/v/ - Video Games★

Repeating my question from the last thread

>>13830369

>>13830472

>▶Anonymous  11 minutes ago 2efd22 No.13830

This

Why don't we have an arabic thread?

>>13830492

If there are enough good games originally in Arabic, enough interest in them, and a concerted effort to censor their English localizations, which are all the reasons these threads were originally started.

>>13830472

>>13830492

Obvious bait

>>13830524

>I don't have a counterargument so I'll just call it bait!! Ahahaha!

But in respect to the quality of this thread, I'll stop responding.

>>13830486

I think it can work similarly to English in that respect but I still feel like I don't have the best grasp on punctuation in Japanese. Doesn't always feel as standardized as it is in English to me.

>>13830549

I heard that he recently became homeless so to make ends meet he frequently participates in bum fights. He's gotten pretty good at it so his nickname now is bumnumba1.

>>13831126

>couldn't have done it without this app

Yeah you could have.

>>13831126

With the kanji grid add-on for Anki you can see how many kanji you have on the front side of your cards and sort them in various ways such as JLPT, frequency, and a few others.

The kana invaders game is translating を as "wo" instead of how it is used popularly, is it safe to assume that the modern form is the one I'll see the most in games?

>>13831126

I have it. I like it for occasional practice and review when at work, but prefer other study materials most of the time. If you need a mobile resource it has a lot of shit and tracks time so you can see your effort that way. I think the quizzing systems aren't the best though. With the multiple choice ones you can guess or just eliminate ones you do know, and the writing ones are a bit rigid in how you have to write them so if a stroke isn't almost exactly where it wants you to put it that's counted as an error. You can get everything it does for free elsewhere but it's certainly not a terrible app.

>>13831314

It's often romanized that way just to differentiate from お.

>>13831126

I like obenkyo better.

>>13831409

Gotta pay those electricity bills that power her super intelligent AI.

>B-さん、食べたいって思う

B san wants to eat pizza, I think - This is wrong

How to express this? Talking to a nipp and "たがっている" is apparently only used for small children that yet cannot express their own wishes, to use on an adult would be considered very strange.

I get that different languages have different ways of expressing things but surely, "she wants to do X… I think" can be expressed?

>>13831430

外人

Only one you ever need :^)

>>13831409

At least she's honest.

I have 13 days (including today and today and it is already late afternoon) until my N3 exam. I have ~300 more kanji to learn and all the grammar. How fucked am I? And I do have to go out to do other shit. And watch my daily anime.

>>13831518

N3 is pretty basic isn't it?

>>13830422 (OP)

>>13831363

AI-chan is the worst thing to come out of Japan since the loss of the Yamato.

>>13831528

Everything until N2 (or if you want to be a dick even N1) could be considered basic.

But N3 still requires over 600 kanji and I know only half of the them, probably don't know most of the N3 vocabulary and none of the grammar.

N4 was going to probably be easy with some more work, so I decided to push myself for N3. But I haven't studied properly at all. Especially the last few weeks, because I randomly became super busy with some bullshit stuff.

>>13831540

You might be fucked then. Or you could get lucky, who knows?

I was gonna take the N1 this year myself, but I decided to postpone until next year to avoid the very situation you're in.

>>13831547

I could have been doing N2 if I wasn't a lazy ass during the summer. I am thinking of next forcing myself to go for N1 next year. Learning the N2 stuff until the end of February, hopefully, and then learning 4-5 or more during the summer kanji every day to get ready for N1.

I know I am trying to force it through, but I really want to get into the rhythm of learning and get over with it already.

>>13831561

If you're not ready for N3 this year I don't think you'll be ready for N1 next year. Don't try to rush, that is the biggest mistake people make when learning Japanese.

>>13831568

It doesn't matter if I truly pass the exam. I want to use it as a motivator, though it would be nice to get N1 in the nearest future, so I can say I have it. The important thing is to learn and I want to use the exams as time limiters to motivate me achieve that. And I am not quitting no matter what anyway. It is definitely not impossible time-wise (at least for next year, it is super tight right now), especially with how much free time I usually have. It is only a matter of not being a lazy ass bitch.

>>13831600

What you should do is get into the habit of studying every single day, even if it's only for like 10 or 20 minutes. You won't even need much motivation then, since you'll just do it naturally.

>>13831600

Instead of posting on here, fuck off and study you cunt.

I've found that Japanese the Manga way is by far the best self-study book I've found on the market for grammar. I tried half a dozen of them and none clicked as much as this one. Unfortunately, it covers the N5 - N4 stuff at best and I need something higher level. Is there anything with a similar style / pacing?

>>13831742

Once you get to a certain level you stop using textbooks to learn anyway, and just learn through practice.

>>13831746

Sure, but until then…

>>13832169

She's a ポンコツＡＩ

>>13830422 (OP)

>OP has AI chan

Cancer general then?

>>13832480

>use the language and talk with people

Dunno about you, but I only learned it to play games. Why would you want to talk to Japs?

>>13832625

I don't even communicate with people in English.

>>13832752

You're doing so right now.

What is the fucking point of んだす, I don't understand why it exists. Is it strictly just a "tone of voice" thing?

>>13832766

>he still communicates with them

>>13831430

Learn Japanese yourself you lazy fag.

>>13832480

I was going to disagree with you, but then I looked into it (I've never looked into the JLPT before because I don't care), and found out that even N1 and N2 levels don't have any conversational or compositional activities, which is really strange for a Language Proficiency test.

>>13833077

Friendly reminder that all of us here are plebs that will never experience futaba chan.

Anki with the core2k/6k deck is great, I really do feel like I am making (slow) progress. However, I also feel like it's not enough. It's been almost a year and I only recently learned the world for purple. What the fuck. The point is this; I need some supplemental vocabulary study. I will continue to use Anki, but I need a book or something that will help me build my vocabulary in a more traditional way. For example, it'd be nice to have a book or resource that organizes words in numerous different ways, like grade level, complexity of Kanji, by concept, alphabetically, by homophones, etc. Something like KanjiDamage, but for vocabulary.

Anyone got anything like that? I mean, I suppose I could just come up with a huge list of words I want to know, use Jisho to look them up, and create my own Anki deck, but a resource that provides this as a lesson or exercise could be more engaging.

>>13833097

Just play games, you'll learn plenty of vocab that way.

Speaking of which, I uploaded the Japanese version of Shadow Hearts if anyone wants it. I couldn't find a download anywhere so I ended up importing it.

https://mega.nz/#!G4QF2LDD!0_QHvJVRv2oDf1wmjaV_C69XZiby3ft5YAPhCILkUuc

>>13833139

How do I run this virus?

>>13830810

>there are people that will probably believe this

>>13831314

There are a lot of Japanese people who still pronounce it wo sometimes or all the time, so it's better to know when it's a underlying を as opposed to お so you aren't caught off guard.

>>13833500

Are you talking about unity-chan, or the corporation?

>>13833801

I'm talking about that poster. Are you ok, anon?

Please don't embed YT e-celeb cancer, thanks.

I officially passed 600 kanji. Doing grammar in parallel so I'm happy with my progress.

>>13834129

How long it took, anon?

>>13833722

>>13831358

That's nice to know then, I never knew about that when I just memorized the kana from another resource.

>>13834262

I've started in June.

>>13834139

Thank you~

>>13834409

There goes not getting depressed today. Well, whatever.

>>13834607

Whoops, ignore the extra shimasu there

>>13834531

The fuck would you be depressed about? No one learns at the same pace, and I've been putting at least 2 hours every single day since June, sometimes much more than that. Keep going faggot.

>>13831418

Bさんはピザがほしいです。

>>13834018

are you talking about the person who made the post, or the poster I attached?

>>13834659

I have a feeling putting in even more wouldn't help anything (my Anki review times are already around 1 hour). Other than maybe burning out faster.

>>13834890

Well then just keep at it, and use something more than Anki, Anki alone isn't enough.

