saying the Bloated Cost of devilment is a large reason why it is rational to spend money on PR and marketing.
Because:
Higher Cost = More Risk = Need to sell more = Large Demographic of Potential Consumers = Catering to the lowest common denominator = Catering to SJW because controversy can hurt sales
fuck, its like talking to a brick wall.
98a10d No.13977953
>>13977943
Miniguns are basically extreme rapid fire sniper rifles, complete with long sturdy barrels and all. Also they fire between 30 and 80 rounds per second, and no bigger miniguns are not slower. That said, you have no hopes of wielding a minigun barehanded. Not only does the piece of shit itself weighs more than you are, it's ammo box is triple that weight yet.
52fa71 No.13977958
2b5033 No.13977959
>>13977922
I'm an AA gamedev and they are absurdly unoptimized today. I'm cleaning up a Unity game for release at the moment and the code is horrifying. A lot of the code is written like you'd write bad jQuery code as no one knows how to even use datastructures anymore.
899df7 No.13977962
>>13977941
>Painkiller Black is the shitty remake by Nordic
You've obviously never played the game, using the minigun at anything but close-midrange is like pissing against an fully armored Medieval Knight.
You have to wait for the Bayonet WWI Skellie soldiers to line up and be close before you fuck them up and hope the bigger ones don't fuck you up.
Its a pain in the ass
3a28d3 No.13977969
>>13977953
I forgot it's not a minigun, just a triple barreled automatic rifle found as a rare drop from a joke enemy.
98a10d No.13977975
>>13977959
Back in the day, you couldn't hire pajeet for a bag of curry, because he wouldn't be able to make an assembly program that actually runs. Few years later, that would be C program but it would still crash immediately with plentiful memory violations provided. Now that managed is a thing, even the most incompetent codemonkeys can take a jab at it and produce something that doesn't crash, even if's exceedingly ass-backwards and slow.
98a10d No.13977981
>>13977975
>managed memory
899df7 No.13977989
>>13977950
>Higher Cost
There is no higher cost, they reuse assets, sounds and animations constantly while making money out of lazy shit DLC that modders could do in 1 months time and now are trying to force microtransactions in it.
Fucking GTAV was profitable on its first 10 hours of release and 2K now wants Microtransactions on all their games.
The high production costs is a ResetEra tier meme so the normalfags they pander with overblown marketing budgets will actually defend this shitty industry
2b5033 No.13977990
>>13977962
>You've obviously never played the game
I literally just finished painkiller black on trauma this morning. I replay this game every few years.
>using the minigun at anything but close-midrange is like pissing
Maybe you just can't aim? Painkiller's minigun is unusually accurate at distance, although if you aren't a shitter you'll arc stakes at range.
>wait for the Bayonet WWI Skellie soldiers to line up
… why are you using a non-AoE weapon against groups? Circle them to round them up into a pack and hit them with explosives.
bf9a3b No.13977999
>>13977959
>Unity
No surprises there, the barrier of entry to Unity is so low and people use it for the wrong kind of games.
2b5033 No.13978014
>>13977975
The devs of the game I'm working on aren't Pajeets, they're almost all WHITE MALES from SF. Gamedevs are not what they used to be. They're basically webdevs thanks to extremely sophisticated engines letting them get away with awful code.
899df7 No.13978019
>>13977908
4K 60FPS < 2K 144FPS
Unless you want to buy a fucking Titan V for 3K for not only vidya but 3D modelling and and editing/actually developing shit that requires that level of processing power right now.
98a10d No.13978037
>>13978014
>san fran
You know what actually, at this point hiring pajeets would be a better option.
fda87e No.13978039
>>13977908
>>13978019
This. Hell I'd gladly run 1080p at a higher refresh than 4K at 60 (or less…). Getting better frame rates absolutely will improve the way games feel, and in fast paced games will improve your play.
4K is a meme anyway.
c3aee2 No.13978059
>>13978014
this is what happens when compsci programs are a joke and c and c++ are "too hard"
>>13978037
don't want to increase dependence on that shithole of a country. we should be hiring vets, not pajeets.
