/v/ - Video Games

Gameplay-based unlocks are okay for single player. Multiplayer deserves none of them.

>>13801231

>Why can't they make it that simple?

✡

>>13801155

I'm okay with unlockable cheat codes/things that make the game easier. I'm also okay with purely cosmetic unlockables and even microtransactions for purely cosmetic items.

The only unlockable I ever worked hard to unlock was the "Big Boss" mask in Metal Gear Solid 4. It's a special mask that literally scares human enemies shitless when they see your burnt off, fucked up face. You can only unlock it by earning the big boss emblem. Criteria here:

>Complete the game in less than 5 hours

>Use no continues

>Use no health items e.g. rations, regain, etc.

>Kill no enemies (Gekkos, Dwarf Gekkos and Sliders do not count as kills. You can kill bosses including Vamp but not the Beauties)

>No alert phases (cautions are allowed)

>No special items (stealth, bandana)

>Complete the game on The Boss Extreme

—–

I also like how in Metal Gear Solid 3, whenever you defeated a boss through non-lethal means, the bosses drop and leave behind a special camouflage for you to pick up. I think that it would be cool if more games did that. Rewarding you for beating the bosses in a very specific way, just to unlock some cool unlockable.

>>13801155

Customers paying extra should have options to dominate over these that don't. It stimulates market, encouraging the vanilla players to buy more content in order to excel at the game. Those who do not wish to partake do not matter anyway, since they bought the game already. It's a very good business model, I am surprised that it's only taking off nowadays.

>>13801256

>I'm okay with microtransactions for purely cosmetic items

then you're a cuck who supports companies contaminating their game with jewery and turning their communities into a bunch of suckers who pony up cash for virtual trinkets and revere said items, what else can be said?

>>13801294

Making a profit on a product is not jewry, anon. It's business. I don't want to sell shit at a loss, because it's communism. Btw, your .webm is broken. The picture disappears once you play the .webm.

Do what Timesplitters did and put unlockables behind challenges where you have to git gud in the game's mechanics to get new stuff.

>>13801205

I think multiplayer unlocks are fine as long as

A) They arent just complete upgrades over the base weapons/characters/equipment/whatever

B) The method of unlock doesnt take fuckloads of hours of grinding

I think TF2 did unlocks pretty decently before it went to utter shit.

1-Gives you a bunch of character-specific achievements, most of which can be easily achieved with a little effort or just within a few rounds

2-Complete a certain percentage of them to prove that you've gotten the basics of the character down

3-Enjoy your new toy that lets you play the character in a slightly different way, but not just a straight upgrade

>>13801338

They're not needed for profit, but they increase it. If you portion content in several hour segments and release DLC, microtransactions and shit as time goes on, people will feel compelled not to abandon the video game. They'll feel it is still alive as they play it and continuously be given new opportunities to explore things they have not seen before. Normalfags seem to like it, just look at game completion rate since reduction of long campaigns. It's a very sound business model. And the webm - it plays audio, but it has no visuals like the pic in the thumbnail.

>>13801318

>>13801430

Works when you save and run it with vlc

>>13801358

It's simply a pointless nuisance that limits your options for a long while or requires you to farm pointless cheevos, especially when you're playing a new account or when a bunch of people feel like hosting an old viddy game and bam everything needs to be unlocked.

>>13801256

>even microtransactions for purely cosmetic items.

Even when these things do not directly effect gameplay, and even if they never lead to non-cosmetic microtransactions, they are a cancer. This mindset allows the following things

>Paying for filters and shaders

>Paying for the cosmetic upgrade from 480p to 720p to 4K to etc.

>Dev makes game

>Publisher decides the default outfit made with the game's style and tone in mind is too cool

>Forces the dev to make a shittier outfit that does not fit the tone and style into the default whiling locking the previously planned default behind microtransactions

>This same idea is applied to all possibly interchangeable art assets in the game: characters, weapons, enemies, vehicles, objects, enviroments, animations, music, etc.

>Paying for dual audio This has happened already if you didn't know.