幽遊白書OPは美しい曲だね

>>13834965

Yeah but when I try to read anything it's like I don't know 9 out of 10 words and just start looking it up in a dictionary. And this way you can read a line of text in like an hour, before you tableflip and… so, that's how I usually roll.

Tbh it's almost two years since I tried to read anything seriously. Maybe I should try it again, hopefully in December I'll actually have time to do anything.

Firefox Quantum killed Rikaisama. What do?!

>>13835022

https://cyberfox.8pecxstudios.com/

Although, next year this browser will likely be discontinued, so maybe you should try and find something else anyway.

>>13835032

Another browser? I'll see. Only one of my computers ended up "updating" to Quantum. Surprised no one here's freaking out. The other place is panicking a little. Unless you've been using something similar to Rikaisama.

>>13835060

Why would you outupdate anyway?

I am using a "cleaner" version of Firefox 50.

>>13835254

Everybody does have different duck sizes, you have to learn to clean the tapir using only your tongue.

>>13835142

Hand to God, I had no idea Quantum even existed until I closed Firefox for reasons I can't remember. I open it right away, tells me its updating, and then the horror appears. That same night, commercials for Firefox aired. Had I waited just a few more hours…

>>13836409

sometimes characters just have irregular readings in certain words. A more common and extreme example would be 今日 - きょう, one syllable being represented by two characters, neither of which ever have that syllable as a reading, nor does either have the readings きょ or う separately.

Based on what I've seen, Jisho's readings section lists only readings that could be considered regular, because they are common and/or are still productive in forming new words, and leaves special cases like this in the 'reading compounds' section.

>>13835010

>Yeah but when I try to read anything it's like I don't know 9 out of 10 words and just start looking it up in a dictionary.

That's how it's going to be when you start reading. Persevere.

>>13836290

You kinda just learn them naturally by reading.

>>13836409

Don't learn the readings. The only thing important there is meaning and stroke order.

>>13835010

You should definitely be reading after having been learning the language for that long. If something you pick up is much too difficult, then pick something else and come back to that later. No matter what you pick though it will most likely be an uphill battle initially and you just have to keep at it. When you're reading and encounter some difficult sentences full of words you don't know, where it's going to take a while just for a that little text, feel free to just skip over those sentences. As a beginning reader you don't necessarily always want to focus on picking up every single unknown word you come across, but sometimes just on keeping on reading. Look up frequently recurring words, words important to the plot or game objective, and anything else you feel like while going off of context when you want to or outright ignoring certain parts. Getting more exposure to those words that recur often will do good for your general reading ability. It will also help keep motivation up by not getting frustrated with spending a bunch of time on those difficult passages. Go ahead and do reading where you strive for 100% comprehension too, but some casual reading like this that's more focused on simple enjoyment and extra exposure can be great. Getting some practice at trying to understand through context without knowing all the words used doesn't hurt either.

>>13836409

Sometimes similarly to how they added Japanese readings (訓読み) to single characters, they did so for multiple characters together, using the meaning of the kanji but the existing native Japanese word. You'll just have to memorize them as being unique. There are some other cases where a non-standard reading is used for kanji as well. The general way that on and kunyomi usually work is that words consisting only of multiple kanji use onyomi, words composed with both kanji and hiragana (called okurigana in that case) use kunyomi. Single characters can go either way a lot of the time. There are obviously exceptions as you've noticed. As mentioned it's generally better to get a feel for readings through learning vocabulary.

>>13836409

>What gives? None of those kana are listed as a kunyomi reading of 木. What am I missing here?

As everyone else said, don't learn the readings individually, but if you want to make sense of it, sometimes compound works breaks the pronunciation. In 「木綿」 case, you see that the first 「む」 belongs to the 「モク」 reading.

>>13834294

What makes it worse, the nipp im practicing with is from kyuushu and they don't even fucking use it there.

>>13834684

It was more with the idea of "X has not said so but I think they want to do Y"

>Mary has picked up a tennis racket

>I think she wants to play tennis

Genki teaches がっている but that's apparently reserved for kids only.

>>13836290

I learned kana via the realkana site, I wish there was something similar for conjugations

>>13836609

Yeah, i've got that memorized but I'd also like to drill it somehow, something like a typing game or something, but nothing seems to exist outside of kana games.

>>13836648

Really the only way you are going to drill grammar is to start reading. Anki and games only work for small things like vocab and kana/kanji.

>>13836496

Well, I've decided I'll reach 3000 words by the end of the year, provided I don't burn out. That would mean about 5 new words per day.

>must

なければいけません - Written polite

なければいけない - Written casual

なきゃいけません - Spoken polite

なきゃいけない - Spoken casual

>had to

なければいけませんでした - Written polite

なければいけなかった - Written casual

なきゃいけませんでした - Spoken polite

なきゃいけなかった- Spoken casual

Must can also be なきゃ、なくちゃ、ないと in casual speech right?

>食べなきゃ

What about had to, is there a shorter version or is なきゃかった the shortest version?

genki is fucking trash, the examples are poor and it half asses lots of shit

Has any anons here passed N2 or even N1? If yes, how long have they studied to pass these levels?

>>13837122

>What about had to, is there a shorter version or is なきゃかった the shortest version?

You mean -なきゃいけなかった.

Theoretically there's -なかったと, but I've only heard it like in anime twice.

Decent JPSN sale for people who want more Japanese games

https://store.playstation.com/ja-jp/grid/PN.CH.JP-PN.CH.MIXED.JP-CATEGORY00001798/1

I recommend Natsuiro High School and Amagami.

>>13837441

Yeah shit, that's the one.

>>13836427

>>13836451

>>13836453

>>13836496

>>13836553

Thanks for the explanations, it looks like there's a consensus on using the anki decks, so I'll do that.

>>13838936

I know College Board is better at designing their tests because I took the SAT Spanish subject tests and AP Spanish Test in high school.

You can take the SAT Japanese subject test as an adult, but the problems are that there is only one level, which is based on high school level courses (albeit the highest level high school courses, but still), and that I don't think College Board has the same presence in Japan that it does in America.

I don't really know of any other alternatives, though. If you could take the AP Japanese test as an adult I would say to do that, but you can't. S

That's it short of going to a college and getting a degree or certificate in Japanese.

バンプ～

>>13844369

Stop posting this cancer. It's pewdiepie with an anime face.

>>13844388

That's an insult to pewdiepie

>>13844388

Nice dubs, but I'm afraid that's not entirely true. Pewdiepie calls people "fucking nigger[s]" whereas anime shill girl only says "fuck you" and even so, only because she is a Nip. (Nips are bird-like folk who enjoy mimicry more than most other races and she was simply mimicking what she heard in the game.)

So I think although you're not totally off-base, to say the only difference is the anime face is quite wrong. Clearly she is also significantly more corporate and Japanese.

Started playing MGS3 in Japanese. I heard Kojima preferred the English versions (dunno if that's true or not), but so far the Japanese voice acting is way better.

>>13844987

the metal gear games are some of the few that I think the english voice acting is largely on point for. I still want to go back and play all my favorite japanese games in japanese, once my skill has improved a bit. Also, I couldn't find a source on Kojima preferring the english versions.

>>13847758

The kike meme was that the Japanese liked it because Hayter did the main role in a Guyver movie adaptation.

>>13847758

Not saying the English version is bad, but it does lack emotion in comparison.

Interesting, the Japanese version of Animal Crossing also has the Thanksgiving holiday today.

>>13849369

I fucking hate Japan.

I'm really struggling here. Is there ANY anon in here who learned moonrunes through sheer grinding using these sources? I need some motivation guys. Some success stories.

>>13853036

I used the kanji damage deck and learned them that way to a degree. It helped a lot being able to recognize at least what Kanji they were and at least one reading. I was able to go from being not able to read shit without stopping every couple of words to be able to get through whole chapters of manga with a little bit of guessing here and there (but knowing what the kanji means lets you guess more effectively).

>>13853036

Sheer grinding will only get you so far before you start to burn out, you have to start reading even when it's as boring as grinding vocab. I wouldn't say I've definitively learned Japanese yet but I play games and read native material with some (varying levels of) difficulty quite regularly. Keep pushing.

