/v/ - Video Games

If you have to ask, you haven't yet ascended. Study them

>>13778525

I got that far and just quit, so I can't answer your question.

>>13778591

Oh shit, I never even thought about doing it like that. I was thinking the best thing to do was try to separate everything as much as possible, which was hard because everything always ended up tangled together.

>>13778819

>he doesn't use trains as a main bus

>>13778810

>It's good practice to always have excess input of raw mined materials because any bottleneck will slow everything downstream of it.

Wow, maybe if you're a normalfag faggot who doesn't like to optimize things. Do you even autism son?

>>13778843

I don't need trains until I start to expand.

The best way to "beat" factorio, is to have multiple of massive specialized factories connected to each other by trains.

one producing only commonly used intermediate products (circuits, gears. etc), second only for science packs and last for everything else.

>>13779351

What is the blue science pack recipe now anyway? And did those lazy hacks seriously just ripoff that shitty landfill mod to resolve the serious problem with bodies of water in the game rather than come up with something that requires actual game design like barge or something? Should we expect more of this ripping-off-mods bullshit that killed Minecraft?

>>13779848

TOS of the game, or the mod platform says all mods belong to the company. Basically Bethesda bullshit.

>>13780056

what server?

>>13780343

Just me and my qt friend's.

>>13780056

>>13780384

>you're still around

jesus

>>13778525

You'll always need more space than you think, so don't slap your furnaces down right next to your ore extraction and don't slap your factory down right next to your furnaces. When you get to Roboports/Construction Robots and sufficient numbers of construction robos + robot booster tech rebuilding your base becomes painless, but before that you best have a lot of extra room to scale up your factory planned in.

>>13779848

A real solution would be a great, but a shitty hack that works right now is good enough for now I suppose.

>>13781116

Not the case anymore. Now entire thing from terminal to terminal counts as a single entity.

>>13781512

that hasn't happened yet. it got pushed back to 0.16

>>13778525

>How much autism is required to make all these super efficient, clean production lines I see other people make?

Surprisingly little. There's programs and shit for getting ratios right.

>>13795422

>Carefully separating all your factories into sensible and efficient purposeful production areas

>Not combining everything into one giant factory that has a billion items constantly whipping by on belts and whose collective noise of all those pounding assemblers shakes the ground and leaves all biters within a hundred miles trembling in fear, whenever you grab a stack of level 3 modules and the whole fucking thing kicks into gear like the awakening of an enraged Cthulhu

It's like you're not even playing the same game.

>>13798138

thia, i embrace my chaotic ways too

>>13778958

>He doesn't have enough exchangers

You need 48 exchangers for two reactors running at the same time.

I am tempted to get to the point where mining is automatically built across the world in chunks, digging up whatever it can, sending it back to be sorted, and then processed.

IT MUST BE AUTOMATED

I enjoy a good spaghetti factory. Currently in the middle of my first nuclear update factory and I am unsure how I manged to get yellow automated. It works, but it's pretty slow. My constant problem is having enough iron plate throughput.

>>13798625

>I am tempted to get to the point where mining is automatically built across the world in chunks,

Someone already beat you to it.

>>13798832

I'm still waiting for a new version of this, but I think the user got eaten by his own creation.

>>13798138

>>13798276

It's not about chaos, it's about efficiency. You're going to run into a deadlock where everything else is bottlenecked by a single thing.

I guess it's ok if you have a small dick and don't care about making a really giant factory.

>>13778525

As someone else who struggles with the game, it takes practice and a keen eye for detail. You basically need to plan for the future the moment you start building your factory, including both production and automation

>>13799885

I wish there was a "move" blueprint, so you don't have to save a new blueprint every time you want to move something.

>>13799933

>I'm trying out Bobs+Angel+ScienceCostTweaker+RSO mods

May God have mercy on your soul, wow. I'm only up to about 100 hours, and those mods don't seem really FUN, just more tedious. Maybe I don't have the required autism.

>>13799947

The old school blueprints worked great for this, tbh. I miss being able to clear a blueprint without discarding it.

>>13799951

I'm up to 100 hours with bob+angel+10x science cost+expensive recipes. I just got blue science packs going.

I bet it gets fun when you get construction robots.

>>13799874

I watched some of this series, and it helped a LOT.

I hate it when biters build their nests right next to my train tracks. I'm gonna disable biter expansion in my next playthrough.

>>13778525

just spaghetti until you get the flying robots and then you never have to worry about making anything look good ever again

>>13778525

>he doesn't know how to chain labs

Put a line of labs picking packs from a line, then put another line of labs behind them. The inserters can take packs from the first line and transfer them to the 2nd.

>>13799874

Not really, just plan a direction to expand everything to.

e.g. power is at the south, keep it expandable to the south, main bus goes north, use the right side of it for processing and keep the left side expandable.

>>13799933

You get logistics at blue science. It's not that bad. I have a Deathworld Bobs/Angel/RSO but it gets a bit boring after logistics bots solve everything.

What's a good, comfy height for a ribbon world?

>>13801132

You should have split off the coal lines into a branch for each side of the furnaces (so like the ore belt is sandwiched by two coal belts) simply so when you upgrade to electric furnaces you can get rid of the coal belts and have room for them without having to remove anything else.

Unless, of course, you intend to never use electric furnaces, and just burn a fuckton of coal through the entire game. In which case, I salute you! That would be a fun challenge.

>>13801400

>every kind of item I want manufactured made at a different place

There was a let's play series I was watching for a while (called Factorio Towns, I think) where the player was attempting to do something similar to this. It resulted in a lot of catch-22 difficulties such as: he wanted to set up an area to make military weapons, but in order to do that he needed to clear many biter nests, but he couldn't do that because he was too weak without the weapons…

>>13803039

>Unless, of course, you intend to never use electric furnaces, and just burn a fuckton of coal through the entire game. In which case, I salute you! That would be a fun challenge.

Electric furnaces are actually worse than Steel furnace if you a burning coal in a boiler. You lose 50% of your efficiency that way and have idle drain. It's only efficient if you are 100% solar/nuclear, and even then it's not really worth it until you have modules, and when you have modules you'll tear apart everything to put beacons in there.

>>13803337

>COAL GLORIOUS COAL

That actually sounds fun… use coal everywhere you can- using coal liquefaction as your only source of oil once you can. (AKA must unlock the tech asap, and stop using wells once you do)

As for weapons you go with anything coal based like grenades, mines, etc. Where it is possible to use coal, YOU DO.

>>13803358

There are people who don't use coal liquefaction for most of their stuff?

I've done huge bases with multiple oil field running at max module capacity and its still just a drip compared to what you want to produce. You'd have to go really, really far away from the starting position to get enough from drained oil fields.

>>13803468

I mean I'm running nuclear and my base isn't so massive yet but I'm still on the first oil field. Been making yellow science.

>>13803337

Electric furnaces become efficient with Efficiency 1 modules, and that's a lot earlier than the beacon & module fiesta. I really like completely upgradable layouts, too - something about that just tickles my autism the right way, and that's what the game is all about after all.

I plan on building a megasmelter with 2800 furnaces in it, continuously fed from 40 blue belts. Its smelting capacity is 1600 plates per second, 5.76 million per hour. It's gonna use 504 megawatt of power for smelting alone, so electric power is out of the question, it's gonna run on coal. Last time I tried it I didn't account for train handling time and wound up with train moving in and out of the station stalling the process - chests were emptied to belts faster than full vagons came for unloading. So this time I intend to have 2 unloading stations in parallel, feeding to the same belts. That way there's even a bit of buffer available.

So basically it produces 40 blue belts worth of iron plates. Which is fairly adequate, considering that factory module that makes one blue processor per second takes two blue belts of iron plates on the input.

