/v/ - Video Games

What's a good video game in Japanese to learn the language as I play it?

>>13558164

You can't learn everything through games, you have to study too. Once you have the basics down, try a game you've already played before.

>>13558181

I am not a native English speaker, you know jackshit about learning languages through vidya.

>>13558187

If you do no studying? You can't learn Japanese. Do you know Katakana and Hiragana? If you know those you can play Custom Robo.

>>13558158

>So, you wanna learn the Nipponese, huh?

Nope.

>>13558164

The best vidya to learn nip with is the ones you always seem to come back to, despite having the entire thing memorized. Knowing what things say in English already helps fill in the gaps when you encounter unknown vocabulary, and it also helps retention when you see the word pop up again. KanjiTomo if you can't figure something out on your own, try not to use it until you absolutely have to. God help you if that game is an SNES RPG though.

>>13558190

Of course I know the Kanas, but I need practice reading actual phrases and terms. A video game is the most fun way to do this and it helps because it's in the context of a game and it's just more intuitive. I'll try that gamu.

>>13558187

When did you learn English through vidya? If you did it as a child you probably won't be able to do anything similar as an adult.

>>13558218

also, it's probably true that English is closer to his native language than Japanese (which would make it easier to learn language mainly through media), though it's not a guarantee.

>>13558158

I wanna ask this when the thread is early, Where do Japanese people pirate their manga/LN? If they ever do.

DJT guide doesn't have everything after all, it sucks that you can find shitty english scans but raw is hard to find for a lot of series. There must be a place where people who don't want to pay for dozens of volumes can read right? I know it might not even exist or be a secret club since they can go to a bookstore and buy there anyways. Are the only sources for raw manga western sites?

Use a textbook! (Tae kim or Genki are fine)

Research shows that past puberty, trying to learn through context (without full immersion 24/7) is much less effective than learning, memorizing, and practicing grammar rules like the kind given in a textbook.

Also, this is a bit more subjective but I recommend learning vocabulary in kanji as opposed to learning kanji themselves. Learning kanji out of words can only partially help you with learning entirely new words, but learning vocabulary will help you read, write, speak, and listen, and you can learn the kanji that appear in your vocab as you go (you will probably do it a little without trying).

>>13558240

Well, all western languages are closer to each other than the alien shit that is Japanese and Chinese and whatnot, but once you know more than one language really well, learning more is easier, your brain isn't so conservative about learning new patterns of language. Japanese is especially hard because you need to include a different set of symbols in the process of reading, but that's why you just need to practice reading even more. I'd recommend every beginner to not even bother practicing writing since you have to be specific with stroke orders and all of it is useless to actually learning the language before you have a good insight of how to speak it and read it. I'd imagine writing is important for Kanji but you shouldn't go balls deep into that beast as a beginner anyways.

>>13558320

Yeah, learning to write isn't really worth it unless you're trying to have a career in Japan or something like that. Anyway, start with trying to read basic stuff like children's books and NHK easy news, and move up to video games from there, the best ones are technically VNs because they have lots of conversational text but they aren't exactly video games in most cases.

>>13558339

yes, those are spaces as you'd use them in any other language. They're usually used in games that go very light on kanji, since kanji eliminate the need for spaces.

>>13558339

Jap kids learn Kanji throughout school. Games that have a large audience of children won't have the later Kanji in them, instead opting for kana. Those spaces help differentiate the words, because kana is fucking awful to read without spaces, even for japs.

>>13558272

Internet or manga cafes?

Anybody know any good apps/games to learn and drill hiragana? I downloaded something called "Japanese Dungeon" that works pretty well but it is riddled with micro-transactions and stops me from playing with no option to just pay for an unlimited version.

>>13558538

memrise

>>13558308

Studying is for nerds, I ain't got time for that shit. I am not a NEET.

>>13558575

You can't learn a language without either studying it or picking up your entire life and moving to a country where it's spoken.

>>13558683

You can't learn it by studying, period. Language has to have a use or else your brain won't take it. Applying it is the only way to learn it, either by speaking to other people or by consuming media written and spoken in it in large quantities.

>>13559079

practice is part of studying

>>13558308

>I recommend learning vocabulary in kanji as opposed to learning kanji themselves

You learn both. Vocab doesn't teach you the stroke order and radicals of each kanji.

>>13559121

you can learn stroke order as you go and as needed, which isn't actually much for most people.

And learning radicals is only useful for potentially understanding new kanji without a dictionary, which in itself is only useful for maybe understanding new words in writing without a dictionary; you're getting really diminishing returns, basically.

Practically speaking, the only reason for most people to learn radicals and kanji meanings is if it's going to help them memorize the words they appear in.

>>13559145

>Practically speaking, the only reason for most people to learn radicals and kanji meanings is if it's going to help them memorize the words they appear in.

Exactly. Learning kanji separately also helps with learning vocab, and recognizing them easier.

>>13559154

I really feel like putting a concerted effort into learning uncontextual kanji in a manner that can be considered "studying" them is not going to get as good of results as focusing on entire words and learning any kanji that appears in them as needed or desired.

>>13559269

Cmon, I just need something to pass the time whilst studying.

>>13559324

>Cmon, I just need something to pass the time whilst studying.

try studying

>>13559324

If you have a 3DS download Dai Gyakuten Saiban

>>13558209

Although, if you do this, don't let what the English version said restrict you - in all likelihood, there are a ton of errors, intentional or not, and if you're coming up with a completely different understanding of what something says in Japanese as compared to what the official translation was, odds are the official is wrong.

>>13558218

>If you did it as a child you probably won't be able to do anything similar as an adult.

Bullshit.

>>13559427

Or the main ones, for that matter.

>>13558164

VNs (preferably contemporary setting) are good because they have so much dialogue but they won't help you with phonetics. Danganronpa has a lot of informal but common Japanese that you won't learn from textbooks but the murders would be quite challenging to figure out on the spot since you're on a time limit in trials, I'd recommend playing it in English first and then Japanese. The Yakuza games are also good for this too since they have a ton of dialogue, but you don't need to understand all the weird stuff to progress so playing it in English first isn't necessary.

