/strek/ - Star Trek ★

there's literally nothing wrong with being subjugated by the dominion

they keep order

quark might have had a perfectly normal business among htem if he didn't have the misfortune of being surrounded by jem hadar

Better question is Dominion vs Borg.

Some non-canon sources have the Dominion having territory equally in size to the Borg. If that gets considered canon that would mean the Dominion would be perhaps the only power in the Galaxy that could single handledly challenge the Borg.

>>7300

>there's literally nothing wrong with being subjected to the whims of a bunch of lunatics who view you as a dispensable domestic animal

How β of you. Not saying that there's nothing wrong with borg, but at least there you're participating as somewhat equal being, striving for perfection. What can you strive for under dominion?

>>7302

>that could single handledly challenge the Borg.

And loose. A single cube almost wiped the floor with the federation. The best the Dominion could hope for is making victory too costly to be worth it for the Borg.

>>7304

>A single cube almost wiped the floor with the federation

Which frankly isn't a good measuring stick considering Federation ships tend to be lost almost weekly due to shit like the common cold mutating and taking over the ship.

>The best the Dominion could hope for is making victory too costly to be worth it for the Borg.

Considering the Dominion have vastly superiour manufacturing capabilities and a much larger fleet they most likely could do so easily.

>>7302

>Better question is Dominion vs Borg.

The changelings have nothing to fear from the Borg because you can't assimilate a being made out of liquid. The Borg to the Dominion would only really be a big nuisance that they keep at bay, not an enemy of theirs to be destroyed.

Then there's how the Borg share a very common philosophy of wanting control over individuals which is what the Dominion wants as well. The Borg just does it in a more arguably communist way by removing individuality rather than the Dominion's fascist approach.

>>7305

>superiour manufacturing capabilities

Meant in regards to any race in the Alpha Quadrant or likely the Borg have seen.

Then again Voyager completely nerfed the Borg, so if we go by that example Dominion would seem to have a chance to win

>>7306

>The changelings have nothing to fear from the Borg because you can't assimilate a being made out of liquid

Was it ever established that was the case?

>>7307

>Was it ever established that was the case?

I don't remember any Borg episodes in DS9. It doesn't really make sense that a being made out of pure liquid with no bloodstream or physical brain would be capable of having a neural network permanently hooked up to them.

Especially since the Changeling biology also requires that they become liquid regularly. As evidenced by the episode where Odo is tortured by not being allowed to change his form. So even if they could do it, it wouldn't occur permanently.

>>7307

>>7308

According to Memory Beta they actually did this in a novel. Although this is Memory Beta so still not canon.

"Changelings also proved difficult to assimilate; when a Borg drone attempted to assimilate a Founder in 2376 the changeling was able to alter its form and crush the nanoprobes into a ball, preventing them from taking over its cells." (DS9 novel: Lesser Evil)

>>7302

There are hundreds of powers in the galaxy that can demolish the Borg. Kevin Uxbridge could totally obliterate them if he felt like it. The Borg couldn't do anything against the Organians.

The Dominion are more or less an expansionist power at the same tech level as the Alpha Quadrant. If any of the 'higher' races (like Trelane's parents) gave a shit they could take over everything.

>>7304

>A single cube almost wiped the floor with the federation.

40 federation ships, not the entire federation.

The dominion on the other hand, has, presumably thousands of ships and the industrial capacity to outproduce the alpha powers combined. The main problem for the dominion during the war was getting their ships through the wormhole in the first place.

And against the borg, the dominion has several advantages over the regular powers. The Jem'Hadar can be replaced rapidly, so high attrition rates can be sustained by the dominion. Many Jem'Hadar favour meleeweapons, which borg seem to have trouble adapting to, combined with their fanatism, this would likely result in farhigher casualty rates for borgdrones during ground combat or in boarding actions. And due to the Jem'Hadar's biology, unless the borg can produce Ketracel White, none of the Jem'Hadar the borg might have assimilated would be able to survive for long.

And on top of all that, dominion ships are supposedly more powerful than their feddie counterparts.

The biggest disadvantage would be the borg being functionally immune to changeling infiltration.

Even if borg manage to adapt to dominion weapons, the war would still be far more costly for the borg than an invasion of all the alpha powers would be for the borg.

>>7341

>due to the Jem'Hadar's biology, unless the borg can produce Ketracel White, none of the Jem'Hadar the borg might have assimilated would be able to survive for long.

