/v/ - Video Games

There's nothing inherently wrong with simplicity, not everything needs to be complex in order to be deep or good (or even fun), but it should at least be much harder to master than it is to learn. See how despite all the cool powers and shit they give you in Dishonored, the game completely fails to challenge your use in any of them. Though if you think there's something wrong with simplicity, you might also as well make the case for why Tetris might be a mediocre shallow game. After all, doesn't the RNG which determines what blocks you get in Tetris have the same issues as in Cuphead, which completely prevents the game from being taken seriously in a competitive manner due to the completely unbalanced nature of the difficulty in the game despite the already-existing competitive Tetris scene?

To bring this back to Cuphead, and to point out again what you seem to have completely missed from the Mark Brown video (whose title says it's about how you are challenged, rather than the telegraphing involved, as you somehow seemed to get from the video), it challenges your ability to jump and shoot by having projectiles which move in all kinds of patterns, by having the boss move over the screen, by adding in popcorn enemies, to increase the amount of killable threats, by environmental hazards preventing you from jumping everywhere, by largely telegraphed area of denial attacks, and limited lanes preventing you from getting a clear shot on the boss, on top of adding in a dose of RNG to put the emphasis more on reflexive reactions than memorization and trial 'n error. That's only a fraction of how it challenges you to make the best use of the game mechanics, and I don't believe that the ensuing difficulty is affected too much by the RNG.

>I already stated how they rarely do and how it still amounts to the same results.

And I've just before stated how I found to be the difficulty within phases to be mostly consistent in the presence of RNG.

>Ok fucking lol. The level design in Doom is it's worst aspect about it by far.

What? No seriously, what? You can't just talk shit about Doom like that without explaining yourself.

>Jesus christ, no more I'm done

If you're really done then you shouldn't have posted at all and left things on such loose ends. I'd also have loved for this to be over up until your repeated 'bad RNG' criticism got to meme levels and the blatant handwaving away of my breakdown of the RNG in Cuphead drove me up the fucking wall.

>There's no debating against somebody who's more invested in being right than being objective

You have planted the seeds of doubt in my mind and made me reconsider my thoughts on Cuphead heavily, making me reconsider on what I thought was good about the game and what could have been done better, which wouldn't have happened if there was almost nobody to challenge my viewpoints about it and made me consider others. I have long tried to start a deeper discussion about Cuphead too, here on /v/ and other parts of the internet, but the discussions would end long before they got anywhere meaningful. I'm actually grateful you lasted with me for this long (someone actually explaining their viewpoints on /v/, what a rarity), else I'd just have to stick with my own original thoughts about the game which were really more simplistic and flawed. Hence my annoyance with this bullshit you just pulled. You'd really have to just shitpost at me or ignore me to get me to stop posting, or get to a point where we both agree this isn't going anywhere.

>making a new thread just to keep throwing autistic walls of text

Holy shit please kill yourself, and after that someone tell me what the fuck was the patch I downloaded last night

>>13903717

What is up with this Souls tier autism? Its just a cartoony run 'n' gun, not some existentialist writing.

what the fuck is this autism

>>13903988

>>13903995

>Talking about games

>"Lel wat is dis autism? XD"

>>13903999

That's not a talk, that's an autistic monologue.

Was this text machine-made?

>>13903995

two autists met each other in a cuphead thread, they are still going at it.

>>13903744

>Still trying to pretend that shit is the truth

We all know it was a cut boss.

>>13904015

You don't play many games, don't ya?

Let the autist have their fun. I don't see you fags complaining in the morrowimf or NV threads about autists throwning walls of text at each other.

>>13904021

Name a better game to come out this year. I found nioh to be better, but that's just my opinion.

>>13904039

Do they start entire threads with walls of text and fucked up links like nigger OP?

>>13904045

Yes, look at the most recent NV thread.

>>13904015

>edgy cuphead fanart

kys

>>13904039

>Name a better game to come out this year

Super Mario Odyssey

Nearly a Tomato

Nioh

Cuphead as a whole is good due to the top-tier aesthetic and soundtrack, but the gameplay isn't anything special. Strip away the art and you've got a really casual Contra Hard Corps.

>>13904061

>• Fixed rapid-weapon-swap damage glitch

Rip speedrun

>>13903744

One time dubs are lies

>>13904039

>Name a better game to come out this year

My tastes are different from yours so you might not agree with this.

>NEO ATLAS 1469

>Hollow Knight

>Sonic Mania

>Gravity Rush 2

>Hand of Fate 2

>>13904067

>you've got a really casual Contra Hard Corps

You mean you get the Japanese version?

>>13904078

I don't know, the only nip version of a genesis game I've played through is BK3.

>>13904067

Since Contra, Metal Slug, and that entire genre is pretty much dead now, it's nice to see someone picking up the slack.

>>13904091

SNK said that they are planning a new Metal Slug.

>>13904085

The JP version of Hard Corps actually had a lifebar where you could tank three hits before losing a live, whereas it was completely removed in the US version where you just die in one hit as you normally do in Contra, probably so people would rent it longer. That, and lifebars in Contra are fucking disgusting. Normally the JP versions of old games have the more balanced difficulty and no censorship, though Genesis games seem to be the exception to this.

>>13904096

Seriously? I've never heard of that. Will it be a mobile game?

>>13904157

>though Genesis games seem to be the exception to this

The american version of Dynamite Headdy is garbage.

>>13904157

Oh and Bare Knuckle 3 is way better than SoR3

>>13904157

>actually had a lifebar where you could tank three hits before losing a live

Well shit, you were right. That really is Cuphead.

>>13904061

>Devil's goat attack turned out to be a bug after all?

I didn't think it was a bug either, I did an air dash though when I beat the devil, I didn't think to duck until I saw other people do it and thought there were just multiple ways to dodge it.

>>13904045

>>13904039

>>13904012

>>13904004

>>13903995

>>13903977

>MUH AUTISM XDDDD XDDDD XDDDD XDDDD

Kill yourself, kike. Quit trying to force your cancerous cuckchan meme here. Kike.

>>13905180

Kike.

>>13905190

Autism.

>>13904061

The goat and charge changes are major enough to make me reconsider slightly suggesting the game to other people, considering its other niche appeals. I liked learning that some bosses could be hit off screen once in a while too, it was a nice little bonus if you figured it out. Overall I think I'd probably suggest people pirate the unpatched version instead of the update, definitely before buying it.

>>13904061

>Weapon switch glitch fixed

I thought the devs liked fun

>>13905339

>boss

Brineybeard I think his name was, the one on the ship.

>weapons

peashooter and charge

>charms

Invincibility dash

>super

The first one

>girl

I guess Cala, I can't really remember any of the other female bosses

>>13905339

I did Charge and Spread until i realized charge did more dps than even the spread at point blank, so I switched to Charge and Normal. I would use other shit depending on the boss though.

The only charm I used was health and my favorite boss was the Spooktown Express.

>>13905339

>Boss

Baroness Von Bon Bon, had a lot of fun with her.

>Weapons

Can't say no to the Spreadshot and Charge.

>Charms

Smoke Bomb all day and Coffee as a close second, everything else need not apply

>Super

The ghost, although it can be a liability, its a cool idea.

>Girl

Cala Maria of course. Cagney Carnation as runner-up.

>>13904061

>Nigger Devil got cut out for probably other reasons, not censored, probably because its design was too boring

Or they got scared of Disney fucking their shit.