>>13559566

>Bullshit.

Did you even watch that video? He talks about building a foundation before jumping straight into reading entertainment.

https://youtu.be/CWuGZidj76U?t=1012

Learning a language simply for porn and video games. How trite.

>>13560003

I'm not sure you know what trite means, perhaps you should devote some time to studying English.

>>13560003

Making condescending and unnecessary one-liner comments. How trite

How do you tell someone to kill themselves? 死ね？自殺せよ？

Reminder that goons have a vested interest in making sure people don't learn Japanese, since they work as gatekeepers in the localization industry.

>>13560027

自殺しろ

>>13559566

>bullshit

>I reject established neuroscience studies saying that adults can't learn languages the same way children do

>>13560383

Look buddy, I don't do things based on pseudoscience and PowerPoints bullshit, I do things based on what I know, and what I know is anyone who studies English ends up not learning English because they don't apply it at all. Kids may have a slightly easier time learning languages but guess what they do? They use them, all the time, and if they don't they forget how to speak it when they grow up. Language, even your native one, needs to be practiced constantly, that's all that really matters. You stop speaking and hearing and reading your native language for long enough and you stop being fluent in it. Many emigrants have this problem when they actually adapt and only use the local language.

>>13560701

Not sure what your point is here. Of course you should apply Japanese, but you can't even begin to start reading it until you study the written language. Both study and practical application are important, it's not one or the other.

>>13560383

>learn the language like a kid, easy

so consume content in the foreign language all day everyday of my life for the next 10 years until i learn everything? no problem

>>13560701

Those people who were "studying" English, were they actually interested in learning the language or were they doing it because someone told them too / they should?

I don't actually consider memorizing without applying to be "studying" a language, so maybe your contention comes from a different definition. But regardless, there is a lot of scientific evidence which says that adults learn better when their education is focused around the learning, understanding, and application of grammatical rules as opposed to a "natural" (but non-immersive) method based around how prepubescent children learn.

>>13561099

Yea, his point is basically that adults can't do that, but if you try to learn a different way you can speak better than a two-year old after a two year period because your methods can be more efficient so adults can learn better (children actually can't learn grammar rules very well at all, they will do much worse if you try to give them rules to learn and apply instead of just context to understand)

>>13559427

>>13559566

Okay, thanks.

Just finished Dai Gyakuten Saiban 2. What a ride, these games alone were worth learning Japanese.

>>13559251

Fate/Grand Order is a terrible game unless you have a Fate waifu, then it's a good game

>>13560701

Are you defining study as in

>English/Second language is a required class or I won't graduate

or

>I am making a concentrated effort to learn a new language

There's a bit of a difference.

>people who don't apply don't learn it

Correct

>people who just apply and don't study learn it faster then studying and applying

Incorrect for adults

>>13565366

I don´t even get how this whole "applying without studying" should work. What is there to apply when you haven´t studied anything beforehand? Kids learn a language because they get constantly talked to by their parents as well as other adults and also their brains are still hardwired to pick up a language naturally. Nothing of that is true for adults.

私たちの誰が日本にでしたか。どうでしたか。私はあなたの話を聞きたい。なお、私の日本語未だ悪いのだでも覚えるの楽しいですよ！

>>13567145

Bump. You can learn Japanese, don't listen to this anus.

Bit of advice: If you're just learning vocabulary words, and you're running into Kanji that are giving you a hard time, try breaking the problem Kanji down into its radicals. Radicals are the building blocks of Kanji, so if you study them you will be more efficient at spotting differences between Kanji that look quite similar. 「鳥」 looks a lot like 「島」 but they use different radicals in their composition, for example.

Basically, it pays more to study radicals than it does to study Kanji on their own and without vocabulary.

>>13567247

Not touching this with a ten-foot pole. I think your Japanese is very bad, but I can't correct you.

>>13567247

"Was our who towards Japan? How was that? I eant to listen to your language. Also, my Japanese still bad because but memorization fun is."

Tbh I don't know if that's grammatically correct or not but I don't think it is. I couldn't do better but I wouldn't try to either so…

>>13567145

日本語を学べないのはお前か。

>>13570903

thread is dead

sorry I don't know of any good games

last thread someone mentioned 街 but I haven't tried it

you could try to play King's Field 1, it was never released in the west, although there is a fan translation out there

it really just depends on what you're interested in playing

>>13570903

Custom Robo games.

>>13570962

I already played the Gamecube one, though I got bored of the gameplay shortly after getting to the Zecks base.

アイちゃんが大好き～

Reminder that the goons and /leftypol/ are afraid of you succeeding.

>>13575507

貴様を殺しやる

>>13575356

I can understand that /leftypol/ doesn't want people to succeed, but what or who do you mean by 'goons', and why?

>>13575507

Elaborate or get out.

Watching her videos is actually a decent way to practice intermediate-level Japanese.

>>13575570

Should be 「貴様を殺してやる」, I believe.

>>13576830

>but what or who do you mean by 'goons', and why?

I'm referring to the SJW Something Awful rejects that comprise "Weird Twitter", are members of the Indie clique, and/or occupy positions of influence at game companies or localization companies. They're not all the same people, and don't represent 100% of SA, I'm just generalizing about the ones that are relevant to us.

Anons learning nip are a threat to them.

>>13576896

Eh, she's pretty easy to understand even without them. Plus she often uses them in her videos for emphasis anyway.

>>13581014

tell me the artist and I'll think about it

>>13581014

Girl on the right says "Ah, Senpai's penis is this big? The shape is gross (not sure if this is correct) but it's a pretty color… *gulp* Just a little touch…"

Girl with the dick says "It seems hard to measure, is it usable?"

Girl on the right says "Y-Yes!"

>>13581120

>"Ah, Senpai's penis is this big?"

II think the girl on the right is saying it more emphatically, like, "Senpai's penis is so big"

>>13581137

yeah, I understand the nuances of こんな but I always have trouble picking the correct way to phrase it in English, "so big" probably works better.