>Paying for improved cutscenes, as cutscenes are purely cosmetic

Are you just a youngfag, or did you somehow forget that before microtransactions, things that were purely cosmetic were unlockable only by playing the game because they're part of the game you already paid for. Microtransactions are absolute cancer in any form.

>>13801697

Anon, capitalism shouldn't be restricted in any way, after all you should sell weapons to certain undesirables who'll use them to shoot you.

Unfortunately EA has enough capital to invest into social engineering and borderline brainwashing so nobody ever actually stops buying their shit.

>>13801268

>Rewarding you for beating the bosses in a very specific way, just to unlock some cool unlockable.

Makes me think of Debilitas from Haunting Ground/Demento.

>>13801697

My shit understanding of economics? Name 5 games that sold outrageously (or remotely close to AAA games like FO3 or whatever) without significant marketing budget, jack ass. Destiny was a blunder, because that's what happens when you have incompetent PR team sitting on their ass inventing uninspired methods to promote product. Often AAA games turn a profit, because execs do not let PR teams run wild with retarded ideas. If AAA games were unprofitable, then they would not be made due to lack of funds. You should be the one who learns something about business before you talk about shit you have idea about.

>>13801818

>inventing uninspired methods to promote product

What methods would that be?

>>13801843

And not all Triplayy games with microtransactions games have had EA tier practices in them either. Are you seriously telling me increasing cosmetic microtransactions haven't normalized microtransactions in general?

>>13801875

It doesn't matter what tripleayy is doing, Dota 2 is a case and point where you can sell only cosmetics and not devolve into your bullshit "normalization". EA was spewing DLC bullshit before Dota 2 even fucking existed. If this slippery slope of yours is real why hasn't Dota done what EA was doing? Wasn't it "normalized"? The idiots who pay for optional pixels and the idiots who pay for bullshit optional game content, which one is more retarded?

>>13801846

Beats me, but that's the first conclusion you come to when you've never heard of destiny beyond some cookiecutter paid articles with funding like that.

>>13801858

I am a sales director, I am telling you what works and what doesn't work. These sales practices increase profit margins and since gamers are dumb cucks they happily pay up. It's done because it works and it's profitable. The only rule in trading, business, commerce whatever. Data so far points to these business practices working well, so I support this because it means I make more money. Period.

>>13801924

>If this slippery slope of yours is real

How do you think we got here? Just because some things are going over the edge like EA doesn't mean all things will, even after EA does. But more on average will do it the more microtransactions are used in major games.

>>13801929

Hey sales director, did other games having cosmetic DLC cause your shit company to develop current profitable cancerous DLC ala>>13801782

>>13801945

Have you considered that there is no slippery slope, and that the reason it works is because noemalfags have enabled it from the beginning? "Normalization" implies normalfags disliked the practice but they've been enabling it since conception.

>>13801231

SJWs and women aren't good at games so that's sexist and racist.

In almost every game, you are "unlocking" new content, like new levels as you play through the game and such.

The question you need to ask is "what purpose does the unlock serve?".

In a good game, it comes down to either of two:

>To prevent players from consuming content faster than would be enjoyable.

You don't want to give the player access to the final level when he hasn't even played through the fucking tutorial. This is especially the case in RPG games where you'd essentially be skipping 90% of the story.

Giving players gimmicky customization options is also a terrible idea when the player doesn't even have a grasp on how the game even would be played.

>To reward the player with content for meeting challenges.

Simply dangling a reward in front of a player, even if insignificant, will make players attempt whatever stupid challenge you present. In that case, the process of unlocking the unlock becomes content.

The "bad" features you mention all come down to a third reason that has become very prevalent in gaming and are what people truly despise:

>To pad the game's content.

Any game that tries to monetize on basis of playtime, whether it's through subscription or microtransactions, is incentivized to do this.

Rather than having developers design the game so that the content sticks around for the exact amount of time that is the most enjoyable; we see publishers pushing for content outstaying its welcome.