I thought there were borg-ified Jem'Hadar on Voyager. Presumably nanoprobes would alter their structure to consume the same nutrients as other borg.

If it were the scary adaptive BoBW Borg, the Dominion would be raped hard. Voyager pants on head Retarded Borg is more of an even matchup. The Borg still probably win due to numbers.

>>7299 (OP)

Dominion.

>>7341

>And due to the Jem'Hadar's biology, unless the borg can produce Ketracel White, none of the Jem'Hadar the borg might have assimilated would be able to survive for long.

I assume the nanites would be more than capable of removing the need for Ketracel White, either by removing the biological component completely or suppressing the withdrawal symptoms. If it's a case of they'll die without it, I believe it wouldn't be hard for the Borg to acquire a sample and manufacture it in mass quantities, to be distributed at all Jem'Haddar rechard stations. The addition of the Jem'Haddar warriors would more than make up for the resources used to make it.

>>7352

>>7343

Supposedly Ketracel White is the only nutrition Jem'Hadar need, so modifying assimilated drones to not need it would be like modifying assimilated humans to not need to eat food.

Its not theoretically impossible, but it would require a awful lot of modifications for that one group of borg drones.

Strategically speaking, during a protracted war, this would mean an added strain of the resources of the borg.

>Borg invade Dominion Space

>Dominion adopt a "We have more ships than you have drones" policy

>Turns whole invasion literally into the equivalent of the Battle of Stalingrad but in Space

>>7396

Huh, apparently browsers don't work well with SAR other than 1:1…

Assimilated. Cyborgs are awesome and I'd have purpose and everyone will be forced to be my friend in the collective since our minds are linked. The Dominion on the other hand is just more of the same. A gigantic USA ran by lies and manipulation. Everyone is afraid of losing individuality, but destroying the ego and joining a mass consciousness is the ultimate goal of many philosophies. The Borg would have had some willing converts. The experience of being Borg for Hue and Seven of Nine was never bothered them until after the fact when Starfleet started putting their personal jewified ideas in their head. The reality of being borg however would be the ultimate enlightenment to ones own intelligence and euphoric euphoria having totally destroyed the ego and having the limitations of self expanded by the minds of billions all in harmony. You not only become a drone but the entirety of the Borg. By allowing your ego to be destroyed you'd become godlike. It'd be paradise. The Borg did nothing wrong.

>>7299 (OP)

>Would you rather be subjugated by

That's Louis C.uc.K loser talk. I'd rather fight the Borg vs the Dominion, Borgs are more easily identifiable soviet styled space commies. The Dominion are closer to globalist gommies shapeshifting saboteurs.

>>7403

>and everyone will be forced to be my friend in the collective

Fedora of One, the Borg assimilated you only for your vast collection of duranium alloy bat'leth of which they will melt down for the metals alone and add to their collective.

Someone should redo that image of the Jew in the sea of blood to a Founder half formed in the great link, asking "why do they persecute me so?"

>>7396

Why is she drinking semen from a ''cup?'

>but doesn't it bother anyone that ultimately, you let your agency be erased?

I can't even wrap my head around that statement. Being a mindless cog in the machine allows you MORE agency than pledging your loyalty to the Changelings? The Dominion is the Federation of the Gamma Quadrant. If you pay your taxes and obey the law of the land (ie. don't bomb shit), you're free to do what you like. Live in the sticks and you'll never see anything more than the occasional Vorta commissioner.

>except it's for shapeshifters and as a solid, you're a cattle to them.

That's vampire talk. Changelings would see us more as farm equipment.

>>7388

>Supposedly Ketracel White is the only nutrition Jem'Hadar need, so modifying assimilated drones to not need it would be like modifying assimilated humans to not need to eat food.

Pretty sure Seven doesn't eat a whole lot of food until she's gone native in Voyager. She charges up and I seem to recall some sort of paste-machine, although to be honest, I might be thinking of Robocop.

>Strategically speaking, during a protracted war, this would mean an added strain of the resources of the borg.

Unless you have nanotech, in which case you can sic the nanites on a moon and watch as they convert it, molecule by molecule, into enough KW to cause all Jem'Haddar to immediately surrender in return for the privilege of dying on it.

>>7299 (OP)

Dominion.