>>13581120

Regarding "Senpai," why do people romanize it that way, rather than as Sempai? If the pronunciation of the ん is as an M in that context, as a matter of Japanese grammar, it seems unreasonable expect any anglophone to know that and pronounce it properly. Why don't people write out, in English, the sound that the reader is meant to use?

>>13581253

It's because you don't actually say Sempai, when your mouth moves from an N to a P it automatically makes an N. Basically, if you think of it as being pronounced Sempai you'll get a different sound than the correct one, which is where you try to say Senpai but it comes out as a very subtle M because there's no way to avoid it. Same goes for the word コンピュータ

>>13581277

My bad, should say "when your mouth moves from an N to a P it automatically makes an M"

>>13581253

Sempai looks weird

>>13581277

>>13581283

>"when your mouth moves from an N to a P it automatically makes an M"

I'm running through both of the motions and I'm really not finding this to be the case. Maybe we form our words differently?

>>13581586

>>13581586

It's called the uvular nasal. Technically, the ん can sound like either a 'm' or an 'n' depending on the word being pronounced.

>>13559866

Jin Roh is another good suspense movie with layers to it.

>>13581586

I don't have any formal knowledge of linguistics or phonetics, but when I make an M I close my mouth the same way I do to start a P, whereas when I make an N my mouth stays completely open, so closing my mouth to make the P seems to form it into an M. If you do it very slowly you can avoid making any kind of an M sound but it's impossible for me to do at any kind of normal speech pace.

>>13581615

don't forget to mention that it can also sound like a french-n (nasalization, which also lengthens the vowel) before vowels, ng before g and k, spanish ñ before i and y, and the uvular nasal in isolation.

The linguistic term for this is that the moraic nasal /N/ assimilates the place of articulation of the following sound. As far as a japanese person is concerened, [m] vs [n] vs any other realization doesn't matter (phonemically), the only distinctive features of /N/ is that it is moraic, and a nasal sound.

>>13581999

say non-partisan. Unless you have an obscure accent, you will pronounce it something like /nɑnˈpɑɹtɪzɪn/ (this is the American pronunciation, but the important part doesn't change for any other major dialect), note that the /n/ and /p/ are touching, and are still being pronounced as [n] and [p].

It depends on what language you speak. For Japanese and Spanish speakers it does happen automatically, but for English speakers it only happens automatically sometimes (or not at all, the specifics are complicated), and none of those times are possible in Japanese, so an English speaker will (at least until they have a very high level of mastery over Japanese) have to make the willful choice to say [sempai] instead of [senpai].

>>13583633

むっ、目付きがなんか腹立つし、

ああ、もう！さっきからなんだの。じろじろじろじろじろって見すぎ。きもい。今までもちょいちょい見てたでしょう。知っているんだ。まあ、ねえ。確かにあたしは魔界のカリスマじゅしだし、しかもぴちぴちフレッシュでジューシー。そこは全力で否定しないけどね。でもなあ。歳は十万十四歳。まあ、魔界的には第二次性長期だけども、ハコメガネと、すごーい年の差な訳。えーと、何が言いたいかと言うと、

弁えろって事。ハコ眼鏡は確かに破壊の神様かもしんないけど、あたしはハコメガネよりも凄くお姉さんだ。お姉さんには敬う気持ちで接する

するべきって事。まあ、こんなあたしにシセンギョクコギヅケになっちゃうのは有る程度仕方ないと思うけどね。カリスマジュシの宿命だよね。アハハハ。さあ、茶番はこのくらいにして、さっさとセーハク活動を再開するんだ。あはは。ひゃ、パパ、この髪を触りするんですけど

I tried to listen and transcribe it, but I could only pick up about 90% of it. Basically, she's doesn't like being stared at and goes on a rant about it, bragging about being 100,014 years old, except that's only an adolescent in demon realm terms, but says you should respect her as "onee-san" because she's still way older than the god of destruction, hakomegane (you).

>>13575507

Her real voice is cuter then her high pitched fake one.

>>13584087

Pretty sure that one is the fake voice.

>>13584087

I've never been real clear how much of her is purely computer generated to human made?

>>13586124

It's just a girl using mocap

>>13586154

Ah that makes sense.

Anyone have a Japanese Shadow Hearts iso? Every site I've checked only has the US version.

>>13586533

You're probably more likely to get a response in the share thread.

>>13588815

Think nothing of it my nigger. Geez, she's so tsundere.

Is there a good place to find audio books or something similar? The link in the OP has a bunch of broken links, and I'm not really interested in the anime podcast in the djt guide. I'm looking for something to listen to while I drive.

>>13590428

http://rtkwiki.koohii.com/wiki/Japanese_Audiobooks_with_Transcripts

I haven't tried all of the audio files to see if they work, but the first few did, so here you go.

>>13569254

>I think your Japanese is very bad, but I can't correct you.

I think he learned Japanese completely from a book with no real interaction with Japanese be it online or offline.

>>13590740

>implying you can't learn proficiently just by studying

>>13590747

But if he didn't apply it any then he'll almost certainly be misusing ot.

>>13590428

http://www.jcbasimul.com/?radio=fm%E3%81%8A%E3%81%A0%E3%82%8F%E3%82%89

I'm thinking of getting a credit card so I could download H manga off of Japanese DLsite. I don't think they accept regular bank cards.

>>13593087

Then do it. It's better than not studying.

>>13593087

You just made me realize I forgot to study for today, thanks for reminding me!

I know it's not much, but I just officially passed 500 learned kanji.

>>13593558

congrats just 1500+ more to go :^)

>>13593558

how many usable vocabulary words is that?

>>13593740

I dunno, maybe.

>>13593773

don't worry, Vocab is the useful one anyway.

>>13593827

go away mark

I don't care about keeping track of how many words or kanji I know anymore. I mean, does anyone autistically keep a list of how many words they know in their native language?

>>13594339

I think it's a common thing for beginners to do before they've started reading a lot, as a way to measure progress in the slow grind that comes with starting to learn japanese, but as skill levels improve nobody really cares about the exact number of words they know, which is why you rarely hear people say a high number when talking about how much they know.