Ultimately it's just a big grey line between proper pacing & challenge and padding, and where the line is placed differs on a person-by-person basis. What we're seeing now in the industry is publishers slowly trying to pad more and more in order to maximize monetization, consumers calling them out on it in the process.

I believe the bigger cancer here is not the grind4unlock, but the chest-gambling bullshit, as that is the thing that allows publishers to obscenely price unlockables. When you sell a specific unlock to a player, the player will call you out on 100 bucks being outrageous. But when you instead sell 1% chance to get an actually decent unlock for 1 buck, and completely hide the fact that the chances are abysmal, then it's a lot easier to serve extremely overpriced products to players.

>>13801155

Should be like 90s unlockables; can be unlocked via cheats or completing a portion of the game.

Microtransactions and ads should only be in F2P games as it's their only method of revenue, not in indie or AAA games. If I buy a game, I shouldn't have to buy extra shit.

>>13801231

Used to be that way. Thanks to modern DLC though that shit is always paid/grind content now. Hell even cheats in some games are paid content as well.

>>13802256

>There's either a crash or a recession on the horizon for this industry

How many decades has this been said for now?

>>13802256

Never heard of any of them except for splatoon because a girl I know likes playing that for some reason. Oh and cuphead I guess, what with its cringy fanbase being spammed here when it released. None of them sold remotely close to AAA games with even just semi-competent marketing teams.

You want to say that these AAA games are flopping, but really, they are not in the way you think. Normalfag gamers have often opposite opinions to here. This place is not representative of gamers. Sure, you'll see that a game is shitty and won't buy it. Most normaltarded gamers won't see that and will buy anything at the first impulse because they are retarded. Lots of "silent majority" gamers buy these games without looking at publishers and regardless whether they play the game down the line or not, they already paid for the game. It doesn't matter what comes after first two months, because on average sales plummet after that regardless whether your game is good or not. Building a loyal fanbase? Who? You? Anons do not spend money on games, they pirate games. Normalfags are the best market because they are too dumb to torrent games. It's the same reason why SJW shit is pushed around every corner - because commie faggots are too dumb and computer illiterate to run a torrent client so they buy retarded content. Building a loyal fanbase is basically doing what star citizen did. Find a bunch of impressionable retards, resonate with what they like and then sell to them some of their dream-flavored shit. That's a loyal fanbase, not people who will buy just some games from you and finish it there. People vote with the money and demographics that spend the most are the most loyal in the eyes of business.

If you think crash is incoming, then think again. "crash is coming" is a meme that probably outdates gamergate. I think I started hearing it come 2011? 2012? So far gaming has only grown.

>>13801190

>make it like the japs

<have to do things multiple times and/or get a perfect score by playing the same 5 minutes of gameplay a thousand times to get unlock credits

<beat the game multiple times before you can see the real ending

That's a recipe for making shitty games, anon.

>>13801268

>beat boss non-lethally

>they allahu akbar anyway

>so there's no point other than the overpowered camos

Is it confirmed the burned BB is actually Venom Snake by this point?

>>13802256

>faggots playing games for children and journalists doing free viral marketing by being bad in a video

What a great replacement for marketing budgets.

>>13802496

>Neir Automata

>KOFXIV

>Bravely Default

>never heard of them

Do you even play games nigger?

>>13802605

>Do you even play games nigger?

Pay attention anon.

>>13801929

>I am a sales director

He wants money, regardless of whether it comes at the expense of quality.

>>13802605

Sure anon. I'll play a round of cnc or TA from time to time. But they don't make games like that anymore because they were not as profitable as watered down garbage for normalfags. Imagine working in a job you got into because you loved games and by now you've been working with games you hate longer than the games that got you here in the first place. Wanna trade jobs?

>>13802496

How the fuck did you miss Nier Automata? We had pics of 2B's ass posted constantly for the past months.

>>13802639

>Starting to doubt about your job anon

>He wants

Read.