>But you have to pay taxes to the Dominion

Your wealth is limited by Federation regulations already

>But you have to obey the Dominion's laws that probably restrict your freedoms

Your ideology is restricted to the correct viewpoints of the Federation or else you get put through sensitivity training or some shit (seriously, how do all these Federation opinions about equality and shit stay in place if there isn't?). These ideological precepts you have to obey by proxy restrict your freedoms to obeying the Federation.

Sure, the Federation is doing it because it likes you, and the Dominion is doing it because it tolerates you, but I can at least think of one silver lining that the Dominion has: the Dominion will never expect you to fight for it. Given that the entire Dominion military is the Jem'Hadar, I'm unwanted on the battlefield, yet I won't be punished for it. I have every reason to believe that if starved for man-power, the Federation will draft me to go fight for its own political goals.

Oh wait, I was supposed to compare the Dominion and the Borg? Whoops.

>>7299 (OP)

between brainwashing and just having to kow-tow to puddle-people i'd pick death.

>>7471

>Your ideology is restricted to the correct viewpoints of the Federation or else you get put through sensitivity training or some shit (seriously, how do all these Federation opinions about equality and shit stay in place if there isn't?)

Conjecture.

>I have every reason to believe that if starved for man-power, the Federation will draft me to go fight for its own political goals.

As opposed to Dominion who will do about anything to you if they feel that it helps them. And you can always leave the federation and go elsewhere. I wouldn't be so sure about dominion.

>>7504

>As opposed to Dominion who will do about anything to you if they feel that it helps them.

As is documented multiple times, the Federation does this also.

>>7504

>you can always leave the federation and go elsewhere

>What is the Maquis, the post.

>>7421

>Someone should redo that image of the Jew in the sea of blood to a Founder half formed in the great link, asking "why do they persecute me so?"

Sensiblechuckle.gif

>>7471

>the Dominion will never expect you to fight for it. Given that the entire Dominion military is the Jem'Hadar, I'm unwanted on the battlefield, yet I won't be punished for it.

Wha? Nah if things get desperate enough the Dominion will have no qualms chucking your ass into the fight as cannon fodder. Look at what happened during the final siege with the Founders in Cardassia prime. Everyone and everything that isn't a member of the Founders were fair game to throw into the battle.

>>7522

Except that's wrong.

The Breen pretty much demanded they be put at the frontlines and the Founders were trying to talk them out of it.

>>7525

They had no qualms about having Cardassians fight on the front lines.

>>7525

>Except that's wrong.

>The Breen pretty much demanded they be put at the frontlines and the Founders were trying to talk them out of it.

IIRC wasn't that because the Breen had the shield disrupting weapon tech that was the tits at the time, and the Founders did not want to risk the tech falling into the Feds should one of the Breen ships got defeated and captured. The view of the Founders had of the Breens or any of their allies during the war seemed mostly strategic and "what can you do for me". It might serve the Founders strategy at the time to keep the Breens out of too much direct frontline combat. But I doubt it was for concern for the Breen. At least that's how the female Founder representative seems to have acted.

Compared to say Odo, but that guy was not raised in the Great Link.

>>7526

Except Cardassians had rebelled in the final siege.

>>7527

Breen tech had already been compromised by then.

>>7528

>Except Cardassians had rebelled in the final siege.

If Damar's speech is true, they had good cause to have rebelled and broke off the treaty with the Dominion.

>Breen tech had already been compromised by then.

K, since it's been a while last time I watched the Dominion war arc. Still, I'm not exactly convinced that the Founders will not chuck anyone that is not a the Chosen PuddlePeople into combat for them or anything else that serves their purpose if the chips are down enough. Wasn't that the whole point of Odo joining the Great Link, to teach the Founders that the solids are not goy- I mean cattle.

>>7531

Well they were bombing their cities, the Cardassian fleet rebelled so hard to see how Cardassians would be fighting for Dominion.

>>7512

I meant "pack your bags and leave" not secede. But even that shouldn't be a big problem. The Maquis are different case, as far as I know there wasn't any referendum or formal attempts at secession from the Federation, and they were stealing shit from the Federation too.

>>7539

>Get left a mercy of foreign aggressor

>Persecuted on your own worlds

>Your very Government that is meant to defend you leaves you to your own devices

>Implying at all you wouldn't have done half the shit Maquis did to protect themselves

The Maquis also were getting ready to cede officially. Federation had pretty much abandoned them in all but name a long time ago.