>>13905528

Everything else was terrible to me. Even smokescreen because having my character disappear made me misjudge the dash distance and die multiple times.

>>13905629

Coffee is always worthwhile since it gives you more opportunities to use your EX and super moves, increasing your overall damage output. Health just reduces how much damage you can do, and if you beat the boss without taking more than 2 hits, it's completely worthless.

So what's your cupsona, OP?

>>13905645

>Health just reduces how much damage you can do, and if you beat the boss without taking more than 2 hits, it's completely worthless.

>>13905637

>badatvideogames.jpg

So which is it, am I better for using health or bad?

>>13905672

Can everyone just admit that Gamegrumps has been shit since Jon left?

It's not funny. It's repetitive. $50 for a $5 shirt. Forced jokes. Sponsors nobody cares about.

This stuff is hot garbage.

>>13906347

Gamegrump turn to shit because your favorite screaming autist left, it was always bad, reddit.

>>13906443

Miss me with that 'unnecessarily cynical about video games' bullshit

>>13905669

Fights will just take longer since your damage will be lower and that might increase the chance of a mistake and you taking damage.

>>13906495

Gamegrumps isn't video games.

>>13904453

>The last picture.

Are they basically saying that they don't want to kill them seeing the "speech bubbles"?

>>13906656

You're making a strong argument against splatoon.

>>13904061

>Fixed Devil's goat attack so it hits ducking players

>sick air-dashes are the intended dodge method

Nice

>>13907654

FUCK, sorry to write that in this thread, I made a mistake

>>13907675

What you don't like the six or so WOW threads a week?

>they made the flower boss harder

>cuckhead and pozzman

>>13905339

Best girl is Grim Matchstick

>>13924390

>he's still going at it

Marche, is that you?

>>13923495

That's actually a pretty cool design.

>>13903710

>>13903717

Jesus fuck remember when I said I didn't want to get into a long debate from my very first post? This is fucking why.

>As opposed to all the time you spent in this thread up to now? As opposed to the dozen replies made over the course of several days?

You mean the ones that were actually less than a few posts long as apposed to your 6+ post autism? You knew what you had to do to continue the debate and you fucked it up. You get fucking real.

>If you're really done then you shouldn't have posted at all and left things on such loose ends.

Nigger you know exactly why I posted to begin with. And I said multiple times that you should condense your posts and you give me this shit. I've told you maybe half a dozen times to do this and you're still refusing to do it. So fuck it. Don't bitch when people call your posts annoying and autistic. Because that's what they are. I put your 6 post long retort in word and got just under 5000 fucking words. You're retarded if you think I'm being squeamish by not replying to that shit.

>>13924390

>>13924602

Anyone think Grim Matchstick would be easy to bully? haha

>>13926873

When you make a grand overarching generalizing statement such as 'all bosses in the game have/the game on the whole has bad RNG', then instead of nitpicking minor examples to prove your case, a stronger and more accurate argument would be to examine how RNG is applied to each boss in the game. And since you can't discuss the implementation of RNG and its influence on the difficulty without explaining how the attacks work and how they fit in the grander scheme of things, you end up with a list of how each boss works because bosses are all about their attacks. For the sake of quality, words couldn't be minced and details couldn't be omitted. What you got was a less-than-adequate – I never even got to Isle Three or Hell – breakdown of your claim and how I found it to actually apply to the bosses.

You can't just say something like 'all the levels are shit' and then name a few examples out of a present many, that'd just come off as generalizing or nitpicking and wouldn't paint an accurate image of the game. Unless you want to keep examples for your arguments quick and dirty. You may think I'm being autistic on purpose (not on purpose anyways) in order to overwhelm you with words, but in order for me to disprove such a small big claim I'd need to back it up with big evidence (as far as anecdotes go). I could say that you're wrong based on this one boss, but that'd be only one boss out of 19+ which you could easily dismiss as an outlier, and then we'd be nitpicking all day, which wouldn't get us anywhere really. Hence why that was the response you really deserved after clinging to your claim for so long. A list of examples with enclosed explanations. Here's this, here's why.

If you're really complaining about why making a grandiose statement about a game netted you a response the size of Jupiter, then you've quite frankly bitten off more than you can chew. You can't seriously expect people to keep it short when you wave these kind of generalizations around. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you're just imposing these abstract restrictions on me because you know that in order to seriously challenge your claims a good deal of space is required, but quite frankly I don't give a shit how short you expect me to keep it, nor would I ever ask the same of you.

>>13926911

Maybe if you keep that shit up long enough you can escape the discussion by shifting the topic to having everyone point at me and laugh at how much of an autist I am. I don't think that anyone outside of us seriously cares about the discussion we're having though.

>>13927310

>And since you can't discuss the implementation of RNG and its influence on the difficulty without explaining how the attacks work and how they fit in the grander scheme of things

You absolutely can. And you can do it in less than 6 posts. My statement about the RNG isn't a generalized one. I made specific examples with multiple bosses. Just because I don't want to name every single boss in detail doesn't detract from that statement. And when you actually do look into every boss you just addressed the bosses with completely different perspectives to ignore the adamant issues in each one. Like I said before. The discussion is no longer a debate. It's a filibuster.

>You can't just say something like 'all the levels are shit' and then name a few examples out of a present many

I can if the examples I present do a good job at describing the issues in the other levels. Bad level design can often have the same flaws that carry into other levels for example. Just as bad Pattern RNG can be used to describe most bosses because it's the same fundamental flaw that is easily presentable in many of the other bosses.

>then you've quite frankly bitten off more than you can chew.

More like you can't condense your posts and need to fluff them in order to have a point. Every other word in that screencap I made could have been condensed to make it easier to digest and respond to. Describing EVERY move every boss has in the game in your own words is not a method of debating this shit. It brings up to many variables to reasonably measure and debate with.

>You can't seriously expect people to keep it short when you wave these kind of generalizations around.

And you can't seriously ask a person to break down 5000 words in fine detail. You're acting like the amount of detail and accuracy is necessary with this when you're not even thinking about the fact that somebody has to go through all that shit and make roughly 2 sentences out of 1 in order to fully describe the flaws to an argument. You're absolutely delusional if you think that this is how a debate should be held on this board, format excluded.

>Maybe if you keep that shit up long enough you can escape the discussion by shifting the topic to having everyone point at me and laugh at how much of an autist I am.

You already did that by making the thread to an already dead argument. At this point all you need to do is keep replying. Seriously though. You know full well what you're doing by pulling this wall of word shit and then chastising me for not wanting to earnestly reply to it.

>>13927554

>And when you actually do look into every boss you just addressed the bosses with completely different perspectives to ignore the adamant issues in each one

Such as?

>Describing EVERY move every boss has in the game in your own words is not a method of debating this shit

But in this case it is, because EVERY move is in some way related to the RNG you speak of.

>I made specific examples with multiple bosses

About four, most of which are barely applicable to the rest of the game's 15 and more bosses. If suitable counter-examples exist, then it becomes hard to make definite generalizations.

>And you can't seriously ask a person to break down 5000 words in fine detail. You're acting like the amount of detail and accuracy is necessary with this when you're not even thinking about the fact that somebody has to go through all that shit

When every paragraph or two brings up your original claim to examine whether it is actually applicable and conclude most of the time it mostly isn't, it is. If I was brief, you'd probably accuse me of overlooking some shit you don't care to explain (as you are doing right now anyways), but I guess explaining myself beyond condensed greentext lines didn't help either.