>>13804238

Efficiency modules in general are really just a waste of time and effort. You don't want them late game (only production and speed modules are good) and their construction cost is fairly significant.

e.g. 2 Eff 1 modules cost around 115 raw resources. They save about 30W or so. 115 coal would give you 460 MJ of power, enough to run the furnace for over 4 hours. And usually you're running out of Iron before coal.

How does one play a pirated copy in multiplayer?

>>13804443

By assembling a crew of fellow pirates.

>>13804449

I have this, but when trying to host a game it asks me to login. I made a fagtorio account but it tells me I dont have the game

>>13801466

What really sucks is when behemoths hang around on the rails and block a train, shutting down the entire track. At this point I don't bother with outposts, I just expand wall and massacre anything in the annexed area.

>>13804338

>Efficiency modules in general are really just a waste of time and effort.

I found them useful in my current run. God damn angel buildings costing 1.5 MW apiece while I'm still fucking around with steam engines.

>>13804612

You know you could just build roadstones and ayyliens will not set up hives near them, nor will randomly attack them.

>>13804338

I feel like they're useful enough in not fully developed factories, you're usually going to have some drill or assembler or smelter to slot them in and keep getting payoffs, in the worst case you can always recycle them into a Power Armor 2. Saves some of the effort of xeno defense as well.

>>13781512

>>13783783

what witchcraft is this he's planning? because i fucking hate roboshits cluttering up my skies.

>>13803337

>Electric furnaces are actually worse than Steel furnace if you a burning coal in a boiler

It makes me very happy to hear this. My last factory ran 100% on steam (I never made a solar panel until it was time for the rocket) with electric furnaces, and by endgame I needed more trains bringing in coal than for freaking copper. It was part of the challenge because several times I didn't catch coal shortages until too late, and the entire factory suffered a power-failure-spiral (and immediate biters-eating-through-the-walls, forcing me to go back to an earlier save to fix the issue before it got out of control. Next time I'll be smarter: I'll rig up buffer chests for coal to a switch, so that if it drops below half-full it'll immediately cut power to all the smelters and sound an alarm.

In any case, the reason most people switch to electric furnaces is because it reduces pollution. I'm fairly sure that coal burned in a furnace pollutes more than coal burned in a boiler.

>>13804678

Using "victory poles" to prevent biters from spawning in that area was patched out. Now, if you've got something where the biters want to migrate to and set up a new base, they WILL attack and destroy whatever it is, even if it's just a length of track.

>>13804808

Summed up here: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-176

>>13783343

>>Putting cables on the bus

Why would you do that? Why would you ever do that?

You don't reduce complexity or space usage, if one copper plate makes TWO copper wires, then you're losing density on your line by transporting copper wires instead of copper plates. And the other reason to put things on belts is that it reduces your input complexity (if a factory needs green chips and steel for example, you can either pull green chips and steel off your line, or you can pull iron, copper, and steel of your line) and since copper to wire is 1 -> 1 material you don't gain anything there either.

>>13804991

because it lets you keep your assemblers in a straight line with no spaces in between, the way god intended.

>>13805029

But you can do adjacent tiling with sets of assemblers as well!

>>13804612

>I found them useful in my current run. God damn angel buildings costing 1.5 MW apiece while I'm still fucking around with steam engines.

Are you not spamming out at least a little solar power? I've never come close to running out of coal before running out of iron, so I imagine coal would only be a problem with really lopsided starting resources.

Also you should either be turning your coal into carbon before using it or doing algae farms and making wood bricks. Latter is obviously better but a bit cheesy IMO, real life power plants are not fueled by algae except in some theoretical future concepts which wouldn't be a red tech.

>>13804751

You'd always rather have a prod module IMO, it can be recycled into a prod 3. Coal is just not the limited resource normally, more iron or copper > saving coal unless you want to completely avoid both nuclear and solar.

The only reason I can see using them is in far-off bases where you don't want excess pollution, but even then just throw down a bunch of laser turrets and a roboport with 50 repair packs, it'll last forever.

>>13804903

>It was part of the challenge because several times I didn't catch coal shortages until too late, and the entire factory suffered a power-failure-spiral (and immediate biters-eating-through-the-walls, forcing me to go back to an earlier save to fix the issue before it got out of control. Next time I'll be smarter: I'll rig up buffer chests for coal to a switch, so that if it drops below half-full it'll immediately cut power to all the smelters and sound an alarm.

Ehh, yuck. Getting a better primary source of power than coal is always a priority as soon as you rely on laser turrets IMO. They suck up power like a motherfucker. At the very least you want to run solar in day and wire boilers to only run when the accumulators are running dry.

>In any case, the reason most people switch to electric furnaces is because it reduces pollution. I'm fairly sure that coal burned in a furnace pollutes more than coal burned in a boiler.

Looking at the numbers, it's Steel (3.6) vs. Electric (0.9 base + 180 KW of power (1/10th of a boiler = 2.77) = 3.66, so the Electric produces slightly more pollution unless I'm missing something. Also keep in mind the idle drain vs. burners that consume zero fuel idle.

How do you nerds generate enough iron or even green chips to fill these busses?

I usually play solo. I want to see how you guys manage getting raw materials from the land.

>>13805260

A lot of people play with RSO, which is a mod that makes ore patches fucking huge but much more spread out, so you can easily maintain a full 16 belts of iron or copper ore using a rail network.

>>13805445

See I do that and I keep running out of ore too fast. I researched a bunch of mining productivity levels, so I figure I'll try spreading the miners out to prolong the time they are mining, since each one can drain a patch pretty quick.

>>13805461

There's no shame in bumping up your ore richness. Ore richness also automatically goes up the further from the center of the map you travel. Apparently you crash landed on literally the least mineral-rich place on the planet. Eventually you'll get into the billions of ore if you go far enough.

I saw someone playing a ribbon world where the map was only like 12 tiles tall and infinitely wide. Tried it myself but as soon as I got robots it became basically the same. Interesting with belts only though. Fucks any semblance of a main bus though.

>>13805579

>Apparently you crash landed on literally the least mineral-rich place on the planet.

Also the least xenos rich.

>>13805678

>Also the least xenos rich.

Fairly certain the entire world is xeno-uniform. It just appears to be denser when you start exploring because the biters are still active a bit out into the FoW and expand their bases. Past that ring the bases are the same density as at game start.

I think I'd like a train car that functions at a roboport. Would be fun to aid in rapid expansion.

>>13805956

Has anyone made a whole base around a single sushi belt? That's something I would try there.

>>13806253

I saw some people make sushi belts for their labs to deliver science packs but I never saw why. I was sure it would just get clogged with the stuff being produced the most.

>>13805956

>12 seems too luxurious though.

The rocket silo is 9x10 so you could go as small as 10.

>>13806416

the whole point is to design them so they don't get clogged.

i also don't see why people use them for labs, far easier to chain them together with inserters.

>>13806253

i was thinking of doing dumb stuff with trains and parked cars

>>13806451

how are you planning on walking past it?

>>13806478

no reason to walk past it i reckon, one would just put it at the end of their base.

i wonder if squeak through works with map edges though.

>>13778525

Give me some Factorio mods recommendations

>>13807484

Also, is that chest buffer to curb fluctuations a crutch? Not sure I pay enough attention to raw resource input.

Also meant 'all the time', not sure how I managed that one.

>>13807484

It helps give certain lines more priority. You can build smaller splitter groups for less important production and bigger ones for higher priority like circuits. A larger amount of splitters gives a production line a larger pool of resource to draw from in case you start running low.

>>13778525

Don't.

Trust me, the game is at it's most fun when you're tangling spaghetti around.

>>13806500

Xander Mod.

inb4 tubed

>>13807484

>any tips?

At some point you're going to have to rebuild that entire factory from the ground up to allow enough room for future expansion. I always used to do it at the point of making blue science because of the leap to oil processing, but now that they've changed the recipes I'm not sure what would be a good time.

