/tech/ - Technology★

Vim binding ironically works wonder in every other software except text editing, modal editing is just a flawed concept.

>>1032065

muh less keystrokes over multiple edits, I like modal editing

Neovim, good defaults and handles its own plugins well.

>>1032065

I wouldn't say modal editing is worse after using it for a while, specially with plugins, but time would be better spent learning Steno for the least amount of keystrokes universally.

https://github.com/openstenoproject/plover/wiki/Stenography-overview

>vim

Try Neovim.

>>1032063

Hey, textadept looks really good and not even only for coding. (I like to write sometimes) It also doesn't have all the cruft the others have. I might stick with it, thanks!

>>1032058 (OP)

I use Neovim with makefiles for automation of tasks (e.g. when I write something in LaTeX I have a makefile to compile my document instead of invoking pdflatex manually). I have a shitton of plugins and customizations installed, some of my own, some from other developers. Vim/Neovim is a very nice editor editor out of the box, but if you want to make it a real powertool you have to get familiar with its scripting features. Start small, set a couple of options to your liking and over time you will settle in, don't try to take all of Vimscript at once. And with Neovim you can also write plugins in any language you want, so you do not have to use the retarded Vim scripting language.

I haven't tried Language Server Protocol yet, I think that has the potential to be a real killer feature.

I use Sublime Text 3

>>1032058 (OP)

I use neovim mostly.

I find modal editing fast. But you should test this out by forcing yourself to write at least 100 loc. Is modal editing great? lol no it's way way slower than the mouse for a lot of things and most implementations are developed as if you will be primarily thinking about editing rather than the text. Like you see a missing semi-colon "oh shit wwww oops b shit e a ;" and some editor fag is like durr you shoulda done "f ] a ;" or something. Meanwhile the mouse fag just clicked there and typed ; with zero thought.

There is some jump thing I saw once which I'll have to try because binary search is surely the way to solve this.

I also use emacs. But like everyone who uses emacs it's nothing like default emacs. I ended up making my own version of spacemacs, for the great UI but with way less stuff. Pic related.

I do use LibreOffice too. I don't really like it but if you need to write a document or you have any screenshots you want to include there's not much alternative.

>>1032109

>>I do use LibreOffice too. I don't really like it but if you need to write a document or you have any screenshots you want to include there's not much alternative.

I run gentoo on a not-too-strong machine and because of that I like small programs with small dependencies. Try Ted. It's a WYSIWYG rich-text editor which is feature-complete regarding the .rtf format. I use it when I have to write a letter or something, it's very lightweight.

>>1032063

botnet

>>1032123

howso?

geany

>>1032109

> I find modal editing fast. But you should test this out by forcing yourself to write at least 100 loc. Is modal editing great? lol no it's way way slower than the mouse for a lot of things and most implementations are developed as if you will be primarily thinking about editing rather than the text. Like you see a missing semi-colon "oh shit wwww oops b shit e a ;" and some editor fag is like durr you shoulda done "f ] a ;" or something. Meanwhile the mouse fag just clicked there and typed ; with zero thought.

I am a former mousefag, and the mousefag way is shit. First you have to move your hand over to the mouse, move around the cursor to even see where it is, move it over to the character, possibly overshooting in the process, then move my hands back to the keyboard and type the character I want, and then repeat the same process to get back to where I was. It's not a big deal once or twice, but the constant small motions add up to a lot of shoulder pain.

> and some editor fag is like durr you shoulda done "f ] a ;" or something.

Yes, that is the proper way of doing it. Don't complain that your tool is ineffective when you don't know how to use it properly. That's like saying riding a bicycle is faster than driving a car, just because you don't know how to shift gears and always drive in the first one.

>>1032058 (OP)

I unironically use gnu emacs with nearly vanilla keybindings. I use emacs (eshell) as my terminal emulator, and I run most programs, such as git, in eshell, instead of using an extension.

>>1032255

>I can't reliably move the mouse to the correct position on the screen

>I fluently know the exact command to perform any edit in vim

Yeah I totally believe you.