>>13927655

>such as

Hold on lemme pull out my 10,000 word essay real quick.

>because EVERY move is in some way related to the RNG you speak of.

Where did I say EVERY move? More on that where did I say EVERY boss? You're forgetting that my statement was that a majority of the bosses had this issue and many of their moves had it as well. Just because I'm not willing to break down several hundred attack patterns doesn't mean my argument is somehow negated as false.

>About four

Much more. Go back to the archuve and re read my posts. I went into Queen Bee, Steamboat Willy, The robot, the dragon, the plant, the blue ball fucker and more.

>If suitable counter-examples exist, then it becomes hard to make definite generalizations.

Counter examples to what? I stated very clearly many attack patterns. And even then when I brought up Steamboat willy you were conveniantly ignoring how the squid was easier than any other attack because of (again) your dismissive "they're all equally difficult" rant which was empirically false. Keep in mind Steamboat willy alone took nearly half a post of space for 4 patterns to prepperly and definitively discuss. And you want me to reply to every single boss? This is why your arguments hold less ground. There's no depth to any of your points.

>When every paragraph or two brings up your original claim to examine whether it is actually applicable and conclude most of the time it mostly isn't, it is.

In your own words of course. If you actively spend time dismissing my claims as false because you're willing to twist your perception on them then there's no reason to respond genuinely to them.

>If I was brief, you'd probably accuse me of overlooking some shit you don't care to explain (as you are doing right now anyways)

I'm only accusing you of twisting your perception as to what's actually occurring in the game. And again, your posts are mostly fluff. You can still leave shit out even if you put 10,000 words into it.

>but I guess explaining myself beyond condensed greentext lines didn't help either.

Do you even know what the word condensed means? Seriously give it up. Nothing's going to result from this and I've told you that you should agree to disagree since the start. At this point all you can actually argue about is semantics and it's why this debate was doomed from the start. You're not willing to meet on any objective ground.

>>13928128

>Yet there's that one big wall 'o text which goes about that majority, the one you conveniently seem to constantly ignore

You mean the one that would take hours to go through and I constantly remind you that it can be cut down or condensed? Yea sure.

>But if I'm hearing this right, there are bosses which don't suffer from RNG (or not as much)? Which ones would that be?

Went over a few of them. The robot for example allowed you to control the patterns to some degree. Satan's moves are often balanced on the first phase, as are many other bosses on certain other phases.

>Not challenging a majority of the possible counter-examples claiming that your argument has not as much of a leg to stand on isn't?

Again. The filibuster argument. More words describing something doesn't correlate to a firmer argument.

>Those undefined attack patterns you refuse to get in any kind of depth for anymore, yet deride me for actually listing them?

Literally just went over Steamboat Willy and Queen be in fine example. Quit lying.

>that claim could hardly be considered true.

And here we go with semantics and subjective taste again.

>You said yourself how he doesn't even shoot during those attacks as you weren't even willing to consider the influence of the floating barrel in the challenge.

No I said that the squid does no damage in those attacks which makes it factually easier to deal with. The shooting was mentioned when you said it was harder to avoid attacks because of going blind which never actually happens because you have to go out of your way to actually become blind.

>For posts have I been pressing for specifics which you constantly seem to avoid

Specifics to you is obviously not in the same ballpark as to what's occurring in the game. Again, you're pushing your perception harder than the actual content.

>and now you're pulling this 'you're a lost cause' bullshit on me

You're a lost cause because you're directly doing what I said I would not respond to if you did it. I said from the start to limit your posts and directly state your examples for things in concise and direct manors.

>I asked you 'Such as?' in my previous post for specifics but then you responded to me with a blatant joke answer.

Because there is no significance to directly going against any of your points brought up since they must be addressed in detail. You're literally blaming me for not wanting to spend several hours debating something when I said from the start I was not willing to. If you were inclined to address my RNG statement you could have either spoken more directly about the bosses or broken it down into a more digestible amount. There is zero reason that you have to delve into every single boss attack and pattern in a long winded manor in 1 retort.

>I'm trying to get this discussion moving, but you're not even willing to cooperate.

Like I said. This isn't a discussion. It's a filibuster. Even in professional debate the use of over 10,000 words is considered a scummy move to pull. College illiterates do this all the time to win arguments because there's simply no way to rationally respond to such a large amount of ideas and terms in a stately manor.

>Why wouldn't you be the one twisting your perceptions who twisted your perception to arrive to the conclusion that I'm the one twisting my perception?

The thing is you could. But the difference is that when it comes to your posts it would take several hours to point them out.

>How so? By what example? Why do I have to keep asking you to explain yourself?

Steamboat Willy was enough to convince me that you're definitions for difficulty aren't objective. Much like the map design for Doom which objectively turns to shit and mazes on many maps (which says nothing about the gameplay, just the level design)

>You don't have to respond to everything in my previous six big posts. I really don't expect that much out of you anymore.

That's not necessarily the problem. Every move and ability needs to be broken down. Even if you spend 1 sentence explaining why a move isn't poorly thought out, I still need to spend more breaking down what you've already tried to detail. As debates move things are broken down to further illustrate points. If I wanted to illustrate any points you brought up it would have to be longer than your initial post. Though like I said before, much of it is fluff. My point is you're putting somebody else through more work than is necessary and it's exactly why I'm not engaging in it. You could have spent time on an individual boss or put their moves in more direct terms but you didn't.

At this point I'm saging. There's more meta discussion going on than the actual discussion of the game and I have a feeling that even if I did engage on your prior posts that it would just end as it is now. Again, there's no point in engaging in a debate with somebody who has no objective method to discuss things.

>>13928347

Also as a fun challenge. Try and respond to this post in less than 1 post. And you'll see why I'm refusing to address your 6 post long wall of words.

>>13928347

>No I said that the squid does no damage in those attacks which makes it factually easier to deal with

You're overlooking something major here. Those three attacks aren't even designed to be actually difficult. The seal attack is literally the same as the very first attack from the first boss in the game with an even slower and static base speed with an even greater gap between shots and greater space to move around in. It's objectively easier than the very first attack pattern in the game. The shark is literally about moving to a fixed safe spot. The squid doesn't even deal any damage. But to argue about them individually is pointless because that's not what the boss is about.

It's when the boat constantly shoots cannonballs along the pier and the barrel is trying to drop on your head that these attacks actually become challenging. The cannonball can throw off your jump timing with the seals by shooting a fourth projectile in the mix. The shark attack becomes nasty when the barrel decides to drop at you from the safe spot on top of being right in front of the boat's mouth. When a cannon ball forces you to jump into the ink shower, it suddenly becomes harder to avoid the ink balls, especially on Expert when the amount of ink balls are numerous with overlapping trajectories, so even though it does not deal any damage it might impair you enough to miss some visual telegraphing. It's not like you can or want to really stand still during the squid as you would during a shark attack. It's when they overlap when they are actually worth comparing because that's what you will be actually dealing with. To do otherwise is to miss the point of the boss entirely, and is why you can't talk about certain things in Cuphead without mentioning others.

>There is zero reason that you have to delve into every single boss attack and pattern in a long winded manor in 1 retort

Let me put it this way:

The majority of all slappable attacks come in a determined pattern. Only a fraction of them are actually completely determined by RNG.