98a10d No.13978071
>>13978059
You know that's not gonna happen. That extra $50 grand that you spend hiring a veteran is a $50 grand not going into your pocket. You know full well the kikes that run the industry will not stand for that.
e5330b No.13978073
>>13977959
Yeah I have a gtx 1080 and an overclocked 1700x and he was telling me with a properly coded game i should be running everything excellently due to how much they could offload processing onto cpu cores. I have no idea how any of it works. Im a chef, not a technical guy.
2b5033 No.13978088
>>13978071
They do hire vets near the end of development to come in and clean up. I do that contract work.
98a10d No.13978103
>>13978088
This doesn't makes my point any less valid. If anything, it proves it.
899df7 No.13978110
>>13977990
>Using the stakes against mob enemies
No
>Explosives are unlimited and can kill all the mob enemy shit they throw at you
No, WWI shit is the worst fucking thing because you have to rely on the minigun for everything on it including the tanks that just make you waste even more explosives
2b5033 No.13978156
>>13978110
I feel like I need to explain how to play cuphead..
Ok, so in painkiller, you shouldn't be using the minigun on mobs of enemies at long range, that's dumb. You use the minigun w/cards against bosses, to pick off lone enemies at some range that you don't have time to stake, and sometimes to pick off enemies at closer range that are too close to explode.
For large numbers of mobile enemies, you corral them into a group and use explosives (rockets, stake grenades, that sniper bouncy ball thing, etc.) or fire (booh).
For packs of enemies that aren't very mobile, you stake them while jumping around as sanic. You also stake things as they approach and stake things you can get away with staking because it's fun. If you jump and stake their feet to the ground you can harass their corpse by mashing control and it sprays money like a loot pinata.
For 'big guys', you freeze them and one shot them.
>WWI shit is the worst fucking thing because you have to rely on the minigun for everything
I literally did not use the minigun on Leningrad trauma.
bf9a3b No.13978159
>>13978088
Hey AA dubsman, tell us about some of your work. I'm eager to hear about it.
4ccc6a No.13978172
>>13975942
Can you read at all? That's mid-sentence.
"This is a great story, yes i'm sure that just by bringing up something other than IBM PC hardware I am a macfaggot who drinks coffee"
>>13977228
Retard, it's not "defending mac computers". The point that the guy was making was that because he could run platform exclusives like Doom, that it somehow was saying something about the hardware's capabilities. When in reality, modern source ports prove that he's just wrong and mac hardware at the time could have run Doom, it's just that it's a platform exclusive and was never ported.
Let's put it another way: Do you think that nintendo has better hardware, because only a nintendo system can run Mario?
>>13975963
At least this is a legitimate criticism- but it's easy to do further research and find the basis for comparing these two CPU's: The 12-Core POWER8 at 3.1 ghz is $2500, and the
Intel E5-2697V2, which has 12 cores at 2.7 ghz is $2614. So it's in fact completely reasonable to compare the two as they both cost the same amount of money. These are the sources:
https://ark.intel.com/products/75283/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2697-v2-30M-Cache-2_70-GHz
https://www-03.ibm.com/systems/power/advantages/smartpaper/memory-bandwidth.html#hl-power8s-12-cpus-versus-xeons-18-cpus
a58a70 No.13978220
>>13968952
Static room demos stop being impressive when you change to dynamic instead of baked lighting. We're still a generation out from fully dynamic global illumination.
2b5033 No.13978227
>>13978159
I don't want to get into specifics as it'd not be a good career move to be associated with hatechan. But right now it's just the usual Unity cleanup: massive garbage generation causing hitching, heavy code running per-frame for no reason (with Unity, that's often the DOM-like Component searches which get expensive and spherecasts), and the lack of anything resembling event-driven code.