>>1032302

>he doesn't know you can use the mouse and keys

I've been using ed lately.

>>1032101

based

>>1032302

it is if you want to get to a specific symbol on some line. just one click compared to holding the arrow key for a minute on some shitty terminal editor

I mostly use Emacs and will probably continue to do so.

But for the last couple of weeks I've been doing a lot of my work in Acme. It's an interesting style of editing and actually very comfortable once you get used to it. I haven't yet encountered a problem that wasn't possible to accomplish through shell programs or Acme's Edit language.

vis. I can't speak objectively as to whether modal editing is faster than mouse (although I believe it is), but I am very confident that modal editing is way more braindead than using the mouse, doing most things doesn't require you to think at all. I've been thinking about getting into the other plan9 editors like acme or sam or whatever but it seems unintuitive to me and I have no real reason to switch.

>>1032306

>Yeah I totally believe you.

Why wouldn't I know the commands? There aren't that many anyway. Vim's commands are not keyboard shortcuts, they are a language. When you know the grammar of a language you don't have to memorize a million individual sentences, you only need to memorize the words, then you can form the sentences on the fly.

>>1032306

>he doesn't know you can use the mouse and keys

How are you going to use the mouse with your right hand, and type the semicolon, which is also on the right-hand side of the keyboard?

>>1032342

>be me

>:42

>shift-A

<be you

<takes hand off of keyboard

<moves hand over to mouse

<moves mouse around to find cursor

<accelerates mouse to desired position

<decelerates mouse to avoid overshooting desired position

<clicks the desired position

<hits the arrow key if he landed one-off

>>1032342

>be me

>mouse broke

>have to use gui programs using only keyboard

>install gentoo

>start finding and installing programs that work with keyboard only through trial and error

>use firefox derivative

>want to reply to post

>after much search use ctrl+f and typing out post number and then ctrl+a and ctrl+c to copy said number typed out

>to get to positions have to ctrl+f to nearest word press escape to close ctrl+f interface and tab to select and do action like press enter or type text

>this take less then a second if you type fast

All of this so I could tell you, you are a faggot

>use terminal

>use sway+qterminal+nano

>ctrl+w to find and or replace text recursively and ctrl+k to copy, then ctrl+u to paste between documents or in file, no mouse and no xorg/gui needed

mousefags btfo. Can emacs or vim copy+paste between different documents without creating a new file entirely?

Another shit story

>want to use settings tab in browser and or other gui without mouse

>after much search pressing ALT selects said settings to them use arrow keys in

another

>want to tab backwards to select things

>use shift+tab, it just werkz on all my shitty gui programs

losing my mouse usability taught me things. It was nice. Now its faster for me to do everything except selecting specific elements on a webbrowser with javascript enabled on a javascript heavy page with a mouse. tabbing and ctrl+f fail with javascript heavy shit. So just disable javascript and use less cancerous websites.

editors are for linux idiots

we, at Microsoft, use IDE, called Microsoft Visual Studio, which is superior to your shit editors like vim

>>1032410

> Can emacs or vim copy+paste between different documents without creating a new file entirely?

Do you mean within the same instance of the editor? In Vim it's y (yank) to copy some text, d (delete) to cut it, and p (put) to insert it. If you want to copy-paste something using the global clipboard you have to prefix everything with "+ (i.e. instead of y to copy to Vim's clipboard you press "+y). The " stands for "the next character is the name of a register" and + is the name of the system clipboard register. There can be many registers, and if none is specified a default one is used.

>>1032356

We can all LARP about text editing. There are even entire communities based on it. But I'm talking about editing text IRL.

>>1032356

>>1032391

>how do you move your hands

special needs /tech/

Sublime text

>>1032483

the registers shit only works on most distros if you install gvim and have blaot X11 running, not ideal if you're a real larper using only the tty

>>1032081

Does anyone want to compete with each other in learning this?

I've only got a few hours head start, so it's realistic for you to catch up to me.