>>13853036

1. grind your deck

2. consume Japanese media in the native language

3. practice speech by speaking out loud, look up new words, read simple sentences and use them as the basis for creating new sentences, and make sure you understand how the underlying grammar operates.

4. (optional, but some would say this is highly recommended) also consider getting a native speaker who is interested in learning your native language with whom you can practice speech and do exercises together (i.e. check each other's work, correct each other's mistakes, suck each other's genitals when you're feeling down and/or trade lewd pics, etc)

5. do this for a long time, until you gradually build up the ability to quickly recognize words and phrases, and eventually you will get to a point where everything just solidifies and you'll feel like it all just "clicks"

6. ???

7. profit

>>13853036

I can understand more Japanese than I could a month ago, and more than I could two months ago, and…you get the point. What exactly do you want to hear anon?

How long have you been studying? Language takes a long time to learn, but if you put in the work you can make progress. Learn vocab/grammar/kanji, consume media you enjoy, and do it everyday.

>>13853036

-It's a marathon not a sprint

-Suck it up buttercup, even though it's a marathon, there will be people learning faster there are also people who are learning slower than you and literally thousands who've given up, you're currently ahead of them

-If you're struggling with anki, stop adding new words and compile a list of words that you're getting wrong and actually examine them i had a constant 100 words that I would always slightly mess up so I would reset them, seeing them literally everyday was depressing until I dealt with it

-Still on anki - You have 24 hours a day to do you reps. You don't need to do them in one sitting

-Repetition is key, start your grammar study by going over what you read yesterday and frequently start from the beginning to make everything fresh in your mind

-Set fucking realistic goals - No really. Typically for me, Goal 1 - Do anki - This does not include studying X amount of new cards.

No one is saying that every free moment you have must be dedicated to japanese. In your free time do half and half, study, read, cook, wank, vidya, whatever it is you want to do, do it, just make sure that you try and study for as long as you do other shit. An app I use is jiffy, you can use it to track how long you've been doing a certain activity.

>>13854214

>Say if I had 200 cards a day and I couldn't finish them all, only 100, it would be ok?

Not really. How long do your daily reps take?

>>13854214

If you do 5 cards a minute, that should take you 40 minutes, you have 24 hours to find those 40 minutes anon.

>you don't need to do them in the one sitting

By that I mean if anki is really burning you out, do a strict 10 minutes anki every hour until you get your reps done, the minimum studying you should do a day is to COMPLETE that days reps - not talking about new cards.

There's plenty of apps, but I just use it to keep track of how long i've been studying, it helps git rid of the feeling "i''ve not been doing much" when I can see the hours i've clocked in.

>>13854239

Around 100 daily, but they piled up to 300 in the last week. See >>13832544

>>13854261

I do try to be intermittent about it, usually in the bathroom or otherwise.

>>13832625

>No reason to be hostile.

It's banter, anon, don't be a faggot you've been here for some time anyway, I remember you from some threads back. In any case, there are some uncommon kanji in castlevania that I usually have to look around. Dunno who you speak with in those bars, but to brink often the kanji for castle and shit like that sounds weird.

>>13854269

Oh, you're still under an hour, which should be manageable.

Keep in mind that if you do them every day, then your daily reviews will obviously be shorter. If you miss days or don't do all your reviews, then you'll get them piled up like that, which is quick way of killing your motivation.

>>13854157

>stop adding new words and compile a list of words that you're getting wrong and actually examine them

Any suggestions on this? I have quite a few words I fail again and again and again and… (heck, even some radicals, but I added them 2 years ago and certainly didn't add any new since then)

>>13854597

Are you… Studying individual kanji? Also, just put new cards to 0, so you get to study old ones without worrying about new ones for a while.

>>13854761

I have an extra deck with the meaning (and stroke order) of each kanji.

I've tried setting new cards to 0 for something like a month, it didn't really help. The count of daily reps decreased (mostly because I didn't have new cards), otherwise not much. It didn't help with the problem of old cards at all.

>>13854994

Concentrate in those cards you are having problems with, look for way to memorize them specifically, having a low rep count helps with concentration.

For people who don't even know Hiragana yet, Hiragana battle: Learn Japanese to survive should be, very least, worth pirating. It's generic RPG-maker game but it can help you fool your brain to memorizing moonrunes.

https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/13598717/Learn_Japanese_To_Survive__Hiragana_Battle

hello,

i speak jap on okayish level

what now

i have nouryoku proficiency test passed too

>>13855359

Congratulations, you can now become an underpaid high school english teacher and enjoy getting shit on by insufferable japlets for being a baka gaijin.

>>13854597

Ask yourself "Why this specific card do I keep failing?"

>similar kanji

Look for a trick, ie I had 住む and 生むconfused for a long time until I examined them. 住む has a stick and since its also an s, I remembered that. After a while I forgot to look for the stick as it finally set in.

>I can't remember pronunciations

Specifically these fuckers gave me a problem 訪れると訪ねる, at that point I realised that visual aid alone wasn't enough so I started to verbally say the words, like spend a day just randomly saying them over and over. Verbal repetition is important

>words has difficult long meanings

Typically these are verbs, I personally found looking at examples on jisho and seeing the various examples had a good effect, also it tended to give better meaningsI'm looking at you 材料,"material, factor, fuck you, your are ingredients ー also remember you can edit the cards to change the meaning or add better ones

>>13856721

>住む has a stick

That is the 人 radical. 人+主 would be a better way of remembering it.

>>13859860

>Who's fucking idea was that

As it was explained to me, ancient Japs who were trying to trade with China.

>>13859882

Is it correct to say that the on-yomi is the meanings from China while the kun-yomi is the meaning the japanese gave it?

>>13859910

Somewhat yes, but also no. As for meaning many kanji do have the same meaning in both Japanese and Chinese, but the reading is different so you are fucked anyway. And now with simplified Chinese how the Chinese letters' writing has also changed.

So don't think it would be easy to learn Japanese or Chinese if you know the other. If anything it is going to confuse the shit out of you that much more.

>>13859956

I've heard it is a lot easier for japs to learn Chinese and vice versa, but for us whose first language is European, the only benefit you'll have is that you'll be good at memorizing Chinese characters.

>>13859910

Switch "meaning" with "reading" and it's closer to the truth, since the on-yomi sounds are based on the chineses sounds. They're not exactly the same though

>>13861869

I've read that before, China sucks but it isn't the only country where you can use Chinese (Singapore is great). I've also only really been learning the writing system outside of basic phonetics since it's incredibly easy if you already know Japanese. This is more for fun than it is for business.

>>13859860

Nobody's "idea".

When the Japanese made contact with the han Chinese, they had no writing system whatsoever. They borrowed the Chinese writing system as a set of logographs, applying them to the original Japanese words. Then, as ties with the Chinese increased, Chinese Chinese words were borrowed into Japanese both by pronunciation and characters.

After both underwent a couple thousand years of sound changes, which will change certain sound into different sounds but only in some environments, the first set output the On'yomi and the second output the kun'yomi.

How the hell would you “There are human bones at the side of the river”? Or something to that effect?

人骨が川のよこにあります？

川のよこで人骨があります？

Help a retard out

>>13864475

骨巛

>>13864475

second one, but with に　instead of で seems more correct to me. Pretty sure yoko 横　is the wrong word in this context. I think gawa　側 is more appropriate but i'm not certain.

>>13864475

Still relatively new but genki says when describing where something is, the location is typically at the start of the sentence, so;

川岸に人骨にありますか

>>13864586

に is correct for locations

>>13856855

Yeah, it's a radical, I have internalized as walking stick, i don't know if it actually has a proper name, that's just how I see it.

>>13864475

で is used to describe where an action is taking place. I doubt that あります counts as an action word.

>>13864475

As said, you wouldn't use で in that second one but に（は） as you're indicating the location where something is, not where something takes place. そば would be better than 横. There's other ways to say riverside as well of course, like 川辺.