>>7541

>Federation had pretty much abandoned them in all but name a long time ago.

Actually, that's not true. Federation offered to compensate them, and left those that didn't accept to live under Cardassian rule officially. I don't know where you get that "but name" from. You can't secede from the Federation when they've already given the system over to the Cardassians.

>>7543

>>7541

Hmm I wonder if the maquis situation escalated due to the Federation not wanting bad PR of people leaving it. It might be bad for the recruitment drive.

>So as you can see, these are just the few amazing benefits if your planet signs up today!

>Meh, it looks great but I still have some reservations before I sign on the dotted line. I heard some of your colony planets have problems with roving rapegangs.

>That was just a cultural misunderstanding among rowdy youths.

>I heard when it comes to border treaties and territorial disputes, Starfleet is all too eager to give away planets in many cases.

>Pish posh, we are of course the nicest people in the galaxy but we have our ways of enforcing our territories. Psst, Captainay Jaleconay. But you didn't hear that from me, dig.

>Uhm, the Maquis thing. We heard stories…

>That's all they are! Stories! Fairy tales! Now about the signup treaty, if you sign now you get a free 6month timeshare condo at Risa. Risa, nudge nudge wink wink say no more?

>>7543

>You are now citizens of this goberment goys

>Hey goys just leave your homes that you have built up from your own blood and toil if you don't like it

>What you won't leave? Even if we'll compensate you goyim?

>>7544

I always wondered how Federation recruitment went. Now I have this stuck in my head.

Now, I'm pretty certain we all know that some of the factions are more deliberate archetypes than the series leads on sometimes. The Federation definitely represents America, for instance.

However, have you ever considered that the Dominion is more like American Empirism in the 1800's? As far as DS9 is concerned, there was technically a sort of "civil war" against the ruling occupation as well.

>>7546

Actually Federation represents more the EU more than anything, especially TNG. They want everyone to be a member regardless if it will be beneficial for the people joining or their current members.

>>7544

But weren't the Maquis mostly young-ish Earth colonies, not some poor small member exploited by ebil HUmans?

>>7546

>The Federation definitely represents America, for instance.

It's more the UN. The symbols even look similar.

>>7546

>However, have you ever considered that the Dominion is more like American Empirism in the 1800's? As far as DS9 is concerned, there was technically a sort of "civil war" against the ruling occupation as well.

Dominion is Third Reich. You have the racial species superiority, disregard for suffering of lesser beings, imperialism, collective punishment, willingness to cause destruction for its own sake just to spite the victors, "it's a strategic retreat, soon the alpha quadrant will be ours, I promise!", eugenics, Marshall's Odo's plan … did I miss anything?

>>7553

>But weren't the Maquis mostly young-ish Earth colonies, not some poor small member exploited by ebil HUmans?

Just strictly going from the shows, my impression is anyone officially leaving Starfleet might be bad for optics reason. If the Federation has a reputation even among it's enemies for being almost a utopian paradise and fairly resource and tech rich. The maquis leaving, maquis of all people. That might start raising doubts on how perfect is the Federation really. That shit is not good for planetary pledge drives and membership signups.

Look don't get me wrong, I can be a lazy man at heart. Membership in the Federation probably does have some tangible benefits. If I were in the Maquis situation, I'd probably consider another way of leaving the Feds if I'm not happy with it, but do it in an unofficial way. On paper we're still married, but in practice it's separate houses kind of deal. The Feds love their bureacracy, if there is a way to find a loophole that allows some legal fiction for the Maquis to still be in the Feds but in practice off on their own thing. I'd probably look into that option first.

>>7546

>The Federation definitely represents America, for instance.

There's some American stand ins there but as other anons mentioned, there's definitely UN and EU style organization too. And the head office is not in New York like the UN but in San Francisco iirc. Excuse me a sec, I seem to have some bile rising for some reason when I read that back.

>>7564

The Dominion was successful, unlike Nazi Germany.

>>7564

That's just not true. The Dominion was a hegemony with absolutely no philosophical underpinnings whatsoever. The Dominion is literally just that. Advanced, wealthy, powerful but there's nothing to them. It's just the changeling defense force. Germany was chock full of memes during the fascist takeover. All kinds of memes and occult garbage. I'm sure any number of Nazis were cynical and only wanted the power or nice outfits or whatever, but surely a large portion of them also believed the memes. They believed in perfecting humans or racial souls or stuff like that. It wasn't purely a "German defense force". Though I suppose the comparison isn't entirely without merit.