The majority of boss phases do not even have enough attacks to cycle through and/or last long enough for everything to be cycled through where it's very improbable to consistently get the "easy" attacks.

'''The presence of parrying changes the meta of a few bosses

For the most part, the implementation of RNG in Cuphead is breddy gud. (It sure as hell is when compared to its peers, I'm playing Contra (NES) right now and the zako spawning is all over the place if you ask me, but that's the fun)

If you want to know my reasoning, you know where to look. That's the thing when talking about majorities. One or two examples hardly say anything about the majority, because not all bosses and all that stuff. Then we'd have to list examples, and then when we'd disagree about one or more examples we'd have to…

>Also as a fun challenge

Why the hell do you get to post using multiple posts now? Cunt.

>>13929120

>Those three attacks aren't even designed to be actually difficult.

>this game that is meant to challenge you isn't designed to be difficult

And this is where I'm coming from on you ignoring objective concepts in favor of being right.

>It's objectively easier than the very first attack pattern in the game. The shark is literally about moving to a fixed safe spot. The squid doesn't even deal any damage. But to argue about them individually is pointless because that's not what the boss is about.

Then what is the boss about? Giving you advice on advil? The fuck are you even trying to say at this point?

>It's when the boat constantly shoots cannonballs along the pier and the barrel is trying to drop on your head that these attacks actually become challenging.

And I'm saying some are more challenging than others by an objective standard here.

>the shark attack becomes nasty when the barrel decides to drop at you from the safe spot on top of being right in front of the boat's mouth

ok

>so even though it does not deal any damage it might impair you enough to miss some visual telegraphing.

It absolutely doesn't do this. Even if you have to jump over a cannon ball there's no actual requirement to move left or right assuming the barrel hasn't fallen. And even if it had and you had to move left or right you still wouldn't collect enough ink spots to impair you. The layering effect stacks to high. And even THEN if you were the blindness lasts such a short amount of time that you're already out of danger once you've made any necessary jumps that would cause you to collect the ink spots in the first place. Seriously it's not something you should ever have to consider in the fight and if that was the only pattern to occur over the shark and crabs then the fight would be easier. And even after that you're still only without sight, you can still last a good few moments provided you're capable of using your memory as to where the barrel is and the timing for the cannonballs. This is what I'm talking about with balance

>It's when they overlap when they are actually worth comparing because that's what you will be actually dealing with

The moves that compromise a layered pattern still determine the difficulty. A layered attack isn't within its own realm of context you know. How you can say the squid is just as difficult with the other attacks as any other sea animal is beyond any logic. So basically certain "overlaps" are harder than others if that appeases your autism.

>The majority of all slappable attacks come in a determined pattern.

I think you mean the other way around. Much of the pink's are shot at random directions.

>The majority of boss phases do not even have enough attacks to cycle through and/or last long enough for everything to be cycled through where it's very improbable to consistently get the "easy" attacks.

Again objectively false when you consider Steamboat willy. Multiple ink and crabs with less shark is objectively easier.

>'''The presence of parrying changes the meta of a few bosses

And it does little to nothing interesting on the rest.

>For the most part, the implementation of RNG in Cuphead is breddy gud.

It's absolutely not and we've been over this.

>If you want to know my reasoning, you know where to look.

It's not reasoning is the issue. You just spent 2 paragraphs being wrong on Steamboat willy and you did the same with the wall of text last thread.

>Why the hell do you get to post using multiple posts now? Cunt.

The fuck does that even mean? I didn't make more than 1 post and I was trying to tell you that you simply can't address all my points in less words. Which is why I'm not bothering with your gay ass 6 post 4,800 word count shit.

>>13929192

I've been calling it a mediocre game from the start. The faggots been going since last thread when I told him I didn't want to go into detail and he refused to get over the fact that the game's a 6/10 without the animation.

>>13904453

>second pic

fuck yeah, a new pic from her.

>>13904061

>Fixed rapid-weapon-swap damage glitch

>Slight charge weapon damage reduction

fug

>>13929439

>And this is where I'm coming from on you ignoring objective concepts in favor of being right.

maybe I should have added 'to be difficult ON THEIR OWN'

>Then what is the boss about?

It's about keeping check of multiple attack sources at once.

>It absolutely doesn't do this

It can impair you to the point where the mouth, the barrel, and Willy can barely even be seen.

>And even if it had and you had to move left or right you still wouldn't collect enough ink spots to impair you

By what fucking measure? Are you trying to sell me on the idea that it's a mathematical impossibility?

>And even THEN if you were the blindness lasts such a short amount of time that you're already out of danger once you've made any necessary jumps that would cause you to collect the ink spots in the first place

It lasts long enough for Willie to shoot his gun again and/or for another cannonball to be spat out. You're talking about what happens when you collide with only one ink drop as opposed to two/three.

>you can still last a good few moments provided you're capable of using your memory as to where the barrel is and the timing for the cannonballs

So it's actually challenging you by impairing information most people take for granted?

>This is what I'm talking about with balance

Before you take this to town, the shark attack can be reliably nullified by triggering the barrel when it is not at a point in front of the pier, which you should be given enough time to do so considering the shark will swim around in the background for about 3-4 seconds before coming ashore. So even if you do get stomped by the barrel with the shark taking up the rest of the pier, it happened because of your lack of foresight. All that remains is getting the boat cannonball timing right. The seals are one of the easiest attacks in the game (to repeat, an easier version of the very first attack pattern in the game) with a random cannonball thrown in for good measure. The squid is also just about jumping the cannonball and trying to avoid the ink blots, though it's rather forgiving about how much you can tank. But it's not like you really want to stand still and just take it either, you'd most likely be trying to make an effort to dodge them, and if you fail to it'll mess with you for the next attack. Especially when you're going for a fast time you want to be jumping all the time with the Charge Shot in order to line up your shot against Willy. The barrel remains a constant factor throughout all three, though it can be taken care of beforehand before the shark attacks. If you asked me, it's the seal attack which is the most challenging one, and that's not really saying something. This already is a rather easy boss to begin with save for its final phase and its looping fireballs.

>Again objectively false when you consider Steamboat willy. Multiple ink and crabs with less shark is objectively easier

If you say so, but that's only a minority. But what about the rest?

>I think you mean the other way around. Much of the pink's are shot at random directions.

Yes, their positioning tends to be random, but their order of appearance is usually static.

>And it does little to nothing interesting on the rest.

Heeeey, that's true. Seems after all that what makes a mechanic good is how it's used, glad you agree.

>It's absolutely not and we've been over this.

I conform to your rules and this is the kind of shit you give me? Is this is the kind of discussion you want? The only cases of outright poor implementations I've found were in Djinni, Beppi, and Baroness Bonbon, because their pink chances weren't static.

>>13929727

>maybe I should have added 'to be difficult ON THEIR OWN'

Even then they're still more difficult than one another.

>It's about keeping check of multiple attack sources at once.

Many of which are easier to deal with than others.

>It can impair you to the point where the mouth, the barrel, and Willy can barely even be seen.

If you're going out of your way to hit them sure.

>By what fucking measure? Are you trying to sell me on the idea that it's a mathematical impossibility?

If it's mathematically plausible then it's just that. Barely possible outside the realm of theory given my several dozen experiences with him on hard. Even so the measure is much less difficult than shark .

>It lasts long enough for Willie to shoot his gun again and/or for another cannonball to be spat out.