>>13865893

>川岸に人骨にありますか

人骨が

>>13865898

It's correct name is "person radical (component form)", because it is a component variant of 人.

>>13865922

According to genki, ある phrases use に for location unless they are describing a future action and have already used に for time, I which case they use で.

>>13869442

I don't think so, I just answer and ask questions when I can, and play vidya, most people don't get kooky delusions about themselves

>>13872790

ここに目上の人がありません、アノンたん。

>>13830561

It's not like you didn't read >>13830520 , nigger.

Get out of here with your stupid games.

>>13864586

>>13865893

>>13865922

>>13865933

Ah, thanks anons. Let me try it then.

川のそばに人骨があります

Or alternatively, 川岸 in place of 川のそば

>>13873009

Why are you responding to a troll you retard.

>>13873232

wat. I wasn't even talking about you. Take your meds.

>>13873232

You're demanding that people refer to you as their superior on an anonymous imageboard because you think you speak a language better than everyone else who's ever been I the thread, you egomaniacal faggot.

>>13878049

They just learn to from kids. It is not a problem for me either, because I have consumed a lot of Japanese media (anime) before starting to study. It is just a question of being able to recognise the different words very easily. Or it sounds like any any other language. When you don't recognise the individual words as such, you can never be sure where one of them starts and the other ends.

While not true, foreigners are being taught Japanese has no pitch accents and in some ways it is better to just work with that premise.

>>13878086

to recognise the different words on hearing them*

>>13878086

That's not the problem. A single kanji can have several pronunciations. I know pronunciations have a lot to do with context, but shit, it's still pretty terrible, specially compared to other languages. You can say a word on english and it usually will sound the same, japanese is another deal. Although separating words is easy once you understand how the markers work.

>>13872901

Where? Also, you can't seem to take the banter, anon.

>彼は毎日私を会いに来てくれます

Why is it を, I'm pretty sure that is should be に in this case?

The biggest virgin thread on the entire site. Second only to GG general.

>>13878049

>How am I supposed to know what sound a Kanji makes and where a word stops and where another word begins.

Practice. You will eventually start to just "know" the right reading.

fucking flag

>>13878404

As to be expected from people who come here solely to advance the causes of the (((Western gaming industry.)))

>>13878143

It is called reading, but whatever.

While learning kanji by themselves is okay, you should also learn one or two combinations with them to start with. It will help you a lot to remember them too, because you are learning them in actual words.

And while in words the kanji tend to somewhat hold to their individual meaning. There is often some sort of stupid logic to it.

>>13863503

wiss such dishonor to imouto, seppuku is onry sorution

>>13878461

So you basically have to memorize every word/kanji combination

fucking nice

>>13878594

In the same way you have to memorize every word in English

>>13878631

not really, I can read an English word that I don't know just fine.

I know where it begins and where it ends.

So for example I know the difference between cuckold and cuck old.

I see in my Chinese cartoons that Japs don't know how to read Names. I mean what the hell.

>>13878703

>行

That's the thing it won't be just 行.

It will be 行く or 行員or 行状.

It is not like reading it without knowing what it means does you much good. You are learn both the word as a vocabulary and then you remember that this kanji has that reading, which will just mostly help you to learn new words, not as much to read something you have never heard before and understand it, though it is possible.

>>13878669

>not really, I can read an English word that I don't know just fine.

>I know where it begins and where it ends.

Once you get the hang of Japanese you can do this too. It's surprisingly easy, considering no spacing.

>I see in my Chinese cartoons that Japs don't know how to read Names. I mean what the hell.

You occasionally get hippies that come up with unique or unusual readings for kanji, or do ateji because they can. Then of course if it's a Chinese name, all bets are off.

>>13878703

>On english when you want to say fire, you say fire, there's no other word to describe fire, at least not common ones.

Flame and blaze come to mind off the top of my head. Or did you mean fire as in shooting a gun? Or perhaps as in permanently removing someone from a workplace?

>>13878731

Even「行き」can be either「ゆき」or「いき」

As I said, I already know what you are saying since I grind Anki each day and you're right, it slowly makes sense, but this is one of those things that don't. It's also particularly hard when using verbs like「行く」with different times or negatives like「行った」. Again, I know those things can be overcome with practice, but it doesn't make it any less retarded.

>>13878742

I was going to say you got me, but here is the thing, fire is always the constant, what you need to memorize is different meanings. With the western written system, when you see those 4 letters forming fire you know a lot already, particularly the way you say it, same with blaze and flame. Whereas with Japanese specifically you usually will say things wrong because of the many ways you can say a single symbol. AFAIK, this isn't a problem in Chinese.

>>13878802

>With the western written system, when you see those 4 letters forming fire you know a lot already, particularly the way you say it, same with blaze and flame.

In those cases, true. Now, how about the word "read"?

>>13878802

Well don't just grind Anki. Read Japanese. Try reading through the Minna no Nihongo books.

>>13878827

Anon, the reason english is one of the easier languages to learn but moderately hard to master is because the language is flexible and it has a lot of arbitrary rules, particularly in the pronunciation. Someone can easily learn to read and write on english, but it might be a bit harder to speak it. And this is particular to english and maybe something like French because they are fags, but some other languages that comes from latin are much more strict with pronunciation as in they have more rules for how to say things. Sure, there will always be that word that may break the rule, but it's an exception more than a rule, and the same applies to "read".

Now, with japanese, take all those fucking arbitrary rules that came from the lack of planning and plain retardation, add enough exceptions to make them rules, and you have a fucking mess of a language. I do like the language because it has it's own logic, but no shit it feels like Japanese people often thinks backwards, because their fucking language is a mess, and that's not necessarily bad, but the point of this rant is, Japanese is really fucking hard for reasons even themselves find hard to explain. I don't particularly like Latin based languages, but the system is far more competent than japanese, and I'm not even blaming the symbols, in the long run the symbols is actually the easy part, specially when Chinese is a lot easier to learn for this very same reason.

>>13878845

I doubt leaving Anki now will do any good, but I'm already reading Tae Kim that everyone seems to forget even though it has to be the best fucking text book in the OP, and I'm at the point I can read games and understand them. The problem is the "read". I can recognize the kanji, but I just don't bother with the reading itself anymore, even though I know I should.

>>13878871

>Someone can easily learn to read and write on english, but it might be a bit harder to speak it

At the most basic level sure? Still takes a ton of work to get through accuracy, and shit like using "the" and "a"

>it's an exception more than a rule, and the same applies to "read".

Here, have a short list of other words that do the same thing: http://www.english-for-students.com/Heteronyms.html

The fact is, many letters have multiple pronunciations even by themselves, to say nothing of when combined with other letters, which is what enables a ton of the prior. Which is the correct one for any given word? You just have to memorize it.

>>13878871

>doubt leaving Anki now will do any good

I didn't say leaving it. I said to also read proper text. Minna no Nihongo is a great student book for that. Way superior to the shitty Genki series.

Though I guess if you can read games (not just menus) maybe it is already above you. But it is full of everyday situations. Instead you could just start reading manga or something.

>>13878896

>Still takes a ton of work to get through accuracy

Which is why I mentioned it is moderately easy to learn but hard to master, particularly when it comes to the spoken part, since writing and reading are really fucking easy.

>many letters have multiple pronunciations even by themselves

And that's one of the most annoying parts of english, if the only one, since everything else is more or less constant. In spanish, for example, that's fixed with apostrophes. Papa is potato and Papá is dad, and that little piece of shit slash is what makes all the difference both in meaning and pronunciation. It's harder at first, but makes both the reading and pronunciation easier once you get a hold of it. The list of heteronyms is indeed short, and there's not a lot to memorize. The problem is not that english doesn't do it, it does which I apologize because I said it didn't, the problem is that english does it in a really less measure without counting slang. I bet that if Japanese had a list like that, shit would be endless, particularly for things like「優しい」and「易しい」.

Oh well, with practice you can get over it, but you can say the same about almost every thing that requires skill.