>>13594339

I have a rough idea of how many I know just because of my Anki stats. Though there are some words/kanji that I learned from reading that I don't have an Anki card for.

>>13594395

This. There's so much you have to know before any of it becomes useful that you don't have any particular indication that you're actually making progress. Quantifying your progress numerically makes it a bit more tangible, which helps with the drive to keep going when you're spending hours grinding what's all useless information at that point.

If you could Matrix upload basic Japanese into your brain, you probably wouldn't give a shit about exactly how many words it started you with, but rather that you had the ability to speak it, and a sophisticated enough understanding of the language to easily learn anything that it didn't start you with.

>>13593740

Not me, I meant kanji.

Is there any Android apps that let me learn? free preferably?

>>13595265

>let me learn

That's rather vague. I think there is a mobileshit version of Anki, but you need more than just that to learn Japanese.

>>13595279

I didn't mean let me learn but I just to know if there are some mobile apps that are good to use.

Actually I see all this stuff to learn Japanese but what about stuff in the OP to learn how to lean a language??? what are good ways to learn a language etc?

>>13595317

Start with the writing system.

I want to hatefuck Japanese Rachel. I didn't think she could be more annoying than she already was.

>>13595492

I found it embedded in a website about learning Japanese.

http://www.japaneseammo.com/stop-using-watashi-i-the-real-way-to-refer-to-yourself/

But come to think of it, maybe there is some value in watching translated American TV for listening comprehension, similar to how it's useful to play the Japanese versions of games that you already know thoroughly in English.

>>13595317

Most languages aren't Japanese and the same rules don't apply.

>Any romance language

>don't have to learn two new alphabets to even begin to read words let alone memorize thousands of pictographs

>sentence and grammar structure is similar if not the same rather then the constant subject omitting

>not having to understand how grammar works via far more particles

>having to get used to way less variants in tenses but far more variants in politeness

Even languages that feature the cryllic alphabet would be at least half familiar to people trying to learn them. The same rules don't completely apply to other languages what Japanese has to offer baka gaijin.

speaking of dubs

found a playlist of +100 english songs covered in nip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc8R0T5OdLw&list=PLhmTdE6VPv9GtVEwu0E9lW5k1ojXqln6-

>>13595317

Use a textbook or similar guide

It can be a physical textbook, a pirated one, or a free guide like Tae Kim for Japanese or StudySpanish for Spanish. Look for reviews before hand, and I personally find that textbooks are better.

Make sure that your guide is focused on a rules based approach

Unless you are literally 12, you learn better if your learning is centered around rigid grammatical rules rather than simply comparing different sentences. This is true even if you "don't like" grammar because some retard told you not to when you were 14.

If the textbook says that it uses a "natural way" or teaches "naturally", or I any way implies that it is new-aged, or directly says that it isn't a grammar based approach, you are literally better off throwing it away and watching tv with target-language subtitles instead.

find ways to apply what you are learning

All textbooks and guides come with practice exercises, though textbooks are going to give you substantially more. For example, Genki has written vocabulary and grammar practice, a listening practice CD, and conversational activities with a partner.

When you do these, it is important to practice all of the 4 major ways of using a language

> reading

> writing

> listening

> speaking

Doing all of them not only helps you become a well rounded user of the language but also reinforces the grammar and vocab you are practicing better.

It will be hard for people learning I their own to practice conversation, but if you can find a partner to do it with in discord, for example, then it's worth it.

Also, find outside sources to practice with. Many people here use vidya, as you'd expect, but anything is fine, and ideally you'll have some that are reading and some that are listening. For a while, this will feel mostly useless. But eventually you'll get to a point where you are understanding more than you aren't, which is a really motivating feeling.

practice the language every day

It doesn't matter if sometimes you can only get in some vocab, or just listen to some outside material on your way to work some days, but you have to be doing something every day.

>>13606114

>You guys do your reps?

Maybe.

>Studied 550 cards in 58 minutes today

>>13606114

I'm about to do my reps right now. For the past few week or so I've only been getting 100 - 120 cards a day. I don't have any limit on my cards, is this normal?

Not vidja, but at the end of Genki I there's a short story about Tanabata which has a construction I'm not sure about. It's probably something I've just forgotten, but I thought I'd ask.

In the sentence '娘が一人いて、名前はおりひめでした', how is the いて following 人 formed? I understand it's a te-form linking two clauses, but I wasen't aware that they could be attached to nouns.

As slang, do nips ever replace ～さん with ~3? In a text, would they ever refer to someone as アノン３, or アノン三 in writing?

>>13606550

I've run into something similar online, are you sure it isn't 人・いて (人・居て)(hito ite)

>>13606630

Ah, of course, thank you very much.

>>13607506

>>13606509

>I've only been getting 100 - 120 cards a day

>only

I have two decks, Core2k and Kanji Damage Reordered, and I only get 20-25 reviews per deck per day, for a total of 40-50 reviews and 8 new cards per day. No bully on that last point. I developed brain problems this year and had to set my new cards per day to 4 per deck to keep retaining things. How and why do you guys get so many? Do you do well with such high numbers? Am I setting my self up to fail later?

>僕 is supposed to be just a normal, masculine way of saying "I"

>but any time I hear someone else say it or am expected to use it I have an overwhelming sense of effeminate homosexuality washes over whoever is saying it

>old shitty memes are negatively affecting my ability to use the language correctly

>>13606550

一人 is read as　ひとり　and is the number one + counter for people.　It's the human equivalent of 一匹。If you want to say "I have one little sister",　you'd say 妹が一人いる

>>13606583

Never ever.

>>13607558

僕 isn't "masculine", it's boyish. In fact, it's often used in a second or third person manner as well to refer to little boys.

>>13607589

>一人 is read as　ひとり…

No problem there, I just didn't recognise いて as an inflection of いる.

>>13607554

Do you have a limit set on your amount of review per day? I used to do around 8 or so a day as well and as far as I remember would have more reviews than that.

