/tech/ - Technology★

The battle isn't over yet. Now fuck off.

>>1050157

Fuck you systemNigger. Counter sage

so consolidating Linux under one system like Windows,

was it worth killing countless open source projects?

Linux is soyboy central at this point. I'd rather side with autistic beardy autists like PHK than with whomever designs Red Hat software.

>>1050160

Nobody but money wanted to consolidate loonix.

And money contributes most of the code to it, so it basically owns it. Whatever.

Let's pool our Bitcoins together to hire a hitman.

>>1050169

>Implying anons have money

We need a /tech/ Terrant that physically removes botnet.

>Did he win?

I don't think so.

GNU Guix System is blooming - 1.0 version is going to be released soon, no systemd support (shepherd instead), ource-based, functional package management with reproducible builds, binary bootstrapping is getting better, the Hurd port is in progress, 100% libre distribution.

I wish they could merge Linux (kernel) into systemd, so I could use the Hurd and watch open sore and "Linux is the real system" guys drowning in Pooettering's shit.

>>1050188

>GNU Guix

Can I use the normal linux kernel and if so is it documented how to do it?

If so I'll switch from Arch in a heartbeat.

>>1050188

Is it possible to use GuixSD with proprietary drivers? I was thinking of installing it on my laptop, but it's got a shitty proprietary wifi that doesn't work with the proper drivers, so I think I'm going for NixOS instead, but if I can make Guix work then I would prefer to (eventually) use it as my main OS.

>>1050189

>Can I use the normal linux kernel and if so is it documented how to do it?

>If so I'll switch from Arch in a heartbeat.

>>1050191

>Is it possible to use GuixSD with proprietary drivers? I was thinking of installing it on my laptop, but it's got a shitty proprietary wifi that doesn't work with the proper drivers, so I think I'm going for NixOS instead, but if I can make Guix work then I would prefer to (eventually) use it as my main OS.

I'm not a scheme pro yet, but it is possible to define a nonfree package, just haven't done it before.

Check out these:

https://gitlab.com/mbakke/guix-nonfree

https://github.com/BIMSBbioinfo/guix-bimsb-nonfree

I'm buying a libre computer, but I'm going to try installing Guix System on my botnet PC too.

>>1050199

Also forgot to say. Guix System follows Free System Distribution Guidelines, so they make no effort to provide nonfree software support, so it may be hard to install nonfree drivers and firmware, but there are some unofficial package definitions.

https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guidelines.html

Quality software won. He was just a prolific developer.

>>1050205

Quality software already lost decades ago.

>>1050156 (OP)

No, his system is full of 0days, anybody with two fully functioning brain cells will avoid it.

>>1050156 (OP)

>alternatives to the components of systemd are dying

He wishes.

>>1050156 (OP)

the best alternatives are complete so they just work and are not dying if they have users.

No. I have no problems living without systemd because I believe in free software. I actually invest myself into my software.

>>1050192

so you want IBM to control Linux?

>>1050274

What?

>>1050189

What is Void Linux

>>1050292

An awful meme.

Systemd is a filthy jew op. Gentoo is the distro of choice.

>>1050189

Gentoo.

>>1050156 (OP)

Yes he won and the entire linux foundation lost, was it worth it? I'm on bsd now.

>>1050353

I would like to see systemd port for *BSD systems

:)

>>1050329

Gentoo supports nonfree software and systemd.

GNU Guix is better.

>>1050356

>having options is bad

USE="-systemd"

and you can customize which licenses you allow

>>1050359

By making it easy to use systemd or proprietary software, a distribution shows using these things is fine. By showing these things are fine, you make people use it.

It's like saying "Drugs are bad for you" and then giving someone heroine. The point of free software is not only to have convenience, but to give freedom. By not fighting software that's nonfree, or systemd you give up to it.

>>1050360

Systemd is GPL software. Stallman has no problem with it because it's GPL.

>>1050362

who cares about stallman, what matters is real freedom, not his deranged imaginations

OP: slackware still exists

>>1050360

Fuck off with that commie's definition of freedom

>>1050360

not making anything hard to use just because you dont like it is freedom. if the user can use whatever he wants then thats freedom.

>>1050367

>Fuck off with that commie's definition of freedom

Capitalists' definition of freedom is better?

<You are free to use our services, unless you don't have money, then you just die.

>>1050368

>not making anything hard to use just because you dont like it is freedom. if the user can use whatever he wants then thats freedom.

There is the difference between making something hard on purpose, like systemd and Pooettering does and not providing support for something to make easy.

If a distribution adds a literal malware to it's repository and provides support for it, this distribution isn't serious about security nor freedom. I don't want to donate/contribute to a distribution that wastes it's resoruces for fixing Poettering's shit.

>>1050370

>Capitalists' definition of freedom is better?

no they both suck

>oh no! linux actually has a foundation!! what will we do without our hundreds of unmaintained broken pieces of shit operating systems??

I already switched to OpenBSD, it's much better than Linux. Linux is a mess.

>>1050373

>linux foundation

>run by the glowniggers at redhat, intel, ibm, and microsoft

yeah they're the ones behind all this, just stop using that cuckolded OS

>>1050372

Not being radical about freedom and free software leads to it's degradation.

"Liberals" not caring about things brought systemd to the point where it is now, made Linux - the kernel use proprietary blobs, letting hardware to be proprietary too. Open source fags add nonfree software, e.g. discord to repositories. "Liberals" and corporations made the EU impose censorship on the Internet, they took away net neutrality in the USA.

You must care about your freedom. This "commie's" definition of freedom preserves it for a long time.

>>1050399

stallman is fine with systemd and that's why his definition of freedom is lacking

>>1050400

only thing stallman cares about is that the code is freely accessible. he does not care about the quality of the code just that its free.

>>1050400

>stallman is fine with systemd and that's why his definition of freedom is lacking

Argumentum ad verecundiam.

Also is there any source about Stallman saying that, because on the other hand he knows that "open source" DRM is still malware, so why would he not call systemd one? Maybe he doesn't know technical details about systemd.

Good thing is that GNU Guix's maintainers know that systemd is a malware so whatever.

But sure thing is systemd as free(?) software is better than nonfree software, because at least you can investigate how it works (doesn't work) and mitigate malware disfeatures.