>>13878703

>If somewhere there's written「行」in a phrase, how can you tell it apart?

If it's part of a noun it will usually be こう, or sometimes ぎょう. As a verb it's usually just いく or おこなう. Of course you also have some weird cases like 行方, but you learn all of that through practice. It's not as hard as you think.

>>13878921

>The list of heteronyms is indeed short

It's also not exhaustive by any means - the "read" I already mentioned isn't on there, nor is "graduate." English has quite a lot of these.

>The problem is not that english doesn't do it, it does which I apologize because I said it didn't,

I just want to applaud you for this, too many people are afraid to admit when they misspeak or fuck up.

>the problem is that english does it in a really less measure without counting slang. I bet that if Japanese had a list like that, shit would be endless, particularly for things like「優しい」and「易しい」.

Which itself is right away a great example of how kanji can let you know immediately which definition of the word is meant.

>Oh well, with practice you can get over it, but you can say the same about almost every thing that requires skill.

Pretty much, it's the same with Japanese after all.

>mfw the way korean works is a lot more simple than I thought

Jesus. When I started learning japanese I also thought radicals could be an indication of pronunciation, but it isn't like that, but fucking koreans did exactly that. Once I'm finished with this hell I'll jump at Korean and Chinese at the same time.

>>13878920

I do try to do all those things and also listen to chinese cartoons pronunciation and the such, everything is good as long as I can get a good grasp, by I can't say I can read the things I do out loud, because I know the meaning, and when I don't I can easily guess, for example「玉座部屋」is fucking Throne Room even though I didn't know at the time, but it was as easy enough.

>>13878972

>English has quite a lot of these

But honestly, that isn't a problem when you write or read, that's the main difference.

>Which itself is right away a great example of how kanji can let you know immediately which definition of the word is meant.

The problem with that is that without kanji you'd be at lost. Sure,「優しい」and「易しい」are fairly similar even in meaning, but it comes down to what anon mentioned with names, you need someone to spell it out for you, because otherwise you could fuck up. It's not constant at all, and a language that lack constants is pretty shitty.

>it's the same with Japanese after all.

My point with that comment is how trivial it is to say you can do it with practice. I could also suck my own dick with enough practice, but if my ribs weren't in the way I wouldn't need too much practice in the first place, that's more or less what I mean.

>>13879057

>I also thought radicals could be an indication of pronunciation

They are in a lot of cases. You'll notice that similar looking kanji often have the same reading. Like 則, 側, and 測.

>>13878049

You don't need to know what the word sounds like unless you're reading aloud: if you know what the kanji mean you have as good a chance of guessing the meaning of the word as if you knew the pronunciation, and you can use a dictionary afterwards to find the reading and check the meaning, and if you don't know what the kanji mean, knowing how they're pronounced won't help you understand.

As for how people seperate words, there are a couple ways:

First, and easiest for beginners, is that you don't usually have two words or suffixes that are touching written in the same characters. For example, a typical words in context will have kanji or katakana to give it's meaning, followed by a particle or suffix written in hiragana, so when you see hiragana before kanji, there is a good cave that that's where the words boundary is.

The second is that, in cases where that's not the case (word is written in all hiragana, doesn't have a hiragana suffix or particle, or has hiragana before kanji, like in お茶) once you know words you can guess very accurately where the word boundaries are based on which combinations of characters are most common and most correct. YoucandothisinEnglishtoo, forexampleyou probablyaren'thavingaveryhardtimereadingthis.

>>13880448

>if you know what the kanji mean

Is it important to learn what the kanjis mean? I've just been learning via anki and never bothered to actually look into them.

>>13880516

It's kinda useful, but the main reason for studying kanji is to help recognize their shape.

>>13880516

You should learn kanji meanings because they will help you learn word meanings; use them as a tool to help memorize vocabulary. Being able to read words you've never seen before is just a bonus.

and you should learn radical meanings because they will help you learn kanji meanings.

>>13879057

Don't be fooled, this video is a vast oversimplification of Korean.

I don't know why he didn't mention it at all, probably ignorance, but written Korean does use Chinese characters (hanja) in basically the same way Japanese uses kanji. The only difference is that they are less common (but by no means uncommon) and you need fewer to read at an adult level (abot 1000). And that's South Korea, North Korea uses a lot more because of their cultural ties to the Chinese. In addition, there has been a push in recent years in south Korea to increase the amount of hanja used in schools, because the majority of adults who went through school after they were deemphasized following WWII say that it has negatively affected their ability to read and wish to see then reintroduced for various other reasons.

>>13880526

Yeah, occasionally I'll 'study' kanji to compare the differences between two similar kanji's or to confirm a pronunciation

>>13880697

I guess I've been sort of passively learning the meanings? I recognize certain kanji's and the words they are used in make sense. i had no idea radicals also head meanings

>>13879085

>>13879057

most Chinese characters (90% be number but not usage) are radical-phonetic compounds which means they are composed of one simpler character that gives the meaning, and second simpler character that has a similar pronunciation (the usually the onset and the nucleus, with the coda being ignored). So in a very historical and indirect way, pronunciations may be related based on radicals.

>>13880865

If you're already well into learning vocabulary and kanji compounds then don't bother going back to learn the individual meaning. The only reason that some radicals have individual meanings is that a lot of them are kanji themselves.

>>13881071

no, all radicals have an individual meaning separately from kanji, and then kanji have their meanings built up from the combination of the meanings of radicals used to compose them.

You're putting the cart before the horse.

>>13881096

That's true, but the actual mileage you'll get out of memorizing all the radicals and their meanings, especially if he's already been studying regular vocabulary, is very limited.

>>13881426

>230 minutes

That is way too much anon.

>>13881444

I'm just experimenting, I want to see how long I can keep that sort of pace up

>>13881466

That's not how Anki works. You can't easily lower the amount of time you spend daily. You are just going to burn out at that rate.

>>13881482

big meme

>>13881482

I've recently found myself unemployed, I may as well throw myself into this

>>13881498

Anki is a daily commitment though, and really nothing more than a supplement to normal practice. Can you really say you are going to feel like studying for 2+ hours every single day?

>>13881503

I don't know if I'll feel like it everyday, but with proper practice the reps shouldn't be too difficult.

Besides I don't find memorization too hard.

>>13881482

I shall now give you a crash course in russian

пизда = pizda (cunt)

нахуй = nahui (cock)

All the important expressions in Russian come from these two words. Congratulations, now you know how to express every feeling you have about a specific thing at every moment.

>>13879057

>But honestly, that isn't a problem when you write or read, that's the main difference.

That is exactly WHEN it's the problem

>The problem with that is that without kanji you'd be at lost.

You actually wouldn't, for the same reason you're not lost when you see the word "draw" as to whether it means "to make a picture" "to pull" or "an equal score at the end of a game." Context is king, always. That said, kanji allow for it to be read much easier and much faster once you know them.

>It's not constant at all, and a language that lack constants is pretty shitty.

It's actually much more consistent than English, at least in "proper" grammar, though both are pretty equally messy in casual conversation.

>My point with that comment is how trivial it is to say you can do it with practice.

Exactly, hence why I said it applies just as easily to Japanese, or anything else for that matter.

>>13881494

>video title: Spanish in a Month

>what the video actually is, according to itself 2 minutes in: How to speak very bad and broken Spanish in a month, in a complete immersion environment, while having no job and learning Spanish full time

god that's utter shit. If that's all you can get done under those circumstances that's actually terrible.

I skipped to the end and he tries stages a conversation with someone to test his fluency, but he barely talks, only listens, and barely responds so you can't even tell if he's really understanding most of what's going on.

Big meme indeed.

>>13880800

He did say that Korean uses chinese languages but not at the level Japanese does **1000 compared to 2000* and it was dropped recently in pro of the new system. It still seems a lot more different considering how radicals work compared to Japanese.