>>1032493

In Neovim you can hook up your own clipboard tool. The most common ones are supported out of the box, buy you can define your own special snowflake tool that no one else uses if you want to. Neovim is designed to hook up to tools called providers instead of baking these things into the editor (I don't know how Vim does it, but I think they just bake everything in).

Clipboard integration 			      *provider-clipboard* *clipboard*

Nvim has no direct connection to the system clipboard. Instead it depends on
a |provider| which transparently uses shell commands to communicate with the
system clipboard or any other clipboard "backend".

To ALWAYS use the clipboard for ALL operations (instead of interacting with
the '+' and/or '*' registers explicitly): >
    set clipboard+=unnamedplus

See 'clipboard' for details and options.

							      *clipboard-tool*
The presence of a working clipboard tool implicitly enables the '+' and '*'
registers. Nvim looks for these clipboard tools, in order of priority:

  - |g:clipboard|
  - pbcopy, pbpaste (macOS)
  - wl-copy, wl-paste (if $WAYLAND_DISPLAY is set)
  - xclip (if $DISPLAY is set)
  - xsel (if $DISPLAY is set)
  - lemonade (for SSH) https://github.com/pocke/lemonade
  - doitclient (for SSH) http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/doit/
  - win32yank (Windows)
  - tmux (if $TMUX is set)

								 *g:clipboard*
To configure a custom clipboard tool, set g:clipboard to a dictionary.
For example this configuration integrates the tmux clipboard: >

    let g:clipboard = {
          \   'name': 'myClipboard',
          \   'copy': {
          \      '+': 'tmux load-buffer -',
          \      '*': 'tmux load-buffer -',
          \    },
          \   'paste': {
          \      '+': 'tmux save-buffer -',
          \      '*': 'tmux save-buffer -',
          \   },
          \   'cache_enabled': 1,
          \ }

If "cache_enabled" is |TRUE| then when a selection is copied Nvim will cache
the selection until the copy command process dies. When pasting, if the copy
process has not died the cached selection is applied.

g:clipboard can also use functions (see |lambda|) instead of strings.
For example this configuration uses the g:foo variable as a fake clipboard: >

    let g:clipboard = {
          \   'name': 'myClipboard',
          \   'copy': {
          \      '+': {lines, regtype -> extend(g:, {'foo': [lines, regtype]}) },
          \      '*': {lines, regtype -> extend(g:, {'foo': [lines, regtype]}) },
          \    },
          \   'paste': {
          \      '+': {-> get(g:, 'foo', [])},
          \      '*': {-> get(g:, 'foo', [])},
          \   },
          \ }

The "copy" function stores a list of lines and the register type. The "paste"
function returns the clipboard as a `[lines, regtype]` list, where `lines` is
a list of lines and `regtype` is a register type conforming to |setreg()|.

>>1032123

How is it botnet? Is this bait?

>>1032410

Emacs has the kill ring, which is basically list of all the stuff you've copied/cut. If you want to interact with the X clipboard from the terminal, you can use the xclip package.

>>1032058 (OP)

Depends on what language I'm using. In the past I would use vim or sublime text, but when I started working on larger projects with some specific languages and settings, an IDE was a necessity. Now I use vscode for c/c++, even though I don't like microsoft, it's just the most convenient editor for linux (as sublime is dying). I run it with firejail (without networking) because telemetry but it's still surprisingly fast. And when I need to edit something quickly, I just use vim.

>>1032301

gnu emacs' vanilla keybindings are mostly fine but you should remap caps lock -> ctrl

>>1032681

lol retard

>>1032675

If you use the X version of emacs *which you should already be doing*, it shares the kill ring with your X clipboard.

Notepad++ for everyday use.

Notepadqq because math rendering is awesome https://notepadqq.com/wp/2018/04/introducing-math-rendering-in-notepadqq-1-4/ (and don't want to install a X GB TeX system).

010 Editor because all the open source editors which can do hex and large files suck.

>>1032687

Caps on ctrl makes many bindings on the left side of the keyboard awkward.

Get a proper keyboard (not chiclet) and press control with your palm or the base of your pinky. This is very comfortable, symmetrical and makes the whole keyboard available.