Either way, just start stockpiling a shitton of belts, inserters, and assemblers for when the time comes. To give you an idea how much more room you need: see how you have one refinery right now? By endgame you'll probably need at least ten.

Is there a snow biome?

>>13778819

Roboports are great, but when I played they just felt like the end of the game. The cool thing about this game is scaling things up, from the smallest coal fired drill to a huge factory, and that point it just stopped scaling at all. I want to see an RTS mode after that. That would be really great.

>>13809655

Get alien biomes mod.

>>13809727

Hopefully the mentioned dlc that's sort of planned after 1.0 will focus more on an end game goal. From what I can tell, .16 is going to be mostly optimization and new ui

>>13809987

Best change for .16 is that changing mods won't clobber blueprints.

It's not hard. find a relatively empty area or make one. Layout your factory for It's intended purpose. Fiddlefuck with it until it is perfect. Set up automated defense and start piping in resources. Your chemical factory pretty much should only have one layout for max efficiency.

I wanna make a lot of specialized factories connected by a rail network, but I'm not sure how exactly to divide everything. Would it be viable to make a separate factory for every single thing you make?

>>13810533

That would probably be doable, if chaotic and kind of a logistic nightmare, but as far as I understand that's the entire point of the exercise. Sketch out how that factory would have to roughly look like on paper if you're unsure.

>>13810533

>Would it be viable to make a separate factory for every single thing you make?

It's already a nightmare to put every single thing on a bus it would be even worse to have separate factories for everything.

>>13810533

>Would it be viable to make a separate factory for every single thing you make?

Kinda? At the start of your main bus you can have basic components being made and feed them in, having belts just for circuits or gears etc that are used in lots of different things. If you have a train connecting the place it's made and the place it's used, you want the train to carry it in the most space efficient form.

For green circuits, they take 1.5 copper plates and 1 iron plate to make and stack to 200 (where plates only stack to 100). So there you're saving 3 item slots per item by delivering circuits instead of copper and iron plates. If all of the iron and copper being mined in that outpost is going to be made into green circuits, then you should definitely do all the manufacturing over there.

Same goes for gears that take 2 iron plates per gear and stack to 100. Transporting them as gears instead of plates will let you move twice as much each trip as opposed to iron plates.

It doesn't make too much difference for your organisation if you're loading everything onto a main bus but it does have the downside that you will have to make sure each of those outposts stays supplied with enough ore to keep running. Even if you find a spot with iron and copper to make circuits, one of those ores is going to run out first and the whole thing will stop because of it. If you have a central processing factory and all of your outposts just collect resources and deliver it to your main factory, you can strip every outpost clean without worrying about which ore runs out first or what to do with it when one set of ore is too low to continue effective production.

>>13805040

>as soon as you rely on laser turrets

Only faggots rely on laser turrets. Gun turrets are both statistically superior and cooler.

>>13813305

running them all around your big ass base with all the inserters and massive ammo belt isn't ups efficient.

>>13813305

Too bad flamethrower turrets are so clumsy, those seem fun to use.

>>13810402

This setup is for homosexuals, real men use wires to build an automatically adjusting system that produces anything in whatever quantity you need and then turns the overflow into rocket fuel.

>>13813387

They are. One factory I had, my main defense was flamethrower turrets behind a self-rebuilding minefield. Good times.

>>13813413

This

>>13813305

>norange

Also, is there a mod similar to Angel's Infinite Ores that makes ores never completely vanish, but makes them gradually reduce yield down to about 1%?

I hate the idea of having to scrap a massive mining operation and all of the spaghetti attached to it, but I also like the idea of constantly having to find new sources of spaghetti to add to the pot.

>>13813603

You do know how to do a belt balancer right? Because that red science thing is really triggering my autism

>>13813630

I've never learned to use wires or anything like that. I've always done things purely through belts, splitters and underpasses.

Is there any in-game tutorial that teaches you how to do everything step by step, or do I have to take an electronics course?

>>13813603

Download blueprint books.

https://factorioprints.com/view/-KdDy33xxo8bNcEuP7CR

>>13813657

This link leads to nothing.

>>13813660

Weird, it's not loading for me now either. Guess the site's broken.

>>13813686

Oh yeah, I do that all the time. I didn't know it had a name.

I actually do that on my red belts there, I just do it multiple times and then string the belts around because I'm the bad kind of autistic and I like my belts to be full on both sides from the very top all the way down.

>>13813660

https://pastebin.com/rsGRVg3s

blueprint menu -> import string -> paste

>>13813704

Yeah it makes life waaaay easier. Here's the science one I'm using since the blueprint site seems to still be broken.

https://pastebin.com/2BwCZV9m

>>13813919

Wow, this stuff's a lot more efficient looking than anything I've ever made myself. I'm definitely going to be using some of these to ramp up older tiers as I progress, but I'll keep muddling through first since trying to figure this stuff out is so much fun.

someone draw porn out of conveyor belts

>>13814424

>4 stack inserters looking over a belt

>"Bet you've never been fully compressed before, huh?"

>>13813919

>tileable green science blueprint

>place it and build it out to have a look

>work out where the inputs are

>some belts that appear to do nothing at all on the right hand side

>doesn't include a circuit board loop as part of it

Wouldn't a blueprint to build something necessarily include every single component in the production chain? Not even mad, just a little surprised it left out such a big chunk.

Gonna tie a big bow of circuit boards around this neat little rectangle of green science.

>>13814458

>Bunch of belts to a lab

>"Have you ever experienced taking seven different science packs, at the SAME TIME?"

Pirate fag here. What's the difference between official and torrented copy? I used to own the game but it's been a few years and I have a new rig and Steam's cancer.

>>13815221

I think you can get a steam free version from the dev's site.

>>13815309

Yes but I already bought the game before. Why would I put money into the same product twice? Also Mod DRM is cancer.

>>13815350

Just like buy the game. Stop being a faggot.

>>13815394

I already did nigger. The devs aren't worth giving money to twice.

Does this game have an end goal, levels and so on, or is every game just randomly generated map and you build as far as you can?

>>13815350

Nigger if you bough it already you should be able to download it again.

>>13815221

>What's the difference between official and torrented copy?

Th versions tend to get updated pretty well for the torrents. Also the official forums have the release notes really well organised so you can just go on there and find out what version you're looking for and do a torrent search for the most recent one.

Generally I don't bother with anything other than keeping up with the major versions as they've always been bug free as far as I can tell.

>>13815439

Randomly generated build as far as you can. Goal is to launch fish into space.

>>13815441

Where? I've been yo their site.

>>13815452

Fair enough. I just havn't been up to date I guess. What's the current version?

>>13815477

to*

>>13815460

>inserters taking things from belts

Holy shit anon don't do that unless you have logistic bots. Route the supplies so you have an unbroken chain from digging them up to manufacturing.

If you're running from chest to chest to keep your factory going you're doing it wrong.

>>13815482

>if you have logistic bots

i cant into oil and i thought i was supposed to use belts

>>13815513

Don't have the login info. It's been a few years remember?

>>13815514

Bots are a mid/late game thing that carry things from logistic chests to other logistic chests. I still use belts for everything.

Best advice I can give with oil is to have your pumps, whichever that first massive building is called, and the chemical plants far apart from each other. In different directions if you can with tanks in between. Stops things from clogging up and spaghetti-ing too hard.

>>13815536

You could probably get them if you didn't use throwaway email otherwise you are fucked.

>>13815460

Just ship everything to a dedicated liquid storage area and take it from there to wherever it's needed.

>>13815569

It wasn't throw away but it's long since been abandoned. Either way there's a reason i'm asking these specific questions.