>>13881494

>Comparing spanish to japanese

>Specially if you're english speaker

Nigger, don't be stupid. Japanese is nothing like those other romance languages, and it's not as simple as Korean or Chinese might be. You'll burn because vocabulary is not the only thing you need.

>>13881610

>That is exactly WHEN it's the problem

It's true that both english and japanese have both problems of their own, but there's a reason why there's more people speaking english than japanese other than the practicality. Japanese is just way overly complicated when English is really flexible with it's rules.

>Context is king, always

Try pitting context in names, anon. Although, I'm not sure if with names you only deal with Kun'yomi or On'yomi specifically, that would make it a but easier, but still. Also, not saying I don't like kanji, I've actually noticed all the benefits of kanji, my problem is mostly reading and, ironically enough, how kana interacts with kanji.

>It's actually much more consistent than English

More or less, but as I said, that's mostly because there are so many exceptions that they become rules. English is a lot more flexible but it has a more rigid gramatical structure, whereas japanese have you put a lot of things one after another to change meanings. I give you that once you have the grasp of it, it's easier since you have multiple ways of say one thing, just like on english, but the problem is that it actually matters how you say it, socially speaking, with the whole formal and casual stuff.

>>13880884

>>13879085

Except, you know. There's lots of exceptions like this: 捗ちょく 歩ほ　渉しょう,

>>13882476

Yeah, he said that Korean uses Chinese loan words, as in vocabulary that is of Chinese origin. That doesn't necessitate Chinese characters, Vietnamese is is 33% Chinese loans but written entirely in the Latin script - orthography is separate from lexicon.

When he does talk about the orthographies of the two langauges, he mentions kanji, hiragana, and katakana for Japanese, but for Korean he explicitly says that they don't use Hanja at all anymore, which is an outright lie and just shows how little research he actually did. And no it was not "dropped recently in pro [sic.] of the new system", I assume you're mimicing the video without actually understanding what I'm saying. Hanja are still used today, you still need yo know them to be able to read. You seem to be conflating hanja and hangul, because you said "it still seems a lot more different considering how radicals work compared to Japanese", which is nonsense because hanja radicals work in exactly the same way as kanji radicals because they're literally the same thing. The only reason I can think that you would type that out is that you think the hangul letters that compose Korean syllabic blocks are the same as the kanji radicals because they both get put together into bigger pieces, which is wrong.

Look at it like this, Hangul is the Korean equivalent of Hiragana and Katakana, and hanja are the Korean equivalent of Kanji. Hangul has no relation to Hanja other than both being used as part of Korean.

Here's a link to a Korean digital newspaper http://www.chosun.com/, it was updated today. Even though it is designed for the lowest common denominator, several Hanja can be seen with a quick glance, without having to know any Korean, specifically "北", "美", "文", "靑", and "中" can be seen without even scrolling down.

I'm still new to this language, been taking a class and studying almost everyday for the past few months. Has anyone actually tried talking to a japanese person in real life? I met one through HelloTalk recently, so far I can only ask basic questions and say basic things in japanese.

>>13882653

>Has anyone actually tried talking to a japanese person in real life?

I have seen about fifteen Japanese people in my entire life. Two of them were in a local Walmart, one of them was in a gift shop in Daytona, and the rest were in the Japanese section of Epcot. I wish I had a real one to talk to in person, but they're rare as fuck around here. I ain't payin' for year-round Disney passes for that shit.

>>13884343

Not every kanji has a logical connection. You can use mnemonics to make your own connections to help remember them.

>>13884343

What sort of connection are you looking for? That looks more like a connection by radicals than anything else.

>>13884353

I mean the words use the same symbol, there has to be some connection, right?

I mean a lot of similar looking Kanji describe something similar.

Like tree and forest 木 and 林

>>13884360

It grows fast?

>>13884360

As the other anon said, that's not always the case. Just use it as mnemoic, but don't expect everything to follow that logic. For example「本」「木」「未」「来」none of these have connections even though they are almost exactly the same shit. If you will look for logic, look for logic in compounds, not individual kanji.

>>13884355

>Lose control of life

>Finish reps around 3:30am 2 days ago

>Go to bed around 11am

>Get up at 8pm

>Procrastrinate

>Miss the mark of 4:30

>Reps pile up

I should really fix my fucking schedule even though I drifted towards the NEET life.

>>13884374

You gotta make it a habit anon. I don't even think about studying anymore, I just do it as naturally as eating.

>>13884379

So do I, but lately, since I'm a NEET again, I've been more busy finishing games, so there's a lot less time for games, when I usually did it on my free time at job. I try to take it slowly, lately I don't really have that much cards since I'm taking it easy, but I guess that's also why I lower my guard

<Well, they are a few, I bet I can finish them later

>>13884374

>look for logic in compounds

Alright, is there a compound guide or something?

>>13884430

Not really, you learn as you grind in anki, but take the days of the week as example.

「日曜日」It's written with the kanji of sun, so you can take it as the day of the sun, fucking Sunday.

「月曜日」Written with the kanji of moon, moon day, Monday.

「火曜日」Written with the kanji of fire, fire day, Tuesday,

「水曜日」Kanji of water, water say, Wednesday.

「木曜日」Kanji of wood, wood day, Thursday.

「金曜日」Kanji of metal, metal day, Friday, because it's the coolest.

「土曜日」Kanji of earth, earth day, saturday.

And so on and so forth. Other examples are「毎日」with the kanji of "Every" and "day", so guess what is the fucking meaning, or「外人」 with the kanji of "outside" and "person". That's the kind of sense you're looking for, and whenever you see 「外」 you know it's something that has to do with "outside".

>>13884343

http://www.genetickanji.com/ has some basic etymological explanations. I don't know how comprehensive or good they are as I never used it myself. Since those are beginner kanji I'm guessing you're probably not at the stage where this will help you much yet, being in Japanese and all, but there's sites like this one https://okjiten.jp/kanji67.html which have a basic explanation about the character makeup or origin in their entries. You can also Google the character/s together with a word like 起源, 由来, 成り立ち, 関係 or something and usually find some more detailed explanations on various sites such as this http://blog.goo.ne.jp/ishiseiji/e/0aa636fa4402134a43ef24318898d570

>>13884343

Search for the characters on Wiktionary and look at the "glyph origin" subsection of the Chinese section.

I'm pretty sure one of the girls that work at a Japanese restaurant at the same mall I work at is actually Japanese. I only see her when she's coming/leaving work though. I want to practice my speaking skills but I'm afraid that I will look like a baka and be bullied.

>>13885862

Well, you can approach her, explain her the situation, tell her your power level on Japanese, and ask her if she can help you. Just be confidence, and if she actually knows nip, don't be afraid to make mistakes.

>>13885923

>Well, you can approach her

I was thinking of just saying something like, "あの、すみません、日本人ですか？” and then introducing myself like, "俺は＿です。”　or should I just use わたし? And then asking her questions like "名字はなんですか？”　”学校に行ってますか？”　Ｉ’ｖｅ　ｂｅｅｎ　ｔｈｉｎｋｉｎｇ　ｕｐ　ａ　ｓｃｒｉｐｔ　ｆｏｒ　ｌｉｋｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｐａｓｔ　ｔｗｏ　ｍｏｎｔｈｓ．．．

>>13885949

You'd probably scare the shit out of her, or pass as a weeb, or both. Just approach her like a normal and decent human being, even though you probably aren't. After you hold a conversation with her ON ENGLISH, then start over on japanese and go on from there.

You could even get her number or something as an excuse for practicing. Worst case scenario, she says "nope, sorry", but you're not ridiculed.

>>13885963

On that note, approaching her suddenly with a request might be rude and creepy too.

>>13887333

Who's this slut?

>>13888248

>nearly 1500 cards in a day

you're gonna burn yourself out. how much of that do you really think you're retaining?

>>13884017

Haha, that's pretty funny that you saw them at Epcot. I remember going there a long time ago. Their Japanese section is pretty cool actually.

I just feel like I should be able to speak more japanese, but I'm just not confident enough yet. I can say basic shit but trying to make conversation can be a little difficult.