>>13609548

It's set to 100. How often do you hit "Again?" I almost never do. Most of my presses are either Good or Hard.

>>13612597

Once I set new cards to zero for like a month. It didn't help significantly…

>>13611709

Also have a low again rate. Might be I just don't remember what my average review or even new card count was as well as I thought.

So i'm practicing and just want to make sure my sentence structure and grammar is correct.

if i want to write : "i usually listen to music at home at 4:30"

わたしわよくよじはんにうちでおんがくをききます

I don't know much kanji right now. Just trying to focus on material for my test.

>>13614666

woops. I meant "I often listen to music at home at 4:30" often = よく

>>13614666

You’re close. Try this instead

わたしはよく四時半にうちでおんがくを聞きます。

The only mistake you actually made was わ instead of は. An easy mistake if you’ve mostly been listening and not reading.

You also didn’t need to say the 「わたしは」. With this sort of sentence if you don’t specify a subject it’s assumed you’re talking about yourself.

Also try and get in the habit of using kanji as early as possible. Especially with common characters like numbers, time and basic verbs. Makes reading substantially easier.

>>13614666

私はよく四時半に音楽を聞きます

That's right, Satan.

>>13597640

This is true. I’m learning Indonesian after getting to a “low-intermediate” level of Japanese and the fact that their country produces almost no media of value makes learning hard. The only authentic text I read on a daily basis is their online newspaper. I challenge you to watch an Indonesian produced TV show. They are, mostly, atrocious.

In Japanese you are fucking spoiled for materials thanks to weaboos and business interest in the country.

>>13614795

Just curious, but what function does うちで serve in that sentence? I know you're not talking about your house.

>>13614879

Must've missed that bit.

>>13614865

he is talking about his house, it's the word うち plus the particle で, which (and this isn't all-encompassing, make sure to do your own research) can be read in this sense and for other simple sentences as "by way of" or "using"

>>13614879

>go to the country

I am in December. It’s a bit of a shithole, but putting up with that will help my skills.

>>13615591

God no. Indo 3DPD are the worst. It’s for my work, also because I find Malay history fascinating and by some weird twist of fate modern Indonesian is closer to 19th/20th century Malay than modern Malay is.

>tfw can't even retain kana

fucking kill me

i've tried every single thing there is, flashcards, just memorizing, android apps, heisig's books nothing works.

I had an easier time remembering all the cyrillic alphabets than this despite not even consuming or reading russian shit.

>>13615785

How long have you been trying? It shouldn't take too long, a month and a half at most to establish a working knowledge of the Kana and a little bit longer to get to the point where you can read them effortlessly (maybe a few months time). If it takes you longer, don't fret, just do it over and over and over again until you git gud.

>>13615792

I've tried every two months for the past 3 years.

>>13615804

Not to be a dick, but do you have some sort of learning disability? Two months is plenty of time to acquaint yourself with the Kana. When you say "every two months for the past 3 years" do you mean that you started for a week, then quit, then picked it up again after a two month period has went by, only to try again for another week, quit, and repeat the entire process? If that's the case, then you're doing it wrong. You need to do this shit

EVERY

DAY

otherwise it won't stick, because your brain has a sort of built in "garbage collection" algorithm that forces you to forget shit that it deems as unnecessary. If you want to remember something, you have to constantly expose yourself to the content and set the intention to remember.

>>13612835

Two things you could maybe do to help lower reviews are increasing the maximum interval modifier (you're bound to have a lot of reviews if you've got a few thousands cards in play in a 100 day review window) and suspending common word cards you're very familiar with and confident you won't forget.

>>13614888

The function of で in that sentence is to indicate the location where the action takes place.

>>13615804

I was like you until I realized that the method I was trying (writing them repeatedly) wasn't suited to me, and that I was trying too much at once. Once I shifted to almost completely mnemonic learning, and only took a tiny bite per day, I started making progress non-stop.

The question is, what have you tried every two months for three years? Are you trying only for brief periods without reviewing what you've learned? Are you trying to retain too much at once and burning your brain out immediately?

>>13615785

stop trying to learn kana and just skip them; try learning them as you go.

>>13619087

"on a scale from difficult to difficult, how difficult is this."

English is an objectively difficult language to learn.

But ignoring that, Japanese is also an objectively difficult language, and is also very unique, so the answer is probably between 7 and 10 depending on your native language.

>>13619169

>this guy said that English is hard and Japanese is hard, therefore he thinks Japanese is easy because English is hard.

genius logic there.

But Japanese is objectively hard AND more unfamiliar than English, so it will be harder.

>>13619192

I'm saying English is pathetically easy, so when he says they are both difficult I would assume they are the same

Whatever, my little tease is turning into a shitpost chain. I'm leaving before shitting up your thread any more.

>>13619226

The most difficult language with any application.

>>13619250

English ain't easy, I assume you learnt it as a young child.

>>13619271

If a young child can learn it easily, why can't a grown man?

>>13619292

I'm not saying they can't, but they have to learn it differently.

Children are better at absorbing languages, which means they have an ability to learn languages very well and relatively fast through only comparing two languages and using them. To adults, this looks like they're putting in little to no effort; making it look easy.

Adults can learn languages just as well as children can, but they have to do it in a more rigid way, that requires the study and analysis of grammar and speech rules, followed by application. This looks like a lot more effort than how the kids do it.

>>13619361

That's new-aged bullshit. Unless you're 12 or younger, trying to learn that way will be a lot slower than one of the traditional methods.

but in addition to that you should also watch more anime because part of studying grammar is application

>>13619466

what

are you saying it's faster but worse? because if so that's not true.

I'm having trouble parsing some information about adjective conjugation, and I was wondering if anyone with more experience could answer some questions for me?

>are forms like 寒くないです actually 寒くない + です, or is it one entity 「寒くないです」

>if it is one entity, then why do so many places, such as Jisho, only put 「さむくない」etc. instead of having the ~desu?

>If it is two entities, then what's going on with the literary forms like 「寒くありません」? nobody lists just ～く as an adjective form, so if one is 寒くない　です how can the other be 寒く　ありません if '寒く' doesn't exist?