899df7 No.13978235
>>13978156
>Ok, so in painkiller, you shouldn't be using the minigun on mobs of enemies at long range
No shit, the spread and hitreg is fucking awful
>Thats dumb
No, its not, not only this is not how a minigun works but you also have to avoid the long range hitscan fire of 25% of the mob enemies.
So you have to bunnyhop and rocket launcher fire until you run out so you can circle around the mob and waste 30 boolets to kill a single enemy.
Shit like that isn't fun or skillfull, its a boring chore.
Its like pretending the Toad flood sections in Serious Sam are fun, especially the Secound Encounter where you can Rocket Jump and then only have to shoot rockets at them for 3 hours.
899df7 No.13978245
>>13978227
You the guy who worked with Warren Specter?
2b5033 No.13978250
bf9a3b No.13978256
>>13978227
>lack of anything resembling event-driven code
>in fucking Unity
3a28d3 No.13978265
>>13978220
>We're still a generation out from fully dynamic global illumination
Tesseract has realtime global illumination but no one gives a shit about it because the attached instagib game isn't as good as Cube 2 Sauerbraten.
2b5033 No.13978266
>>13978256
It's a common issue with Unity games as it's much easier to just check everything per frame in Update/FixedUpdate. Same thing with timers. Gamedevs can't into asynchronous code anymore so their code is generally either checking Time every frame or using coroutines which have their own issues.
949a0e No.13978274
bf9a3b No.13978298
>>13978266
>Gamedevs can't into asynchronous code anymore
Which is odd, since most of them are just web developers in disguise where pretty much everything is event driven today.
>>13978265
The Tomorrow Children has real-time GI.
c3aee2 No.13978325
>>13978298
that's a great example of zero artistic competence being carried by technology.
bf9a3b No.13978359
>>13978325
I don't know about that. There's a lot of work behind the looks of this game, even if you might not like it.
c3aee2 No.13978373
>>13978359
I dunno if I'd grant something credibility just because it took a lot of work to make. I'm sure battleborn took a lot of work to make, and it looks awful.
c6d0cd No.13978807
>>13977212
So you can get paid peanuts, the game director gets the credit for everything you've done and then you're fired and replaced by a less competent coder?
75204d No.13978836
My cousin refuses to play older games. He's been wanting a legend of dragoon remake for a while now but won't play it because the graphics are shit. It's weird. He has pretty good taste in vidya, except he won't play game without next gen graphics.
50c57a No.13978875
>>13973224
resources will be far far greater, they will also still be fucking finite, maybe spend it on something more meaningful.
c3aee2 No.13978898
>>13978836
>He has pretty good taste in vidya, except he won't play game without next gen graphics.
contradictory statement
32707f No.13978904
>>13978836
>He has pretty good taste in vidya, except he won't play game without next gen graphics.
1a408f No.13978922
>>13978836
>He has pretty good taste in vidya, except he won't play game without next gen graphics.
9fb887 No.13978979
899df7 No.13978993
9e5866 No.13978997
>>13978979
What a ground-breaking statement.
6ab822 No.13979003
>>13978836
>He has pretty good taste in vidya, except he won't play game without next gen graphics.
9fb887 No.13979032
>>13978997
A platitude is a truth you're tired of avoiding.
723032 No.13979074
>>13977715
Because often the human's eye may flick around to other areas of the screen without actually moving the mouse, so now they're looking at part of the world that is in the blurry area of the screen. People don't spend 100% of the time with their gaze locked to the centre of the screen, we look around because our eyes are faster and more precise than our hands. Your mouse movement is analogous to head movement. Yes, you need it to make a large change in viewing direction, but you don't swing your head around for every little movement of the eyes.
Same reason DoF doesn't work in video games and makes them basically unplayable.
c3aee2 No.13979137
>>13979074
eye-tracking dof might be interesting. the current implementation of it is awful, though.
9fb887 No.13979150
>>13979074
The only way to successfully use eye tracking is to check for eye movement and focus every few milliseconds and render everything in an oval in the direction the person is looking.