>>13802373

https://archive.is/UJIwv

SNK described it as "very profitable" and it single-handedly made their focus on video games worthwhile. Please don't tell me you're some SFV apologist who thinks KoF is "niche."

>>13802496

>never heard of any of them

6/10 I thought you were serious.

>cuphead

Cuphead sold over a million copies in, what, two weeks? It was made by two people and had roughly zero press besides a journalist who was dumber than a pigeon. Scaling that up for a AAA video game would mean upwards of 10-15 million sales with some modest trailers. Show me the game that's sold that well with that little marketing.

>Normalfag gamers have often opposite opinions to here. This place is not representative of gamers

Nowhere did I say this place was representative of gamers. You seem to be making the retarded assumption that /v/ anons don't base our laughingstock threads on anything but what we want to be true. This isn't the case: Lawbreakers and Stillborn are the obvious examples, but even Battlefield Kangz and Wolfenstein The New Colossus sold poorly compared to what they needed to make. Fuck, do you remember when nu-Tomb Raider sold 5 million copies and was deemed a financial failure? The Destiny 2 threads were full of screenshots of the negative trend in player numbers before the player tracking website shut itself down to obfuscate the data.

>it doesn't matter what comes after the first two months

But you just spent five posts telling us how games-as-a-service monetization makes money. If it's such a small sliver of revenue compared to launch sales, why bother torpedoing a developer or publisher's reputation over it? Why bother setting up the infrastructure needed to support it? Why bother bolting it onto an existing business model that was never intended to support it?

>piracy meme

Lol.

>SJWs buying anything

LAWL. Is that why Sunset failed? Is that why Watch_Dogs 2 had such a shitty launch? Is that why Lawbreakers is dead in the water? Is that why Mirror's Edge: Catalyst was a bomb despite redesigning Faith to be a stronk independent mattress woman who didn't need no man?

>>13802653

>"I-I too e-enjoy command and c-c-conquer, fellow a-anons"

>>13801155

Unlo–what? ooh! you mean DLC?

>>13803652

b-b-b-b-b-b-but some of us have a life! we can't be bothered to play the games to that degree!

>>13803672

I remember people said that about MMOs, which they're a bit right because MMO's do take up a lot of time. But now I see that for even games like Devil May Cry.

>>13803699

MMO's seem to be built on the P2W stuff from the start, specially Korean ones, as for DMC, yeah, some people were defending DmC's watered down gameplay by saying the old fans were salty about new players being able to do all those combos now without "being a no-life nurd" and the like.

>>13802595

>Is it confirmed the burned BB is actually Venom Snake by this point?

Did you not actually play the game?

>>13802496

>never heard of any of them

Are you living under a rock?

Also AAA marketing sucks up all the profit in the sales, good games don't need huge marketing, they market themselves.

Marketing serves specially when you're delivering a piece of shit or a trap.

A relatively cheaply made (around 50.000$-200.000$ in development cost) game, if done well, can rack up millions without a single cent spent in marketing, the problem is that no publisher is willing to experiment or hire indipendent devs without fucking their shit up; and only indie devs are the ones trying to do new things. In the end if profit is the key, a low cost high profit game is more reasonable than a high cost high profit one.

>>13801190

>like the nips do

I hope you get your dick stuck in a gacha machine

>>13802256

>>13802373

Shoulda rename it as Spic of Fighters amirite

>>13802496

>Never heard of NieR: Automata, King of Fighters 14(King of fucking Fighters! POR FAVOR!) nor Bravely Default

>Works "inside" the video game industry

Yeah, I believe you. And my uncle works for Nintendo.

In the game Shinboi for PS2, you can unlock new characters by collecting the Oboro clan coins that appear in each level. The amount of coins that are available is dependent on which difficulty mode you're playing on, so if you want to collect them all, you'll have to complete the game multiple times on each difficulty. You start on Normal, and you must complete the game once to unlock Hard, then complete the game on hard to unlock Super difficulty. You get two new characters, and you unlock a special mission when you collect all the coins, and the rewards are unlocked at different tiers (i.e. you unlock Hotsuma's brother Moritsune by collecting something like 30 coins, you will then unlock Joe Musashi at 40 coins).