>>13625517

Read your grammar guides, here's two lessons that clear up your questions.

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/polite

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/honorific

>>13625517

First off, the word is 寒い. 寒く is the adverb form.

1. it's 寒くない + です, they're 2 separate words.

2. The point mentioned above about 寒く being an adverb should kind of explain this, ありません is the formal negative verb "to be", so 寒くありません is the formal version of 寒くない, which is the negative conjugation of 寒い.

寒く and 寒くない aren't really related, the adverb form means something along the lines of "coldly" (adverbs aren't used exactly the same as in english, and I don't think I've ever seen 寒く specifically used), while 寒くない simply means "not cold"

>>13625681

so one is [negative adjective] + [desu], and the other is [adverb] + [negative aru], but they end up meaning the same thing?

>>13625726

No, ありません and ない are both negative ある, they both mean the exact same thing, but one uses a formal conjugation. I'm not too knowledgeable for how you have to make things agree with formal conjugations, but I think if you're using the casual conjugation 寒くない as opposed to 寒くありません (again, these are the same thing in terms of meaning), you'd follow it up with だ or nothing at all instead of です

>>13625758

Rereading that, you may find this post to be pretty confusing. Could you post the source material as to where you're getting these 2 phrases from? I think part of the problem is you not having a solid grasp on exactly what です and formal conjugations are, which smells like genki and it's shitty way of explaining things to me.

>>13625681

I think you're mistaken about the conjugation going on above in his examples.

寒くないです is the negative form of 寒い which has nothing to do with 寒く which as you noted is the adverb form. All that the two examples he gave, are the negative polite forms of the verb 寒い.

>>13625776

The main reason I mentioned 寒く was because of

>if 寒く doesn't exist?

I realize now that the confusion goes a bit deeper than that so I didn't really provide the answer he needed.

>>13625774

If you read the two grammar guide topics I posted above it'll go over it in good detail with many examples so you can clear this up. If you still don't get it after reading it, then elaborate beyond that.

>>13625795

Ah I see where you were coming from, was just a bit confused about where that came from but I can see now.

>>13625774

mostly from Genki, and then I compared it to other things.

My understanding of desu, which comes from multiple sources, is that it is a conjunction of de arimasu, and is the standard copula for polite conversation.

>>13625795

Fug that first quote was for >>13625726

>>13625848

You'd be correct, but also note that the ありません is also the shortened negative form of であります

and ない is just a further compressed version.

So basically the difference between 寒くないです and 寒くありません is when or with whom you would use them. It seems to me that if you're using です at the end of sentences, you already would have used the conjugation 寒くありません instead of 寒くない due to formality, at which point the です would have been redundant and contradictory, but if anyone knows better please correct me.

Genki seems to want you to stick です at the end of every sentence blindly, but that's unrealistic and awkward.

>>13625898

I know the practical differences, but I'm trying to understand how these forms were arrived at, and what the morphology is. I think I can use them correctly, but I'm trying to understand what's going on fundamentally to avoid confusion later on.

But thanks to you I think I'm having an epiphany. I did a little more research, and I'm going to write my new understanding of what's going on below.

>I was taught that the negative form of です is じゃないです. But in reality, です doesn't inflect for negativity at all. Instead that construction is the particle じゃ added to nouns, then the negating suffix ~ない is added, and then desu is added. ~ない conjugates like an adjective, giving [noun]じゃないかったです.

That would mean that 寒くないです is 寒く~ない　です.

but if you use ありません, which can inflect for negativity, the ～ない isn't needed anymore, so it isn't used.

so that means that

>desu only has positive and past-positive forms, with the meaning of the negative forms being covered in the object

>desu never inflects before an adjective or adjective-like suffix

>the i-adjective conjugations are

<positive ~i

<past positive ~katta

<negative and past negative ~ku+[inflected nai]

actually I meant

<negative and past negative ~ku+[inflected nai] or [inflected aru].

>>13626228

are you talking about ありませんでした? or do nips actually say something equivalent to "it's is"? do you have an example of when it's appropriate to do so?

>>13626350

でした is the past tense of です because it's a contraction of でありませんでした, the same way です is a contraction of であります.

or at least that's my understanding, I couldn't find etymology information for でした

>>13626399

fuck, I actually meant でした is a contraction of でありました, not でありませんでした, I was overwhelmed by negatives.

>>13626154

Yep, you've pretty much got it.

Can anyone drop some N3 full tests? I could find like one full one and one sample one and that is. Surely there is a copy of the official test books somewhere?

>>13629317

No idea where to find one.

You may want to find copies of Nihongo Sou Matome or Shin Kanzen Master, since both of these book series have JLPT simulation tests in it.

Guys, sorry for asking, but does someone have a link or even the name of a TV Series that about about a gaijin girl moving into a japanese school and learning about their culture? It was a show meant to teach japanese to gaijins, all the sentences they used were very basic and friendly, I think the girl was british, not sure about that, it was on youtube also I guess, does anyone know about it here?

>>13630941

I already have both, but thanks anyway.

Man, I really screwed up with how lazy I was during the summer. It should have been a breeze to get it, but I might just barely get it, if at all, now. And only if I stupid like mad.

I guess learning is more important than some test, especially considering it is not even N1, but I feel anxious about it.

>>13630994

The one that comes to my mind is Erin Ga Chosen.

It's similar to what you said but it's a japanese girl.

>>13631214

Holy shit, I think that's it, I probably mistaked the girl, thanks a lot. Did you study by those vídeos? Are they helpful?

>>13631214

She is not even a gaijin. I feel lied to.

>>13626399

>>13627185

である and ある are not the same. である is a copula, ある is an existential verb. They have very different meanings. Don't confuse them.

>>13631747

である is the particle で + ある, and I know the difference between them.

>>13631582

Pretty good for listening practice.

This one is also pretty good for learning something.

For some reason the uploader of the better versions thought it was a good idea to remove two episodes, so this will have to do.