>>13888248

>>13886865

>1434 cars in 174 minutes

Jesus, anon, are you ok? Do you even pay attention to the examples?

>>13888777 (Fucking Mondo Checked)

>I just feel like I should be able to speak more japanese, but I'm just not confident enough yet.

With digits like that, you'll get there, brother.

Does anyone know a good resources that lists the accentuation patterns for the various verb and adjective forms? I don't need them now, but after I'm finished with Genki 1 I want to go back and get my accent placement right. The problem is I'm having a very hard time finding a sources that lists gives the rules for all of the forms. I can find some like OJAD that give it for many of the forms but not nearly all, and plenty that give the placement in the dictionary form but neither of those are giving rules to follow or even showing all of the common forms to try and figure them out for myself.

>>13889768

>Implying

Fag, everyone here is at the very least slightly familiar with Japanese media through all the media they fucking consume from there, namely games and manga. Sure, maybe it's not the best way to know, but they are, or at the very least me, aware of the whole deal. Go and drown in cocks in your japanese bars.

>>13890595

>First time I see them I'll read them

Don't do. Read the examples since they help you in the long run, but seeing how you do 1000+ cards a day, you might be a genius or a retard.

>>13889768

Go back and look at the responses to your post. Literally nobody understood what you were trying to say (assuming that is actually what you meant and you're not coming up with it post-hoc to cover your ass). If you were trying to start a conversation about register and honorifics in Japanese then you aren't very good at communication; are you autistic?

>>13884430

You can use jisho.org. When you search for a single kanji there it also lists the most used compounds in which this kanji appears.

>>13891126

also, if you put an asterisk before a kanji you're searching, then jisho will list all the words that 'end with that kanji. just a little tip.

>>13892921

here's Jisho's entire search syntax documentation page, which has the rest of those http://jisho.org/docs

Can you recommend some texts written in Japanese by foreigners? I find them to be more readable even if the writer is highly proficient in Japanese.

>>13895166

There's plenty of resources for learning, including this thread. Are you looking for 1 on 1 tutoring?

While sure studying the kanji is important, I think there is some trickery here people miss. The real important thing is the actual vocabulary the kanji form.

Obenkyo has vocabulary sections divided by JLPT levels, but that's not optimal.

Is there nothing in which you can insert a list of all the kanji you have learned and so it spits you flashcards to learn?

>>13895166

It doesn't matter if you have all the resources in the world, you need to actually do the work bitch tits.

Plenty of people right now, who have been living in japan for 5+ years who can barely speak a word of it.

>>13896406

Make your own anki deck.

>>13896754

Let's see how well you're doing in a year's time, I guess.

>>13895357

Read the first spoiler. The joke is I'm looking for someone to aid in killing me, as I find it impossible to learn. The sentence is structured to appear as though it's a request for tutoring except for the censored word. >>13831337

>>13897397

It's more of an internet thing for people to joke about suicide but it's not too uncommon here either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deprecation

>>13897421

Instead of making shitty jokes, go study.

Is there a consensus or details on the Duolingo Japanese course? I have heard good things about their other languages but I've seen some mixed results on the Japanese one in particular. On the positive side I've heard it's not a good course in itself but is a good introduction that will help you kickstart the process. However on the negative side I've heard the complete opposite, that it's not a good starting point and that you need to know some of the grammar rules beforehand.

Can anyone give anecdotes on this?

>>13897538

What if I got someone to kill me instead?

>>13897817

there's not really a consensus on it, but you should never use just one learning resource/tool, no matter what it is. Use it if you want, but do so in combination with the other resources listed in the OP.

>>13897817

there is no one trick pony to learning a language

>>13897919

>>13897855

Specifically I am just curious if it is a valid starting resource or a valid resource at all, not that it would be an end all be all. I'm curious to hear from people who have tried it before allocating time for it. I tend to spend a lot of time choosing learning resources to maximize effectiveness by minimizing overlap and trying to avoid courses that have too many knocks against them if possible, with that I mean I want to avoid wasting time trying to get somethng out of a course that is just notoriously bad at conveying a particular piece of information, or worse teaches it poorly in a way you will have to unlearn and relearn in another course. If that makes sense. With something that is already going to take a lot of time I am really stressing the search for optimal material.

>>13897978

1. www.realkana.com

2. genki 1/genki 2, tae kim, , learning japanese the manga way, genki 2 - Do all of them, they all cover the same material but you'll pick up stuff/different view points.

3. Grab the 6k anki deck, 20 words a day.

That's enough for you to get started.

>>13898020

this is the right answer, it will get you far enough to decide what you want to do and how you absorb material best.

>>13897978

duolingo in a nutshell:

1. here, learn this kana

2. now that you know it, match this sound clip to its corresponding kana

3. here, now learn this word

4. now that you know it, fill in the blank by using the correct word from a multiple choice list

<20+ words later

5. here, complete this test, it will cover material we have drilled into your ass over the last x many lessons

6. repeat

7. ???

8. profit

>>13898020

Yeah but wouldn't it be easier if you just came over and strangled me?

I appreciate the resources, I'm still interested in hearing anecdotes on the Duolingo course-ware though, if only to hear them. I feel like it can't hurt to hear positive and/or negative remarks either way.

>>13898125

Do you have an opinion on the effectiveness of it? It seems like such a method could work, but the pace would be slow, so slow that it may be detrimental long term.

>>13898125

That sounds like memrise.

>>13898163

I don't have any strong opinions on it. It's basically Rosetta Stone but without the pictures. I don't how strict some of the requirements are. For instance, sometimes it will show you a sentence or a phrase and it will expect you to translate it precisely how the program understands it, and not necessarily how it could be interpreted, which means that any other valid expression will be deemed incorrect. I think it has value, but only when you're just starting out, because eventually you'll get to a point where it'll be more efficient and productive to just read actual text, as Duolingo primarily concerns itself with grammar. As for vocabulary, you can't top Anki with the core2k/6k deck.

In short, you'd be better off drilling kana and vocab flash cards and reading Tae Kim, but Duolingo couldn't hurt. One plus side is that it has an active forums, if you're the type who needs constant feedback from people, but I don't see why you can't just use this thread for that.

>>13898196

Kinda, yeah.

>>13898163

You seem really fixated on Duolingo. The best time to start is now, learn the kana and if you decide to work with Duolingo later you'll have a head start I guess.

>>13898233

Yeah if it is like memrise you should learn kana first. I quit memrise for now until I get all the hiragana and katakana memorized. I just wasn't learning right and could only read the phrases it taught me.

>>13898233

I try to do the same with all resources, the issue I'm having with Duolingo in particular is that it's new so there isn't much information to go off of yet, I'm trying to flush it out specifically if I can. For example, the reputation of Anki is well known and I can find plenty of talk about it here and elsewhere, I don't have to ask about it because it has a reputation already.

>>13898218

I appreciate the input and suggestions.

>>13898283

Bud, I don't think you realise this but, these apps are a basic level of Japanese. A 5 year old will still have leagues more proficiency in Japanese than these apps will teach you. maybe not in straight up kanji reading, but the point is, these apps alone won't get you anywhere above "maggot level" of proficiency

>>13898361

The point is to figure out the effectiveness of course-ware, specifically, Duolingo. I'm asking for anecdotes and opinion on it, is that odd?

>>13898422

>I tend to spend a lot of time choosing learning resources to maximize effectiveness

Better resources have already been listed

>>13897817

All, 100% of duolingo courses are shit, because they are based on hippie pseudoscience that has been thoroughly dusproven. The app and the didactic philosophy behind it are designed to make you able to say "I am learning another language" but never "I can speak another language". It's also based on the idea that learning a language should involve as little challenge as possible, end results be damned.

>>13898482

I know, but that doesn't really have to do with what I'm asking.

I'm looking for things like this >>13898560 and >>13898218

>>13898560

I will stipulate that Duolingo does have exactly two valid uses:

>you are a prepubescent child, or have a prepubescent child that you want to learn a language this is not an insult, I mean this very literally

>you have already learned the all the grammar that the course covers from an outside source, and are using it as a review/practice tool and getting more vocab from

In either case, if you are posting in this thread, you should not use Duolingo to learn the language.