Also

>imperialism

>The Nazis colonized anything

>They vassalized anyone

>You're not a know-nothing implication machine.

They didn't even have time to do anything resembling that. They occupied a few places, sure, but that's a far cry from puppet-states or any degree of actual control - like the kind you'd see from the Dominion

But uh, to answer your question? Dominion, obviously. Borg stop being people. Doomed to suffer endlessly until you fall apart, at which point they kill you and re-use your parts. Disgusting. Now, those free Borg? Obviously they're augmented to the point of superiority and you'd be dumb not to want that. But normal, garden variety, hivemind linked Borg? You'd be the biggest cuck in cuckistan to pick them. They have a queen, for fucks sake. You'd let some fucking woman decide not just what you're supposed to do, but what you think? When you're a Borg you can't even rebel unless you're a genetic freak (which is some mighty dice to roll, and even then they had to have Janeway help them out). As a dominion vassal you can get your buddies together and try to go full Bajoran terrorist on your oppressors, but as the Borg? You're fucked. You're just a walking hyper-spanner, tricorder, or conduit scrubber and you'll be disassembled the moment you seem like you won't be useful anymore.

>>7539

>I meant "pack your bags and leave"

For a regime that won't let you leave, that wormhole got an awful lot of traffic out to the Bajoran end.

>>7807

Eh… the original TNG borg were much more appealing, that's true.

>As a dominion vassal you can get your buddies together and try to go full Bajoran terrorist on your oppressors

You must be delusional to think that. Best case scenario they'll find you and kill you before running out of patience and annihilating your planet completely.

However perverse the Borg may be, they strive for perfection. Dominion serves some faggot's sense of "order" which basically boils down to "shapeshifter good, solid bad", I don't see how anyone can sense any connection to their philosophy. The best you can hope for is survival in servitude to something you don't believe in - unless you're willing to buy into their philosophy (talk about being "the biggest cuck"). Though I can certainly see the advantages.

>>7875

Afaik the other end is some way from Dominion territory.

>>7879

Borg perfection is reducing you to being a mindless ant in an ant hive.

You think that you get to join the collective and be part of it all, but you don't. The collective is made up of trillions or drones, 99% of which are grown and raised within the collective to be drones. Your voice in the collective will be less than a drop of water in an ocean that doesn't care what you think or want. They do not want to explore, learn or care about your opinion, because none of these things have ever mattered to them.

The collective is not a utopia where you get to enjoy supreme enlightenment and bliss, it is a hell made to perpetuate itself at the expense of anything you might have wanted or cared about. You don't get access to all the knowledge of the borg, you don't get to have fun, you don't even get to do what you want to do, you get to do exactly what you are told to and nothing else.

And in a few minutes you are being send down to some new ship of poor fuckers who just encountered your cube, because the collective needs someone to go in there and get shot, so the next batch of drones can be fitted with shields before being send in. Play nice with the locals and try to learn something about their ship before you die a slow agonising death for the good of the collective.

>>7916

I never claimed that it's a paradise, but drop of water in an ocean is still more than what you get with Dominion as a solid. As I said, it's perverted, but at least the goal is something you can at least partially identify with.

>>7926

>I never claimed that it's a paradise, but drop of water in an ocean is still more than what you get with Dominion as a solid.

This is just nonsense. The Dominion will barely notice you. The Borg will control every aspect of your being to the point it no longer exists.

You can own a house in the Dominion. You can get married, have kids, buy a plant, decide to have chicken for lunch, or play a musical instrument. All these things are explicitly forbidden if you are a Borg.

>>7931

>All these things are explicitly forbidden if you are a Borg.

Who is forbidden, by who?

>>7945

You're confusing having no agency with having no choice at all. The Dominion will allow you to do most ever you want as long as you follow their laws, while the Borg will literally remove your free will.

>>7945

>Who is forbidden, by who?

Are you really retarded enough to think the collective is going to let you do ANYTHING other than your assigned job? Hell, the collective won't even allow you to have an opinion about what you are doing.

>>7299 (OP)

she's so cute

>>7961

Why you gotta ruin Nicole de Boer for me, fam?

>>7969

3d pigs will always let you down.

>>7969

She was always ruined. You just didn't realize it yet.

>>8121

Ezri a weak bitch.