>>13632167

top kek amazing show

>>13632167

>that opening

I didn't know Blacked made JAVs

>>13632391

I watched a JAV with black guys in it once it was boring as fuck. The girl just kept telling him to stop because he was too big and it was hurting her. So he just jerked off on her face. I wasn't really expecting shit since it was the only thing I hadn't watched from that actress.

>>13632774

Is this place exclusive for oldfags?

>>13634967

>tfw still don't understand

"hey I like when artists played live performances. I wonder if you want this towel?" or something but I feel like I'm missing out on something here. Forget about trying to read the rest. Fuck me I don't know enough words. I should study more.

>>13635208

Both pretty bad, did he have anything to say about how the sweat ended up in the trains?

>>13615804

How are you attempting it? What I did was just force myself to try and read sample sentences in Genki. I memorized all of the hiragana after a week this way. Katakana took a bit longer because I rarely saw it in Genki, but I took care of that later. I suggest trying something like that, learn as you go and don't try too hard.

Here's a fun thing I accumulated the past couple weeks. Similar looking kanji. Are you Japanese enough to practice and getting them right?

横構

系糸

区凶

味昧

荷苛司可

幸辛

遂逐

>>13649681

待侍持恃特

儀議義犠蟻

>>13649681

don't forget 懐壊

>>13649742

>>13649717

That's why it's a good idea to at least learn the most common radicals, so the difference is crystal clear. All of these examples have a different classifier on the left side.

>>13634967

I've been studying for almost a year, and no matter how many kanji and vocab I know, sentences that are full of katakana throw me off immensely.

>>13649886

I found that having a good grasp of both English and Japanese phonology has helped.

My biggest advice is to think of katakana as being based off an English accent. It clears up a few things like "er" -> アー and short-o (like "bot") to オ(instead of ア)

>>13649717

It's hard for me to read in small font, but it's very easy to tell the difference between them at bigger sizes. English is still readable at very small sizes, but I can't do that with nipponese. What's the smallest size that real japs can read?

I moved cross country and things have been incredibly chaotic for a couple months so I've fallen off the wagon hard. I've been trying my damnedest to get back into doing reps but I'm having an enormously hard time getting back into things when I was fucking religious about this before. I'm not sure if I can brute force this though as I've seem to have developed an almost pathological inability to focus on my lessons. Anyone who's been here before have any advice?

>>13659919

>In that case you can try starting over from scratch when you feel up to it again.

Man that sounds painful, but I also don't feel like I'm getting nearly as much from these reps as I should be. Everything is practically screaming that I should give up, but I don't think I can even if it means limping along like this.

>>13659774

First image:

男の子：　あんなに課金したのに欲しいサーヴァントが出なかったよ

女：　まあ・・・　よしよし気に病まないで母の胸の中で好きなだけ泣いて忘れてしまいなさい

女：　・・・・・それであなたをそこまで虜にしたサーヴァントは一体誰なのかしら・・・？

Second image:

男の子：　あんなに課金したのに欲しいサーヴァントが出なかったよ

女：　よしよしもう仕方のない旦那はんや

女：　そういう時はいっぱい飲んで綺麗さっぱり忘れよな

女：　大変だーっ！マスタ－が酔った勢いでガチャをまわしてまた爆死したぞーっ！！

I don't know what it means, I'm just good at finding Kanji and putting them together.

Just kidding, I know what it means, but where's the fun in just telling you? Try jisho.org

>>13634967

I wish I could play New Leaf on my 3DS so I could spot the differences from the English version, but whenever I try to play in nip it my 3DS crashes and it's the only game that does it. I guess Tongari Boushi will do for now.

>>13659889

>developed an almost pathological inability to focus on my lessons.

This happens to me for almost everything that I try to learn, and it always starts with burnout/not feeling like I'm retaining enough, and is then sealed by procrastinating when it starts to become a looming chore. I've only recently begun preempting it. Nothing good will come from trying to grind two months of material, so wipe the slate clean and start over from where you were, or wherever you can. Temporarily reduce the amount that you're doing per day to a tiny amount, just to get back on the horse, even if it's only for a few minutes a day at first. Getting back into the habit it more important than making maximum progress right now, because having the habit in the first place is the only way to make any progress at all. Vid very related.

>>13660205

Yeah, it still doesn't work.

>>13660317

The real problem for me is that external factors preclude me from actually scheduling things in the way Peterson suggests. I haven't had the luxury of too much free time since I was an undergraduate practically sleepwalking my way towards my degree. Ideally, what I could do is integrate learning into what recreation time I do have. But the problem with that is that I haven't found something that's simple enough for me to understand without it being a total slog and it being complicated enough subject matter to hold my interest.

>>13660438

Yeah, I get you. I really like the 52 mysteries and player owned shops, though.

And dating.

>>13567145

Baka!

>>13659889

I don't think you need to start from scratch, unless you weren't too far into the language to begin with or something. Haven't been there myself, but there's a few things I can think of you could maybe try Anki-wise. Set a temporary daily limit you can handle on your reviews and new cards to 0 until you get caught up. I think that's probably best if you were still around an upper-beginner or so level while the next suggestion isn't as viable if so. If you were only using the core deck and want to start from scratch, then rather than just redoing that deck, you could ignore it in favor of starting your own deck. There's probably still a lot you remember and a lot of core words are common of course, so when you're making a new deck you can omit those basic words that you still have no trouble with and encounter often enough. Lastly, you could just quit using Anki. Learn through input and maybe pick up some other study methods.

>>13665044

what the fuck is he even saying?

I guess it's because I'm inexperienced, but the best I'm getting is "SUMMER! what you're going to do… AAAAAAAAAAH tu Mr. Yuru tu"

>>13666013

How the fuck do you get that from that?

なっWh-

何をするだァー！ What are you doing!?!

ゆるさんッ！(許さん） Unforgivable!

How long have you been studying for?

>>13666013

>the best I'm getting is "SUMMER! what you're going to do… AAAAAAAAAAH tu Mr. Yuru tu"

YOU CAN'T

He's saying "Wha-what are you doing!!! I won't forgive you!"