The main power of systemd doesn't come from it being bloated, but it comes from having influence over distributions like debian and software like GNOME. Bloat is a bonus, so it is harder to remove.

>>1050405

why do you always put those non english soyboy redditor words in your posts??

>>1050419

English is not my native language, so I may make mistakes, but I've never used reddit, because it requires nonfree js to work.

>non english soyboy redditor words

What exactly do you mean, freedom, or argumentum ad verecundiam?

Second one is fucking latin you illiterate burger. This is the name of a defeasible argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

>>1050419

back to 4chan with you

>>1050295

How so?

t. Void main for 3 years

>>1050470

>How so?

voidlinux.eu

>>1050482

>>How so?

>voidlinux.eu

voidlinux.org

>>1050482

voidlinux.org

>>1050483

>>1050484

Nice damage control.

heres a plot twist: his programs are used because they actually work unlike most shit unix weenies put out.

>>1050486

Damage control by pointing to the site? What a dumb fucking nigger you are.

>>1050509

Well, what is voidlinux.eu? Please explain it.

>>1050426

just use english next time; you're not impressing anyone here with your latin shit

and I don't care about what stallman thinks aside from the fact that he influences a lot of people - because much of his stuff (such as the freedom issue) is nonsense

>>1050513

>Project maintainer ghosts and the rest of the distro sets up a new site. THIS IS PROOF VOID IS A MEME AND THE SOFTWARE IS SHIT! DOMAIN NAME CHANGE = BAD PROJECT

There, I explained it for you. Go away nigger.

>>1050518

>just use english next time

How abour you kys?

>because much of his stuff (such as the freedom issue) is nonsense

LMAO. Definitely kys.

>>1050519

Thanks.

Void Linux is a meme.

That's it. I'm going to install hyperbola linux today.

>>1050519

The creator came back a while ago.

>>1050405

GNOME is malware though.

Void and runit are very comfy. Archfags btfo. You use that botnet and dare to trashtalk Chad Void.

I'd like to do a poll on which OSs /tech/ uses but it would just be windows and templeOS responses along with "fuck off CIAnigger"

>>1050169

>hire hitman

wouldn't a better thing be to pool your bitcoin together to hire a team of coders?

>>1050518

It's not about impressing anyone, it's about tradition.

Rhetoric was invented in ancient times, so the names of arguments are in latin.

>>1050601

Maybe. But I was just memeing.

http://archive.is/9tOzW

>[...] the Open Source community is full of assholes, and I probably more than most others am one of their most favourite targets. I get hate mail for hacking on Open Source. People have started multiple "petitions" on petition web sites, asking me to stop working (google for it). Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!). Just the other day, some idiot posted a "song" on youtube, a creepy work, filled with expletives about me and suggestions of violence. People post websites about boycotting my projects, containing pretty personal attacks. On IRC, people /msg me sometimes, with nasty messages, and references to artwork in 4chan style.

>>1050604

>Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!).

Btw this didn't really happened. Some guys joked about it on IRC and Lennart, like all SJWs, misinterpreted it as an actual death threat to further his agenda.

IRC logs here: https://pastebin.com/TdbzLgiW

>8chan doesn't allow .txt attachements

???????

>>1050156 (OP)

Yes. Very few distros that don't waste your time don't require systemd. If making your computer work isn't the only thing that you do, chances are you will have to accept it. But it doesn't matter, because the Linux Foundation is even worse and even less trustworthy. It's all garbage.

>>1050591

very true anon

>>1050157

It is

>>1050405

Stallman doesn't care about "open source" DRM, only that the DRM respects the user's freedom to run the software, study the code, modify the code and share copies of the software. If users are forbidden to do any of that, he will reject any kind of DRM regardless of whether it is "open source" or not.

>>1050609

>>8chan doesn't allow .txt attachements

That's a setting board owners need to turn on

>alternatives to the components of systemd are dying

OpenRC is still a thing

Runit is still a thing

S6 is still a thing

Elongind is still a thing and provides compatibility with systemd shit thanks to the SJWs from GuixSD

OP is a faggot. Shove that blackpill up your ass.

>>1050651

Also GNU Shepherd and a lot of stuff

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Alternatives_to_systemd

Artix or Void, lads? Need something new to switch to from Mint.

>>1050728

NetBSD.

>>1050728

>Artix or Void, lads? Need something new to switch to from Mint.

I switched to Devuan from Mint, but it is a pain in the ass, but you can give it a try. I'm going to switch to Guix System as soon as I'll get a libre computer.

> what is openrc, sysvinit

>>1050949

are*

>>1050953

>stdio

It's called sndio

>does it work well with Firefox

Supposedly

>is there a systray mixer for it on KDE? (or any other DE)

No idea.

>>1050953

Last time I tried (((firefox))) on OpenBSD (on 6.3) it worked.

Fucking (((firefox ""devs""))). They bend over for (((pulseaudio))) on linux yet they kindly support sndio and android's sound (based on ALSA) via cubeb. I have heard that it's still possible to enable ALSA support on (((firefox))) using cubeb.

>>1050728

>>1050736

And OpenBSD.

>>1050953

i just typed apt remove pulseaudio but most of the distros i use have no systemd or related things so i dont need to do it

>>1050969

firefox does not need pulseaudio. you can compile it so it works without but some shitty binary distros compile it with only pulseaudio support.

>>1050973

I heard that new versions (59+) have PA as a hard dependency.

I don't know though how true that is, since I'm sticking with 52 until I leave this shit browser completely.

Linux is a shit.

Windows is much better.

<using nu-firefox instead of palemoon

for what purpose

>>1050976

I'm compiling firefox 60 right now, i can confirm that's bullshit.

There is no hard dependency on pulse, only pozzed binary distros.

>>1050982

bitchute.

>>1050991

even ubuntu allows removing pulseaudio. it just means that some of the precompiled packages wont work properly but it can be removed if you want.

>>1050728

Gentoo but you knew that already

>>1050405

they probably killed ian so he wouldnt speak up against it

>>1052659

I don't like source-based distros.

>>1050971

>systemd

Or, as I have recently come to call it, IBM/RedHat/Poettering/systemd.

https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75

>are you sure? this seems like a bug

>don’t break userland

>>1055499

>Lennart pls.