>>8121

Ezri a weak bitch.

>>7949

>>7947

>implying disparity where none exists

The Borg aren't slaves, they participate in a single consciousness that does exactly what it wants to do

>>8136

Did you even watch Voyager, or First Contact? Freed Borg often say that their will was not their own. This means they didn't feel like they were "participating" they felt like they were running borghivemind.exe. Hardware that is "unique" but software that is uniform. The Borg ARE slaves. Especially since the whole "Queen" nonsense from the aforementioned series and film which really cemented it. It's not like the crew of a cube holds a vote over whether or not to have a crew transfer, join a fleet or assimilate a world. It's literally dictated by the Queen. She says "Go assimilate those nerds" and then the collective does, she has enough to control to direct even a single cube.

The slavery is further evidenced by the vast majority of Borg, who do not want to be Borg. If 90% of a voluntary hivemind (which is the sort of structure you seem to be implying) wanted to stop being a hivemind, wouldn't it simply disband or disconnect all those who didn't want to be Borg?

I just don't see why you'd conclude that Borg are anything other than slaves to a misanthropic and horrific entity originally called "The Collective" and more recently called "The Queen".

>>7299 (OP)

Depends, actual collective Borg or hivemind-with-queen Borg? Actually doesn't matter, because either way it's Dominion

>>8121

Ezri was still in diapers when she got the Dax symbiont. Do you fuck children anon?

>>8498

>Ezri was still in diapers

Can't unsee that

>>8552

That would make such laws a nightmare for Trill, on one hand the symbiont is old enough, on the otherhand the host still needs to be potty trained.

>>8865

>Can't unsee that

>rule 34 invocation

Bake some Ezri >>>/abdl/ fresh OC?

>>8552

>does she have enough experience and knowledge to give informed consent?

I'm still pissed about how she got forcibly WORFED by writers, like you can't put this tiny trill in prison with this huge Klingon and expect there to be an honest consent there, it was coerced until she relented.

>>8869

>Bake some Ezri >>>/abdl/ fresh OC?

I would not be surprised if there was some already.

Speaking of the Borg and Dominion, the former benefited from an excellent score by Ron Jones, dark tones punctuated by appropriately synthetic choirs. I really have to wonder what he would do for the Dominion if he were kept for Deep Space Nine and allowed to do as he pleased. Maybe a blend of fluid-sounding Indian instruments with bombastic trumpets, their leitmotif starting slow and ponderous, then accelerating as the Dominion War starts.

>>7299 (OP)

>Would you rather be subjugated by the Dominion or be assimilated by the Borg?

Dominion. More freedom in Dominion than Fed despite the fact of their xenophobic attentions toward the solids.

It's Dominion.

>>9232

In the Dominion you can still drink dat sweet tula berry wine.

>>7396

>Borg Drones have more agency than Dominion species.

Lolwut?

Your mind becomes an insignificant part of a super-personal mind that controls your every action. You can no longer even think for yourself, you have no personality, no individual will, you are at best a cell in a larger organism.

After your species has been added to the Dominion, from what we can tell, you get the best possible life under a feudal system. You keep your own culture, you keep your own government, you don't even get conscripted for military service as they have the Jem'Hadar for that the Cardassian/Breen involvement with the Dominion war was severely abnormal and due to the bottleneck the wormhole/minefield caused.

The deal offered by the Dominion seems kind of relaxed - pay your taxes, don't cause trouble; in exchange you keep your own culture, your own government, your own laws. Granted you probably have a Vorta adviser placed into various levels of the state, but that's not going to affect the life of the average citizen. Shit, from the contact the Federation had with some of the Gamma Quadrant there are several species in the Dominion that are so far removed from the Founders that they think of them as legends and myths.

>You're cattle to them

Not the best analogy, the Founders started the Dominion as a way to remove the threat they believe solids pose to them by placing them under (indirect and distant) shapeshifter rule. So not so much cattle as dangerous animals that don't quite warrant genocide if they can be controlled. Not so much cattle as … wolves I guess?

>>9302

Is that what Vorta pussy tastes like?

>>7299 (OP)

Imagine being the Vorta tasked with changing Ezri's diaper?

Real question is Breen or Borg?

>>7302

Borg win. The Dominion has great size and industrial capability, but they lack flexibility and diversity of weapons systems.