>>13666104

>misread っ as つ, なつ means summer

>don't know が at the end of a sentence, looked it up, said it ended a non-final clause in a dependent sentence; never said anything about making it a question

>don't know the word 許さん

>not really important, but missread all the small kana as big kana because I didn't realize they were right-justified

>>13666187

non-final clause in a compound* sentence

>>13666193

>Wouldn't it be "what are you going to do"? It's する not している

Nah, even if they aren't saying shiteiru, it's still 'doing' when translated over in this case. Emotional outrage doesn't leave much room for mega proper conjugation.

>>13558187

Learned language through vidya before, doesn't work when you can't even read words you don't know.

Study the grammar.

Study the kanji.

>>13665044

Technically no, according to the standard language, but using だ incorrectly in that manner is stereotypical of a "country" accent, usually with べ thrown in.

>>13659774

うわ～ん！

WAAAAAH!

Despite blowing all that cash, I didn't get the servant I wanted!!

まあ…!

Oh dear…!

There, there.

Don't fret over it.

母の胸の中

Cry in momma's bosom to your heart's content and forget all about it.

・・・・・・それで

……So who on earth is this servant that has you so enthralled…?

※酒呑童子

*Shuten Douji

うわぁ～ん！

WAAAAAH!

Despite blowing all that cash, I didn't get the servant I wanted!!

よしよし

There, there.

Geez, master. You're hopeless.

そういう時

At times like this, drink a lot and forget all about it.

大変だーっ！

It's terrible! Master got drunk, spun the gacha, and died in an explosion again!!

あららら

My, oh my.

>>13664951

What exactly do you want to know? How much people study a day? What they study? When they do it? If you're new they start with learning hiragana/katakana, then move on to grammar and vocabulary. The amount you do this and when will depend on how busy you are and what you can reasonably learn and retain in a day.

>>13559251

how about the dragon quest ports for android? Or romancing saga 2?

>>13669455

Yeah, it could just be a typo too.

Whelp, I'm finally gonna dig in and attempt to learn nip. Can't wait to shitpost in Japanese.

>>13672445

Remember to use a textbook/e

>>13666274

Yeah he didn't even mention anime.

>>13678096

Can't know without seeing their contents. Upload them. If nothing else, that boxart alone makes me think it'll be prime meme material.

>>13678096

Japanese is a quickly evolving language but I don't think it's that quick. If it's on video then all of the grammar and word meanings are probably still (proscriptively) correct.

So without knowing more about the specifics of the book I can't tell you. If it doesn't teach grammar rules using some descendant of the Classical method, that is, if it uses the (((natural method))), then it's shit and you should burn it to make sure that nobody else gets the chance to use it. It looks like it might be for children? In which case it's okay if it doesn't use a classicalesque method, but then it wouldn't be any use to you in either case.

>>13679075

>>13678335

Scratch that. The "Let's Learn Japanese" videos are on youtube. Just shittier quality, but eh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a5kYYcnEKw&list=PL97F8C94FBEBC24A6

The intro is catchy AF.

At what point should you try to help Scanlation groups out? After the 4 year """fluency""" mark?

>>13681864

I'd say once you get to where you feel pretty confident you can clearly understand 99% of what you read, (can be with a dictionary) that should be fine. If the group is decent they should check to make sure you're at a level they deem appropriate.

https://www.duolingo.com/ this site just got a japanese course if anyone's interested, it's free

>>13686039

>This post is the last thing my phone did before bricking.

>Backup corrupted.

>Lost a week of Anki progress.

I'm pretty sure that I brought this upon myself.

>>13685805

Nobody should use Duolingo. It's (((naturalist))) garbage.

Take Kim makes it very clear that the past, negative, and past negative verb conjugation rules are complex, and that I'll likely have to come back to reference them. But is there a particular level of mastery I'll need to have with them before proceeding, or is it enough to understand they exist, and have a general understanding of how they work, without having them memorized at all?

>>13691711

They're not really complex at all, but as you learn more Japanese you'll come to understand why they are the way they are instead of just memorizing them. I'm not sure why you think he says they're very complex or that you'll have to return to them, the conjugations are one of the simplest parts of the language.

>>13691711

>before proceeding

Proceeding with what? You're not going to attain any mastery of grammar until you read.

>>13697386

Tae Kim is just a reference. Read through it once and reference it later if there's something you don't understand. You aren't going to understand grammar from that alone.

>>13697596

That's just negative past tense of 行く

>>13697614

Oh fuck I'm retarded.

>>13697386

I think he's referring to how many layers of contraction and aglutination went into forming the non-polite past tenses. But you don't need to understand that all right now.

>>13697386

You'll want to memorize those as soon as you can, but also continue with the lessons because you'll get to actually use them as you commit them to memory. The past tense isn't very complicated, and the te form (which is probably the most frequently used conjugation) is exactly the same as the past tense with 1 letter changed. So continue reading the other lessons but make sure to memorize the conjugations, it's really not hard at all, especially since there's like 4 or 5 irregular verbs in the language, and those are used frequently so it's easy to remember them.

What's the difference between する and やる in terms of usage? I know that やる means 'to preform" in addition to 'to do', but besides that, when should you use it instead of する to mean 'to do'?

>>13700619

[verb]します　ｖ　やります

>>13700755

Are you retarded? I asked about when to use them not how to conjugate them.

>>13700619

する can be used with physical and abstract actions, while やる is only for physical actions. I also suspect based on my (limited) reading that やる is less formal, since I see it used in casual conversations or by children but not as much in other situations.

>>13701335

>やる is only for physical actions.

How abstract? One of my Anki cards is "Let's do our homework together," which uses やる. Doing homework, although it has a physical component, is a pretty abstract task, both in that it's poorly defined, and that it's mostly about thinking, not physical activity.

>>13701478

I'm not sure. There is probably some gray area in there. I would consider studying/homework as a mainly physical activity personally. Something like "dreaming" would probably be more universally considered abstract since it only happens inside you head though.

It was good, but not gr8

>>13702503

underrated post

new thread

>>13706063