But isn't it true, in a world where by now non-systemd distros are considered basement dweller toys by most who use Linux in production environments?

all I see is mental gymnastics reasons to avoid systemd.

it has functions needed by production environments and is open source. it starts unifying userspace so it can become an usable OS.

so it's normal you special snowflake autists get mad because muh sekrit club

Looks like some Soros-funded controlled opposition to me.

Yikes. Where did all this misogyny come from?

I smell some satanic fuckery here.

Masons, Masons everywhere...

Europeons need to burn in a tar-pit. Disgusting

I smell rats.

Holy shit, the Masonic influence here is glowing.

I wonder (((who))) is posting so much automated spam here?

>>1055578

cia should hire better shills. also, pls stop the bot spam. (((you))) aren't fooling anyone; you are glowing in the dark so hard right now.

systemd is simply too large. it's not lightweight, it has maintainability problems due to its size, it's not modular enough because you can't disable stuff you don't need or even want (lennart and cia+red hat just wants to make systemd as hard to replace as possible), it's developers can't handle criticism (or bug reports), systemd is creeping in as dependency (so it can't be easily replaced! an init shouldn't be a dependency in any program). different distributions having different init systems/process supervisors is not problem to any competent sysadmin or user (normalfags don't care about which init the distro has as long as it werks). openrc and runit are just as easy to use as (if not easier than) systemd. it's a simple fact that old init systems offered a lot more flexibility than systemd since you weren't required to have a lot of niggerlicious features installed that you don't simply need (even if you don't need it, it can still harm you as the features can affect the performance or introduce more bugs) finally, the fact that systemd is open-source doesn't matter much since no one can understand systemd's whole codebase, so it might as well be proprietary.

>>1055578

>systemd

>it can become an usable OS

But we don't want systemd to become the OS.

>>1055578

>it starts unifying userspace so it can become an usable OS.

Sorry Lennart, but NO. Unifying userspace should be done, by providing quality software, not by forcing people to use that bloated shit, just because it is hard not to use it. We don't want OS unified in the way, that takes away freedom of choice, stability and security. The system isn't unified, because people don't know what is the purpose of the OS, they forgot about GNU, they forgot about freedom.

But anyway, why would you like the OS to be unified so much? Only Poetteringware have problems with portability, the rest is working fine.

GNU/Linux isn't a platform for selling proprietary software and it doesn't have to be so unified as Windows for example

>>1050953

Uninstall it. If you're running software that's hardcoded to talk to pulseaudio, use apulse, it pretends to be pulseaudio to those applications and passes to alsa.

>>1058582

Is there a way to get per-application volume control with just ALSA?

>>1058583

Programs tend to have their own volume controls. But serious question: How often do you actually use that? After nuking PA off the box I noticed that the only time I ever needed separate volume controls was when I compared two videos side by side.

>>1058604

>when I compared two videos side by side.

And media players typically have volume control.

>>1058611

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at.

>>1050523

It has a CoC.

>>1050728

Artix and add the BlackArch repos.

>>1050156 (OP)

What about Funtoo D:

>>1062935

It's a small distro in popularity?

>>1050656

Here's a page on the same site of Linux distributions that you can switch to without systemd

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd

who gives a shit. Stop caring about what normies do with their Ubuntu installation.You people sure are concerned about what the average /linux/ reddit user does.

>>1063070

Maybe they're faggots and that's what they wanted all along

*bullies you online*

>>1063070

You can interpret anything to look like anything if you look hard enough. It's just you.

>>1063087

>Who gives a shit? It's free software.

Well, the source code is free software, but systemd takes away your freedom by different means. What its developers try to do is to "unify" - take over all GNU/Linux distributions, Poettering even told it himself. He told the plan was to make it hard for non-systemd distribution maintainers, so they would eventually give up and use systemd.

That's not how free software works, systemd is open sore kind of project - look, contribute, use, but do not modify and shut up, just like all Google's stuff, e.g. Android.

>>1063142

So what if it's hard for non-systemd distributions? What's so wrong about writing software that you want to use and ignoring the software you don't want to use?

>>1063151

>so what if somebody is trying to sabotage you, that's none of your business!

imagine being this retarded

>>1063151

The problem is RedHat has more manpower than other distribution and systemd is viral - it would be easy to avoid it, but systemd's developers try to make systemd a hard dependency of other useful or even mandatory programs, without any reason to do so. They even tried creating kdbus - dbus inside the Linux kernel. The key was taking over Debian and GNOME - after Debian made systemd it's default "init" (operating system), almost all distributions did the same, because of that it is hard to avoid. Distributions are harder to fork and because so many distros use systemd, its developers make software dependent on systemd, dbus, pulseaudio, etc, while not supporting alternatives, so non-systemd distributions often have to fork these programs.

>What's so wrong about writing software that you want to use and ignoring the software you don't want to use?

Nothing is wrong, but it's hard, so a lot of people just give up.

>>1050156 (OP)

Lennart's the reason I've switched over to OpenBSD. I need Mathematica for work, it's my last sticking point which is keeping my Devuan partition around.

Linux has been embraced, and extended, and now that Microsoft is a Platinum Level Linux Foundation board member it will be extinguished.

>>1063162

Linux was embraced since the day they started adding nonfree blobs and supporting open source ideology, which ignores software freedom. If only people knew GNU exists, the OS would be united, but they don't. But there's a bright side of systemd - people hating systemd work together. That's why I'm going to use Guix System, the official GNU system distribution, which is free of systemd cancer and support for GNU's kernel - the Hurd is planned. I would like to see the Hurd being ready and Google abandoning Android including Linux. Systemd is Linux specific, so I would never have to use poetteringware ever again.

>>1063165

>which is free of systemd cancer and support for GNU's kernel

*and it supports

>>1063157

No one is sabagtoging your gay kike obsolete loonix distros, fag. Stop larping

>>1063180

>calls someone a kike, because he wants to have an alternative

>whereas he's fine with software pushed to everyone by a big corporation - RedHat, which is owned by a bigger corporation - IBM, which is basically a patent troll.

Shut up Pooettering you bitch. Also GNU/Linux, because Linux is just a kernel. Have you ever used any GNU/Linux distribution? Because you don't seem to know, what systemd is. Wonder who's LARPing here, I guess you're using Windows.