To which you already have the timing down for and could easily do blind regardless.

>You're talking about what happens when you collide with only one ink drop as opposed to two/three.

Nigger I've hit more than 4 and don't get blinded. The fuck are you on about?

>So it's actually challenging you by impairing information most people take for granted?

It's much less challenging than forcing you to jump on a constant basis because of the crabs or having your roam space cut by 3/4'ths. I'm not saying it's "do nothing and win" I'm saying it's objectively more easy than the other 2 sea creatures by a landslide.

>, the shark attack can be reliably nullified by triggering the barrel when it is not at a point in front of the pier,

So can the squid.

> which you should be given enough time to do so considering the shark will swim around in the background for about 3-4 seconds before coming ashore.

Squid has plenty of reaction time as well.

>it happened because of your lack of foresight.

You don't need foresight with the squid. Just basic timing. You barely have to acknowledge him.

>All that remains is getting the boat cannonball timing right.

Which is easier said than done when you're trying to avoid a constant barrage of crabs or a shark that puts you directly in front of the cannon. Forcing you to react to the animations as apposed to the actual cannon ball. It cuts your reaction time by more than half. To the extent that you have to anticipate it through the animation. The squid doesn't even come close to forcing you to do this.

>The seals are one of the easiest attacks in the game

Are you saying this game has attacks that are easy compared to others? Oh my.

>The squid is also just about jumping the cannonball and trying to avoid the ink blots

>trying to avoid the ink blots

Have you read my post? You don't have to. You will not go blind, they literally can not make you go blind unless you TRY and hit them. There's no penalty to them outside of diminished your peripheral zone slightly.

>you'd most likely be trying to make an effort to dodge them

I make 0 effort. It's no threat at all.

>Especially when you're going for a fast time you want to be jumping all the time with the Charge Shot in order to line up your shot against Willy.

Easier done than said. If you've played games such as rez the Charge shot timing is easy. I often wail on him when the squid comes around.

>and if you fail to it'll mess with you for the next attack.

I think you overestimate how long it takes to build a charge. If you're waiting with a fully charged shot for more than 3 seconds you've wasted your time.

>If you say so, but that's only a minority. But what about the rest?

The rest goes into what I've explained on other occasions with the Queen Bee's platforms and Mermaids easier patterns. Is it so hard to consider the fact that if half a dozen bosses show a serious flaw that a good sum of the rest also share it?

>Yes, their positioning tends to be random, but their order of appearance is usually static.

Well when their positioning can be in the direction opposite of you that's very RNG dependent if you ask me.

>Seems after all that what makes a mechanic good is how it's used, glad you agree.

<A lack of variety and interaction with a mechanic good

I think you misread my post. Parry goes nowhere outside of a few levels where they actually make it a mechanic that gives you more than an extremely basic risk/reward function that gets tired after the first world.

>I conform to your rules and this is the kind of shit you give me?

The discussion is in the post above where I clearly tell you why Steamboat willy is broken from RNG. How have I not delivered exactly what you asked?

>The only cases of outright poor implementations I've found were in Djinni, Beppi, and Baroness Bonbon, because their pink chances weren't static.

Unless you weren't talking about the RNG in general and more specifically the Pink RNG I would not consider random projectile direction NOT RNG. Especially if said placement can render the slap impossible.

>>13930299

>To which you already have the timing down for and could easily do blind regardless.

Easily? What kind of objective measure is that?

>Nigger I've hit more than 4 and don't get blinded. The fuck are you on about?

Maybe it's the case on Normal, but on Expert you'd be lying (which you said you were playing it on). On Expert colliding with three ink blots will cause the ink blinding effect to stack at its max. If you can't be bothered to test such a simple fact before making such claims, then kindly shut the fuck up.

>It's much less challenging than forcing you to jump on a constant basis because of the crabs or having your roam space cut by 3/4'ths. I'm not saying it's "do nothing and win" I'm saying it's objectively more easy than the other 2 sea creatures by a landslide.

You'd always be jumping at a constant basis in order to be even able to hit Willie with the Charge Shot, which is the primo strategy since it's tricky to keep him within a firing angle unless you go up close. Which is also why you are more likely to hit the ink blots than if you were to stand on the ground, but then you'd be wasting time by not damaging the boss. Same thing for the seals. You could be jumping up in order to shoot Willy, or duck and shoot all the seals before they get to you given that they die in one hit of almost anything, making them a non-issue as well.

>So can the squid.

With the shark it can be done so more reliably because there's more wind-up time before he's telegraphed, which is more useful when the barrel is winding up and can't be triggered yet. Here trying to trigger the barrel beforehand would objectively be hardest when facing the seals because they have the least wind-up.

>Which is easier said than done when you're trying to avoid a constant barrage of crabs

It really is when all it does is throw a random cannonball in the mix of the seals you have to jump over as opposed to the ever-increasing projectile speed of the first boss in the game where poor timing will cause you to get hit by another dustball the moment you land.

>or a shark that puts you directly in front of the cannon. Forcing you to react to the animations as apposed to the actual cannon ball. It cuts your reaction time by more than half. To the extent that you have to anticipate it through the animation.

But then all you're doing is getting the timing for the animation right. There's no real overlap of attacks involved here, it's strictly a matter of timing where you do not need to worry about other variables (save for the barrel if you didn't prematurely trigger it), as opposed to having to watch two or more things at once with the squid or seals.

>Are you saying this game has attacks that are easy compared to others? Oh my. When your entire point is that one attack is harder than the other and that it's a great example of poor difficulty balancing, this only being considered possibly true by such a small margin will at worst be seen as nitpicking and at most elicit a response identical to 'I guess?' from others considering most people on the internet would rather complain about the RNG platforms in Grim Matchstick/Queen Bee. Which makes it doubly baffling why this is the hill you decided to die on considering the only prospects of victory here are of a technical one. I'm telling you outright there are better examples of such poor balancing in the game.

>Easier done than said. If you've played games such as rez the Charge shot timing is easy. I often wail on him when the squid comes around.

Says who? You still have the barrel blocking your shot and cannonballs to contend with. It'd be safer to not jump at all and wait until he's done attacking before you attack.

>The rest goes into what I've explained on other occasions with the Queen Bee's platforms and Mermaids easier patterns. Is it so hard to consider the fact that if half a dozen bosses show a serious flaw that a good sum of the rest also share it?

Because of 3 out of 19+ bosses? Statisticians all over the world are laughing at you. Are you actively looking for reasons to not have to explain yourself? Moreover I don't believe Queen Bee's platforms are that impossible, most people forget they can duck and drop down platforms.

>I think you misread my post. Parry goes nowhere outside of a few levels where they actually make it a mechanic that gives you more than an extremely basic risk/reward function that gets tired after the first world.

So what makes a mechanic good is how it's used, then?

>Unless you weren't talking about the RNG in general and more specifically the Pink RNG I would not consider random projectile direction NOT RNG. Especially if said placement can render the slap impossible.

Do you have examples? Maybe it's not as impossible as you think.

>Bosses have their secondary phases already loaded in

>Hurtboxes and all

>You can technically kill them by shooting where you know they'll appear if your projectiles reach that far

>Monkey Claw subboss can be defeated by moving the camera and forcing it to despawn without hitting it once

>Whole screen is upscaled to hide the enormous assets hidden away

On the plus side, the way they use the scrolling background is almost verbatim how they used to do shit for the golden age Popeye cartoons so I don't think you can call them cheaters at that

>>13932023

also

>the flames in hell never really reach you so you can technically stand on the whole and keep peppering the boss

>>13932023

The third and fourth point have apparently been fixed by the latest update

>>13932023

huh, so that's why they didn't put hp bars for bosses

>>13903710

>>13903717

>>13903744

gtfo you stupid autistic fuckheads.