A single Borg Cube can fight a Federation fleet for days, killing dozens while assimilating them, and the Borg have, at minimum, hundreds of Cubes. Most likely thousands of Cubes, Spheres, and various other vessels, with the additional capapbility of assimilating enemy vessels.

>>7304

> A single cube almost wiped the floor with the federation

Nah, it just required serious fleet redeployments. That being said, from what we saw, an additional Borg Cube would have been overkill, being too lethal for the concentrations of force brought against it, slaughtering ships faster than they could be brought to bare.

>>12520

>Nah, it just required serious fleet redeployments.

No, at Wolf 359 the feddies lost a fleet consisting of every single ship they could throw at an invading cube, a Klingon fleet as well if my memory serves.

>>12547

But that was like 39 ships. During the Dominion War Starfleet is thousands of ships.

>>7301

At least under the dominion I can still maintain my individuality and personal desires. Even my culture and civilization will be preserved to some extent. I don't really recall any specific issues, excluding the Cardies getting their cities nuked, of the Dominion being an unfair or oppressive ruling organization. Aside from the changelings being a bunch of hypocritical cunts who fuck with everything, how many races suffered under them before the Federation started another war in the name of peace?

>>7509

>Based Eddington

>He didn't do anything wrong

>He's the hero we need, but not the one we deserve right now.

>So we'll hunt him.

>Because he can take it.

>Because he's not a hero.

>He's the dark knight.

>*Soundtrack kicks in*

>>12548

Did you miss half of DS 9 or something?

Did you notice what sisko's job was before he was sent to DS 9? He was working in the shipyards building the new generation of warships built by the feddies in the wake of seing the best ships annihilated enmasse by a single cube.

Ships like the Yamato and Defiant where build in large numbers after Wolf 359 as the feddies began militarising like never before. Wolf 359 had much the same effect on the federation that 9/11 had on the US and the war on terror. It is what spurred the feddies on to build the large fleets the federation had when the dominion war broke out.

>>12565

>Wolf 359 had much the same effect on the federation that 9/11 had on the US and the war on terror.

So you're saying the Borg were funded by Section 31 to manufacture a Casus Belli for the Federation to start an unjust war in the Delta Quadrant so that they could preserve the Dilithium-Credit. Is that what you're saying?

>>12566

Dilithium can melt steel beams.

>>12566

Nah. I'm saying Q did it to prepare the federation for the dominion war.

>>12587

Was Q a Section 31 agent?

>>12589

I doubt it.

But Q introduced the Federation to the borg. >The borg followed them back to federation space.

>In the aftermath of Wolf 359 the Federation begins heavily arming themselves in preparation for a future war with the Borg.

>When the dominion shows up, the war for the Alpha and Beta quardrants turns into a long bloody slog when the now heavily armed Feddies lead the fight against the Dominion.

And what was it Q told Picard when he introduced them to the borg?

<there is shit out there that you can't handle

My theory is that Q's meddling is largely focused on helping the Feddies, preparing them for the challenges ahead and so on.

Just like at Encounter at Farpoint when Q was trying to subtly guide the crew to the truth about Farpoint Station.

If anything, Section 31 is possibly being helped along by subtle manipulation from Q.

>>12592

I always had a secret theory about Q and the Q in general. That they were actually humans, or at least were. They are a paradox, an evolution over billions of years and they are trying to shape the galaxy into being a better place

>>7544

>roving rapegangs.

>>That was just a cultural misunderstanding among rowdy youths.

Oh yeah, Tasha Yar's background of being Space Swedish.

>>12548

>>12547

Yeah, a few dozen ships vs thousands.

The morale loss was more devastating than anything else.

>>12565

Except not really. The Federation halfassed it and put those ships in mothball.

>>12592

And that was a Dominion with its hand tied behind its back.

>>12589

Probably not; but every S31 agent is expected to masturbate, regularly, to the idea of ever being able to wield as much 'just as planned' as Q could bring to bear without trying.

>>7299 (OP)

What's the bet the Dominion interrogation of Ezri involved a spanking?

>>12631

39 ships was a lot for the early TNG federation. Thats why they began building as many warships as they could, so by the dominion war they could field fleets of upwards of 600-700 ships in the big battles.

>>12642

Actually the Starfleet was a lot larger than that, approx 1,000 ships around TNG era and you can actually see that on the computers when they come up with ship lists. It was just heavily spread out. In fact it was implied that during TMP era it used to be even larger.