>>1063219

>What non-systemd distros can be used for gaming, or at the very least run doom?

supertuxkarts works fine on Devuan but you have to enable nonfree repository and install blobs for GPU. Played also Alice Madness Returns on Wine, but I guess almost every distro having wine in its repo can probably run games. You can also have a problem if you will run GNU/Linux-libre distro, because that distro doesn't contain any blobs, because almost every GPU works only with nonfree software. So unless there is any libre gpu, you won't be able to play resource heavy resource consuming games on Linux-libre and they're botnet anyway.

But basically install whatever GNU/Linux distro, even if it uses systemd, because everything is better than Windows. GNU/Linux Mint is good for new users.

>>1063219

unironically install gentoo

> openrc

> latest dxvk and wine

> rt-kernel

> overlays are comfy

>>1063233

Gentoo actually works? My laptop can't run anything more demanding than gmod at over 30 fps so might try that out. I'm really scared of trying gentoo since I never used anything other than windows and gentoo is always talked about like its the final boss of gnu/linux distros.

>>1063237

back up your shits or use a spare ssd

read every fucking word of the handbook

I have a core-m running gentoo for months, just update or compile over night

>>1063238

I already got an external hard drive for backup a day ago, was thinking of using a virtual machine to test out installing before actually doing it. Is that a smart idea or just a waste of time?

>>1063241

VMs are fucking slow, especially for compilation

Get used to noob non-systemd distro first, if you are not confident:

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd

>>1063243

Il take you up on that.

Thanks a ton anon nonetheless, really good info and exactly what I was looking for. Always thought I might try out gentoo to see what the fuss was about but never thought It might become my OS for my main pc. Funny how a really old meme distro is now one of the best distros to use by anons.

People bitch about systemd a lot. If you don't like it code something better. It's better than init and running inetd and all of these other daemons. Nobody is going back to init.

Code a clone of launchd that is more Linux compatible or fork something from FreeBSD and port that to Linux.

Systemd fucking works and to date there have only been 4 minor security issues with it. All are fixed. https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-15978/product_id-34874/Systemd-Project-Systemd.html

What is the problem with systemd again?

>>1063269

>reddit spacing

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>1063269

runit exists already. a init system that needs constant updates is not good

>>1063237

>Gentoo actually works?

Well no, don't use gentoo. After using GNU/Linux for 4 years I tried gentoo once and getting it to work was a nightmare even with their handbook. Install gentoo is a meme. Seriously if you only touched windows better start with GNU/Linux Mint, even if it has systemd, then switch to Devuan, because both Mint and Devuan are Debian forks, so it'll be easier than gentoo. And finally I don't know thats up with gentoo, people like it, but for me Guix System seems a lot easier and as much powerful. And gentoo doesn't seem to care about reproducible builds or binary bootstrapping.

You can try gentoo only if you know much about computers and operating system, but if you don't using gentoo will only make you hate GNU/Linux. I heard that some idiots installed Arch or gentoo on noob's computer and that's the worse thing one can do, because that person told "Linux is sooo complicated, fuck this shit, I'm not going to use this shit ever again". So please don't.

>>1063269

>What is the problem with systemd again?

Read the thread.

GNU Shepherd, now fuck off.

>>1063269

>super general introduction so you don't have to reply to anything in the thread

>i don't see you do better

>no the alternatives don't count because then i'd be wrong

>we already won, you are autistic, deprecated blah blah goyim, give up already

>the only way to beat systemd is to be a worse systemd, trust me on that one

>"reported security issues have been fixed" described as an unironic quality rather than the absolute fucking baseline

>question that assumes the answer you want to hear

This has to be the biggest shill post I have ever seen on /tech/. It's like you went through a checklist to make the most cliched post possible.

>>1063280

There is nothing difficult about following instructions. In fact loads of """Gentoo gurus""" just blindly copy shit off the internet in exactly the way unix weenies are described by multicsfag. I doubt that a beginner could appreciate what Gentoo lets you do though. How many former windowsfags use user patches or exotic libc setups?

>>1063283

>There is nothing difficult about following instructions.

Well, I tried once, but setting up encrypted llvm partition with double boot and also one strange thing I don't remember now was too much for me.

>blindly copy shit off the internet in exactly the way unix weenies are described by multicsfag

I just hate that, configuration files in bilion places, Guix System does it better, because there is one config file for the whole system. Fucking unix weenies, why didn't Stallman make a lisp machine clone, or a completely new system.

>>1063285

>llvm

Shit it's late here, sorry, I meant lvm.

>>1063237

start with Linux Mint. After a couple weeks of learning to navigate, switch to MXlinux. After you learn how to write scrips and install software. Keep trying new distros. Distro hopping is a good way to get familiar with linux. At least for me it is.

Each distro will provoke you to learn something new.

>>1063288

I might try and do that, most likely what il do if I try to install gentoo and fail 3 times or give up like

>>1063280

is insinuating.

>>1063289 even if you do get it working you won't be satisfied, you will find every possible way to fuck up your OS. Dont get comfy failing is part of the process.

>>1063285

Unix was popular throughout the world's universities and it was adequate for the purpose of being an OS

>>1063219

Do a full Slackware install and get wine from winehq.org and steam/multilib from alienbob. if you dont trust alienbob, compile his steam/multilib slackbuild.

>>1063237

It works in the sense that it gives you your packages as you asked, but not in the sense of being practical as it can be very hard for someone who has never used it before. For me it works, but it is too much of a hack but at the same time you get what you asked for.

>>1063289

If you want to give it a whirl here are some pointers:

if you are going to use encryption, I recommend reading http://slackware.cs.utah.edu/pub/slackware/slackware64-14.2/README_CRYPT.TXT and goto section "Combining LUKS and LVM". when you do login on the install disc youll have to run 'cryptsetup --help | more' because you have to specify the --ciphers paramater with the option you want or else later your kernel wont unlock, youll also have to make sure to include the specified cipher support when you compile the kernel. in addition to this be aware that genkernel is not nice for hibernation/suspend so use another alternative.

when you choose your profile, use a desktop environment one if you want to use a desktop environment. if you try and use other profiles it wont include the dependencies required and it may shit itself unless you add it to your USE manually.

if you are using the hardened profile with no selinux, genkernel will still add it to the kernel, so run 'genkernel --menuconfig' to take it out.

also dont bother with stage1/bootstrap, especially if you are trying it out.