>>13815482

>he doesn't run nuclear reactors out of a wooden box

there's plenty things where it's okay to manually huck stuff into a chest.

>>13815460

Move everything but your chemical plants about a thousand feet away from the rest of the base. Then you'll have room.

>>13815789

>Not having at least 4 reactos

what are you doing

>>13816107

looks normal

your underground belt is feeding only the left lane, the other belt is feeding the right lane. it alternates which belt it's taking from and which belt it's picking up from at every item, so a stray item going through will cause it to flip.

>>13816107

The splitter splits every other item. If you have two perfectly balanced (compressed) lines, they'll keep going to the same side. Throwing 1 extra item in shifts the balance.

>>13816209

>those power poles

noice.

>those mines

are they even any good? I always thought mines were too expensive.

>>13815221

>i own the game but i fell for the anti-steam memes so i can't download it now even though i could if i wasn't so autistic lol

>>13816107

Optimize that disgusting shit. What the fuck are you doing?

>>13818361

its like a christmas tree but you forgot the star!

>>13818451

First fish in space though.

>>13818156

>the anti-steam memes

>being this much of a good goy

Stay cucked steam goer.

>>13818099

If you have coal and plastics, they're super cheap. Then constructions drones place and replace them. As long as you get the research for (explosive damage?) they can even kill the hugest biters very quickly, and they have AOE. Most of the time, packs of biters didn't even get 2-3 mines in.

Also yeah, the purpose of that second factory was to both have a perfect power field (no gaps, so I could place anything almost anywhere) and to build the manufacturing itself inside the main bus. All lanes are spaced so they can accommodate an assembler, and an inserter on top and bottom. It ran into starvation issues though on chips because I simply didn't have the production of it, but other than that it was pretty good.

>>13819425

>all of that wasted space

>>13809727

Construction bots kind of are an RTS mode now that you can move the camera around and place blueprints in the satellite view. I think the issue with scaling up is that pretty quickly the combat element becomes a trivial game of casually clearing out nests of biters with laser turrets, even full saturation mode becomes trivial to the point of non existence long before the factory part of the game becomes trivial. It's an easy problem to solve because any and all expansion can be shut down by just a one tile wide wall and some laser turrets, but I think if more enemy types and variety were added, there would also need to be more ways to deal with them. I think that's where the RTS part could really come to fruition.

Well, I played for about 3 hours now, no tutorials except what I touched on here in the thread.

I am completely hopeless on setting anything up on automation, only thing I've managed to do was get water electricity through steam from a nearby lake to power four labs, while I keep burner mining for iron, copper and coal and emptying plates as needed while crafting Science Packs 1 & 2 to research shit manually. I'm pretty lost on how to even start, I got one Assembly Unit but I have no idea what the fuck to do with it, so I've just been upgading weapons and research speed… The whole idea of beginning automation and where does it end gives me this feeling of nausea, like it's all too grand for me.

>>13820277

Go to a psychiatrist, soon.

>>13820277

Play the campaign it should ease you in the game.

>>13819793

There's no way you can use oil faster than it unloads with pumps. My train spends most of it's time sitting there waiting for the oil to be used up.

>>13819895

I just told you to give everything more space than you think you need. The map is infinite you know.

>>13819425

>because the inserter can use it's stack bonus without waiting

I was about to say they changed this a while back so stacks could be put on a belt but realised you're right. I'd be saving the amount of time it takes for each item to move out of the way of the next one per arm movement. Would add up pretty quick. Might have to change that but that's an extra 2 tiles of space to get it from there to a belt and I'm not going to move my entire supply of incoming iron and copper by logistic bot.

>>13820277

>The whole idea of beginning automation and where does it end gives me this feeling of nausea

This might not be the game for you.

Try to make everything run on electricity and make the products travel by belt to where they're needed from the miner through smelters and assemblers to the science labs. Once you get an unbroken chain going it'll take care of itself and you can focus on upscaling by adding more at each stage along the chain. Embrace the belt spaghetti when you start and when you've figured out what you need to do but it gets too crowded and too messy to do anything with, restart the game and try again neatly. Don't be afraid of restarting. Abandoning a self sufficient base and starting a new one elsewhere also works but if you do I can't stress enough how important it is for sanity to put it out of your mind entirely and let it rot rather than skipping back to steal from the old base.

>>13821141

>I just told you to give everything more space than you think you need. The map is infinite you know.

There's a difference between leaving usable space in between sections and leaving unusable space between buildings that you have no reason not to squish together.

It does matter once you get bots.

>>13822017

ah yes, all those bots that get involved in refining oil and moving liquids around.

>>13822040

>not using bots exclusively for fluids

>>13778525

The vast majority of the most efficient designs were made up by one person or a small group of people that everyone else just copies. Just watch said people long enough and you will tap into your inner good boy

>>13822188

so how do i oil dubs man

>>13822188

>The vast majority of the most efficient designs were made up by one person or a small group of people that everyone else just copies

>people unironically believe this

just like make factory

>>13778525

>25 gold

>never goes on sale

Sucks, looks pretty decent.

>>13821700

Abandoning and starting over is good advice. I nuked my first three factories before I got one good enough to launch a rocket (and it took like three hours to build up the rocket parts…). Once you get to a certain level of spaghetti, it's just not going to get any better.

>>13823060

I have to ask why the hell you need walls on a bus. The bricks, okay because they're used for making furnaces… but even still, I'd rather just bus raw stone and make it into bricks nearby where it's needed.

>>13823346

its my first base plz no bully…. i want to build a massive self building wall across the land witch from what i read ill need robots and i kinda assumed a shit ton of walls.

>>13823346

>but even still, I'd rather just bus raw stone and make it into bricks nearby where it's needed.

Does anything other than rails even need stone? (Unless you're making boilers I guess).

>>13823060

You need at least two tiles between rows or you can't turn into an underground belt. Pretty sure an underground belt reaches 4 tiles but mine are always 2 belts wide for ease of splitting.

>all those boolets down the bottom

that's more like it.

>>13823371

Bots take from logistic chests so it can just get slapped straight into a chest without going onto the bus.

>>13818361

You can launch spess rockets? What do they do?

>>13824761

win the game if you put a satelite n them

>>13824771

Oh. I thought you might start making factories in space and mine asteroids and moons and shit.

>>13823405

Only rails, and bricks for walls and furnaces, but you need a LOT of rails. I find it easy to just dedicate one line of the bus to half stone and half raw iron (for making concrete).

On that note, it always annoyed the shit out of me that you use raw iron to make concrete, and not iron sticks (aka rebar). Also, it should be using steel to make rails, not iron sticks; nobody needs a rail network who doesn't already have steel production going so it's even senseless for gameplay balancing.

>>13824777

This was an original idea for an endgame (kinda like a new-game-plus) but never got beyond the concept stages. At this point, I'm positive that there won't be any more big changes to the game; the devs seem like they are ready to polish the game up and consider it finished with a couple more small updates.

>>13822188

>The vast majority of the most efficient designs were made up by one person or a small group of people

Crazy how this is true for literally everything in life.

>>13825083

You're going to love the yellow ones, then.

Well, I did as was suggested and played through the campaign a little, go to the second chapter of the second campaign after building a car to get there. It's still pretty overwhelming, I think the game makes too big of a jump from your first little attempts at automation in the demo/tutorial campaign, and when you start the second one BOOM you have a base ready chucking out tons and tons of shit to be assembled or not into boxes and it's just so fucking overwhelming again where to even begin.

For what it's worth, the 1st mission (build a car) took me 1h 45m, and while I did get multiple assemblers pushing out red science packs like hotcakes, I didn't once again even know where I should begin with to start putting out green ones (Inserter+Transport). How long should it take if you get everything working right?