>>12636

It most certainly involved diapers

Dominion are always going to be better than the Borg. Founders really did nothing wrong to be honest.

>>8143

My theory is Hugh broke the real Borg and turned them into the movie/Voyager borg (save the one group that Lore got his hands on) because they were so broken they needed someone to control them or it would all fall apart.

>>8143

This not how hiveminds work though. You don't need to hold a vote, because you are one mind. Borg drones are your arms, legs and brain. That's why it also shouldn't be called "the Borg" but just "Borg" because we are dealing with one guy here. The queen also isn't its leader, she is the manifestation of its will, similar how Seven of Nine and Locutus were, as they functioned as speaker when the Borg decided they need to engage in diplomacy.

The real question is: Why is the Borg consciousness so fucking shitty and pissed all the time? Why doesn't it appreciate culture and wants to assimilate everything? Looks to me that there is some hardcoded stuff inside its consciousness, which comes down to the origin of Borg. However, why this can't be overwritten once the original Borg design was nothing more but a cell in a massive collective, is questionable.

>>12648

Makes sense. Despite US' infamous military-industrial complex, they still have only fraction of the bombers they had during WWII and (slightly bigger) fraction of fighters/attackers. Few dozen aircraft wouldn't have been that big of a deal then and certainly would be a big deal now.

Pre-Queen Borg.

>>7421

Changelings are a lot like jews in a way. Small minority that makes it its business to infiltrate other societies and force their governments to be subservient to them, and when someone objects their justification is "Oy vey you dumb solids, remember the 6 million liters."

>>22035

>oy vey we just want to be left alone

>that's why we conquered the entire quadrant

>>7301

There is this scene between Weyoun and Dukat, where the former advocates to eradicate the populations of entire planets. They also infected planets with a deadly virus for the lulz. Founder don't give a wet shit about you because you are a "solid".

At least with the Borg, you become part of something else. Something bigger, and in a strange way, you become immortal.

>>22040

the borg LITERALLY view you as a fucking computer chip.

>>7299 (OP)

>>7301

>They let people do what they wanted for the most part.

Tell that to the poor Cardassian children at those amusement parks in Lakarian City ;_;

never 4get

>>7396

>I get that living under Dominion would probably be more comfortable

Bull shit Borg life would be great, you have plenty of friends, an earnest sense of purpose, you're even guaranteed immortality in a sense

The Borg should have been the final boss of the trek universe, something so big it takes centuries to tackle, and capable of pushing the other races into worshiping them out of desperation. It is completely plausible than in the face of their superiority, entire planets would have willingly converted to the collective and possibly turned it into an even more insidious foe by losing the 'scary robots' aesthetic. Think federation ship with non invasive augmentation and shared consciousness.

Too bad they had to beat them with deus ex machinas, cheap individualism quotes and tommy guns.

>>22050

You people are insane. All the freed borg talk about how terrible it was, the only thing they ever say in favor of being slaved is that they feel lonely without constantly being deafened by voices in their head.

>>22056

There is no "willingly converting" as 'conversion' is essentially death. There is no worshiping the borg, there is no capitulating to the borg, there is just being consumed or not. Resistance is the only option, even if it is "futile". This isn't a "Well they might subjugate our nation, we may have to live as slaves for awhile, but my great great grandchildren might be able to somehow break free, maybe the empire will grow decadent." There is no empire. There can be no decadence or fall. If you "willingly convert" you just kill yourself and become drones. There is no "soft" borg. There is only borg. What you propose isn't even remotely plausible. There would have to be some insane changes to the borg, like sacrificing the entire meme of "utilitarian collectivism to the extreme".

>>22068

You can enjoy still be independent for a few hours during regeneration, remember that dreamworld they had in VOY?

C'mon m8 join the borg. Travel the universe, meet new species, and assimilate them.

>>22068

The Borg are the way you write them: if you corner yourself with assimilation=death, then obviously you can't develop them further. A collective cosciousness can be many things more than that, though.

>>22049

The Cardassians turned against them and caused them to lose the war by disabling their ability to coordinate with their fleet. I love Cardassia as much as the next person, but let's be real for doing that they had it coming. They Cardassians provoked the Dominion in this regard, whereas most nations under the Dominion who do not are left to their own devices.

The Borg are literally /r9k/ in space. It is their endgoal, their dream, their vision. It's hard to see why it wouldn't appeal.