>>1063394

Why would you use an old version of your OS, assumming you don't have Stockholm syndrome?

I just can't grasp why the people who would use Mint/Ubuntu would have any objections against systemd. There are thousands of distros, and some of those are systemd-less distros. Sure, they may be more advanced than Ubuntu, Mint or ElementaryOS, but if you really care about systemd, chances are you are a capable user, or a huge idiot who buys into internet memes unironically, in which case you may as well get fucked.

>>1063394

It's not so much about the software as it is about software politics. systemd's structure requires a certain degree of hard coded dependency to support it, leaving some software requiring systemd over other daemons.

>>1050156 (OP)

Not until there is a compatibility layer between systemd and windows.

Then he will unmask himself

>>1063412

So its still possible to just use old versions of currently systemd dependent software and distros?

>>1063414

>Its just politics

Then why is everyone acting like its the end of the world? There are so many blackpills in this thread and older ones I went into while the fact of the matter is it just makes things harder for people who don't like it. As long as people can access older versions of systemd dependent software and want to use them without systemd, forks are going to be made eventually. I mean goddamn, there are a ton of alternatives and if you don't like them make one yourself, or at the very least support a team making one. Its not like its impossible to code alternatives to systemd shit, goddamn.

>>1063423

You can always use old versions, but the faggots who tout "modernization" and whatnot often try to break backwards compatibility and make it as hard and painful as possible to get rid of their cancer.

>>1063427

>Break backwards compatibility

Seriously? That's windows tier cancer, is it the same with all systemd distros or only a few? I was thinking of trying an earlier version of Mint.

>>1063423

>Then why is everyone acting like its the end of the world?

Because people who think this are autistic. You should be more worried about the backdoor in your Intel CPU than some piece of open source software.

>>1063431

It's not the distros breaking compat, it's the software.

>add bad patch

>break compat with versions without the patch because "everybody upgraded right? :^)"

>people who don't watch out for this shit are now stuck with the bad patch

You could see this with GCC5 and idiot "optimizations" too.

All I know is that whenever I run # pacman -Syu on the arch rig I have and there's a new systemdicks version to be updated it feels like playing a game of russian roulette, every other version of this crap seems to come with a surprise severe critical bug embedded into it. Poettering and his crew don't have any idea about what testing and QA are.

>>1050883

devuan works well but it won't boot on my new laptop. gentoo neither btw

REEEEEEEEEEE

Why is illumos still not usable...

Some day he's going to be executed for sabotage

>>1050156 (OP)

>Did he win?

No, jewhat/freejewdesktop. Once you go full gnu you'll never go back.

>>1050156 (OP)

no he did not. its all still open source so you can replace everything with programs that you made or even just modify the existing programs. most people just like complaining tho so they wont do anything.

>>1066948

>no he did not. its all still open source so you can replace everything with programs that you made or even just modify the existing programs. most people just like complaining tho so they wont do anything.

Systemd isn't a proprietary program, but it uses a different kind of power to take away users' freedom - a political and development power - the politicalpower, that is systemd developers try to influence other projects, sometimes successfully like GNOME or Debian, sometimes they don't succeed, like with kdbus in the Linux kernel. The development power of systemd is that RedHat pays for everything, which makes them faster than alternatives - systemd have recently reached 1.2 milion lines of code. Developers of distributions without systemd make a double work - they maintain a distribution, but they also remove dependencies on systemd from software.

>>1066980

isnt gnome part of the freedesktop/redhat system tho. the good non bloated programs that are actually made by the community work fine without any systemd or freedesktop parts. i think that debian lets you change the init too if you want but you just cant use their precompiled packages that are compiled for systemd then.

>>1066981

>isnt gnome part of the freedesktop/redhat system tho.

Weird syntax. I think it is, because: GNOME is formally a GNU package, but on their website you can't even find what their name stands for, which is GNU Network Object Model Environment and you can't find any information about the GNU project. The same website is hosted by RedHat, their footer is

<© The GNOME Project

<Free to share and remix: Creative Commons CC-BY. Optimized for standards. Hosted by Red Hat. Powered by WordPress.

RedHat, Google and Debian support the project.

https://www.gnome.org/foundation/

They advertise systemd, pulseaudio, d-bus and networkmanager as their core technologies. No one sane is proud of using systemd. And also as a GNU project GNOME should rather use things like Guile (instead of JS), Shepherd (instead of systemd) and Guix (instead of flatpak), but they don't. They're highly connected with RedHat/systemd now and even if now applications are goodly written, because there are still sane people in GNOME, that thing can change soon.

https://www.gnome.org/technologies/

>i think that debian lets you change the init too if you want but you just cant use their precompiled packages that are compiled for systemd then.

You basically can't use Debian without systemd, because even if you remove it and replace with another init, if you install a package with systemd as its dependency (so probably 50% of the repo (don't remember how much exactly, Devuan devs counted this)), systemd will be automatically reinstalled, and it will replace your init. That's the reason Debian was forked and Devuan exists.

>>1050201

https://framagit.org/marlin1113/guix-nonfree

I use guix as my daily driver, i get my firmware from this repo

>>1055499

>systemDick

Please stop, sir, it makes it sound manly.

>>1067005

>I use guix as my daily driver, i get my firmware from this repo

I must switch from Devuan finally to it, but I have double boot with Windows 10 and can't until Guix supports encrypted LVM, because otherwise Wangblows could read or write my files. A libre hardware would be cool too.

>>1067009

Show up at freenode. I'm starting to help with packaging, we need all the help we can get :)

>>1067003

The acronym of "GNU Network Object Model Environment" has been deprecated a long time ago; the name they want is simply GNU Gnome. Gnome doesn't rely on Guile because nobody has invested the work to make Gnome rely upon Guile. Gnome doesn't rely on GNU Shepherd because no work is needed to make Gnome work with Shepherd. Gnome doesn't have convenience features supporting Guix because nobody has invested the work to support it.

>>1067065

Being a GNU package obligates you to fit well into the GNU system, so if GNOME was taking being a GNU package seriously, they would try to work with other GNU software as well.

>nobody has invested the work to make Gnome rely upon Guile.

>nobody has invested the work to support it.

They should be interested, but they are not. Search for "GNU" on their website, on the About Us page, they don't mention GNU at all. GNOME is now a RedHat project.