>>13941381

No

It's a platform game. I don't get this universal orgasm over it.

>being this deep in denial that cuckhead is rehashed crap

>here is our (((new))) Canadian game endorses by the prime minister

>(((new)))

>old shitty Jewish cartoons and boss patterns ripped straight from gradins and mega man

The thing that blows my mind is that you’re so goddamn autistic that you wrote a 1,000 word blogpost about why this overrated crap is the best game ever. Fucking sad.

>>13944533

>about why this overrated crap is the best game ever

what makes you assume this

>>13944553

You be hard pressed to find a negative review of the game let alone some under 4 out of 5 stars. Also have you read any of the threads here? Have you read your own posts? Are you retarded?

Saged for defending jewish hipster game

>>13934156

>tfw replied to all of this

>tfw 8chan crashed

End my life.

>The darkened edge effect has three stages for each ink drop you get hit by,

I'm guessI either miscounted or something then. Either way it doesn't fully engulf the screen barely hinders you.

>considering you can stand in the middle holding down the fire button doing fuck-all as the seals get shot and killed before they can even reach you.

Well yes but during that time you're not firing at the boss. Either way that's more thought and effort being put into the enemy than the squid.

>That would only leave the shark attack, where you allege that it's harder because you have to watch the visual timing instead of the traveling projectiles

My statement was that having your freedom to dodge hindered you more extremely than slightly blinding your peripherals and was much more taxing in terms of difficulty as a result. The visual timing you can't argue is an easier method of dodging than actually seeing the projectile and being able to jump over it.

>As it stands the window of opportunity for jumping in time in order to avoid the balls is rather lenient

I'm not saying it's the most impossible attack. I'm saying it's aces above difficulty when compared to the squid.

>What remains is the barrel which remains a constant danger throughout the fight regardless of what gets thrown at you

You said yourself that it's the layered attacks that make the game challenging, not the individual moves. Either way it's absolutely more of a threat with the shark if you don't trigger it early because you simply can't dodge it if you get poor timing as you're sandwiched in. Combine that with the cannonball and it's a good way to lose HP.

>If you google 'cuphead rng', most disgruntled commenters would rather point out Queen Bee or Grim Matchstick as examples of poor RNG rather than even begin to mention Willie, or mention that he's affected by 'a bit of RNG' at the very most.

You have to remember most "disgruntled commenters" are from reddit and don't know how to judge anything objectively. Even then they likely mention Queen Bee because she's objectively one of the more difficult bosses in the game. My points being brought up have never addressed Steamboat Willy as an objectively difficult boss in comparison to the other ones. In fact you could probably put him towards the end of the first island and nobody would mind. My point though is that he's an unbalanced fight which goes to your next point.

>You didn't even mention that he'll shoot guaranteed after each animal attack,

do I have to? Those attacks are separate from the sea summons. Even if those attacks were more demanding that doesn't devalue his other attacks. That's like trying to assert that Queen Bee's final phase is harder than the rest of the fight so everything building up to that segment isn't worth considering.

>You can't argue that the phase as a whole is woefully unbalanced and up to luck when every second attack Willie will be shooting at you with a 100% certainty

Why not?

>That's really overblowing things.

Considering I just got an A- on my second attempt because I only got 1 shark with 3 squids I'de have to disagree. The difficulty is absolutely noticeable and had I gotten 3 sharks I would likely still have a B- rating.

>So the potential does exist for even incredibly simple mechanics, but it's just underutilized. Glad you agree.

I never disagreed to that concept. The issue is it never goes anywhere. I stated before if Parry was kept in a few boss fights and wasn't considered in the final grades it would be a decent mechanic.

>He always shoots at your current position.

Fair enough then. In my defense I'm spamming charge shot at him while jumping constantly so they absolutely look random. I'de like to add though that there doesn't seem to be a consistent pattern with Yellow or Pinks. And if you're relying on a double slap you likely won't get it. If all the attacks were pink or every other round of 3 shots were pink I'de likely appreciate the concept a bit more to not hating it. As it is I just want to dodge the fuckers and move on, or have another gimmick that isn't forced and feels natural to the type of level I'm playing.

>>13944930

Why not both?

>>13944941

We don't talk about them.

>>13944930

>>13944941

>>13949299

Finnish basket crafting corporations are something that clings to your soul. It slowly corrupts you.

And shit don't stop at furry pedophiles: floor tiles, cock goblins, dog knees, backpacks, the geological accidents of the state of Ohio, etc. comes after that.

After that you ascend, becoming one with the site, you are no longer some virgin in 8chan; you are 8chan

That's when you start browsing /wap/ unironicly

Hey I just came in here to say that this thread is awesome.

I miss this kind of top level autism.

>>13952218

>For maximum damage output you would have to avoid shooting the squid entirely in favor of Willy

Not really no. You said yourself all it takes is a charge and a spreadshot to kill him pretty quick. Even if you were given squid every single summon it still wouldn't be enough to force anything less than a perfect score.

>whereas the squid is longer present at the midpoint of the pier than the shark is

Stand in front of the squid? Problem solved.

>whereas the squid is longer present at the midpoint of the pier than the shark is, on top of the squid impairing you with ink.

I don't know how many times I have to tell you that the ink's impairment isn't anything to worry about. Its impairment is psychological at most.

Also you essentially repeat your points with that second paragraph. The squid doesn't waste enough time to the extent that it would actually do anything to remove your gold time standard. It just wouldn't.

>If you want to argue that I'm wrong because I'm proposing a safe strategy which forgoes DPS by shooting the seals, then you shouldn't make the case that the Squid is the easiest when you're dealing with him in the most inefficient way possible.

The squid can't do damage man. Unless you run directly into him which I wouldn't argue as difficult in any way. I don't see how you're trying to argue that you even HAVE to make an efficient move with him. Either way as long as you're using that charge shot as efficiently as possible, even acknowledging the fact that the squid may hamper you by 2 seconds max, it's still not enough for that to equate to a more difficult run.

>so it's not impossible

I'de argue it is if the cannonball fills that remaining space. You might think that's incredibly rare but it's actually occured a few times. Either way you're basically saying that there's a fractionative gap where you can't take damage as apposed to an enemy where the only danger zone is the direct middle with plenty of room to spare. I can easily say that Shark trumps Squid as far as player placement difficulty goes.

>then the effect of the other half of the attacks on the difficulty can not be as pronounced on the current phase as a whole

I never established them as a whole. I established them as an unbalance. If you cut half of the attacks into 3 seperate levels of difficulty then assuming you were given the hardest level of difficulty then mathmaticly there would be an unbalance. 50% of the attacks are static lets assume while the remaining 50% can be split into 3. If every attack with the remaining other half is more difficult then by pure statistics you're given an extra 50% of the match on a harder difficulty.

>The pattern of the amount of bullets fired seems to be largely random, but predicting their type isn't all left up to chance

I can't think of a more contradictory statement. If there IS a pattern it's either much to convoluted to be reasonably sensible or far to useless to remember as long as you stick to pure frontal lobe play. Either way this entire mechanic seems way to agregious to be worth implementing in the first place in a game that primarily focuses on reaction time and skill over stratagem and memory. Those 2 components rarely mesh well together within the same mechanic. And I'm not willing to see an exception for Cuphead here.