Also to those who said it's not for me, maybe not yet, I'm a slow learner, but the graphics, the atmosphere, everything just gives me that Command & Conquer itch somehow and I fucking love it, even if I'm playing "wrong" for the most part.

>>13822040

Fluids are first thing you should be putting in a logistics network. Very dense in terms of what a bot can transport, very awkward to move, produced in a place that can't be easily moved next to the what needs it (since you want it expandable).

>>13823060

>busing science

>busing walls

>busing inserters and belts

wtf?

You bus things that are often used in other products. This means Iron/copper/steel plate, the plastic and batteries. Stone isn't needed until fairly late in the game. Sometimes you can bus things like gears too, or just make them on-site since they are iron.

>>13825083

Bronze is easy to smelt. Batteries is just plastic and sulfuric acid. Engine is normal shit. Circuit boards are a PITA but you should have it 75% done already.

Blue science gets you logistics bots in bobs/angels which makes dealing with angels petrochem massively simpler since you just bottle it up and let a bot take it where its needed.

>>13825738

i have gotten to oil so i'm at needing plastic. and iv'e moved my science facilities once already in the transition to green & red shit and ill move it again when i find out how to make the next two tiers. if i don't abandon this base for a peaceful world so biters don't make me build a retarded wall of being in the fucking way.

>>13815936

>>13815460

this, this what what I did in my current map. I have a dedicated oil processing area, and train shit in and out. one of the trains drops right into my main bus farther down the line where the chem shit starts getting necessary.

>>13827012

well i was going to set up a rail system but i havent touched it yet wanted to get my oil running first so i could robots

>>13827787

>Has anyone ever made a factory that busses every single resource in the game to the point that it puts out at least four full belt segments worth of even the most complex product per second? I wonder how large such a factory would even have to be. The central belt line alone would probably be a few screens tall.

Would it require Magnasanti levels of ascended autism, or just a shitload of time and patience?

4 full belts of each rocket part? That's a bit insane. Belts of nuclear reactors and shit? Why?

Obviously it would be possible, you can blueprint entire bases and just keep building them, then merge a bus line somewhere. You'd need a supercomputer to run it though.

>So I decided to put myself through hell, and install bob's and angel's and yuoki's and some others that supposedly make power generation more difficult and make nights last twice as long as days so you can't rely on SP/accumulator spam unless you take it to an abstract level.

Is Yuoki's good? Looked kind of meh and really ugly from the mod page. I was going to start a Deathworld Bobs/Angels, should I include it?

Also does anyone use ScienceTweaker? It seems to be broken with Bobs (labs aren't set up properly). Anyone have a fix?

>Also I'm paranoid as fuck because the zerglings are more active than they've ever been and I don't know if it's a mod causing it or just random chance. I used to see maybe 5-10 per pack, but they've been attacking in waves of 30-50. Good times.

It's entirely based on pollution. However if you are at low evolution factor you'll get more smaller bugs rather then fewer big ones. Evolution actually decreases the overall amount of bug HP your turrets need to chew through (though their armor goes up, which makes normal bullets shit).

>>13827862

>Evolution actually decreases the overall amount of bug HP your turrets need to chew through (though their armor goes up, which makes normal bullets shit).

When you get to behemoths you should have flame throwers anyway. I think they got nerfed slightly but they're still overkill for unmodded alien attacks.

>>13827862

>Is Yuoki's good?

I'm probably not the best one to judge, since I'm still a pretty low-level at this game.

Some of his icons are ugly or obviously placeholders. His actual buildings are okay looking, and his cars are comically trash looking.

I like his turbines (2x2 steam engines that generate a little less power), and I like other things he's added for the gameplay factor, such as his wood briquettes and packed wood briquettes - basically taking wood and compacting it into stackable fuel units that contain 5x and 25x as much fuel as a single stack of wood respectively.

They're a good alternative to coal if you've got bob's greenhouses churning out wood, since each packed wood briquette lasts about 4x longer than a single piece of coal. It's probably useless later on when you can pipe in actual fuel, but I've not played any of these mods beyond the early game yet.

>>13827885

Flamethrowers are a waste IMO, laser turrets destroy everything just fine and power is basically free. Routing fluids is a PITA.

>>13827909

Bob's greenhouses are basically cheating as far as I'm concerned. Angel's has its own way better methods of creating wood (which have their own process to make them into wood blocks that have 25 MJ for burning).

>>13827976

>Bob's greenhouses are basically cheating as far as I'm concerned. Angel's has its own way better methods of creating wood

Yeah, the output from a simple loop is kind of high. I'm still digging through this stuff and seeing what does what, so I'll probably end up switching over to the angel's method as well once I locate it.

>>13828016

For wood boards you go through green algae (which can also make the wood blocks), for resin there's a specific process.

You'll also want a big algae farm for plastic. Getting plastic from oil sucks, if you get it from bio you can almost ignore petrochem.

>native attacks getting intense to the point where all i'm doing is running around repairing/resupplying/replacing turrets

>decide to disconnect the coal lines to the steam engines and shut down the factory for a while so i can build stuff and get laser turrets

>end up spending several hours building things after the pollution goes away

>keep building things until i've exhausted the ENTIRETY of my main bus and any residual iron i could find split off onto different belts

>probably at the very least doubled my factory's power demand in this time

Can't wait to see how much stuff doesn't actually work and how fast the pollution is going to skyrocket from 0 to 9999999999999.

>>13827862

>It's entirely based on pollution

Actually not true. It's based on three things: time, pollution, and how many biter bases you've destroyed. Pollution has the greatest effect, but the others can't be ignored; if you sit around for too long not increasing your pollution, the biters are still going to evolve.

>>13828571

>Pollution has the greatest effect

Destroying spawners increases evolution the most I think.

>>13828571

Evolution is based on those three. Spawning biters is based on pollution. Everything point of pollution absorbed by a spawner is added to their pool, then they spend from the pool to spawn stuff. Evolution simply unlocks new tiers of stuff for them to spawn (at a higher pool cost).

I think the only instance in which biters can spawn without pollution is if you are intruding next to the spawners.

>>13828662

Depends, usually its time for me early game and later it's pollution. You can check by doing /evolution in the console.

>>13828662

You do that pretty rarely compared to pollution though.

>>13824850

>>13830753

Mods? Is there even support to add that to the game? Always thought oxygen would be an interesting resource to keep track of (a fluid) if you were mining out a moon.

>>13831663

You can create new worlds and land at will. Factorissimo does that to create buildings you can walk in to and there's a caves mod that lets you explore underground for ore.

There was an oxygen mod released like half a week ago.

Overall, is the game still solid without any mods or are there some really must-have ones for "ease of use". I don't really want to lower the difficulty or anything, just seems like people using a lot of mods.

>>13832380

It's pretty good. Some people insist on mods that give them longer reach or mark machines that aren't operating, or automatically replace early game stuff with higher tier stuff when marked, but they aren't really necessary, just convenient.

Any tips on the level of the campaign where I arrive on a car and have to build the raildroad up again? I repaired the turrets, got both steam and solar power running, but I again don't really know what to do. Should I disassemble everything that is half-broken in the leftover pieces of the place? Or should I try to keep all of it intact and repair the flow it has with all the fast transport belts and such? Or just ignore it and build my own shit? Just give me a tip on what I should do first, I'm overwhelmed by the choices.

>>13832543

what's the server info and can pirate clients join?

>>13832619

Game is "HadesSupreme's game"

No idea how pirate MP works, I'm guessing not. You can try direct connecting to my IP (73.209.35.116) but you'd need the same mods as me and it's a list of like 20.

>>13832526

Why? Genuinely can't imagine what z-levels would add to this game.

>>13832616

>Should I disassemble everything that is half-broken in the leftover pieces of the place?

Nigger what? You repair and replace that shit. Why would you tear it down? Alternatively drop the campaign because it's pretty shit.