>>1067134

You're implying that Gnome doesn't fit well into the GNU OS and doesn't try to work with GNU. This is outright false. You're asserting that Gnome isn't a GNU project with the evidence that the name of GNU isn't readily found in their website. The GNU project has always made the claim that the Gnome project is a GNU project and an inherent part of the GNU OS.

>>1067138

>You're asserting that Gnome isn't a GNU project with the evidence that the name of GNU isn't readily found in their website.

Formally they are, GNU still didn't discarded it, but just look at it: they don't mention GNU, they encourage people using non-free web services, for example by providing applications like gnome-online-accounts or gnome-twitch.

https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeOnlineAccounts/Providers

They make GNOME highly dependent on systemd, making it less compatible with GNU's official distribution - Guix System:

https://wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/SystemdUser

https://wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/Systemd

They even try to port their software to Windows, while GNU isn't a set of useful free programs, but the operating system, the mission isn't to make it convenient to use Windows:

https://wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/Windows

This is not how a GNU component should work.

>>1067148

Do you realize that GNU's official distribution is GNU itself? Systemd is acceptable because systemd is licensed under the LGPL. You can use Gnome without systemd, it is not necessary for the vast majority of Gnome functionality. There is nothing wrong with porting free software (like GNU) to work on Windows. The people are doing that work because they like to do it. You can be sure that if somebody felt like it, people would port GNU to work on the Haiku platform or the Minix platform. You are effectively saying that "people should do the work that I want despite me paying nothing to you".

>>1067149

>Do you realize that GNU's official distribution is GNU itself?

Not really. A distribution is software packaged together. There were GNU/Linux packaged by someone else, but they were not official GNU distributions, just distributions. Until Guix, there wasn't anything GNU packaged itself to make a distribution. Just because there exists software, you could hypothetically connect together, doesn't mean it's a distribution. Distribution is a real software packaged together.

https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html.en#notinstallable

>Systemd is acceptable because systemd is licensed under the LGPL.

No it isn't. Is an 'open source' DRM acceptable? No, because it takes away users' freedom. Systemd does the same, it even has spyware features, like using Google's DNS server by default. http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

GNU isn't a toolkit for creating distributions, but GNU is an operating system. Finally there exists an official GNU distribution and GNOME makes it harder for Guix people to maintain the system as a whole. GNOME people work on the side of RedHat, which doesn't want to support GNU:

https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html.en#companies

>There is nothing wrong with porting free software (like GNU) to work on Windows.

It is wrong, because by that you make using non-free software less painful than it would be without free software, so you encourage people to use non-free operating systems like Windows.

https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/System-Portability.html#System-Portability

<As for systems that are not like Unix, such as MSDOS, Windows, VMS, MVS, and older Macintosh systems, supporting them is often a lot of work. When that is the case, it is better to spend your time adding features that will be useful on GNU and GNU/Linux, rather than on supporting other incompatible systems.

You could port some programs you should port to different systems, like GNU Jami, but it is intended to be an universal communication platform and it'll rather show people that using free software is better than using non-free software, but if you ported every program that runs on GNU to for example Windows, GNU/Linux would lose a lot of advantages.

Gnome 3 isn't a gnu project you retards, only GNOME 2.

Also, it's in the GNU package guidelines that a gnu package must be hosted on gnu.org, must have the GNU name on it, and must not endorse proprietary services of any kind.

>>1050276

>>1050274

Can you Americans explain? Isn't IBM owned by Jews too?

>>1067158

A distribution has zero requirement to be packaged together. The only requirement to be a distribution is to be distributed.

>>1067405

>A distribution has zero requirement to be packaged together. The only requirement to be a distribution is to be distributed.

Following that logic, there already exist a Guix GNU/Hurd distribution. It isn't packed together but it is distributed - you can easily download both Guix and the Hurd from the Internet, so it's a distribution. Also there exist many virtual distributions, because the software is already distributed, just pack it together. EmacsBSD? It don't have to be packed together, it just have to be distributed!

See?

Face it losers, he won.

>>1050156 (OP)

>systemd trying to replace cron

That'll be the nail in the coffin for systemcucks.

>>1050399

what proprietary blobs is the kernel using exactly? i've never heard of this...

>>1067581

no he didnt. runit still works on my systems

>>1050156 (OP)

how the fuck did he win exactly? every day i see new critiques pop up and exploits found. people seem to be jumping on the bandwagon against it. also, the fact that openrc and runit exist with distros running with them with 0 problems is a testament that systemd is the wrong approach to solving the problem(s) it's trying solve. so not only is it not "the only solution to a complex system boot", it's also the most bloated, error prone and least adhering to unix/linux philosophy. i'm optimistic about this one. people will wake up gradually.

>>1050156 (OP)

Guix just mogged ever package manager in existence, and GuixSD doesn't use systemd. Those sanctimonious assholes at GNU have never looked better than they do now. I'm even giving the GIMP another chance, and that's really saying something.

>>1050191

I had no issues apart from the wifi thing. They recommend an atheros dongle.

One thing to consider is that Wayland isn't default even with GDM and GNOME.

>>1068207

>how the fuck did he win exactly?

Many popular GNU/Linux distributions runs systemd and they're going to stay like that, because its devs don't care about

>new critiques and

>exploits found

That is Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora and RedHat, Arch, this elementaryOS shit, whatever it is etc. RedHat would like to have every distribution, but that's impossible now, because the community and forces were split into two camps - that is systemdOS and distributions without systemd. In this case I don't mind what happened, because my distribution - Guix System is stronger now and it is one of the best systemd-free distributions.

>>1068221

>Guix just mogged ever package manager in existence, and GuixSD doesn't use systemd. Those sanctimonious assholes at GNU have never looked better than they do now. I'm even giving the GIMP another chance, and that's really saying something.

This.

And I hope Poettering just gave some chances to the Hurd now, because systemd is Linux dependent.

>ssh logging breaks on my fresh Debian install

>google it

>all answers point to how it was done on the old system before systemd

>go on Debian forums to ask why it's broken and if systemd being different has something to do with it

>immediately accused of trying to start shit and being an anti-systemd shill

>works on my machine, post your config

>post config

>yeah looks fine idk lol not systemd tho

Why do people so aggressively defend systemd?