>>13898662

I'm pretty sure he's here for someone other than himself.

>>13898750

Are you talking about me? If so, why jump to such a wild conclusion? Is it that strange to ask if a language learning service has any merit in a thread devoted to learning a language? I genuinely wanted to know for myself, I'm very curious about it since it seems to be somewhat popular for other languages, but who knows if it's actually any good, not me, which is why I ask. Sorry if my English has been confusing or misleading, it was not my intent.

>>13898662

Good to know, thanks. Interesting your remarks on it potentially being useful for kids.

>>13899012

I think what people find strange is that you showed up in the Japanese thread seemingly not to learn anything about Japanese, but specifically to learn about if Duolingo is effective. You've dismissed other attempts to point you in the direction of useful resources and you've gotten a few responses now saying that it's bad/mediocre, yet you keep asking specifically for information about Duolingo. The reason everyone keeps telling you about things that aren't Duolingo is because those tools are what we used to learn, and we're familiar and happy to help with them.

>>13899033

I was just trying to clarify my inquiry, I know about other resources, and I'm curious about new ones, like you said people have pointed out that it's not worth using and that's what I was after, it took much less time to ask about it than it would have to go through the whole course myself. I'm sure at some point Anki was new and someone had to ask about it, I don't think asking about new avenues for learning should be taboo. I really do think it was an innocuous question, I'm still unsure as to why it's upsetting some people here. It doesn't seem very helpful to be that way.

>>13899065

It wasn't the question, it was the spergy way you responded to people.

>>13898750

Yes I am talking about you. Your a newcomer that has a hardon for duolingo, despite other people telling you there are already better methods in place

You claim that your researching the "best way" yet only focussing on one thing

I don't think your here to study japanese personally but research/blog/upsell some shit to goyem

>>13899075

Ahh, I mean what kind of people do you expect to be interested in these kinds of things.

>>13899077

I don't know what to tell you. I'm not researching a "best way" I look at what options are there and try to evaluate them, Duolingo is a new service that isn't even fully available yet for Japanese, when I come into these threads I don't see it talked about, which is why I'm asking about it specifically, like I said before everything else being suggested as an alternative to it I already know about and is on the docket, Duolino is an unknown and I need to figure out if it stays or goes. As others have already pointed out, you should use multiple sources, everything being said has been repeated in these threads since before they were even on 8/v/. I think you're being a bit too paranoid, honestly. Someone of your stature shouldn't even be judging others in these threads, have you even been at this for more than a month?

>>13899102

If you've been reading these thread "before they were even on 8/v/" you would have already heard people discuss Duolingo here, it comes up pretty frequently and gets similar answers to what you've heard today. I don't think you're exactly in a position to joke about the skill level of others if you're still even considering Duolingo as a learning platform, it's strictly beginner shit.

>>13899121

I didn't say I've been reading the threads consecutively since before they were here, the service has been available for less than a year in regards to Japanese, I read them more before than I do now, this is the first time I am coming to one in months.

>I don't think you're exactly in a position to joke

It's not a joke, a first year student shouldn't reprimand those asking questions about curriculum, what does that help other than to inflate their ego?

>if you're still even considering Duolingo

I fail to see why someone who has 0 knowledge of it wouldn't consider it as an option and ask about it usefulness. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp, that new things come out and they have the potential to be useful, as it turns out this one isn't, I wouldn't have known if I had not asked. Not a single post even mentions the name before mine, so it's not like you can say it was well discussed already.

I still fail to see why I shouldn't have asked about it, or anything else not already mentioned for that matter.

This hard headed attitude is not good for this topic, I see no reason why we should not discuss the pros and cons of any particular resource, be it new or old. This is the only way people who don't know about it first hand find a way to evaluate its merit.

>>13899102

>>13899176

How about you actually do the course and judge it for yourself. If you can't do that, don't bother questioning my ability

>>13899102

>I'm not researching a best way

>I tend to spend a lot of time choosing learning resources to maximize effectiveness

>>13899190

Also this

>>13899205

Notice the final S in "resources", I'm not and have not implied that 1 course is the "best way", at no point did I ever try to imply Duolingo was either, I was very upfront from the beginning that I have no knowledge of it which is the entire reason I am asking. I fully understand that this is a dense topic and requires many things to aid in learning, I am simply trying to discuss one of the millions of options, just as I would for any other that isn't well documented.

>>13899190

That defeats the entire point in asking. It's also not practical for the reason I listed here in my second reply on the topic >>13897978

It's impractical to suggest that someone just evaluate every resources first hand when they could easily just ask a community centered around the topic who should be able to convey the effectiveness in a concise way. Is that not the entire point of these threads? To share and discuss resources, to help learn together? Your hostile and cocky attitude seems unwarranted and out of place.

>>13899260

>hey guys, I do not value my own opinion in any form so please spoonfeed me

>>13899287

Why act this way? You're a junior in more ways than one.

You know for a fact that's not my position. This is a thread about learning Japanese but you act like asking questions about Japanese learning resources is a bad thing to do. Absolutely terrible.

>>13899287

>having your own opinion

You better watch yourself, goy.

>>13899311

>been told there are ready better alternatives

>still wants to talk about duolingo

Please stop

everyone replying to him is just making it worse

>>13899331

It's a general topic, Duolingo just happened to be the thing I'm asking about. The only thing I've been doing for the last few posts has been trying to explain to you what was going on because you're paranoid. >>13899077

As if it's so unimaginable that someone would ask some questions about learning resources in a learning thread.

You should see this post again >>13898422

Being told "there are alternatives" doesn't help in any way to evaluate a new alternative. How are you missing that?

>>13899382

Why don't you just try it?

>>13899382

>be told a better method exists

>won't let go "please give me feedback" about duolingo

>isn't willing to actually do any research himself

Also

>being told there are better things doesn't help me evaluate this

So, who are we "evaluating" for?

>>13899190

No that's stupid. Being a good consumer doesn't mean giving your money to every company to personally verify that you don't like their product / that it won't work, it means researching what other people's experiences are and not giving the company your money (or in this case, your time, which is money to them because Duolingo sells ads).

What you've said is the same as saying "You can't not buy a game because it's bad because you don't know if it's bad! don't listen to other people's recommendations just this shit that looks and smells like shit because maybe it won't taste like shit."

>>13899438

>researching what other people's experiences are

That doesn't mean shit with language learning, since some methods are more effective for some people than others.

>>13899401

From what I gathered based on some previous discussion and thoughts in this thread, it doesn't seem very effective. There seems to be better options for beginners such as tae kim's guide and the genki books. Maybe they will refactor the course but as it is right now, Duolingo doesn't seem useful compared to what's out there.

I've specifically heard this before for other languages besides Japanese >>13898560

>The app and the didactic philosophy behind it are designed to make you able to say "I am learning another language" but never "I can speak another language".

>>13899425

Are you as paranoid about being serious as you are with everything else?

>>13899438

He can't be bothered trying out a product for himself that is free to investigate. I've tried plenty of apps and dropped them, you can generally tell if they are good or not at any level.

He's got an angle and I don't like it

>>13899461

Alright, lets get serious for a second here. How can I possibly profit off the idea that Duolingo is not a good service for learning Japanese.

>TOP 10 WORST SERVICES FOR LEARNING JAPANESE CLICK NOW

>>13899438

>or in this case, your time

This is important. For a subject that takes multiple years, I don't want to be wasting even weeks or months on something that literally has no redeemable qualities. More importantly the marketing for their service is somewhat deceptive, it's very lively and friendly, it looks like a good free service for beginners, but from what I have learned in asking, it seems like it's not. That information is invaluable to me in multiple ways, not only does it prevent me from wasting time but it also takes any doubt out of my mind either, the feeling of "am I not getting it or is this course just bad?" will not happen which is important for motivation.