>>13832631

ima guna play multiplayer but basically make it impossible for people to join me.

>>13832653

isn't there some mine craft automation mods that would basically be that?

>>13832660

>>13832616

this, just play the game and ignore the campaign, you'll figure it out.

>>13832631

you can disable verifications on the server so pirate clients can join but ya everyone has to have the same mods, and that's locked down behind the login wall, so you'd have to post all the mods. and all the pirate clients / server have to be running the same version obviously.

>>13832682

Here's my mod list if anyone cares/needs.

It's should be pretty easy to get everything together for non-pirates, in-game mod downloader works well.

>>13832666

It's not like I'm trying to start a multiplayer event or something. It's just a "I started a game and if someone else happens to like bobs/angels they can join and shoot the shit with me".

>>13832724

forgot pastebin link: https://pastebin.com/QmEfRyNF

I just got done setting up blue science packs, i'm currently producing 1 R-G-M-B packs per second. Now radards are starting to pick up enemy bases closing in at an increasing rate, i tried going around in a tank destroying them but like that i get nothing done. How would i go about setting up defenses?

>>13832851

It's called turrets.

>>13832851

Power pole surrounded by laser turrets surrounded by wall.

>>13832851

>i tried going around in a tank destroying them

I usually just run circles around them in a car firing red ammo and throwing grenades, the spawners are actually weaker to machine gun fire than the biters they spawn so just clear those out first. Also, tank can run over spawners pretty easily in a pinch.

For defense, early on you can get by with clusters of 4-6 turrets, behind one or two layers of walls, spaced apart so their fields of fire just barely touch. Later just build a big fat wall with a line of turrets behind and a belt + inserters to supply them with ammo directly from the factory. Add some repair bots and forget the aliens even exist.

>>13833144

Building a giant immovable wall only works until you have to expand to get more resources. Especially now that biters will attack random power poles and rails, distant outposts that are completely surrounded by walls in their own right aren't that feasible.

>>13833162

>Building a giant immovable wall only works until you have to expand to get more resources.

At that point you should have combat robots or personal gear to wipe out nests, so you just build a bigger wall and clear out the undesirables.

>>13833207

That depends entirely on your resource settings. Though if you've already got good robots (the first tier is useless if you ask me) and power armor while still in your starter area, it's clearly way too rich. Usually, I've had to start aggressively expanding and clearing nests by the time I've started with blue science. It's not a matter of the starter ore patches running out by then; it's because they aren't producing enough throughput, so I need at least one if not two additional patches of copper and iron to keep up.

>>13832616

>that level in the campaign

Holy shit nig that level is a lesson in constantly expanding your production facilities.

You need to keep the resources flowing so definitely restore everything over in the far bases and fortify everything. Reroute everything to the main base and get ready to constantly build assemblers for those fucking ammo packs holy shit.

>>13833182

Remember trees are a natural barrier for pollution spread so if you can build on the far side of a forest you'll be good for a lot longer.

Am I crazy, or is the Breakfast Machine beat playing VERY faintly in one of the songs in the soundtrack for this game? I found myself humming it suddenly and wondered why, so I started listening and I can hear it way way way in the background. The tank's engine also sounds like it has the faint sound of a crowd of people talking like a stock sound you'd hear in some visual novel so maybe I'm just schizo.

>>13835049

I wish they make xenos into their own playable counter tbh

What's the appeal of these stupid advanced puzzle/logic games like Factorio or Shenzhen I/O? It just seems more like work than fun to me.

>>13835160

These games obviously aren't for everyone, but the main appeal is the satisfaction you get from optimizing your shit. Some people just like planning and executing ideas, figuring things out by themselves etc.

>>13835160

autism

satisfying patterns

>>13835232

pick 2

>>13835160

It's ok anon it's not your fault you are retarded.

Sale when? I've waited almost two years and nothing.

>>13836481

I'll buy you it now if you want to give me a throw away email to give you the link with

>>13836481

never ever

>>13836481

It's not even finished yet. Don't buy games before their release even if they're good as they are.

If you do buy make sure it's from the dev's site and not from steam.

>>13836481

If you're going to be this much of a miser, just pirate it now.

>>13836541

>It's impossible to get any enjoyment out of an unfinished game, therefore it is worthless

Oh fuck, this entire time everyone in this thread has been doing it wrong!!

>>13836594

He's not wrong. Enjoyment is diminished from the game when it is fully released because you've already seen it in an unfinished state yet still know what to expect. Looking back on it I would have never bought the game for this reason alone. At the very least, not wanting to support early access trends is a very reasonable excuse as to why you wouldn't buy it. Even if the unfinished product is good.

>>13836594

>everyone in this thread has been doing it wrong

true

>>13836594

enjoyment != spending money on unfinished product.

If he wants my money so bad he can release it for real. I'm not going to support this business model because early access is cancer.

>>13836605

He's missed out on hilarities like the negative-amount inserters, though.

>>13833649

Is that a special map gen or something? Your coast is much larger than normal and I can see a bunch of different floor textures.

>>13837860

Ignore the top part of the first image btw, I failed at paint.

>>13837621

it's more than just floor textures. I noticed recently that I drive faster in the car on the desert than I do in the forest. I don't know if that small speed boost applies to walking also.

How the fuck do rail signals work? I did the tutorial and it still doesn't make any sense. I ended up just guessing and getting through it with trial and error. Would have been really nice if it highlighted which rails affect the signal when placing a signal.

>>13838133

It separates tracks into segments that only one train can enter (going one way).

Chain signals are a bit more complex since they check ahead of them for further signals to prevent deadlocks and increase efficiency.

>>13838133

until your realize how they work the easy thing to remember is chain signals go on the entrances to intersections (and everything up until the exit), and regular signals go on the exits. for straight track areas use regular signals the size of the full train or a little more to get more trains on the same track going the same direction.

>>13836605

Early access allows an indie developer to have the budget to complete a game that takes his team five years to finish. If it wasn't for those early shekels, you WOULDN'T GET ANY GAME AT ALL.

If you can't enjoy the finished game because you're incapable of sitting around and waiting for it to be finished, that's not their fault. That's yours for having no patience or self control. It's like a kid that eats the leftover batter from a cake mix, and then complains that he's not hungry anymore when the actual cake is finished

>>13838133

>Would have been really nice if it highlighted which rails affect the signal when placing a signal

This is something that will likely be implemented in the next update. https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-198

That said, it gets easier the more you do it. It helped me a lot to realize that every signals divide a rail section into pieces, and only one train can be on each piece at a time.

>>13839907

>hurr games can't be finished without early access

Never was a problem before. Still not a problem now. We have been over this a million times. Getting paid before you finish the job encourages devs to not finish their work. This is why early access games all enter an endless beta period that keeps adding content and pointless memes to keep the sheqels rolling while not fixing any of the glaring bugs. Then when the interest dies down it gets dropped like the hot shit it became.

Minecraft is the apex example of this: glaring bugs and spaghetti code with new shit added constantly to keep people interested. Then the dev cashes out and leaves it a mess.

>It's like a kid that eats the leftover batter from a cake mix, and then complains that he's not hungry anymore when the actual cake is finished

No you stupid nigger it's like a chef that serves uncooked cake batter and keeps topping it up with chocolate chips as people eat it eternally promising "it'll be cooked later" until everyone is full and he leaves without cooking it.

>>13839907

>If it wasn't for those early shekels, you WOULDN'T GET ANY GAME AT ALL.

Complete bull. It's for people who are incapable of managing their time or aren't willing to find a producer who you can find a good middle ground for what your game should be.

>If you can't enjoy the finished game because you're incapable of sitting around and waiting for it to be finished, that's not their fault

Considering it's how they also make their money I'de say that in a perfect world where people understood that their enjoyment is diminished Early Access wouldn't be a thing.