>>13952332

I just call people faggots and move on with my day.

>>13955932

>You said yourself all it takes is a charge and a spreadshot to kill him pretty quick. Even if you were given squid every single summon it still wouldn't be enough to force anything less than a perfect score

You could kill the squid, but you'd have wasted one (and I bet in the newest update, two) charge shots you could have used on Willy instead. Killing the squid would also prompt Willy to fire his gun immediately after and cycle through attacks more often within the limited timespan of the current phase, making you face against his gun and shark/seals/more squids more often. You could then either stand to the left of the squid and just tank the ink while dealing no damage to Willy at all because you can't hit Willy because the squid is blocking your path, or stand to the right and pop off some charge shots at the expense of giving yourself less free space which makes the barrel more of a potential threat and has you jump over cannonballs directly from the ship's mouth, which is rather identical to a shark attack. You could also opt to play it safe by standing to the left, in the same way you could opt to play it safe by not dealing damage to Willy and shooting the seals instead.

>even acknowledging the fact that the squid may hamper you by 2 seconds max, it's still not enough for that to equate to a more difficult run

You said that shooting the seals instead of Willy is ultimately a waste of time since it'll cause him to cycle through his attacks more frequently and give you more shit to dodge, so why can't the same argument be made for the Squid (unless you decide to argue that there's no point to speedkilling)? Staying to the left side of the squid or killing it will only cause Willy to cycle through his attacks much earlier, whereas staying to the right side and popping off charges where the presence of the squid becomes identical to that of the shark will let you kill the boss faster and make it easier on yourself if you put yourself at more risk. It's no different from other games where any enemy can be ez if you take potshots at it but can be dispatched much faster by moving in aggressively. Of course the former is easy, if you want to feel the real thrill you should put yourself at risk as well. By standing in front of a squid.

>Either way you're basically saying that there's a fractionative gap where you can't take damage

Squid has the advantage of you being able to pull back when you feel shit is getting too hot (depending on the circumstances you could do the same for Shark, it's not like you'll be cornered by a cannonball about to be a fired and a barrel hanging on top of you at the moment when the Shark has fully extended all the time either). Performance-wise doing so would not be ideal if you end up holding in your charge longer than necessary in order to reposition yourself in front of the squid again to avoid hitting the squid instead after having dashed left to avoid a barrel or something. It's a strat where part of the ensuing difficulty is self-imposed, but still very much there. And part of why I found myself more often wishing for the shark, because then I'm given more time to deal with the barrel whereas for the Squid I find myself having to move to the front almost immediately.

>I can't think of a more contradictory statement. If there IS a pattern it's either much to convoluted to be reasonably sensible or far to useless to remember as long as you stick to pure frontal lobe play. Either way this entire mechanic seems way to agregious to be worth implementing in the first place in a game that primarily focuses on reaction time and skill over stratagem and memory.

All you need to know for this fight is that pinks always come after yellows. The total amount of bullets shot at you and the bullet pattern they come in is largely irrelevant when it comes to anticipating pinks, given the first rule where the bullet type pattern is always YPY-PP, PYP-YP, PYPY, YPP-PY, and the mirrored versions thereof, but not necessarily in that order. Again, you don't need to know the exact patterns, merely that yellows never come twice in a row. Most bosses work off the same principle where usually there's a pattern to how pinks may appear, but it's almost never fixed and the positioning of pinks is mostly random. Anticipation is only half the battle. It's part memo and part reflexes, like most of the game.

If it were full memo, it'd be like the beam in the previous WebM I posted where I jump before it fires so I can slap it repeatedly, which I manage because I know the timing through trial and error (with the barrel on top asking some improvisation on your part if he corners you).

>>13932023

Pretty cool video.

>>13932023

Ah, so that's why the Devil easy kill glitch was even there. The devs are sneaky bastards, I'll give them that.

>>13932026

I honestly don't know why they even did that. You'd think they'd have covered the whole screen instead of giving you leeway on the final boss.

>>13905629

Faggot the first two isles are easy

>people are still autistically arguing about a game on a Vietnamese gong-ringing board

>not posting porn of said game

>>13958809

>but you'd have wasted one (and I bet in the newest update, two) charge shots you could have used on Willy instead.

Even with the update I seriously doubt it. If you count how many charge shots it takes to kill him and add up the most squids you can possibly get (which would probably be around 4-6) then you only have 8 wasted charge shots. And on Expert before the update I'm guessing it's around 40-50 charge shots to kill him with much time left over. At worst you're wasting 6-7% of your time dealing with the squid. Which is dismissive when you consider that the shark can cluster you to a small space and force you to shoot at willy in said confined space WHILE dodging the cannonball and possibly barrel in the same small space and you can easily understand how the difficulty is still not comparable to the sharks.

>making you face against his gun and shark/seals/more squids more often.

Which gives you more pink pellets, which gives you faster super charge. So in a way the squid makes the fight end even sooner. In fact you probably make up for the time the squid cost by dps alone.

>if you want to feel the real thrill you should put yourself at risk as well. By standing in front of a squid.

It would still be easier than the shark because you have more overall room. The ink spots AGAIN aren't a threat and if you're going to say it's more difficult you should explain why.

>Squid has the advantage of you being able to pull back when you feel shit is getting too ho

You could pull forward to. Either way works really.

>if you end up holding in your charge longer than necessary in order to reposition yourself in front of the squid again to avoid hitting

Why would you do this? Again the repositioning you need to do in front of the squid is still easier because you have more room than the shark.

>because then I'm given more time to deal with the barrel whereas for the Squid I find myself having to move to the front almost immediately.

Then maybe you should stop hanging in the very back of the level. You shouldn't do that specifically because of the shark or anything regardless.

>All you need to know for this fight is that pinks always come after yellows

Which isn't much considering a yellow can still come after 1-3 pinks and the pattern is still inconsistent as a result. Again it doesn't matter in the end as I explained. It could have very easily been a simple 121 pattern or 1122 pattern that was reliable in the end and didn't variate enough for you to haggle more pinks at any given time.

>>13932023

>PROJECTILE ALIVE FOREVER

garbage garbage collection

>>13967925

Calamaria gave me some vibes alright.

>>13967925

The dude never went to calarts and learned on traditional pen on paper. I saw some seminar he gave at an animation college on /co/.

>>13969200

yes

>>13963487

>At worst you're wasting 6-7% of your time dealing with the squid

The issue is not here how much time is being wasted but that it can be wasted. When you're going for the best time you want to optimize everything, and that involves standing in front of the squid, which makes it no different than standing in the shark's safe spot, and that involves jumping the seals. See this speedrun at 28:38 for reference (it's Regular, but it's glitchless played on the current patch and should get the message across).

>So in a way the squid makes the fight end even sooner

The amount of super generated by the Charge Shot is steady enough for you to pull of a good amount of CS Super Attacks, and moreover the opportunities to use supers without sacrificing time to charge your CS is limited so there's no real point in wasting DPS on the Squid for extra pinks from the ensuing shooting attack (which in turn prevents you from using the CS super… safely) when you won't get enough opportunities to use that super to begin with.