>>1032058 (OP)

switched from vim to acme. i have never made a better choice in my life, and probably never will. i see now why emacs is so powerful, but acme gives me the power of emacs without all the bloat and (((elisp))) to deal with

>>1033545

Well, if you only worry about startup time aspect of the bloat, you can run emacs in (server-mode t) and open many emacsclients with lightning speed. it also works really well with tiling wm since all buffers and clipboards are connected to the same instance of emacs, no longer have to use the autistic default keybind chain switching between panes.

>>1033564

>>1033545

Emacs niggers will be crying "bloat" and trying to implement text editing capability into their autistic OS until the heat death of the universe. This is scientific fact. LEd is king, LEd is love, LEd is life. Long live LEd.

>>1032306

Pressing a key doesn't have much room for error the way mouse movement does. If you hit a key, you know it's gonna do what you wanted. You can do it blindly. Not the same for a mouse.

>>1032428

nice false flag bro... I know you're using vim right now

>>1033569

No, you can't do it blindly. You can't do either blindly. I don't think you understand what being blind entails. It means you can't see. As in, your eyes do not function. You do not possess the sense of vision. You cannot see characters on the screen. To say you can make any edit in vim blindly is nonsensical unless you were some sort of blind savant with a phonographic memory of where every single character in your code was, and also a screen reader. You're full of shit, and in conclusion are trying to justify all the effort that went into learning autistic keystrokes for no other reason than to think of yourself in some bizarre way superior to mouse users. Now if you could please let the adults continue this discussion it would be appreciated. Thank you.

>>1032410

>not using mouse keys

>>1033566

And there's nothing you can do about it, lisp machine lives on while you stopped breeding.

>>1033577

Only until you realize your folly and switch to LEd. There is still hope even for niggers like you.

>>1033585

Nope, I'm okay

>>1036486

>spoonfeed me software recommendations even though I wouldn't even notice the differences between the two

>uses void linux

no surprises here

anyone using textadept or moe?

moe is just a cheap copy of joe with half the features.

There's also ne which I personally found easy to use and which I'm using currently. It doesn't require the autism you need to use vim effectively but is still powerful. No scripting beyond macros but tbh I never used scripting in any editor where I just purely edit text files. Who ever needs that? Usually it makes more sense and is simpler to process text through external programs like awk, and ne lets you do that with the filter function.

Vim, emacs and similar all have the problem for me that they rely on completely mental keyboard sequences to be really powerful, shit nobody in their right mind is going to learn who hasn't used these editors for 10+ years. emacs is slightly worse in that regard as it's keyboard chords are absolutely mental, vim at least makes some sense if you see it as a language of sorts, but is still way too complicated really. Maybe I'm just stupid but I don't have that kind of memory for functions I might use twice a year. I like editors who have a simple menu for me to select such functions and ne does that but also doesn't get in your way if you have keyboard shortcuts memorized.

>>1036801

>too brainlet to use a text editor

At that point, what could you possibly write that others would want?

>>1033564

>needing to start up a server just to edit files

with acme, i am truly connected to every aspect of my UNIX system. i don't need to write in (((elisp))) to get my program to work. i just made a script that'll browse reddit inside acme. i can just right-click on the links it presents and it automatically pops up in icecat. now i'm working on another script to let me see the latest threads on this board.

who needs (((lisp))) when you've got programs that do one thing really well and pipes?

>>1032058 (OP)

Fullscreen terminal. Using tmux, vertical split screen with vim on left (usually with two vim "windows", one for header one for implementation), on the right a horizontal split with the upper window used for compiling/compiler output, and the lower window for program output. Works on any system with minimal overhead, both locally or over ssh.

>>1036905

This.

I'm no advanced user but today is actually the end of my first day, and I have already set up a few nvim plugins with vim-plug, memorized the tutor, and learned a bit from random help pages.

I liked it so much I tried to set up nvim as my terminal emulator, it would've been a bit bloated because it's a nvim terminal running within a terminal, but I gave up because it turns out you can't edit commands you're typing.