>It's like a kid that eats the leftover batter from a cake mix

My point is that you shouldn't fucking eat cake mix. Why the fuck would you serve cake mix to your customers anyway?

>>13839218

I started to get it better once I realized you can see the block numbers when mousing over tracks. Much easier once I realized there was a debug option to show that thanks to >>13839907

>>13840211

>people who are incapable of managing their time

Or people who want to actually finish a project

>or aren't willing to find a producer

Nigger what the fuck? WHY would you EVER want to find someone to take all the money for your idea and work, only to give you small royalties, all while fucking you in the ass and making you their bitch so you have to do whatever they say?

>where people understood that their enjoyment is diminished Early Access wouldn't be a thing.

The fuck are you even talking about now?

>>13840315

>WHY would you EVER want to find someone to take all the money for your idea and work,

So you can finish the fucking product? This has been how games have been made since day 1. Just because Zenimax exists doesn't mean you have to use it. Besides that, you're lumping every producer as if they all have the same requests and contracts.

>all while fucking you in the ass and making you their bitch so you have to do whatever they say?

Refuse and find another publisher? It's called finding a middle ground. Not bending over and letting them fuck you in the ass.

>The fuck are you even talking about now?

>"I have no reading comprehension"

I'm saying in aperfect world, Early Access would not exist. You shouldn't have to purchase a product before it's finished in general. More often than not Early Access cancer get's co-opted by the community or jewishness anyway. The fact that Factorio is a decent game is nothing short of a miracle. And even then it still has mod DRM and other shit attached to it. Early Access is cancer and you need to go back.

I hope you early access apologists aren't doing it for free.

>>13840634

tbhfam anyone buying a game that's later patched is on the same footing as early access tards.

>>13840634

I've been burned before by EA because I bought games based on promises and potential. There are EA purchases that I don't regret though, because those games were already worth the asking price to me when I got them. Examples are this game and Besiege, their development could die tomorrow and I would still have gotten my hours out of them. Buying games that aren't already decent is fucking stupid, whether it's called 'early access' or not.

>>13840698

Depends on the context. Patches are fixes to oversights. Early Access is the actual production of the game.

>>13840914

Top input belt stalls because splitters try to take equally from both sides. The middle splitter takes half a belt from the lower splitter and half a belt from the upper one, since it only has one output. Since it feeds a full belt back into the top splitter, the top belt is only drained at half the normal pace.

>>13840933

>complete product

Most games are 80% done on launch.

>>13840986

that wouldn't pull evenly if it were the bottom two belts full though.

>>13840097

>Never was a problem before

Ah yes, because indie games were TOTALLY a thing 20 years ago. Shit like kickstarter and early access are the entire reason you have any options besides AAA.

>chef that serves uncooked cake batter

Still your retarded fault for choosing to eat it.

>shotgun shooting speed 5

I assume you have modules/bots? You should redo your setup to have them dropping into logistics chests that transfer load into a train. Otherwise you're obviously not getting the full output when you load onto belts.

>>13841966

shotgun shooting speed because i'm running out of things to research, i have yet to set up a purple/yellow research packs factory. I don't really use bots nor modules, i was hoping to stick with belts and inserters.

>>13842010

Thanks, that image is exactly what i was looking for. It probably won't be 100% efficient but it'll do for now while i build the other research pack factories.

>>13842164

>recently

Wasn't that half a year ago?

>>13842300

Have there been any other major changes since? Might go looking for a more recent version.

>>13840436

>So you can finish the fucking product?

Or you could just, you know, do it without getting fucked in the ass.

>It's called finding a middle ground. Not bending over and letting them fuck you in the ass.

"Middle ground" is already bending over.

>I'm saying in aperfect world, Early Access would not exist.

Yes, yes, in a perfect world there are infinite resources and everyone has infinite money to do whatever they want, yeah yeah. What does that have to do with anything?

>You shouldn't have to purchase a product before it's finished in general.

And you don't.

Stop sperging out about "m-muh early access" and judge the game on its own merits. You even said yourself it's a decent game, but your autism is too intense for you to leave it at that.

>>13842634

Do you think it's impossible to buy something without taking a loan? That's what I'm getting from all of your arguments: it's impossible to provide capital for an investment. How the hell do you think anything has ever been done in the first place? How the hell do you think businesses even start?

>judge the game on its own merits

No one is saying it's a bad game, we're just not going to buy an unfinished product. He can have our money when he stops using bullshit business practices.

>>13842679

>hurr durrrr just bend over for investors durrrrr just pretend the internet hasn't been created and do everything the shitty old way that doesn't work as well hurdurrrrr

>>13842750

No matter what somebody is going to be getting bent over. And here you are, faggot enough to volunteer for it.

>>13839218

i wonder how many times americans get on multiplayer euro servers and go fullspeed into another train driving on the wrong side of the track.

>>13843619

that seems like a lot of splitters, doesn't that have an ups impact? the way i've been doing it two inserters fill a lane and the lane is then merged. then i use one big balancer on all belts at the end.

>>13842679

>Or you could just, you know, do it without getting fucked in the ass.

It's not my fault you don't know how to do business with producers.

>"Middle ground" is already bending over.

Every game from your childhood did this. You can't make shit without compromise. If not from producers than it's with the people you work with. Stop pretending to know jack about how the industry works.

>What does that have to do with anything?

I perfectly stated it. Early Access is inferior as it gives people a product before it's finished.

>and judge the game on its own merits.

Considering those merits are liable to change it's essentially impossible.

>You even said yourself it's a decent game

I also said it's extremely rare when a decent game is made through Early access. If you're going to defend Early Access you need to understand its inherent flaws. It would have been better if Factorio had been released as a finished product and over time free patches were implemented that added features over time.

>>13844147

>It's not my fault you don't know how to do business with producers.

I know how. It's called not doing it.

>You can't make shit without compromise.

Factorio's dev seems to be doing that pretty well.

>>13844147

I wouldn't have bought this a couple of years ago, but now it's pretty much already a complete product. I can't see what else they can really do with it but continue to optimize performance. They're probably going to tweak balance and add a few more items in the future but both of those are easily done with mods. I don't know I don't ever support early access either, or really buy games ever for that matter, but factorio is the one that seems to be worth it.

actually the big thing they're working on now for 0.16 is hi-res sprites, which is cool i guess, but irrelevant for me because I'm on a toaster and don't even use the high resolution setting on them now.

>>13844261

>I know how. It's called not doing it.

It's often a better alternative to releasing a product before it's finished. People can do well with producers. What often occurs though is manchildren think their read for the world of business and they get fucked over in the end. It's often why you hire somebody who's dealt with this shit before so you can learn how to work with relative freedom.

>Factorio's dev seems to be doing that pretty well.

Wanna name the several dozen other devs that have as well under Early Access? And again it doesn't diminish the fact that they're selling an unfinished product.

>>13844326

It's certainly a diamond in a sea of shit. I think it proves that Early Access can work about as efficient as Kickstarter :^)

>>13844360

FTL, Banner Saga, Shovel Knight, Hyper Light Drifter, Divinity Original Sin 1, Original Sin 2, Darkest Dungeon, Subnautica, Prison Architect, Don't Starve, and Dirt Rally are a few I can think of. There's also Rimworld, even though I don't really like it. Exanima is one of favorite games but that's kinda controversial I guess since it came out of the kickstarter for Sui Generis that still hasn't been delivered.

Also I think Dungeons of Dredmor was early access, but I can't really remember. I think Terraria was too? It's been a while.

>And again it doesn't diminish the fact that they're selling an unfinished product.

Okay, that's fine. I'd be buying the game based on what is available at the moment, not on what is promised. If I bought it.

>>13844360

>>13844506

Oh yeah, and Consortium. That's even having a sequel made now.