>It would still be easier than the shark because you have more overall room

The space allotted is about equal. Maybe there's a bit less for the shark, but given that he immediately retracts after fully extending it balances out I'd say.

>You could pull forward to. Either way works really.

When I say to the front of the squid I mean to say on the right side of the pier. Or the screen.

>Which isn't much considering a yellow can still come after 1-3 pinks and the pattern is still inconsistent as a result. Again it doesn't matter in the end as I explained. It could have very easily been a simple 121 pattern or 1122 pattern that was reliable in the end and didn't variate enough for you to haggle more pinks at any given time.

Pinks always come after yellows and yellows will always come after one or two pinks. Two successive pinks shouldn't be a case of being fucked over since the bullets are shot at you fast enough that if you slap the first you always have enough momentum to slap the second. The pink logic here is similar to the fist attacks of the Frog Brothers where there's three possible combinations of what projectiles are pink, however those projectiles are much faster compared to what Willie shoots, so it makes sense to increase the amount of combinations in order to make the impact of randomly picked pink combinations actually noticeable.

Moreover, inconsistency is kind of the point here. If pinks were shot at a fixed trajectory and fixed interval each time, you'd only be doing the same shit each time and things would get too predictable as a result. However, there is still a consistent logic to the appearance of most pinks, but some factors are randomized in order to grease up your short-term thinking and reaction speed, meaning both anticipation and improvisation are involved. Just the former will get too predictable and just the latter will get too unpredictable.

Cuphead 3ds when? Would be cool to play on 3d.

>>13972155

>The issue is not here how much time is being wasted but that it can be wasted

When the final result doesn't matter it's not much of an issue is it? As long as you have that gold time there's no point in worries about time wasted.

>When you're going for the best time you want to optimize everything

In a pure speed focused battle, which is completely arbitrary and self dependent then maybe they squid might be longer. But you're also stretching this argument so thin that's it's barely worth mentioning as a serious critique of the game. Especially since it's already RNG dependent regardless.

>The amount of super generated by the Charge Shot is steady enough for you to pull of a good amount of CS Super Attacks,

But your initial point was that the squid brings you towards pink pellets faster. If that's the case you should at the very least get an extra super in there where you might not otherwise if you didn't get the squid.

>and moreover the opportunities to use supers without sacrificing time to charge your CS is limited

So now the CS is more powerful than the super? I don't get this logic. You said yourself it was nerfed.

>The space allotted is about equal.

I really don't see this. The shark at full attack cuts off more than 3/4th's the screen. The squid appears roughly in the center.

>and yellows will always come after one or two pinks

3 sometimes as well.

> If pinks were shot at a fixed trajectory and fixed interval each time, you'd only be doing the same shit each time and things would get too predictable as a result.

I disagree. It's already enough of a challenge (or it would be if the slap time wasn't so overforgiving) as it is.

>meaning both anticipation and improvisation are involved.

More anticipation than improvisation imo. It goes back to what I said before though. You can have quick reactions or you can have strategy. Meshing those 2 things together often meets in dismay. It's like solving a puzzle with an unheard of QTE. It just doesn't mesh well.

>>13972232

God no. 3D's a gimmick and would just hurt your eyes looking for all those projectiles coming at you.

>>13972438

>As long as you have that gold time there's no point in worries about time wasted

Why settle just for gold?

>In a pure speed focused battle, which is completely arbitrary and self dependent then maybe they squid might be longer. But you're also stretching this argument so thin that's it's barely worth mentioning as a serious critique of the game.

Given that the game grades you by and keeps track of your clear time, it wouldn't be a stretch to say the game is built around speedkilling/running. It may be an arbitrary goal, but so is going for an S-rank or anything on top of just survival.

Though that's no reason to examine all attacks from purely a survival-play standpoint because it doesn't factor in higher level-play and any such opinions of the former would largely not be of any use to the latter. For example, most people will just duck during the final phase of the Boat fight in order to avoid the beam, and most people think it's just an easy attack which is telegraphed almost too much but it really just a waste of your time. However, in the speedrun I linked you can see that you can also jump at the right moment in order to slap the beam repeatedly and shoot at the boss diagonally in the air, giving you the opportunity to damage the boss which would normally be impossible when ducking under the beam. If you really want to examine the difficulty of an attack, you should do so on multiple levels of play. A boss might be easy if you only counterattack during a particular vulnerability window, but then you're not taking the fight to the boss, on top of the game telling you that you suck by giving you a crappy grade.

>But your initial point was that the squid brings you towards pink pellets faster

I said that it causes the boss to cycle through his attacks faster. It may spawn more pinks, but usually it's not worth the loss in DPS by getting rid of the Squid and not having enough opportunities to use up all your super if you're going fast.

>So now the CS is more powerful than the super? I don't get this logic. You said yourself it was nerfed

I don't know if the nerf extends to the super shot of the CS. Moreover you can use the shot supers in order to deal more damage in the short term in order to get a boss to change phases more quickly, or save it up for a regular(?) Super attack like the whirlwind one to deal more damage in a concentrated burst, which also tends to be safer to use.

>I really don't see this. The shark at full attack cuts off more than 3/4th's the screen. The squid appears roughly in the center.

You want to stay to the right of the squid because the hitbox of the squid is large enough that if you shoot a CS right under the squid it'll get absorbed by the squid instead. That zone being near identical to the safe spot of the shark attack.

>You can have quick reactions or you can have strategy. Meshing those 2 things together often meets in dismay

I think you're thinking a bit too big here, given that we're talking about a run 'n gun. Game having anticipatable attacks arranged together with random elements isn't anything particularly new. As an example for what happened to me yesterday, I was ducking under the fire of a turret emplacement in Contra ST5 so I could kill it safely, only for a grunt to spawn from the left side of the screen and was planning to run into me. Which is not a fixed encounter. At that point you can either get up between the gaps of the turrets' shots in order to turn left or shoot the grunt, or hope to kill the turret quick enough so you have some space forwards to deal with the grunt. Which in a game where grunts always spawn from the edges of the screen isn't beyond expectation. In Cuphead it's the random arrangement of different elements/hazards which create such situations. You can learn what gets thrown at you, but getting out of particularly sticky situations isn't something you can bruteforce through memorization.

Cuphead.

>>13982032

>Why settle just for gold?

Because unless you're speed running that's all you need if you're going for full co0mpletion. Going past gold is something you do beyond that and is in such an exclusive and specific catagory that's it's not worth using as an argument when I'm talking about unbalanced difficulty.

>it wouldn't be a stretch to say the game is built around speedkilling/running.

It might be. But you're so far gone from the original argument now that it's not even worth bringing up. I already stated that you could probably kill the boss FASTER with the squid anyway because of more common pinks.

>If you really want to examine the difficulty of an attack, you should do so on multiple levels of play

Even all this considered when you look at the squid again he's still objectively a more easy situation even in the higher levels. I don't know why it's so hard for you to consider this. And even if it were HARDER than the rest at these levels then there's still an imbalance on the other side. You simply can't win here.

>It may spawn more pinks, but usually it's not worth the loss in DPS by getting rid of the Squid

An extra Super is probably worth 6 seconds of DPS I'de argue.

>You want to stay to the right of the squid because

Well already then there's more room as apposed to the shark. So I don't see how this makes him more difficult.

>but getting out of particularly sticky situations isn't something you can bruteforce through memorization.

I'm not saying it has to be. But you should be given that opportunity in a way that's not completely random.