It's a good example because it challenges you to complete the harder difficulties, and it rewards you for doing so. The downside is that Moritsune and Joe Musashi are pretty much model swaps with Hotsuma, although they do function in slightly different ways (Both Hotsuma and Moritsune's life bar will steadily drain if the player doesn't continually kill enemies and consume their Yin; Moritsune's Yin gauge will drain faster, but he does slightly more damage. Joe Musashi doesn't have a Yin gauge, so you will not have to worry about maintaining a killstreak, but he is slightly weaker than Hotsuma, and he has infinite shurikens that do not stun enemies)

In the sequel, Kunoichi, it's essentially the same system as before, although you unlock three total characters, one of which who has a unique moveset, (Hitsui has a different moveset than Hibana, although Hotsuma and Joe reappear as they did in the first game), and you can also unlock Survival Missions, Time Trials, and VR Missions. The Survival Missions will pit you against a succession of foes, the Time Trials take place in the main story's admittedly small mission areas, and the VR Missions give you extra objectives to complete for the fun of it.

In both games, you can unlock various pieces of artwork; in the first game, the Oboro coins would unlock art work, while in the second game there are holographic cards that are scattered around each main mission that the player must collect in order to unlock said artwork.

In short, these two games handle unlockables pretty well.

I don't mind unlocking shit but having to grind hard and long for shit like what they've done with lootbox games is absurd and not what I mean.

In my perfect world specific unlockables aren't advertised, maybe "you unlock shit as you go", but that's a given with most games (how else do you get to the next level other than unlocking it?) but let's say they give you a level creator after beating Tiny Metal (they won't), I would shit my pants. I would have no way of knowing that was coming, being perfectly content knowing I bought the game that I bought and then getting what would be a huge add on for me after beating it. There would be people that would bitch about it such as people that looked up what was not advertised and thought that they deserved that content at the beginning as if it was a known part of the game to purchasers (in this case it wasn't), or people that have beaten the game so they know about it and pick it back up on something without a completed file for the game (maybe a password would be good to give once a person beats the game, this would solve for anyone with grievances I believe).

Unlockable content can be something that you could get really rewarding with but I think the biggest flaw is advertising the specific content (ie. "YOU GET A FUCKING LEVEL CREATOR") but failing to mention how much you have to grind to get it, or acting as if it isn't actually unlockable but readily attainable content at the start of the game. Or, if it's a feature from previous games in a series that fans have come to expect to suddenly lock it behind a grind wall when that was not the case in any previous iteration could be really frustrating or outright horse shit. Another way I could see end game unlockable content being a bad decision is if the content is markedly different from the base game and the base game you have to beat is simply shit, but the unlocked content isn't (I don't have an example but I'm sure there's at least one) just for giggles let's say the only way to pay Atari's Adventure is to first beat E.T., that would be awful.

So I'll make my own shortlists

Good/acceptable

- any unknown/unadvertised content

- advertised content that is clearly advertised as unlockable

Unacceptable/bad

- content that's expected from the get-go (be it expected from previous entries or advertised as base content)

- known/advertised content that is markedly better than the tasks required to unlock it

- anything that asks for real money either optionally or as a requirement

Specifically when it comes to methods of attainment there can be a huge variance of what's acceptable such as 100% completing a game, collecting all of a specific thing, or playing the game in a specific way (e.g. on a paddle board in the rain), which could be acceptable or could be shit depending on how quality actually doing those tasks is. Typically in game shops with in game currency gathered as a point system or at a steady rate at specific intervals (hundred bucks for each completed level) are acceptable.

Real money to unlock shit, for me, is absolutely unacceptable. DLC I judge case by case and ideally it's like a new, non physical version of Corkscrew Follies or AoE Conquers, but I'll stop right there on DLC and treat it as a separate subject.

I consider no list that I made complete

Unlock costumes and characters

Fuck DLC for ruining DOA