>>13844506

>Hyper Light Drifter

>Divinity 1,2

>Darkest Dungeon

I said good games retard. Even so those are Kickstarted and many of them are over the course of what? Half a decade? Many of those games you're making a real jump to quality here. And even then not all of those games were released before they were either finished or generally 90% done.

>I'd be buying the game based on what is available at the moment, not on what is promised.

>not what is promised

>buying a product that has a possibility of being shit in the future

So basically you're buying a product despite the fact that it's liable to be shit? Shovel Knight had SJW pushed into it on King Knight update, as did Subnautica. You going to say you don't regret purchasing it still? Stop buying shit before it's finished. Simple as that.

>>13844506

KSP should probably be considered a success.

>>13844552

Of that list, I haven't played Hyper Light Drifter or Shovel Knight, but Divinity is great what the fuck is wrong with you? Are you too dumb for RPGs or something?

>and many of them are over the course of what? Half a decade?

…Okay? Your point? I don't think any of them took 5 years, but even if they did I still don't see what kind of point you could possibly be trying to make.

>You going to say you don't regret purchasing it still?

I got 40-50 hours out of Subnautica which is well above the 1:1 hours:cost ratio that I need to be satisfied with a purchase. I don't know what you're talking about with Subnautica getting SJW, though. How the fuck is a sandbox game without characters SJW? I haven't played since that disease update and was waiting on the full release to play again.

>>13844562

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

>>13844586

>…Okay? Your point?

In the +5 years of our earth, you managed to push out less than 7 games that are barely above mediocre save maybe 3 of them.

>I got 40-50 hours out of Subnautica which is well above the 1:1 hours:cost ratio that I need to be satisfied with a purchase

And when you could have put an extra 30 in because of the finished content and polished design you'll be kicking yourself over it.

>I don't know what you're talking about with Subnautica getting SJW, though

google your in game model and some of the developers twitter accounts.

In any case you're missing my point. Most games that go through Early Access fail because of it. Either because they can't shill their product appropriately, or because their followers co-opt the project into something else. Early Access completely removes the concept of a singular design. Crowd funded entertainment doesn't work unless the crowd is niche and knows what their doing. And when you become a part of the "crowd" simply by paying a few bucks you suddenly see where everything goes wrong.

>>13842750

>just bend over for investors

literally the opposite of what I'm saying.

>>13843686

>ups impact

You know I've never had a problem with UPS. How bad is your computer, anon?

>>13844370

>51 miners to fill a red belt

that seems like far more than I have in an average station but my belts still get filled. Maybe it's because my loading doesn't use buffer chests so it keeps backing up.

>>13844626

>And when you could have put an extra 30 in because of the finished content and polished design you'll be kicking yourself over it.

I seriously don't know what you're saying here. Are you saying I would have played it longer if it was finished? I can just do that when it's finished. Even if never gets finished why would I be kicking myself? I already said I got enough out of it for the purchase to be worth it.

>google this thing you can't see ingame lol that makes the game bad

Nigger, I really don't give a shit if the devs are faggots as long as they aren't pushing some agenda in-game. Which they aren't.

I'm not missing your point, I'm saying it's stupid. If the game is good, the game is good. End of story. You're the one getting triggered over EA and can't enjoy a good game just because your turbo autism makes you have an aneurysm at the sight of a phrase. Yes, most are shit. So? Don't buy the the shit ones.

>>13844652

>that seems like far more than I have in an average station but my belts still get filled. Maybe it's because my loading doesn't use buffer chests so it keeps backing up.

Probably. Electric miners on most ores produce 0.525 ore per sec, so 51 miners should be 26.775, slightly more than a red belt can handle (26.667). Of course, that all goes out the window when you start researching mining productivity.

>>13844665

>Are you saying I would have played it longer if it was finished?

>are you saying more content allows me to play longer?

Seriously nigger?

>I can just do that when it's finished

Google diminishing returns. You're less likely to play through the game again once it's finished if you've already experienced most of the content.

>>google this thing you can't see ingame lol that makes the game bad

<"lol what's research and shit amaright?"

>which they aren't

They already started. You really have enough faith in them to not go further with it when the game isn't finished yet?

>I'm saying it's stupid. If the game is good, the game is good. End of story.

It rarely is, and because of the way it works it's less likely. And if the game is good, it can still go sour later on.

>You're the one getting triggered over EA and can't enjoy a good game just because your turbo autism makes you have an aneurysm at the sight of a phrase.

I enjoy Factorio. I still pirate it though because you're still supporting a retarded practice.

>Yes, most are shit. So? Don't buy the the shit ones.

You're still supporting a shit method production is the problem.

>>13844732

>Google diminishing returns

I think you need to because clearly you don't understand the concept. I'm not any less likely to play through a game again if I like the game it got a big update. I've done that multiple times with multiple games. Namely Terraria.

The rest of your post is just inane garbage desu.

>>13844749

>I'm not any less likely to play through a game again if I like the game it got a big update.

Actually if you have to repeat the content you are.

>I've done that multiple times with multiple games

And I'm sure you stopped playing it at some point because content wasn't available. I'm sure your impression of playthrough #32 was less impressive than your first. Worse off on that 32nd playthrough you got new content at the very end. Which would have been more impressive later on.

>The rest of your post is just inane garbage desu.

<I have no argument so I'll call it garbage! That'll show him!

kek

Is it normal to have biter raids on your shit once you get into early midgame? I don't have any pollution visible and I've only just finished the Electronics research and they're already trying to destroy my drills like niggers.

>>13846277

Depends how close their spawners are. They shouldn't start showing up until pollution covers them. Did you pick a tiny spawn zone or something?

>>13846277

Biters can only spawn normally if pollution hits them. You might want to keep watching the square they are in to see if it flashes with pollution for a frame.

Otherwise if you have expansion on they can expand next to your base, and if their spawner is right next to your stuff they can spawn free stuff to clear it out. This requires them to be pretty close though.

>>13846346

I'm running a default game, no changes to spawn or anything.

>>13846406

I can't even see their spawn yet, none of my pollution is marked on the map even. It seems strange to have biter attacks this early with such little pollution.

>>13846424

Did you spawn in a desert?

>>13846427

Yep. Just so happens there are 5 spawners within a stone's throw of my base. I don't even have any military upgrades yet to properly defend my shit and they knocked out all of my stone production.

>>13846606

Desert can't absorb pollution for shit, try mining near water or trees if possible.

>>13846424

You sure you have pollution view turned on? Even a minimal amount of pollution will produce a very faint red.

>>13844725

>mining productivity.

That's probably it. Mine is getting pretty high.

>>13846606

Don't take the fight to them until you have some military upgrades and defenses set up. Turrets first near important things that pollute a lot and are on the fringes, then complete coverage then walls, then war. Looking at your map view the pollution red will flash if it's over an alien base. Makes it easier to see when it's faint.

>>13844652

> How bad is your computer

4th gen laptop i5 with an hd4000 and 16gb ram. factorio works surprisingly well, i just have the graphics on low or off (sprites lowest+1 look decent for no noticable fps drop). and I make sure i keep up with the walls around the pollution cloud. i've got a decent sized base

>>13833182

with all the science going and i'm still keeping it at 60 ups. i'll get fps drops in heavily forested areas or right smack in the middle of the base, but it's perfectly playable. I also don't run full 1080p i just run it windowed and slightly less. FPS drops I can deal with, it always stays over 30, UPS drops though would suck. I've already accepted the fact that at some point I'll lock it to 45 ups, and then 30 when I start getting drops. below that i'll probably drop the map.

>>13838133

PSA to open your debug menu and turn on the option to show rail blocks. Designing railways becomes a breeze, just keep in mind that the colors often clash so if you see something that makes you think "what the fuck that can't be right" hover over both and check if the block id are different.