32707f No.13979159
>>13979137
>>13979074
DoF is absolutely retarded because we already have natural DoF. Its like layering the same effect twice. Why do devs do this and why does blur in general exist is fucking beyond me.
52fa71 No.13979169
>>13977989
>There is no higher cost
that statement is so objectively stupid.
f21fa1 No.13979740
>>13979169
From 7th to 8th gen?
Barely any difference
Both the PS4 and Xbone were sold at a profit due to their weaksauce already outdated hardware compared to the PS3 and Xbox 360 which were both sold at a loss to the company, Nintendo games always have outdated visuals and most of the money goes towards marketing.
Theres barely been any improvements over visuals, textures or otherwise and some of the most popular games out there look like 2004 releases.
You're fucking wrong
"Higher production costs" is a meme, its gospel spread on the likes of Reddit, Gamefaqs and NeoFag/ResetEra as an excuse and while it was actually relevant during the firsf half of 7th Gen it sure as fuck isn't now.
9fb887 No.13980344
>>13979740
>using consoles
>ever
>for anything
b8aad6 No.13980481
>>13969062
No. x86 is now microcode running on a RISC core. This microcode is largely undocumented. RISC won. x86 hangs around as a compatibility layer in microcode to keep the intel shitbox running.
aa3072 No.13980528
>>13971298
>second pic
That's a supreme car for a supreme gentleman.
b8aad6 No.13980537
>>13969092
>There's a good reason for this.
available street shitters and build tools are not good reasons.
>>13969112
The CPU is a red herring. GPU is where the work gets done. rasterization is on the way out, so the role of marshaling vertex data will be taken away from the CPU. sphere (path) tracing, ray tracing, physics systems: all running 100% on the GPU. Which is a massive parallel RISC floating point pixel fucker.
>>13969190
It has no footprint. It is a microcode compatibility layer. It's literally software. It can be patched via firmware updates. It's shit on top of shit, in a impressive shitpile reaching to the sky.
>>13969213
I think having acutal documentation for the hardware and the ability to license and produce not-ABC-backdoored silicon is a pretty fucking huge benefit.
IBM Power9 nigger. Intel pee-pants shills doing chan damage control. lol.
af8632 No.13980545
>>13973534
they have a limited mind anon.
let the poor fools be.
79ba1b No.13980750
>>13980481
>No. x86 is now microcode running on a RISC core.
What part of
>and possibly a CISC to RISC converter being on the silicone die of x86 proccesors of today.
Did you fucking miss?
>>13980537
>The CPU is a red herring. GPU is where the work gets done. rasterization is on the way out, so the role of marshaling vertex data will be taken away from the CPU. sphere (path) tracing, ray tracing, physics systems: all running 100% on the GPU. Which is a massive parallel RISC floating point pixel fucker.
I know this, y u no real time ray trace yet? GPU's are already fucking blazing fast. The real problem is the time it takes from the main CPU usually x86 to transfer instructions to the GPU to be proccessed after disk R/W and GPU software has been optimized. Hence my incessent faggotry about CPU's being such shit.
>It has no footprint. It is a microcode compatibility layer. It's literally software. It can be patched via firmware updates. It's shit on top of shit, in a impressive shitpile reaching to the sky.
What is this meme? I said possibly above because I have no way to confirm this myself. Is there some way to test the RISC layer underneath of x86 proccessors? Or to recompile a entire system ala gentoo style and use the straight up RISC based arcitecture underneath? I already have my hands on a deblobbed to the max and HAP bit flipped x86 system. How do I remove even more botnet or even test for it?
You say shit ontop of shit. What is the shit underneath the x86 layer? Does it have a architecture name? I read somewhere that proccessor arcitectures have been pre-planned for the past 20 ish years. Is there any truth to that?
05e4d5 No.13980896
>>13978836
>He has pretty good taste in vidya, except he won't play game without next gen graphics.
You and your boyfriend have shit taste.
381fb1 No.13981425
>>13971298
That has literally always been the case, though.