Lesson learned, I guess. Next time I'll use Devuan.

>>1068456

So did you figure out if it really was systemd causing the problem?

>>1068532

No clue, honestly. Haven't touched it since, been busy with other things. I've downloaded Devuan since, though, so I'll give that a go and see if it fixes it.

>>1067581

>create an overly complex, bloated and buggy botnet ""init""

<win

No, he just has gained power over the useds of SystemD

>>1068401

> your distribution

as in, built by you?

>>1068578

>as in, built by you?

By that I mean distribution I use, like, obviously. Saying "my distribution" is shorter than saying "the distribution I'm using".

Sadly I think he did. And we all lost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

>>1068537

>>1068532

I FIGURED IT OUT

Something wasn't functioning with my port forwarding. I have no clue why, but I could attempt to connect at port 22, and it would start giving me the go ahead to log in and just give me permission denied. For other ports, it would just give me connection refused, so I assumed it was forwarding. Don't know why it would act that way, but it's nice to get it fixed, at least.

>>1068714

>Sadly I think he did. And we all lost.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo

I've just watched the whole video. The guy is a really good speaker (just like Lennart), but the speech stinks a lot. He doesn't mention alternatives. A lot of things he mentions as virtues of systemd have been solved by different distributions in the other way, without having a bloated platform, for example containers. People think containers are deus ex machina, while a good functional package manager like Guix or Nix fixes the problem of dependency hell. Guix System instead of a container uses just a shell environment - simple and lightweight solution. It offers using linux containers too, but it doesn't hard depend on them.

https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/Invoking-guix-environment.html#Invoking-guix-environment

He also said having a lot of configuration files in different languages is bad. Guix solves it too, system-wide configuration is available, but it doesn't force you to replace programs you're already using - there are special wrappers that translate program's native language to scheme. A bit bloated solution, but still better than systemd's to replace everything with it. And GNU's process supervisor, the replacement for sysv init - Shepherd is small and doesn't depend on unnecessary things, just language it is written in (GNU Guile). Easy to understand, easy to port, easy to bugfix. Systemd could be portable too like Guix, but they chose it not to be.

The guy also shows Unix brain damage and tries to convince people in this way:

<Our old house is burning, let's jump out of the window without thinking about what we jump at.

He uses the argument that "familiar is nice, familiar is comfortable, but it doesn't always mean that it is good", but then he says that change is good and we should jump on systemd. He also shows systemd as the only choice.

And he uses the fragment of an old UNIX man page, saying that init can also mount filesystems and start daemons, to justify what systemd does. So first he shows "lol unix is so old, typewriters :-DDD" and then "Look this is just like in systemd". This kinds of contradictions shows that this is just a propaganda - he uses arguments systemd lovers want to hear.

The interesting part is also when he says that software is buggy. Yes it is, but the bigger a program is, the more bugs it has. Using a big, buggy program as init could lead to the OS being completely unusable, therefore it should be minimalistic, like for example GNU Shepherd. As an example he shows project of a systemd opponent and shows it had critical bugs, the project name is OpenLDAP. From wikipedia you can read LDAP is

<The Lightweight Directory Access Protocol (LDAP /ˈɛldæp/) is an open, vendor-neutral, industry standard application protocol for accessing and maintaining distributed directory information services over an Internet Protocol (IP) network.

, so your entire system won't crash, like with systemd. These are completely different things and it's like comparing kernel security with security of a browser.

<UNIX is dead

Great argument, if you really think Linux is the operating system and don't know about GNU. He calls portability a "pathological diversity" and tries to convince people that systemd can dictate how "Linux the system" should work and that "Linux community" wants that direction.

OK I'm tired thanks to this shit. The show seems to be legitimate at first, but it you look closer you can see him not actually answering questions. He just laughs at all arguments the opposite site has like "Ahahahah UNIX typewriters", "Hahaha portability", "Lol FreeBSD, Linux is in such a great position, systemd can dictate how the entire system works", "Oh no, you're evil, stop offending Lennart", "Yeah devs are a bit unhelpful, but bug reporters ARE THE PROBLEM TOOOOO".

Guess he's paid by IBM/RedHat fake BSD systemd shill.

And I have to actually study systemd's architecture now. Because they say systemd isn't bloated and monolithic, and can be compiled to many files. The real question is how easy is it to remove one of these things, because the overall architecture could be monolithic, not just a binary file.

>>1050736

NetBSD is adding zfs support soon, too.

It's going to be the first BSD to reach usable state anytime now.

This systemd niggerizarion is what prompted me to switch to Devuan, but I’m looking to move completely away from Linux. I’ve already switched my home server to OpenBSD and it was completely painless.

>>1050162

Good, maybe /tech/ can stop talking about this piece of shit. At least half of the bumped threads are Linux related.

>>1068808

How does Guix unifies the system configuration? Is it just a wrapper that, after you edit a Guix file, you run a command and it changes another program's config file according to what you have described in the Guix file?

I could just RTFM, but I'm not going to skim a book-sized manual and read an entire section while deciphering the software's concepts just to find out how it does something.

I agree with you, solving the problem of having dozens of different languages and mechanisms for configuring programs by just replacing those programs by ones of the same vendor/project is a shitty solution that turns out to simply lessen and mitigate the user's freedom of choice (loss of freedom of choice is the major complain about RedHat/freedesktop stuff). Also, the unified configuration mechanisms implemented by RedHat/freedesktop are shitty: you have to configure core parts of the system in XML or use dconf, which is literally a Windows' Regedit rip-off, to configure graphical applications.

There is already a unified configuring mechanism in unix-like systems: environment variables (and Xresources, for X applications). It's simple, elegant, and does not require the developer to implement a parser in its software to read config files, nor include a bloated XML/dconf library; he just uses an already existent solution provided by the system. I think that a better solution would be that the system manages the environment variables of spawned programs. Like, you set in a dotfile the values of the environment variables that you want certain program to use; and, when you run it, the kernel/init sets its envars accordingly.

PS: wtf I thought lispfag were the against-minimalism and embrace-the-bloat kind of guy.

>>1069318

I also think that plan9 solution is elegant as well: the configuration is done by just mounting the filesystem.

If you want to use some command as editor just bind it to /bin/edit or something like that; if you want to set the path of binaries, just mount them to /bin/; if you want to use some system or software instead of another, just mount/bind it in the right place. The developer does not even have to care about configuration and can just use hardcoded filesystem paths since the system will set what that filesystem points to.

>>1069318

>How does Guix unifies the system configuration? Is it just a wrapper that, after you edit a Guix file, you run a command and it changes another program's config file according to what you have described in the Guix file?

It seems to work like that.

Watch this video from 9:05 to 12:10. I don't know technical details, but in this video Ludovic explains a bit

https://fosdem.org/2019/schedule/event/gnuguixminimalism/

And also you can check out the manual https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/en/html_node/System-Configuration.html#System-Configuration

>It's simple, elegant, and does not require the developer to implement a parser in its software to read config files, nor include a bloated XML/dconf library;

But it doesn't seem to work, because variables don't give developers enough flexibility they need in their programs, so they rather implement their shitty own language instead. Watch the entire video, to find out why Scheme is a good language for extending things. Scheme is much more than just static environment variables, on Guix System you define packages in scheme, configure your programs and services (you can actually define how to handle daemons with the Shepherd) and core components are written in Scheme too - the Guix package manager is mostly written in it and the Shepherd entirely. It's a great way to unify everything. With GNU Guile (scheme implementation), you can easily extend your program written in C or any other supported language. So if people like Guix, they can make their software be extensible using Scheme, which would make the whole system configurations a lot easier. That's the way a system should be unified - by providing quality solutions and making it profitable for people to use them. Systemd doesn't provide quality solutions so it has to force people to use it by taking over projects and useful components.

>PS: wtf I thought lispfag were the against-minimalism and embrace-the-bloat kind of guy.

Unfortunately we're not a hive mind yet and by that we have different opinions. And Scheme is a minimalistic programming language - the syntax, features and standards provided by the language are pretty minimalistic. There are more bloated LISP dialects, for example common lisp or racket (AFAIK).

I personally like some ideas UNIX brought, for example cooperation of small programs doing one thing well, but I don't like the brain damage like null-terminated strings - they cause more problems than they solve, we're not on PDP-11 anymore.

>>1069322

>If you want to use some command as editor just bind it to /bin/edit or something like that; if you want to set the path of binaries, just mount them to /bin/; if you want to use some system or software instead of another, just mount/bind it in the right place.

But what would happen if one user uses X text editor and another uses Y text editor? On Guix each user have a profile file which have links to the store.

>>1069330

>minimal

>interpreted language with garbage collection

pick one

>>1069318

>I thought lispfag were the against-minimalism and embrace-the-bloat kind of guy

There is a big difference between minimalism (do the job with as little bling as possible) and unix "minimalism" (don't actually do the entire job and tell the users to suck it). As the other guy, typically for a Schemer, said before, Common Lisp is not exactly minimal; though in my experience anything large written in Scheme usually ends up badly reimplementing a lot of the "bloat" of Common Lisp adhoc, which is exactly what happened in Guile.

Tight integration is actually pretty typical on Lisp systems, to the point where it clashes with the idea of small interacting programs. Consider that Unix processes are basically gimped, degenerate, prematurely optimized function calls. This works with C under Unix because of the small runtime ("Unix supports nothing"), but this kind of optimization gets in the way when the runtime becomes large and you want more complex kinds of combination.

>>1069341

>pick one

There's a difference between minimalism and not having a feature at all.

>minimal

>language having variables

pick one

>>1069343

All this plan9 stuff sounds similar to the Hurd.

>>1069354

>As the other guy, typically for a Schemer, said before, Common Lisp is not exactly minimal; though in my experience anything large written in Scheme usually ends up badly reimplementing a lot of the "bloat" of Common Lisp adhoc, which is exactly what happened in Guile.

Could you give me an example please?

>There is a big difference between minimalism (do the job with as little bling as possible) and unix "minimalism" (don't actually do the entire job and tell the users to suck it).

No wonder systemd is so successful then. People were just tired of this. But why don't things like Upstart didn't succeed? Canonical had been backing it and nothing happened. Is it because RedHat is stronger, or because systemd is a platform and that's what people actually wanted?

>>1069354

>There is a big difference between minimalism (do the job with as little bling as possible) and unix "minimalism" (don't actually do the entire job and tell the users to suck it)

In many cases this translates to some faggot crying "what do you mean I'm supposed to use the programs

together?"

>>1069374

>But why don't things like Upstart didn't succeed? Canonical had been backing it and nothing happened.

Because Upstart also sucked. The only reasons people bring that clusterfuck anymore are to push a narrative that the Linux world was forced to choose between it and systemd, and to give Poettering a punching bag when he extols the virtues of systemd.

>>1069374

The most blatant example would be all the various object systems in various Schemes. The features missing from Scheme due to "inelegance" are actually useful, which is why people add them after the fact, but of course everybody does it differently and incompatibly. I singled out Guile because it is an example of an extremely large and inelegant Scheme though being a GNU project played its part in there too.

>>1069382

I can't speak for the cases you see, but I'm thinking of pointless restrictions and obvious implementation details bleeding into the interface. "Pipe A into B" also only works for really simple things.

>>1050156 (OP)

>>systemd is now the default for most Linux distros

does this mean systemd is good?

>>1069395

Being a normalfag is also the default for most people. Does this mean normalfaggotry is good?

>>1069396

I hate sageniggers, so yes.

>dying

systemd IS the alternative nigger you forget systemd did not exist a few years ago.

systemd hate isnt even about init anyway people dont like systemd because

#1 it was FORCED on people all of a sudden.

#2 other programs REQUIRING systemd is a big problem and should NEVER happen there is no reason why a specific init system should be required to run gnome or whatever

#3 bloat getting bigger and bigger lol systemd replacing MOUNT

#4 likely a botnet or huge security holes.

systemd could have been a good init by itself but it just got too big like pottering's ego. I dont understand him, he takes apple's perfect software that works great then makes his own bootleg versions that run like shit just copy 1:1 and u would be hailed as the hero of linux bro

also binary logs are retarded

>>1072807

>implying gas chambers existed aside from delousing chambers

kys kike

>>1072887

>hitler dindu nuffin the holoHOAX didn't happen

>oh btw hitler was a great guy for gassing the jews haha

>wait fuck

>i mean he was a great guy for totally not having but totally should having gassed the jews

>heil